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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 185021 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2006, 05:24:14 PM »
How do you mean "an Argentian bigot of Eric Krieg
magnitude"? Please explain.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2006, 05:24:14 PM »

Offline Gwendir

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2006, 06:39:05 PM »
Babelfish did the job ....? :D

Or these type is of the tomato or knows one picks of which they speak
It is a description of pricipio of operation, the concept it is basic, necessary, now the subject is if they really managed it to make work):

IINTENTARE TO EXPLAIN the principle of operation of way to that somebody not very interiorizado in this field IT CAN INCLUDE/UNDERSTAND FACILMENTE.)

First we must remember the reaction that produces between if two faced permanent magnets. Acercandolos are two effects that can be produced:cuando the poles are different are attracted and when the poles are equal are rejected;
It is this I complete effect (the rejection of equal poles) the used one for the operation of the invention. Added to the this cuts in way magnets to turn aside the lines of magnetica force being able with these ultimos to control direction, speed and acceleration.

If we obtained that two magnets are rejected and one remains inmovil whereas the other can desplazarce this I complete always tendera to desplazarce towards the position with smaller by ricochet magnetico influence.
Obtaining that a rejected magnet moves to a later position to which it is, this at a first moment is not rejected and after reaching this position the other magnet is replaced mecanicamente, forcing it to desplazarce to another position in caul another magnet is replaced again again forcing it to continue moving and and repeating the reposicionamiento of magnets a continuous movement is obtained.
It is possible to clarify that so that the reposicionamiento of magnets is not necessary the external application of energia since we used same energia magnetica stored in own magnets

The acceleration,el direction of rotation and the speed are controlled by means of different variants in the angulos and cuts made in magnets, those that allow to turn aside the lines of magnetica force according to agree.


IT FORMS TO DO IT

The invention consists of two types of pieces: main and several secondary ones.

The main pieces are the rotor arm, the elevables arms and the magnets and the secondary pieces are the screws, rulemanes, bases, etc; that they are used for the subjection, disminucionde friction, estetica, etc.


First we are going to establish some variables: the rotor arm (br) has a starting point which we will call Pn, the magnetica force by ricochet generated by the rotor arm sera Z1 call on the other hand in the external ring we will name to each I modulate elevateable like M1, M2, M3, etc and to its respective magneticas forces by ricochet like F1, F2, F3, etc.Es essential to consider that forces Z and F estan directly related to the size of magnets and the composition of such, of which we ended up deducing that Z=F+F+F=3F.


The angulos of cuts (alpha) in magnets of the modulos elevanles podran to be varied according to agrees to control acceleration magnetica friction, and speed. To knowledge that as we increased (alpha) the friction magnetica sera greater, the greater sera initial acceleration and the constant speed sera minor, whereas if alpha diminishes the initial acceleration sera minor and the constant speed increased.

The angulos of cut (beta) and location of these in magnets of the rotor arm permitiran to control direction of rotation.

The variation produced in the angulos of cut in magnets (alpha and beta) allows the deviation of the lines of force so that when increasing the angulos of cut in anyone of these the deviation of the lines of considerably greater sera magnetica force hacercandoce but to the poles whereas when diminishing these angulos the lines of force were turned aside in inverse form


The variable Q represents the opposed forces in which we included friction, friction, gravity, weight, etc.En the starting point (P1) the rotor arm is in rest generating on the other hand Z1 by mecanico system M4 rises reason why its by ricochet magnetica force does not influence the rotor arm; it is possible to clarify that the rest of the Ms estan all losses.
As Z1 is rejected with F1, F2, f3 and also part of F15, f16 we managed to obtain a by ricochet magnetico force that we called X and that sera equal to Z1+F+F+F=X clearing the equation On the other hand we have left X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F Fq=F we concluded in which X>>>F4 (F4 is the F generated by M4) (we clarified that F4<F due to its displacement and which X>>>Q reason why we forced to the rotor arm to desplazarce towards the position 2(P2), by mecanico system low M4 and M5 rises repeating all the previous process,de this way the rotor arm moves (Pn+1) X=6F-F4-Q=4+ infinitely

Observations:
all the external forces of friction, friction, weight and others estan contemplated in Q.Los magnets must be permannetes with high temperature of courie so that the possible overheatings do not degrade their condition of magnet.

On the other hand the continuous circular movement and the rejection of poles favor and allow to maintain their magnetica condition conserving including the original poles.

Explanations: all the F originally calculated in Gaussian, ademas single the Ms and the end of the rotor arm is permanent magnets, the rest must be material not magenticos(aluminio, bronze, magnesium, etc). The F internal must be the sufficiently intense ones like so that great magneticos fields they do not include in the good operation of the invention... "

First of all, a explanation, the "Explanation of the Operation" is not mine but of the inventor (WALTER DARIO TORBAY).

I think that the key (if is certain that it works) consists of this mechanical reposicionamiento, and fit two possibilities here:
1? Is a fraud and they do not explain this point to intention.
2? Is the "key" of the mechanism and its operation is hidden intentionally.

Until I have not received answer to my messages now. Let us hope to see that it happens. The newspapers announced that they already had patented the design, of all certain ways "extra protections" do not come bad.

Nobody I raise serious and documented that validates or contradicts this "official explanation" will be welcome.
?

The question of many is simply: Of where extractions energia? Then energia is not created nor destroys. Of ningun site, I am creating it. Ah, good.

I have another very simple source of energia perpetual. To see if you see the fault him:

A tunnel with a plate in the ceiling and the ground between which a constant electrico field is created. A loaded sphere that as soon as you leave it in the ground of the tunnel sticks a jump until a the ceiling. Then it extractions of the tunnel dragging it by the ceiling and already outside the tunnel any mecanico device falls to the ground moving to generate energia. Once in the ground you drag it within the tunnel again, then it sticks a boat until the ceiling and you repeat the cycle.

(Calculin)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 09:20:23 PM by hartiberlin »

Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2006, 07:37:36 PM »
Hey Guys,

The best way to figure this motor out would be to get into direct contact with the inventor. Now, it seems that some of these news releases are quite recent (http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/ for instance which was last modified on the 19th of March). Maybe we can contact the editor who wrote the article for updated contact information for the inventor.

As for the translations, I can speak some spanish (took it in High school) and will be able to translate the passages if no one else can, but like everyone else here, I'm busy trying to keep up in school at the moment and can't spare the extra time just yet.

God Bless,
Jason O

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2006, 07:37:36 PM »
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Offline Jdo300

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2006, 10:36:32 PM »
In an attempt to find the inventor's patent, I went to Argentina's patent website and searched for his patent number: http://200.80.204.181/logon.asp. But a different patent comes up for the numbers I put in. Maybe I am looking in the wrong database, could someone double check this for me?

God Bless,
Jason O

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2006, 02:10:47 PM »
I?m trying to reach Torbay in Argentina but to no avail. Called the consul of Argentina in New York who promised to find out the contact info for Torbay ? haven?t received anything from the consul yet. The consul didn?t seem to have heard about this story. An Argentinean embassy in Europe was also contacted and they didn?t seem to know anything about this as well. Tried to call Torbay on his cell phone 54-9-223-15-5051-220 but with no success. I also wrote an e-mail to the director of the Argentinean newspaper Diario de Cuyo which has a story about Torbay?s motor in its issue of 8 March, 2006. No reply from them yet. Will keep on trying.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2006, 02:10:47 PM »
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Offline jbh

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2006, 10:31:04 AM »
For the records I am Biochemist and I also speek spanish, but I will not even try to translate something about this "machine". I does not worth the effort. I am convinced this is about a cheat, fraud or hoax. Anyone who knows a little about physics/thermodynamics know that energy/mass does not come out of nothing: it just can be converted. This is just another classic perpetual-movement-machine fraud. At first I thought it was some kind of system who could "get" energy from the magnetic force from the earth, in which case the "source" of energy could be explained, and the inventor gets the Nobel prize, but this is not the case. I Think the guy is just trying to get some stupid to fall in the trap and give away some money. I would not bother to call the guy or follow this case.

Offline _GonZo_

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2006, 01:04:15 PM »
I am Spanish, and I can translate it.
I am going to check right now his web page.
As well if there is some more info to be traslated then someone can post a full list of links to be checked I will make a resume of them.

Hope that my English is good enough

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2006, 01:04:15 PM »
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Offline _GonZo_

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2006, 01:58:37 PM »
In his web page there is not much information apart that the motor can runs at different speeds and it can be reversible with a complex mechanic system.

All the news in his news pages are from newspapers none of them are from any technical publication or University wich makes me think that of a scam.

I think that you want to know what says in the picture attached.

From left to the right more less...

Base = Base  ;D
Brazo elevable = Arm that is able to move upwards
Tapa = Cover
Sist. de descenso controlado = controled downwards system
Sist. de elevacion por ruedas = Wheels lifting system
Brazo rotor = Rotor arm
Eje brazo rotor = rotor arm axis
Rulemanes = Ball bearings
Rampa elevadora del br. elev. = Lifting ramp of the arm that is able to move upwards
Iman brazo rotor = Rotor arm magnet
Iman brazo elevable = Magnet of the arm that is able to move upwards


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2006, 02:15:25 PM »
Quote
All the news in his news pages are from newspapers none of them are from any technical publication or University wich makes me think that of a scam.

_GonZo_, the beauty of this kind of experiment is that it doesn?t need to have anything to do with a University. Put is on a table, let it run by itself and that?s enough for anyone, not just the experts, to conclude it?s viable. The problem is whether it does that. I can?t fathom that anyone would write about it, even a newspaper (in fact so many of them), if it hasn?t been shown to work as claimed.

How can one get in touch with the author and actually see the device?

Also, please translate the following:

?Primero vamos a establecer algunas variables : el brazo rotor (br) tiene una posicion inicial que llamaremos Pn, la fuerza magnetica de rechazo generada por el brazo rotor sera llamada Z1 por otro lado en el anillo externo nombraremos a cada modulo elevable como M1,M2,M3,etc y a su respectivas fuerzas magneticas de rechazo como F1,F2,F3,etc.Es imprescindible tener en cuenta que las fuerzas Z y F estan directamente relacionadas con el tama?o de los imanes y con la composicion de los mismos, de lo que terminamos deduciendo que Z=F+F+F=3F.

Los angulos de cortes (alfa) en los imanes de los modulos elevanles podran ser variados seg?n convenga para controlar aceleracion friccion magnetica,y velocidad. A saber que a medida que aumentamos (alfa) la friccion magnetica sera mayor, la aceleracion inicial sera mayor y la velocidad constante sera menor ,mientras que si alfa disminuye la aceleracion inicial sera menor y la velocidad constante aumentara.

Los angulos de corte (beta) y ubicacion de estos en los imanes del brazo rotor permitiran controlar sentido de giro.

La variacion producida en los angulos de corte en los imanes (alfa y beta ) permiten la desviacion de las lineas de fuerza de manera que al aumentar el angulos de corte en cualquiera de estos la desviacion de las lineas de fuerza magnetica sera considerablemente mayor hacercandoce mas a los polos mientras que al disminuir estos angulos las lineas de fuerza se desviaran en forma inversa

La variable Q representa las fuerzas opuestas en las que incluimos friccion,rozamiento,gravedad,peso,etc.En la posicion inicial (P1) el brazo rotor se encuentra en reposo generando Z1 por otro lado por sistema mecanico M4 se eleva por lo que su fuerza de rechazo magnetica no influye sobre el brazo rotor ; cabe aclarar que el resto de las M estan todas bajas .
Como Z1 se rechaza con F1,F2,F3 y tambien parte de F15,F16 logramos obtener una fuerza de rechazo magnetico que llamamos X y que sera igual a Z1+F+F+F=X despejando la ecuacion nos queda X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F Por otro lado Fq=F concluimos en que X>>>F4 (F4 es la F generada por M4) (aclaramos que F4<F debido a su desplazamiento y que X>>>Q por lo que obligamos al brazo rotor a desplazarce hacia la posicion 2(P2), por sistema mecanico M4 baja y se eleva M5 repitiendo todo el proceso anterior ,de esta manera el brazo rotor se desplaza infinitamente (Pn+1) X=6F-F4-Q=4+?

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2006, 02:15:25 PM »
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Offline _GonZo_

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2006, 03:46:39 PM »
Hi Omnibus, you are right to make any experiment you do not have to be in a university or even in any other technical group, but after it is published in NewspaperS as it has been dont you think that some technical groups will not be interested in the device?

This is the translation of that text wich is the biggest explanation about how it works by the inventor:

First we are going to establish some variables: the rotor arm (br) has a starting point which we will call Pn, the magnetic force by ricochet generated by the rotor arm will be call Z1 call on the other side in the external ring we will name to each elevateable modulus like M1, M2, M3, etc. and to its respective magneticas forces by ricochet like F1, F2, F3, etc. It is? essential to consider that forces Z and F are directly related to the size of magnets and the composition of such, of which we ended up deducing that Z=F+F+F=3F.

The cuts angle (alpha) in magnets of the lifting magnest can be varied in order to control acceleration, magnetic friction, and speed. To knowledge that as we increased (alpha) the magnetic friction will be greater, the greater initial acceleration will be higher and the constant speed will be lowerand otherwise.

The cut angle (beta) and location of these in magnets of the rotor arm will allow us to control direction of rotation.

The variation produced in the cut angle in magnets (alpha and beta) allows the deviation of the lines of force so that when increasing the cut angles in anyone of these the deviation of the lines will be considerably greater so the magnetic force when diminishing these angles the lines of force were turned aside in inverse form

The variable Q represents the opposed forces in which we included friction, friction, gravity, weight, etc. En the starting point (P1) the rotor arm is in rest generating Z1, in the other side by mecanic system M4 is rised so its ricochet magnetic force does not influence the rotor arm; let me clarify that the rest of the Ms are all down.

As Z1 is rejected with F1, F2, f3 and also part of F15, F16 we managed to obtain a by ricochet magnetic force that we will call X and that will be equal to Z1+F+F+F=X clearing the equation X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F.
On other side Fq=F we can concluse that X>>>F4 (F4 is generated by M4) let me clarify that F4<F due its desplacementt and that X>>>Q so we are forcing to the rotor arm to move to position 2(P2), mecanically M4 goes down and M5 elevates repeating all process, this way the rotor arm moves infinitely? (Pn+1) X=6F-F4-Q=4+?

 

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2006, 06:09:25 PM »
Thanks a lot for the translation, _GonZo_. This is what I understood so far:


Denote by Pn the starting point of the arm br and by Z1 the magnetic force which the rotor arm generates by repulsion.

In the external ring (the stator), the magnets that can be raised are denoted by M1, M2, M3, etc. with their respective repulsive magnetic forces F1, F2, F3, etc.

It is essential to consider that forces Z and F are directly related to the size of magnets and their composition. Thus we end up deducing that Z = F + F +  F = 3F.

The magnets that are lifted (the stator magnets) are cut at an angle alpha which can be varied in order to control acceleration, magnetic friction, and speed. The experiment shows that when increasing alpha the magnetic friction becomes greater, the greater initial acceleration and the lower the constant speed and vice versa.

On the other hand, the angle beta at which the rotor magnets are cut and the location of this cut allows to control direction of rotation.

Varying alpha and beta angles allows for the deviation of the lines of force. Thus, when increasing these angles the deviation of said lines is considerably greater which leads to the increase of the magnetic force. Conversely, when decreasing these angles the lines of force are turned aside.

Denote by Q the forces opposing the motion of the rotor. These opposing forces are friction, rozamiento (?), gravity, weight, etc.

At the starting point P1 the rotor arm is at rest generating force Z1. On the side of the rotor magnet M4 is raised by a mechanical system so that its repulsive magnetic force does not influence the rotor arm; the rest of the magnets Ms are all down.

As Z1 is opposed by F1, F2, F3 as well as by part of F15, F16 a net repulsive magnetic force X is generated equal to Z1 + F + F + F = X which when Z1 is replaced leads to X = F + F + F + F + F + F = 6F.

In conclusion, we observe that X >>> F4 (F4 is generated by M4; note also that F4 < F due to its displacement) and also that X >>> Q thus the rotor arm is forced to move to position P2 where M4 goes down mechanically while now M5 goes up thus repeating the whole process and allowing in this way the rotor arm to move infinitely due to the always present net force X = 6F ? F4 ? Q > 4.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2006, 06:09:25 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2006, 07:01:30 PM »
If you have a look at this picture to the above explanation,
the rotor is turning CLOCKWISE in this picture below here.
Now the question is:
When does M4 go up again to the rest of the stator magnets being in a row? ?

If the left front of the rotor is still at M5 position or if the right side of the rotor
has completely passed M4 already ?

So how many stator magnets are down altogether in each position ? Only one or 3 alltogether ?
(M4, M5 and M6 alltogether or just one of them ?)

(http://overunity.com/torbay/transgenerador.jpg)

Is the force calculation then correct as is stated above ??
« Last Edit: March 24, 2006, 07:28:16 PM by hartiberlin »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2006, 07:19:38 PM »
The picture, as I understand it, seems to show the rotor being against M1, M2 and M3. They push on the rotor and cause it to move to the left were magnet M4 should be. Magnet M4 is raised, however, and doesn?t oppose the motion. Just when the rotor gets snugly against the M4 position, magnet M4 is dropped but magnet M5 is raised and so on.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2006, 07:26:17 PM »
Something like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey ...

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2006, 07:31:28 PM »
Okay, so only one magnet is down at a time,
so when M5 is going down M4 will be pulled up again ?
But then M4 has to be pulled up against a big counter force as the
rotor is still full frontal against M4 !Is this right ?
This will need a pretty big force to pull M4 again up !

Is the calculation still right then ?

 

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