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Author Topic: Self running coil?  (Read 258455 times)

Offline skywatcher

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #435 on: March 31, 2010, 10:23:46 PM »
Cutting ferrite is difficult. It's very hard.
You need diamond or tungsten carbide tools to cut it, and in most cases the material will break apart from the vibrations.

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #435 on: March 31, 2010, 10:23:46 PM »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #436 on: March 31, 2010, 10:25:41 PM »
Hi Luc,

Yes I think the software with the audio card would be fine, though you would have to attenuate the 10V RMS at the Fluke output to the audio card input so that it should not overload.

Just occured to me: what if you would use your scope for monitoring the 10V voltage also at the Fluke input and measure the frequency with it at the same time?  Maybe the resolution will be enough (could it be increased in the scope software?).   

By the way, the 10V RMS sounds too high if comparing it to the so far 'usual' 10-11V peak to peak voltages across these toroidal coils, of course you can reduce it to around 3-4V RMS instead, but then you have to multiply the actual max resonance voltage value by .707 to know the lower and upper amplitudes for detuning. (say you adjust 3.4V RMS, then 3.4*.707=2.4V so you detune from the peak to the left and to right side till the amplitude reduces to 2.4V from the 3.4V)

From this test

1) the unloaded Q quality factor for the split and normal wound coils can be learned.
2) it will turn out if so far the MOSFET caused the distortion in the sinewave or the core. You would wish to see beautiful sine waves from these resonant circuits, not distorted.
3) the self capacitance of the split wound coil could be checked again.

With this test I ahave no intention to prove or disprove anything.

Regarding the sense of the previous test I asked: Besides what I already wrote, I suspected that the resonant impedance of the split wound coil (with the magnet) has increased at 8.3kHz (where you found its resonance) with respect to the normal wound coil's 6kHz resonance and at this increased impedance the MOSFET may get "overdriven", I mean it cannot 'give' its output power to the load due the too high resonant impedance and it reflects back.
It is the same if you have an audio amplifier and you drive it normally and use a 4 Ohm loudspeaker, and it works ok. Then you replace the 4 Ohm with a 16 Ohm loudspeaker and drive it with the same power, you will probably hear distortion because the load impedance is not optimum any more, it is too high for taking up all the available output power, the amplifying device or devices inside the amplifier will "produce" distortion (unwanted frequencies) from the reflected and not used up power and these may find their way back toward the power supply or elsewhere (and may cause harm in the active devices).
Something similar may happen in your case at the higher frequencies, of course at a much lower, just microWatt, power level. But I am not certain here whether this output 'reflection' really happens, it is a possibility.

Thanks,  Gyula

Thanks Gyula for the additional information and explanation of what these tests are for.

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #437 on: March 31, 2010, 10:28:29 PM »
Cutting ferrite is difficult. It's very hard.
You need diamond or tungsten carbide tools to cut it, and in most cases the material will break apart from the vibrations.

Yes I agree!  very difficult stuff to cut :P

Luc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #437 on: March 31, 2010, 10:28:29 PM »
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Offline skywatcher

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #438 on: March 31, 2010, 10:42:23 PM »
By the way, i think the most optimal core would be a 'pot core' like this:
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/images/Bild2642.jpg
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Bastelschule/RIM-Piccolo58-Spulensatz.jpg

Such cores have the lowest losses, are also closed like a toroid, but even more closed  ;) and the coil can be wound very easily because it's a normal coil, you can wind it with a drilling machine in one minute. The magnets can be placed on the outside.

I think i have some pot-cores somewhere, if i find them i will make some experiments...

Offline Eastov

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #439 on: March 31, 2010, 11:01:33 PM »
Hi guys,

   There's a 2.5 inch ferrite toroid core (Type W, 800 (medium) Permeability) for $5 at mouser.com and here's the link: 61mm exact size...

http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/74270097/?qs=5twSNpOB8IC3x1MNWE5eDg%3d%3d   

  There's also high permeability (slightly more expensive) here:
http://www.cwsbytemark.com/

e

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #439 on: March 31, 2010, 11:01:33 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #440 on: April 01, 2010, 02:23:27 AM »
By the way, i think the most optimal core would be a 'pot core' like this:
...
Such cores have the lowest losses, are also closed like a toroid, but even
more closed  ;) and the coil can be wound very easily because it's a normal
coil, you can wind it with a drilling machine in one minute. The magnets can
be placed on the outside.
...


@skywatcher;

I like this idea, not only is the toroid on all sides...External interference
can't make it's way inside...nice for applying to a working overunity
circuit for finding whether excess energy comes from outside or inside
the toroid core material.

---

BTW, If you get a "Red X" when you click on skywatchers second
link above - cut and paste the link into your browser to see the
picture?...anomalous+bogus.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #441 on: April 01, 2010, 04:56:31 AM »
Hi everyone,

NextGen67 suggested a test to which I had not done yet.

He suggested I test the single winding toroid with a magnet but dropping the inductance to half and also do the same with the dual coil toroid.

To my surprise both torois resonated at the same frequency.

So I decided to try them at quarter inductance and eighth inductance. Again they are very close.

Seeing these results I would now say that it is indeed the magnet that was causing the large difference in resonating frequency between the two toroids when tested one with magnet and the other without.

This could be easily explain:
The magnet causes a compression on the toroid, which could be like adding a bungee to a swing and the other one nothing. They will have a different resonating frequency. As you can see in the scope shots below, the more magnet flux is applied (stronger bungee) the higher the resonating frequency is. However, keep in mind that we are also lowering the inductance value which is the main reason of the increase in resonating frequency. The differences that I'm referring to is the 2KHz difference between resonating frequency of the two toroids tested (one with magnet and the other without). This is clear to me now and I hope it is for everyone else! since when the magnet is on both they become quite similar.

All tests are using 12.86vdc and IRF640 as switch, triggered by signal generator and tuned to send most current back to source. The green scope probe is between drain and source and yellow probe is between gate and source.

In this post I attached the two shots with magnet to drop inductance to half.

Notice the bonus of extra magnet flux but also with the extra inductance of the dual coil

Luc

First shot is of dual coil toroid at half H returning -8uA and next is single coil toroid at half H returning -7uA



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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #441 on: April 01, 2010, 04:56:31 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #442 on: April 01, 2010, 04:57:29 AM »
First shot is of dual coil toroid at quarter H returning -22uA and next is single coil toroid at quarter H returning -14uA

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #443 on: April 01, 2010, 04:57:49 AM »
First shot is of dual coil toroid at eighth H returning -39uA and next is single coil toroid at eighth H returning -27uA
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 05:45:04 AM by gotoluc »

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #443 on: April 01, 2010, 04:57:49 AM »
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Offline resonanceman

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #444 on: April 01, 2010, 05:00:04 AM »
This is a very informative video on magnetic transfer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLd_py1xTO8

Thanks for  posting that video 
I had missed that one...

I was planning on making  one of those for  transfering power  back to source  from a bedini

I disagree  with one thing in the video   he says that to release the charge you you to remove the  bar  .........a coil wound around the bar and kept open until needed   should not interfear with the charging.

I was planning on  feeding  pulsed  from several  coils  around a bedini  into  a large coil like in the video

Then  have  one  bedini  coil  fed to the extra winding on the  top  bar.....this  winding  would have to  be in opposition to the  flow of the flux .......it should  disrupt  the flux just long enough to  pulse your source battery.
It would   be a low loss   pulse  battery ......

gary

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #445 on: April 01, 2010, 02:37:34 PM »
First shot is of dual coil toroid at eighth H returning -39uA and next is single coil toroid at eighth H returning -27uA

Hi Luc,

It is very interesting the negativ current draw increases as you go higher in frequency. 

This is a very unusual measurement result so that if you do not mind I would like to suggest some simple measuring methods to make sure whether we can really trust in the negative polarity sign you experience. Please postpone what I asked yesterday for testing (Q measurement of the toroidal cores).

Would you use your last setup again where you were at 17.36-18.12kHz frequency already and the currents were  -39 and -27uA.

Alternative measurement suggestions for testing the polarity change:

#1  If you happen to have a 100uA or 1mA analog meter or an analog multimeter that has DC mA measuring range that would be the best. You would connect such an analog meter in series with the battery positive pole.
(On certain analog multimeters the most sensitive volt or amper range is the analog meter itself with its 50-100uA basic sensitivity.)

#2  If you do not have an analog meter at hand, you may use a digital multimeter that has a 2mA DC measuring range (most sensitive in general, some may have 200uA DC range as well) and also connect such DMM in series with the positive battery pole. (positive input of the current meter goes to the positive pole of the battery)

#3  If you have a DMM that has 200uV DC input voltage measurement range (very rare and such DMMs are expensive), then please place its input in parallel with the 10 Ohm (you may remove the wires going towards the Fluke, no need for them for that moment).  (positive input of the DMM goes to the positive pole of the battery, the negative input goes to the 10 Ohm resistor leg that continues towards the toroidal coil)

It is NOT interesting what the current amplitudes really measured with these alternative methods, it is the polarity check that would count.

I believe that unusual results should be checked manyfold to exclude any possibility for errors.  I want to help in this effort.

rgds, Gyula

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #445 on: April 01, 2010, 02:37:34 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #446 on: April 01, 2010, 03:50:45 PM »
We've only been using one end of the magnet.  The other end isn't being used
as shown by "Configuration A", in the below image.  "Configuration B" is using
both ends of the magnet by using two toroids.  "Configuration C1" is showing
2 gapped toroids for illustrative purposes only.  "Configuration C2" is showing the
same 2 gapped toroids in "C1" overlapping each other to make a Figure 8, with a
magnet connecting the two.  "Configuration B and C" could be using a dual coil for
both toroids, or a combination of dual and single coils.

GB

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #447 on: April 01, 2010, 04:11:33 PM »
Here's a patent based on "Configuration B", http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=378

Lee Valstad coil based on "Configuration C2" in my previous post forming a figure 8,
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Magnetic_monopole_-_new_experiment_corroborates_Quantum_Ring_Theory#Valstad_Coil

GB

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #448 on: April 01, 2010, 05:38:05 PM »
Hi Luc,

It is very interesting the negativ current draw increases as you go higher in frequency. 

This is a very unusual measurement result so that if you do not mind I would like to suggest some simple measuring methods to make sure whether we can really trust in the negative polarity sign you experience. Please postpone what I asked yesterday for testing (Q measurement of the toroidal cores).

Would you use your last setup again where you were at 17.36-18.12kHz frequency already and the currents were  -39 and -27uA.

Alternative measurement suggestions for testing the polarity change:

#1  If you happen to have a 100uA or 1mA analog meter or an analog multimeter that has DC mA measuring range that would be the best. You would connect such an analog meter in series with the battery positive pole.
(On certain analog multimeters the most sensitive volt or amper range is the analog meter itself with its 50-100uA basic sensitivity.)

#2  If you do not have an analog meter at hand, you may use a digital multimeter that has a 2mA DC measuring range (most sensitive in general, some may have 200uA DC range as well) and also connect such DMM in series with the positive battery pole. (positive input of the current meter goes to the positive pole of the battery)

#3  If you have a DMM that has 200uV DC input voltage measurement range (very rare and such DMMs are expensive), then please place its input in parallel with the 10 Ohm (you may remove the wires going towards the Fluke, no need for them for that moment).  (positive input of the DMM goes to the positive pole of the battery, the negative input goes to the 10 Ohm resistor leg that continues towards the toroidal coil)

It is NOT interesting what the current amplitudes really measured with these alternative methods, it is the polarity check that would count.

I believe that unusual results should be checked manyfold to exclude any possibility for errors.  I want to help in this effort.

rgds, Gyula

Hi Gyula,

I don't have an analogue meter. So I did the test you asked using a good quality DMM that has a DC 000.0uA resolution to measure the the amp and I used my Schlumberger 7150 plus to measure the voltage across the 10 Ohm resistor. It has a DC volt resolution of .000000dcv

The results are Minus -003.3uA on the current meter and Minus -.000337dcv on the voltage meter.

I don't quite understand why you want me to do this test since this is the exact setup of my capacitor bank meter (measuring the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor using my hi resolution meter)... but maybe you didn't understand that. Anyways, I did the setup as you asked to satisfy your request or remove any possible connection error.

Luc

ADDED

Something is not right with this test If I use the current meter at the same time as the voltage across the 10 Ohm resistor as this is not giving a true current reading. Did you want each test to be separate?

ADDED

Okay, maybe this is what you want. The current meter is in series between the battery + and the resistor.  So current meter red lead is connected to + of battery and the black lead is connected to the resistor. The voltage meter red lead is connected with the black lead of the current meter side of the resistor and the black lead is connected to the coil side of the resistor.

Results: -244.5uA on current meter and -.000244vdc on voltage meter

I think this is what you want ;)

Luc
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 06:15:01 PM by gotoluc »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #449 on: April 01, 2010, 06:47:01 PM »
Hi Gyula,

I don't have an analogue meter. So I did the test you asked using a good quality DMM that has a DC 000.0uA resolution to measure the the amp and I used my Schlumberger 7150 plus to measure the voltage across the 10 Ohm resistor. It has a DC volt resolution of .000000dcv

The results are Minus -003.3uA on the current meter and Minus -.000337dcv on the voltage meter.

I don't quite understand why you want me to do this test since this is the exact setup of my capacitor bank meter (measuring the voltage across a 10 Ohm resistor using my hi resolution meter)... but maybe you didn't understand that. Anyways, I did the setup as you asked to satisfy your request or remove any possible connection error.

Luc

ADDED

Something is not right with this test If I use the current meter at the same time as the voltage across the 10 Ohm resistor as this is not giving a true current reading. Did you want each test to be separate?

ADDED

Okay, maybe this is what you want. The current meter is in series between the battery + and the resistor.  So current meter red lead is connected to + of battery and the black lead is connected to the resistor. The voltage meter red lead is connected with the black lead of the current meter side of the resistor and the black lead is connected to the coil side of the resistor.

Results: -244.5uA on current meter and -.000244vdc on voltage meter

I think this is what you want ;)

Luc

Hi Luc,

Thanks for all the tests, I am even more puzzled now... and this is not a complaint of course  :)   :-\ 

Basically I meant to get rid of the hi res Fluke microvolt meter because I suspected its ground sees the computer grnd and the signal gen grnd and at the same time it has to measure a few microvolts amplitude floating on 12V DC  while the pulses has an increasing frequency: this may challange its common mode behavior and the sampling process inside it may suffer.

Well this is not case, so for the time being I have no explanation (of my own) for the negative polarity...

Thanks,  Gyula

 

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