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Author Topic: Self running coil?  (Read 301334 times)

Magluvin

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2010, 10:20:32 PM »
I think what luc is getting at is, if it takes virtually zero input to get the higher voltage, and if the SG circuit is very low in input, that the cap voltage will soon be at par with being able to run everything. I would suggest some regulation to the sg chip unless it has self regulation to maintain freq position.
The key was to get above the 12v battery in order to replace it.
The Sg3525 uses 5ma to run the oscillator, and if the output load is nill, he should be able to run the SG chip circuit with his output.
So he is only a couple steps away from looping this thing, if not there already with 1 step. =]

I have a couple of these chips I am going to try on the Orbonbon. There are some simpler circuits than shown above to get one up and running.

Mags

LightRider

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2010, 03:17:13 AM »
JL Naudin have the same simple principle ... Really Impressive !

Look at:

2SGen, an amazing tiny Solid State Generator by JL Naudin:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/index.htm (french)
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm (english)

"The hidden principle: the core magnetization/demagnetization process"

Diagram, parts, wire gage, etc ... every thing is there.

So, to have more information goto JLN web site.
Everything is there, including the scientific explanation.

I hope this will help :)
LightRider



« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 04:01:52 AM by LightRider »

conradelektro

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2010, 06:00:16 PM »
Hello Luc,

I like your video, which I found when looking for "solid state orbo" replications.

Unfortunately it is impossible to follow your explanations without schematics. I know how much work it is to provide meaningfull schematics, but it would be very helpful to base the discussion on solid grounds.

I am very interested in what you are doing with the toroid, magnets and the pick up coil and would like to replicate it.

I built an orbo replication (just the motor part) and found it very difficult to come up with a sound mechanical design. My "orbo" is turning quite nicely but the torque is very low. So I did not bother to add pic up coils, the output would be way below the input to the toroids.

My contraption starts spinning with about 0,5 Watts per toroid. And I can not send more than about 4 Watts trough each toroid (which makes my "orbo" spin wildly), otherwise they become hot quickly. So, coming up with something that spins quite nicely is easy. Getting more output than input is the difficulty (which everybody will have noticed by now). Steorn uses magnet bearings and a very high turn rate and still the output seems to be rather low, even negligible.

So I switched my little research efforts to "solid state orbos".

I follow the efforts of Mr. Naudin  http://jnaudin.free.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm , but can not even replicate his results (I get much less output for what I put in than he does).

Greetings, Conrad

mscoffman

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2010, 09:04:14 PM »
I think what luc is getting at is, if it takes virtually zero input to get the higher voltage, and if the SG circuit is very low in input, that the cap voltage will soon be at par with being able to run everything. I would suggest some regulation to the sg chip unless it has self regulation to maintain freq position.
The key was to get above the 12v battery in order to replace it.
The Sg3525 uses 5ma to run the oscillator, and if the output load is nill, he should be able to run the SG chip circuit with his output.
So he is only a couple steps away from looping this thing, if not there already with 1 step. =]

I have a couple of these chips I am going to try on the Orbonbon. There are some simpler circuits than shown above to get one up and running.

Mags

@magluvin

That *is* the other way to do it. A quick look at the Mot. SG3525
spec sheet shows that it has an internal (series) voltage regulator.
Vcc= 8->35Vdc for an internal => 5.1Vdc...all systems should
be go.

If one needs to go to microwatts a digital circuit like in a digital
watch could be used. It all depends on what is needed. That is
- if there is non-input supplied gain there. I'll keep my fingers
crossed. Also medium or smaller power mosfet will have less
internal parasitic capacitance therefore require less AC drive
power at the expense of slightly higher source-to-drain resistance.
This may be reasonable trade since the coil doesn't draw anything
on average, just in the on/off pulses.

:S:MarkSCoffman

skywatcher

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2010, 10:04:42 PM »
Unfortunately it is impossible to follow your explanations without schematics. I know how much work it is to provide meaningfull schematics, but it would be very helpful to base the discussion on solid grounds.

The circuit diagram needs not to be drawn with some nice software. A hand-drawn and scanned or photographed sketch would be ok. This doesn't take much time, but it would improve the understanding a lot. For me it's also not clear how the components are connected.

gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2010, 10:11:15 PM »
Hi everyone,

I took some time off today to do some more experiments as I can't stop thinking about this setup and I'm sure that goes for many of you.

I made 2 new video's to which I hope will answer some questions and help understand the effect.

Sorry I can't answer individual questions. I rather use the limited time I have to continue experimenting and posting videos that will hopefully cover everything one would need to make a successful replication.

@Gyula, can you please explain how the 3vpp measured gate leak between the source and drain is capable of keeping the circuit running NOW at 30vdc, 57KHz with 50% duty cycle without using any current and maintaining 1.90vdc on the pickup coil with 49,850 Ohm load. Thank you for your help and time

Test 5 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhrYzBld74w

Test 6 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UflGpzijWIA

Luc
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 12:00:18 AM by gotoluc »

xenomorphlabs

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2010, 10:15:43 PM »
@magluvin

That *is* the other way to do it. A quick look at the Mot. SG3525
spec sheet shows that it has an internal (series) voltage regulator.
Vcc= 8->35Vdc for an internal => 5.1Vdc...all systems should
be go.

If one needs to go to microwatts a digital circuit like in a digital
watch could be used. It all depends on what is needed. That is
- if there is non-input supplied gain there. I'll keep my fingers
crossed. Also medium or smaller power mosfet will have less
internal parasitic capacitance therefore require less AC drive
power at the expense of slightly higher source-to-drain resistance.
This may be reasonable trade since the coil doesn't draw anything
on average, just in the on/off pulses.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Naudin used optos to drive his MOSFET in his set-up at 200 Hz and gets the same effect, so at least in his set-up he demonstrates that there is no leakage into the coil circuit.
So Gotoluc must decide if he really wants to spend too much effort on excluding that possibility in his set-up.
After all the effect is well explained by Naudin.



mscoffman

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2010, 10:52:40 PM »
Naudin used optos to drive his MOSFET in his set-up at 200 Hz and gets the same effect, so at least in his set-up he demonstrates that there is no leakage into the coil circuit.
So Gotoluc must decide if he really wants to spend too much effort on excluding that possibility in his set-up.
After all the effect is well explained by Naudin.

I'm refering to the link;

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm

If I'm using the wrong reference please correct me.

No...he proves that what appears to be toroid external coupling
of flux from the coil is not due to any *characteristic of
the instrumentation signal generator*. It's not *overunity* that is driven
by a six volt battery. Just toroid external flux driven by an 6 volt
battery.

Then he powers the signal generator from the six volt battery too.
What is happening is that the magnet is saturating the toroid
material and therefore coil flux is pushed outside the toroid.

The magnetic saturation of the toroid material has to be what is
happening when the coils inductance changes from 1000mh to
44mh when the magnet is in place. Shown by gotoluc. This change
of inductance is a radical thing and is most unexpected.

Nuadin has not proved overunity at all when it has been shown that
the toroid is not accepting flux. One expects that the toroid will
always accept external flux but I can see from the inductance change
that strong magnets are saturating it.

Now is there any overunity energy or not?

gotoluc has got the goods and it's definitely his turn! :)

:S:MarkSCoffman
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 11:24:15 PM by mscoffman »

xenomorphlabs

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2010, 11:00:33 PM »
I'm refering to the link;

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/indexen.htm

If I'm using the wrong reference please correct me.

No...he proves that what appears to be toroid external coupling
of flux from the coil is not due to any *characteristic of
the instrumentation signal generator*. It's not *overunity* that is driven
by a six volt battery. Just toroid external flux driven by an 6 volt
battery.

Then he powers the signal generator from the six volt battery too.
What is happening is that the magnet is saturating the toroid
material and therefore coil flux is pushed outside the toroid.

The magnetic saturation of the toroid material has to be what is
happening when the coils inductance changes from 1000mh to
44mh when the magnet is in place. Show by gotoluc. This change
of inductance is a radical thing and is most unexpected.

Nuadin has not proved overunity at all when it has been shown that
the toroid is not accepting flux. One expects that the toroid will
always accept external flux but I can see from the inductance change
that strong magnets are saturating it.

Now is there any overunity energy or not?

gotoluc has got the goods and it's definitely his turn! :)

:S:MarkSCoffman

Have you read the recommended literature:
"Ferrites and Ferromagnetics Free Energy Generation"
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/2SGen/images/demag.pdf  ?

Also worth looking at is the last video showing the hysteresis changes occuring when the magnet is added.


gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2010, 11:17:58 PM »
Hi all,

please find attached circuit. If someone can clean it up and make it look good that would be great.

Thanks

Luc

Magluvin

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2010, 12:02:42 AM »
One thing I find interesting, not that we know it matters yet, is the coils working together yet wound in the opposite direction. Could this be an ingredient that has not been looked into?

Not to go off topic, but to expand on it....

If you had the 2 coils on the core so that when you send power to the coils, that they oppose one another instead of both causing circular flux in the core.  This may provide the same tension as the permanent mag provides the core in Lucs experiments. Just the thought of it in conventional circuitry would be a fault situation. But take it to resonance.  It would be different if the coils were 1 in 1 wrapped over one another out of phase, but 2 separate coils opposing would be working that magnetic spring.
Itseung claim on embedded magnetic core IS what we are seeing here. Just he magnet is on the outside of the core instead of being internal to the core circuit.
He says it works, Jln says it works, I say luc has got it going on. =]

I have a large ferrite core that I had a hard time getting the 2 halves apart. It is a center core with 2 outer legs, traditional transformer style. About 2.25x2.25x.75 in.  I dont remember what it came out of. But it has more mass than any of my toroids, which should lower the freq on that parameter alone.
I took it apart for ease of rewinding the plastic spool that slides on the center leg. Some of these ferrite cores of this style have a gap on the inner winding post. This one mates on all 3 surfaces.
So I figure just wind a core with 2 coils for some variability and try a no. of mags on it.
I

It funny, thinking about the resonance, my Orbonbon maybe has 2 resonant freq, one of the tcoil on the core and one for the pickup coil. So the mix might work very well if they were matched.

Mags

gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2010, 12:12:40 AM »
One thing I find interesting, not that we know it matters yet, is the coils working together yet wound in the opposite direction. Could this be an ingredient that has not been looked into?

Mags

Yes Mags!!!

this is how this coil is wound. It could be the difference. I'll know after more testing if it is.

Luc

HarryV

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2010, 12:27:36 AM »
Hi all,

please find attached circuit. If someone can clean it up and make it look good that would be great.

Thanks

Luc

Hi!
I will in Adobe illustrator. Give me an hour or so.

mscoffman

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2010, 12:51:02 AM »
@gotoluc

After seeing your test #6 - Could you set the device up
so that the capacitor bank is going up at it's maximum
rate driven by the signal generator then clip the SG3525
circuit power to the capacitors without driving any FET so
that the SG circuit is using power....does the SG3525 circuit
pull down (swamp) all the voltage being gained or is there
still some gain - i.e. the voltage keep going up?

:S:MarkSCoffman

gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2010, 12:56:42 AM »
Hi!
I will in Adobe illustrator. Give me an hour or so.

Thanks Harry

Luc