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Author Topic: Joule Thief replications - not overunity  (Read 85466 times)

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2010, 06:59:47 PM »
can you provide such data or did you only do it half assed?

"half assed" huh? Go talk to someone else, or do your DC measurements, lol.

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2010, 06:59:47 PM »

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2010, 07:02:40 PM »
"half assed" huh? Go talk to someone else, or do your DC measurements, lol.
so you really only ran one test then didn't you pauly?

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2010, 07:04:46 PM »
btw, from here after I'll probably just quickly skim over your posts, so in case you ask, the fixed resistor measurement was done by measuring the temperature of the resistor above ambient, and then doing the control experiment to find the DC power. It's all DC measurements.

The other test of using the BCP0650 for the load was measuring the DC current & voltage. The control experiment was when I datalogged the BCP0650. Again, DC measurements.

Sorry, but for now I don't have time to teach 101 Electronics & Physics here. Bye.

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2010, 07:04:46 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2010, 07:13:22 PM »
btw, from here after I'll probably just quickly skim over your posts, so in case you ask, the fixed resistor measurement was done by measuring the temperature of the resistor above ambient, and then doing the control experiment to find the DC power. It's all DC measurements.

The other test of using the BCP0650 for the load was measuring the DC current & voltage. The control experiment was when I datalogged the BCP0650. Again, DC measurements.

Sorry, but for now I don't have time to teach 101 Electronics & Physics here. Bye.
is that another tacit admission that you only ran one test?

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2010, 04:05:10 PM »
Well I don’t know for sure if the joule thief is overunity but it sometimes it feels like it when I look at my solar garden joule thief charger. I took the circuit board out of a solar garden light (Westinghouse item #474005) and have it hook up to charge a AA battery and run a red LED. Though the Joule thief, itself is not overunity but the overunity shows up in the battery due to the radiant energy that is put into it. The solar garden light is design from the start to run as long as it can on its AA battery and I have taken advantage of that. I’ve been running over a Week on the charger and every time I do my measurements more voltage has been put into the battery then what was taken out, and my charge battery is a non rechargeable too.

My run battery started off at 1.499 volts while my Charge battery started off (dead) at 1.073. Today my run battery reads 1.303 volts and my charge battery reads 1.355 volts; I lost .196 but gained .282 volts! Not bad for a battery that is not supposed to be charged, nor does it get warm and the run battery is still able to power a LED.

I do agree the joule thief itself is not overunity, but the overunity shows up in the batteries!

I’ve have improved it too, because i figured that the LED is just wasting power so I hook the original solar panel from the circuit above the LED, as to keep the extra room light out. With the lights on the panel outputs .180 volts, with the lights off at the middle of the night the panel outputs .171 volts. So I take that extra voltage and feed it to the charge battery and I gain overall an extra .001 in the charge battery, but i’ll take it! This just furthers proves that this can be used as overunity. I’m charging a battery to a higher condition then what the original battery had, heck I could charge my dead battery with other batteries to keep them going and the best part is that I can use non rechargeable alkaline batteries.

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #109 on: October 15, 2010, 04:05:10 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #110 on: October 16, 2010, 04:21:08 AM »
To prove overunity with a joule thief you need to make a joule thief charger. One battery will charge another but where the overunity will not come out of the joule thief itself. Overunity is anything that is 100 percent efficient so lets say the run battery has a 100 percent charge on it and slowly it charges up a battery and runs a LED. So lets say that the Joule thief is only 80 percent efficient so that means that only 80 percent of the original 100 percent gets put into the charge battery. To the closed mine you would think it is not overunity but you forget that the charge can now replace the run battery and do more work as to charge another battery and run a LED. So a Joule thief charger is 180 percent efficient, thus overunity. You can now do more work then the original 100 percent you thought you had because you recycled the energy which gives you an extra 80 percent run time.

So what we learn is that the Joule thief is not overunity but does lead to getting overunity.  ;D

Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2010, 07:33:05 PM »
 
   Regular AA batteries will work only to a point, as has been mentioned many times before. They will lose their ability to recharge, as they were designed on purpose to be thrown away, and not hold their recharging very well. They are a losing battle. In anycase they can be used to prove the point,  but not very well.  Much better to use New rechargeables, so you don't waist time and effort.
   I have made good use of some old discarded 3.6v cordless phone batteries that are now recharging well, using the Jt.  Usually it is only one of the three old batteries that is bad, and not all of them. But the best thing is to buy new rechargeables, as AAs are not that expensive.  There is not much point in getting the last bit of juice out from old used up AA batteries.

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2010, 07:33:05 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #112 on: October 19, 2010, 02:10:54 AM »
No-load voltage, especially as measured by a modern DMM, is not a good indication of battery charge or the energy content of a battery.

The no-load voltage can be influenced by all kinds of things, most especially in this context by "spike charging" using brief pulses of considerable voltage instead of a steady DC trickle at a volt or two above the battery's nominal voltage.

"Fluffy charge" or surface charge it's called, and lead-acid batteries are especially prone to it.

The only reliable way to measure a battery's state of charge, or energy content, is to discharge it fairly completely through a precisely known resistance, and graph the voltage/time curve. Just looking at the no-load voltage isn't enough.

Any mechanic can tell you about failed car batteries that read 13.5 volts on the voltmeter, but can't start the car, because there just isn't enough real energy behind that voltage.

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2010, 05:45:43 AM »
No-load voltage, especially as measured by a modern DMM, is not a good indication of battery charge or the energy content of a battery.

The no-load voltage can be influenced by all kinds of things, most especially in this context by "spike charging" using brief pulses of considerable voltage instead of a steady DC trickle at a volt or two above the battery's nominal voltage.

"Fluffy charge" or surface charge it's called, and lead-acid batteries are especially prone to it.

The only reliable way to measure a battery's state of charge, or energy content, is to discharge it fairly completely through a precisely known resistance, and graph the voltage/time curve. Just looking at the no-load voltage isn't enough.

Any mechanic can tell you about failed car batteries that read 13.5 volts on the voltmeter, but can't start the car, because there just isn't enough real energy behind that voltage.


TinselKoala

I agree with  all that you have said here........but  there  are things that are important that you did not say.

Yes what  you call a fluffy charge does exist

That does not mean that the prosess is  less effective.

It  does not mean that  the  impulses  will not  charge  the battery as well as a conventional  charger.

I  have a 14 Ah  SLA battery that I often use for  powering a JT......... I have not charged it with a normal  charger for  around 2 years now..... I just  have a JT charging it

As far  as a lead acid battery showing full  voltage  but does not  have enough power  to turn over the engine....... yes this does happen....... it is called sulfation ........JTs  can often  remove this  sulfation.......this is a well know  fact.


gary

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2010, 05:45:43 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2010, 06:35:46 AM »
I think that experiments with caps instead of batteries will narrow the variables associated with batteries.  Especially with those new 3,000 farad supercaps at the new low price.

Bill

Offline guruji

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2010, 08:41:28 PM »
I think JT if it is tuned rightly regarding turns to the transistor base can produce very high voltage and charges quite fast producing a white glow to neons. Maybe when produces very high voltage it would be near OU.
Thanks.

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2010, 08:41:28 PM »
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Offline NewEnergyHope

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #116 on: October 20, 2010, 04:48:26 PM »
Hello. I think I might have something worth looking at.

Please take a look at this circuit and let me know what you think. I have built this and have had some "interesting" results.

All the components are generic, but the largest supercap I have now is 6 Farads. (I know values many times that exist.)

Try starting the circuit by temporarily charging the supercap.

(I don't believe a Joule Thief style circuit is capable of overunity, but I think there is a possibility of the supercap "translating" surrounding
energy (ZPE?) into usable energy. This wouldn't violate any of the laws of physics, but it could possibly give us access to energy we previously have not used.)

I have read the topics on this website for quite some time now and am very impressed with what I have seen. This is my first post.

Offline NewEnergyHope

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #117 on: October 21, 2010, 07:36:40 AM »
Just wanted to say I added a 1N4001 diode in series with the LED that seems to
help the circuit "stay alive longer" (another 1N60A might work better there because of the lower junction voltage, but alas, I don't have one....) I have also tried increasing the value of C1 to 10uF, which produces brighter flashes, but my overall goal is to extend the operating time using the ultracap rather than a battery.

I would sure like to see what could be done with a lot larger ultracap...

Offline guruji

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #118 on: October 21, 2010, 11:22:34 AM »
Once I did a circuit with a 650F cap that gadgetmall posted but I'm afraid using it cause don't want to charge it above it's voltage :-\ .
Is there a safe and simple circuit that if it goes beyond it's voltage can drain the charge or light a bulb for safety?
Thanks.

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: Joule Thief replications - not overunity
« Reply #119 on: October 21, 2010, 04:19:00 PM »
@guruji

Just buy a zener diode on the needed value and try this:


 

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