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Author Topic: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...  (Read 10279 times)

Offline DeepCut

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Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« on: April 15, 2010, 01:54:01 PM »
Finally figured it ! God i'm  S  L  O  W ... picture attached.

It's basically the Bedini circuit with the charging battery removed.

Neon bulb there to protect transistor.

Hope this helps anyone else who is sick of reed-switches burning out :)


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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 01:58:24 PM »
Anybody try it with a pulse generator instead? 

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 02:05:03 PM »
Wouldn't a pulse generator need a seperate power supply ? Also, wouldn't you have to use a transistor in addition to the pulse-generator, like you have to use a transistor in addition to a Hall Effect sensor which also needs a few volts supplied to it ?

Using the transistor meanas less total power consumption i think.

But i'm an electronics baby so please correct me if i'm wrong :)

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 02:05:03 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 02:20:30 PM »
The problem with the ordinary pulse generators is that they supply too low a current to saturate the core. The ones with high current output are prohibitively expensive. Otherwise, the pulse generator supplies the needed form of the signals with no additional elements. Using a pulse generator with a DSO and a proper processing of the data is what is needed to understand whether or not these motors are OU. The only correct methodology I've seen so far in assessing the OU is by Steorn. They need to drive the motor with a pulse generator, though, for some additional measurements to make their conclusions definitive. No need for calorimetry. Just some more electrical measurements in additions to what they've done, using a pulse generator, to finalize their findings of OU. Everyone else trying to reproduce the OU property of these motors (including all Adams and Bedini fans) should necessarily do these careful measurements as well. Just seeing that motor spins or trying to charge batteries isn't enough, unless a self-sustaining run of the motor is demonstrated.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:23:54 PM »
I think, as far as the Bedini SSG goes, something is definitely OU.

They include the power used to run the 'charger' in the excel spreadsheet used to calculate overall COP at the monopole3 group.

Typical results seem to be a COP of about 1.3.

I have built my first SSG and am doing first test runs on batteries this weekend, will report back.

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:23:54 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 02:33:41 PM »
Anybody who studies Bedini motor should do their power measurements the way Steorn do it. I haven't seen anything close to that level of study so far. Shining lamps and charging batteries, let alone using average or efficient voltages and currents don't cut the mustard as far as OU is concerned.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 02:50:00 PM »
That's true i suppose the figures may be kind of muddy unless there's a huge OU difference, what with chemicals etc ...

I hadn't thought of it like that before, thx:)

Do you have a handy link to the Steorn method ?

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 02:50:00 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 03:21:43 PM »
I think they took down their youtube vid with the demo. In essence what they do is use an integrating scope which multiplies the momentary values of I and V and subtracts the momentary Ohmic heating value I^2R. Then the results of this arithmetic are integrated over time and displayed directly on the scope screen. That's for the input energy. For the output energy they use a pickup coil, short circuited, and there they measure the momentary Ipc^2Rpc, where Ipc and Rpc are the pickup coil values of the current and resistance. Then, again, this is integrated over time and displayed directly on the screen of the scope. In this way they are able to demonstrate at once that the slope of the output curve is three times the slope of the input curve, that is, that the output power is three times the effective input power. Wish you or anybody playing with these motors could do that measurement on your rig, hopefully powering it with a pulse generator. That's a start. As I said, there should be some additional measurement carried out as well.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 05:02:59 PM »
OK thanks for that Omni, when i get my scope i'll attempt to replicate that measurement method.

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 05:02:59 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 05:06:18 PM »
One more thing, is a pulse generator the same as a frequency generator ? Can they do/are they the same thing ?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 06:21:40 PM »
One more thing, is a pulse generator the same as a frequency generator ? Can they do/are they the same thing ?

Yeah, that's basically the same thing. Also, please see the Steorn demonstration I was telling you about. It isn't explained well during the presentation it seems but the principle of measurement is as I mentioned it earlier: http://www.youtube.com/steornofficial#p/u/1/7wIjNJH0Cpw

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 06:21:40 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 08:06:54 PM »
Thanks Omni, watching it now :)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Using an NPN transistor instead of a reed-switch ...
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 11:50:27 AM »
Thanks again Omni.

Excellent video, learnt a lot there, and from naudin's steorn-related experiments and document links - magnetic viscosity.

Nice that it all stemmed from an observed anomaly !

My function generator kit should arrive tuesday :

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Media/PDFs/N42FL.pdf

Looks to be low-current but i can change that with some circuitry.

Just realised there is no duty-cycle control on this kit :(

May cancel order as duty-cycle is a must, surely ?







« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 12:12:40 PM by DeepCut »

 

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