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Author Topic: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor  (Read 666201 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #285 on: April 11, 2013, 12:25:12 AM »
Chet:

I agree with you that you can do tests with the same propeller prop.  It looks like a prop for a very large scale model airplane.  Without the manufacturer and part number though, you can't do much.  I doubt Sterling will get that information off of Yildiz.

The claim by Yildiz that the fan load for the demo at the Geneva Inventor's Expo would be 380 watts is clearly a huge in-your-face lie.  Why does the free energy community accept this junk all the time?  That's a rhetorical question.  Sterling can be so "disconnected" sometimes.

Today was a bust.  The rest of the show doesn't matter anymore, the fan load is not expected to change.  So we are left in shiny happy land for the next few days.  Perhaps somebody in the next booth over has a good deal on crystals???

MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #285 on: April 11, 2013, 12:25:12 AM »

Online ramset

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #286 on: April 11, 2013, 01:51:00 AM »
MH
Anything that we can do at this point to qualify that blades load value will go a long way towards
explaining "the rest of the story".........


thx
Chet 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #287 on: April 11, 2013, 02:00:48 AM »
Chet:

Thee is nothing to explain.  By my eyeball the mechanical load of the fan is somewhere in the region of five watts or less.  The numbers have already been crunched on PESN.  Lithium-ion batteries if placed inside that motor chassis could power a 5-watt load for weeks and weeks.

MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #287 on: April 11, 2013, 02:00:48 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #288 on: April 11, 2013, 03:17:33 AM »
Yup.

BTW MH the method I outlined is perfectly valid and has been used by "professionals" to determine the power dissipation of model airplane propellers. I can't find the original scholarly paper on the topic right now, but while searching I found these other documents that might be of interest.

http://www.peninsulasilentflyers.com/sites/peninsulasilentflyers.com/files/documents/Tom_Hunt_prop_info.pdf
That one is a powerpoint slideshow that talks about propeller parameters and how to calculate some of them, roughly.

http://dc-rc.org/pdf/Model%20Propellers%20Article.pdf
That one has more than anyone might reasonably expect to need. Starting at around Page 8, you will find the necessary formulae to make a very intelligent "guess" at the power necessary to turn that prop of Yildiz's.

I'd say 5 or ten Watts at 2600 RPM isn't too out of line. It certainly does NOT take half-a-horsepower to do it.

ETA: I just checked the specs for a TRex 450, a popular electric heli design. It is supposed to draw 8 amps from an 11.4 volt LiPo when hovering. So it's making enough thrust to offset its nearly 1 kg weight, turning a tail rotor thru a belt-drive system, powering a radio and 4 servos, and spinning a 690 mm diameter rotor disc at 2200 rpm. All on a bit over 90 Watts.
Yildiz's prop is at most 300 mm, probably more like 250 mm.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #289 on: April 11, 2013, 03:40:22 AM »
TK:

You are right, I hadn't thought about the whole panorama of research into propellers, and measurements on propellers.  I still have to remind myself that they use electric motors these days.  I only ever fantasized about RC planes.

It's still "fun" to think about using scales though.  When I get reincarnated as Richie Rich I will have a big lab with all the fun stuff and I will invite Dot over.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #289 on: April 11, 2013, 03:40:22 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #290 on: April 11, 2013, 06:52:01 AM »
the important question is what kind of physics are behind the motor action if not a scam.its either a violation of 1st law thermodynamics or 2nd law thermodynamics.im going to rule out a 1st law violation and go with the 2nd and say its some kind of assymetry in the isothermal magnetic cycle of events.a part of the magnets must be cooling down and sucking in ambient heat here.
Profitis-If the Yildiz magnet motor actualy worked as claimed,you will find that it is not breaking any laws of physic's as set by nature-only those that man has set sofar.These law's of physics set by man are far from absolute,but only what he knows today to be true.

Offline tinman

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #291 on: April 11, 2013, 07:51:31 AM »
It is not difficult to measure how many watts or HP it take's to spin a fan blade or propeller.The first thing to remember is that a fan and a propeller are two very different thing's,and opperate in different way's.A propeller is designed to produce thrust,while a fan is designed to move volume(a boat prop is a mixture of both)
The second thing to remember is the difference between a static test and a dynamice test.A static test cannot give you a watts or HP result-as nothing is moving.To obtain a watt or HP figure for a given amount of revolution's,we have to do a static/ dynamic test.

As we cant go chasing the prime mover around the lab trying to calculate speed,we need to measure wind speed only.To do this you will need a wind tunnel in which the fan blade fits into.You will also need a wind speed meter and a small set of digital scale's.The fan must fit within the wind tunnel tube with no more than a 2% gap of that of the fan diameter.The wind tunnel (round tube)must also have difuser plates to stop wind vortices forming inside the tunnel.You will also need a 1 inch square plate fixed to a knife edged arm,which has a center pivot fixed to the outer side of the wind tunnel tube.This will give you a 1 to 1 fulcrum on which your scales are attached to.You now have a means to measure wind speed and pounds per square inch of force inside the wind tunnel.This can then be calculated to watts or HP being produced by your fan blade.Once you have this and you know the rpm of your fan blade,you then have a set figure of how much watts or HP your fan blade is producing at a given rpm.If you know the watts that your motor is outputing and you now have your watts of output from your fan,you can now calculate the % of slip from your fan.You will also now know how many watts of power it take's to propell 1 square inch of a rigid material threw the air at the given wind speed in the tunnel-providing air density is the same on all test.This is done by deviding your watt output from your fan by the square inches of your wind tunnel.

Please note that the above method is for a fixed prime mover,and the fan rpm must be 20% under cavitational speed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #291 on: April 11, 2013, 07:51:31 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #292 on: April 11, 2013, 11:04:56 AM »
Quote from TK:
 
 
"I'd say 5 or ten Watts at 2600 RPM isn't too out of line. It certainly does NOT take half-a-horsepower to do it."
 
 
I read that Yildiz tried to bring a third larger demonstration model that delivered the 1/2 h.p. with him, but the Turkish Patent Office apparently prevented him from crossing the border with it.

Online ramset

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #293 on: April 11, 2013, 01:19:06 PM »
Or we could get a manufacturer and part number off of the blade and have the info needed in mere moments.
I doubt Blade wittling is one of Yildiz skills, Being secretive in regards to the blade would be a very poor move on his part, seeing as how it is the only way he can validate his power claim ,the blade specs should be posted on the plexi box he has it all mounted in.[obviously he's not a good "trade show Man".


While some may be unaware of this loading method [propellers] few things have been researched
and tested as much as aircraft propellers .


I do like the @TinMans Tunnel tester tho ,and he points out a very big issue ..the Yildiz device that I have seen before was the Motor mounted up against a tube ,with the drive blade inside which in turn moved air thru another drive blade mounted to a small generator.........


That will definitely apply more load than the Prop in free air,and is the reason those tube measurements would be required for a good  Control .


but once again ,all that info [load calibration and test lab certification]should be posted on a little info card on the front of the demmo!


very poor show man and marketer .....


Ths
Chet











Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #293 on: April 11, 2013, 01:19:06 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #294 on: April 11, 2013, 01:43:06 PM »
The propeller is a standard 16x10 electric airplane tractor propeller.
Quote
On April 02, 2013 5:23 AM [MDT], Halil wrote:
 <blockquote>Sorry that I cannot get out of the bed, because of having 39 degrees of fever for 2 days.
 I called YILDIZ and got the info :
The motors have a diameter of approximately 35-40 cm
 The shaft is 45 cm long, 17 mm thick
 The propeller stays 5-10 cm far from the motor’s face
 The propeller has a diameter of 40,6 cm
 The codes on the propeller are as follows : 406×254, 16×10
I hope this info can help you. The propeller is just a simple one. There is no further info on it.
 There may be also other propellers that are suitable to be found at the air model shops. But I don’t know the way to mount them on the shaft.</blockquote> On April 02, 2013 2:25 PM [MST] Halil added:
 <blockquote>I think, it’s this one : http://www.zkauf.de/apc-luftschraube-16-x-10-elektro-propeller-406-x-254-in-cm-e160824977061.html</blockquote> I asked him to give us info on the number of blades, their pitch, and ideally the manufacturer, make, model. A photo would be nice, too. [I've asked him to confirm that the above link is the actual blade.]
April 3, 2013; 7:40 am update: Halil sent an email last night saying that that link above is indeed the same blade he will be using.
From
http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2013/03/31/816/brainstorm-publish-yildiz-test-propeller-specs/
Looking at the photos, it appears that the prop on the demo "continuously non-running motor"  is indeed a 16 inch prop. Of course it's not possible to tell the pitch... but 16x10 is very common.

And we know how to calculate the power required to turn a standard model airplane propeller don't we?
http://www.stefanv.com/rcstuff/qf200203.html

Quote
Both pitch and diameter affect how much output power the motor must produce to turn the propeller at a given rpm. The following equation shows the relationship between motor output power (also called shaft power, or propeller input power), rpm, pitch, and diameter:

power = k * rpm^3 * diameter^4  * pitch

The factor k depends on the units used to express power, pitch, and diameter, and also on characteristics of the propeller such as the airfoil it uses, its overall shape, thickness, and so on. For power in Watts, and diameter and pitch in inches, k is about 5.3×10^-15 for an average model airplane propeller.

Well? At 2600 RPM, how much power does it take to turn that propeller? Half a horsepower? Or .... somewhat less.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #295 on: April 11, 2013, 01:47:51 PM »
Quote from TK:
 
 
"I'd say 5 or ten Watts at 2600 RPM isn't too out of line. It certainly does NOT take half-a-horsepower to do it."
 
 
I read that Yildiz tried to bring a third larger demonstration model that delivered the 1/2 h.p. with him, but the Turkish Patent Office apparently prevented him from crossing the border with it.
Sure. They were the ones that arranged for his trip and provided the money for it, but they wouldn't let him take a working demo model across the border. Happens all the time. At least with "free energy" devices... they do not travel well. Not even from Dublin to London, much less from Turkey to Geneva.

Yildiz has claimed that the very motor that is present and in use at the demonstration is capable of 38 horsepower, or some horseshite like that, and that it dissipates 380 Watts turning the other, multibladed fan that is now apparently on the smaller .... not allowed to be run because it will self-destruct ... motor.



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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #295 on: April 11, 2013, 01:47:51 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #296 on: April 11, 2013, 01:49:23 PM »
@tinman.obviously it doesnt break any laws of nature,otherwize it wouldnt work however it certainly violates man,s current understanding of the 2nd law thermodynamics which says ambient heat cannot be put to useful work without extra losses.a part of that motor is gona be cooling down inside.someone should take a infrared photo of this right now to confirm this.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #297 on: April 11, 2013, 01:55:13 PM »
TK:

You are right, I hadn't thought about the whole panorama of research into propellers, and measurements on propellers.  I still have to remind myself that they use electric motors these days.  I only ever fantasized about RC planes.

It's still "fun" to think about using scales though.  When I get reincarnated as Richie Rich I will have a big lab with all the fun stuff and I will invite Dot over.

MileHigh

Electric airplanes and digital photography.... they have changed my hobby life completely. What a mess an .049 diesel glowplug wood and tissue airplane was to fly, what a hassle film developing was...... now, it's all high-tech foam, carbon fiber and electrics, megapixels and compact flash, leaving much more time to spend surfing the internest!

(My favorite electric 'airplane' is my WildRC Mini-IFO. It is an absolute hoot to fly and just about indestructable. )

Offline tinman

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #298 on: April 11, 2013, 01:57:48 PM »
I find it quite amazing that they seem to run at home for years at a time,but when at a public show they dont even run for a day without something going wrong.This seems to be the norm for all so called OU devices when it comes to public viewings or test.

Offline Bertoa

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #299 on: April 11, 2013, 01:58:27 PM »
Yildiz' All-Magnet Motor at the Inventors Expo in Geneva is not functioning right. I know something would happen to 'disturb' the 5 day continous running. This validation is not going to happen. The list of fraudy FE inventors will become longer by Yildiz contribution. Do we have to go on with giving attention to his 'invention'? I did know something was going wrong with this.

 

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