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Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 78869 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #465 on: February 15, 2020, 07:53:17 PM »
Floor I  quickly cobbled together your twist drive and got 11 units (1 washer) of work in to start the twisting/lifting giving 24 units of work out (2 washers) which gives 218% OU. Remember my work here is quick and dirty and between all of my nursing duties to my wife who has cancer but is progressing.
1. I used 2 stacks of RadioShack magnets with the hole in the center.
2. In the back of the photo are the 2 washers lifted.
3. To the right is the 1 washer that drops and activates the twisting/lifting work out.
4. I used a stainless steel bicycle spoke to make a crankshaft quick and dirty to rigidly hold the twisted magnet.
5. the box on the right limits the drop of the arm and washer at the point that max twist/lift is achieved.

I discovered that its best to start with the twisted magnet below level to get max twist/output because if it gets too high it will be stuck there. I don't think this is as well tuned as Floor's because if the magnets get closer than 1/8 in. they stick together so I put a spacer in between them as a stop. I think  I can tune this a little more but have limited time for that.

The the first photo is twisted/lifted up and you can see the 2 lifted washers in the back . And you can see the crankshaft that allows the twisting magnet to rotate. The second photo shows the 2 washers down and the untwisted magnet.
The magnet to the left that has the hole is pulled to the right  by the dropping single washer  twisting/lifting the 2 washers in the back. In the second photo you can see the magnet is tilted down. In the first photo that twisted/lifted magnet is tilted up in the back and you can see the 2 lifted washers in the back.

In summary as the magnet on the left moves right it twists the magnet on the right lifting the 2 washers hooked behind to the crankshaft.


Thank you so much Floor for all of your diligence and for sharing this with all of us. This makes me very excited. I can taste a self running machine in  my mouth.

Norman

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #465 on: February 15, 2020, 07:53:17 PM »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #466 on: February 16, 2020, 02:14:05 AM »
I cobbled together another Floor twist drive device and it measures 533% OU. That surely is enough extra to repeat the process and handle the losses in the switching.

details
The activating weight is a small washer 1/4 oz. and it moves up and down 6/8 in.

The lifted weight is 2 1/2 oz. washers that are lifted 8/8 in. So the activating units are .25 x 6 = 1.5 units in
 and the lifted units are 8/8 in. up x 2 washers x  .5 oz. washers giving 8 units out. giving 533% OU.  But for margin of error purposes I will count on 300% which is plenty.

And in this embodiment I used a stack of 4 RadioShack magnets that move to twist a stack of 2 of the same magnets. Since the mag field is much stronger with the extra magnets I did not let the magnets get closer than 3/16 in. to reduce the attraction when twisted causing more work to reset for another cycle.

So to make this self run with human switching replace 1 of the .5  oz washers with 2 1/4 oz washers and humanly place the lifted 14/ oz washers where they are needed to activate the twisting/lifting.

And to make it self run we need a good watchmaker of which I am not... But I'll try.

Floor you really have a winner.


Norman
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 01:46:22 PM by norman6538 »

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #467 on: February 16, 2020, 11:10:38 AM »

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #467 on: February 16, 2020, 11:10:38 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #468 on: February 16, 2020, 01:44:19 PM »
https://youtu.be/4LgEvwpmuwM
Is it right?
  Many of these magnetic tracks abound but it takes a push to get it started before the magnetic track and therefore it will not jump from one track to another. He claims it goes up hill and that is good if it can be replicated by others.

Floor has the best thing going for now as far as I know but keep it simple like I did. Floor wanted to get good measurements and that he did very well.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #469 on: February 17, 2020, 03:04:42 AM »
https://youtu.be/4LgEvwpmuwM
Is it right?

!. Yes You can get them to go up hill.
2. Yes you can get them to release at the end, but only because they fall from the table
or at least lower than the starting height.
3. I don't know exactly how those magets are arranged, but he started of by saying
they are repelled at the start end the ramp.
4. He didn't sat it would self loop, and he knows it will not.

   best wishes
          floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #469 on: February 17, 2020, 03:04:42 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #470 on: February 17, 2020, 03:11:04 AM »
                              CHALLANGE
In the method which I demonstrate, the output (by falling) work  is undone during each cycle, but, the input (by lifting) work is also undone during each cycle.  The output "work" is more than twice the input "work".

The operation you present, must be indefinitely cyclically repeatable. The use of levers and springs is permissible.  In short, demonstrate the cyclical lifting of a greater weight upon the long side of a lever by using a lesser weight upon the short side of that same lever or...... some other mechanically equivalent device which uses mechanical springs.

Mechanical output must exceed mechanical input in each cycle, even if that mechanical output may be undone during each cycle (sums to zero). A mechanical spring or springs may be used in the device.  Remember however, the input mechanical "work" in each cycle, must always be less that the output mechanical "work" during that cycle.

            Meet or exceed the below, or at least exceed 1 to 1.
Cause 115 grams to be lifted 40 units of distance against gravity, by the lowering lowering of 100.75 grams 22 units of distance by gravity.
          In the exemplary demonstration I provide.......
The force ratio is 100.75 grams input to 115 grams output.
The mechanical displacement ratio is 22 units input to 40 units output.
                        The work in to work out ratio is....
      100.75g x 22 = 2216.5 input.   115g x 40 = 4600 output.
As I said (in my exemplary device), the work done both as the lifting and the falling is undone in each cycle.

And what else ?

During the the lifting of the sliding unit weight, 101 grams of finger force, is only required at the initial point of lifting (while the sliding unit scale dial reads 22 degrees and the rotating scale dial reads 40 degrees).  The force that needs to be applied to cause the lifting of the sliding unit weight drops to ZERO GRAMS, once the rotating magnet is 90 degrees off from the sliding magnet and the sliding magnet is at zero distance from the rotating magnet. 

It requires no force (no weight upon the sliding unit pulley) to hold the 115 grams weight when the rotating magnet weight object is at its full height (zero degrees on the rotating scale dial), while the sliding magnet is at its nearest proximity to the rotating magnet (zero degrees upon the sliding unit scale dial).  Actually, it requires LESS THAN ZERO GRAMS of force (as the sliding unit weight), because there is a slight attraction of the sliding magnet to the rotating magnet along the line of its travel (at very near distance) and when at 90 degrees to the rotating magnet.

also......

The sliding unit input finger force curve (from 101 grams to 0 grams) results in an average applied finger force, in lifting the sliding unit weight during the course of the sliding magnet's travel away from the rotating magnet which, I estimate as between 70 and 80 grams average applied finger force over the 22 degrees of sliding magnet travel (curve based on 5, 20 gram weight decrease increments over the 22 degree travel).

This is at most, 80 x 22 = 1760 to the rotating magnet's 4600.   
2.6136...  x 1700 = 4600
4600 - 1700 =  2900

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #471 on: February 17, 2020, 03:30:17 AM »
Hey Norman

I think you might be correct, in that before the full cycle is done
the work is about 5 to 1 or 500%.
....   .....  ..... .....
I have a VCR spindle and rotor that I have been contemplateing using
as a spindle for a replication of your pendulum deign. But the more i think about it
the more it seem that that design will sum to zero.  Although If well built, It might coast for a deceptively / tantalizingly long time.  But then again, one doesn't know some times till one tries.

  best wishes
       floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #471 on: February 17, 2020, 03:30:17 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #472 on: February 17, 2020, 07:05:09 AM »
https://youtu.be/4LgEvwpmuwM
Is it right?

No. There is only one way to show overunity in such case without measurement. It is when there is no initial force to the magnet, and it is brought to the field by speed. If the speed is then increased after leaving the field, then there is a gain of energy. And on an even surface, making the surface uneven only makes calculations more complicated, and shouldn't be done at all if we want to do it without calculations.

In that case, the magnet was released when it had a force to it, somewhat further from the beginning of the magnets chain. Thus the condition of no initial force was not satisfied.

A chain of magnets against each other pole to pole, should make one long magnet, when all magnets are oriented in the direction of the chain. Then the moving magnet also accelerates when moving towards the end of the chain, but decelerates after reaching the end of the chain. Or when the magnets are at a greater distance from each other, then all propulsion comes from the first magnet of the chain, in the field of which the moving magnet was initially put.

Not certain whether the chain of magnets was such, different strength of magnets and their different orientation in some configuration may cause different effects, then also overunity may be possible. But this doesn't matter, as the experiment was not correctly done, and was not valid.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 09:46:34 AM by ayeaye »

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #473 on: February 17, 2020, 07:58:06 AM »

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #473 on: February 17, 2020, 07:58:06 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #474 on: February 20, 2020, 02:02:08 PM »
Since my health is better and my wife has less nursing requirements from me I have been able to make 4 other devices and each has taught me a lot.  I have to clean up some of my quick and dirty rapid prototype crap to refine my measurements and I have applied the Butch Lafonte attract ballanced with repel to compensate for the attraction when the magnet has twisted and lifted. I can unset that twist with a tiny unit of work when Butch Lafonte balanced well. I finally got that idea last night about dark and cobbled it together quickly.

More in a few days if all goes well.
Get on it guys its great fun.

Norman

 

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