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Author Topic: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work  (Read 87730 times)

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2010, 02:23:40 AM »
Got the smaller rotor in, which fits the toroid shape closely, and tested. With the same 10 ohm load, the wave looks better and the voltage and amperage has improved.

I believe these results can be improved with a smaller air gap. It is currently at 3 MM but it needs a much sturdier toroid support to reduce it further. I'll look into building a better support unit.

Also, LC meter has been ordered.

Regards, Larry   
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 03:50:27 AM by LarryC »

hartiberlin

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2010, 12:40:27 AM »
Hi Larry,
looks nice.
Are these waveforms already after the Full Wave rectifier graetz bridge ?

Did you try to power a load with it yet ?
Can you put a large electrolytic cap behind the graetz bridge and power
a lamp with it and compare input power into a motor to turn it to output DC power ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2010, 02:44:36 AM »
Quote from: hartiberlin link=topic=8852.msg236258#msg236258 A=1270420827
Are these waveforms already after the Full Wave rectifier graetz bridge ?

Did you try to power a load with it yet ?
Can you put a large electrolytic cap behind the graetz bridge and power
a lamp with it and compare input power into a motor to turn it to output DC power ?

Hi Stefan,

The waveforms shown is across a 10 Ohm resistive load only, no bridge.

I will try your your test tomorrow, but please note in the shot with the data display that the Vrms is 2.56 (middle column, second row) and it has proved pretty accurate in the past. So that along with the 10 Ohm load gives a good idea of the output.

You have stated previously that with my small setup that I would be losing about 10 watts. I agree, but since I only had these parts available, I continued on to see how best to optimize.

But for those who wish to do further testing without a lathe to make the Lafonte group rotor, check out this diametrically magnetized cylinder magnets at  http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_133&products_id=652

Regards, Larry

hartiberlin

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2010, 04:10:55 AM »
Okay, I see, with a RMS-Voltage of 2.56 Volts and 10 Ohms
you have about 0.65 Watts output at the 10 Ohms resistor
and your power input was 26 Watts with the load and 20 Watts without the load ?

Hmm,
so you have probably many magnetic losses there.
Could you please show the coils and the rotor ?
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

EMdevices

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2010, 05:59:34 PM »
@Butch

You tried the switcher as a motor and you did not see any torque?     I hope you realize that you won't see a torque except when the angle theta is close to zero, in my drawing below.   Did you try it in this configuration?   

EM

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2010, 06:12:45 PM »
[A author=hartiberlin link=topic=8852.msg236281#msg236281 date=1270433455]
so you have probably many magnetic losses there.
Could you please show the coils and the rotor ?
[/quote]

In the first picture the H shaped transformer is backed away from the toroid and the toroid slits can be seen. Both surfaces have been planed down to make a tight fit when placed together.

The second pictures shows the 1" diameter neos.

I did notice that the clogging at the slits, which is very slight normally, is stronger when the H transformer is backed away.

Regards, Larry

gyulasun

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2010, 07:12:41 PM »
Hi Larry,

Thanks for your earlier answer and the latest photos too.

Would you mind telling the unloaded rms value of the output voltage in this latest setup? (maybe 15-20V rms?)

Thanks,  Gyula

Butch LaFonte

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2010, 07:42:31 PM »
@Butch

You tried the switcher as a motor and you did not see any A?     I hope you realize that you won't see a torque except when the angle theta is close to zero, in my drawing below.   Did you try it in this configuration?   

EM
EM,
We did our torque tests with a slot free Switcher stator and got no torque. Our simulations show no torque to speak of with 1/16" slots. What amazed me was the voltage we were able to produce with a slot free stator ring, 220 VAC.
The smaller the gap of the slots the smaller the cogging force, very little gap is needed to get the switching effect.
How we got it with no gaps is still being looked at. Very interesting things going with the fields in that stator during high rpm operation. It could be a whole new behavior we have not see before. I do know this, I have never see such a work free means of reversing a field and the power produced by that reversing having so little effect on the cause of the reversing.
It must sometimes look like a DNA spiral with that stator rotor interaction. Really fun stuff here.
Butch

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2010, 12:14:34 AM »
@All,

Wanted to present another simple reciprocating concept of the Lafonte group generator in the attached picture.

@Gyula,

Will have to get back to you on your request. Reduced the air gap between the rotor and stator and getting some weird results with your test. My AC induction motor is very responsive to slight changes in torque.

Regards, Larry

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #99 on: April 06, 2010, 03:08:12 PM »

Would you mind telling the unloaded rms value of the output voltage in this latest setup? (maybe 15-20V rms?)


Okay, setup back to original, Vrms is 27.2 unloaded.

Regards, Larry

Butch LaFonte

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2010, 07:03:53 PM »
Larry,
You know, this would work in a rotary fashion. Also, if you put a stator on each side of the rotor magnets you would take the thrust load off the rotor bearing.
I will make a drawing of a 16 (two eight stator rings) stator, 16 magnet rotor for future reference.
Butch

LarryC

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2010, 12:07:40 AM »
[A author=Butch LaFonte link=topic=8852.msg236503#msg236503 date=1270573433]
You know, this would work in a rotary fashion. Also, if you put a stator on each side of the rotor magnets you would take the thrust load off the rotor bearing.
I will make a drawing of a 16 (two eight stator rings) stator, 16 magnet rotor for future reference.
[/quote]

Agreed and understand your comment, I'm sure my watt lost, between no stator and with stator, is due to frictional loss, because the AC motor is not meant to be pulled out by the strong magnets parallel to the AC motor rotor.

Please check out the attached concept, as displayed, it shows four nodes and four slots with an internal magnet rotor. This can easily be increased to any multiple number of nodes, slots for commercial size generators.

Regards, Larry
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 02:11:13 AM by LarryC »

Blainiac

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2010, 10:18:25 AM »
I wonder if you could have a mechanical setup by replacing the coils with one of Butch's other concepts, the separating plates? 

Butch LaFonte

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2010, 08:07:16 PM »
[A author=Blainiac link=topic=8852.msg236598#msg236598 date=1270628305]
I wonder if you could have a mechanical setup by replacing the coils with one of Butch's other concepts, the separating plates?
[/quote]
That is a very interesting idea!
Butch

wattsup

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Re: LaFonte Group can turn off permanent magnet without work
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2010, 08:54:12 PM »
[A author=Butch LaFonte link=topic=8852.msg236503#msg236503 date=1270573433]
You know, this would work in a rotary fashion. Also, if you put a stator on each side of the rotor magnets you would take the thrust load off the rotor bearing.
I will make a drawing of a 16 (two eight stator rings) stator, 16 magnet rotor for future reference.


Agreed and understand your comment, I'm sure my watt lost, between no stator and with stator, is due to frictional loss, because the AC motor is not meant to be pulled out by the strong magnets parallel to the AC motor rotor.

Please check out the attached concept, as displayed, it shows four nodes and four slots with an internal magnet rotor. This can easily be increased to any multiple number of nodes, slots for commercial size generators.

Regards, Larry

@LarryC

If your stator has many individual winds, I suggest you put a diode after each one individually, then put them in parallel, and not, in parrallel then all on one diode. This will cut out themutual drag that is devellopped and shared amonst the coils. This way, once the magnet passes the coil, the energy is taken out and cannot re-effect the coil.