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Author Topic: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !  (Read 278633 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2010, 03:14:50 AM »
Stefan,

Have they studied the contents of the gas through some sort of spectroscopy? Is it purely hydrogen and oxygen? I guess that would be the most favorable. But then, again, if the Faraday's law is obeyed I don't see how this can occur even if the electrolysis is carried out reversibly (at delta G, the Gibbs free energy, not to be confused with the free energy we're discussing here, that is, without overvoltage). What are they saying in the video about the volume of the produced gas? Does it correspond strictly to the expected according to Faraday's law -- they know the current for the duration of the experiment and when integrating it over time that will give the coulombs which have to correspond strictly to the volume of gas obtained (recall 22.4L of (ideal) gas at STP correspond to 1 mole)?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2010, 03:14:50 AM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2010, 03:34:29 AM »
More translations from Oliver´s postings:


The ignition, we had to operate with a small 220 Volts to 12 Volts AC/DC power adapter.
As the generator has a 12 Volts output also, we could use this and use
a 12 Volt battery as a buffer for the ignition circuit supply.


To run it, we had to start gas production in advance from the grid.

While I plugged in the lamps and the drill,
Valentin had to regulate the amount of air,
so that the engine was not throtteling nor dying.

At this point, it only makes limited sense,
to continue with this this clunker and cheapo motor-generator.

Everything we must now again do from scratch and repeat again using the correct materials
and a better motor-generator, so to replicate and improve it.

This Chinese power generator is probably at its best
only 15% efficient with its intended operation with normal carburetor and normal gasoline fuel,
so its efficiency just lacks..

But yes. It is a  "breakthrough" .
because so far nobody has yet demonstrated as far as I know
a motor-generator, that was loaded with its
maximum rating power of the  generator (1kW in this case).

The fact that we then could also supply the Anton cells so that
it got a selfrunning system
was just a crazy experiment,
and the result has surprised us even ourself very much
and obviously now motivated us very strongly to continue !


Beautiful Sunday to you all:)
Oliver

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2010, 03:49:21 AM »
I don't understand this:

Quote
It is a  "breakthrough" .
because so far nobody has yet demonstrated as far as I know
a motor-generator, that was loaded with its
maximum rating power of the  generator (1kW in this case).

What do they claim they have achieved?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2010, 03:49:21 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2010, 03:57:40 AM »
The last message from Oliver for today translated into proper english:

We just wanted finally to connect just a bigger load to the generator and see
what will come out of it.

And just to put the AC/DC power supply which powers the ANTON cells as the load onto the
generator was of course the most logical use.

But we were very suprised, that it worked so well and
now have even ourself to figure it out why this worked so well right away ..
 ;D

We even didn´t just wanted OU, but search for a better alternative energy method and efficiency..

There are some strange effects that we need to understand ourselves  first:

Sometimes the gas smells slightly of ammonia,
although no such chemical are in play.

We only fill up Anton only half  full with electrolyte
so that more dense water can be  decomposed.

The Bubbler is more cold than warm.

ANTON itself is only lukewarm.

Even after a very short operation "Anton" sucks 500ml water from the bubbler,
which, according to Darmstadt University of Technology can be a reason that it has
a high concentration of "nascent hydrogen" in it.

Probably we made something right by mistake or by the first time. !?
 ;D
So far we have only done that, what other people have talked about for years...


The ones who wants to a temperature measurements, please send us a thermal camera.

The ones who want to see the loud monster run for hours without to annoy the
other neighbors should bribe the landlord,
because we do it in a regular office with normal office neighbors
and they need to focus onto their work.

The neighbors are not interested in a water motor when the house rumbles.
 >:(

Frankly, we actually don´t care what computer users think
that never have held a screwdriver in their hands....
 ;D

Except for the last changes we have from the beginning documented everything here in the german overunity.de forum
and later also on YouTube.

Enough documented , so that others can follow.

We are even still amazed , that the engine runs indoors at all just with water and on HHO gas
and has no emissions other than hot air and a few dropplets of water.. !

It is all  open source and we need to move on and others
need to build up on it, so we hope that others will help us and
we will move on together.

So long, Oliver.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2010, 04:10:32 AM »
No, not clear at all. The last text doesn't make it clearer either. Also, they say it's an open source project bit actually it isn't. What is the construction of the electrolysis cell exactly? What exact stainless steel are the electrodes made from? How were they prepared. And, again, what is the exact claim? Using an electrolysis cell as a load of a generator or seeing a motor of this kind work on a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, if that's what's claimed, as it appears from the text, doesn't seem too much of an achievement. Something is missing. Too many question for someone to start replicating it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2010, 04:10:32 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #65 on: April 26, 2010, 04:50:58 AM »
I don't understand this:

What do they claim they have achieved?

Selfrunning as shown in the video !

The documentation is all scattered in different threads
at overunity.de and still needs to be translated into english.

It is mainly an open source  project by a few german overunity.de members,
mainly Oliver and Valentin.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2010, 05:50:47 AM »
Selfrunning as shown in the video !

The documentation is all scattered in different threads
at overunity.de and still needs to be translated into english.

It is mainly an open source  project by a few german overunity.de members,
mainly Oliver and Valentin.

Oh, I see. That's why these bits and pieces don't go together well somehow. Do they have any contiguous document explaining what they've done in a manner conducive to replication? This seems like something extremely interesting but the poor and scattered presentation serves it no justice and may ruin it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2010, 05:50:47 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2010, 06:04:21 AM »
As always when funding lacks and it is only run on a hobby budget
you spend more time making new devices and experiments
before you start to document all in a resonable manner...

Give them a few more days time after these exhausting days of experimentations
and hard work..

If you want to replicate, just get yourself an Anton HHO cell
or another one, that can generate 6 Liters per minute HHO gas
with around 800 to 900 Watts Electrical input energy
and then try to modify a motor-generator as they have shown
in the videos.
This is all pretty well documented in the videos already.
No problem to follow it or not to understand it...
It is very easily done, if you follow the videos.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2010, 06:13:48 AM »
Well, I don't think the videos reveal what an Anton cell really is. On the face of it certainly is trivial but there should be aspects which make it distinct from a common electrolysis cell, if the effect they claim is real. The electrochemical systems are very temperamental and mostly irreproducible so one has to really know what the conditions of the experiment are. When you say get yourself an Anton cell do you mean I can purchase it from somewhere? To manufacture one just by seeing it in the video is impossible if it's a non-trivial cell.

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2010, 06:13:48 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2010, 06:23:24 AM »
If you inspect the electrochemical literature you'll see that the researchers couldn't agree for decades on the values of, say, the hydrogen overpotential until the Frumkin school in Russia and that of John Bockris here in the US finally began to obtain reproducible results. Too bad the electrochemistry in the States is like an orphan (they aren't too welcome in the chemical society here so they formed their own electrochemical society). It's the future of chemistry but is too complicated and people prefer easier areas to work in, with less investment and labor (thinking) and more rewarding.

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2010, 06:24:38 AM »
I am still waiting for an  exact confirmation
from Oliver and Valentin, but it seems to be so...

He said it ran a little unstable and the motor accelerated too much,
so he had to shut it down after 40 seconds, cause he did not want to
blow his DC power supply.

The voltage output of the generator is not enough stabilized...

But it seems to be a elfrunning system only needing water.

Here is his latest message, before he went to bed:


http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=528.msg8593#msg8593

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,

The Google translation of your German link mentions that they smelled Ammonia!

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.de%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D528.msg8593%23msg8593&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Quote
Antw: ANTON provides an engine: First experiments
«Reply # 83 on: Today at 00:13:52»


There are some strange effects that we ourselves understand it first.
Sometimes the gas smells slightly of ammonia,
although no such chemical is in play.

They also mentioned they recirculated the exhaust gas back into the engine, along with adding the 6LPM HHO gases.  The exhaust gases have lots of NOx's to be converted to Ammonia NH3 and maybe even N2O nitrous oxide, used in racing cars to boost engine power.

Hoping to learn more on their design so we can recreate this discovery.

Keep up the good work!! 

Best regards, Mike R.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2010, 06:24:38 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2010, 06:29:19 AM »
Could it be that the smell is of ozone. I mentioned it earlier but they have to carry out kinetic studies to characterize the behavior of their electrodes at these current densities.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2010, 06:38:57 AM »
Stefan,

Will it be possible, after they take the so much needed break from their intense work, to invite these researchers here in this forum for a more in depth discussion?

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2010, 06:51:19 AM »
Hi Omnibus,
you can study for instance the board and postings over here:

http://www.overunity.de/index.php?board=106.0

for pictures and PDF files.

Surely it would help, if you could understand the German
text, but why not use Google translator...

Here is a picture of one plate from the Anton cell
from old tests ( abusing it.. with wrong electrolytes)

The problem with the Anton maker is, that they
don´t speak very well English and prefer to stay
on the German forum. So we need
some more people who help with the translations..

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2010, 07:06:17 AM »
Hi Omnibus,
you can study for instance the board and postings over here:

http://www.overunity.de/index.php?board=106.0

for pictures and PDF files.

Surely it would help, if you could understand the German
text, but why not use Google translator...

Here is a picture of one plate from the Anton cell
from old tests ( abusing it.. with wrong electrolytes)

The problem with the Anton maker is, that they
don´t speak very well English and prefer to stay
on the German forum. So we need
some more people who help with the translations..

Hi Stefan,

They mentioned the exhaust gas is recirculated back into the intake on the Google translator?  If so I did not see it their videos.  Is this correct?

Best regards, Mike R.

 

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