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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 188582 times)

Offline orionjf

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #525 on: April 08, 2006, 08:17:00 PM »
Another view

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #525 on: April 08, 2006, 08:17:00 PM »

Offline orionjf

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #526 on: April 08, 2006, 08:18:26 PM »
Last view (Rotor details)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #527 on: April 08, 2006, 08:33:14 PM »
Hi orionjf 
well done !
I hope you can soon confirm, that this motor works !
Please keep us informed also about negative results, if there would
be any.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #527 on: April 08, 2006, 08:33:14 PM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #528 on: April 08, 2006, 08:51:30 PM »
mine works but wuickly stopped (probably degaused becuase now the magnets i used are not near as strong as they were before.

can somebody tell me what kind of magnets it is that i used....... (ceramic, ferit, neodim. etc)

i used magnets obtained from harddrives, easily broken into sharp shards and are light grey on the inside (ceramic??)

the bar magnets i used i obtained from old dicount stor signs, where mounted to the bottom so that the sign would stick to the cloths rack.... they are dark grey almost black inside and out and are not so easy to break but a good toss across the room will do it. they are hard remind me of a chalkboard.  their magnetic attraction is ok about half an inch from each other and you start to notice the pull if held in your hands.


what magnets are these? is this why it becomes degaused so quickly? what kinds of devices would i find these other magnets neodims and such in so that i can find some and extract them. (as i have said my budjet is limited so i am trying to create a model that requires no financing. for.... scietific reasons of course!...... yeah......uh...... ok ill shut up now)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #529 on: April 08, 2006, 08:52:27 PM »
Here is the same simulation as the last one,
except the rotor bar magnet is half as long
and it confirms Tao?s information, that this
has only half the torque, instead of 1.4 Nm
only 0.7 Newtonmeter !
So Tao is right, that the other pole helps to
double the torque.

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #529 on: April 08, 2006, 08:52:27 PM »
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Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #530 on: April 08, 2006, 08:52:55 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Here are a few notes concerning the demagnetization of magnets. The way to reduce the effect is to simply not force the magnets too close to each other. If you check the BH curves for most materials, it shows the critical field strength for which the magnet will start to weaken. The reason NEO magnets hold their strength so well is because the BH curve is linear for the most part whereas materials like Ceramic and Alnico have non-linear curves. In the case of the Torbay motor, since we want the magnets to be close to get the most repulsive effect, I suggest that we just go with Neos for the stator and rotor, and also try to use the same sized Neos in both the stators and rotors so that they will be evenly matched magnetically. But if you do use a bar magnet like in Stefan?s simulations, it could greatly improve the demagnetization problem because the north pole attracting to the stators can actually remagnetize the magnets over time.

God Bless,
Jason O

P.S. Stefan, I also noted that the strongest force was when the gap was at 90 degrees to the rotor magnet.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #531 on: April 08, 2006, 09:03:09 PM »
Hi Jason, I agree totally, don?t use for the first prototype
to close distances between stator and rotor magnets,
I guess the distance should be at least 5mm and it will
have a positive effect, if you use a long bar magnet as shown
in my second last simulation picture, which attracts the one side of the magnets,
so attraction and repellation comes after each other again and again.
This will not weaken the magnets too soon !

Also it might be, as Neodym magnets are conductive,
that these will have eddy currents inside them which might
make them weaker, but this has to be tested.
Maybe the first rebuilders could test, if the magnets get
warm during operation of the motor ?
If they will get warm, this is a sign of eddy currents
inside the magnets and then only nonconductive magnets will
work... But I guess for now Neodym magnets will
be okay for the first prototypes as they also can be got pretty cheaply
these days via Ebay.


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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #531 on: April 08, 2006, 09:03:09 PM »
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Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #532 on: April 08, 2006, 09:04:15 PM »
Hi Silverdragonrs,

Based on your description, it appears that the black magnets you were using were weak ferrites. Most hard drive magnets nowadays are Neos so I'm guessing that?s what you had. And yes it would be expected that a neo (even a small one) can instantly kill any thin ferrite magnets (especially ones thin like refrigerator ones). You can find some more Neos from old hard drives and also online for cheap if you get small ones. If you can't find any Neos, I would suggest using ceramic block magnets like they carry at RadioShack. Just make sure that you use the same kind/size mags in both the stator and rotor so they won't demagnetize each other as fast. But refrigerator magnets are a big no no, they will die almost instantly in the presence of a neo.

God Bless,
Jason O

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #533 on: April 08, 2006, 09:11:55 PM »
a large factory just redid the computers and i got all of their old ones (ever heard of airborne express shipping?) i now have well over 500 harddrives that are useless. i had a fealing about them so i kept them all...... im a packrat... so yeah i have plenty of neos... averaging two to four per harddrive. so yeah ill have between 1000 and 1500 neos available... the hard part is the hand cramp taking them all apart... and the magnets are usually glued down so removal (without breaking the magnet) is averaging around 80% success rate.

if anyone needs a few i would be glad to share... (but you got to pay shipping as i have 35 cents to my name)

thanks,
danny

ps i forgot to mention that i did not have a problem with the harddrive magnets just the bar magnets

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #533 on: April 08, 2006, 09:11:55 PM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #534 on: April 08, 2006, 09:16:13 PM »
i have plenty of rescourses so i am going to rebuild again from scratch... this time i will not bolt it down to the workshop bench :) and instead keep it mobile. i completely forgot i have a webcam on this computer (im usually on the ones in the workshop) so once i get it going i will provide video... give me a day to redo everything.

thanks
danny

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #535 on: April 08, 2006, 09:18:54 PM »
hartiberlin - can you do a femm sim on a settup using 1/8 inch thick neos standing virticle on the stator. (flat side pointing at rotor)

thanks

danny

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #535 on: April 08, 2006, 09:18:54 PM »
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Offline orionjf

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #536 on: April 08, 2006, 09:27:30 PM »
Then we have the first issues:
- NdFeB magnets only
- Distant between rotor and stator as a important design parameter.
- Different magnetization power between rotor and stator.
The last issue is a problem: if you have similar rotor and stator magnets, the work you need to push down stators looks like similar to torque (experiments seem to confirm it). If different (rotor bar for instance), we would have a "better net torque" (simulations and experiments confirm it) but a potential demagnetization proccess can be done. I think it is very important to model demagnetization versus field stress.
PD. A "better net torque" doesn?t mean a positive net torque that means the device works. It is not confirmed yet.

Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #537 on: April 08, 2006, 09:29:14 PM »
hartiberlin - can you do a femm sim on a settup using 1/8 inch thick neos standing virticle on the stator. (flat side pointing at rotor)

thanks

danny

What are the dimensions of the neos?

Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #538 on: April 08, 2006, 09:31:02 PM »
Then we have the first issues:
- NdFeB magnets only
- Distant between rotor and stator as a important design parameter.
- Different magnetization power between rotor and stator.
The last issue is a problem: if you have similar rotor and stator magnets, the work you need to push down stators looks like similar to torque (experiments seem to confirm it). If different (rotor bar for instance), we would have a "better net torque" (simulations and experiments confirm it) but a potential demagnetization proccess can be done. I think it is very important to model demagnetization versus field stress.
PD. A "better net torque" doesn?t mean a positive net torque that means the device works. It is not confirmed yet.

If you know what kind of neo or ceramic magnets you have, you can look up the demagnetization information on any magnet manufacturer's website. Thats what I was mentioning earlier concerning BH curves. Also, if demagnetization becomes a big issue later, then it may be better to simply run the motor in attraction mode.

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #539 on: April 08, 2006, 09:35:19 PM »
harddrive neo - 1/8 inch thick, aprox 1.2 centimeters by 2 centimeters (originally had curves but have been filed down to this size <---- don't know if that would effect the power of the magnet or not, just had trouble moutning on curve)

 

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