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Conventional alternative energy systems => All other conventional alternative energy creation systems => Topic started by: infringer on January 24, 2010, 09:59:50 PM

Title: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on January 24, 2010, 09:59:50 PM
I am curious if any of you folks have used micro grid tie units ...

I have heard of a few people who swear by the swiss units like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Solar-Wind-SWEA-Micro-Grid-Tie-Power-Inverter_W0QQitemZ220526022968 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Solar-Wind-SWEA-Micro-Grid-Tie-Power-Inverter_W0QQitemZ220526022968)

But I am curious about the cheaper units featured on ebay like the chinese units on ebay...

Anyone using micro grid tie please post your feedback I would greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on January 25, 2010, 03:32:23 AM

I have not seen this type unit before i mean manufacturer but there are different types and some are good and some aren't worth a nickel in my opinion. some have to be tied to the grid for a while and make a consistent power level for about five minutes before they will output any power to the grid so they run but any fluctuation or drop starts a recount mine charges a cap bank and when it has enough for a pulse it sends it of there is enough for full time running it just keeps putting out so at this point i am fairly happy it does 1 KW max but am looking to do better.
Martin
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on January 25, 2010, 05:30:44 AM
Thanks for the kind reply.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on January 25, 2010, 08:08:00 AM
yeah, their cute cute I suppose.

Every bit helps.

Here is some manufacturer info:

http://www.swea.nl/PDF/StarterkitManualEng.pdf

I have not seen this type unit before i mean manufacturer but there are different types and some are good and some aren't worth a nickel in my opinion. some have to be tied to the grid for a while and make a consistent power level for about five minutes before they will output any power to the grid so they run but any fluctuation or drop starts a recount mine charges a cap bank and when it has enough for a pulse it sends it of there is enough for full time running it just keeps putting out so at this point i am fairly happy it does 1 KW max but am looking to do better.
Martin

Yes Nueview,
You bring up a good point that may escape others.

The use of any small grid-tie inverter
should always be done through an intermediate storage source
Like a battery bank, or "Stiffener" capacitor bank.

Letting the feeble amount from any energy solar source
like wind, solar, etc. feed the inverter directly is a waste.

The small amounts they produce at times,
and sync plus delay circuits, etc.,
will waste most of your energy
under spinning the power meter.

Always build it up first,
then run at the inverters max.

An inverter idling has a horrible efficiency rating.

They are most efficient near the top of their max out.

So, build up, THEN drain out at full force to the grid.



Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on January 25, 2010, 05:08:18 PM
to Compututor
thank you for understanding my reply and clarifying it for me to others.
yes the system needs to be run near max input and then becomes quite efficient otherwise they are not worth doing at all and could cost more to have than they are worth for the installation.
Martin
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on January 26, 2010, 03:02:15 AM
Great info to know... Always run micro grid tie near max output sounds good.

My efforts are simply to eliminate the need for batteries and save power on electric.

I have an MK DEKA already for my panel I built last year but I guess I'd rather get 2/3's of the wattage and not have to worry about batteries at all.

So these units may be a god send for me in the mean time I will investigate further I now have 150watts of solar but within the next few months I plan on building more panels approx 450watts worth of panels underestimating slightly due to defects that may be present... I will continue to add to my solar production as time goes on I will add 500 - 1000 watts each year is my estimate.

I just wanna start pumping some juice into my house save even 5bux a month on my electric bill would be nice. All my lights are CFL lights I have smart surge strips and some on digital timers motion lights in the hall to keep them from being left on I have been spending and spending to save on my bill doing the small things I will continue to do so.

I have some other projects that I will be doing as well... Have a WindBlue rotor I am having trouble getting to spin freely  but that is a whole post of a differnt topic.

I am looking for cost effective energy production and I will not stop at no for an answer.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on January 26, 2010, 04:07:12 AM

Infringer

You may be interested in this site it is local here in alaska and it is something our group here is into so we started putting it together with some of what we have found and some of what we want to do it is mostly practical stuff on generators and the like if interested check it out or register all the help is good for the site right now.
we have two off the grid houses and one runs for under $90 a month fuel cost that was for december the windmill and extra solar should bring that down allot when it is done. the other we are just framing up it is for my daughter and looking at how to get past some of the major hurdles such as heating batteries and inverters this is mainly a cash flow problem so putting money where it has the biggest bang is very important this is a bit difficult to nail down as each situation is different.
hope you will enjoy looking them over,
Martin


http://green-sustainable-living.com/

http://sustainablekenai.org/ 
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on January 26, 2010, 04:19:33 AM
I have found the analogy of using water to represent electricity
has helped in the past when talking with folks other than us here.

It demystifies it and allows the common man to visualize,
and apply common sense and logic
to things never understandable before.

But maybe it might help this time.

Picture a garden hose with continuously varying amounts
of water coming out, sometimes none for long periods.

Common sense would be to get a bucket or tank.

In a perfect world of even and constant wind and sun
we could build our wind and solar systems to directly convert
from source energy to grid backfeed to save constant money.

But we all know that is never going to happen...

So remember, large deep cycle marine batteries
are very inexpensive at wally world, etc.

A couple of low-loss schottky diodes
with minimal forward voltage drop loss
and you have a hands off system.

Add a voltage regulator if you make more
than you have room to store or use live time.

Out the back door to check the water level
in those expendable batteries occasionally.

Otherwise a hands off system.

The grid tie will always shut off for low batt.

It's the old:
Cut bait / Keep fishing
paradox...

I can't myself envision any kind of collection system
like wind, solar, water without a "Bucket" to hold it.

OK, make and store hydrogen in tanks
for a fuel cell to turn it back into electricity
is for the rich kids...

(Can you say "Used Forklift Battery" ?)

But batteries are inexpensive, reliable, and everywhere.
And they give you the most return on the "Harvest".

Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on January 26, 2010, 05:04:21 AM
nueview, I used to live north of fairbanks for 2 years...

Was an interesting lifestyle but something I can never grow accustomed to...

I very much disliked the darkness in the winter it is depressing jobs are very far and few between.

AK I always urge people not to live there I try as hard as I can to convince anyone even thinking about it otherwise. I tell them to go visit it in winter. In the two years I lived there there was one nice summer next year lots of rain misquitos sucked big time ... But I must admit I did have a lot of fun at times and it was as isolated from civilized culture as you can get. There are tons of cults out that way that band together it is full of different cults very dangerous I believe to mental health. But as with extreme goods there are extreme bads...

CompuTutor you raise a valid point but, micro grid tie units dont normally put out till 15v there are some that will drain off the battery and yes I could run them in a series I am sure I just am looking to cut my electric bill without crimping my lifestyle which is why I run automated electric savers they work without you knowing they are working.

I have grand ideas and thought of grand ideas before they were invented the wind tree was a thought a long time ago that I had and just now someone thought of it I have a few ideas rolling right now one of which I believe to be a million dollar idea shame I could not get funding for it somehow to develop it.

I guess in case of crisis situation it would be nice to have the energy storage anyways but all the extra mess is not fesible for my living quarters as it is I have one battery already and a good battery is not cheap I've used car batteries and such before not nearly as good as deka almost not even worth my money.

Thank you folks for the links much appreciated! And the feedback is great as well.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on January 27, 2010, 04:25:41 AM
Ouch...Alaska...Brrrrr.

That is a whole new set of rules.

And yes, car batteries don't have plates
that will survive repetitive deep discharge.

The marine ones are a fair bit better,
but Alaska cold is not an option for them.

A vented battery box inside in a back
washing machine room is your only option.

Want to invent something ?

What do you have a lot of ?

COLD, LOL

I know I'm at risk of stating the obvious there,
but temperature differential is usefull.

While we down here (Texas) are burying pipe
to harvest the static ground temperature (heat),
our dump our excess heat (AC) with heat pumps.

Find a way to make electricity from temperature differential.

You'll find threads here and elsewhere
about turning heat into usable force.

Some are silicon peltier P/N junction ideas,
some work on low boiling point liquids and gasses
to turn a shaft with a vapour and/or liquid motor
or just use evaporation principles for air conditioning.

OK, the later is of no use to you...

But look at that concept in exactly the opposite view.

You have nothing but cold to use.

You also have some form of heat too.

Some for your living environment of course.

But I have to ask this next to dream bigger.

Is your water from a well,
if so how deep is it?

If the well is reasonably deep,
and a jet style recirculatory pump.

Run the recirculated water through a heat exchanger,
and have another long loop outside doing the same to a second heat exchanger.

Use two ultra low power usage circulation pumps
like they use for zone heating installations.

You won't get fresh water from the
deep well jet pump system with
that reduced flow rate of course.

But you will get water that is
considerably warmer than outside.

The second loop should be moving fast enough
to keep from freezing, or add appropriate chemicals.

Now you have two directly opposing plates to work with,
with a substantial potential difference in temperature.

Make that do work somehow.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on January 27, 2010, 07:02:57 AM

Yeah Texas
nice and hot there to bad we couldn't ship you some cold in exchange for some heat.
i have looked into allot of different systems but the ground water here is more than 60 feet down and cold 34 to 38 degrees winter cold is about 0 going down to -30 to -50 depending were you are from the coast we are close but Fairbanks is about as far as you can get from it all the way around.
the high efficiency boilers and heating systems come out of the house at about 70 degrees and if using natural gas you have to be careful they don't freeze off from the moisture as well.
one of my ideas that would like to try is putting thermo couples or pertiers on base board heating elements you could still get the heat but it could give back some battery life or charge then boost it with a pulse motor charger seen some good devices on you tube made from alternators that really put out.
most of our wind here is low a few days a year we get high wind maybe 4 our usgs rating is under 7 mph over 20 years there are allot of people putting up windmills but they are more like weather vains than windmills they go round but don't go round the one we made last summer put out 300 watts and ran all the time so we are hoping to get a 1500 watt unit to do the same we will know soon as spring gets here. there is a picture of the blades on the site  in above post.
as for heat up here burning wood is the big alternative fuel for folks but it is dangerous because of chimney fires due to creosote due to to big a chimney pipe or to cold a chimney you really need to keep them hot and yes i understand getting away from the cold been here 35 years and it is easier elsewhere but not as free.
have any of you seen any large joule thief battery chargers i mean like for 24 or 48 volt battery banks in your travels.
Martin
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on July 31, 2011, 07:21:11 PM
The problem is we know that heat lies in the infrared spectrum...

What spectrum does cold lie in?
If we knew this we could build antennas to capture energy from this spectrum allowing us a limitless supply of power....
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on August 02, 2011, 03:36:33 AM
Heheh, and dredging under a bridge lets taller ships pass underneath  :P

Cold is the lack of infrared,
not another frequency of something.

You could have at least postulated an anti-infrared frequency,
that when opposed by infrared made a genuine dipole of energy...   ;D

But I see your point on those other matters.

The best you can hope for is capturable movement,
like an (underground) vein of flowing somewhere close
that can be captured into a generator/pump device,
and stored in a battery bank and/or raised storage tank,
or moving air in a windmill if it wouldn't freeze-over and stop.


Thanks for the offer of a box-o-cold nueview,
we have been at about 100F for weeks now...

Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: infringer on August 02, 2011, 03:52:17 AM
Yes no one can fully explain cold it in itself is a rather amazing thing I believe not fully understood ...

The only observation that I can give is that dark relates to cold and light relates to warmth there is a correlation most likely while I cannot fully prove this is true there are obvious instances.

Is dark faster then the speed of light? Or is darkness simply the medium which all else travels through?

There is so many puzzling things that science cannot explain away time and space and gravity and darkness and cold they are all areas that need far more study ... There has to be a way to convert cold or possibly even darkness into useable energy. Dark matter what is this exactly no one knows but we use it in our equations because it works. Something exists a method perhaps of harnessing these things it is evident there is something in these things just as if there is something in light.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on August 02, 2011, 04:10:27 AM
Yes, thats what I agree with.

Not cold, but instead the opposite to heat.

Or put another way,
the reduction of (infrared) heat in a reducing amount
until that goes into a negative (less than zero) state.

Scientist's have diddled with darn near zero kelvin for a while.

Whats below that temp.,
does it have a/any frequency ?

Is it the definition of "Dark" ?

Does the state we loosly term "Cold"
have a state below zero that opens a doorway ?

Near-zero superconductivity sure is impressive.

Isn't this then a black hole though?

The potential difference (both pun & literal) would be near infinite,
if capturable as a dipole, powerful would be an understatement.

is that what you meant ?

I'll end on the most absurd note I can hit,
is our black hole someone elses sun then ?

After all, THEY say energy is neither created nor destroyed...
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on August 02, 2011, 05:32:20 PM
you really have to love what can be figured out if you have enough money!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110730180245.htm

this is an article about converting heat to light and power hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: CompuTutor on August 02, 2011, 09:28:25 PM
Nano wavelength converters,
regular light to infrared, very nice.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: Doug1 on August 03, 2011, 02:43:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5juVFNCvUUs
 The heat is a byproduct easy enough to use for heating a home. Gen will charge up bats or run straight up to breaker box. Inverter requires an auto transfer switch.
 Gas/exhaust needs to be cooled down and add 50% fresh air for reburn in ICE.
  Also burns trash if you make one big enough. Use your savings to learn how to build a ammonia absorbtion cooling system that also uses heat from the same system. Just need a source of stainless with alot of nickle in it for the cooling to prevent corrosion. All dangerous parts should be kept outside in a shed. Im still collecting free stuff to finish mine the chimney has become very complex as a result of the hot climate. Cold would make it a lot easier.
Title: Re: Micro Grid Tie Units Feedback
Post by: nueview on August 04, 2011, 07:17:05 PM
i have done allot of work with heat and i am again making another type of heater it uses wood to provide friction to a cylinder and it is very interesting that it follows along the same lines as magnetic heaters so i am guessing there is a similar reaction taking place.
i would not have been doing this without having read an article by Walter Russel about carbon tubes or fibers which is basically a wood grain were he stated that the magnetic spin passes along the fiber but the charge is spun off in the process. along with this is the fact that many static machines generate high potential in the same general way.
so far i am to the testing and there is little wood consumed getting to the lower temperatures but as the wood reaches above 240F it begins to squeal and there is a repid heat rise i believe this occurs because of some state of change getting ready to occur in the wood fibers such as charingand the cylinder is generally at about 200F at this time. it is interesting to note how the various metals respond to generated heating done this way the aluminum transfers and disopates heat at a much improved rate and this i was not expecting.
all in all it seems to be the best way of extracting energy from wood i have found to date as the wood consumption is low for the energy output provided in my first test i got to 650F
my new test started with a 1/3 hp motor drawing about 2.7 amps but the rpm are low about 450 and the only 3450 rpm motor i have is 1 hp so i am using it now at a rotor speed of 850 rpm this does not seem fast enough yet to match the frequency of the vibration of the wood squeal which i am looking to match for a form of cavitation.
there is just allot to keep track of so one step at a time.
Martin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN1BXx-zXLA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS3SSeFbyds&NR=1