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Author Topic: Magnet motor in Argentina  (Read 184871 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2006, 08:06:48 AM »
Here is another bigger and better picture of the inventor with his first device:


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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2006, 08:06:48 AM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2006, 08:07:23 AM »
Here is another bigger and better picture of the inventor with his first device:


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2006, 08:29:34 AM »
It probably works like
"a cat chasing its tail"
The rotor magnet always seeks the stator
magnet that is retracted and if it reaches it,
it already retracts the next stator magnet.

The question is, if the force is enough to pull
the last stator magnet also down again and keep
the rotor moving on and still have more force to
pull down all magnets which where lifted...?

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2006, 08:29:34 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2006, 08:49:42 AM »
If that?s the case it would resemble Paul Sprain?s motor but is more cleverly done ? the mechanical withdrawal of the magnets (to suddenly suspend the magnetic field at the sticky spot) for which no external energy is spent corresponds to the application of counter-field through external spending of energy in Sprain?s motor. Snyder?s motor doesn?t seem to have any of these additional facilities for overcoming the sticky spot and therefore is more attractive. Same applies probably to Mike Brady?s PERENDEV motor, although we?ve not seen much of it. Of course, Torbay?s so far is the closest of what we?ve seen (although we?ve not actually seen much, just pictures and newspapers clippings) to a commercial application of a real self-sustaining motor, if we don?t count PERENDEV.

Does anyone know when Torbay will be in New York City? I?d definitely go and see the demonstration (luckily, I don?t live far from NYU). I?d like to invite him for a demo at my institute as well. Also, Stefan, do you intend to go to Mike Brady?s presentation in Munich in May? I may consider attending it so we can meet there as well.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2006, 09:05:54 AM »
If Mike Brady?s presentation in Munich will ever take place I would go there too.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2006, 09:05:54 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2006, 09:08:46 AM »
What makes you think it won't take place?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2006, 03:11:30 PM »
Honestly, I doubt not so much the Brady demonstration but that the New York University (NYU) will host a seminar on Torbay's motor. If anyone can tell me what department at NYU is going to be the host I can check that right away.

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2006, 03:11:30 PM »
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Offline ewitte

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2006, 04:47:07 PM »
Is the email correct?  I'll get my wife to help me find the video.

Eric

Offline ewitte

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2006, 04:52:48 PM »
If there were not so many words I'd work on cleaning up the translation.  I don't have the time to do that much.  Basically if you go in and correct all of the spelling mistakes (missing accents) the translator will work a lot better.  Unfortunately most people leave off accents when typing on the internet  >:(

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2006, 04:52:48 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2006, 05:28:24 PM »
Maybe someone who speaks fluently spanish please can translate
exactly these sentences, cause they describe in detail the involved
forces and the functioning of the motor:
From:
http://www.hispaseti.org/foroWanaH/viewtopic.php?t=3314&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


"The main pieces are the rotor arm, the elevables arms and the magnets and the secondary pieces are the screws, rulemanes, bases, etc; that they are used for the subjection, disminucionde friction, estetica, etc.

First we are going to establish some variables: the rotor arm (br) has a starting point which we will call Pn, the magnetica force by ricochet generated by the rotor arm sera Z1 call on the other hand in the external ring we will name to each I modulate elevateable like M1, M2, M3, etc and to its respective magneticas forces by ricochet like F1, F2, F3, etc.Es essential to consider that forces Z and F estan directly related to the size of magnets and the composition of such, of which we ended up deducing that Z=F+F+F=3F.

The angulos of cuts (alpha) in magnets of the modulos elevanles podran to be varied according to agrees to control acceleration magnetica friction, and speed. To knowledge that as we increased (alpha) the friction magnetica sera greater, the greater sera initial acceleration and the constant speed sera minor, whereas if alpha diminishes the initial acceleration sera minor and the constant speed increased.

The angulos of cut (beta) and location of these in magnets of the rotor arm permitiran to control direction of rotation.

The variation produced in the angulos of cut in magnets (alpha and beta) allows the deviation of the lines of force so that when increasing the angulos of cut in anyone of these the deviation of the lines of considerably greater sera magnetica force hacercandoce but to the poles whereas when diminishing these angulos the lines of force were turned aside in inverse form

The variable Q represents the opposed forces in which we included friction, friction, gravity, weight, etc.En the starting point (P1) the rotor arm is in rest generating on the other hand Z1 by mecanico system M4 rises reason why its by ricochet magnetica force does not influence the rotor arm; it is possible to clarify that the rest of the Ms estan all losses. As Z1 is rejected with F1, F2, f3 and also part of F15, f16 we managed to obtain a by ricochet magnetico force that we called X and that sera equal to Z1+F+F+F=X clearing the equation On the other hand we have left X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F Fq=F we concluded in which X>>>F4 (F4 is the F generated by M4) (we clarified that F4<F due to its displacement and which X>>>Q reason why we forced to the rotor arm to desplazarce towards the position 2(P2), by mecanico system low M4 and M5 rises repeating all the previous process,de this way the rotor arm moves (Pn+1) X=6F-F4-Q=4+ infinitely

Observations: all the external forces of friction, friction, weight and others estan contemplated in Q.Los magnets must be permanetes with high temperature of courie so that the possible overheatings do not degrade their condition of magnet."

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2006, 06:32:13 PM »
@ewitte, please can you translate this exactly ?
Many thanks:


O estos tipo est?n del tomate o saben una pizca de lo que hablan
Es una descripci?n del pricipio de funcionamiento, el concepto es b?sico, necesario, ahora el asunto es si realmente lo lograron hacer funcionar):

IINTENTARE EXPLICAR el principio de funcionamiento de modo a que alguien no muy interiorizado en dicho campo LO PUEDA COMPRENDER FACILMENTE.)

Primero debemos recordar la reaccion que producen entre si dos imanes permanentes enfrentados. Acercandolos hay dos efectos que se pueden producir :cuando los polos son distintos se atraen y cuando los polos son iguales se rechazan ;
Es este ultimo efecto ( el rechazo de polos iguales) el utilizado para el funcionamiento de la invencion. Sumado a este los cortes en los imanes de manera de desviar las lineas de fuerza magnetica pudiendo con estos ultimos controlar direccion,velocidad y aceleracion.

Si logramos que dos imanes se rechacen y uno permanezca inmovil mientras que el otro puede desplazarce este ultimo siempre tendera a desplazarce hacia la posicion con menor influencia de rechazo magnetico.
Logrando que un iman rechazado se desplace a una posicion posterior a la que se encuentra , este en un primer instante no es rechazado y luego de alcanzar dicha posicion el otro iman se reposiciona mecanicamente, obligandolo a desplazarce nuevamente a otra posicion en la caul nuevamente se reposiciona otro iman obligandolo a seguir desplazandose y y repitiendo el reposicionamiento de los imanes se logra un movimiento continuo.
Cabe aclarar que para que el reposicionamiento de los imanes no es necesaria la aplicaci?n de energia externa ya que utilizamos la misma energia magnetica almacenada en los propios imanes

La aceleracion ,el sentido de giro y la velocidad se controlan mediante distintas variantes en los angulos y cortes realizados en los imanes ,los que permiten desviar las lineas de fuerza magnetica seg?n convenga.


FORMA DE HACERLA

La invencion consta de dos tipos de piezas : unas principales y varias secundarias.

Las piezas principales son el brazo rotor ,los brazos elevables y los imanes y las piezas secundarias son los tornillos ,rulemanes , base , etc ; que son utilizados para la sujecion,disminucionde friccion , estetica ,etc .


Primero vamos a establecer algunas variables : el brazo rotor (br) tiene una posicion inicial que llamaremos Pn, la fuerza magnetica de rechazo generada por el brazo rotor sera llamada Z1 por otro lado en el anillo externo nombraremos a cada modulo elevable como M1,M2,M3,etc y a su respectivas fuerzas magneticas de rechazo como F1,F2,F3,etc.Es imprescindible tener en cuenta que las fuerzas Z y F estan directamente relacionadas con el tama?o de los imanes y con la composicion de los mismos, de lo que terminamos deduciendo que Z=F+F+F=3F.


Los angulos de cortes (alfa) en los imanes de los modulos elevanles podran ser variados seg?n convenga para controlar aceleracion friccion magnetica,y velocidad. A saber que a medida que aumentamos (alfa) la friccion magnetica sera mayor, la aceleracion inicial sera mayor y la velocidad constante sera menor ,mientras que si alfa disminuye la aceleracion inicial sera menor y la velocidad constante aumentara.

Los angulos de corte (beta) y ubicacion de estos en los imanes del brazo rotor permitiran controlar sentido de giro.

La variacion producida en los angulos de corte en los imanes (alfa y beta ) permiten la desviacion de las lineas de fuerza de manera que al aumentar el angulos de corte en cualquiera de estos la desviacion de las lineas de fuerza magnetica sera considerablemente mayor hacercandoce mas a los polos mientras que al disminuir estos angulos las lineas de fuerza se desviaran en forma inversa


La variable Q representa las fuerzas opuestas en las que incluimos friccion,rozamiento,gravedad,peso,etc.En la posicion inicial (P1) el brazo rotor se encuentra en reposo generando Z1 por otro lado por sistema mecanico M4 se eleva por lo que su fuerza de rechazo magnetica no influye sobre el brazo rotor ; cabe aclarar que el resto de las M estan todas bajas .
Como Z1 se rechaza con F1,F2,F3 y tambien parte de F15,F16 logramos obtener una fuerza de rechazo magnetico que llamamos X y que sera igual a Z1+F+F+F=X despejando la ecuacion nos queda X=F+F+F+F+F+F=6F Por otro lado Fq=F concluimos en que X>>>F4 (F4 es la F generada por M4) (aclaramos que F4<F debido a su desplazamiento y que X>>>Q por lo que obligamos al brazo rotor a desplazarce hacia la posicion 2(P2), por sistema mecanico M4 baja y se eleva M5 repitiendo todo el proceso anterior ,de esta manera el brazo rotor se desplaza infinitamente (Pn+1) X=6F-F4-Q=4+

Observaciones:
todas las fuerzas externas de rozamiento ,friccion, peso y otras estan contempladas en Q.Los imanes deben ser permannetes con alta temperatura de courie para que posibles recalentamientos no degraden su condicion de iman.

Por otro lado el continuo movimiento circular y el rechazo de polos favorecen y permiten a mantener su condicion magnetica conservando inclusive los polos originales.

Aclaraciones: todas las F se calcularon originalmente en gauss,ademas solo las M y el extremo del brazo rotor son imanes permanentes , el resto deben ser materiales no magenticos(aluminio ,bronce , magnesio, etc). Las F internas deben ser los suficientemente intensas como para que grandes campos magneticos no incluyan en el buen funcionamiento de la invencion..."

Ante todo, una aclaraci?n, la "Explicaci?n del Funcionamiento" no es m?a sino del inventor (WALTER DARIO TORBAY ).

Pienso que la clave (si es cierto que funciona) consiste en este reposicionamiento mec?nico, y caben aqu? dos posibilidades:
1? Es un fraude y no explican este punto a prop?sito.
2? Es la "clave" del mecanismo y su operaci?n es ocultada intencionalmente.

Hasta ahora no he recibido contestaci?n a mis mensajes. Esperemos a ver que pasa. Los peri?dicos anunciaron que ellos ya hab?an patentado el dise?o, de todas maneras ciertas "protecciones" extras no vienen mal.

Cualquier planteo serio y documentado que valide o contradiga esta "explicaci?n oficial" ser? bienvenida.
 

La pregunta de muchos es simplemente: ?De donde sacas la energia? Pues la energia no se crea ni destruye. De ningun sitio, la estoy creando. Ah, bueno.

Yo tengo otra fuente de energia perpetua muy simple. A ver si ustedes le ven la falla:

Un tunel con una placa en el techo y en el suelo entre las que se crea un campo electrico constante. Una esfera cargada que en cuanto la dejas en el suelo del tunel pega un salto hasta al techo. Entonces la sacas del tunel arrastrandola por el techo y ya fuera del tunel se cae al suelo moviendo cualquier dispositivo mecanico para generar energia. Una vez en el suelo la arrastras dentro del tunel otra vez, entonces pega un bote hasta el techo y repites el ciclo.

(Calculin)

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2006, 06:32:13 PM »
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Offline ewitte

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2006, 12:31:36 PM »
I know enough that its possible I can get you a lot better translation but it will take me several hours.  My wife on the other hand knows perfect Spanish but not much English  ;D  Here is what I will do.  I need to have her birth certificate translated into English for Immigration.  The translator charges by word but has a minimum cost of $50.  I'll let her look at this passage up to the difference.

Offline ewitte

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2006, 12:33:18 PM »
I just checked.? Thats not going to get you much.? There are 1100 words there.? Maybe start around "FORMA DE HACERLA" or how to make it and stop where he explains it.? I'll fill in the easy parts.? For instance you don't need this

La pregunta de muchos es simplemente: ?De donde sacas la energia? Pues la energia no se crea ni destruye. De ningun sitio, la estoy creando. Ah, bueno.

The question is simple.? Where does the energy come from?? Energy can not be created nor destroyed.? In no situation are you creating energy.  Oh, yes...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 12:46:47 PM by ewitte »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2006, 01:13:35 PM »
@ewitte
thanks, only the formula are interesting, where it is explained, why there is always a positive
force that drives the rotor ! If you could translate this, this would be very nice of you.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Magnet motor in Argentina
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2006, 04:54:25 PM »

A Google search for the patent number quoted by Stefan a while
ago reveals what looks like an Argentian bigot of Eric Krieg
magnitude!!! This inventor's arrived !!!
http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/

 

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