Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 894681
  • *Total Topics: 15737
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 11
  • *Total: 12

Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 190039 times)

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2006, 10:47:16 PM »
Quote
Actually they have sent to hell Omnibus  Grin Grin Grin as well in another post because they have not understand what he says...

The problem was that the topic http://www.hispaseti.org/foroWanaH/viewtopic.php?t=3314&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0. is closed and I couldn?t post there. I saw another topic http://www.hispaseti.org/foroWanaH/viewtopic.php?p=34915#34915 which seemed to be devoted to the motor in question and I kindly asked them to help me in understanding the principle and finding contact info of the inventor. Instead of addressing these issues they ?sent me to hell? as _GonZo_ puts it and the conversation went nowhere. Of course, unjustified negativism will do nothing more than make the person even more ambitious in getting to the bottom of it.

Now we already know the principle of action of the motor and it doesn?t seem unreasonable as the colleagues from the Spanish forum seemed to unjustifiably imply. Also, the fact that the video doesn?t show the bottom of the device is a minor point which isn?t enough to provide good grounds to outright send the device to hell. It seems to me some other motives are into play here, not exactly connected with scientific exploration.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2006, 10:47:16 PM »

Offline orionjf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2006, 11:44:45 PM »
Omnibus, Gonzo, from my point of view, this topic is completely "burned" in the hispaseti forum because they caught the inventor (or "someone related") and some "support posts" with the same IP address. My advice is forget it (the forum) because people, who feel cheated or misleaded, use to refuse anything else about the topic ("hells included"). This can be reasonable ... or not, but that is.
To make public the IP addresses in some cases could be good ("transparency") ... or not. It?s an admin ethic problem.
Best Regards.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2006, 11:57:02 PM »
Thank you, orionjf for your clarification.

I wonder, however, about something else. If paranoia is to be involved, could it be that the administrator had manipulated the IP addresses of the supporters to appear as the same IP address and thus to compromise easily,  with just one stroke, the inventor?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2006, 11:57:02 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline orionjf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2006, 01:27:17 AM »
Maybe, Omnibus, you?re right ...
Talking about the device, I see a constant goal in these kind of devices: to use less energy for creating an unstable status than the system "gives" moving to the next stable status. Then there is a positive net energy "balance" (energy "extracted" from magnets). The invertor has released a brief force analysis (too much "simple" probably) but it will be a better argument to make an energy analysis. This could be very simple too: If Ec<Ep (Ec Energy for making changes for reaching an unstable status and Ep energy -potential- that cuases the rotor moves to the next stable status) then we can cheer !!!!!!!!!
Best Wishes

Offline _GonZo_

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2006, 01:34:45 AM »

In that Spanish forum they are very unpolite. And they do not deserve much atention. So forget about them...

In my opinion this device does not work, as I explained before. But that does not mean that I do not help you all to translate and help you in your researches as I promised.

I sugest to keep an eye on inventors web page, and time will tell....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2006, 01:34:45 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline hartiberlin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7975
    • free energy research OverUnity.com
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2006, 03:53:17 AM »
Yes, Gonzo,
from what I can understand the Spanish forum people are not very polite, I don?t know
why, cause Omnibus was asking very polite. Maybe they don?t like the English language over there
or they are mostly kids there, I don?t know.
So let?s try to find the video elsewhere and maybe concentrate on a FEMM or Maxwell3D simulation
of the forces at play in this this device, so we can tell, if this thing can really work...
Maybe
Jason can try a quick FEMM simulation cause he knows this program very well, if he has got some
free time..

Otherwise, why would the inventor go through so many prototypes, if it would not work...
I guess he was bought out by the Argentina military black projects already and has stopped
communicating with the Internet or he was bought out by a big company, who wants to
develop a better product in total silence.... we will see, but at least we now know the
function principle from all the data gathered in the last days.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2006, 04:33:55 AM »
Notice what ridiculous arguments against Torbay?s motor are presented in this link, at that, by people devoted to fighting pseudoscience: http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/ . Here is an excerpt translated with the help of BabelFish:

?Anyone with a vague idea of the history of science would know that in many occasions swindlers have appeared alleging to have invented a ?perpetual motion machine". After these innumerable deceits, one should think that we should be more cautious and when one declares to have produced "free energy" some alarms should start sounding. Nothing of that sort happened to the "magnetic motor", invented by Walter Torbay in Mar del Plata, Argentina; when Channel 8 of Mar del Plata as well as several newspapers, radios and tv-channels made an announcement impelled by unprecedented nationalism and exitismo (?).?

Also

?What hasn?t been said in the media is that to magnetize the material comes at a cost. And this cost must be necessarily greater than the energy gain produced by the equipment, unless the "magnetic motor" breaks the laws of the thermodynamics.?

This ?criticism? is methodologically incorrect. No matter what the truth about the reality of Torbay?s claims is denouncing these claims on the basis of previous failures is unfounded. Unfounded is also to require from an experiment necessarily to obey the laws of thermodynamics. The correct argument works in just the opposite way. The laws of thermodynamics have been accepted only because they have not been shown to be violated by any experiment. If an experiment appears, however, which violates the laws of thermodynamics then it is the findings from the experiment that would take precedence. Our understanding of thermodynamics has to change in such a case. This is not to say that Torbay?s claims are necessarily real. They may not be and still the mentioned methodological principle will continue to hold.

Also, never in any thermodynamic or other scientific analyses of energy balance in a machine is the energy to make the machine taken into account.

Therefore, the above critical ?arguments? must be discarded. There may or may not be other arguments against Torbay?s claims but those specific ?arguments?, mentioned above, should necessarily be discarded.

I strongly encouraged the writer of the text in the link to visit personally Torbay and verify whether the motor is indeed self-sustaining. This is not difficult to be done. All the writer has to do is see the rotor turning all by itself for, say, an hour without anyone touching it and without applying external energy. I also asked him to help me get in touch with the inventor so that I can also make an independent assessment of the claim that the motor is self-sustaining.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2006, 04:33:55 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2006, 05:04:19 AM »
Quote
I guess he was bought out by the Argentina military black projects already and has stopped
communicating with the Internet or he was bought out by a big company, who wants to
develop a better product in total silence....

This would be a real tragedy if that were the case. Similar thoughts cross my mind too and I hope I?m wrong.

Also, if this is such a fraud, as some are desperately trying to prove, why are they hiding the inventor? Why don?t they allow us to go see him and his device and verify that it isn?t working. I for one, aside from the claims of the inventor, want to verify also the claims of the critics that it?s a non-working device.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2006, 05:23:28 AM »
I?m trying to find who the correspondents of the Argentinean newspapers accredited in New York are as well as their addresses and phone numbers. I can?t believe that there wouldn?t be at least correspondents of La Nacion and Clarin, the two largest newspapers in Argentina. So far I?m unable to locate them. If anyone has more info in this respect let me know. I?d like to call them or visit them in person on Monday. Any other ideas are also welcome.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #113 on: March 26, 2006, 05:23:28 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline sbassi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #114 on: March 26, 2006, 11:44:39 PM »
Notice what ridiculous arguments against Torbay?s motor are presented in this link, at that, by people devoted to fighting pseudoscience: http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/ . Here is an excerpt translated with the help of BabelFish:

Hello,

I am the author of such news in ASALUP website. We are working on an article with lot of new information.
Since I received a similar question on the website contact address, I will post my reply here.

Quote
On 3/25/06, XXX <xxx@XXX.net> wrote:
> 1) Torbay's motor violates the laws of thermodynamics (especially the first principle). I'd like to remind you, however, that the laws of thermodynamics are only accepted because the experiment so far hasn't shown otherwise. Therefore, the role of the experiment is the primary one, not the laws of thermodynamics. I don't know the details in this particular case and whether it is at all viable. What I'm objecting to is the methodology you apply in assessing its viability. If it happens so that Torbay's motor works it would require correction of our understanding of the laws of Nature and not vice versa. Claiming that we already have the final knowledge of these laws is quite presumptuous.
>

[SB]
From a strict formal point of view, you are right. A fact is a fact,
even if it goes against a law of nature as we know it. But we didn't
argue that Walter's magnetic engine is impossible because of
thermodynamic laws, we said that Walter's magnetic engine does violate
thermodynamic laws, so this should set off some alarms on the mass
media before publish this story. I also said that if this were true,
he wouldn't be working on his basement, because this is so important
that would lead him to the Nobel price.  We also believe that
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. His is showing
his "miraculous device" in TV before doing it in any respectable
scientific journal or scientific society.
He also claimed that he rejected a $350M offer to sell it, this is
also very suspicious.
As far as I know, he is paying local electric utility company instead
of using his putative invention.
So we are not objecting it based only on the fact that it is against
well established laws of nature.


> 2) Torbay hasn't included the cost of the materials when making the energy balance. This requirement, however, is superfluous. Never in any of the thermodynamic or any other scientific analyses of systems is the energy spent to make the machines taken into account. Thus, this objection to Torbay's invention should also be discounted.
>

[SB]
You may be right here. To be honest, after I wrote this several
members of ASALUP pointed this out. We are evaluating this claim with
an electric engineer, so in a couple of days we well back it up or
take it down (with an apologize if it turns to be wrong). But a bad
debunking will not make his claim true.


> I would encourage you very much to visit the inventor and personally try to verify as to whether his motor is indeed self-sustaining. This will not take much effort. The only thing you need to do is to observe the rotor turning for, say, an hour without anybody touching it and without any energy being spent from the outside.
>

[SB]
I tried to contact him, I leave a message in his answering machine but
didn't replied. I did ID myself as an ASALUP member, so this could
discourage him to call back.


> I would appreciate it very much if you could help me get in touch with Mr. Torbay and let him know that I would also like to independently verify his claims either by visiting him or by him sending his motor to me. My address is:
>

I will call him again with your offer. We have a member in the same
city and I am only 40 miles away from him, so I could arrange a demo,
but it is up to him to accept a visit.


> I look forward to hearing from you and hope that Mr. Torbay's device will get a fair assessment based on the principles of science and not based on emotions or other considerations.
>

[SB]
I fully agree with you. But to test a device based on science, we need
cooperation from the one makes the claim.
In ASALUP we are working in another article that will be published
shortly. Please stay tunned you will get more information.

Best regards,
SB.

This week we will have a copy of the patent. In Argentina the patent office is very old fashionated, you have to go there to request a patent, pay a fee and the wait 15 days, that is way we will have it this week. The patent will be published in our website (after scanning).

Offline hartiberlin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7975
    • free energy research OverUnity.com
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2006, 12:42:46 AM »
@sbassi,
Thanks for the infos.

The magnets probably get cold,
when the motor is running, so it
is just violating the second law, which
is by the way no law at all, cause it
only was defined by experience, but there are
many experiments, which violate the "second law"
under certain conditions...

Torbay is not yet using this motor probably himself
as the current prototype is only able to generate at maximum
around 20 to 50 Watts as it looks like from the burning lamp
foto. The upper attached generator is just too small
to generate more power and the motor itsself is also probably
too small to deliver more power... so at this stage it is
common, that the inventor still uses the grid for his own
electricity, if he does not want to mess around with battery
recharging and 12 Volts to 230 Volts inverters all the time ....

But if the basic principle really works, it is easy to upscale into the
MegaWatts range too.

Have you seen the videos yet ?

Can you ask please somebody in your forum who has stored the old
AVI videos to upload them over here or put them up via
rapidshare.de or something simular ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2006, 12:42:46 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Jdo300

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 682
    • The Magnetic 90 degree rule Theory
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #116 on: March 27, 2006, 02:07:31 AM »
Ahhh this is exciting! I've been looking all over the place for his patent but this explains why I haven't been able to find it on the web. I anxiously await to see any videos and info they can dig up. Rather than speculating on its operation, it would be easier to just make a test model and verify it for ourselves. What would be optimal is if we could establish a direct line of communication with him and have him show us how to build one.

@ Stefan:

I'll see what I can do to make a simulation of the motor, but I will really need to know more information about the dimensions of the pieces to get any kind of accurate results.

God Bless,
Jason O

Offline georgemay

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #117 on: March 27, 2006, 02:30:08 AM »
Here is the link to his patent:
http://www.inpi.gov.ar/pdf/p080306.pdf
It is on page 7 and 8

Offline hartiberlin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7975
    • free energy research OverUnity.com
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #118 on: March 27, 2006, 03:03:28 AM »
Okay, I captured the info in this patent file and
have it attached as a screen shot.
Not much more info, but now we know the exact title of the patent
and his address at least.
See attached pic. (You must be logged into the forum)

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #119 on: March 27, 2006, 03:11:03 AM »
sbassi, I beg to respectfully disagree with the points you make:

Quote
From a strict formal point of view, you are right. A fact is a fact,
even if it goes against a law of nature as we know it. But we didn't
argue that Walter's magnetic engine is impossible because of
thermodynamic laws, we said that Walter's magnetic engine does violate
thermodynamic laws, so this should set off some alarms on the mass
media before publish this story.

If Torbay has indeed demonstrated to the media lighting a bulb with no power from without, no alarms connected with any laws of thermodynamics should be set off.

This is the most extraordinary scientific demonstration one can ever dream of which needs no special verification (except for careful inspection, by those with paranoid inclinations, to assure there?s no fraudulent secret external power source attached to the motor).

Quote
I also said that if this were true, he wouldn't be working on his basement, because this is so important that would lead him to the Nobel price.

The fact that he is working in his basement should by no means be held against Тorbay. By no means ... Quite the contrary, this fact should be considered in his favor.

Not to say that demonstrating a self-sustaining device deserves more than a Nobel prize.

Quote
We also believe that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


To place a motor on a table and have it run all by itself without supplying it with energy from the outside is more than an extraordinary evidence. If Torbay can demonstrate this you will have more than you?ve ever asked for.

Quote
His is showing his "miraculous device" in TV before doing it in any respectable scientific journal or scientific society.

I congratulate him for this. This is the right thing to do. If he has the goods and can really demonstrate self-sustaining device he will be out of his mind to go through the judgments of people who have not contributed for science anything remotely close to what he is contributing.

This reminds me of a short story by Karel Chapek about a man who had the ability to fly and who lost this ability after he had to appear before a commission which began giving him advice how to go about his flying.

No, Torbay should not appear before such commissions, learned societies and what not. He should just bring his device to the fore and show it to as many people as possible and should reveal every detail of it so that anybody can make it, despite the desire of some to make it go away by their ?laws of thermodynamics? whose essence they even hardly understand.

Quote
He also claimed that he rejected a $350M offer to sell it, this is
also very suspicious.

Not suspicious at all. On the contrary, selling his invention to a company is exactly what Torbay should not do. Why? Because once it becomes a property of another party, that party is in its full right to lock it in their safes and never allow anybody to use it ever. That is detrimental to the needs of society and obviously Torbay is fully aware of it and should be commended for that.

Quote
As far as I know, he is paying local electric utility company instead of using his putative invention.

It?s a kinda funny proposition to make the shoemaker wear the shoes he himself makes. So, the composer, if we carry your implications further, should only listen to his own music ... or the writer should read only his own books ... Thus, instead of thinking how to perfect his invention, you imply that Torbay should occupy himself first with using his own invention to supply his own needs for electric  power. It somehow appears that your understanding is that discoverers make discoveries to personally benefit from them. I can?t even believe that I am commenting on that.

Quote
So we are not objecting it based only on the fact that it is against
well established laws of nature.

As I explained above, your objections should be discarded.

First, not only that the viability of an experiment such as the direct demonstration of self-sustaining device must not be judged on the basis of the known laws of Nature but it should be just the contrary ? our understanding of the laws of Nature should be modified if a self-sustaining device can be demonstrated.

and

Second, any of the additional objections you pose must go, as I explained.

Quote
Quote
> 2) Torbay hasn't included the cost of the materials when making the energy balance. This requirement, however, is superfluous. Never in any of the thermodynamic or any other scientific analyses of systems is the energy spent to make the machines taken into account. Thus, this objection to Torbay's invention should also be discounted.
>

[SB]
You may be right here. To be honest, after I wrote this several
members of ASALUP pointed this out. We are evaluating this claim with
an electric engineer, so in a couple of days we well back it up or
take it down (with an apologize if it turns to be wrong). But a bad
debunking will not make his claim true.

Your objection that Torbay has not included in the energy balance the energy necessary to spend for making the machine is also obviously incorrect and should be rejected outright.

Bad debunking is bad debunking and has nothing to do with Torbays?s claims. Bad debunking is your problem, Torbay has nothing to do with your problem. Don?t make it appear that somehow Torbay has problems just because you have such.

From the last part of your post I understand that Torbay is trying to avoid contact with you. Honestly, after I saw your approach I don?t blame him. He?d be much better off avoiding such useless contacts that only waste time and would instead carry out direct demonstrations of his self-sustaining device to as larger an audience as possible.

To prove that his device is viable Torbay has to do only one thing ? place the device on a table and show to the World (the media or whatever other avenue he decides) for, say, an hour that the rotor turns without any external supply of energy. Nothing more. Period. End of story. If this happens all this talk of laws of thermodynamics, respectable scientific journals, scientific societies and the like will, at most, sound mildly amusing.

 

OneLink