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Author Topic: Russian magnet motor  (Read 46746 times)

Anatoliy

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  • Posts: 13
    • The magnetic engine
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2006, 01:40:41 PM »
Quote from: hartiberlin on March 22, 2006, 03:45:09 PM
@Antoly:
What is still missing ? Better magnets ?
The magnet with the special sizes is necessary for me.
Therefore it should be ordered. One magnet do for a long time.
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TEguy

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2006, 03:50:14 PM »
Hi Anatoliy,
I am very sceptical about your design and here is why:
In your diagram for component number 3 it says Ferromagnetic shield. Correct? If I got this bit right then I don't see how the motor will work because ferromagnetic materials are attracted to magnets. This is the very reason they are able to shield the magnetic field. They shield by interacting with the field. And interaction with the field causes them to be attracted. This is a problem because in your design you have a piece of ferromagnetic material lets say steel. The steel is basically between two magnets. The steel is pulled away from the magnets by the spring. This will require a lot of energy from the system, because if the spring is strong enough to pull the shield away, the repelling force of the magnets will not be strong enough to stretch the spring again. The repelling force between the two magnets will always be smaller than the attraction force between the magnets and the steel. The reason for this is because the steel is always closer to the magnets than the magnets are to each other. And as we all know the closer you go to a magnet the denser the magnetic flux becomes. I think this is the main problem - the steel is always closer to the top magnet than the bottom magnet is because the steel is between them and is exposed to much stronger field than the bottom magnet. As with hundreds of other mechanisms I've seen on this forum, if you use a material which shields magnetic field but is not attracted by the magnet, then your motor will work.
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stiffy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2006, 03:51:03 PM »
This motor design is one of the few designs I've seen that may actually work, provided you manage to make the magnetic screening a pure modulation, thus extracting minimal energy from the downward motion. The screening material between the magnet should NOT interact with the magnetic fields in any way other than to diminish its effect. If this design is to be successful at all you cannot have significant work associated with the insertion/exsertion of the screening material per "combustion" cycle. Using ferromagnetic materials is not the way to go here because you'll experience substantial force when moving the metal screen in and out of the gap.

As far as I can tell, the biggest hurdle with this design is the magnetic screening material used during the upward cycle, but other than that we have a classic combustion engine. We need a material that does not interact with the magnetic fields but merely functions as a barrier. Also, the screening material should be as thin as possible to allow very close proximity of the magnets, thereby maximizing the "combustion" pressure. Would a thin sheet of high density lead work?

Keep up the good work! 
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jake

  • Guest
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2006, 04:21:54 PM »
Quote
...we have a classic combustion engine.

Worth noting that typical internal combustion engines are 30% efficient (mostly heat loss, but the mechanical losses are pretty stiff too).
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gn0stik

  • Guest
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2006, 09:01:39 PM »
Quote from: stiffy on June 07, 2006, 03:51:03 PM
This motor design is one of the few designs I've seen that may actually work, provided you manage to make the magnetic screening a pure modulation, thus extracting minimal energy from the downward motion. The screening material between the magnet should NOT interact with the magnetic fields in any way other than to diminish its effect. If this design is to be successful at all you cannot have significant work associated with the insertion/exsertion of the screening material per "combustion" cycle. Using ferromagnetic materials is not the way to go here because you'll experience substantial force when moving the metal screen in and out of the gap.

As far as I can tell, the biggest hurdle with this design is the magnetic screening material used during the upward cycle, but other than that we have a classic combustion engine. We need a material that does not interact with the magnetic fields but merely functions as a barrier. Also, the screening material should be as thin as possible to allow very close proximity of the magnets, thereby maximizing the "combustion" pressure. Would a thin sheet of high density lead work?

Keep up the good work! 


There is no such thing as a shielding material that is NOT ferromagnetic.

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stiffy

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  • Posts: 13
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 11:35:42 PM »
Quote from: gn0stik on June 07, 2006, 09:01:39 PM
There is no such thing as a shielding material that is NOT ferromagnetic.

It's been a long time since I actually looked at this stuff. Anyway, the screening material should be some diamagnetic material (plastics, lead, gold, etc. )
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stiffy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 11:43:41 PM »
Quote from: jake on June 07, 2006, 04:21:54 PM
Quote
...we have a classic combustion engine.

Worth noting that typical internal combustion engines are 30% efficient (mostly heat loss, but the mechanical losses are pretty stiff too).

True, but we are able to cruise a 160 km/hr on the Autobahn despite the bad efficiency of the combustion engine. This Russiam setup remains interesting nevertheless.
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FreeEnergy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2006, 01:18:15 AM »
from: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1073.0.html

Quote from: gyulasun on May 30, 2006, 02:39:51 PM
You would need diamagnetic material like bismuth or pyrolytic graphite sheets which are highly diamagnetic.

Found a link on bismuth: http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/levmag.htm and it seems to be formed easily at home to a flat sheet format too due to its low melting temperature point.

Also a good info on diamagnetic materials is here:

http://www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/diamag/ajp601.pdf        and also here:
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/diamag/diajap00.pdf

The "latest" strongly diamagnetic material is pyrolytic graphite and it is available just in the correct shape for your arm:
http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/pyrolytic_graphite.html

Now your idea can be tested! Go ahead!

rgds
Gyula
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Anatoliy

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  • Posts: 13
    • The magnetic engine
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2006, 10:09:55 AM »
Hello!
Meanwhile I hide some secrets of a design of the engine. Due to them, the engine will work with the ferromagnetic screen.
Yours faithfully, Anatoly.
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stiffy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2006, 03:01:07 PM »
Quote from: Anatoliy on June 08, 2006, 10:09:55 AM
Hello!
Meanwhile I hide some secrets of a design of the engine. Due to them, the engine will work with the ferromagnetic screen.
Yours faithfully, Anatoly.

What about a shutter mechanism such as this for the up stroke screening?

(http://www.dcviews.com/cursus/images/tt51010.gif)
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stiffy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2006, 03:07:24 PM »
Quote from: FreeEnergy on June 08, 2006, 01:18:15 AM
from: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1073.0.html

Quote from: gyulasun on May 30, 2006, 02:39:51 PM
You would need diamagnetic material like bismuth or pyrolytic graphite sheets which are highly diamagnetic.

Found a link on bismuth: http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/levmag.htm and it seems to be formed easily at home to a flat sheet format too due to its low melting temperature point.

Also a good info on diamagnetic materials is here:

http://www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/diamag/ajp601.pdf        and also here:
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/diamag/diajap00.pdf

The "latest" strongly diamagnetic material is pyrolytic graphite and it is available just in the correct shape for your arm:
http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/pyrolytic_graphite.html

Now your idea can be tested! Go ahead!

rgds
Gyula

Didn't read all the posts. Anyway, like Gyula says, diamagnetic material is probably needed to minimize insertion/exsertions forces.
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TEguy

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2006, 03:46:58 PM »
Quote from: gn0stik on June 07, 2006, 09:01:39 PM



There is no such thing as a shielding material that is NOT ferromagnetic.




I wasn't sure about this gn0stick. If this is true then this engine is a waste of time
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pucella

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Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2006, 08:08:17 PM »
Hi
I have some idea how to cancel force of removing barrier from this system.
If we will make disc from still with let say 16 wholes and 15 motor systems with synchronization we will accomplish cancellation of barrier removing forces. Don?t you think?
 Sorry for my English
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gn0stik

  • Guest
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2006, 09:40:44 PM »
Quote from: TEguy on June 08, 2006, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: gn0stik on June 07, 2006, 09:01:39 PM



There is no such thing as a shielding material that is NOT ferromagnetic.




I wasn't sure about this gn0stick. If this is true then this engine is a waste of time


ding ding ding ding ding... you win the thread.
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2tiger

  • Jr. Member
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  • Posts: 59
Re: Russian magnet motor
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2006, 03:28:40 PM »
Quote
The repelling force between the two magnets will always be smaller than the attraction force between the magnets and the steel. The reason for this is because the steel is always closer to the magnets than the magnets are to each other.

Sure, but don?t forget your sliding the steel sidewise away (in 90 degrees to the magnetic "forcelines").
When you have to magnets stucked together, what are you going to do to separte them. Would yo try to separate them by pulling agains the direccion of the magnetic force or would you try to simply slide them away from each other.
I think you would them slide away from each other. But why you should do this, even when the force is the same.
Try it out and you will see that it?s not the same.

I think that this design is better than Torbay?s design. Torbay?s Motor seems to me like a donkey-truck pulled by a carot. :D

By
 2Tiger 

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