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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 190138 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #390 on: April 05, 2006, 03:40:23 AM »
Omnibus, I have not yet tried Emachineshop yet. Do they have their own CAD program or do they just accept DXF files ? I am currently not at home at my PC , just only at my PDA, where I can not try it....

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #390 on: April 05, 2006, 03:40:23 AM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #391 on: April 05, 2006, 03:48:25 AM »
Yes, they have their own CAD which also calculates the price and you can order it from there. It allows you to chose the method, material and so on. I don't know yet what the extension of the files is. You can download it from their site and give it a try. I'm curious what your impressions will be. In general it seems like a great idea.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #392 on: April 05, 2006, 03:51:07 AM »
Emachineshop seems to have their own CAD software. Is it 3D or only 2D.
Maybe we can all download their free software and use this to design a Torbay replication and post the Emachineshop files over here and everybody can access them and make them better step by step ?

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #392 on: April 05, 2006, 03:51:07 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #393 on: April 05, 2006, 03:55:33 AM »
Yes. Exactly. This would be a great solution. Especially if those more familiar with it can help in drawing the more complex details. As far as 3D, you draw it in 2D but then it has 3D rendering to see how the detail looks like. I thought it was just for illustration.

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #394 on: April 05, 2006, 04:49:14 AM »
i am finally able to get back on the site :) thought i might have been banned for being to stupid or something :)

anywho i usually go with my gut on this kind of thing and i must admit that emachineshop does not sound the way to go.... 95% of the people will not be able to afford it (myself included) i agree with releasing a detailed 3d model of the device including all the peices I am good with bryce and have several other programs worth using but i am afraid i do not know enough about the device to attempt anything. I do have an extensive work shop on my property and I may be able to help with the production end assuming the material is easy enough to manage just one person. the magnets may or may not be possable in my shop i have never attempted to cut/carve a magnet before so i do not know (probably not)

given that the rotor and rotor cap are made of a low temp metal I should be able to create them the elevating arms and the bases in my shop. I must forwarn that It would take me a few months to create all the molds and perfect the techniques involved but in the end after they are made then turning out ten or fifteen of each part should only take a matter of days.

my only price would be the materials be sent to me and I need one peice of equipment that i do not have anymore... a computerised laithe <sp? ...... in addition I do have cad and could use it to directly create parts over the laithe.....

(this is a last desperate option) I am no professional just lucky enough to have the means to do this. (my shop really isn't build for this kind of detail but could pull it off with a lot of effort)

on to more realistic subjects..... how much are we talking about on emachineshop to do this entire project? $100 a peice and there are how many peices involved?........ I thaught that Talbots site said it only cost $150 U.S. to build the thing.... or did I misunderstand?

on a redneck slap it together note..... how important are the details on this thing... i understand that there are many fine details in a device like this... so a guy like me with absolutely no money probable couldn't just grab a file and start carving bevels in magnets and weld a few peices of metal together or create molds and such... this is more than likely going to be a project for computer aided machining.... right?.....

anyways I am just trying to figure out how the little guy is going to get his hand on/make one of these devices once you all finish the design.

(thinking out loud)
danny

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #394 on: April 05, 2006, 04:49:14 AM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #395 on: April 05, 2006, 05:31:58 AM »
what programs are you all using for simulations (FEMME???) and how hard are they to learn/use if your were a beginner? I would love to test some of my ideas and what not....

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #396 on: April 05, 2006, 06:55:47 AM »
ok I am almost up to date on this device but one question......

the rotor is held in an upright position by two bearings acording to the pictures.....

the elevating arms w/magnets are pushed up by either a rotor arm w/weels, or some sort of bevel setup. either way once it's up it's up.

the rotor cap pushes the elevating arm back down after the rotor magnets reach there destination and the rotor w/arm moves on to the next elevating arm.

Q #1 ) with all that magnetic force holding that elevating arm up there right now....... what is keeping the rotor from pulling up and out of the bearings? what is stopping it from flying off? :)   

Q #2 ) had anyone looked into the generator that he used with his device? I would love to get/build one that could create that kind of power... self propelled motor or not! I think that this generator is just as important as the device. the over all torque on this thing can't be all that high... right? .... i mean are we talking stop it from turning with your hand or pliers..... or are we talking heavy duty torque?.... and if it's not heavy duty torque then where do you get a generator to produce this kind of energy without requiring alot of torque to power it?

has anyone had a successfull 100% simulation yet?

danny


 

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #396 on: April 05, 2006, 06:55:47 AM »
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Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #397 on: April 05, 2006, 08:50:09 AM »
ok i finally read and understand the entire thread (i think) and am ready to start building my prototype...... one problem.... can anyone list some scources where i can get magnets from i have no money but plenty of harddrives and speakers.

I have only six two inch long rectanglular perm magnets (not sure of quality) and four more that are half an inch shorter than that..... can i cut them all into one inch (somehow)..... will that still work for stator magnets?

also i am not sure as to the layout of the rotor magnets (three pointing up left then right or all three side by side pointing in one direction? the patent shows them all pointing in one direction mostly...... or are we going to try the disk magnet first?)

I do not have a teslemeter or even know what it is... along with half the tools you are all using.... so i need somebody to tell me where to find sutable magnets.

MOST IMPORTANT - i know that all the magnets are going to need cuts and bevels and such.... what i have not been able to gather from the thread is where what angle/shape and demensions.......

I think you have all done a great job analyzing this device based on nothing but a few articles and blurry pictures and i know it will work. I want to thank you all for your effort and dedication to this project....... ( I know i am enjoying it) I have learned so much in the last few days it isn't funny!

just a heads up - my first prototype will be disk magnet rotor with lifting arm w/ weels for lifting elevating arms. trial and error is the only way we will be able to work out the remaining details i think.

one last question before i hit the sack for the night - does anyone have any spare magnets they would be willing to part with and mail to me?....  ;D  J/K

seriously though omnibus, tao, everyone, ..... do you think that for a prototype that aluminum will be a good material to use for everything other than the magnets of course. aluminum melts easy and i don't like the idea of making it out of wood....

problem - the pins that alow the elevating arms to elevate..... wouldn't they where out really really really fast? were talkin alot of up and down.... there has to be a better way..... (for future models)

danny

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #398 on: April 05, 2006, 09:20:53 AM »
agreed on all points. and understood. my thought was that at some point a bearing of some sort should be emplemented in the design. on the site and in the papers they talk about it lasting 5000 years because that is the life of the magnet they used. however the pins would give out in only a few years max (assuming that the device opperates at a medium to moderate rate of speed)

also the question of how many magnets was asked at some point. I think that the number of magnets you use depends greately on the size and quality of the magnets you are going to implement. exp. the magnets that I will be using do not have a super strong feild and if i only use 8 magnets then the fields would not interact/overlap causing the rotor magnet to get stuck between magnets up or down. if i can not find better magnets i will have to "close the field" so to say by using more magnets.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #398 on: April 05, 2006, 09:20:53 AM »
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Offline maxwellsdemon

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #399 on: April 05, 2006, 11:23:53 AM »
You're not forgetting the repulsion force resisting the lifted magnet as it is being pushed back down between two magnets of like polarity, are you?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #400 on: April 05, 2006, 03:02:01 PM »
Thanks a lot, tao. I wonder if I understand it correctly? The net force would exist if the calculated lines of force of the rotor magnets do not appear symmetrical and will be in the direction of narrowing the distance between these lines. If that?s the case, obviously magnetmotor11.ans (whereby the circle of stator magnets is closed) won?t provide a net force ? picture seems symmetric. Not so in magnetmotor12.ans (with a gap in the stator) ? the lines, although frugal in my picture, are clearly non-symmetric and appear to get closer towards the gap.

Could you please make a graph of the same disposition of the three rotor magnets but with flat surfaces (flat surfaces of the stator magnets too)? Thanks.

The rest of the pictures don?t seem to show anything as unusual as magnetmotor12.ans  as far as I can see.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #400 on: April 05, 2006, 03:02:01 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #401 on: April 05, 2006, 03:16:24 PM »
tao, forgot to mention this -- I fully agree with what you said about eMachieShop. Initially I thought it was expensive but maybe you're right, this might be the most convenient way for a project like this. Indeed, eMachineShop is one of a kind.

Offline Duranza

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #402 on: April 05, 2006, 03:30:41 PM »
If you guys gimme autocad drawings i can make an acrylic prototype. I work in a machine shop making acrylic manifolds. The  maximum size has to be 6x10 inches. Try to keep dimensions in inches. Also if you keep the drawings separated like broken down in to pieces the better. I can make them in my lunch break if they are short programs.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #403 on: April 06, 2006, 02:33:46 AM »
Here are my new FEMM files as an attachment.
Now as the server again has a new bandwidth for the new
day and I moved away the huge videofiles from hotlinking and
draining my bandwidth, now I can also download the other files.
Many thanks for the Bryce file, will download them now.

Who has already played with Lua scripting and can do an
simulation animation with the right magnet sequence ?

It seems a circular magnet with normal South-North magnetisation
through its diameter really has the most useful torque.
I will post at the weekend the screen shots of these FEMM files,
I still have to compress them some more, have to download a good picture
editing program to this new PC I am using right now.

Offline silverdragonrs

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #404 on: April 06, 2006, 02:44:19 AM »
just an idea but why dont we design molds to be made by emachineshop instead of actual peices.... this way we can reproduce the parts as needed and save some money since most of the parts on this device repeat themselves.

also the more i look at this device (peice by peice) the more detail i see being needed... and the less likely i see myself "rednecking" a prototype. I will continue to try but will be glad to assist in a group effort as well.

I am not sure how I can help so just let me know.

I have over two hundred old hard drives that are only 170- 500 MB so useless. I am taking them apart right now if anybody wants some of the parts (disks, motor, magnets, case) just email me and I'd be glad to share.

I am trying to find a magnet that is "polorised through its center" as mentioned before because i think this could work as well in the rotor. does anyone know of a disk magnet that meets the criteria? exp. speaker magnet?

and has anyone figured out if we can leave the magnets uncut? if we can't then does anyone know what cuts to make for this device? I don't quite understand how this part works.

danny

 

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