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Author Topic: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface  (Read 41644 times)

Offline lumen

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2009, 02:16:55 AM »
Well, that's it then. It should be easy to build a free energy device using a wheel with some magnets with one larger magnet for a local field.
Just keep the local field the same magnitude as the earths field and place it inline with the north pole and opposite the inclination angle for your area.
The side of the wheel in the local field will rotate up while the other side will use the earths field and rotate down.
It should rotate for about 300 or 400 years.



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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2009, 02:29:10 AM »
Well, that's it then. It should be easy to build a free energy device using a wheel with some magnets with one larger magnet for a local field.
Just keep the local field the same magnitude as the earths field and place it inline with the north pole and opposite the inclination angle for your area.
The side of the wheel in the local field will rotate up while the other side will use the earths field and rotate down.
It should rotate for about 300 or 400 years.

I wish I could hand you a cigar but not today.

When the magnet 'falls' up - don't you think the effect will reverse? Symmetry again  ;)

Offline lumen

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2009, 02:43:34 AM »
Quote
When the magnet 'falls' up - don't you think the effect will reverse? Symmetry again 

No, That is what the local field does. It makes that side of the wheel want to flip the other way. I just tested this and I'm thinking it works. The local field is only a small sphere inside the earths large field. One half of the wheel uses the local field and the other half uses the earths field.
 It would be like if you could have a local spot of anti-gravity, could you make that work?


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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2009, 02:43:34 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2009, 04:20:16 AM »
No, That is what the local field does. It makes that side of the wheel want to flip the other way. I just tested this and I'm thinking it works. The local field is only a small sphere inside the earths large field. One half of the wheel uses the local field and the other half uses the earths field.
 It would be like if you could have a local spot of anti-gravity, could you make that work?

Ok. I think I have the correct picture. I need to sleep on your idea. In the mean time, I think our discussion is going outside the scope of this thread.

Offline lumen

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2009, 04:01:44 PM »
So now we know that the magnet sliding on an aluminum plate and sticking or flipping, is actually because of the earths magnetic field!

I believe TK first mentioned this and it seems all testing indicates this is the case.

It indicates to me that I have always under estimated the strength of the earths magnetic field. I always figured it was very weak until doing some tests myself. Just playing with a N50 magnet in your hand you can feel the earths influence, once you know what to look for.



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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2009, 04:01:44 PM »
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Offline RunningBare

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2009, 05:06:00 PM »
I've often wondered about the earths magnetic strength, that is one hunk of dynamo rotating at the core and it creates the magnetosphere that protects the earth from solar winds, now that's reaching out a long way, but why is it that metals near the pole do not slam into the ground, if the field is strong enough to deflect solar winds in orbit you'd expect it to be extremely powerful at the earths surface.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2009, 06:13:03 PM »
You've hit upon, I believe, the physical meaning of Maxwell's equations. The divergence of B is zero but the gradient of B has a value at any point in the field. (The curl of B also, but that has a different meaning.)
What this means is that the attraction (or repulsion) isn't an effect of the strength of the field but rather its spatial distribution, specifically how it falls off with distance. In a uniform field a magnetic substance only experiences a torque, not a pull. This is why a compass needle (or a needle on a cork floating in water) isn't forced to move northward,  it just rotates to align with the local field lines.
The earth's field is uniform over small scales in the lab, so magnets and iron don't migrate.

I think.

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2009, 06:13:03 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2009, 07:21:39 PM »
Hypothesis only…
Presume for a moment that the reason static charges of the same polarity repel is purely because of the magnetic field resulting from spin.  Also, then the main energy transfer is due to the combining or clashing of individual magnetic fields –or- you can push a magnet with another magnet when they are repelling.

If the main conveyance is through the magnetic fields then there is a possible explanation of a non-moving magnet staying at rest – when moving it falls under the influence of the ambient magnetic field. This would be no different than a point charge angular velocity due to Lorentz.
In plain terms: the Earth’s magnetic field sees the moving magnet the same as it would see a moving point charge. It applies torque to the assumed point charge (the incredibly tiny magnet and field) but only when the field of the magnet is moving perpendicular to the Earth’s field . In other words, the moving charges/magnetic fields are all realigned but only when moving relative to the ambient field.

Sound ridiculous? The results of these experiments seem to be pointing to Faraday disk like results.

The suspended magnets worked like a perfect compass when the disk was not rotating. When the disk was rotating it was rotating within two magnetic fields, Earth’s and the suspended magnets. If you have two fields out of phase from another a third vector can be created – rotation. If you have rotation and one field you create another field. If the direction of rotation is wrong you would only have deflection. If it is right one of the fields would be caused to rotate.

As far as bulldozers not being  stuck to the ground and unable to move….
I think they must be in a very deep hole if this ever happens.
This may fall under near/far field. Another definition that varies. My belief is far field can easily cause a torque with almost no attracting/repelling while near field can do it all with much more force.
The reason I say this is I remember a grade school experiment with a magnet floating on a plastic lid in water. It was a good compass but we had to keep pushing it back to center and it always headed for the North edge of the water container even if we placed it on another edge.

Just open thoughts above….

Offline BEP

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2009, 07:40:33 PM »
Strike my last mention of rotation of the suspended magnets caused by a rotating field and static field creating a third vector.

I just replaced my thread with monofilament and it only deflected but at different amounts. At the moment I'm thinking the attractive fields generated in the disk are simply stronger with the disk rotating one direction as opposed to the other direction. It may have only been stretching the thread more in one direction of disk rotation.

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2009, 07:40:33 PM »
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Offline Justalabrat

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2009, 08:51:43 AM »
Magnetic levitation with a WHOLE lot of copper ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ngx8YMLOzU

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2009, 09:29:35 PM »
This is why a compass needle (or a needle on a cork floating in water) isn't forced to move northward,  it just rotates to align with the local field lines.
The earth's field is uniform over small scales in the lab, so magnets and iron don't migrate.

I think.

When you take two magnets you get a stronger magnetic force
response then when you take a magnet and an object made of
steel or iron.

A magnet will have a pole to pole distance very small relative
to the earths magnetic pole to pole distance, so a compass
magnet is going to primarily experience a twisting motion, the
friction of which can be made very low (Think; Cavendish
experiment.) The "delta" magnetic force (stronger on one end
then the other) is going to be very small. If the compass magnet
could somehow "float in space" and not experience terrestrial friction
I think it would slowly accelerate towards the stronger magnetic pole.
Iron would accelerate even more slowly. The environment has energy
flows that can interfere with this migration process, even if friction
was eliminated. Ions and free electrons definitely feel the earths
magnetic force but since they are electrically charged they primarily
spiral. Satelites have been designed that use magnetic reaction control
systems to allign themselves using earth's magnetic field, electrically.

:S:MarkSCoffman


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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2009, 09:29:35 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Magnetic braking of magnets sliding along a sloped aluminum surface
« Reply #116 on: April 27, 2010, 03:41:20 AM »
Not an expert here by a long way but I don't see much mention here of the Lenz's law.  And from what I found recently I don't see anything here regarding the braking of magnets sliding on aluminum that is not explained by Lenz's law.  At least recently when I dropped a large heavy neo magnet down a copper pipe and also down an aluminum pipe I was astounded to see it float slowly down both pipes.  I then tried sliding it down an inclined sheet of copper and a sheet of aluminum and in both cases it slid slowly.  All Lenz's law from what was explained to me.  However I don't quite understand a free falling magnet always flipping over to one pole.  I just tried that and see (here in Northern hemisphere at least) that the North pole of the magnet always wants to flip down.  Does the South pole flip down in the Southern hemisphere?  I thought the lines of magnetic forces would be parallel to the surface of the planet rather than in the center of it or below the surface.  Something is not adding up in what I have observed. 
   Please excuse me if I have missed something here as I didn't read the entire thread but the first page and the last couple pages seem to be drawing some conclusions that don't quite sound correct to me.  At least I don't see what the Earth's magnetic field has to do with magnetic braking of a neo magnet sliding down a sheet of aluminum.  In trying that I found no difference with North or South down when sliding.  Even almost vertical it didn't flip.  I haven't watched the video's yet so I'm just jumping in on some of this without having all the info.  But again from what I've skimmed some things I'm reading don't make sense. 

 

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