Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 84255
  • *Latest: romeos69

  • *Total Posts: 898220
  • *Total Topics: 15837
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 6
  • *Guests: 15
  • *Total: 21

Author Topic: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas  (Read 13582 times)

Offline CuriousChris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2010, 07:07:20 AM »
The Second Big Problem with Free Energy is the whole Zero Point Energy thing.  So, we're surrounded by enormous energy, right?  But where is the 'sink' for that energy? How does it 'run downhill'?  Do we need another dimension for it to flow into?

It's like being at the bottom of the ocean and being surrounded by tons of pressure per square inch. Exactly what good is it if you don't have an area of lesser pressure to flow into?  And where's that?

Gravity perhaps?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2010, 07:07:20 AM »

Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8366
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2010, 08:34:02 AM »
Free energy? There is no such thing, just as there is so such thing as a substance. A substance is thought of as a solid but yet there is nothing solid. Everything is energy and energy is anything. Energy is vibrant and the vibrance is what energy is.
 It takes work to create and therefore energy created is never free and that makes it impossible to find and or discover free energy.

 Our greed wants, which changes our preception of what we need. We need nothing more then the necessities needed to survive which is nothing more then food, water and shelter from the elements.
 Our greed to want for what we do not need has put us in the position we are now in. Big money thrives off our desire to want things we do not need. Today they make laws that require us to have and do certain things just so we can feel like we have some sort of freedom. We have no one to blame for this but ourselves.

 If I was to provide you with a design that would create all the energy you want without costing you anymore then what the materials cost to build it, what would you do with it? Would it give you more freedom? Think real hard about that before you answer.

 Here is some more food for thought. What do you think big money would do if we were to create something they charge us for and or takes their control away? They have already put themselves in postion that they can use to do away with all they don't like and or want around. The only reason they have not done this yet is because they thrive off our ignorance and that makes them feel more superior. If we take away their superiority, they will have no need for us which will then, most likely, put them in a position to do away with the majority so they can still have the control their greed desires.

I respectfully disagree.  There is such a thing as free energy and I use it every day.  Both my earth battery (EER) and Joule Thief circuits give me free energy which I use on a daily basis.  Now if you meant Overunity, then, you may be correct.

All of my devices work no different than a solar cell or a windmill or water wheel.  I am just tapping into energy that we all know exists but, it costs me nothing so it is indeed free energy.

My Joule Thief circuits run off of "dead" AA batteries that other have tossed out.  I get them for free so I get a lot of free light for many, many hours off of each one.

Do you see my point?

I am not creating energy out of nothing here.  It is not overunity but, I will agree that frequency plays a large part in everything I am able to do.  Tesla knew this and we are now re-learning it today.

Bill

Offline Tito L. Oracion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2203
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2010, 03:45:59 AM »
Energy is free all around us, as tesla said we just have to harnessed it and he is right!

we can amplify, squeeze it and so forth its up to you.

see the electric company? they made use a turbine to rotate by the falling water and that is free for them but we are paying because for what they've done right?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2010, 03:45:59 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8366
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2010, 04:46:35 AM »
Tito:

That is exactly right.  Actually, if you think about it, the water turbines are really a form of solar energy.  The sun evaporates water and it rains and places the water back up on a higher plane so it can run downhill again.  pretty neat, except that we now are paying for this natural occurrence.

Of course, they did build the dams and the generators and ran all of the wires and such so, they do need to make money from that but, the point is that we can all pretty much do the same thing ourselves.

Bill

Offline Cairun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 05:04:31 AM »
energy and matter had to be created at the beginning.  or, how did we and everything come to be?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 05:04:31 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline nightlife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 08:21:11 AM »
"I respectfully disagree.  There is such a thing as free energy and I use it every day.  Both my earth battery (EER) and Joule Thief circuits give me free energy which I use on a daily basis.  Now if you meant Overunity, then, you may be correct."

 It may be free to you but something worked to produce it which means it wasn't free.

 "My Joule Thief circuits run off of "dead" AA batteries that other have tossed out.  I get them for free so I get a lot of free light for many, many hours off of each one.

Do you see my point?"

 The battery's are not actually dead and again, it may be free to you but it really isn't free energy at all.

"I am not creating energy out of nothing here.  It is not overunity but, I will agree that frequency plays a large part in everything I am able to do.  Tesla knew this and we are now re-learning it today."

 I agree.

 Keep up the good work.

Offline WilbyInebriated

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3141
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 11:34:59 AM »
It may be free to you but something worked to produce it which means it wasn't free.
if it didn't cost a dime out of my pocket. it is free. that is the definition of free in this context.

The battery's are not actually dead and again, it may be free to you but it really isn't free energy at all.
so pay the electric company to light your lights and we will light ours with batteries we got for free that are "dead". and while your at it, waste half of the energy capacity you have paid money for and throw out your "not actually dead batteries" as per status quo... or better yet, donate them to someone who challenges the status quo and chooses not to be 'one man who wastes enough for thousands' and will use the remaining energy.

keep up the good work.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 11:34:59 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline antigrav89

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2021, 12:16:18 AM »
Ilia Prigogine showed that non linear, far from equilibrium open systems can self-organize through fluctuations or dissipative processes by irreversibly
evolving from chaos to ordered states without violating any of the laws of Thermodynamics.
IMO, most of the free-energy devices use this approach by stressing the highly turbulent vacuum medium through shock-waves using,
for example, High-voltage input sources (Searl's SEG, Biefeld-Brown effect) or buckling fields (Sweet-Floyd's VTA)...

The second ingredient required for implementing free-energy solutions is based on the negative mass concept.

H. Bondi considers the three following cases, depending on the sign of the inertial mass, and the gravitational (active and passive)
masses (cf. H. Bondi, "Negative Mass In General Relativity" (1957). Rev. Mod. Phys. 29, 423):

(i) Inertial mass negative, gravitational mass is
positive. A body consisting of matter of this kind will
respond perversely to all forces whether gravitational
or of other kinds, but will produce gravitational forces
just as a usual body does.

(ii) Inertial mass positive, gravitational masses
negative. In this case we would have normal behavior
relating to all nongravitational forces, but gravitational
behavior involving masses of this type and of type (i)
would be governed by a negative Coulomb law; i.e.,
like masses would attract and unlike masses would
repel.

(iii) All mass is negative. This would be a combination
of (i) and (ii). Matter of this kind responds
perversely to nongravitational forces, responds like
ordinary matter to gravitational forces [a negative mass does not fall upwards in the gravitational field of an active mass body, like the Earth] , but produces
repulsive gravitational fields.

Only the case (iii) is physically acceptable since it is consistent with the Einstein's Equivalence Principle (inertial mass equals to gravitational mass).
In this case, a negative mass repels both negative and positive masses and a positive mass attracts both negative and positive masses,
so  when a positive and a negative mass are present together, the negative mass repels the positive mass which attracts the negative mass (leading to the so-called runaway behavior where positive and negative mass bodies chase each other), and the two masses accelerate with the same rate and in the same direction (that of the positive mass), while keeping the same separation between each other, if the two masses are equal and opposite.
The runaway behavior, which does not violate the momentum and energy conservation laws (since the total momentum and the total kinetic energy are null but the interaction potential energy is not) is generally rejected as unphysical by most of the mainstream physicists who retain the case (ii).

Yet, it has been shown, both theoretically and experimentally, that the runaway behavior may be obtained by simulating negative masses
using mass-spring oscillating systems (cf. J. Zhou et al, "Experimental study on interaction between a positive mass and a negative effective mass through a mass–spring system", Theoretical and Applied Mechanics Letters 5 (2015) 196–199).

Quantum electromagnetic vacuum is often modelled by electron-positron virtual (positive mass) particles pairs associated to the quantum vacuum fluctuations.
IMO, the quantum vacuum fluctuations might be made of positive and negative quantum entangled mass pseudo-particles states viewed from the exterior a single zero-mass state that might be separated and self-organize by stressing the vacuum medium.
These positive and negative quantum vacuum mass states might also have electric equal and opposite charges (as to ensure electric neutrality).

Thus, what we have is two oppositely charged particles that accelerate with the same rate in the same direction and have zero total mass, that may create a current, but contrarily to the superconducting current created by Cooper (positive mass) electron pairs weakly-coupled with the positive ions of the conducting material, the negative-positive mass strongly coupled pairs have zero mass, so zero inertia and there are no heat dissipative processes and no energy losses and
no extreme cooling is required for the the conducting material.
As these supercurrents self-organize from turbulent vacuum medium, entropy decreases along with the temperature of the material leading to the cold 
currents phenomena usually observed in the free-energy experiments. Once such a free-energy device is started, it can also become self-running.

If positive and negative mass states can be isolated from each other, the runaway behavior makes possible to implement field propulsion propellant-less drives
such as the Alcubierre drive without requiring any hypothetical exotic matter since negative mass matter can be tapped into the quantum vacuum.

The document by G. A. Landis from NASA in the attached file gives a clear account of negative mass concept.

Offline stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2976
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2021, 09:55:01 PM »

Thus, what we have is two oppositely charged particles that accelerate with the same rate in the same direction and have zero total mass, that may create a current,
The document by G. A. Landis from NASA in the attached file gives a clear account of negative mass concept.
Well there is some misunderstanding here.

 1. Negative mass is any region of space in which for some observers the mass density is measured to be negative.
    This could occur due to    a  region of space in which the stress component of the Einstein stress–energy tensor is larger in magnitude    than the mass density.
So in reality  there is no negative mass but  just  conditional negative  mass  and depends from position of an observer.

/Negative_mass#:~-negative mass is a type of exotic matter whose mass is of opposite sign to the mass of normal matter, e.g. −1 kg.
-It is used in certain speculative hypothetical technologies,

2. If we  look for zero total mass, we see photon  having no mass and immune to gravitation.
   
however not photon but space-time around mass object is curved  so the photon fallows the lines  of that curvature.   
 
and that is why some sources says about  photon being  affected by gravitation
 
3. 
is photon a particle?
     
A photon is a tiny particle of light. It is the tiniest particle of light possible in nature.
     A photon can also be described as a type of quantum, that is, a tiny particle.
     
https://astronomy.com/magazine/ask-astro/2019/09/how-does-gravity-affect-photons-that-is-bend-light-if-photons-   
     Photons have-no-mass and no charge
     

But you description of particle Dear  antigrav89 stays about no mass and charge
and here I  have problem.
quote:
"A photon is massless, has no electric charge,"
 Photon#:~:

So the problem I have  with your comment is that you specified  the net outcome ( total) of  particles  being  opposite  in charge as having no mass.

Question:
 If than  the charge is canceled and  total mass of the resulting  spice is  zero, than how that unnamed  by you  product  differs from photon?
and  if it doesn't  differ than  your statement about current being caused by  it   is false .
for your entertainment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS_rEzKdzBA


Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2021, 09:55:01 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3463
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2021, 11:52:03 PM »
The theory of thermodynamics is a psychological construct used to govern our thoughts. The laws of thermodynamics only apply to a theoretical closed system we humans are unable to create here or in the reachable space around our planet.


In a dynamic system, energy is transformed and transfered constantly from one state to the next.
Where there is chaos, there is potential energy.
Ordering is the consumption of that energy, which disperses back into chaos.


Things come into form and are destroyed only to become something else.
With or without what we perceive as ‘nature’.


“Energy out of nothing” is a phrase intended to mythologize new fields of energy research that extend beyond our perception. Rather that we should say Energy from a yet unknown source, in need of further investigation.


Matter itself has been observed to manifest out of nothing or disappear into nothing again.
At times we have the tools and knowledge to observe some of the energies involved, at other times we assume we know they must exist.


Even when we remove and filter out all energy we can manipulate, we still find energies entering our systems, perturbing the chaos into forming structure.
The echoes of destruction feed the mechanisms of structure.


We have little understanding of ‘what energy is’ nor where it comes from.
Our human definitions only allow us to imagine it under confined conditions.
The Free Energy movement is more about the freedom to discover new methods of generating and harvesting energy for our purposes, a freedom that threatens the only “law” that controls it.

Offline antigrav89

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2021, 12:59:19 AM »
1) Regarding negative mass, I think that what you are speaking of is, following the cosmologists, a region of space where the positive vacuum energy density would be lower than the normal positive energy density as derived from Quantum Electro-Dynamics Theory, thus leading to a negative effective vacuum energy density.
Here, note that we assume that the (positive) vacuum energy density can vary and thus, quantum vacuum medium would behave like a compressible fluid and the normal vacuum as we know it  would be a false vacuum.

What I am speaking is not effective but real negative mass matter as described in the presentation of G. A. Landis.
The negative mass matter concept is generally denied by physicists because the existence of this type of matter violates the
energy conditions for the Einstein's field equations that impose the stress-tensor energy density component to be positive or null.
However, there exist cosmological approaches based on bi-metric theories not violating these conditions but these theories prevent
positive mass matter and negative mass matter from interacting with each other.

The article cited in my post (in attached file) shows experimentally that a positive mass and a negative effective mass (simulated from a mass-spring oscillating system) can be self-accelerated in same direction.
This result is interesting because it supports the theoretical behaviour regarding the interaction of a positive mass and a negative mass as envisioned by H. Bondi in 1957 and proposed by Robert Forward for propulsion.

2) The zero mass pseudo-particle I spoke of for replacing the electron-positron virtual pair concept generally used for describing the quantum vacuum fluctuations of the electromagnetic field
is not a photon but a quantum entangled state consisting in a positive and a negative "particles" of equal and opposite masses having possibly equal and opposite electric charges.

The electron-positron virtual pairs creation and annihilation processes, allowed by the Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, are rather puzzling.
We are only aware of the initial and final states of these processes through transition amplitudes but we know nothing about the interacting processes
explaining how an electron and a positron are created from the collision of photons and how electron and positron can be annihilated into photons
and some physicists think that a photon might be a composite state, whose internal structure would already contain charged states.
 
3) Quantum Theory tells us that a photon is a quanta of energy (a massless neutral quantum state) that can be absorbed or emitted by (positive mass) matter and behave like a wave or a particle. The zero mass pseudo-particle I suggest has nothing to do with a photon.

Regarding the laws of Thermodynamics, it has been shown that they are not limited to closed systems at equilibrium but can be extended to open non equilibrium non linear systems (see for example the following books by Ilia Prigogine: "Self-Organization in NonEquilibrium Systems", Wiley, 1977 and  "Modern Thermodynamics", Wiley, 2015).
Moray B. King also supports this approach for explaining how free-energy devices tap energy into the quantum vacuum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2021, 12:59:19 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Floor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2021, 02:03:58 AM »

Regarding the laws of Thermodynamics, it has been shown that they are not limited to closed systems at equilibrium but can be extended to open non equilibrium non linear systems (see for example the following books by Ilia Prigogine: "Self-Organization in NonEquilibrium Systems", Wiley, 1977 and  "Modern Thermodynamics", Wiley, 2015).

Moray B. King also supports this approach for explaining how free-energy devices tap energy into the quantum vacuum.

The day that the laws of Thermodynamics have been totally rewritten, is the day we can
waste the time to discuss that " it has been shown that they are not limited to closed
systems at equilibrium but can be extended to open non equilibrium non linear systems".

To begin with, there are no known closed systems, unless one defines a "closed system"
as not actually a closed system.  In which case any real discussion is already over.

At the time of the framing of the laws of conservation and as far as I am aware...
still it remains that...

there is no definition in physics for the word created.
there is no definition in physics for the word destroyed.

  Also

There is no such thing which can be demonstrated, which is "nothing" and
there is no such place in which it can be demonstrated that there is "nothing".

Thermodynamics laws are double speak from the start and broken.  Making up and /or
changing definitions after the fact is not going to fix that.





Offline antigrav89

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2021, 03:42:15 AM »
To begin with, there are no known closed systems, unless one defines a "closed system"
as not actually a closed system.  In which case any real discussion is already over.
By definition, a closed system exchanges energy but not matter with the exterior.
For example,  the Earth may be considered as a closed system, when one considers that the Earth absorbs solar energy and emits it back to space, but it is only an approximation, since the Earth also receives matter from space, such as neutrinos, meteorites...
In the Real World, all physical objects in the Universe are open systems constantly interacting with the all-pervading vacuum.
Think of a charged particle at rest in an inertial frame.
Physicists tell us that it creates a static electric field in all the space, but where does its electrostatic energy come from?
The only possible answer to this question is that the particle constantly exchanges energy with the vacuum. But the vacuum is supposed to only exchanges energy by radiation (photons). So the electric field emitted by the particle has to be a radiating field, not a static field. We had supposed that the particle was at rest, but we know that, due to the vacuum fluctuations, the particle randomly oscillates around its equilibrium position. But we also know that an accelerated charged particle radiates an electro-magnetic field. So now, we can have a better view of the interaction of a charged particle with the vacuum.
For mastering the development of free-energy devices we have to improve our knowledge of the nature of the quantum vacuum.

Offline Floor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2021, 07:32:29 AM »

                                Excerpt from Wikipedia
                                      Closed system

"           In classical mechanics
In  classical mechanics non relativistic, a closed system is a physical system that doesn't
exchange any matter with its surroundings, and isn't subject to any net force whose
source is external to the system.

 A closed system in classical mechanics would be equivalent to an isolated system in thermodynamics. Closed systems are often used to limit the factors that can affect the
results of specific problem or experiment.

                                   In thermodynamics
Main article: Thermodynamic system
 
Properties of Isolated, closed, and open systems in exchanging energy and matter.

In thermodynamics, a closed system can exchange energy (as heat or work) but not matter,
with its surroundings.

An isolated system cannot exchange any heat, work, or matter with the surroundings, while
an open system can exchange energy and matter.

(This scheme of definition of terms is not uniformly used, though it is convenient for some
purposes. In particular, some writers use 'closed system' where 'isolated system' is
used here. "
... ... ...                               
                    There is no such thing as an isolated system which can be demonstrated.
... ... ...

"In classical mechanics
In  classical mechanics non relativistic, a closed system is a physical system that doesn't
exchange any matter with its surroundings, and isn't subject to any net force whose
source is external to the system."
... ... ...
      Neither can this kind of closed system be demonstrated to actually exist, any where.
... ... ...

partial quote


For mastering the development of free-energy devices we have to improve our knowledge of the nature of the quantum vacuum.

                  Big assumption !
                  Maybe for you not for me.



Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3463
Re: The Problem With Free Energy Ideas
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2021, 12:57:40 AM »
Let us consider a gas cloud in space cooling, condensing, collapsing upon its’ own gravity over a duration of time, and becoming a solid mass.


The assumption is that entropy is at a maximum in the gas state,
and that as a condensed solid entropy is at its’ lowest.


From chaos -> to order is what physically occurs.


If we think in terms of technologies like a solar concentrator or acoustic or optical resonance
where we condense small energies from a large area into great energies at a single point.
“input” can be as negligible as an influence or background noise.


a crystal radio can be powered by signals from the stars just as easily as from a nearby radio station.
with the right frequencies and amplification, can power limitless devices.


we see a world around us bright in color and for many this is all they know.
Walk around with infrared glasses for a day then again with ultraviolet
And you find two different worlds to explore.


Then we realize that these worlds exist in every spectrum, and with advanced optical devices we can explore each of them and discover, not only new things but new perspectives on how nature relates to each of these frequencies.


The same can be done with sounds both above and below our spectrum of hearing.
And again in the electromagnetic above and below our abilities to detect it.


Light itself most likely is a manifestation of a 5th dimensional force or constraint placed upon our portion of the local universe, of which we know very little.
It is this 5th dimensional link that bridges relativistic gravitation and dopler shift.


Ionization and lasing can be stimulated from plentiful renewable resources and energy harvested therefrom. An area that has lost interest, but never viability, over the last 200 years.


renewable and even organic battery systems as well as biological gas production could be easily industrialized, with little funding and political support.


A tunnel from one geographical region to the next can exploit tremendous differences in atmospheric pressure, to power arrays of wind turbines which generate more reliably and at a much greater efficiency and lower cost than traditional wind energy.


The oceans provide endless cyclical motion just waiting to be geared to our crankshafts.


Rivers and lakes providing unstoppable force, neglected and paved over.


We dont always need to understand to source of the energy, only how to use it.







 

OneLink