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Author Topic: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH  (Read 60557 times)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #180 on: June 18, 2010, 09:42:14 PM »
FatChance, thanks for your help on the self-running.

The closest voltage-regulator i could buy is this one :

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/a/0s922lq6p7gwsc2hhzx6z4e3pl3y.pdf

I bought this rocker-switch (DPDT version) to switch between supplies :

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2365

Plus i got the right capacitors/resistors to provide a 9V output according to this formula :

Vout = 1.25V(1+(R2/R1))+IR2

I'm sitting down tonight to try and make the circuit.


Thanks,

Gary.


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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #180 on: June 18, 2010, 09:42:14 PM »

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #181 on: June 19, 2010, 12:00:21 AM »
OK the voltage-regulator circuit works and i had fun making it but ... no self-runner :( 

Not even with a 1000uF/35V cap.

The upshot is that you learn electronics whilst trying to achieve your goal i suppose.


Gary.

Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #182 on: June 19, 2010, 05:01:30 PM »
Apparent COP = 15.0144/0.6678 = 22.48 !
This was your initial report on calculated COP. Seemed very nice.
It's really hard to make measurement errors giving a COP of 22.

OK the voltage-regulator circuit works and i had fun making it but ... no self-runner :( 
Not even with a 1000uF/35V cap.
And there is no self runner, even though you seemed to have COP 22.  :o

My only question is: Where did you miss out in your wattage measurements? ???

If the difference between input/output is COP 22 then I really want to know
how you performed your measurements in detail?
You must have measured something 22 times wrong, to small or to big. How's it possible?
Can you please take new measurements by the assist of someone else qualified in the field?

I hope you still have the energy and goal for overunity research. Good going!!!

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #182 on: June 19, 2010, 05:01:30 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #183 on: June 19, 2010, 05:43:20 PM »
Thanks FC.

You may have missed a few posts, MScoffman explained why the COP was not 22 a few posts back because, although i was using Ohm's Law, ie; the resitance of the coil, to calculate the current, apparently the resistance of the coil measured in it's AC domain is not the same once it has been rectified to DC because of Inductive Reactance. So there's the error !

I'm now thinking perhaps transforming the DC output so the voltage drops but the current rises might do it but i have to check the numbers.


Gary.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #184 on: June 19, 2010, 08:36:56 PM »
@deepcut;

This is your engineering conscience speaking...
 "Keeping you on the straight and narrow and away
 from unnecessary developments in anti-grav." :D

---

Don't give up...The series regulator does an admirable job...except
that it is not efficient. It acts like an intelligent resistor, it produces
the correct voltage on the output by throwing away input power.
And another bad thing it dissipates that power in itself, so it requires
a worst case heat sink to work correctly. For example. Regulator in is
10volts in at 10ma = 100mW you throw away 50mW as heat, so you
have 5Volts at 10ma = 50mW. Note that the current is always nearly
the same for both input and output. That's how a series regulator is
supposed to work. Simple, low parts count, inexpensive and not efficient.

---

There are three ways to build a power conserving voltage converter.
Especially if you ve any kind of toroid capability. Any old toroid core
should work and you can wind this with plastic insulated hookup wire.

1) Use your voltage regulator to build a (boost) bucking voltage
converter by using a toroid as the inductor. This circuit is described
in the Application note Document for the series voltage regulator
you are using.

or

2) Use your toroid as a pulse AC transformer. Try 12 turn winding on primary
and 6 on the secondary. The primary connects to the motor coil output.
Have some extra lead length so you can adjust the number of turns from
instrument readings under load. These turns counts are on the low side,
so the transformer inductance will be on the low side, but it will demo
things so you can adjust correctly.

or

3) Switch a capacitor between the DC output and another
capacitor approximately twice that size on the input. The motor
itself should be capable of supplying you the "clock" signal to do
this. Adjust the capacitors.

---

You may be chasing your tail: Ie. getting closer and closer to unity
gain, but these circuits are not that complex, so you should not
be wasting your time. You should be able out read out the efficiency
now and then.

:MarkSCoffman
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 09:01:33 PM by mscoffman »

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #184 on: June 19, 2010, 08:36:56 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #185 on: June 20, 2010, 03:46:02 AM »
Thanks Mark.

I think i'll try the transformer route first. May as well do something while i'm waiting for neon-sign transformers and true sine-wave inverters !


Gary.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #186 on: June 27, 2010, 11:40:55 PM »
OK, my first try at transforming the output and i'm having problems.

When Mark says the primary winding is connected to the motor coil output i am assuming this is the non-rectified output, as it's an AC pulse transformer.

But once i connect the primary winding to the motor coil output i am creating a short-circuit so the magnet stops rotating ?

I put a diode between one motor-coil/primary-winding connection but the magnet still won't spin.

How is this short-circuit problem gotten around ?


Thanks,

Gary.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #186 on: June 27, 2010, 11:40:55 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2010, 06:41:28 PM »
OK it was just bad contacts !

I have 12 turns on primary and 6 on secondary but voltage isn't lowering.

Will play with it some more tonight.


Gary.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »
OK it was just bad contacts !

I have 12 turns on primary and 6 on secondary but voltage isn't lowering.

Will play with it some more tonight.


Gary.

@Gary

You need to load the transformer secondary down. Like it
would be if it was feeding the motor's input...Without a load
the transformer windings look like a capacitor from primary
to secondary and high frequency pulse pass right through this
cap. As you load things the primary and secondary should start
to have different voltages.!?  You can always take winding off the
secondary...but wait till you can load things down some. AC
RMS scale is not the best scale for pulses. A scope or a DC
bridge before a DC DVM is a better choice. As you can see the
transformer windings can be used to adjust around impedance matching
problems - (hopefully) with some degree of energy efficiency.

If you continue to use the series voltage regulator (which I don't
recommend) you need output voltage +3VDC as input or it will begin
to not regulate properly...I'd wait on this till you get some OU.

:S:MarkSCoffman

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #189 on: June 29, 2010, 12:10:37 AM »
Thanks Mark.

I ended up watching two brilliant films tonight so didn't continue.

I'll do it with a load tomorrow and no regulator.


Thanks,

Gary.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #190 on: June 29, 2010, 05:01:53 PM »
Did a little experiment today.

With induction, the flux path crossing the coil wire at 90 deg gives maximum induction.

Looking at how Tom's device is setup, nearly fifty percent of the wire is around the ends of the magnet, where i assume there is  lot less flux crossing the wire and therefore wasted wire/electricity.

Here's a pic where i've outlined what i think are areas of waste :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wastedwire.bmp

So i thought, if i wind wire around a circular strip that is the same width as the magnet then ALL of the wire gets a full flux effect and therefore more energy output. Another edded benefit would be that, because the strip's width is small compared to the circumference of the coil-former in the above setup then you get more turns for a given length of wire therefore more induction.

Here's a picture of the new winding/magnet assembly :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tightwind.bmp

So, having made the new assembly and unwound/rewound some wire (3.5 hours !) i hooked it up to the multimeter and ran it.

I got 0.032 VDC :( :( :(

What's wrong with my theory, it sounded good in my head !


Thanks,

Gary.






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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #190 on: June 29, 2010, 05:01:53 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #191 on: December 03, 2010, 03:42:56 AM »
Well...it's an old thread, but you brought it up in another thread...so...did you ever figure it out?

The links to the images appear to be dead, but from your words I think you are thinking correctly...but your coil seems to be behaving more like a "CEMF cancelling" or noninductive or "bifilar hairpin" wound coil....are your windings strictly in the same direction, or did you reverse direction halfway through?

That's just my guess, if you have indeed designed the magnetic circuit properly. The point is to get the maximum _rate of change_ of the perpendicular component ... E=-d(phi)/dt. Has your new geometry somehow reduced the rate at which the field changes across the conductors, even though you have improved the magnetic coupling?
Just another wild guess.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #192 on: December 03, 2010, 05:02:31 AM »
Maybe it has reduced the change rate because the flux is always moving through the coil i dunno, but the magnetic poles are alternating coz it's diametric so ...

i upped a new pic, i no longer have the frame but you can see the concept :

http://qvision.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tightwind.jpg


Gary.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #193 on: December 03, 2010, 07:53:53 AM »
The magnet is the shiny thing inside the white cylinder, and the dark stick is its axle, about which it rotates? (a rosewood chopstick?)
I can't quite tell from the picture, but if the magnet is polled on the ends, facing towards and away from the viewer, then that's the problem: you are rotating the magnet around its axis, so the flux in the coil core isn't changing, no matter how fast you rotate the magnet. You should turn the magnet 90 degrees to the axle, so the core piece is swept first by the N pole and then by the S pole as the magnet is spun. Then the flux in the core will be changing at the maximum rate and the voltage should go up. Even better would be to bend the core around further into a good "C" and have the magnet spinning in the gap, bringing its poles alternately near each of the ends of the "C".

Offline DeepCut

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Re: GENERATOR- YOU DO THE IN/OUT POWER MATH
« Reply #194 on: December 03, 2010, 01:02:55 PM »
I said in the post the magnet is diametrically magnetised, along the length of the cylinder.

So my thinking was that if the wire is wrapped around a rectangular strip and that strip was then bent around the path of the magnet, you would be maximising the induction.

I think the wire i used was too thick and there were not enough turns on there, i may take another look at that sometime.

*EDIT ADD*

Ye the magnet is the shiny thing inside the white plumbers pipe section. The axle is made from carbon rod.

*/EDIT ADD*


Gary.

 

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