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Antigravity => Lifters => Topic started by: Phil on April 06, 2005, 06:35:16 PM

Title: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Phil on April 06, 2005, 06:35:16 PM
I read that NASA tested a lifter in a vacuum and when it was pumped down to near-earth (about 60 miles altitude) it no longer flew. As the vacuum was bled off the lifter began flying again.. that would seem to prove that the lifter is a capacitor and was creating ion wind. In 1980 I built a negative ion generator using a car coil and a pulse-circuit to fire it at high frequency, off of the secondary I placed a high power diode and soldered a large sewing needle to this. When in use you could feel the ion wind up to about 2 feet high. If you held a paper above it it would "float" on the wind. In the dark you could see a nice blue glow coming off of the tip of the needle. Even at the time I told my wife if I made a light balsa-wood and paper 'vehicle' and used threads to keep it over the ion generator I could make people think I built an 'anti-gravity machine.....
I think LIFTERS are interesting but doesn't belong in antigravity catagory anymore more than a helicopter.   :-\
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Kysmett on April 06, 2005, 07:16:33 PM
This is all well and good, and I agree.  I think the application should be developed, however, as an atmospheric means of propulsion, if possible.  Looking at Tesla's flying machine(or what is available on it) it seems that he intended to use these same principles for direction control, coupled perhaps with a different means of maintaining altitude.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: hartiberlin on April 06, 2005, 10:27:27 PM
Yes, the Lifters seem to have as the main propulsion the ion wind effect, but
some bigger units might also have somekind of Bielfeld-Brown effect.
This effect is a few ranges more weak, so it is hard to measure.

But I agree, this should be developed as a new helicopter replacement.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on April 07, 2005, 01:02:20 AM
The tests I saw using the vacuum held an asymetrical capacitor within a confined area in those vacuums. On some, the walls of the vacuum chambers were nearly touching the test lifter/model.

The problem I see with that is that capacitance changes and so does the effect when other objects and/or conductive/obstructive materials are in the vicinity of lifter operation.  It's all too easy to just say. "when we pumped out the air, it stopped working".

No doubt lifter technology uses ion wind for thrust, but after toying with them a while I think there is more to it. The 'wind' just isn't enough.

I have a pre-theory, you might call it, in that the lifter gets thrust not only from directional speed of ions spittng from the anode, but that charged air within the magnetic field of the lifter becomes a sort of lace-work in the air and the speeding ions punch a hole through this lacework while speeding towards the cathode and they create tiny vortexes. These tiny vortexes help push up the lifter from the very sides of the cathode and they also, you might notice, prevent the ions from reaching and sticking to the cathode. On one side of these horizontal vortexes the friction "climbs the air" lacework. On the other side of the vortices, the friction rub against the cathode, pushing it in an upward direction.

On top of this, it is hard to think that other helping causes related to anti-gravity are not at work here. Any time you have a magnetic field, vortices and ions all in the same place, it's quite early to just say 'it's all wind'.

Truth is, NO ONE knows what all is involved in making a lifter work. We just have to leave it at that for now.

SOj
Soj
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Kysmett on April 07, 2005, 03:02:15 PM
There has to be a way of measuring the thrust generated by the ion wind and subtract that from the tension on the wires that hold the lifter down.  If there is a significant difference, then yes you are right, there is another factor involved.

Can the ions be measured with a small annemmommeter (I could never spell that) or wind meter.  Or perhaps you could put a lifter on the scale, on short(like one inch) guy wires.  Then as it lifts off, if the ion wind is the main propellent, the thrust will push down on the scale, and you should either have an increase in weight, or no real net change.  Figure the forces involved, subtract the guy wire tension (vectorially of course) and you should end up with a number that represents the ACTUAL ammount of unknown force present.  Divide that by the perimeter of the lifter, and you get an overall unknown thrust per unit of lenght.

that might put this ion wind thing to bed once and for all.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: iceweller on April 07, 2005, 07:10:31 PM
  Additionally, using a pulsed power supply clearly shows increased thrust; you get better thrust with lower peak voltage than using "pure DC" at a higher voltage - this leaves room for thought. On a further note, the tests that I have seen conducted in vacuum used "Pure ripple free" DC. I agree that with a clean DC voltage most of the lift is generated by "ionic chain reaction" but not in the case of a pulsed DC. It is not only the voltage that counts - a critical aspect is the frequency and the type ringing that occurs with the lifter-PSU circuit (an LC).

   I have asked this before, but my posts never got through on the lifter group on the Naudin list so I will try again. I don't know if anyone knows, but this design apparently was replicated for the first time by some Michigan high school students along with their professor and presented it at the science school expo. It performed so incredibly that it called the attention of the "observers" and the project was "modified". I have heard that the design initially was not really as it is presented now by Ventura or Naudin. I have asked if anyone else had any information about this but never heard any feedback so if anyone has heard or has any information, please post it.

   Regards
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Phil on April 08, 2005, 06:54:37 PM
Thanks for all the insightful replies and I appreciate the fact that the people on this site doesn't automatically "flame" someone for bringing up a sensitive (to some lifter experts) issue.
I agree there seems to be a lot more than meets the eye (or brain ;D) on this technology and your replies really got me to thinking, as an example while experimenting with my ?ION MACHINE? I noticed that if I moved my hand over the top (I?ll call it the ion-charge) I could ?trace? the shape of the field above the needle. I was reading some notes I jotted down at the time and I wrote that the ion ?wind? felt like it was spherical? almost like a ball of unseen force above my generator (it was quite amusing and felt cool on the hand and face like there was something there but not really ?blowing? like a mechanical fan would create.
As food for thought, perhaps it should be called an ?ION FIELD? instead of ION ?WIND? since it seems more like a ball of energy than a ?blowing? effect..? if that being the case maybe the lightweight lifters are in fact sitting on this ?ball?? and if there is any truth to this theory just maybe (if they indeed won?t work in a vacuum) they require the atmosphere as some part of the required equation to work?
I might seem to be contradicting myself in comparison to my first post but I guess the reason we have forums like this is to hear what everyone has to say and then start the thinking process all over again.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Kysmett on April 08, 2005, 07:51:29 PM
Do you have a smaller version than the one you posted?  could you put it on a scale?  or better yet, operate the lifter, tare out the scale and then slide it under.  Any change in the reading will indicate a downward force.  Perhaps not ion wind, maybe the force of this sphere you mention.  In anycase, it would be cool to see if there is a measurable effect beneath it.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on April 08, 2005, 08:19:36 PM
Lifters make use of the exact same principle in all of those sharper image "ionic breeze" air purifier units, and although the effect can be made to do useful work....the real performer will force couple gravity or the Aether directly. ?This, I believe, is what was accomplished via the Kowsky-Frost discovery.

At the center of 'establishment science' resistance to the idea of Aether....is a rather robust 'misdirection engine'. ?It is known that the Apollo astronauts could not see stars outside either the moon or earth's gravity field. ?The warping of Einstein's 'space time' or Aether, accounts for a giant lens which gathers such light enabling us to resolve it. ?How can one navigate such an environment?  If such craft were able to generate their own fields....then they carry their lens with them!

It was foretold that man would obtain the knowledge to traverse the heavens....seeking to find the very throne of GOD himself. ?Knowing as we do, in our fringe areas of study, that extraterrestrial forces are hard at work here.....One would do well to ascertain for himself, which forces make use of him.

And after having made up his mind, discern which activities are the most important at this time.....re-inventing the wheel, so to speak......or actively aligning himself with those powers he most respects and seeking to ascertain His will and then do it.

Peace,

TS out
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on April 08, 2005, 11:08:14 PM
This is the very thing I am talking about when referring to 'lace-work'.

Thanks for all the insightful replies and I appreciate the fact that the people on this site doesn't automatically "flame" someone for bringing up a sensitive (to some lifter experts) issue.
I agree there seems to be a lot more than meets the eye (or brain ;D) on this technology and your replies really got me to thinking, as an example while experimenting with my ?ION MACHINE? I noticed that if I moved my hand over the top (I?ll call it the ion-charge) I could ?trace? the shape of the field above the needle. I was reading some notes I jotted down at the time and I wrote that the ion ?wind? felt like it was spherical? almost like a ball of unseen force above my generator (it was quite amusing and felt cool on the hand and face like there was something there but not really ?blowing? like a mechanical fan would create.
As food for thought, perhaps it should be called an ?ION FIELD? instead of ION ?WIND? since it seems more like a ball of energy than a ?blowing? effect..  if that being the case maybe the lightweight lifters are in fact sitting on this ?ball?? and if there is any truth to this theory just maybe (if they indeed won?t work in a vacuum) they require the atmosphere as some part of the required equation to work?
I might seem to be contradicting myself in comparison to my first post but I guess the reason we have forums like this is to hear what everyone has to say and then start the thinking process all over again.

Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Phil on April 09, 2005, 03:35:01 AM
Lace? Whatever are you referring to? I'm a manly man with Harley boots, a beard, leather jacket and I like purdy gurls!!? ?;D? ?Oh, maybe you meant something else :o
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on April 09, 2005, 11:02:42 PM
What? No doily on the seat?  :P

Lace? Whatever are you referring to? I'm a manly man with Harley boots, a beard, leather jacket and I like purdy gurls!!   ;D   Oh, maybe you meant something else :o
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Phil on April 11, 2005, 07:04:01 PM
Hmmm... no doily but I do STAND! Well, I cried when I watched "Sleepless in Seattle" but does that count?  :P
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 16, 2005, 12:22:57 PM
Watch out for misinformation from government tests, I don't have the ability to create the vaccuum
they can but if you are looking for the truth from USA then I got a nice bridge to sell you. Remember
they are the same people that tested this , declared it doesn't work, and labled it top secret.

They tested this originaly at a fraction of the required voltage, and were fully aware of the fact, and
they are against developement of this technology because it does not show up on radar.  Poor
them.

That would ruin the nice data base they have built for every man woman and child, and they wouldn't know
exactly where everyone is. Screw them I believe T.T. Brown he tested this in France in a vaccuum in a
government facility and they could afford to produce a powerful vaccuum there.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on April 20, 2005, 11:16:54 AM
I would have to. I have never seen it and have to take your word as a gentleman and a biker.

;-)

Soj

Hmmm... no doily but I do STAND! Well, I cried when I watched "Sleepless in Seattle" but does that count?  :P
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 23, 2005, 04:47:37 PM
Ok Soj I'll tell you what is on my mind feeble as it is,Take a nonferris sheet of metal
and set a couple of strong magnets north to south poles together almost touching
each other.Leave enough air gap for the sheet to slide though easily.Drop the magnet
through the gap.You will notice there is a great deal of resistance to movement.
I think the electro-magnetic energy of a lifter is creating a great deal of this force.
Enough to overcome gravity.It may in this case take a great deal of power to
work in a vaccuum.I'm sure you've noticed that when you change voltage the
effect is immediate and the hight over the lifter is not sporadic, it immediately
assumes a new altitude and stays there.Pulating power is a little more erradic,
but produces much more lift,I'm trying to figure out why, that's why I have been trying
to run coils in parallel. I tried charging  caps between 2 coils to raise the potential
difference twice what it would normally be with + and - ouputs from the coils. I
didn't gain lift so now I want to try pulses from zero to 120kv to compare lift to
2 30kv ignition coils with a voltage doubler between them.The doubler didn't seem
to increase lift much but I suspect The 2 coils ordered will.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: rlm555339 on April 23, 2005, 05:21:59 PM
The "magnet dropping through an aluminum pipe" thing is a Lenz's Law eddy currents demonstrator from way back.  Can do it with an aluminum pop can and a coil too.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 24, 2005, 08:40:50 PM
Ok so they gave the effect a name, I don't know were these scientist come up with
the law part though. I live under the assumption there is at least 1 exception to
every rule.However , I propose that the electromagnetic wave acting on the skirt
of a lifter produces a great deal of the effect and overcomes gravitational force,
this being much harder to see as the magnet is no longer a solid tangible object
you can look at.If you apply spin theory it would might explain why a pulsating DC
current would provide more lift than a static DC current.To say the front of the wave
propagating across the skirt aligning the spin is condensed , better aligned and
producing more power than the part of the skirt that has already just been powered
and is at a static energized state. I hope I am saying this in a manner that you can
understand what I'm thinking about.Lenz Law Yay!!! It would be great if we could
figure out how to continuely pulse power through the skirt. Visually speaking (In
the manner of a jacobs ladder).To create many of these wave fronts, then we can
find out weather or not I'm full of bull feeces on this or not. 
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: rlm555339 on April 24, 2005, 11:11:22 PM
We are speaking of two separate things, I think.  Lenz's magnetic effects are not like your ionic breeze, I don't think.  But then.............nobody really knows "what" magnetic waves are, do we?  So maybe they are?
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 25, 2005, 03:58:26 AM
I read the cloud theory the other day , just be cause they could view the
subatomic structure better and could see stray particals they felt the need for
a new theory. There's so many holes in the new theory I tossed it out in
about 12 hours. But the spin theory works and the cloud of subatomic
particals could be caused by stray intersections from harmonics and noise.

The implications of subatomic particals being intersections of electromagnetic
waves would be enormous, or to say things like change of state,(solid, liquid,
gas) can be controled electronically. Also transmutation, magnetic properties,
gravity and time. And last but not least creation of material and instant
placement of it any were in the universe is probably possible.

In fact it would point to the fact that all actions and reactions are electromagnetic,
if all observable materials are constructed electromagnetically.Take heat for instance
usually observed in the presence of oxygen , could be a speacial type of resonance
between the oxygen and the fuel.But hydrogen wich will burn without oxygen in
the right proportions, H2O, will not burn, possibly because electromagnetically
elements in the molecules can't interreact.

What I'm trying to say is an electromagnetic wave has magnetic properties and
should be able to react under the right circumstances like a magnet and display
all of the reactions and effects of a material magnet.We ought to be able to
create any other type of effect also.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: rlm555339 on April 25, 2005, 07:19:39 AM
You might find this link interesting.  Ever hear of the Philadelphia Experiment?  Supposedly Tesla and Einstein both had something to do with that.  Unified Theory, Mauntauk.........it all has to do with what you are talking about.  Magnetism and anti-gravity, time space, invisibility, etc

http://www.crystalinks.com/phila.html
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: iceweller on April 25, 2005, 12:39:03 PM
  I wouldn't stretch it that far - the "Philadelphia Experiment" is Realtivistic based (read: time travel) and this has nothing to do with Tesla, who was vehemently opposed to Relativism so I would toss that out the window too.
  What is true though is that the more recent "subatomic" or "plasma" theories do nothing else but confirm Tesla's Ether theory leaving out the Relativistic interpretations. Every "ponderable body" has electric content and as such is intrinsically linked to magnetism and it's effects. What changes is its interaction with the surrounding ether, this is what gives the appearance of a "gravity". If you have the time, please read this explanation where I attempt to explain it:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Tesla%27s_Dynamic_Theory_of_Gravity

    Regards
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 25, 2005, 05:03:02 PM
Well Tesla was a genius with a high mechanical aptitude wasn't he. You may have noticed
though he skirted the existence of matter completely.A light emits electromagnetic waves
and some of these, his terms can be cross referenced with other peoples as a rope can be
distinguished with vortex. His work has been hidden from us proving it works and the powers
that be don't want his work to reach the hands of the people.But you maybe overlooking
the fact that while they were withholding that work they haven't been sitting on it, they
have gone far beyound his developments and I'm more interested in what developments
they have made beyound his work they are hiding from us that you don't even have a
clue about it's existence.There are a 1000 ways to skin a cat and likely 100 ways to
modify, create, and defeat gravity, and just as likely 100 different ways to produce power in
all the other catagories on this site that haven't been discovered by the people and many
of them aren't known by the government.If they released all his work uncensored today
we'd still be a century behind.







 
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on April 25, 2005, 07:09:49 PM
Which begs the question:

Then how far are 'they' behind?  Behind the One who created this complex proving ground we call home, that is. 

The simple way I see it,  they are light years squared behind Him and streaking in the wrong direction as they seek mastery of our base, physical realm....so the question of IF and how far ahead 'they' are is thought provoking and highly subjective.

The true technology is less a 'matter' of matter and it's manipulation.....and more one of energy.....or more importantly, energy sources.


And once one has been shown the Ultimate energy source.....reinventing the wheel, so to speak, is like 'playing in the safe place' and avoiding the greater issues rushing quickly now, to meet us, each individually, head on.


Free energy devices won't save you. They won't postpone nor subvert the inevitable.  They would titillate and entertain you for a moment in time......or serve, as the greater number of technological advancements have, to distract and subdue your higher thought processes while a large pot of 'frog soup' is being prepared for a 'feast of kings'.


Rev 16:13-14


And while they play about with His creation.....thinking themselves mighty, having been tricked by the false one into thinking themselves allied with the Almighty.....then suddenly that day will come upon them.


Matthew 24:29-31
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 26, 2005, 05:28:05 AM
When we approach any subject with an electronicmagnetic wave from now on, I think it
may be wize to try to visualize a magnetic componet, just to see if it works, try the left
and right hand rules.One or two extra minutes might reveal something.Have you read any
discriptions of spin and magnetic influence from 1900-1950 scientists and have it go right
over your head.I can think of 2 immediately that give me the willies just to think about it.
This was a topic they believed was very important, they spent a lot of time documenting
experiments and trying to help you understand a conclusion that they felt was educationally
important. Edward Leedskalnin is the first of the two,he writes to all as they are 3 year olds,
and when he gets to the end he expects the reader to find an enlightenment I didn't find.
Then Viktor Schauberger (hope I spelled that right) spoke of reactions (via vortex) in his
pump that seemed important to me,I'm sure he was talking about atom flipping. Again I
didn't get it,understanding the function of a vortex still escapes me.

Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on April 26, 2005, 07:33:07 AM
I have certainly proved to my satisfaction that a common dipolar arrangement behaves as described and I cannot perceive a better explanation for my observations than the 'spinning string' description.? Every test of this observation hasn't failed to conform to the model.? It appears as well, that these strings may increase noticeably in size commensurate with field radius.? The vortexual nuances and complexities of field interactions are staggering in consideration.?

I have made considerable comprehensional gains by observing the interactions of large and very tiny magnets as well.

I am working on a website and if it is ever allowed to exist,? I think it might prove somewhat interesting.


Peace,

TS





Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Kysmett on April 26, 2005, 03:33:28 PM
I'm not sure that proving something to your own satisfaction is really a unit of some measure, but I'm willing to hear your theory in full.  The hints you give in reference to it are intriguing.  Lay it on me.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on April 26, 2005, 07:18:59 PM
You know something Kysmett?  Good point.  I'm not sure either, although I would take a stab at it and say: No.


Also, your dedication to sciential protocol is noted.? Take two units of 'my satisfaction' and call me in the morning......


Can I get an lol ?


Seriously though,? I prefer to leave the unit labelling and other such details to the......well, 'detail guys'.? I am working well outside their framework....and wouldn't have it any other way, really.  Besides, I'm positive that the correct names and standards of measurement will be revealed to me in due time by those who are......'more established'.


Peace,

TS
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 27, 2005, 05:35:12 PM
I understand becoming satisfied, you got to do it over and over and you drive
youself crazy about the one test that didn't work out right, and have to be
actually sure, and finally you become (satisfied) not the personal gratification
mind you. Satisfied that you setup the experiment correctly,got the results
recorded correctly,and last but not least have found results that can be
duplicated by anyone, anywhere, anytime ....Any help I can get on vortexes
I will appreciate.When you get your site up let me know.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: iceweller on April 27, 2005, 11:42:23 PM
     
     Tesla didn't "skirt" the existence of matter (infact he said a body without force is like a body without a mind, that is what invalidated the re-emerging Relativism which links and exchanges matter with energy) - why did you come to this conclusion? After all he has attempted to explain with his ether theory and his devices, it is rather the contrary. Tesla even "deconstructed" the human being simply saying we all respond to different stimuli, like his described automatons. His research in X-Rays and vacuum tube emissions and their descriptions all have to do with matter intrinsically and the associated effects. I am naturally aware of the possible developments using his technology, but this does not mean one must discard the origins - to the contrary. I see no direct link with his work and the "vortex" research. Yes these are modern times, but this doesn't necessarily mean we are further ahead. As you say, if we were to be given all his classified research, we would need to  pick up from there - "we" as in the general public, not the various "elites" who have been benefitting from this technology until today. The point of departure dates back to the early 1900s, that is what we have left behind and what has been lost and occulted. What do modern Relativistic theories really do? The ether based "electro-propulsion" (ala MHD pumping) worked back in 1900 when Tesla demonstrated it as it did evidently during WWII up unti now, and most of these theories didn't even exist then so why do we need them now? Because they are "old"? Who is to judge this? Why is it that more and more scientists are presenting "new" theories with "their own touch" which are a bad copy of the "basic" Ether Theory? The more we go on, the more sensible scientists will see that there is something wrong, unless they are payed to "dance along" as most are. When we talk about ether theory, there is only ONE Ether theory that holds, despite the fact that one can demonstrate mathematically what he wants to. Then from here, we can develop all sorts of Free Energy or whatever devices one wants, with this or that method, but the base is one and it is solid, it doesn't skew or change in time. Once you learn how to "master" this trick, you can apply it to a variety of different inventions and Tesla mentioned this more than once in his works. The conversion of one type of energy to another is the key to access this, and in his propulsion system the trick is to convert weak mechanical force to strong electro magnetic using the ether as the conversion medium, and it is free. He also mentions this in his "The problem of increasing human energy" document, how to create a neverending "sink" to make a machine work indefinately, such as his self acting oscillator yielding 70% surplus output. So you see, different devices, different situations, but all linked to one theory and one method of using it properly. All that comes directly after this, all the developments and all the inventions are a mere "consequence" - but this doesn't change the fact that it is because of this one theory and how to lever it that all of this is possible. We must not make the mistake of being presumptious and feeling superior due to our present technological state. We are in this critical situation because not enough of us have been able to stand up and realize what has been wiped out from our science text books and from history. There is nothing wrong in looking ahead and into further scientific developments, but we must know where we have been first in order to not be kept running around in circles and achieve nothing.

   Regards

Well Tesla was a genius with a high mechanical aptitude wasn't he. You may have noticed
though he skirted the existence of matter completely.A light emits electromagnetic waves
and some of these, his terms can be cross referenced with other peoples as a rope can be
distinguished with vortex. His work has been hidden from us proving it works and the powers
that be don't want his work to reach the hands of the people.But you maybe overlooking
the fact that while they were withholding that work they haven't been sitting on it, they
have gone far beyound his developments and I'm more interested in what developments
they have made beyound his work they are hiding from us that you don't even have a
clue about it's existence.There are a 1000 ways to skin a cat and likely 100 ways to
modify, create, and defeat gravity, and just as likely 100 different ways to produce power in
all the other catagories on this site that haven't been discovered by the people and many
of them aren't known by the government.If they released all his work uncensored today
we'd still be a century behind.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on April 28, 2005, 01:58:31 PM
I prefer to think of it as being totally enraptured in the exploring of His handiwork.

And, any Father will get great pleasure watching his children exploring the world around them as they learn and grow.

I guess it's a question of heart: Are we trying to explore God or become one ourselves? One motive is a divine edict set forth in Genesis. The other removed Lucifer from heaven and likewise can alienate us all.

 ;)

Soj.



Free energy devices won't save you. They won't postpone nor subvert the inevitable.  They would titillate and entertain you for a moment in time......or serve, as the greater number of technological advancements have, to distract and subdue your higher thought processes while a large pot of 'frog soup' is being prepared for a 'feast of kings'.


Rev 16:13-14


And while they play about with His creation.....thinking themselves mighty, having been tricked by the false one into thinking themselves allied with the Almighty.....then suddenly that day will come upon them.


Matthew 24:29-31
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on April 28, 2005, 03:18:05 PM
I am over 50 now,probably don't have that many years left, and
would like to give mankind something. God took on a job of a
proportion I wouldn't , to stop time and ceaselessly run a project.
I would never seek that, it would be better to end up the floor sweep.
Let's just get a man in the air or turn a generator. Glad to see you
up and running.Think it's the hint of warm weather, mine wants the trim
painted all the awnings redone and expects me to rebuild the front porch.
Well, the trim does need a coat.The front porch got important cause the
of the nieghbor though I think.He built a new one last year.Before I let
her bully me out of all my experiment time though,when she starts to
complain about the porch I'll give her a key to the tool room and hand
her a new hammer and crowbar.Oh and Soj the statement on religion
was not directed at you, someone else in the group makes totally
confusing statements that have nothing to do with energy, they were in
the old group and I believe they have just joined here.They haven't posted
yet that I know of and I got my two cents in before they start.My
personal outlook is God gave us all these things and the rich are hiding them
from us.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on April 28, 2005, 09:48:42 PM
I totally agree with you, Sojourner!? (Oops....I fear you may now be 'guilty by association' in Raburgeson's eyes. lol)


Raburgeson,? So, then I took it correct, that by your use of the term 'Some' in your religious post killer thread....you were referring to me and my 'confusing' alter ego?? As I registered here two days after you, and have posted at least as many times as yourself, I am left with the tentative supposition that you possibly refer to someone else....although I am at somewhat of a loss to guess who it could be!? ?


And even more befuddled how that person could kill threads using religion without having actually posted yet....unless you speak of witchcraft, voodo or some such.


Glad you got your two cents in before they started!? Let's hope nothing gets 'them' started!


Peace,

TS
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on May 06, 2005, 09:36:47 PM
No, you're good Techstuff, there's nothing wrong with religious caution,
there is something wrong with making someone feel they are affronting
God by trying to find and give something away to help people. Imagine
the help in free irrigation alone to feed the hungry.That does not upset
God I'm sure.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TechStuf on May 06, 2005, 09:55:38 PM
I understand your misunderstanding....(lol)? The problem to which I refer is, of course, NOT in discovery.....but what is, by and large, being done in it's name.....and the results which inevitably follow.



Peace,

TS


I'll take your avoidance of my valid questions as an affirmative, in which case.....I'm sorry you felt the need to beat around the bush regarding your obvious distaste for my personal viewpoint, misunderstood though it seems to be in this instance.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on June 16, 2005, 05:50:40 PM
I was saying if we look at the spin on the skirt and the spin on the adjacent air
molecules caused by the electromagnetic wave propagating down the skirt it
may be propelling the lifter more or less like squeezing a bar of soap. If this is the
case lifters would not work in a vaccuum. But, lifters could still perform valuable
transportation tasks. Tell you what , try sealed baggies around your skirts with air
in them if it still lifts then to work in a vaccuum all you have to do is take a small
amount of gas with you.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on July 16, 2005, 03:29:28 PM
Someone did try putting a lifter in a sealed bag the lifter works.The ionic winds pressure would be evenly
distributed within the bag. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~reginald/liftbubl.html  . Somewhere I said
if you take a bag of air with you a lifter should work in a vaccuum. About that bar of soap.Metal molecules
can move if you have a strong microscope you can see the molecules crawling around the surface. If this is
a result of spin then I propose this is not the optimum surface for lift.Crystaline forms have locked molecules
and I think molecules that can't move cannot cushion the lift effect. To clarify I think some of the molecules
are moving and lift effect is being lost. I wonder what a nano coating of a cheap crystal ( say Quartzite )
on the skirt would do? Someone look on the net for flying crystals I'm dragged of topic so far I'm going to
have to regroup my thoughts to producing high voltage again.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Sojourner on July 25, 2005, 09:49:23 PM
I bagged a lifter and didn't get squato.

Soj

Someone did try putting a lifter in a sealed bag the lifter works.The ionic winds pressure would be evenly
distributed within the bag. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~reginald/liftbubl.html  . Somewhere I said
if you take a bag of air with you a lifter should work in a vaccuum. About that bar of soap.Metal molecules
can move if you have a strong microscope you can see the molecules crawling around the surface. If this is
a result of spin then I propose this is not the optimum surface for lift.Crystaline forms have locked molecules
and I think molecules that can't move cannot cushion the lift effect. To clarify I think some of the molecules
are moving and lift effect is being lost. I wonder what a nano coating of a cheap crystal ( say Quartzite )
on the skirt would do? Someone look on the net for flying crystals I'm dragged of topic so far I'm going to
have to regroup my thoughts to producing high voltage again.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: triffid on July 27, 2009, 06:15:59 PM
No one's posted to this thread for about three years.Last night I learned that honey bees use static electricity to pollenate flowers with.As their wings beat 230 times a minute air flows over the hairs on their bodies making the hairs electrically charged so when a honeybee lands on a flower pollen jumps to the bee's body.About 4 years ago a friend of mine built a lifter in okla,USA.While it did not fly until later.He was able to later and sent me a picture of it in the air.So I know a 30lb power supply will not fly a less than a ounce paper craft beyond the length of the wire.So I have thought about power supplies small enough to put on a lifter.So if a honeybee can produce static electricity as it is flying so maybe a lifter should do the same?Afterall a lifter weighs more than a honeybee.Too bad I'm the first in three years to post here.Lifters are not dead just sleeping.Triffid
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: triffid on July 27, 2009, 06:18:42 PM
Sorry I'm the first in 4 years to post here.Airplanes were invented in 1903 but it took until about 1927 to produce a plane that could carry its own weight in payload.Theres hope for lifters.Triffid
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on June 01, 2014, 10:07:40 PM
Lifter reaction may be far from simple. I have an experiment for you, if you'd like! Put a ball magnet in a plastic ring that will keep it under the lifter and see if the lifter produces a vortex. If the magnet spins it does.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: TinselKoala on June 01, 2014, 10:17:53 PM
Would you expect the lifter itself to spin in the opposite direction?
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on June 03, 2014, 03:26:12 AM
I don't have a flyback to work with right now, damn it. I'm trying to picture this in my mind. Maybe it does not work in a vacuum because it has no material to react with. Picture a 4 sided lifter. Where does the charge discharge to? Is it a simple ion path to the skirt? If so does the discharge create a magnetic field parallel to the wire. many vortexes spinning in the same direction? Does the wire produce a magnetic field around the wire and the skirt producing a strangely charged toroid of sorts producing a vortex. The stable lift that shows no sign of flipping over suggests that a vortex is present. You have to consider to get an idea what I am thinking.

Iron filings on paper sheets may provide the answer, that and testing for a vortex.

I would expect the lifter not to spin because there is equal opposing force directly on the opposite side. There must be a left or right hand rule that can be applied to a lifter.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Paul-R on June 03, 2014, 06:27:26 PM
If lifters are truly antigravity, it should not matter which way up they are.

Try inverting, and see if its weight stays the same or goes up.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: raburgeson on June 06, 2014, 01:11:02 AM
It is like a near vacuum wind that was described on Mars. It would have to be very high velocity to be noticed. There is more to it and we should figure out what. The government would not just let it go without testing. That's were civilian science falls short. By the way I don't buy the sparse atmosphere story on Mars. The most glaring proof this is a lie is the fact that they turned around and designed Balloon type rovers soon after wards that would not work under those conditions.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: Conductor on January 26, 2019, 06:50:54 PM
Gravitec and others have done multiple tests in a vacuum and it still works so there's more going on than ions bumping into oxygen molecules and creating a wind.

Blazelabs did the maths and there's no way an uneven, kitchen-foil surface with the ion wind rushing over it can produce the lift seen in some experiments.

An Israeli group notice anomalous power increase using AC rather than DC at certain frequencies.

I have a lot of documentation on the topic if anyone wants me to zip it up and stick it on the web.

Once chap has managed to build a lifter with an on-board power source, a LIPO battery :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdg0_hjuksQ

He did this before MIT did it.
Title: Re: Lifters: Anti-gravity or simply ION WIND?
Post by: telecom on January 31, 2019, 02:16:28 AM
How big is the lift?