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Author Topic: My first Neman motor  (Read 14219 times)

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 10:18:22 PM »
UPDATE:

I now have 24-9V batteries. With all in series I get about 208v (due to the first 12 being used batteries). 4th video up on youtube:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QF5LqqlA0

WOW.  Still a bit buggy, but getting there.

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 10:18:22 PM »

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2010, 12:05:14 AM »
Ok wow. video #5 done and up on youtube.  A full 10 minute run with 2 sets of 12 9V batteries. And I have some torque. Wow.  Now to get another spool of wire for the top coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMiReoN3F8

Thanks for all the help

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 08:20:37 PM »
Hello.  Today I ran my Newman motor for an hour. With 2 sets of 12 9V batteries in parallel. It ran for the entire hour, though a few times it seemed to slow down, but pick back up.

one issue I have now, is that the coil warmed up.  Nothing to hot, just warm.  Definitely to much current. So this is not a Newman setup.  I ordered a spool of 26awg wire today. I think I need to redesign the commutator.  hmmm.

 

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2010, 08:20:37 PM »
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Offline jadaro2600

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2010, 03:46:45 AM »
Hello.  Today I ran my Newman motor for an hour. With 2 sets of 12 9V batteries in parallel. It ran for the entire hour, though a few times it seemed to slow down, but pick back up.

one issue I have now, is that the coil warmed up.  Nothing to hot, just warm.  Definitely to much current. So this is not a Newman setup.  I ordered a spool of 26awg wire today. I think I need to redesign the commutator.  hmmm.

Just a friendly warning, centripetal force may cause your magnets to fly off - you may want to secure them, unless you have and I just haven't seen the screw heads on the ends.

You may be able to use something other than a circular coil, ..you could bring the sides in and crate a square one - though this would mean rewinding that wire, it may increase the number of turns by maybe a dozen or so and the clearance may go down, if you do this, it would be easy to separate the coils over the top, you could just hinge one side and sandwich them over the axis.

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2010, 02:19:02 PM »
Quote
Just a friendly warning, centripetal force may cause your magnets to fly off - you may want to secure them, unless you have and I just haven't seen the screw heads on the ends.

The magnets are very strong neodimium, with 96 lbs of attraction on their surfaces.  It will take a few hundred more RPMs to get them to fly off.  I love these magnets.  I like to put one on the back and front of one of my hands and feel the squeeze. Thanks for you concern though.

Quote
You may be able to use something other than a circular coil, ..you could bring the sides in and crate a square one - though this would mean rewinding that wire, it may increase the number of turns by maybe a dozen or so and the clearance may go down, if you do this, it would be easy to separate the coils over the top, you could just hinge one side and sandwich them over the axis.


A square coil is being considered.  But will be after a couple of other round type. I ordered more wire, for going on top, but my current set-up needs to much current.  Need to re-think somethings.



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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2010, 02:19:02 PM »
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Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 02:50:00 PM »
Hello everyone.  Ok. I have decided to take half of the bottom coil and put it on top. I am trying for a very nice wind, and going slowly. I will be doing this for most of today, perhaps even tomorrow. 

I have 26awg wire ordered.  I will make 2 coils out of it. Should be here in a day or two.

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 09:33:20 PM »
Ok, I took some wire from the bottom coil, to make a top coil.  While doing this, the wire broke.  Well, it broke at a length giving me 65.4ohms, which is fine by me, so I hooked it up and tried it.  The Bottom coil now measures 365ohms. I ran it with 200vdc. It ran for about one minute, slowed down, struggled for about another minute then stopped.

I am about to go out and buy a 6" diameter PVC pipe, because my 26awg wire arrived today (1257 feet of it, 57.5ohms total). I will do my best to put half on top, half on bottom, but I do not have a machine to tell me exactly when half is. At 57ohms, I will only use about 50v on it (at first). 

Going to make a video of a run right now, only it will be only around 95v.  If you want to see a 200v run let me know.

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 09:33:20 PM »
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Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2010, 03:56:47 AM »
quick update, I have another video up.

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QcLW5y65f8

Currently hard at work building another set of coils out of 26awg (1257ft, and only 65ohms).  Will make two coils out of this.  About to wind the coils now...


Offline jadaro2600

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2010, 10:04:06 AM »
A square coil is being considered.  But will be after a couple of other round type. I ordered more wire, for going on top, but my current set-up needs to much current.  Need to re-think somethings.

Just remember that Newman's claim was voltage. :)

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2010, 10:04:06 AM »
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Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 04:37:32 AM »
Ok, I built the 2 new coils with 26 awg wire. Total resistance of both coils is now at 57.2ohms.  With a 97v battery pack it ran very well, but again slowed and then stopped. So I have not made a video of this, (no change).  So now I need to figure out why is it slowing? what am I missing or doing wrong.  I am not ready to use graphite brushes yet. There has got to be something that I am missing.  I am not trying for over unity. I want super efficient with plenty of torque. With the two coils I am getting nice torque, but it slows down and stops.  Some one on youtube suggest my timing. I have tried different angles on my magnet rotor, but no difference.  Arrrgh, this is getting frustrating.

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2010, 04:51:25 AM »
9v batteries aren't capable of creating a great deal of current, you may try using lantern batteries instead.  The 6v type, ..less of them than the 9 volt, but they will give you substantially more current.

Even hooking up 2 of these would provide better source characteristics than all of thse 9v batteries.

You would be diverging from the Newman theories, but the device should still operate.

I'm not sure why the Newman device does what it does primarily on voltage, ..if you watch his videos, that massive hulking 'thing' he has - has claims would be impossible to move the rotor with the hand, but the voltage gives him the push he needs.

Then he starts his machine ...with his hand he turns the commutator.  ::) :-\

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2010, 04:51:25 AM »
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Offline kmarinas86

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2010, 03:16:54 PM »
Ok, I built the 2 new coils with 26 awg wire. Total resistance of both coils is now at 57.2ohms.  With a 97v battery pack it ran very well, but again slowed and then stopped. So I have not made a video of this, (no change).  So now I need to figure out why is it slowing? what am I missing or doing wrong.  I am not ready to use graphite brushes yet. There has got to be something that I am missing.  I am not trying for over unity. I want super efficient with plenty of torque. With the two coils I am getting nice torque, but it slows down and stops.  Some one on youtube suggest my timing. I have tried different angles on my magnet rotor, but no difference.  Arrrgh, this is getting frustrating.

There are several reasons. For something with a tiny capacity like 9V, you will have an extremely difficult time getting it to run long. The capacity of a AA battery is at least 4 times more. Yet when I use 9 volt batteries, I would always get the same result as you. It would run for 1 hour and then after that they are dead. At that time, my "candy cane" tiny motor (AA-driven) ran up to 3 hours each time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Tlq7bLdvQ) with only 4 1.2V AA batteries. I haven't driven it using 9V there after. Then I increased my wire by several times (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f7VDImP4jI) and it would run for 6 hours. At that point it was 8 1.2V AA batteries, and power output was greater than before.

With small capacity batteries such as AA or 9V, you already need something like 1 mile of wire to get the current density down to the level of the Newman effect while still having appreciable power. At that point, using 28AWG, my current from each of the AA batteries would last 2 days. Even with that, the kind of result I got with that was a joke. At this point it was 4000 feet of wire, and it would run for two days, but it was only enough to turn my 15" fan blade at 180 rpm.

With (4.5 coils)*(4000 feet/coil), or 18,000 feet, I was able to get the 32" fan to turn at 165 rpm using 300V and 0.06A. I did this bypassing 2000 feet of wire. Doing so decreased the efficiency.

I ordered another coil recently which will bring up the total length of wire to 24,000 feet. The last two times I added coils, each time the current has been cut in half and the rpm only dropped by 10% for the same voltage, but this is with a big fan. This would imply an improvement of 50% in efficiency each time.

A more detailed analysis (using more accurate numbers) had me determine this was actually 80% improvement each time. Just recently I found that by making the coils tighter, I would get yet another improvement that is nearly as good as when I added the previous coil.

With a small fan, I don't get these results. On the contrary, my best results when using the small fan was when using 2 coils, not 3 or more. I could obtain up to 370 RPM that way, but the current was getting too much for my liking (0.06A at 229V).

With the big fan, I expect better results than this with 6 coils instead of 5. 160 RPM (equivalent to 370 RPM with the small fan, a factor of (32/19.375)^(5/3)) was achieved with 18 watts, but the next change should bring it down below 10 watts. With 1.5 coils added (6000 feet) and enough voltage, the power requirements for that same RPM should fall to 8 watts.

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2010, 03:20:37 PM »


There is another video where Newman has Joseph Nolfe showed how hard it was to rotate the axle.  I believe what Joseph Newman meant by saying that on could not rotate his machine by hand was, it is extremely difficult to turn it by hand at the axle.  That huge flywheel give one a lot of leverage.  So at the axle, no. using the flywheel, yes.

I believe I am getting a inductive resistance build up. I believe I will need to use 16 to 14 gauge wire. to get the induced resistance down. So plans are being made to do just that.  I have 500ft of 14awg in a coil, but not such that I can but the rotor in the center.  I need to re-wind the wire into two coils.  Because I am working with 4" PVC pipe (at the moment).  I am thinking of using a 5 gal. bucket for the 14awg wire. 

We shall see....

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2010, 04:30:04 PM »
There are several reasons. For something with a tiny capacity like 9V, you will have an extremely difficult time getting it to run long. The capacity of a AA battery is at least 4 times more. Yet when I use 9 volt batteries, I would always get the same result as you.

Thank you so very much for your advice. So you think that the 9v batteries are just dying, running out of current after just 30sec?  It did seem to work alot better when I had two sets of 9v batteries in parallel, giving me more current capacity. But then the coil warmed up.  Not what I want. I believe I need a little more current, but double was to much.  Maybe. 

I am considering on using the 6v lantern batteries.  But I don't want to increase the current unless it is absolutely necessary. It is looking like I do need a little more though. hmmmm.....

Offline detrix42

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Re: My first Neman motor
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2010, 08:31:10 PM »
I have hooked up my second set of coils to about 95v (2 sets of 11 9v batteries for proper current).  I am letting it run for an hour, to see if the coils heat up.  After 30min, the coils are cool to the touch.   ;D  And it has been running steady, no slowing down and then speeding up.  A more constant speed.   :D 

If this works -- runs for an hour without heating up -- I will make a video of it.

cheers.

 

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