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Author Topic: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!  (Read 46788 times)

Offline derricka

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2010, 02:42:02 AM »
An important point that many are missing here, is that magnets inside an external magnetic field don't necessarily move towards (or away) from that field, however, they will align. Place a magnet on a floating piece of wood, and it will only turn to align with the Earth's field, it will not be drawn to the Earth's north or south pole. For a magnet to move inside a field, it must subjected to a GRADIENT (change in field strength).  Closing the loop on a SMOT yields a net gradient of ZERO. Claiming a SMOT works is like saying "Look I can ski downhill without doing any work" Sure you can, but forgot to mention that you had to climb the hill first. For a magnetic field, entering the "sticky spot" is that uphill climb. Anyone can ride downhill for free, but the real trick is to ride uphill for free.

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2010, 02:42:02 AM »

Offline billmehess

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2010, 02:59:22 AM »
Here's an interesting thought on this subject. We talk about closing the loop in such that the
roller returns to it's start point and reenters the array. What if it could generate enough stored energy in a cap. bank due to a long roll to in effect be simply pushed back through the array. If it can run continously for a long time then it should be able to generate and store sufficient energy to be able to do this in other words when it reaches some point
it simply bounces back in to the array to return to it's beginning and the whole process is repeated over and over.

Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2010, 04:36:41 AM »
Closing the loop on a SMOT yields a net gradient of ZERO. Claiming a SMOT works is like saying "Look I can ski downhill without doing any work"

It's a pity that you skeptics this time can not use the old argument of comparing a SMOT with a "cliff" or "going down in a mountain" one more time...

You can't do that, because this is not a SMOT, it's Halbach array.

And the video is sufficient proof of the fact that the roller can overcome the gate of the second array just with the speed it gained from the first array, and both arrays are equal.

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2010, 04:36:41 AM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2010, 04:58:41 AM »
it simply bounces back in to the array to return to it's beginning and the whole process is repeated over and over.

I was thinking of use two "tracks" of arrays, side by side, but you remembered them: the same array can be used in both directions!

Just use the piezos to charge the capacitors bank, and then use the energy in the capacitors bank to put the roller in a position that makes it travel in the inverse direction, through the same track of arrays!

Offline Omnibus

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2010, 05:15:36 AM »
An important point that many are missing here, is that magnets inside an external magnetic field don't necessarily move towards (or away) from that field, however, they will align. Place a magnet on a floating piece of wood, and it will only turn to align with the Earth's field, it will not be drawn to the Earth's north or south pole. For a magnet to move inside a field, it must subjected to a GRADIENT (change in field strength).  Closing the loop on a SMOT yields a net gradient of ZERO. Claiming a SMOT works is like saying "Look I can ski downhill without doing any work" Sure you can, but forgot to mention that you had to climb the hill first. For a magnetic field, entering the "sticky spot" is that uphill climb. Anyone can ride downhill for free, but the real trick is to ride uphill for free.

No, your understanding of how SMOT works is incorrect. I don't want to get into this here, however. There's a lot written already on the subject.

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2010, 05:15:36 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2010, 05:18:49 AM »
It's a pity that you skeptics this time can not use the old argument of comparing a SMOT with a "cliff" or "going down in a mountain" one more time...

You can't do that, because this is not a SMOT, it's Halbach array.

And the video is sufficient proof of the fact that the roller can overcome the gate of the second array just with the speed it gained from the first array, and both arrays are equal.

Yes, you can. You can can use the analogy of  going down the hill in this case as well. On the other hand, the reason why this is indeed OU is more complicated but I don't want to get into this here, as I already mentioned. Enough has been said about that in several extensive strings here in this forum and elsewhere. That isn't an issue any more.

Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2010, 02:06:47 AM »
Just asking:

Since the array can be used in both directions (as we can see on Clanzer's videos), what happens if we block the end of the array with a piece of wood, preventing the roller from exiting the array, and forcing it to stop in the exact point where it should start the movement in the inverse direction? Would it start the movement in the inverse direction?  Or need the roller be rotated 180 degrees, swapping the positions of the two balls in its ends?

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2010, 02:06:47 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2010, 05:55:39 AM »
Just asking:

Since the array can be used in both directions (as we can see on Clanzer's videos), what happens if we block the end of the array with a piece of wood, preventing the roller from exiting the array, and forcing it to stop in the exact point where it should start the movement in the inverse direction? Would it start the movement in the inverse direction?  Or need the roller be rotated 180 degrees, swapping the positions of the two balls in its ends?

The roller will need to be rotated 180o.

GB

Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2010, 01:22:35 PM »
So... Time to replicate it.

Now that I have a plan, I'll start buying my neo magnets. This week I will order at least 40 cubic magnets, enough to build 8 Halbach arrays, that can be arranged in 4 sets of two. Let's see if the roller can travel through 4 sets...

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2010, 01:22:35 PM »
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Offline billmehess

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2010, 02:19:19 AM »
How about a quick explanation on the difference between a Halbach array and a smot being employed in this device.
Also why does the roller have to be rotated 180 deg.?

Offline gravityblock

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2010, 08:06:47 AM »
Also why does the roller have to be rotated 180 deg.?

Because the field from the Halbach and roller are still pointing in the same direction, thus the force will be in the same direction.  You either need to reverse the direction of the field on the Halbach, or need to reverse the direction of the field on the roller, which is rotating it 180 o.  If you pay attention to ClanZer's videos, then you will notice he rotates the roller in order for it to go in the other direction.

Here's two videos demonstrating this principal, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvScSTbly1c  and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-kQans2rww  Notice how the direction of force on the roller is according to the polarity of the current (reversing the field of the horseshoe magnet will also change the direction of force on the roller).  Reversing the polarity of the current is the same as rotating the roller 180o (the roller stick has a magnet in it, which magnetizes the steel balls in a particular direction).

[Edit:]  The second video is using the concept of a homopolar motor, but the basic principal remains the same.

GB
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 08:43:13 AM by gravityblock »

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2010, 08:06:47 AM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2010, 01:39:40 PM »
So, it's just a matter of distance before the energy generated by the piezo film under the rolling surface can be enough to power an electro-mechanical arm that takes the roller at the end of the last pair of Halbach arrays, rotates the roller 180 degrees, and put it ar the right position to start rolling in the inverse direction, towards the beggining of the track, where there is another electro-mechanical arm.

Of course I'm assuming that the roller can travel through not only 2 or 3 pairs of Halbach arrays, but through 700 or 800 pairs.

I'll start trying with 4 pairs.

I have started the process of buying my cubic magnets (I found a seller), but don't paid for it yet. I hope 10 days from now I will have my 40 cubic magnets in my house.

Offline billmehess

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2010, 08:57:50 PM »
Thank you for the explanation. I think this is really worth pursuing. I can buy 1000 1/4" neo 45 cubes for $133.00 from CMS Magnetics. I am going to place the order and build an array as long as possible. With this number of magnets I should also be able to construct a circular or oval tract. It should be fun, anyway I love this stuff!

Offline Cherryman

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2010, 09:14:42 PM »

Offline Rapadura

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Re: CLaNZeR can achieve overunity!
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2010, 09:52:53 PM »
Thank you for the explanation. I think this is really worth pursuing. I can buy 1000 1/4" neo 45 cubes for $133.00 from CMS Magnetics. I am going to place the order and build an array as long as possible. With this number of magnets I should also be able to construct a circular or oval tract. It should be fun, anyway I love this stuff!

Things in Brasil are more expensive: I'm ordering just 40 neo cubes and 12 neo spheres for R$ 120 (120 Reais), what is the equivalent to US$ 65 or 70.

I notice you said you want to  "build an array as long as possible". My guess is that we should not build only one long array, the key is to build several Halbach arrays with only 5 cubes each (that is the minimum number of cubes to build a Halbach array).

The key is to place each pair of Halbach arrays a few centimeters distant from the previous pair, as Clanzer did in the video. It will be sucessfull if the speed gained by the roller inside the first pair of Halbach arrays is enough to overcome the gate (entrance sticky spot) of the second pair of Halbach arrays.

Let's try it!

 

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