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Author Topic: Electrical igniter for gas engines A keystone to understanding by Magluvin  (Read 246598 times)

baroutologos

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I conducted some fast experiments with my 555 timer fully adjustable from 200Khz to 1Khz driving my Kacher or a transistor NPN style that in turned pulsed a transformer. (solid state interrupter)

I took my isolation transformer, (220volt input primary to 15v / 25v secondary output center tapped). I begun pulsing the 220volt side. Output was collected by applying to the 15volt isolated secondary and arrange a FWBR, that in the latter was connected across a 10K uF, 25volt  electolytic cap, that i had  also attached as a load an indicating bulb 0.5amps @12 volts. :)

Results were poor. I must say that there are a lot sweet spots, and those are especially noted when the transformer "squeals" or hums intensely.

Most experimenting was conducted without a zener diode because the small ones i have in hand burnt. (db3 diacs actually)

Without a zener, and in that configuration (note the capacitor is just for smoothing and flyback collection, not for voltage boost) experimental results were poor ranging from 10-70% efficiency. by the way, i do not think that zener will dramatically improved (if any) my results.

I do not know, the same line of experimenting i have done in the past with always frustrating results. Perhaps Tito should give guidelines on that and specifics...

Magluvin

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Hey logos
One problem i see is the transistor switching. A physical contact seems to work much better in creating as pure of an impulse as possible.
I use mosfet switching for stuff but it does not do the dew. The relay does the Mountain Dew Dance. =]
Try that and compare.
I admit that there is the possibility that normal transformers may be an issue here. It is just a quick substitute for trying things before building an air core transformer.

I have to go to work, but I will try a vid tonight to show what I have done.

And another interesting thing I tried is using a strobe tube and circuit as an impulse device.
Cut one of the end leads of the strobe tube and insert the transformer there. The impulses are impressive. =]
i didnt have an adjustable strobe other than changing the 400v cap on the board to smaller values to speed it up.
Your light bulb may blow with this setup. And the magnet near the transformer gives a very sharp thump.
Putting various caps across the coil( primary or secondary) inserted into the strobe circuit provides some interesting effects and applying different loads and caps to the output of the transformer change the way things happen on the input side also. 
Be careful of that strobe voltage. =]

Just another experiment, but all these things under the belt are good experience.
And actually, if the air core transformer is the key ingredient here, the strobe would be my choice for working with here. I think Walmart has them with and adjustment for freq of strobing. 

Logos, I think you will agree with me here if you give it a go.  ;]   I tried to put the output to the input and with this setup I got the best results. My strobe is of the small 12v variety from auto parts stores in the accessory lighting section. Mine is older than what is available today, but the same effects can be had.

magluvin

mscoffman

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...
One problem i see is the transistor switching. A physical contact seems to work much better in creating as pure of an impulse as possible.
I use mosfet switching for stuff but it does not do the dew. The relay does the Mountain Dew Dance. =]
Try that and compare.
...

Sure, but inductive kicks from coil and other current causes relay
contacts to arc, essentially combusting (oxidizing) platinum and damaging
them over time. Under the presence of a magnetic field this could cause
MHD MagnetoHydroDynamic energy generation - Do you really want to
generate power in a little Internal Combustion Engine burning platinum
metal? To each his own, but transistors are better in that they don't
arc. Try to suppress the arc in the contacts...I'll bet that doesn't won't
work efficiently either. It's trying to tell you something - It's a fueled,
not an overunity process. Also, you can reduce transistor insertion
impendace to .01 ohms using special mosfets but without the arc...

:S:MarkSCoffman

Magluvin

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Hey Ms
I understand that I can even put the transistors in parallel to lower that on resistance even more.
But the strobe tube is a very interesting spark gap and seems to be non destructive to itself, for at least as long as I ran it.
We are just getting some things going in this thread, some projects, just to simply get some experience with it all. We can talk about it forever, but till we try, we know nothing.
I am in favor of semiconductors for how and what they can do. But first things first.
I use an IRF44z mosfet in some of my experiments and it is still kickin. No blow.
But the contact switching is producing better results at this time to try things. =]

Mags

Magluvin

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One more thing to add to that, in the igniter setup, the contacts have very little problems as compared to Titos setup.

Mags

Magluvin

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I know that some are going to come here and say this and that and even argue about what is going on here. Don let that disturb any progress along the way. At least we have a few here willing to explore the possibilities of what Tesla had in mind. I have seen no projects going on till now, just talk an argument.
So just stay focused and try some new things with each experiment along the way. We should be able to come up with something, if we really believe what Tesla had going really works. We are getting to some nitty gritty stuff that will tell a lot.

Mags

delboy

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Delboy
I hear what you are saying, but are you suggesting that we built huge coils like Tesla or we wont be able to get the goods? Not many of us have a garage, much less a warehouse to build such a thing. We would like to work on small scale, also for cost of experimentation. I am not coming down on you. =] we appreciate the help tremendously. But I get the feeling you are saying we have to go huge for it to work.
Also, we are looking for more useful output and no lightning bolts jumping off of the equipment.   ;D

If you can throw some tips toward those goals, that would be a great help.   ;)

I am now hearing you on the air core transformer also. I had been thinking about that and the best way to go about it without getting too large and some criteria that would need to be followed. Like, should the secondary be inside of the primary, or does that not make a difference? Should there be spacing between turns of each coil, or can they be wound tight? And if so, how do we know what spacing to use? And is it that having a core material, ferrite, etc. , is it problematic?
You asked so many questions so here is what I can give answer...
About huge coils, I meant on air core for output of this device but later it can be used as design rule for input inductivity.
What I meant about input inductivity, you can go in 2 directions.
1.   If you use inductivity with laminated core material (Fe) then you must stay on low frequency of switching (f<200Hz) and then you will have compact form of inductivity having only several hundret turns of wire. Frequency is low because of core losses which are square dependent on frequency!
2.   If you use air core input inductivity then you must use coil wound on large drum from 0,5 to 1 meter having at least 500 turns to have big inductivity :D That will be expensive because used length of wire, but it is not limited in switching and no core losses
Now something about output of this device. Primary should be small inductivity because we want high frequency and high current to secure transfer of energy to coupled part of secondary for the next Q-amplification in second-ary stage ;)
For example, if primary capacity is C=2,2uF and primary inductivity is one turn of wire(cable) diameter of 1 meter that gives Lp=3uH and alltogether gives resonant frequency of about 62 kHz. If input inductivity is for example L=0,5H that gives resonant frequency 151 Hz  but only because I neglect value of Lp comparing to L.
High current is where comes to problem with switch. Here is example. If primary capacitor is charged to 200 V and then discharged to primary let's calculate start peak of current.
First we will calculate impedance Zc=sqrt(Lp/Cp)=sqrt(3/2,2)=1,16 Ω and that will give max current Imax=200/1,16 = 172 A but this is true only if switch contact resistance in state ON is neglect. In reality this is place where losses play main part, because any active resistance R will bring to fast damped wave, and we want oscillations to continue as long as possible.
Yes, secondary should be inside primary, like in all Tesla's transmitters and wound clockwise, looking from topview. Primary should be close to secondary as possible, and It will be enough for example only 5 milimeters spacing between primary and secondary, if secondary is grounded! Turns in secondary should be tight with minimal spacing. This depends on max expected voltage on secondary. For example , if we expect 200kV and we have 50 turns that gives 4kV per turn, it will be enough that spacing is only 2 mm.
About core material in output stage, hmmmm very problematic, because this is place where design is to go to very wide air core transformer and frequency should be very high that means we want small primary inductivity meaning no magnetic core material (no losses related to core)

Qwert

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I want you guys to remind (I believe you have seen this already) Bruce TPU's observation/solution for a "sudden stop" (switch?):
 
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2300.msg221623#msg221623

Q

Magluvin

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Thanks Delboy  ;]
I Was looking toward trying to make mini setups. More like ones that could be individualized for things such as ev's and computer ps, etc. The big ones are cool too. I just had some visions of small.
I suppose air core of the small type would be way high in freq. I was looking to stay a bit lower on the radar, of which would be good for all.
But I will keep playing around with it. It is neat stuff.
Thanks for the answers to all the questions. Sorry for so many. ;]

Mags

baroutologos

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Hey mag,

Lately i have tried various things to test various concepts, yet all end up to predicatble failures. i am not concerned much about that. the only big concern i have is that in all experimenting history of mine had not any incidence that bears any actual promise.

I think i am losing my faith, since the only thing all expermenters here have is only faith... Anyway i have spent large sums of money (5000 USD last 1 1/4 year) to gather materials so as to experiment (in a noob setup) with almost any popular theory...

I think i will take a rest for a while. I will resume building as soon as Tito posts some diagrams for the ultimate goal.
I just hope he is not a hoax also.

Salutes for now

ramset

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All
I can feel the frustration here!Myself included.

                              Keep the "Faith".

Everyday it seems a "New" technology is popping up its head,
This was NEVER the case before. Now we have all manner of devices and techs ,it has become almost a familiar experience to read of some "brake through" here or there that will change our world.

My point is They're [big oil etc.] not looking here, the rest of the world has them crappin in their pants.
Silicon Valley has "HUNDREDS" of start ups looking for ways to "Tap" these techs.[tap our pockets is more like it]
Its time to "play" the Cats away.[as in "gone for good"]

Tito,delboy what do you have fellas?.
Lets do this.
delboy do you have a picture of one of your air cores?.

Remember "Teecho" you promised to throw a "crumb"
for the weary and "The World"!

Chet




Magluvin

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I agree with Ram.  It does feel like something is going to pop. Many are close or already there(tito).
It is just a matter of a little time. So stay tuned Logos. If I were to calculate the amount of time I have spent on this stuff just in the last couple years, I am way beyond 5 g's  way beyond. Even though my cash investment may only be less than half of what you quoted.
I hit many low spot along the way. Funny thing is, the next day Im back at it.

Mags

Schpankme

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Many are close or already there (TITO)...It is just a matter of a little time.

Tito has NOTHING!  How many times do you PEOPLE fall for the same con "I GOT IT FIGURED OUT, BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU".

Who gives a damn about saving the WORLD, you can't even save yourself.

- Schpankme

Let's get an understanding of our roles. I'm the life guard and your the drowning man. Listen to me and I'll get you to safety; fight me and I'll slap you around.

ramset

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Shhhpankums.
Quote:
fight me and I'll slap you around
----------------
Lets make it a steel cage match!!
out side!!!

I'll show you some "Overunity"[fold you up a little bit]

 ;D
Chet

Magluvin

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Wow Shpankins, is this the way all your posts go?  Ill have a look see.

Mags