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Author Topic: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor  (Read 671284 times)

Offline CazadorDeTruchos

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #270 on: April 07, 2013, 06:14:02 PM »
Yildiz Motor 30-Day University Test Pending in GENEVA from April 10-14, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkndsuakDzo

The motor is always shown turning a "LIGHT FAN" at a high speed!

Sound to us exactly like Muammer Yildiz want to keep this show for ever ... he did not want to validate or produce any real product.

Let him do "FAN demo", but it will be a sideshow to this test.

I see a video where one of this motor was running a little car (nothing more than a go-kart) so the bearings should work well to run a generator, a Prony brake or a centrifugal water pump. It is cheap, easy and less loss and no guessing on power output.

Use a flexible coupling which tolerates mis-alignment of shafts. Or even use a magnetic coupling if you don't like that.

The statement about the “difficulty of retrofitting” new bearings on the shaft of the motor is simply not credible, like many other statements.

This eliminates all the vagaries of estimating aerodynamic work, sidestepping that whole controversy, otherwise this will turn into the usual fiasco.

This is a fairly accurate way to calculate motor output!!

What do you think?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 09:15:53 PM by CazadorDeTruchos »

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #270 on: April 07, 2013, 06:14:02 PM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #271 on: April 07, 2013, 08:42:25 PM »
There has been an ongoing discussion on PESN about the upcoming demo and the lack of credibility of the comments coming from the Yildiz team.  Sterling for some strange reason never wants to use his common sense and object to the suspicious and not-credible statements being made by Yildiz and his associates.

It looks like the demo will be done with a fan.  Mark E. proposed a very good improvised dynamometer test using two bathroom scales, a measuring tape, a tachometer, and two aluminum rails to support the motor on top of the bathroom scales.  We are asking Sterling to do this test, even if he has to do it himself.

If this test actually gets done at the show the assumption is that the measured mechanical output power of the motor when driving the supposedly new and larger fan will be 30 watts or less.  That means that if there are Lithium-Ion batteries hidden inside the motor, then there would be more than enough energy to drive the motor for weeks and weeks.

Assuming the above happens, then the show will be inconclusive and the Yildiz team will be back to where they started - allegations that they have an all-magnet magnet motor with no proof.

If you read PESN you will see that there are many borderline-ridiculous statements being made by the Yildiz team in an attempt to avoid doing a credible and definitive test at the upcoming Geneva Inventor's Expo.  For example, the Yildiz team is claiming that the mechanical load of the new fan on the motor will be 380 watts.  They are also stating that the bearings are "too weak" for the motor to drive a decent-sized load of a few hundred watts.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #272 on: April 07, 2013, 09:42:09 PM »
Here is an excellent diagram by Mark Euthanasius, a regular poster on PESN, on how to make the toque measurement on the Yildiz motor when it is driving a fan.

Once you know the torque in Newton-meters you simply measure the angular velocity of the fan with an optical tachometer to get the angular velocity in radians per second.

The mechanical power required to drive the fan in watts is then simply the torque times the angular velocity.

MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #272 on: April 07, 2013, 09:42:09 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #273 on: April 08, 2013, 11:44:02 PM »
Here is an updated drawing.  The formulas remain the same.  The change is that the indicator for the angle theta is now in the correct place.

Offline CazadorDeTruchos

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #274 on: April 09, 2013, 05:00:21 AM »
Sterling Allan,  travels to GENEVA through the efforts of hundreds of volunteers who paid for his trip and stay (i am one).

Now, he is in Switzerland (or France). It´s Ok.

If you see the video travel, Allan think that is in paid vacations. Looks to us like a Hollywood star on the red carpet. Bravo!

Meanwhile, no power measured, no torque measured, no RPM measured. Sterling is in the summer time?.

Why do you traveled to Geneva Sterling? For eat and drink with YILDIZ?

Please, somebody of PES or Overunity talk to him!!

Please, please, don’t waste this opportunity Sterling Allan. We’re all counting on you!

Let YILDIZ to do his "FAN DEMO FOR EVER", but you do your job!.

I'm in error? Or am I asking too much?

Best whishes for all.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #274 on: April 09, 2013, 05:00:21 AM »
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Offline CazadorDeTruchos

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #275 on: April 09, 2013, 05:01:59 AM »
Sterling Allan,  travels to GENEVA through the efforts of hundreds of volunteers who paid for his trip and stay (i am one).

Now, he is in Switzerland (or France) . It´s Ok.

If you see the video travel, Allan think that is in paid vacations. Looks to us like a Hollywood star on the red carpet. Bravo!

Meanwhile, no power measured, no torque measured, no RPM measured. Sterling is in the summer time?.

Why do you traveled to Geneva Sterling? For eat and drink with YILDIZ?

Please, somebody of PES or Overunity talk to him!!

Please, please, don’t waste this opportunity Sterling Allan. We’re all counting on you!

Let YILDIZ to do his "FAN DEMO FOR EVER", but you do your job!.

I'm in error? Or am I asking too much?

Best whishes for all.

Offline ramset

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #276 on: April 09, 2013, 02:00:47 PM »
Silly silly boyz...........
 
enough of this silliness.... one of you fellows ask  "Sterlinga" for the  blade part number.
The tinMan uses blades all the time for a torque load.as a matter of fact they're very good for this. [provided you stay in spec [no cavitation]


MH Keep your bathroom scales and personal hygiene products ,.......you time the run... you get the RPM


get us a  duplicate blade or part #  some "tube" dimensions and Ambient temp  [humidity would be nice too]at time of test ~ We'll do the rest [Its called a "control"]


END OF STORY!!
Thx
Chetkremens@gmail.com


Edit reason : added a "Ster" and removed a "stupid"~
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:17:37 PM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #276 on: April 09, 2013, 02:00:47 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #277 on: April 09, 2013, 03:53:39 PM »
Quote
get us a  duplicate blade or part #  some "tube" dimensions and Ambient temp  [humidity would be nice too]at time of test ~ We'll do the rest [Its called a "control"]

And do precisely what Chet?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #278 on: April 09, 2013, 09:50:31 PM »
Silly silly boyz...........
 
enough of this silliness.... one of you fellows ask  "Sterlinga" for the  blade part number.
The tinMan uses blades all the time for a torque load.as a matter of fact they're very good for this. [provided you stay in spec [no cavitation]


MH Keep your bathroom scales and personal hygiene products ,.......you time the run... you get the RPM


get us a  duplicate blade or part #  some "tube" dimensions and Ambient temp  [humidity would be nice too]at time of test ~ We'll do the rest [Its called a "control"]


END OF STORY!!
Thx
Chetkremens@gmail.com


Edit reason : added a "Ster" and removed a "stupid"~

Agreed. A properly used and characterised propeller or fan blade is perfectly legitimate as a load, and can even give a linear power "curve" with RPM within its range. However it needs to be properly mounted, and of course calibrated by spinning it with a "known underunity" motor whose power consumption can be accurately monitored.

The part number of the propeller that Yildiz is using might not be helpful, for a couple of reasons. First, we have no assurance that the prop hasn't been altered from its original specs, and second.... the silly thing doesn't actually look to me like a fan blade or propeller at all, it looks more like a "mode stirrer" from an old microwave oven, that is designed to reflect microwaves around for even cooking.... and is spun by a little gearmotor that goes about 50 or 60 rpm. It's not even designed to be aerodynamic.

Of course even such a blade could be used as an aerodynamic load _as long as it is calibrated_ by running it from a known motor dissipating a known amount of power. (run the calibration motor with no load at a certain RPM and record its power consumption. Add the blade and run to the same rpm, record data. The difference will be the power dissipation at that RPM of the blade alone. Then move your blade to the motor under test and run to the same RPM.... and you will know how much power your DUT is providing to the shaft. Of course you may not have control of the RPM of the DUT, so you will need to prepare a calibration nomograph using several different RPM values from your calibration motor system.

EDITED to add the example pic below. This is _not_ a fan blade! It's the microwave reflective stirrer from an antique MW oven, along with its little motor, showing its 50 RPM rotation speed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #278 on: April 09, 2013, 09:50:31 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #279 on: April 09, 2013, 09:58:47 PM »
Tell Sterlinga
there's a 100 bucks on the table if he comes back with the test Blade,
and we'll return it when finished [both blades would be nice actually]


If he won't go for that take some tissue paper and Hair spray [spikey hair  mousse would work also]
and make an impression of one blade or as much of the fan  as he will allow!
[50 bucks for that!!]

And Yes TK you have almost perfectly outlined the Control procedure !
Thx
Chet

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #280 on: April 10, 2013, 01:09:34 AM »
 
I just can't understand why Mr. Yildiz keeps returning year after year with this same little motor.
 
He doesn't act as a genuine inventor, anyone technically skilled would have kept improving the prototype from year to year.
 
If I knew how to create rotational torque with permanent magnets, I would immediately have stepped up in prototype size.
Stepping up in size is absolutely essential, since it will once and for all get rid of all the suspicion created by that little box of his.

The step from 35 watts to 35 kilowatts or even 35 thousand kilowatts is no big challenge for a mechanical invention,  just scale it up with bigger parts.
 
And this repeated response that the bearings of the shaft does not allow for torque tests! Give me a brake.
 
What is this guy waiting for?!
With an invention like this, getting together a few hundred thousand dollars would not be a problem. Nothing would have stopped me.

I would have started a small powerplant locally, becoming an energy distributor known for my strange engine.
That would propel the whole thing into the mainstream media and the rest would be part of the history books.
 
But instead we have this strange little man with his little box appearing here and there, but never letting anyone come to close....

As far as I am concerned, the whole story smells funny.

Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #280 on: April 10, 2013, 01:09:34 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #281 on: April 10, 2013, 02:08:55 AM »
TK:

Quote
Of course even such a blade could be used as an aerodynamic load _as long as it is calibrated_ by running it from a known motor dissipating a known amount of power. (run the calibration motor with no load at a certain RPM and record its power consumption. Add the blade and run to the same rpm, record data. The difference will be the power dissipation at that RPM of the blade alone. Then move your blade to the motor under test and run to the same RPM.... and you will know how much power your DUT is providing to the shaft. Of course you may not have control of the RPM of the DUT, so you will need to prepare a calibration nomograph using several different RPM values from your calibration motor system.

I have real reservations about this and I don't think it's correct.  You know how much power the motor draws at the test RPM with no fan.  Let's call that the "overhead_power."  When you add the fan load, you will get an increased electrical power draw at the test RPM.  Let's call the increased load the "extra_power."  That still does not tell you about the incremental changes in the power mix as you slowly add an increasing mechanical load.  The only thing that you know is that the power draw increases to the overhead_power plus the extra_power.

The actual mechanical power required to turn the fan is not necessarily equal to the extra_power.  You don't really know where the split is between the true waste heat power and the true mechanical fan power.  For example, the bearings go from seeing no mechanical load to seeing a mechanical load.  The fan is imparting an axial pull on the bearings and there are other random disturbance stresses on the bearings.  That may affect the burn-off power rate in the bearings and that is a total unknown.

You can also look at it like this: If you want to measure the mechanical power from the fan at the test RPM - then measure the actual _mechanical_ power draw from the fan itself - don't mess with making electrical measurements.

The best thing is the bathroom balance test.  Somebody posted that for a few extra dollars you can get bathroom scales with a resolution of 0.01 Kg - 10 grams.  It's not super fine resolution but it will work.  It's a _real_ dynamometer test on the actual device under test with the actual fan load.  When the closing bell for the show happens, you could still be streaming live on the Internet.  It would take less than 15 minutes to set it up and record all of the data.

MileHigh

Offline ramset

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #282 on: April 10, 2013, 03:15:30 PM »
MH
The fact is, regardless of anything else the blade Load can be calculated from any high school text book,in the USA.
and from most 3rd grade school books in China........


Maybe Kindergarten books in Germany ??


MH
its not a perfect world ,asking Weights and measures to come to Geneva to Calibrate a few "walmart"scales and then getting a letter of indemnity from Loyds of London for a Liability Umbrella ?


Its just too Busy.........
Hollywood even!!?


Blade specs will tell the tale with a few other data points.
No fuss No muss!!


thx
Chet




Offline profitis

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #283 on: April 10, 2013, 04:12:06 PM »
the important question is what kind of physics are behind the motor action if not a scam.its either a violation of 1st law thermodynamics or 2nd law thermodynamics.im going to rule out a 1st law violation and go with the 2nd and say its some kind of assymetry in the isothermal magnetic cycle of events.a part of the magnets must be cooling down and sucking in ambient heat here.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Muammer Yildiz Magnet Motor
« Reply #284 on: April 10, 2013, 06:11:17 PM »
Compare this Halbach circle with the spoked wedges of Yildiz's stator:

 

OneLink