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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 188588 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #285 on: April 01, 2006, 12:37:07 PM »
I understand 12a.jpg is under construction but it appears the magnet will be underneath the triangle when finished. In the back of the picture one sees these modules turned aroung as part of the assembled motor. Also, the small wheel isn't mounted which would help pushing the magnet sloping down when in contact with the motor cap.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter where the magnets are going to be, on top of triangle or at the bottom. The important thing is that now it seems we understand what the principle of lifting of the stator magnets is -- the triangles being immovably attached to the stator magnets.

Another thing which seems to be clear already is that there are no springs but because of the repulsive forces among the stator magnets, when lifted they stay where they are until the moment the motor cap ("sist. de descenso controlado" attached to the rotor) starts pushing them sloping down.

What needs to be understood more is what exactly the shape of the motor cap is which forces the stator magneds sloping down.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 01:02:33 PM by Omnibus »

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #285 on: April 01, 2006, 12:37:07 PM »

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #286 on: April 01, 2006, 01:18:44 PM »
A wooden rotor cap  variant can look like this (see picture).
Or you can have a aluminium rotor cap in the right shape.
Its only a engineering question.
Only non magnetic material exept the magnets of course.

Its a (triangular) ramp on the rotor cap thats push down the arm
and then the rotor cap holds down the arm (against repulsion by magnets) until its turn to rise.
The important is timing of the arms.
For the timing have a look att msg5649 and msg5650.

Quote msg5653

"That's correct. When the three rotor magnets are exactly facing three of the stator magnets only one magnet is raised. At the moments before the second picture (between the first and the second picture) there are two displaced magnets -- one which is on its way down and another one on its way up."

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #287 on: April 01, 2006, 02:19:31 PM »
Another thing which seems to be clear already is that there are no springs but because of the repulsive forces among the stator magnets, when lifted they stay where they are until the moment the motor cap ("sist. de descenso controlado" attached to the rotor) starts pushing them sloping down.

Hi Omnibus,

I can agree with you about the motor cap being the thing that pushes the lifted stator magnet back down (due to a slope in the cap i guess). But i also think that there still will be a spring in play. It should keep the stator magnet down once it has descended. If there isn't one then the stator magnet might pop back up because it's head on with the rotor magnets (which cant move up). So i guess there might be a spring alongside with the controlled descending system. How else would the stator magnet stay down?

Dutchy

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #287 on: April 01, 2006, 02:19:31 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #288 on: April 01, 2006, 02:28:55 PM »
Feb2006, so, the motor cap ("sist. de descenso controlado" attached to the rotor) holds down most of the stator magnets all the time. Except for that particular stator magnet which is to be raised (the raising, due to the repulsive forces but also being assisted by another ramp ? the triangular one) when the motor cap in your last picture suddenly ends and except for the stator magnet next to it which is being pushed sloping down by the bevel of the motor cap shown in the picture.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #289 on: April 01, 2006, 02:32:44 PM »
Quote
But i also think that there still will be a spring in play. It should keep the stator magnet down once it has descended. If there isn't one then the stator magnet might pop back up because it's head on with the rotor magnets (which cant move up). So i guess there might be a spring alongside with the controlled descending system. How else would the stator magnet stay down?
 

dutchy1966, see the last picture of Feb2006. That construction takes care of descended magnets popping up without springs ? it appears that the motor cap holds down most of the stator magnets all the time, except for these two stator magnets that have to be raised and lowered.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #289 on: April 01, 2006, 02:32:44 PM »
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Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #290 on: April 01, 2006, 03:07:30 PM »
Quote
"Except for that particular stator magnet which is to be raised (the raising, due to the repulsive forces but also being assisted by another ramp ? the triangular one)"

the raising arm have no repulsive forces(maybe a werry week one)
only the arm thats going down will have repulsive force from
the approaching rotor magnets.

Offline Feb2006

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #291 on: April 01, 2006, 03:29:06 PM »
Quote
But i also think that there still will be a spring in play. It should keep the stator magnet down once it has descended. If there isn't one then the stator magnet might pop back up because it's head on with the rotor magnets (which cant move up). So i guess there might be a spring alongside with the controlled descending system. How else would the stator magnet stay down?
 

dutchy1966, see the last picture of Feb2006. That construction takes care of descended magnets popping up without springs ? it appears that the motor cap holds down most of the stator magnets all the time, except for these two stator magnets that have to be raised and lowered.

exactly no spring in Torbays motor, maybe it will work with a spring somehow.

I would do the rising of the arm slightly different.


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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #291 on: April 01, 2006, 03:29:06 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #292 on: April 01, 2006, 03:31:30 PM »
I didn't mean the arm has repulsive forces. What I meant was the repulsive forces among the stator magnets. Anyway, these are details. I guess the main idea is already pretty clear. What remains is to figure out the concrete dimensions of the details so that they can be machined, put together and tried.

Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #293 on: April 01, 2006, 05:14:29 PM »
I didn't mean the arm has repulsive forces. What I meant was the repulsive forces among the stator magnets. Anyway, these are details. I guess the main idea is already pretty clear. What remains is to figure out the concrete dimensions of the details so that they can be machined, put together and tried.

Yep, that's right. Anyone already figured out what size the whole engine is? I think it's a good idea to agree on a size and come to a building plan together. That way everyone has the same info and at the sametime the information is spread around the world. (Just in case it is as good as claimed for!)
Lets work together here....

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #293 on: April 01, 2006, 05:14:29 PM »
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Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #294 on: April 01, 2006, 05:32:40 PM »
Quote
the rotor cap is the ?sist. de descenso controlado? in the general view of the motor (prototipo en corte.jpg on page 25) and not the ?tapa? as you?ve indicated in your schematic.

...slip of grey matter...thats right, it is the system to control the lowering of the magnet levers.

 Got in a few magnets today...they are some that I had already ordered before this project, but I am still working on this as time allows...

dutchy1966:? thats a good idea...I am willing.




? I dont think that there are 2 so-different motors as Omnibus stated above....I see the metal example in the same manner as the wooden prototype, (save a few improvements), a slightly different rotor setup...the one made from wood needed a longer axle to keep it from wobbling perhaps since there is more gap in a wooden prototype....and a few odds and ends.
? I dont see the magnets in the metal prototype's lever arms below the "ramp"...they lie flat on top of the triangular "ramp" just as in the wooden one.

Omnibus, that rotor drawing made me stop and think.....still thinking...maybe a new process...

? I am in it for the count now....main focus will be this replicaton, shelving others for now....

I do not see any size constraints, and I see that there are 3 different prototypes Torbay made...1 small metal, one Large metal, and probably a first wooden model...all different sizes...so we can assume the principle works to scale perhaps and decide on a size:
       I am proposing a nice round 4 or 6" inch diameter figure.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2006, 05:43:48 PM »
Quote
I think it's a good idea to agree on a size and come to a building plan together. That way everyone has the same info and at the sametime the information is spread around the world. (Just in case it is as good as claimed for!)
Lets work together here....

That's a great suggestion ... I'm all for it.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2006, 05:43:48 PM »
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Offline dutchy1966

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #296 on: April 01, 2006, 05:52:46 PM »
? ? ? ?I am proposing a nice round 4 or 6" inch diameter figure.

Jaybird:
Are you talking about the size of the whole engine or just the rotor part?
Also we need to work in inches (is it called imperial?) and metric system (thats what we use over here)
I was thinking for the rotor part the use a CD (size) as a base for the rotor, they're cheap, easy for everyone to get hold of and probably easy to glue some magnets on.

Apart from that we need to establish a few other things:
1) How many rotor magnets? There prototypes with 3 and 4 magnets.....
2) How many stator segments, I've seen models with 7 (the wooden one), 8 and even 10 segments

dutchy

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #297 on: April 01, 2006, 05:54:30 PM »
jaybird, you may be right that the differences in the constructions may only be slight.

I was thinking that the stator magnets may be mounted below the triangular ramp, facing the rotor magnets mounted on the reverse side of the rotor plate. Thus, on top of rotor plate there will only be the wheel and the motor cap. Of course, this is just an idea which may not be the best.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #298 on: April 01, 2006, 06:00:05 PM »
clutchy1966, I suggest that we express all dimensions in metric system. Also, there are two CD formats -- 8cm and 12cm diameter.

Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #299 on: April 01, 2006, 07:11:35 PM »
I'm all in...metric is fine, we have to learn both here ??? I have been experimenting with some magnets on the small order, app. equal to an 8cm CD.

 It is surprising what can be learned by just gluing some magnets to an old CD elevated a bit, then trying various positions of the magnets.


Here is the simple setup I am using for this project....You would be surprised how easy it is to make rotation this way, and even better, if you time it right (magnet in each hand) you can get really fast speed.

? There are many many variations to try, below is just a simple sample.... I am working on making 6 craft-stick magnet levers similar to the torbay arms...with a hinged fulcrum...
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 07:38:15 PM by jaybird »

 

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