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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 188622 times)

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #555 on: April 09, 2006, 11:37:14 AM »
You are right, it takes energy to put the stator back down, but, that stator in Torbay's design goes down BEFORE the rotor magnets get to it...not after

This means that the 3 rotor magnets never reach that GAP point that is made by the lifted stator, for as they approach that stator that is lifted, it is brought down before they reach AND at the same time the next stator in line is lifted, so now the rotor wants to move to that NEW GAP point, and the process continues.

So the question of energy is if the rotor's force it uses to reach that GAP is greater than the force needed to lower that stator. And, it is...

Tao

Stator in Torbay's design goes down WHILE the rotor magnets get to it...not before or after.

And think little on the angels (alpha) on stator magnets, and (beta) on rotor magnets.
That Torbay mention in the operation principles they are important to the function of the device.

                                                                                           tommy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #555 on: April 09, 2006, 11:37:14 AM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #556 on: April 09, 2006, 03:12:34 PM »
I have not yet tried calling, since I don?t speak spanish.. just tried to email Torbay. But Omnibus said, he tried to call him. But I posted in several Argentina forums for help locating the old video...but even the people who said, the video from the motor on the lawn was faked, did not repky, that they still have it on their harddrive.... These Argentina guys seems to be pretty lazzy...I can?t believe it....

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #557 on: April 09, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »
Hablas espangnol,mucho biene !(summ,summ,summ,Bien-chen ...)
I think when we do a concentrated search we will get success:
using the different chambers of commerce(fuer DE die AHK Buenos Aires) !

Inside the peswiki-pages there is a picture with Walter Torbay and the
two prototypes beside !

Sincerely
          de Lanca

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #557 on: April 09, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »
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Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #558 on: April 09, 2006, 05:46:40 PM »
Tao

I have not seen any angles of the right kind in your femm files.

I don?t think your idea with a diametrical ring magnet will work.
All that you have shown is some femm sim at one angel.
When you do a full 360 degree 3D femm sim then maybe.
And when you show a working prototype and been in papers
and people verify you then I believe (like I do Torbay).
And when I have seen it I know.

We will know better when they get the patent tomorrow I hope.

                                                                 tommy

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #559 on: April 09, 2006, 09:29:43 PM »

feb2006 - i have the following problims with your statements :) not in a bad way mind you ... i just dont understand your logic :)



I don?t think your idea with a diametrical ring magnet will work. - why not (sont just give an oppinion. give us evidence why so that your theory can be looked into.

All that you have shown is some femm sim at one angel. - from all i have seen in femm. it only does one 2d

When you do a full 360 degree 3D femm sim then maybe. - femm cannot do 3d sims and you can't expect everyone else to do your homework for you. :)

And when you show a working prototype and been in papers - local news paper may or may not print this story. but on a national level it will never happen!

and people verify you then I believe (like I do Torbay). - do you believe in torbay's design? and i agree the best way to prove it is through eyewitness...... but even then people will only say it was staged

And when I have seen it I know. - you gonna come over to my house in ohio to see it? (once it is done?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

only when we stop bickering and talking about "if" it works and so on will we replicate this (or any other) device. is there any way that we can reduce the noise in this thread to possative posting? people are trying to accomplish something here. i for one have asked several "real" questions and have not been answered because of these tangents and issues of validacy.

i again ask if anyone more familiar with the femm program and how it works can run a sim showing the set of neos that i have found and am using in a vertical possition attop the stator arms. (see the last couple of pages for details and demensions) i would greatly appreacheate it even if i can't spell it.





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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #559 on: April 09, 2006, 09:29:43 PM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #560 on: April 09, 2006, 09:36:08 PM »
tao - you could scale them down and post them on a grid (callage) scale them so that details can be seen though.... maybe use several pages. and then zip them all together. i for one would love to see some of the sims you have been talking about and appreaciate your hard work!

thanks

danny

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #561 on: April 10, 2006, 02:41:25 AM »
Dragan Kovac,a citizen who lives(probably) in Germany,
has an invention,publicated in patent form as DE10320109/WO2004100349.
He describes an arrangement,with bulbs.

The use of bulbs are often the reference for proof-of-concept tests by many OU-Inventors for example Moray,Lutec(actually) and more !

Mister Kovac used 200W/230V bulbs.

He lists as example(in connection):
 1bulb? ?total consume 0,9 AMP
 5bulbs? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0,36? ? ? =82W
10bulbs? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0,26? ? ? = 58W
20bulbs? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0,2? ? ? ? =45W
30bulbs? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0,18? ? ? =41W
up to 50 bulbs.

Test-result:more bulbs-use less AMPere-consume !!!

Articles 0005/0006 in his publication mean:THINK BIG !!!THINK GLOBAL !!!

Sincerely
? ? ? ? ? ? de Lanca

p.s.:This explains the possibility that all/many OU-devices are Under-Unity,
      only the right charge/resistor combination let receive the wished
      OU-success !!!
       

« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 03:28:37 AM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #561 on: April 10, 2006, 02:41:25 AM »
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Offline FredWalter

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #562 on: April 10, 2006, 02:48:00 AM »
I have been comtemplating the easiest way to setup a prototype considering I don't have a band saw or drill press.

You could post your approximate address and see if there is anyone here near you with a workshop with those tools, that would be willing to let you use his tools to make a prototype (or perhaps even help make a prototype).

Fred in Southwestern Ontario, Canada

Offline georgemay

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #563 on: April 10, 2006, 03:28:18 AM »

Articles 0005/0006 in his publication mean:THINK BIG !!!THINK GLOBAL !!!

Sincerely
            de Lanca


Hi de Lanca,

Are you suggesting that I should build the prototype with 400 or so magnets?  :)

Geo

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #563 on: April 10, 2006, 03:28:18 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #564 on: April 10, 2006, 03:31:59 AM »
You shall build a functional permanent/electro magnet motor(/generator),
and then as next step the Kovac-process !

S
? dL
 
p.s.:The society e-systems of the future will not be "magnet-orientated" !
? ? ? ?and you,GEO,please, begin your personal-need-dependant !

      or,in memoriam ex-BigBlue:Work(/Begin) local !!!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 04:10:50 AM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #565 on: April 10, 2006, 04:22:32 AM »
Danny,
shall you read the Kango IIda "Hydraulik Converter"publication and understand the resume,
then read the LI YNG TYAN invention,something like a " bifiliar" motor arrangement,then you get probably the imagination of "force amplification" !
F=mxa (translatory/linear/rotatory independant)

Sincerely
? ? ? ? ? ? de Lanca

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #565 on: April 10, 2006, 04:22:32 AM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #566 on: April 10, 2006, 06:16:56 AM »
sorry de lanca i dont have the first idea what most books like these are talking about... Ive said it several times. I am no scientist. i dont have the education or experience that most of you have. i have a great ability to understand things upon examination but i do not know most of the words or theories or inventers or publications............ that you all have come to know through time and experience and education. just a simple guy trying to learn a new thing!

so when you say look at those books.... no i probably wont.... just so i can avoid the headache that will soon follow. if you can give me the complete and total idiots version of those publications then i would be greatfull. i have done good to learn this motor as i had no idea what a stator was (still not sure) ...... anyways my point is i have learned as much as i am able for one month. i think taking a week to learn and understand this motor is good. and i am giving my brain a break while i build the thing. once i am done with the torbay motor i will be glad to dive head first into any pulication anyone wants to put in my way........ but my brain is on strike for now :) thanks anyways

danny

Offline orionjf

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #567 on: April 10, 2006, 06:18:28 AM »
Hi everybody,
The first real test I did is not good enough. Actually, it is bad ?:'(. But I am happy because I have tested important issues and I learnt something about this.
The push down force is too strong. If I change the push point for decreasing this force, the torque available to do it at this time decreases too ???? I think use only one rotor and one magnet can be useful for measuring but not for working (I didn?t test rotors with bar or cylinder with diameter magnetization and I can?t do it before 2 or 3 weeks due to magnets delivery time).
But, at the other hand, due to experiments, I see new possibilities and, maybe, explanations about the original device. For instance:
- It?s critical the point to push down the stator. Probably is one of the keys for success (if it do). Simulation seems to conclude that this point is between the last magnet before gap and before the stator magnet reaches the middle of the stator that is pushing.down and the real model confirm it. Then, the best case will be that maximum of torque will be done at minimum of pushing force. This is impossible with one magnet only in the rotor but ? not impossible with two or three magnets in the rotor. This can be like an oscillator and requires a very good syncronism to reach this ?resonance? freq. alternating maximum torque with minimum pushing force. If we using another magnet for lifting (I think, it is not necessary probably), we have THREE magnets in the rotor. Anybody does sound like something?
- We are mixing forces, torques, works ? but each one has to consider in particular cases and then to compare similar magnitudes. For instance, the main issue, that is the push down force. This force, applied in ?vertical? has the same direction of stator movement, that is, the work is F*H (H is the height of lifted stator from the initial position). This force is applied by a ?cap? with a ramp with angle alpha, for instance. If the ramp is smooth (alpha small) Fr (Force against ramp) is small but the ramp length L is large therefore F*H=Fr*L and you don?t have a lot of space for pushing down because of torque losses in the next step. In the other hand, a sharp and short ramp needs a large Fr that brakes the rotor. There will be an optimal ratio between torque and ramp shape, and between them and the point for pushing down. Too complicated if ?papers? are used only. Probably test model can help for tuning.
- When an stator is lifted, there is a "violent" movement with a very clear energy that we don?t use. If this energy could be stored (by springs, for instance) and reused to push down, it will be great. If springs, it requires a perfect syncronism for timming the "stator bounced" just into push down point. (Its a very "nice" diferential equation to solve in paper).
I?m afraid my first prototype is too rough for these tests and tuning and I have to rebuild it. I recommend to build prototypes (only with a few stators and one rotor is enough) and play with all issues. I hope somebody can make progress in any direction. We have to be optimistic because, in any case, there is always something to learn.
Regards.

Offline maxwellsdemon

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #568 on: April 10, 2006, 10:39:13 AM »
The 'kick' up should be equal in force to the resistance to pushing down- if you're only looking at the stator magnets interacting with each other.
A well-designed spring system would even this out so you only need a little nudge to knock a magnet out and another little nudge to knock it back in.

But- if you look at the interaction of the stator magnets with the rotor, because the rotor has moved, it is resisting the stator magnet's return more strongly
than it was assisting its elevation.
  You will find that the amount by which those two forces differ is the same as the forward force on the rotor.

I'm not saying to take my word for it- by all means build your models and do the tests...

I have seen the FEMM sims posted here but none of them are legitimate, because they are only calculating one force- the rotor being pushed toward the gap.
This is not the only force at work, and without simulating the forces on all moving parts over a whole cycle, a torque calculation is meaningless.
This might be possible with Maxwell 3D, but not with FEMM.

It's possible to make just about anything look like a perpetual motion machine in your head if you just ignore half of the forces at work...

Offline treb79

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #569 on: April 10, 2006, 11:59:35 AM »
Yes, a well designed spring system, Although as I stated earlier, when the spring pushing the stator magnet back in is at maximum extension(weakest force), the repulsion force of the stator magnet is greatest. Two oposite nonlinear forces. The only way would be a complex system of linkages to modify the  force of the springs to somewhat match the force curve of the stator magnets. A difficult undertaking. Good luck.

 

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