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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: lasersaber on January 12, 2010, 11:01:01 PM
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As some of you may know I have been experimenting with my earth battery and doing some pretty cool things with it. Here is a video showing my earth battery design: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZNETLcTuMk
I noticed that the longer I ran my north and south wires the greater the milliamps I got. The ground has been too frozen to do any digging lately, so I decided to try some other experiments.
My first experiment was to take two rolls of magnesium ribbon and two rolls of copper wire and place them in a dish of water and see how much power I could get off it. I ended up adding some lemon juice to try to get as much current as possible. I got 1.809V 02.50 milliamps.
Next I took the wires out to my creek and stretched them out under the water. My creek runs east to west. I got 1.682V 31.01 milliamps. This is right in line with what I would have expected to achieve had I laid them in the ground north and south.
I did one last test. I ran each of the two sets of wires side by side in the stream. This cut the wires distance in the stream in half. I got 1.6V 20 milliamps. This drop in milliamps corresponds exactly with my earth battery experiments. This is interesting to me because the surface area in the water stayed the same in all these test. The only major variable was distance.
Obviously at some point this effect most stop. On my earth battery I have much longer wires and I am at 40 milliamps. The rate of increase certainly falls as my wire gets really long but I have not found the point where I stop gaining milliamps yet.
I just thought I would share my findings.
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Wow lasersaber,
These are excellent tests and great results.
It may be that it will NOT run out. Stubblefield had his property wired and ran wires all along. He had sensors that let him (paranoid hermit by then) be able to know when he had visitors.
I am afraid I have been one of his visitors.
I have been remote viewing in time to watch him.
You are probably doing the same! ;)
Thank you so much for your excellent research and for your excellent documentation.
I, and I know others, really appreciate it.
jeanna
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I've been working on my earth battery some more and it is now at 1.7 volts and over 100 milliamps. In the process of experimenting I've made some interesting observations:
1. I did more experiments with running wires and confirmed that there is always a large milliamps gain in correlation to the distance the wires are run. After laying down over a thousand feet of wire, I still do not know when this gain stops. So far, as long as I keep adding to my wires I keep gaining milliamps. Direction in relation to north and south seems to make no difference in this design but more testing must be done to confirm this. When these same wires were wound on spools and immersed a few feet apart in a electrolyte they produce very low milliamps.
2. I did some experiments in which I immersed electrodes in my creek as well as in an insulated bucket containing the same creek water. When in the creek the milliamps were increased by around 50 percent. I did this multiple times and in different configurations with pretty much the same results every time.
3. I made some purely galvanic batteries using copper wire and magnesium ribbon in close proximity to each other. They always seemed to run down in a matter of days or hours if running something like my little motor. It seems that being under load for any prolonged period neutralizes them. I have not noticed this effect on my earth battery yet.
4. As I ran longer wires I started to notice a strange effect. At first it was hardly noticeable but as I ran more wire it became very pronounced. The voltage jumps up and down a small amount in a perfectly consistent and regular manner. You could probably keep time by it.
In conclusion, I think that what I am making is acting more like an antenna than like a galvanic battery.
I'll soon be adding pictures and videos of some of the fun things I'm doing with the extra milliamps. Using a Fuji joule thief, I lit a small fluorescent tube directly off the earth battery!! I have also been able to run multiple small electric motors and light super bright LEDs.
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Laser:
That is great results!! Very interesting testing you are doing. All of what you describe is consistent with Stubblefield's reports on this. Above the ground in an electrolyte is galvanic, and won't last long. Below the ground is something else all together and lasts for a long time.
Do you have a scope? In Electricme's topic of EER data logging, we have seen this pulse you speak of. On my scope shots, I can clearly see that this is pulsed DC at a pretty high freq. This may be why Stubblefield was able to run his transformers before transistors as he was already getting a pulsed signal.
My best for the EER was 460 mA's. BUT, that was only after winding a large Stubblefield coil and, after getting pretty good results (90 mA's) I followed a suggestion of someone on the forum and added vinegar to the soil. It worked really great....for a while...then ...nothing. All shorted!!!
So, I think you are on the right track here. I just wish I didn't live in this small apartment and had more land to experiment with. 1,000 feet you say? This makes me wonder what 5,000 feet would be?
Great job.
Bill
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@lasersaber,
I see you added a lot lot of copper. Is that something you did in the beginning? or did you change your mind about adding a lot of copper?
I am going to try the following plan. What do you think?
I am going to make the wires long as you have described, then at the end only I am going to "nail" it with a carbon rod at the top and a magnesium firestarter at the bottom.
I noticed loooong ago that if I used a copper wire to connect the EER to (3) carbon welding rods, that it was a lot more than copper alone. I used a copper wire to connect the lower ends to a magnesium plug.
So, this idea will change 2 things.
It will keep all the copper on the one side, and it will show IF it is enough to just end with the mg, or if I need the whole lower end to be magnesium ribbon.
I will not be buying the mag ribbon til later so I can compare my tests then.
thank you,
jeanna
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Jeanna,
Running the long Copper wire was something I did recently to get me over 100 milliamps. It was worth it! It is so cool to see a fluorescent light lit on a Fuji JT straight off the earth battery!
It seems very easy to get above 20 miiliamps with shorter wires. Getting above 50 you have to run a lot of wire. Getting above 100 you have to run more wire than you can imagine. :o I still would like to know how long the wire has to be before this gain in milliamps stops. I may have to talk to a farmer with a large freshly plowed field and see if I can do some large scale tests.
Here is another smaller configuration I also did with my earth battery. It may give you a better idea of amount of milliamps that are gained with distance. With this smaller configuration I do not detect very much of the pulse in the current that is so marked when I use the really long wires. I guess I will have to get a scope like Pirate said and see what is really going on.
I would love to hear how your plan works out. The more we can learn about these the better.
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This is really cool.
What happens if you snake the wire back and forth going the length?
Hard to describe.
I am thinking about the farmer.
here is a drawing of wire going East to west
E-----------------------------------------------------w
here is one doing the snake thing I an thinking might work:
E/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/w
You tested the wire in the water coming back and it did not add, but maybe this will and might be easily tested??
jeanna
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I like the snake effect idea. I think I will try that in the creek and see what effect it has. I think it would work better in smooth S curves than in a zigzag.
I have been thinking along similar lines. I had been planning on sharing the following design after I tested it. I might as well share it now and maybe if anybody else is also interested in trying it out, we can share results. The idea would be to find out how close you can run wire next to each other before you lose the milliamps gain effect. In this plan I have all the wires 24' feet apart. I have also been wondering what effect impedance is having on my system. This new design should lower the effects of impedance a lot as well. I will play a little more with my current setup and then try building this new one. I have observed a few things that make me think that thinner wire may work better. I will test this to see if that is the case. I will keep sharing my findings.
On a side note. I noticed that when I tried winding a thousand or so turns of copper wire around my magnesium rod I could easily get around 400 milliamps but this design could not sustain power under load for very long. After a day or so it would be down under 10 milliamps. I decided this had something to do with the copper wire being in close proximity to the magnesium. This test was in pure water. so far my observations have been that if I keep my electrodes far apart in the ground this will not happen. I keep thinking that maybe Stubblefield escaped this problem by drawing the current off of the secondary.
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I bought the zinc plated wire today and I unwound it.
The volts started at 0.5v and gained to .710v as I unwound more.= about 20 feet. I still have plenty to go. And I have not connected it to the mg fire stick either.
I was a bit discouraged and went inside.
Now, I realize that the copper which is there already is plastic covered and not what lasersaber is using. I knew this, just forgot in the cold outside. ;) .
So, if it is sunny tomorrow and I can bear it, I will go out and unroll some copper wire to the carbon rods and see what improvement it gives.
If it is good, I might be encouraged enough to turn the corner and continue.
That's all for now.
jeanna
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Jeanna,
I see that your voltage increased. I have not noticed a voltage increase with distance before. How many milliamps did you gain?
Everybody,
Here are the videos I promised earlier. Enjoy and keep experimenting.
Fluorescent Tube Lit Directly Off Earth Battery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2o2_UhtmGs
Earth Battery Voltage Pulse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZVi9SWhxs
Earth Battery Lights Small Lamps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLHDdSjMmE8
Earth Battery Runs Six Motors Continuously!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cZaGZ4IDY
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Hi lasersaber
Seems you have an ideal place to experiment. Sorry I cannot view youtube at this time to see your videos. Moving water over a conductor will generate electricity. Maybe you can tap this potential by using coaxial cable if you have some to experiment with. Lay the coax cable in the water. The outer layer will shield the inner conductor from shorting out with the water. There should be voltage generated between the inner and outer parts of the coax? Could be static charge buildup over time, watch out!
Maybe static high voltage would be added to your low milliamps for power gain? wouldn't that be something? Usually can find old coax cable at yard sales or recyclers.
Thanks for willingness to experiment and share.
tishatang
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I take it you're using unserved wire ( non insulated )?
It would be interesting to see further results; does it matter how much wire there is, does it only dictate the miliamps it produces?
where could I get this magnesium wire from? ..is it available in normal places ( welding shops maybe )?
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tishatang,
That sounds like an interesting idea. I may have to give it a try some time. I kind of doubt that you could get more power than you would with a simple paddle wheel. So far I have just used the creek for testing. I have been burying more of my wires in the ground and they seem to work just as well or better than in the creek. I have not yet noticed an effect from the water flowing over the wire.
jadaro2600,
Use bare uninsulated wires. Here is where I buy my magnesium ribbon from. I ordered the 11 rolls. But I started my experiments with just one roll. With it I was able to run a small electric motor. Be careful as the ribbon will break if you bend it back and forth.
Magnesium Ribbon 25g - 1 Roll! $6.50
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnesium-Ribbon-25g-1-Roll_W0QQitemZ290366215591QQihZ019QQcategoryZ104233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Magnesium Ribbon 275g - 11 Rolls!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnesium-Ribbon-275g-11-Rolls_W0QQitemZ290366217702QQihZ019QQcategoryZ104233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Jeanna,
I see that your voltage increased. I have not noticed a voltage increase with distance before. How many milliamps did you gain?
Sorry, I must have blown my fuse a while back. There is another one around here somewhere!
I need to get enough volts to be above the silicon minimum, and so I am still trying to improve the volts. I am way behind you on EB results.
.9v and 43mV last summer did not turn on my germanium transistor, and this summer I will remove the base resistor. I had been increasing it, on advice and never tried to reverse. (I know I should always try the opposite, but I forgot that time.)
thank you for your excellent work,
jeanna
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This is really cool.
What happens if you snake the wire back and forth going the length?
Hard to describe.
I am thinking about the farmer.
here is a drawing of wire going East to west
E-----------------------------------------------------w
here is one doing the snake thing I an thinking might work:
E/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/w
You tested the wire in the water coming back and it did not add, but maybe this will and might be easily tested??
jeanna
This zig zag arrangement could be interesting!!! Receiving antenna's are designed much smaller than they used to be a few years back due to new discoveries in design (Fractal's) by the use of angles and precise dimensions. The same 1000 ft of wire arranged in this way could possibly produce the same results but without going the distance, thus making use of a smaller space... who know's worth a try!
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These earth battery experiments are producing excellent results. How about using a standard chart for logging the results e.g. type of materials for +ve / -ve gauge of wire / solid or stranded, distance covered, depth if buried... etc etc. Just a suggestion so results can be compared across the globe. We are in our winter period in the UK but come the spring and lighter evenings I'll have a look myself. Would be interesting to know the frequency of these pulses. Excellent work.
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These earth battery experiments are producing excellent results. How about using a standard chart for logging the results e.g. type of materials for +ve / -ve gauge of wire / solid or stranded, distance covered, depth if buried... etc etc. Just a suggestion so results can be compared across the globe. We are in our winter period in the UK but come the spring and lighter evenings I'll have a look myself. Would be interesting to know the frequency of these pulses. Excellent work.
This is a good idea. This was the intent of the EER data logging topic, to compare same set-ups all over the world. We had only a few folks post scope shots but it was very interesting to see the similarities, and the differences.
I still suspect that we would be able to see anomalies either before, during or just after a major world event like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions or thunder storms, and maybe a solar event or two.
Bill
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These earth battery experiments are producing excellent results. How about using a standard chart for logging the results e.g. type of materials for +ve / -ve gauge of wire / solid or stranded, distance covered, depth if buried... etc etc. Just a suggestion so results can be compared across the globe. We are in our winter period in the UK but come the spring and lighter evenings I'll have a look myself. Would be interesting to know the frequency of these pulses. Excellent work.
I agree with Bill and I would like to add a piece.
Would you be willing to draw up a chart?
Make it one that can be shown on a jpeg with 600px width.
Then we can download the jpeg and using the text from an image program we can add our figures and upload them.
Otherwise I would request an open source spreadsheet, but most folks have a hard time with spreadsheets, so that is my second choice.
>> and please move it to the datalogging thread, because that is where all the previous records would be<<
thank you,
jeanna
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Hi jeanna,
I will give this some thought... may be others can offer ideas as well regarding it's content and format etc. Awaiting responces. kind regards
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Lasersaber,
Just noticed this thread. Very interesting work, thanx for sharing. You mentioned in one of your posts about using a smaller gauge copper wire. Why is that? I would think a thicker wire with more circumference would enhance the effect. Or would the smaller gauge maybe concentrate the electron movement????
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Hi,
I'm new to the group and have been lurking for awhile soaking up a lot of knowledge, the learning curve is steep.
Inspired by Pirate, Lasersaber, Bodkins, Jenna, Lidmotor, and several others, I've been planting earth cells in my back yard, and winding toriods for that perfect Joule Thief.
My earth cells include one with 78' of mag ribbon and 30+ feet of copper with putting out about 1.5V + and several ma. Another consists of a galvanized fence and a galvanized water pipe running parallel N to S putting out ~ .75v and several ma. A third cell is 20' long next to my shop made with a piece of rebar South and Copper pipe North putting out less than 1 v and low current.
Yesterday I buried a 50' mag ribbon and a 12 gauge 50' copper wire running true North South. It puts out about 1.6V and several ma.
Now, all cells combined are putting out about 40 ma current and about 1.5 V. enough to power and LED and a small DC Motor.
To get the most current and voltage from the cells, one is connected single wire and one cell is connected negative to positive. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but it works.
I plan on adding another N/S copper/mag cell shortly. Hope it is not all galvanic.
I see that Jeanna has had success with her "Power Plant", excellent!
Thank you all for the great work you are doing. It's a facinating hobby. Here's a link to my Youtube channel to see what I up to http://www.youtube.com/user/dcspc1?feature=mhw5 I know the neighbors must think I'm nutts. Shades of Stubblefield *LOL* Cheers!
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I added another long wire earth battery today using 45' magnesium ribbon as the anode south and a 4' long x 1/2" copper pipe north. It puts out over 1.45 volts and about 4 milliamps. It started up fine then voltage dropped and seemed to oscillate. I don't have a scope so I have no clue, I guess the anode and cathode lost contact. I pulsed the ground with a 12 volt battery and it came back on line. I connected it in parallel with my other two long wire cells and was able to light a 5 mm white LED with a Joule Thieif with a small secondary. Please check out my video on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEbdFMKIkA
Keep Moving Forward
Doug :)
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@lasersaber,
I would really like to hear how long your magnesium ribbon lasted... or if it is still running.
My third plant battery went out today.
Granted this is a test on minimal ribbon amounts and the length is around 20 inches for each mg and cu.
The details are on the eer running a jtc thread, but since it relates to the mg ribbon and the full earth battery I am curious.
I hope you have a little time to reply soon.
thank you,
jeanna
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OK This is interesting
Thnks Lasersaber
I have the Mg ribbon and was going to do a circular thing around the neg as suggested to me by Jeanna (And will) as opposed to a straight run but you have done it. Good info. I'm Jassed.
Will be trenching (from N-W corner) a copper 12ga bare (Maybe 1 wavy ^v^v^v^v^v^v and one straight), and a 26ga Insulated Mag wire and 2nd scrapped one side for compairison.
Across the back of the lot (400') east west.
I'm thinking 6" deep then theirs another 200' in a south direction
Might hire a neighborhood kid to do the digging :')
Mg wire to go south along the fence 200' (Could go then 400' east if shown beneficial)
I'm wondering what taps along these wires would show? can we tap more where needed?
How about one Poss and several different Negs?
Another question is this wire by itself as Opposed to adding to my berried elements
Yah this is fun.
FrznWtr