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Author Topic: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !  (Read 278632 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2010, 10:12:26 PM »
What is a Anton cell? What does it do and what is its configuration. Stephan you say they power them with the power supply... Wait a minute if the power supply is producing enough energy for the cell to produce 6 liters per min of HHO  this is all meaningless.
What is the voltage and amperage from the power supply. With enough amperage any amount of HHO can be produce to run anything. I am sure I am missing something here
so please all you good people out there please enlighten me.

Hi Bill,
the Anton cell is just a optimized electrolyser cell.

See:

http://anton-shop.com

but the sales form is not working properly in this moment
and they first to have order more new plates I was told today.

Also they are looking for some company to help
them with the distribution,
cause these 2 mens can´t do it all alone.

So it is basically 3 Anton cells working together to
produce arround 6 Liters of HHO gas per minute with about 800 to
900 Watts of electrical input power and the
motor -generator runs from the HHO gas mixed with air
and then the generator part of it produces around 1000 Watts,
so the 220 Volts to 36 Volts AC to DC power supply you see on the table
has enough juice to generate the power to make the electrolysis happen
in the Anton cells.

SO it is a selfrunning system only needing a bit of water from time to time.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2010, 10:12:26 PM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2010, 10:13:29 PM »
From the previous test, man! They were testing the device just a few minutes ago, with the 1000 watt load.

Tha HHO (whatever that is) that would be in the tubes from the previous test would have also required energy to have been produced. That isn't freely floating around just like that. So, you have spent energy to produce that purported HHO and you use it further to produce even more which would close the cycle. Let alone that if that's hydrogen, that cannot be contained in the tubes at all. The problems with hydrogen leakage are notorious. No, HHO in the tubes isn't the problem. The problem may be in, say, unaccounted for spending of anode (as any electrolytic cell would do) or some other chemical process supplying the additional energy which appears as excess energy. It has to be shown that the electrodes used are fully recoverable and don't change at all during the process.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2010, 10:14:29 PM »
Here are 2 more videos which
show exactly the modification of this
cheap chinese motor-generator to get it to
run on HHO-air mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy88V4CWgJ0

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=172BBu1NL0g

You need to see these 2 videos to really understand it all !

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2010, 10:14:29 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2010, 10:17:42 PM »
Tha HHO (whatever that is) that would be in the tubes from the prvious test would have also required energy to have been produced. That isn't freely floating around just like that. So, you have spent energy to produce that purported HHO and you use it furthyer to produce even more which would close the cycle. Let alone that if that's hydrogen, that cannot be contained in the tubes at all. The problems with hydrogen leakage are notorious. No, HHO in the tubes isn't the problem. The problem may be in, say, unaccounted for spending of anode (as any electrolytic cell would do) or some other chemical process supplying the additional energy which appears as excess energy. It has to be shown that the electrodes used are fully recoverable and don't change at all during the process.

Hi Omnibus,
the elctrodes are really stable, they don´t corrode...
I have visited Oliver last year and he has shown me a few examples..
Surely you need to use the right amount of KOH only and only
destilled water with it, so these stainless steel plates don´t corrode...

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2010, 10:18:39 PM »
Tha HHO (whatever that is) that would be in the tubes from the previous test would have also required energy to have been produced. That isn't freely floating around just like that. So, you have spent energy to produce that purported HHO and you use it further to produce even more which would close the cycle. Let alone that if that's hydrogen, that cannot be contained in the tubes at all. The problems with hydrogen leakage are notorious. No, HHO in the tubes isn't the problem. The problem may be in, say, unaccounted for spending of anode (as any electrolytic cell would do) or some other chemical process supplying the additional energy which appears as excess energy. It has to be shown that the electrodes used are fully recoverable and don't change at all during the process.

I'm just trying to assure that they weren't fooled by HHO previously in the system. There are other possibilities too. The inventors are bona fide, but the experiment could fool them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2010, 10:18:39 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2010, 10:26:24 PM »
Thanks for the videos. Unfortunately, they are in German (the first one) and I don't quite understand what the researcher is saying.

So, where is the fuel (or what they refer to as HHO-air mixture) coming when they first start the motor? Where is the Anton cell fed by the generator supposedly coupled with the motor?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2010, 10:28:57 PM »
KOH and distilled water are fine. However, I'd also ask what's Anton cell? And, again, where is the fuel coming from when they first start the motor?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2010, 10:28:57 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2010, 10:36:03 PM »
Quote
the elctrodes are really stable, they don´t corrode...

I suppose they have weighed the anodes before and after the experiment to confirm there's no weight change, correct?

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2010, 10:36:55 PM »
So, where is the fuel (or what they refer to as HHO-air mixture) coming when they first start the motor? Where is the Anton cell fed by the generator supposedly coupled with the motor?

I think that in the "self-running" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJOAqPYmkk

you can see the Anton cells at 0:28, at the left side of the table.

Exactly in the same place the cells were at the "1000 watt load" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaiyjV8OpC4

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2010, 10:36:55 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2010, 10:40:34 PM »
KOH and distilled water are fine. However, I'd also ask what's Anton cell? And, again, where is the fuel coming from when they first start the motor?

I have not asked him this , but they probably start with using the grid
to power the AC/DC power supply for the first few seconds
or using a bit butan gas into the air input hose to start it up.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 10:42:16 PM »
I think that in the "sel-running" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJOAqPYmkk

you can see the Anton cells at 0:28, at the left side of the table.

Exactly in the same place tha cells were at the "1000 watt load" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaiyjV8OpC4

Yeah, I saw that but it isn't revealing much. What exactly are they -- steel plates dipped in water solution of KOH and powered by pulse current, is that what these Anton cells are? Do these cells have membranes separating the anode from the cathode compartment or these are undivided cells? Is the pulse current changing polarity (thus alternating the cathodes and anodes) or just the amplitude? Not clear at all.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 10:42:16 PM »
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Offline Omega_0

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2010, 10:47:18 PM »

So it is basically 3 Anton cells working together to
produce arround 6 Liters of HHO gas per minute with about 800 to
900 Watts of electrical input power and the
motor -generator runs from the HHO gas mixed with air
and then the generator part of it produces around 1000 Watts,
so the 220 Volts to 36 Volts AC to DC power supply you see on the table
has enough juice to generate the power to make the electrolysis happen
in the Anton cells.

SO it is a selfrunning system only needing a bit of water from time to time.

Regards, Stefan.

Any detailed info on how these figures where arrived at ?
How these measurements were done ? (Measurement of input power consumption and output) The OU ratio is 1.1 so its not well outside error limits.

Anyway, congrats to these guys for great achievement. The work looks very neat and professional. I guess they are getting the OU prize ...

I think, if it self runs for even a minute, it will self run forever with proper engineering and reliable generator. The water from the exhaust and be recycled back into the cell, eliminating the need to add water.

The video needs to show the closed loop clearly. (And should have English subtitles, if possible). Can the shoot another one showing making and breaking of the loop and measuring equipment ?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2010, 10:49:34 PM »
I have not asked him this , but they probably start with using the grid
to power the AC/DC power supply for the first few seconds
or using a bit butan gas into the air input hose to start it up.

Regards, Stefan.

OK, so there's some initial energy supplied from an outside source. That's what @Rapadura was inferring. For now we'll consider that the amount of the initial energy is negligible and isn't the cause for the self-sustaining character of the device. What happens nex? I guess they switch from that outside source to the so-called HHO produced by the electrolysis cell (the so-called Anton cell). And now, again, what exactly is this cell -- stainless steel plates dipped in water solution of KOH and powered by pulse current? Is that what it is? What is the form of the current powering the cell? Is it at potentiostatic conditions or maybe galvanostatic? What do the I and V over the cell look like? These details are important if we are to understand what's going on.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2010, 10:51:07 PM »
Yeah, I saw that but it isn't revealing much. What exactly are they -- steel plates dipped in water solution of KOH and powered by pulse current, is that what these Anton cells are? Do these cells have membranes separating the anode from the cathode compartment or these are undivided cells? Is the pulse current changing polarity (thus alternating the cathodes and anodes) or just the amplitude? Not clear at all.

Just a normal DC electrolyser cell stack powered just by DC voltage !
The stainless plates are pretty near each other and they have very good seals.

So it is basically a dry cell simular to other HHO drycells.

But is has the largest surface of any commercial cell on the markeet today
and a good HHO gas collection exit.

So these 3 Anton cells you see on the video are powered by around 900 Watts
of DC power.
Around 36 Volts and 25 Amps.
( the digital display on the power supply is not displaying
it corretly due to the voltage changes of the generator)

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2010, 11:07:22 PM »
Omega_0,

Water expenditure won't bother me at all, it's still OU if it's self-sustaining. If this device is indeed self-sustaining I don't care what the power measurements are either.

So, if it's powered by DC current and these are very closely spaced stainless steel plates immersed in water solution of KOH there's nothing unusual about that so-called Anton cell -- can't be more trivial. The surface area isn't that impressive either because it cannot compete with the surface area of platinized Platinum electrodes, for instance. The high surface area of Pt/Pt electrodes, however, will ensure the current density to be low for the current supplied here and it would be a more ordinary electrochemistry. Here in this case we have, it seems, very high current density and that may get us into unstudied territory. First, the high current density may get us out of the passivation region of the stainless steel beyond the oxygen evolution, into the ozone and who knows what else. Hope it isn't in the active dissolution region (before the passivation area). This has to be studied thoroughly for that kind of stainless steel (wonder what exact stainless steel that is). The kinetics at the cathode is also interesting, especially if that's an undivided cell. These things are of only academic interest, of course, if the system is indeed self-sustaining and shows no signs of change of the electrodes and so on.

 

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