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Author Topic: Self running coil?  (Read 258128 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Self running coil?
« on: March 13, 2010, 06:40:57 AM »
Hi everyone,

I have a new effect involving a ferrite toroid coil which is being pulsed at a very specific frequency, duty cycle and uses a permanent magnet with an air gap.

It seems to be self running once started and the source battery can be disconnected and the capacitor will maintain its charge and in fact gain energy.

I found this effect over a week ago and since then in my spare time have been trying to find what I could be overlooking. So far I have not found anything, so I invite anyone to comment as to what I may of missed.

The video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0AZkovLTT8

If the magnet is removed there is no effect

If the magnet has no air gap there is no effect

If the frequency is changed there is no effect

If I leave the battery connected it does not drain in voltage and actually seems to be charging the battery.

I have changed the mosfet with the same IRF640 and it is the same. I tried it with IRF840 and it works but not quite as good as the IRF640

The effect only seems to work at low voltage 2.80vdc is about the highest I got it to go so far.

Please feel free to share you comments or concerns.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Self running coil?
« on: March 13, 2010, 06:40:57 AM »

Offline mindcalm

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2010, 08:10:05 AM »
Hi All.
It's my first report.
I'm South Korean.
Thanks.


gotoluc, I have the same result. I was testing JNL Labs 2sg episod 9.
I build up 556 timer one 555 for frequency, another for duty cycle.
It needs 12V 15mA without any load.
Ferrite toroid I built  is  yellow one with bifiler 40 wind each. one coil is connected with diode and 20W Halogen Lamp.
When anothe coil is directly connected to Fet IRF840 drain and + source after 1ohm register.

Amphere read from 1 ohm register is about - 30mA.
Frq. was 2kHz - 100kHz duty cycle was lessthan 10% -60%.
the lamp was full bright. magnet, pulse width, frequency asr not so critical.   
But the Halogen lamp was off, the circuit needs 1.5-2.0 A almost fire up.

Thank gotoluc for your videos.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 09:16:51 AM by mindcalm »

Offline Omega_0

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 09:22:18 AM »

It seems to be self running once started and the source battery can be disconnected and the capacitor will maintain its charge and in fact gain energy.


gotoluc,

I'm a little bit confused and can't understand what exactly is "running" here.

I see no current flowing in the coil, which explains no discharge from the battery or the cap. The coil is essentially a open circuit ! Its not doing anything just sitting there. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Now why no current is flowing, reason could be a faulty mosfet, or the mosfet is not getting enough trigger. (IRF640 needs at least 2V at the gate to turn on).

Other reason could be some leakage from the huge black battery that you are using for timer, may be its spilling an opposite current or reserve biasing the mosfet. The noise of switching must be charging the cap a bit.

Of course, you may have something which is generating some energy, but its not clear from this video test. You should collect this extra energy somewhere else (in another load), so that the circuit does not appear permanently open.

Say you do that, and the current is no longer a flat line, then the difference in power consumed in the coil and that dumped in another load will tell you how much it is generating, if at all.

Good work, keep it up.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 09:22:18 AM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2010, 01:15:20 PM »
Hi everyone,

I have a new effect involving a ferrite toroid coil which is being pulsed at a very specific frequency, duty cycle and uses a permanent magnet with an air gap.

It seems to be self running once started and the source battery can be disconnected and the capacitor will maintain its charge and in fact gain energy.

I found this effect over a week ago and since then in my spare time have been trying to find what I could be overlooking. So far I have not found anything, so I invite anyone to comment as to what I may of missed.

The video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0AZkovLTT8

If the magnet is removed there is no effect

If the magnet has no air gap there is no effect

If the frequency is changed there is no effect

If I leave the battery connected it does not drain in voltage and actually seems to be charging the battery.

I have changed the mosfet with the same IRF640 and it is the same. I tried it with IRF840 and it works but not quite as good as the IRF640

The effect only seems to work at low voltage 2.80vdc is about the highest I got it to go so far.

Please feel free to share you comments or concerns.

Luc

A basic schematic for analysis would be great. Even just a block form presenting the coil current path and the switching current path, and how they are conected relative to each other.

I'm presuming (I don't like presuming.. LOL..) that the coil circuit and the signal circuit have independant current sources but share a common negative connection. Is that correct.??

Hopefully you're not just getting current leakage from the 555 circuit supply into the coil circuit supply via an internal body diode, or due to reverse peak voltage breakdown of the gate/source/sink junctions of the fet.

I think it's an interesting effect. If it can be made to translate into a higher output energy than the energy needed to run the 555 timer circuit then it's a winner.

Let's hope the effect cannot be attributed to your scope/meter connections adding current via the measurement instruments supply, or cross circuit leakage as previously mentioned.

Good luck. keep on keepin on

hoping for more info... cheers

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 01:39:01 PM »
Hi Luc,

I mainly agree with Omega_0 comments (EDIT: and with hoptoad too  :)  )

My notices:

1) Is not a 10 x multiplier missing from the gate-source voltage probe setting, is it really only 1V peak pulse amplitude from the 555 output to drive the FET?  The battery gives 12V to the 555 timer?
If it is 1V only then your FET cannot really switch fully on. (Its threshold VGS voltage (IRF640) starts from about 2V but may go up to 4V due to manufacturing tolerances).  This would explain why there is no current taken at the rest of the FET's ON-time while the Drain-Source path ought to be a near short circuit.

2) Would you mind measuring the toroid coil's inductance now that the magnets bias it?  (Do not change the distance (air gap) setting when measuring, just unconnect the red and green clips and measure with the L meter the series coils. 
I know you mentioned the toroid coils in series are over 1000mH i.e. 1 Henry without the magnets, right?

3) When you disconnect the battery and the voltage across the capacitor starts increasing, it shows there is no any real current through the coil: if it were, the voltage would be consumed from the 60uF capacitor in no time.
I think you created a resonant circuit at the output side of the FET, and the leaking needle pulses from the FET's gate-drain body capacitance pumps energy into the resonant circuit, the FET body diode rectifies it and this energy gets stored in the 60uF cap.
(By the way, is it really a 57.61uF capacitor? What is its tolarance, 5% or less? (What does "PROTECTED" mean? Very strange for me for a electrolytic capacitor such a value.  :) )

Thanks, Gyula
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 02:03:49 PM by gyulasun »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2010, 01:39:01 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2010, 01:58:40 PM »
Hi All.
It's my first report.
I'm South Korean.
Thanks.


gotoluc, I have the same result. I was testing JNL Labs 2sg episod 9.
I build up 556 timer one 555 for frequency, another for duty cycle.
It needs 12V 15mA without any load.
Ferrite toroid I built  is  yellow one with bifiler 40 wind each. one coil is connected with diode and 20W Halogen Lamp.
When anothe coil is directly connected to Fet IRF840 drain and + source after 1ohm register.

Amphere read from 1 ohm register is about - 30mA.
Frq. was 2kHz - 100kHz duty cycle was lessthan 10% -60%.
the lamp was full bright. magnet, pulse width, frequency asr not so critical.   
But the Halogen lamp was off, the circuit needs 1.5-2.0 A almost fire up.

Thank gotoluc for your videos.

Hi mindcalm,

Welcome to the forum!

Maybe you are aware of the CMOS version of the 556 dual timer, it is the TLC556, see here: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc556.pdf 
It is fully compatible with the old 556 but has a much less current consumption without any load (about less than 1mA or so from 12V).

Would like to know what is the DC voltage across the Halogen lamp when it is fully bright and its current is about 30mA?  Or I misundertand?

rgds,  Gyula

EDIT: There is the LMC555 from National Semiconductor it is the CMOS version of the old 555, you would two from it, see here:
http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LMC555.html#Overview 

Offline Omega_0

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 04:23:17 PM »

1) Is not a 10 x multiplier missing from the gate-source voltage probe setting, is it really only 1V peak pulse amplitude from the 555 output to drive the FET?  The battery gives 12V to the 555 timer?
If it is 1V only then your FET cannot really switch fully on.


In fact you are correct. I saw the video again and the upper trace is 1V only. The scope setting also shows 1V/div. So the fet is not conducting, most probably.

Gotoluc should replace the coil with another 1 ohm resistor and check the current again to rule out the fet issue.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 04:23:17 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2010, 08:01:15 PM »
gotoluc - nice work and well done vid.  I find it fascinating as I've been thinking about something along this very line also.  I think you may be onto something and even if some of the effects mentioned by others here seem to come into play I wouldn't give up on it.  The best thing would be if you can use a voltage multiplier to boost it's output high enough to run the timer circuit and make the system a closed loop.  Nice work!

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 08:23:41 PM »
Hi all,

thanks for your interest.

Many of the posted concerns have been tested prior to starting this topic. However to satisfy these questions and doubts I made a new video as I know it is had to believe that you can pulse a coil and more energy seems to come back. It took me over a week of testing different things after I found this effect to try to find what I could be overlooking but came up with nothing yet.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvlsNZJQ3gQ

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2010, 08:23:41 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 08:31:43 PM »
Hey Luc
If you could show a circuit of this it would be more clear as to what is going on.
You may just have something. The bat was just reinforcing the cap, as you intended, but once the cap is charged from the bat, from what you are showing, the bat is impeding the buildup on the cap.
Need a circuit to get a real grip.
Very good work

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 08:58:01 PM »
Luc,

      Would it be possible for you to take some calorimetric readings? Cooling is an effect of the charge discharge, mag demag electric generation process described by Nicolay E. Zaev. JLN's preliminary measurements indicate the heat from joule loss in the his coil inductor is balanced by the cooling from the demag phase, resulting in an ambient temperature stability. Therefore, if your coil is not heating up, it indicates cooling and generation of electric power from work performed by the toroid material to reorder electron spin on the quantum level. By the way, what is your toroid material? 

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 08:58:01 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 09:49:06 PM »
 My guess would be he is making the cores ability to change field harder for the pulses from the coil, by having the magnet influence the cores field potential continuously. The magnet tightens the strings on the core guitar. So this tension will have a resonant freq at which if we pulse the coil with small pulses, we should get ring around the rosy, and the capacitor will get a pocket full of posies.   

If what Luc has going is the real deal, just the experience of understanding it, will open doors to understanding in other things. We can make resonators and wind a no. of coils and  yada yada yada,  but to have a self runner sitting in front of you, imagine the ambition to expand on that seed.
The crazy thing is, you just need to tune the core tension, with a magnet. That is how the freq of operation will be determined, maybe,  and of course by the size and type of core. Just plucking the flux guitar.

Luc, if you move the magnet further away, try lowering the freq as you do, to see if the operating freq of the effect changes. Im thinking that the stronger and closer the magnet to the core, the higher freq of resonance.  Is your freq band of this operation tight or loose?  Or does the freq stay the same whether the mag is near or far, and the distance just determines how high the voltage gets on the cap, at that freq? Just somethings to try 

Its  magnet infused core is the same thing, just different geometry.  I suppose the size of the core and what it is made of will determine how fast the flux change happens, there by influencing the freq of operation also.

This is good stuff.

Mags

Offline penno64

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 09:52:36 PM »
Great work Luc,

Hope you have found a winner.

A question if I may -

Does this effect only occur with your specially wound, two half, coil. Would one get a similar result from say a bifilar wound coil ?

Regards, Penno

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 10:09:40 PM »
Hi all,

another update.

I believe when the Toroids magnet and pulse Frequency perimeters are all set right the Toroid coil goes into Resonance. Since connecting my probe or bringing any ferromagnetic material close by the Toroid has a negative effect (becomes out of tune).

I tried collecting Flyback and it is possible, however when I do the math it all comes to the same. What I mean is, the flyback energy you collect is that much less going back to the source capacitor.

I made a new video to further explain the the importance of the Frequency, Duty Cycle and mostly the Permanent magnet that without it there is no Frequency I ever found that will create this effect.


If we think about it ::)...  I only remove the magnet from the toroid coil and it starts to use current, so how can the energy that was going back to the source of been coming from the MOSFET gate pulse and now suddenly stop???

New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fb5FOfme1g

I'll answer specific questions soon.

Luc

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self running coil?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 10:11:56 PM »
Hi Luc,

Thanks for your explanations in the second video.

Now my understanding on your circuit is that the MOSFET output capacitance (CDS and the 44.6mH toroidal coil forms a parallel resonant circuit at 18.8kHz.  How?
See the data sheet for your IRF640: http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf640n.pdf

See Fig. 5 in Page 4, and the output capacitance curve, Coss, shows about 1500-1600pF at 1V drain-source voltage (taken at VGS=0V).
And if you calculate the C value from the 18.8kHz resonant frequency using  the 44.6mH toroid coil value, you get 1.61nF capacitor value! (I used this online calculator: http://www.whatcircuits.com/lc-resonance-frequency-calculator/ )

This explains why the distance of the magnets from the core is so precisely needed to adjust: you simply change and fine tune the toroidal inductance for the best value for getting the highest output voltage which can occur at the highest impedance a parallel LC circuit provides. No resonance=no max output. The drastic change in the output capacitance also explains why you find the "effect" works at no higher than 2.8V DC: the capacitance gets reduced under the 1000pF values and the LC circuit impedance becomes lower and lower. You seem to nicely finetune the output circuit for most favorable match of the components that ensures the highest possible output.

The battery surely limits the rising of the capacitor voltage and there must be some charging current also flowing into the battery from the cap.

The phenomena of your needing to place the battery back into the circuit to get the "effect" again (after that the cap was fully discharged) is explained by also the 'wrong' value of the output capacitance at zero drain-source value: it simply much higher than 1.6nF and the battery voltage brings it within range.  (Just check your unused IRF640 drain source output capacitance in itself, not connected anywhere but to a C meter if you have one, first short circuit the gate-source pins with a piece of wire to really switch it off because the higher than 1nF gate-source input cap likes to store voltage for a longer time.)

There remains to explain your flat current trace during the ON time of the FET but unfortunately I cannot give a correct explanation yet. One possibility:
I think the mistery "flat current" trace of mainly zero value is not really zero but its average value is much smaller than for instance in the case of the 10 Ohm resistor. Because the FET switched output resistance looks like to be higher than 10 Ohm due to the low duty cycle drive it receives at the gate-source input.  I know this does not fully explain it though, will be thinking on it. And others here are kindly invited to share their thoughts.

rgds, Gyula

 

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