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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 190146 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #450 on: April 06, 2006, 11:19:09 PM »
tao, movie plays great on my computer. Thanks.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #450 on: April 06, 2006, 11:19:09 PM »

Offline patv

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #451 on: April 07, 2006, 02:07:38 AM »

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #452 on: April 07, 2006, 02:39:33 AM »
well i got bored and tried to draw up how i understand this thing to work from memory. tell me if i have it right.. (this is based on the original motor and notes. no updates have been added and i warn anyone who is not sure of the devices funcions not to look at this in case i am wrong to avoid any confusion. this is mainly for tao, hartiberlin, and omnibus. notice that i did not draw the magnets concave in this drawing is this right? (the cuts of the magnets are the only question i have left for this device)

i am going to take a few days (after your replies) to build my device as i have all the parts i need becides the rotor magnet.

this drawing is based on the well/ramp method of lifting

after i have finished my prototype i will post my findings (more than likely early next week) and if successfull create a comprehensive walk through of everything i did.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #452 on: April 07, 2006, 02:39:33 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #453 on: April 07, 2006, 04:59:43 AM »
Silverdragonrs, looks good so far. You can also try it with

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #454 on: April 07, 2006, 05:03:59 AM »
looks good so far Silverdragonrs, you can also use 2 bar magnets for the rotor, with the same polarisation as the disc magnet, but the raised stator must be then 90 degrees apart. Yes please build a quick prototype and letvus know, many thanks.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #454 on: April 07, 2006, 05:03:59 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #455 on: April 07, 2006, 05:07:16 AM »
@Tao, many thanks for the movie, could not yet look at it, cause I am still only at my PDA right now, but will wa
tch it tommorow on my PC. Many thanks for the great effort.

Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #456 on: April 07, 2006, 08:07:39 AM »
I made it back from a long day...wowsers, this thread has grown! Great work Tao!

Good work silverdragonrs ... has anyone actually started a replication yet? I have finally halved a ring magnet, so first thing in the morning I am getting started...will keep everyone posted, and I dug out my gigital camera.

 Good to see so many new people interested also, it really adds to the push to get this motor replicated.

 Have a great nite...its 1:00am here and I'm pooped (but I couldnt get this thing out of my head all day working)

JayBird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #456 on: April 07, 2006, 08:07:39 AM »
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Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #457 on: April 07, 2006, 08:21:05 AM »
Thought I would post what I am replicating before hitting the hay....

Cisco

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #458 on: April 07, 2006, 12:14:21 PM »

Per attached drawing. N2 is on the way up. N3 is up and on the way down.
As N2 rises, it is helped by N1 and opposed by N3.
As N3 lowers, it is opposed by N2 and then opposed by N4.
Once N2/N3 are past midpoint, they will help each other but N3 is still opposed by N4.
(oops, I think the direction arrow is the wrong way).

This is why I think you may require springs to return the stator in line.

TJ
tjanzer,

   This in response to your reply #459, April 6, bottom of page 46, with your block diagram depicting the vertical movement of adjacent stators. I'm looking for more clarification on what you said near the end in parentheses: "Oops, I think the direction arrow is the wrong way."
My question is, is there a consensus on which way is it supposed to be?
   In your depiction, the movement is assymetric, i.e. the up movement is shown relatively gradual and the down movement is sudden. This would be consistent with Torbay's early wood block prototype, with the wheel underneath the beveled stator magnet holders.
   Whereas in Tao's recent video model with the hump in the rotor, the movement is symetric, i.e. even both up and down. If the hump were to be modified so as to produce an assymetric movement, the stators could only behave oppositely: sudden up, gradual down. This is because the wheels are mounted on top of the stators.
   So we have 3 possible movements here, depending on which design we use (or bellcurve we imagine):
1. Even up & down
2. Gradual up, sudden down
3. Sudden up, gradual down

Does anyone have a considered opinion on which choice may be best?   

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #458 on: April 07, 2006, 12:14:21 PM »
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tjanzer

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #459 on: April 07, 2006, 03:15:50 PM »
Cisco,

The drawing was in reference to Silerdragonrs statement that up and down won't be a problem. What I have attempted to show is a snapshot in time.  If N3 is dropping and N2 is rising, that would mean that the arrow is pointing in the wrong direction. Sorry for the confusion.

As far as your inquiry regarding the bellcurve (great word for this), until a few of us have our replications complete, I wouldn't even want to comment. I think we need to do tests to find out which is best. And thank-you for that question. I will try to design my rotor so that the ramp/bellcurve can be easily replaced or modified for these tests. Instead of making a replica, I am building a motor where most of the parts are adjustable such as, length of stator, heigth of stator,... This way, I will be able to try different diameter rotors and sizes of ramps.

The advantage of this is that the motor will be fully adjustable during the test phase. Also, if my design does not work (it will  :-*), I can easily modify it to someone who has a working model without scrapping the whole thing.

TJ

tjanzer

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #460 on: April 07, 2006, 03:16:55 PM »
Tao,

You are such a tease  ;D

TJ

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #460 on: April 07, 2006, 03:16:55 PM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #461 on: April 07, 2006, 06:16:49 PM »
cisco - this device is multi directional it can go either way/ it just depends on where the rotor poles are facing when the device is started as it is going to move in what ever direction is closest to its target.

as to sudden up gradual down and such i think that the best rpms would be accomplished by sudden up and down though this would cause snags on the bellcurve if the curve is to steep so i think "as sudden as possable with regards to rotation" is the best answer. also i think now that i mentioned that the device is reversable (torbay said it was) that the bellcurve is semetrical as depicted in taos design.

question - we are all designing prototypes that hold down the stator magnets 360 degrees minus the one that is up.... in torbay's design he only used a half circle as a cap. (probably curved on both sides and dipping down in the middle) is it possable that we still have something wrong? or is it just a differece in designs between his wooden (weels to lift stator magnets) and his metal one.

i will begin by replicating his wooden one and i have already begun today. only have one question here. i will be using the following rotor design could you take a look and let me know if you think it will work to begin with as i do not have a disk magnet.

thanks danny

ps would bending a piece of metal (magnetically atracted) across the front of the three magnets help "smooth" out the magnetic field? would it help any?

thanks

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #462 on: April 07, 2006, 06:17:53 PM »
Hi Tao,
now I had finally again access to my PC and have downloaded the animation.
It is really great and I will soon convert them to a smaller size and Codecs,
so many more people can have a look at it.
Maybe you can make another version, where the lid-cap is transparent, so
one could see the inner rotor magnet ? That would be very nice and
this way one would understand the motor much better, if one could also
see the red-blue polarisation of the rotor disc magnet.

Looking forward to this and your new other files.

Many thanks, Stefan.

Offline jaybird

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #463 on: April 07, 2006, 06:25:10 PM »
This is the Torbay model I am replicating. Any discussion is appreciated.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #464 on: April 07, 2006, 07:32:46 PM »
jaybird, as you know, I think it?s a good idea to replicate one of Torbay?s original constructions, so I?m encouraging you greatly. What have you decided these pictures show? Is more than one stator magnet lifted at any moment with this semi-circled rotor? Will you be using three (four) separate rectangular magnets or one magnetized through the diameter annulus (recall, calculations which tao and Stefan made showed that magnetized cylinder or toroid yields the greatest torque)? Tell us more about the lifting mechanism ? will the stator magnets be beveled? Also, is the lifting and descending going to be symmetric ? is the time it takes to lift the magnet going to be equal to the time to lower it?

 

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