Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 892811
  • *Total Topics: 15669
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 7
  • *Total: 11

Author Topic: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH  (Read 60509 times)

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2010, 07:23:21 PM »
Doh !

I didn't have the lead pushed right in when i switched sockets :(


S O R R Y !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2010, 07:23:21 PM »

Offline Bruce_TPU

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1437
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2010, 01:03:58 AM »
OK, hope i'm doing this correctly.

Input : 12.56VDC @ 0.130A

Output (rectified) : 33.6VDC @ 0.125A

The output is going through a 10k pot, turned all the way up, in series with the analogue meter.

If i've done this correctly then :

Input : 1.6328W

Output : 4.2W

COP = 2.57

It's RPM is 12,000 !

I've been reading up on generator windings and have some ideas, will post when formulated and tested properly.


Gary.

Easy Deepcut,

Take a deep breath.  Again, you are comparing AC to DC.  This does not work for attempting to measure OU.  I have seen so many fooled by this over the years, I have lost count.  Duty cycle, etc.  Did you watch Tom's video?  Did you notice the LED's blinking?  That means the power is not "on" all of the time. 

Solution:  You MUST rectify the AC to DC using High speed switching diodes!  Place a resistor as a load at the out put, and THEN measure amps and volts, using ONLY an analog meter, that will not be fooled by a rotating magnetic field.

I say this to help you.  Also, consider what I wrote about the other coil at 90 degrees.  You guys are wasting space on both side (if vertical) for no reason.

Keep on...  ;)

Bruce

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2010, 01:15:03 AM »
Hi Bruce.

I'm not comparing AC to DC, i am rectifying - see 2nd and 3rd lines of my previous post.

*EDIT* But i know what you mean about duty-cycle, i saw that when i put a load on mine. *EDIT*

My bearings arrived this afternoon so am remounting the whole thing tomorrow, along with the extra coil :)

Reading these was interesting :

http://davidsonsales.com/docs_pdf/CoilPitch.pdf

http://www.bmcoi.com/CatLit/Power/TECHNICAL%20PAPERS/GEN.%20WINDING%20PITCH%20-%20LEKX3115.PDF


Gary.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2010, 01:15:03 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline FatBird

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1179
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2010, 01:33:42 AM »

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2010, 01:51:46 AM »
Don't thank me thank google ;+}

They are interesting aren't they ?

Especially in relation to a single-magnet rotor ...


Gary.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2010, 01:51:46 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Bruce_TPU

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1437
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2010, 02:58:00 AM »
Hi Bruce.

I'm not comparing AC to DC, i am rectifying - see 2nd and 3rd lines of my previous post.

*EDIT* But i know what you mean about duty-cycle, i saw that when i put a load on mine. *EDIT*

My bearings arrived this afternoon so am remounting the whole thing tomorrow, along with the extra coil :)

Reading these was interesting :

http://davidsonsales.com/docs_pdf/CoilPitch.pdf

http://www.bmcoi.com/CatLit/Power/TECHNICAL%20PAPERS/GEN.%20WINDING%20PITCH%20-%20LEKX3115.PDF


Gary.

Hi Gary,

I went back and looked and still can not find the post where you state that you rectify the output.

Also, the .125 ma, was that with the analog meter or DVM?  Are you sure it was not set to micro amps, if an analog meter? 

Thanks and keep on pluggin' away, it is how we learn,

Bruce

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2010, 12:48:21 PM »
Hi Bruce,

The post where i mention rectification is on here :

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9076.msg238384#msg238384

Both measurements taking using the analogue meter because i (stupidly) hadn't pushed the lead into my digi one correctly and thought that it couldn't read mA ...

And, yes, i know the difference between mili/micro/pico/nano ... ;+}

*EDIT Anyway, today i'm setting it up more properly because now i have my bearings, so all easurements will be taken again with the new setup, including the additional winding. *EDIT*


Gary.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2010, 12:48:21 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Bruce_TPU

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 1437
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2010, 02:22:19 PM »
Hi Bruce,

The post where i mention rectification is on here :

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9076.msg238384#msg238384

Both measurements taking using the analogue meter because i (stupidly) hadn't pushed the lead into my digi one correctly and thought that it couldn't read mA ...

And, yes, i know the difference between mili/micro/pico/nano ... ;+}

*EDIT Anyway, today i'm setting it up more properly because now i have my bearings, so all easurements will be taken again with the new setup, including the additional winding. *EDIT*


Gary.

Hi Gary,

Okay, I am feeling a little more optimistic.  The additional winding will for sure help, and hope that you use stranded pickup wire for it.

Did you build your own rectifier, or use a radio shack or equiv one?  The reason that I ask, is that the ready bought rectifiers do not switch very fast, and you may be better off making your own out of some inexpensive germaniums. 

What kind of non magnetic bearings did you get?

Thanks!

Cheers,

Bruce

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »
Hi Bruce,

I used this full-wave rectifier, the black square one with four legs in the picture :

http://maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=19088

My pickup coil is 0.28mm magnet wire, not stranded.

No bearings in the old setup we are discussin, axle mounted through holes in PV drainpipe so there is friction unfortunately.

But i now have these bearings :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002SRSUUU/ref=oss_product

They are actually open bearings unlike the picture, so i can lubricate them easily.

They are meant to be outside diameter 19mm, but i made a hole with my 19mm router bit and there is about 0.25mm of space :(

So i have mounted them in 19mm plastic waste pipe.

Bearings mounted on 6mm carbon-rod shaft.

The work isn't master craftmanship since i know as much about DIY as i do about electronics !

I will also order this PWM kit when it is back in stock, which can run on 9V batteries :

http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/47000-dc-pulse-width-k8004-velleman-kit.html

So stranded wire is more effective for induction ?

What gauge should the strands be etc ... ?

Here is a picture of the setup so far :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/GEM4.JPG

Thanks,

Gary

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2010, 06:00:32 PM »

There's still something wrong with the math. Do you have the 10K pot set to
10K ohm's or 0K ohms? And are you measuring the voltage and current at the same
time? E=I*R says that 33.6 volts at .125amps (not ma) is only about 268ohms
load. So these numbers are too far off for a 10Kohm load.  Note .125amps = 125.ma
.125ma = .00125amps. Your motor's numbers are really very good if true and
E and I are measured simultaneously.

If you could measure the voltage with DVM and current with the mechanical
meter simultaneously through a fixed 10Kohm load resister cc: brown black orange
and then again through a 4.7Kohm resister cc: yellow violet red. It might be helpful.
10K seems much too high to be the effective impedance of the output coils.
The calculated P should go *up* with the 4.7K ohms resister in my opinion.
Note if the rotor RPM changes with more load.

The other thing you could try if you have any kind of a toroid core handy is
wind a pulse transformer with 33 turns on the primary and 13 turns on the
secondary and see if you can get the 33.6 Vac pulses stepped down to
approximately 12.5 Vac then rectify it.  Current through the right resister
should then be .25amps Maybe with 26gauge wire. Use plastic insulated
hookup wire if you don't have lacquer coated wire. One may need a series resister
to keep the primary from shorting the output coils.  This would make your
output voltage close to your motors input voltage. hint,hint.  :)

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2010, 06:24:14 PM »
Hi Bruce,

I used this full-wave rectifier, the black square one with four legs in the picture :

http://maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=19088

My pickup coil is 0.28mm magnet wire, not stranded.

No bearings in the old setup we are discussin, axle mounted through holes in PV drainpipe so there is friction unfortunately.

But i now have these bearings :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002SRSUUU/ref=oss_product

They are actually open bearings unlike the picture, so i can lubricate them easily.

They are meant to be outside diameter 19mm, but i made a hole with my 19mm router bit and there is about 0.25mm of space :(

So i have mounted them in 19mm plastic waste pipe.

Bearings mounted on 6mm carbon-rod shaft.

The work isn't master craftmanship since i know as much about DIY as i do about electronics !

I will also order this PWM kit when it is back in stock, which can run on 9V batteries :

http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/47000-dc-pulse-width-k8004-velleman-kit.html

So stranded wire is more effective for induction ?

What gauge should the strands be etc ... ?

Here is a picture of the setup so far :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/GEM4.JPG

Thanks,

Gary

@Deepcut

#1
The diode bridge should be good to about 200Khz. But the main problem with pure
silicon diodes is the 0.6 Voltage pedastel or 1.2Volts for a diode bridge. In effect
that voltage is lost. It is not ineffciency because no current flows then. To
get around that build your bridge from Schottky or germainium diodes.

#2
Stranded wire is done for mechanical flexibility only and does not have any
electrical effects. Often they talk about Litz wire where strands are insulated from
each other so they are in parallel and this does have an effect. RF currents travel
in the surface of wires so Litz wire gives more surfaces for RF to travel in.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2010, 06:24:14 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2010, 07:56:17 PM »
...

If you could measure the voltage with DVM and current with the mechanical
meter simultaneously through a fixed 10Kohm load resister cc: brown black orange
and then again through a 4.7Kohm resister cc: yellow violet red. It might be helpful.
10K seems much too high to be the effective impedance of the output coils.
The calculated P should go *up* with the 4.7K ohms resister in my opinion.
Note if the rotor RPM changes with more load.

...

:S:MarkSCoffman

Thanks Mark.

I have the magnet assembly mounted, finally.

Since it is now on bearings i am going to do all tests again, beginning with simultaneous voltage/current measurement as you specified.

But first i have to wind a new coil (and eat some food !) so i should have the results of that first test by 9pm UK time (2 hours after this post).

Picture of magnet assembly is here :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/GEM4_2.JPG


Gary.




Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2010, 10:23:02 PM »
Had to scrap that one.

My crappy assembly was slowing bearings down because of the frame design ... ::SIGH::

No-one told me i'd have to learn woodwork, metalwork and mechanical engineering as well as electronics !!!  ;+}

Am mounting old coil on new, simple frame.

Will post soon as.


Gary.



Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2010, 11:37:25 PM »
Un-bloody-believable !

The bearings are FOUR TIMES SLOWER than having it rotate against the insides of a PVC pipe-section ...

That just amazes me.

I've googled a bit and the max RPM i could find of a ball-race bearing was 10,000.

Should have done my research first ... assume makes an ASS out of U and ME ;+}

I am now going to shut my mouth and try and get as close as possible to Tom's setup.

I'm having trouble finding the wire-spool he uses for pickup here in the UK, he called it 'cross-connect' wire.

Any UK people know what the equivalent is over here ?


Thanks,

Gary.

Offline DeepCut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2010, 01:46:17 AM »
I'm load-testing voltage only at the moment because i want to be sure i get it right.

In this picture the battery represents the coil output (but my coil output is rectified).

Are the connections in the right place ?

Because when i turn the pot up (clockwise) the voltage goes down but the magnet is unaffected.


Gary.

 

OneLink