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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 188586 times)

Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #345 on: April 03, 2006, 05:13:47 PM »
Potential problem?

 Just trying to stay ahead of the problems...what do you think? We can find rectangle magnets that are correct, but they won't be shaped the way we need them to be.

PS: do we need to start a new thread? If we are intruding on this thread, we can start a new post...sorry for hi-jacking this?

EDIT: should say "may be too close and CAUSE the rotor to stick"

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #345 on: April 03, 2006, 05:13:47 PM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #346 on: April 03, 2006, 05:19:24 PM »
jaybird, I have 11 RadioShack magnets glued on the inside of a circle made of a magnetic tape. Looks similar to your drawing. The problem is how to make magnets concave as you've shown in the picture.

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #347 on: April 03, 2006, 05:26:38 PM »
Potential problem?

 Just trying to stay ahead of the problems...what do you think? We can find rectangle magnets that are correct, but they won't be shaped the way we need them to be.

PS: do we need to start a new thread? If we are intruding on this thread, we can start a new post...sorry for hi-jacking this?

EDIT: should say "may be too close and CAUSE the rotor to stick"

I think it willbe quite hard to arced magnets that will exactly fit our needs, unless we base our design on those arcs (which i wouldn't prefer...) What we could do i suppose is use quite a few of little ones standing up something like IIIIIIIIII. All those small ones can be placed in a fairly good circle shape i presume.
Do you want to start a new thread on this board or maybe on yahoo groups ?

Btw, I've got Sketchup 3d here too. Looks like a good tool to draw the designs in.
Jay, have you got any idea about the dimensions of those stator segment. I looked at some U frames that are 25*25*25 mm (2 mm thick alu). That would need a circle of 12.7 cm diameter. It looks like we might be able to fit a hdd platter inside that circle too.... Is that along the way you were thinking?

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #347 on: April 03, 2006, 05:26:38 PM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #348 on: April 03, 2006, 06:45:15 PM »
I only see one issue.  If there are magnets on the rotor facing the stator magnets N to N; as you said, the magnet will quickly move to the gap and lock up between stator magnets.  Even if one magnet is out of the way, the other two magnets will move only to the gap between the other stator magnets and lock up the motor.  I believe that the magnets on the rotor that you refer to were mounted above the stator magnets on the rotor and were used to push the magnets down to the resting position, not for propulsion.  I do not believe that it is possible to use them in the rotor for the above reason.  However, if you use the stator magnets to provide the repulsive magnetic field in a steel rotor, I believe that the motor will work, or if a magnet is on the rotor, it should be attached to the steel rotor plate.
Just my opinion, but a simple test can show you this.  Use 3 magnets of the same pole.  Space two of them about 2 or 3 inches apart (stationary magnets) and hold the 3rd magnet in hand in between the two stationary magnets.  Either way you go, you will hit the magnetic repel field of the stationary magnets.  It will want to rest in between the two magnets.  This enough to lock up the motor or at least cause it to perform poorly or not at all.

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #349 on: April 03, 2006, 07:07:19 PM »
Hey guys, I think we may be putting the wagon in front of the horses...

We may need to find the MAGNETS (size and shape) we need first, THEN design the sizes accordingly. I am looking now.


Also, we may want to design the first out of soft wood, even balsa...so that it can be worked easily, and parts can even be cut without expensive tools (even hand tools)...when we get a design that works (or close) we can progress to a metal design.
Jay

Yes find magnets first, i agree.
Balsa wood and strong magnets ? I think  you need harder wood.
Maybe make a mould and cast it in epoxy or something.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #349 on: April 03, 2006, 07:07:19 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #350 on: April 03, 2006, 07:07:50 PM »
liberty and tao, I think the functioning of the motor is already clear and it?s not productive to continue discussing issues that have already been discussed and clarified. The thread is becoming too heavy so let?s focus on realizing the project.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #351 on: April 03, 2006, 07:11:23 PM »
I?m trying to use eMachineShop but it doesn?t seem that flexible. Has anyone used it before? Would it be possible to make the drawings with what appears more sophisticated SketchUp 3D and have them sent for machining to eMachineShop or there are better ideas? Also, machining at eMachineShop seems pretty expensive, doesn't it?

Regarding magnets,do you think they appear concave in the pictures of Torbay's motor? Maybe we could do without that. Machining magnets is a task from hell.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #351 on: April 03, 2006, 07:11:23 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #352 on: April 03, 2006, 07:24:10 PM »
Final design in my opinion is the one suggested by Torbay. Eight (or sixteen as in the patent) stator magnets with levers, beveled at the bottom and with small wheels on top. Three rotor magnets attached on a 9.5cm HD disc, a larger wheel attached appropriately ahead of the three rotor magnets and a motor cap attached to the rotor with an appropriate opening and a sloping ramp.

As far as I can tell none of the proposed slight modifications can beat original Torbay's design so far.

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #353 on: April 03, 2006, 07:25:58 PM »
So, Omnibus, what is the FINAL design, the final theory, that we are to replicate then?

I didn't see any one post where everyone agreed, maybe I missed it. Please help, thanks!

Were gonna do this guys!!

Awesome...

Tao

Reply #100 on: March 25, 2006, 09:21:04 PM


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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #353 on: April 03, 2006, 07:25:58 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #354 on: April 03, 2006, 07:41:11 PM »
Quote
Alrighty, lets get this thing licked...

Just imagine it working... The smiles on our faces, the black helicopters above our houses, lol

Like I said, the thread is overburdened and there's no place especially for tasteless jokes.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #355 on: April 03, 2006, 07:58:41 PM »
Final design in my opinion is the one suggested by Torbay. Eight (or sixteen as in the patent) stator magnets with levers, beveled at the bottom and with small wheels on top. Three rotor magnets attached on a 9.5cm HD disc, a larger wheel attached appropriately ahead of the three rotor magnets and a motor cap attached to the rotor with an appropriate opening and a sloping ramp.

As far as I can tell none of the proposed slight modifications can beat original Torbay's design so far.

I wish you well in your attempts and bid you farewell.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #355 on: April 03, 2006, 07:58:41 PM »
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Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #356 on: April 03, 2006, 08:05:17 PM »
Quote
liberty: I wish you well in your attempts and bid you farewell.

Liberty, please don't be offended and leave, we will need your help. NO ONE has stated that we are concrete on a final design that I was aware of either...I think Omnibus has decided and cast his vote for that particular design, but we should all propose, then perhaps decide and even vote... or else we lose our cohesivness and cannot multiply our efforts...please feel free to pitch in on a new thread I am creating.

Quote
omnibus: Like I said, the thread is overburdened and there's no place especially for tasteless jokes.

speaking of overburdened...please lighten up a little omnibus...I thought it was funny  ;D

Since we may be stretching this thread to its max, I'll start a new thread (will have to finish it later after I get back from a job) called "Torbay Replication effort"...please everyone feel free to join the thread and lets decide on a concrete design or design(s)...

Thanks everyone for your cooperation!  ;D

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #357 on: April 03, 2006, 08:09:52 PM »
No, jaybird, tao's remark wasn't funny and he had to hear it clearly. If he's not polite he should hear it.

On the final design -- I think you're right, since no new proposals are in sight let's vote.

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #358 on: April 03, 2006, 08:45:25 PM »
I think my design in Reply #305 is simpler, only one wheel on each stator piece to do the lifting and down puch
no wheel on the rotor no bevel on each stator piece only a up ramp a down ramp and hold down on the rotor (motor) cap.

 Tommy,

   Sorry, my previous response fired off prematurely.
I like your design, but there's only one part of it that troubles me: Every time the wheel traverses
from the rotor holddown to the upramp, and again from the upramp to the downramp, the wheel
is instantaeously obliged to reverse ITS direction of rotation. This effect will certainly act as a
brake to the whole motor, analogous to turbine RETROjets utilized in commercial jet aircraft immediately after
touchdown which contribute to deceleration.
                                                                                 

U can use two weels on the stator.
 Butt i think i use Torbay's design first or maybe not havent decided yet.
I think this is a great way to share ideas and we all dont have to build the motor the exact same way.
 And a litle humour is no harm .   
                                                     Take care.            tommy                                                                                       

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #359 on: April 03, 2006, 08:53:55 PM »

I am convinced that the motor works/looks like this:

The rotor has three magnets(N pointing toward stator magnets) on it like the pictures and patents show, and all around the stator are magnets (N pointing toward rotor) that are on wood or metal pieces with a triangle formation on their bottoms so they can be lifted by the rotor as it moves.

The KEY to this motor and the reason it works is due to the fact that a stator magnet if LIFTED. This lifting happens BEFORE the three rotor magnets get near that lifted magnet and the magnet if lifted ABOVE all the stator magnet so that there isn't any interactions.

The reason the magnet lifting is the KEY is detailed below:
Just as Jason O pionted out with one of his pictures, when you have a complete circle of magnets with all N poles facing inward and you place one rotor magnet inside with N pole facing the stators, nothing happens!
BUT, when you take out one of those stator magnets what you have now if a semi-circle of stator magnets pointing N poles inward and if you place that same rotor magnet inside with N pole facing the stators that magnet will move QUICKLY TO THE GAP that was created by lifting that one stator magnet, because it has a way out from the N<->N repulsions!


Okay, I totally agree.

Quote

So in the Argentina motor, we have a situation where a cat is chasing it's tail and can NEVER catch it.

Right.

Quote
It is the act of CONSTANTLY lifting a stator magnet that makes the three rotor magnets MOVE TO THE GAP (AKA THE MAGNET YOU JUST LIFTED). I think it would be safe to say that you could lift the stator magnet that is TWO MAGNETS away (as opposed to the exact next magnet as the patent shows) from the rotor's current position and the device would still work, becuase those rotor magnets would want to get to that gap point.

Also, as long as you don't put down that lifted stator magnet BEFORE you lift the NEXT one then the device will keep on "chasing it's tail!!"

Exactly. it does not need to be exactly in front of the rotor, but it can also be a few more stator magnets away.


Quote
So all the design requires it a stator with liftable magnets, the rotor with the two/three rotor magnets, and the RAMP that is on the rotor that lift the oncoming stator magnets one by one. That is oversimplified, but shows the basic and main features that are needed!

Right, Tao,
also it would be sufficient, if the rotor cap ( lid-cap) is able to hold down all the stator magnet
and only one stator magnet is automatically lifted by the huge repelling forces, where the
lid-cap has a hole (break) in it.
If the rotor lid-cap turns, every next stator magnet will pop up
due to the repelling forces and the ramp on the lid-cap will
force the already lifted statormagnet to go down again under the lid-cap.
This way there need not to be any wheel or springs, just stator magnets
on a fullcrum, that go automatically up due to the reppeling forces
when the lidcap hole reaches them.

This is then much simpler !
I wonder, how many RPM such a design can get and how loud it runs,
as it will make a permanent noise as the stator magnets pop up and
go down one after the other.....

Too bad, no Argentina user has yet found the AVI files from Torbay in any
Argentina Forum. Can you please again ask in spanish language for the AVI video
files in all related Argentina forums please ?
Many thanks.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 11:20:56 PM by hartiberlin »

 

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