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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 03:28:18 PM

Title: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 03:28:18 PM
I have contacted Stefan and he confirmed that a working TPU can win the prize. Please everybody avoid flame in this topic.

@Stefan, I have found the answers for the issue I mentioned in my email last night (or morning?). Please move it in the appropriate one as it seems to be locked right now. Many thanks.

---------------------------------------

I, Anthony Sprader claim that I have succesfully replicated/reverse engineered the torroidal performance multiplier transformer device (TPMT, formerly referred TPU) presented by Steven Mark.

The device itself is a combination of a low frequency switching power supply in kHz range and electron accelerator that provides more electrical power and current than the primary side receives.

The cause of the significantly higher drained electrical performance is that the primary coil has a diagonal long step winding technique that causes rotating magnetic field flow along side the secondary coil. The output electrical current is a sum of two different type of current. The first is created via conventional electromagnetic induction by the primary coil and has normal hole and electron flow components while the gained electrical current is a spontanous electron flow without hole counterparts.

Due to the unusual nature of the gained electricity the majority appears on the closest PN semiconductor rather than the load where electrons can find they hole counter parts trapped between the PN layers. The closest PN semiconductor is usually the switching transistor component on the primer side. The higher primary input causes exponentially higher hole and electron imbalance in the primary driving coil thus the heat loss is also increasing exponentially between the switching PN layers.

Therefore there are several possible ways to decrease the amount of impacted electrons on the PN switching device.

1. Decreasing the input performance and duty cycle to decrease the exponential hole and electron imbalance and increase the efficiency by using TPMT devices in multiple stages to boost the output. (presently it needs 2 stages min. to power a 250V 50W light bulb on 190V)
2. Using multiple primary coils and switching them after each other to rest the PN layers on each switching channel. (e.g. Johnson-counter and several oversized IGBTs or FETs)
3. Avoiding the use of PN switching devices.

In case of winning the majority of the prize would support further developments of the technology to comply requirements of mass production.

(Please read the email below with the description I sent to Stefan this morning and disregard the typos as it was very late. Photos and vids are coming.)

-------------------------------------

> how I could send you back the test device, when the test time is over or would you like to donate the device to me ?

Yes of course I have already made a coil for you yesterday that naturally you can keep. The one I mentioned puts out 190V to the 50W for ~30 seconds before you can smell the plastic on it, so it's a bit below 50W and since I don't have light bulb for 1W handy at the moment to verify the requirements I decided to build a larger device for you that comfortably supply usable energy. Before I send it I will also video it and upload it to my youtube channel.



> a 9 Volts Battery would be okay, if it runs for days and puts out already 50 Watts.

I wouldn't push the prize with the 9V battery, I just enquired whether I have a chance with a device that not I invented firstly (replica/reverse-engineering) to win th OUP as I need to put more money in research to refine the device, make it smaller, more efficient, safe for mass production, make formulas for sizing and keep the thing simple. I have already spent a few thousand pounds on it over the years. So I just wanted make sure, also I'd like to understand what's happening inside the working models before I apply. I believe in complete work before opening the champaign. :)

Today when I built your device I found that the energy moves in the device is far above 1kW, the only obstacle that it comes out where you would never expect it: it doesn't heat the coil at all, they remain cold but cooks the switching FET on the primary coil nearly instantly. My device works, yours not yet... :D We always learn.

I was driving it with a power supply (0-3A / 0-30V / max. 90W) and switching it with a single IGBT (rated 1200V/74A in pulse and 500W in fully open state) between 5 and 500kHz/50% square waves (I can't remember the freq exactly but it is only important when you put the load on it). When I put the PSU to the max. I saw a big flash after ~3 sec. and the soldering on the mentioned well oversized IGBT's middle pin has molten and released the wire, which was ~1.5mm in diameter and sticked to the next pin to it. That should be an enormous amount of power couldn't appear in the secondary coil and naturally impossible to do it with a 90W input.



> Does it only depend on special coil configurations or do you use also magnets in it ?

Yes and no. Magnet is not necessary but the coil winding is very important and as I noticed so far this is where one of the key secret is. I use a "triangular" winding technique for the primary that seems to be vital. I worked out this technique while I was playing with the Rodin coil (that could be good for primary with one coil and large spaces) and I was thinking how the current flows in it. It flows in a cicular pattern and after it takes the ~360 degrees it comes in the next to it and doing it over and over again until leaves the coil. I remembered when I started the TPU research I had coil that worked but I have successfully caused a thousand pound damage in my lab during the research and I couldn't work for nearly a year on it. 8-10 months later when I've bought the new instruments I didn't remember clearly which coil worked how I connected them, but a couple of days ago a guy posted a schematic and I had a dejavu. Something told me that I have seen this technique before which is almost identical to what I was doing. I digged out that coil from the crate, connected it and the signal was what I expected. Then I took a look at SM's naked coil with the magnet but this time on the JD released vids and it clicked in when I saw the winding on the rim. "That is the one! I know now why I did it this way back then!" The winding pattern is the same as you would wind a Rodin coil but not necessary to stick to the 150-degree-step (mine is wound with 60 and actually this is another thing that I want to verify which is the best). So you go around with long steps, leave well enough space and when you're done with one circle you simply continue and lay the next wire in the space of the previous circle. You repeat this technique as long as you want, but (I think) you need to do min 2 circles (later need to be verified again).

I give you details on the first working device (which performs far better than the second one :D ):

to replicate it you'd need these things:
- Paper mailing tube, 80mm in diameter, 70mm long and 2mm thick wall
- 0.38mm for primary (I wouldn't use it again, need a thicker min 0.74mm)
- 0.74mm for secondary (same issue, not thick enough, min 1mm)

Both of the wires are regular enamelled solid copper wires used for transformers. (After seeing what I have already seen here I wouldn't be surprised if this device doesn't work with soft wires. I think this is why the current has to struggle to flow in the secondary. Possibility for Litze wire also should be verified later.)

Oversized switching MOSFET/IGBT and large heatsink (for now as this is where the power loves to be built up and not on the load hooked up to the secondary).

This is not important at all, but I use a 9A mosfet driver. That was just handy in the breadboard and I need something to increase the signal as the max output 3.5V of my waveform generator.

Use a knife and cut off the tube and cut in 3 gaps about 1mm deep and 120 degrees to each other on the top and bottom edges, but make 60 degrees offset between the top and bottom sides. So when you look at it they will be in a zig-zag pattern to each other and not above and below. Then you place the primary wire in the 1st gap and keep windind it perpendiculary to the tube. When you're done with the first circle all gaps should be filled with wire. Then you are keep going in this form, but you lay the next circle about 3-5mm to the previous wire.

When you are done with the primary, wind the secondary on it as you would normally do it with e.g. a Tesla coil's secondary. (I did it very tight but later we can try it out with gaps.) I used a tape between the P/S coils to fix the primary. When you look inside your coil it should show a twisted form similar to the Rodin coil and the primary wires are hovering over the tube. An important thing: probably you remember the little guy and the TV that exploded in the 60s that SM mentioned. The coils on the CRT tube are wound in this pattern, this is what I used as a starting point when I made my first device many years ago. (AFAIK this winding pattern is still in use and I think that a part of that energy used in CRTs are not all from the mains.)

Ok, when your coil is ready, hook up the PG, PSU, the FET to the primary coil and scope to the input and output. Do it without load on the secondary! Set the PG to 50% square wave and a low frequency as a start, like 100Hz and slowly increase the power on the PSU. You will see a beautiful DC hump growing. This is only possible if you have a slight rotating magnetic field as the winding with the big spaces have a very low inductance. Basically this device is a transformer with a Rodin coil wound on a tube and a Tesla coil on it. It is a simple as this. :)

Now, put a load on it and find a comfortable duty cycle that your load likes. Increase the frequency and the input. If the load is too big you can fry eggs on the heatsink as all the power will appear on the FET. I think this is because of the nature of that current is different. That is not a normal current flow where you have both holes and electron flow. I think the balance of electrons and holes are not equal. One of them is trying to build up on the PN transision of the FET/IGBT. I don't know yet, it also should be investigated.



> Does it use any bifilar coils, where the inductance cancels each other from the 2 parellel wires and uses high frequency for standing wave effects?

No, it doesn't need anything like that.



> On what frequencies does it work ?

Not critical, depending on your load. It is nothing but a performance multiplier transformer where the output is the sum of the input and the extracted energy. You can use it in a wide range from 100Hz to 1MHz if you have a well shielded room as there is radio broadcasting in the higher frequency ranges and at that power you can disturb it.



> Do you also need 3 driver frequencies ?

No but it would be easier to distribute the heat and rest the FETs. If you shoot multiple channels in series as I said in my first post on your site (a year ago or 2) you can decrease the built up electrons or holes (whichever is the case) so they will not pull the current toward the fet and will go in the other way, the load on the secondary.



> I am pretty excited to hear, that somebody really has achieved a selfrunning TPU.

Thanks. :) I am also feeling better as I pay 100 pounds electricity every month to heat my 42 sqm appartment. Now at least I can get warm at the over unity heatsinks powered by a 1.5kW IGBT and hooked up to the screwed up TPU I made for you. :D



> a 9 Volts Battery would be okay, if it runs for days and puts out already 50 Watts. That would be hardly to achieve only with a small 9 Volts battery....

Maybe I have forgotten to tell the 9V think was done by 2 or 3 TPUs in series and the bat was quite hot. Actually I used them as step-up transformes after each other, but rather they would cause drop in the current they increase both the power and current. I think those are not inductors on SM's TPUs, those ar mini TPUs driving the big ones. I looked at his devices again and I understood everything. (when we are over the hard work perhaps I will make some drawings on how his devices work)

The LTPU probably has 2 mini TPUs and the coils are in series on each small TPU, but they are connected not in the usual way and rather having 2 coils on each mini TPU, those are 4 or 8 and the crossing is below the device. The foil cap is perhaps in parallel with the output to smooth the HV spikes. I guess the LTPU has 2 driving channels for heat and peak distribution and for resting the transistors. I noticed that this fenomenon happens when you put the freq two high, also the IGBTs have slower falling edges thus they can trap holes or electrons in an unexpected way.

I used FETs before but if I wanted to make usable power. They simply got a whole over the plastic if I gave them the juice. It doesn't mean that you can't do it with FETs, but with these coils I used you need well oversized swithing circuits. I saw a video with John Bedini and saw one of his kW device and there were several (8?) switching FETs/IGBTs in TO-247 package in parallel configuration to power a single driving coil. The heatsink was the case itself. That relatively small coil didn't look that tough and would not require that. I think he has the same problem with the gained energy, it wants to go toward the closest P/N semiconductor. (before I forget: schottky diodes could be another solution as they work differently, no PN semiconductors)


> You can also start posting the blueprints or just a circuit diagramm first and then add stuff like videos or pictures later.

To be honest some characters are a bit arrogant and I don't feel to comfortable standing on the stage. That is why I contacted you.
Diagrams are trivial, simple switching circuit, the critical is the winding technique.

I attached a few pictures on how the first zig-zag coil was built. The paper tube coil is the working coil, the big one (yellow inside) is the one I built for you, on the picture it is unfinished. That doesnt work.

Possible reasons:
- soft wire for secondary, the profile is not circular as the collected electrons want to move and spin in a helix form
- 2-sided crossing primary coils can cause disturbance in electron flow
- thick insulation on the secondary, therefore bigger the gap between conducting media. Plumbing pipe could be ideal for secondary with thin plastic tape on it for larger devices.
- too many divisions on each circle, should be decreased and verified, 120
-------------------------------------

UPDATE

IMPORTANT SAFETY REQUIREMENTS

1. Never feed back the output in the input directly, only by filtering it and take it back before the switching devices as it will extract literally infinite energy and create an extremely high electromagnetic field in the environment. Probably that was the cause of the accident with the TV that SM mentioned killed a 5-year-old child when the electron accelerators coil got an input from another coil that it triggered as secondary (very likely accidentally due to overheating).

2. Separate the primary and secondary units galvanically as the output current is hazardous, also keep that in mind if you connect instruments, like scope on both the primary and secondary coils you will make a common ground through the scope between the two separate circuit.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tagor on January 05, 2010, 04:52:40 PM
very good news
 
did you think to sell it , or a kit , soon ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 05:01:31 PM
very good news
 
did you think to sell it , or a kit , soon ?

No but you can make a business from it. There is no patent application on it and if somebody could have patented it Nikola Tesla.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 05, 2010, 05:17:02 PM

Today when I built your device I found that the energy moves in the device is far above 1kW, the only obstacle that it comes out where you would never expect it: it doesn't heat the coil at all, they remain ***COLD*** but cooks the switching FET on the primary coil nearly instantly.

 ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 05:26:38 PM
I am trying to answer your PM but I think something is wrong, as for my outbox you don't receive it.

I paste it here:

Hi Paul,

I don't know whether you received the previous message as my browser crashed so I answer your question again.

Thanks for your message.

Yes, I noticed that yesterday on the large one I built for Stefan the primary is cooler than both the ambient and the secondary coil. The secondary is about on room temperature. It is the sign of created inertia and gravitational force. so if you have multiple primary coils and shoot them after each other that would feel a shooting inertia and gyro effect that SM's withnesses felt.

I already figured it out how to create gravitational force in the centreline instead the circumference. :)

BTW Stefan's device is a monster, killed a 500W IGBT in 3 sec. due to my winding error.

Kind Regards
Tony

UPDATE: To those who are not familiar in the subject, the cooler primary coil means negative mass which is gravity.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: nightlife on January 05, 2010, 05:29:08 PM
deleted by nightlife
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 05:38:41 PM
I would be interested in seeing your winding methodology.

If your statements are accurate then the comments by SM regarding tubes would be on target. They would be more forgiving than the solid state devices.

I await further posts and perhaps pictures of the coils from the working unit(s). Congrats on your success BTW.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 05:39:04 PM
Why are the output and input amps not mentioned? Are you basing the output wattage on the bulbs wattage rating? If so please note that the bulb will still light up using less wattage then what it is rated for.

 The volts and amps are needed to be known before wattage can be properly determined.

Hi, I am trying to paste the photos and screenshots of the instruments and the device but I have to resize them as the CMS wont let me to paste them.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 05, 2010, 05:47:58 PM
Hi, I am trying to paste the photos and screenshots of the instruments and the device but I have to resize them as the CMS wont let me to paste them.

Hi,

Maybe you could also email the full size photos to Stefan, and he could post them. And maybe you could CC me the full size photos via email as well -->

http://globalfreeenergy.info/contact-me/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/contact-me/)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 05:49:15 PM
@AgentGates,

Thanks for working on those pictures.

As soon as the required info is shared I and others would be happy to replicate the device to coborrate your results and perhaps assist in resolving the heating and output hurdles.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 05, 2010, 06:00:34 PM
I would like if someone could figure a way to get Tony some money to help further his efforts

Pay pal Or???

Chet

And yes I will [send Tony some moola]

PS Tony,
No more Grandma's and Grandpa's freezing to death
Absolutely AMAZING !!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 05, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
Good job agent gates. I hope Stefan gets the device and awards you the prize. This forum will make sure the tech will advance very quickly. Seems like 2010 is going to a free energy explosion.
 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 06:13:07 PM
Thanks for the kind offers for hosting the pictures, I figured to manage posting them onto my website so no need to mess with resizing.

Winding technique
>>The tube with cuts on both sides (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020230.JPG)<< I did it with 6 on both sides but on the next pic you can see that 3 is enough in "zig-zag"
>>After the first "circle" is done (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020231.JPG)<< you just continue with laying it to the next to the other wire.
>>This is how the the primary coil looks when its done (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020232.JPG)<<. Mind that this is a one channel primary input, so not as efficient than 2 or 3 in an alternating way. Just for feeding my curiousity I made another coil where I didn't cut the wire after finishing, but contiuned to fill the gap between the complete coil. That performed worse than the original one. That is the one I used to drive the main TPU.

Coil hooked up
>>This is how it looks with a few turnes of secondary (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020233.JPG)<<. It is not what it looks like after finishing just found a piece of copper on the workbech and thought I'll try it whether it worths to open another roll. :D Yes it does, you will see that in the next pictures. :) The results are already remarkable only with 3 turns.
>>same thing, a bit sharper photo (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020233.JPG)<<

Instruments without load
>>The input without load on the secondary (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020240.JPG)<< I put the voltage DC source to the max.
>>The output (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020239.JPG)<< Pulsed DC, exactly what we were expecting. :) 64V peaks. Not too much but it isn't bad with 3 turns of secondary.

The load
>>The victim (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020238.JPG)<< 2.2 ohms, 5W resistor, just to be sure... :)

Instruments with load
>>0.02A drop on the input DC (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020242.JPG)<<
>>1/3 peak on the output (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020241.JPG)<<

After a minute operation the resistor became hot, temperature between 40-50C. I don't mention poor 500W IGBTs...

Stefan's coil
>>This is what it looks like after the first round and a bit more (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1030244.JPG)<< Mind the number of "zig-zags", I tried it with smaller steps, also used a bit thicker for primary wire and the electrons want to flow in this one, rather than the 250V 30A rated soft wire.

>>The IGBT murder in the circuit (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1050245.JPG)<< :)
>>3x500W=1.5kW IGBT's (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1050246.JPG)<< in parallel. Still not enough, they would cook in 10 sec if I would leave them running.

My tube coil design
>>This is another design for primary coil (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/PC260227.JPG)<< I made it a few weeks ago and planned to stick a perfectly matching Tesla secondary coil inside the hole. (not in the middle) Also I have an idea to wind a very long coil in the same fashion and place a copper tube as a secondary in the centerline that reaches the primary inside. This is actually a "flatten" or net version of the Rodin coil that you can make any long. My first plan is to drive it as a TPU primary coil. (2 channels). My theory is that you can make a very fast spinning magnetic field that could move the electrons even faster in the conducting medium. It can also be perfect to build very efficient eddy current motor that you can place inside of the wheel of a car. You don't need complicated transmission system and it also drains most of the energy from the ambient.

A REQUEST TO EVERYONE

Please make sure you save and download everything you see and read here. Photos, documents, and the videos and upload them onto P2P networks. Torrent, emule, etc. and preserve this technology, dont let it loose again. Test it and spread it! We dont need another SM who sits on it for decades for prestige or other reasons while millions dying in war on fossils.

Thank you for your kind messages and offers, but I wouldn't like to accept money until we see self-running device, this was my request to Stefan as well.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tagor on January 05, 2010, 06:16:40 PM
I would like if someone could figure a way to get Tony some money to help further his efforts

Pay pal Or???

Chet

And yes I will [send Tony some moola]
 

PS Tony,
No more Grandma's and Grandpa's freezing to death
Absolutely AMAZING !!

yes
 
if you have some TPU
 
we can buy them , to help you ?

 
 
PS :
 
very nice pictures !!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 05, 2010, 06:18:54 PM
Agent gates,

I saw a # missing in your link list above, and also found this one on that website,

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020236.JPG
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 05, 2010, 06:20:09 PM
Seems like 2010 is going to a free energy explosion.

And it all started in 2009 with Steorn's demo. Lets give Steorn credit.  ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 05, 2010, 06:28:07 PM
If it does work then Toroidal fashion is to unefficient, Linear is more efficient because you can pack more punch into a smaller area with less wasted space.

take one heavily wound secondary from a Tesla coil and then tap each wind to find all the hot spots and then work with it. polarity can throw you off. so be careful of your studies.

'Space' waste not!

truth be told!

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 05, 2010, 06:46:17 PM
Finally ;D ;D ;D

Well Tony
you sure picked the right Guy[Stephan] to do this with.

And definately the right place for help!!

Chet

And I suppose as Tesla stated

Men will call the power to them in the field.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: NerzhDishual on January 05, 2010, 07:33:06 PM
.................
Seems like 2010 is going to a free energy explosion.

Yes, I have the same feeling.
This is too what Clif High is telling in his webbots predictions (The Shape of Things To Come ).
(http://www.halfpasthuman.com/ (http://www.halfpasthuman.com/))
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: itanimuLLi on January 05, 2010, 07:47:50 PM
hi, AgentGates
Thank u for sharing the information with us.
Can U make a youtube video how u wind the coils. Btw  icant se any pictures can anyone send over here.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 07:58:36 PM
If it does work then Toroidal fashion is to unefficient, Linear is more efficient because you can pack more punch into a smaller area with less wasted space.

Yes that is right. I have a picture of a coil for that.

@everybody

Please read the comment I posted with the pictures. Some new pictures and and a request to you. Thanks.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 05, 2010, 08:13:01 PM
@agentgates
Thank you for this un-selfish attitude and all the information posted. It is a good start to avoid the Steven Mark effect... ;)
Do you have an estimate appr. when the toroid will reach Stefan? Has he responded anything since?

Where is Stefan btw?   ::)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 08:13:14 PM
What happened to the pictures? I do not see any  links
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 05, 2010, 08:15:16 PM
What happened to the pictures? I do not see any  links

They are camouflaged in the text.

@agentgates

Maybe it's better you make the text bold or glow that represents a link.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 08:25:21 PM
Thanks, I found them after I posted the reply.  ::)

Interesting, I wonder what would happen if you reversed the operation of coils? pulse the secondary and see what you get on the primary.... Just a thought.

I would be interested in trying to create a LC tank with the primary too and use a spark gap to feed it and see what the secondary see's. Just some interesting thoughts.

I will be giving this design a try. and Agentgates is correct with the open TPU design (first one) on the spool, it does look like his except he uses the secondary to wind over. I would like to try a simple 555 timer with a step up transformer to boost the input closer to 1KV or so at low mA's.

Loads to try.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 08:30:49 PM
@agentgates,

Is that a left handed wind on the primary I see?

Also have you tried a lesser or greater angle on the primary winds? And if so what did you see?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 05, 2010, 08:35:11 PM
use one set of coils to make your volts then use a another coil set to make your amps. combine the two sets for your current. this way you have high voltage and high amperes.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Operator on January 05, 2010, 08:44:32 PM
If this is indeed a source of such a huge power then two questions arise:
1. The design is very simple. Why has nobody observed this effect during billions of experiments before? People have successfully developed and applied technology for extracting power from a controlled nuclear chain reaction and missed this simple and clean path? Unbelievable.
2. Where the hell the energy comes from? What are we dealing with?
Tomorrow I'll try this design... I just can't believe it until I see the bulb glowing on my table.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 08:50:21 PM
from what I see this is not a linear wound coil in the traditional sense but more like a Rodin coil as agentgates mentions. It is extremely simple looking and I believe the coils angle plays the role, I believe it has to do with the torsion of the field and perhaps the left handed wind of the primary coil as well, thus the 45 degree angle.

What would happen if it was wound in a right handed manner? What would happen or be experienced if one was left handed and another was right handed and those were stacked and inter connected?

Loads to try
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 05, 2010, 09:11:11 PM
Hi all,

Thank you for the questions, I will answer them tomorrow if you don't mind, as I didn't sleep much in the last few days. After I slept enough will look into the theoretical side to find the source of the energy.

I think I can't wind anything in the next couple of days as I burned my palm last night. Please try out those things mentioned in multiple ways if you can and the more eyes will see more.

Kind Regards
Tony
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 09:42:34 PM
No problem Tony, I was asking since you might have already done some of this. If not we can try it too. I will start when I get home, I am currently at work so not much I can do yet. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 05, 2010, 10:00:31 PM
Can anyone post the circuit diagram if known?
Thanks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Paul-R on January 05, 2010, 10:06:30 PM

2. Where the hell the energy comes from?
There is no shortage.

Check out this awesome free ebook:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk

Google for:
1. Hal Puthoff,
2. the 1957 Nobel Physics prize
3. Westinghouse and their Minuteman Missile patent

We are living in a soup of energy. It is a matter of connecting to it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 05, 2010, 10:09:45 PM
There is no circuit just a coil configuration and how it is wound.

Input low voltage low amps (mA) he is using 31vdc @ .09A (90mA) and getting over 1KW out

Current issue is the BEMF (or ???) to the input drivers which causes failure due to over voltage/curent. Read the thread for more on this.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 05, 2010, 10:30:19 PM
There is no circuit just a coil configuration and how it is wound.

Input low voltage low amps (mA) he is using 31vdc @ .09A (90mA) and getting over 1KW out

Current issue is the BEMF (or ???) to the input drivers which causes failure due to over voltage/curent. Read the thread for more on this.

From what I understand there is a circuit that consists of more than just a set of coils.
This is what I derive from the earlier descriptions:
- A pulse generator drives a fet driver
- The fet driver drives three FETs that are connected in parallel
- The three drains are connected to one end of the primary winding
- The power source is connected to the other end of the primary winding
- A secundary winding is wrapped around the primary winding and holds a load.

I wonder whether there is any flyback diode used to protect the FET(s) against the large voltage occurring at the drains right after switching off the primary coil....

The description of the output power is still vague.
It's not said that the output is > 1KW. It says 'it moves > 1KW'. Probably to the switching fet(s), instead of the output.
I'll have some more patience to see what exactly the input / output configuration is.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: itanimuLLi on January 05, 2010, 10:46:25 PM
still cant find any pictures can somebody help
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tak22 on January 05, 2010, 10:52:27 PM
in his last long post you'll see that the start of most lines are links, just not highlighted.

tak
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Tink on January 05, 2010, 11:00:11 PM
The "hard to find" pictures people ask about.

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020230.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020231.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020232.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020233.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020233.JPG (same!)

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020240.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020241.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020238.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020242.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1020241.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1030244.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1050245.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1050246.JPG

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/PC260227.JPG

For post see;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8586.msg219664#msg219664

Thanks Tak22 for correcting me. :)

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2010, 12:34:33 AM
Hi agentgates and All,
I moved this topic now into this
Devices applied for the OU prize
area.

I confirm, that agentgates
has contacted me by email and has applied for the prize.

I hope he will first post videos and picture with driving
a lamp load from a small battery, so we see the OU power
output.

Many thanks agentgates.
I hope it will change the world.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 06, 2010, 12:37:01 AM

Quote:
" I wonder whether there is any flyback diode used to protect the FET(s) against the large voltage occurring at the drains right after switching off the primary coil...."


Would the stress be relieved by attaching a load of some type to the point where the extra current migrates ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 06, 2010, 12:52:44 AM
Seems like user Bolt agrees

Quote aug 31 09:

its a while since a looked at the TPU but i always maintained that coil banging with pulses, and logic control is wrong!

In the past few months/years many many more RE/OU devices are shown on the net and they all have common themes. SM said the answer lay with Tesla and he is right. Its only a case of resonance and self oscillation. Again SM emphasized there is no mass control circuits and in fact no more then self running oscillators.

What i do know based on the work of Tesla and Don Smith is that RE = RF in a node of time space and magnetic coupling does not suffer entropy loss and this is the KEY!

In order to make RE you must first excite the local ambient space. Anything over 100Khz enters the RF arena and split EM can occur. 

Take HV coil transformer as used in strobe supply it will give 5Kv if we drive with  5Khz clock using a 12 volt source battery.  If i couple this through a balun driver i can match this into a collector loop of 5 turns.

if i take this  collector loop i get this to self oscillate at say 1 meg with a 2,200pf cap and the result will be around 1 meg that contains 5Khz modulation.

If this coil is loaded in anyway i will kill the source! if i rectify this i end up with DC 5000 volts with 5Khz hash as modulation, so far so good. EACH turn on the collector now has 5000/5 turns = 1000 volts. But i don't touch this source and this is unlike what everyone does on this forum is play with the source you must NOT touch this!

Now make another collector of 1 full turn. Its LC =F will be quite a bit higher then the primary driver the ratio needs to be 1.618 higher so 1.618 megs.   In open air non cored magnetic coupled to the source this loop will acquire 1000 volts. Remember SM explained all this in his notes.

This secondary collector will acquire magnetic non loss induction to the primary driver. Its o/p tank is fed to a FWBR and will be 1000 volts and the current is limited ONLY by the wire resistance.

Again if i want more current i add another collector and it COPIES from the source! SM explains all this again in his notes. If i want more volts i add this collector in series to give 2000 volt supply.

SO

What are the magic frequencies? There are NONE!!! only magnetic induction is 1.618 higher then source F

1  Clock driver to start HV

2 Driver RE energizer collector F = diameter of L plus C

3 collector load = F = diameter of L plus C and is tuned to 1st collector for best results look for 1.618 higher then source.

O/p = turns ratio of collector 1 to collector 2 into FWBR = DC PLUS source modulation = 5Khz 1000 VDC

Sounds too simple then read Tesla patents, read everything about Don Smith and Kapanadze the latter has several working systems using RF magnetic induction devices.

Can i build this using parts from Rat Shack? YES Is it simple like SM said? YES and does it work like Tesla as SM suggested? YES Does it rely on resonance? YES and of simple low cost circuits no complex mosfet coil bangers? YES

The minimum number of collector coils required is 2 one source one copy. But i can have one source and 5 copies each copy becomes a NEW supply of FULL capacity.

Don't forget RE = RF in energy transformation!




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on January 06, 2010, 01:09:15 AM
@agentgates

Wow things changing fast around here. This sounds like great news indeed so first I would like to commend you for coming forward with this build spec.

Man I had tried many variations of those coils. Almost like basket weaving. Also reminds me of tests we did with a similar winding of @otto's TV Yoke ferrite idea back in June of 2008. Got so hot it burned a permanent circle on my work desk. I put an image of that yoke coil below. lol

So from what I understand, you feel this design is close enough to the SM TPU's. I am having trouble trying to fit in the physicals of your build with the physicals observed in the SM TPUs.

It would be very essential if you could prepare a quick wiring diagram, hand draw or whatever way so those able to can replicate.

Whatever this is, if it is doing what you say it is doing, then who the hell cares if it is in the SM TPU style or not. What matters is the end results and the build is very easy to do.

I grabbed all the photos and saved each page and will eventually put them on my OU FTP site for redundancy.

Again. Well done.

wattsup
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 06, 2010, 02:31:30 AM
Believe it or not, a few months ago, I had a vision of how to as you say, accelerate electrons, or have more leverage on them and the angle of the windings was part of the idea. Im an inventor as was my grand father and his dad also. My  grand father told me that when he was looking out the window or looking at the tv, that he wasnt always seeing outside or seeing the tv, he said he was seeing visions of ideas and inventions. Basically just thinking and visualizing in the mind. And what you have here , I had seen. It wasnt exactly the same. But the principal and idea were the same. I dismissed it as how could it work. It must be inefficient.  But as we are here, I was wrong.
When I read the 1st post I was shocked. And then I saw the picks and bam, I had to make one. Its not the same wire and such, but it is my attempt. Here it is, made it about an hour ago.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 06, 2010, 03:28:41 AM
@AgentGates,

Thank you, and congratulations.


@all Validation replications up asap

Lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 03:33:27 AM
Ok, Gentleman I gave up to try to sleep and I made new coil. I used the main coil as a base with those small alterations we discussed:

Changes
- 45 degree on the primary angle, that I achieved by cutting shorter tube. The length is now 46mm instead of 70mm.
- I made it a bit tidy, so cut the edge in at every 10 degrees, you will have wire 36 holding gaps on each side. (altogether 72) It makes the winding process 5 minutes on the primary!
- The turnes on the secondary. It was 36 on the completed coil (I didn't post pic on that, only with 3 turn on the same tube) now it is 3 again.
- The gaps between the secondary turns, they were tight now there is 10mm gap. (the most important found)
- The secondary diameter, it was 0.74mm, now 1.40.

What didn't change
- The diameter and wall thickness of the tube (80mm and 2mm).
- The diameter of the primary wire. (0.40mm)
- The materials: solid copper, paper tube.
- My curiosity: still cant sleep. :)


Test environment

Input parameters 500kHz/50% square wave, 31VDC, 0.8A. 3x IGBTs in parallel. Rated 1200V/74A/500W per each.


Conclusions

Positive results
- The output peak became just beautiful. Rises on an exponential curve and symmetrically falls dow. If you make 3 channels of it you will get the "JET-turbine effect" SM said, so we can decrease the input current as well and the IGBT's will not heat as they only need to pile movement on a wire that already has some electron flow triggered by the previous channel.
- RF noise components disappeared after the peak as I wanted, no rectifier bridge needed anymore to clean up the negative range.
- Output peak goes to 153V. No significant drop on it after connecting the 250V/50W halogene light bulb. Only a few volts.
- IGBTs are doing better due to the lack of noise components.

Negative results
- Primary wire is still heating, so time to increase the channels to 3 and change it to a bigger on the next device if still an issue. (The next size I'v got handy is 0.74mm.)
- Voltage is too low to make light on the bulb, so need to increase the secondary turnes and decrease the gaps. e.g fully wound secondary from top to bottom with 2x bigger gaps than the diameter (~3mm).
- Need more spikes to fill the gaps, so the next milestone is the 3 channel and a syncronised driving circuitry. (I have professional equipment with 12 CH pulse generator and an own PC software to create any kind of bit pattern)

Is that a left handed wind on the primary I see?

I don't know what handed that is. :) But it only changes the polarity of the secondary.

Also have you tried a lesser or greater angle on the primary winds? And if so what did you see?

Yes but I also changed some other parameters as well, so we don't know about the result of it. Now the standard is 45 degree and will remain as it seems perform well. But it is a useful idea, later we can try to change it.

If this is indeed a source of such a huge power then two questions arise:
1. The design is very simple. Why has nobody observed this effect during billions of experiments before? People have successfully developed and applied technology for extracting power from a controlled nuclear chain reaction and missed this simple and clean path? Unbelievable.

The design is naturally very simple and indeed the primary winding technique is still in use within CRT TVs as an electron accelerator. This is what I use it for. :) To find simple things is always difficult.

2. Where the hell the energy comes from? What are we dealing with?

The energy is very likely from cosmic background but I will talk about it in a video lecture as it is not easy to understand in writing. I will have to make charts to make it understandable as it is.

Tomorrow I'll try this design... I just can't believe it until I see the bulb glowing on my table.

I hope so. ;) Keep an eye on the updates as I am trying to make it simpler and cheaper to duplicate.

What would happen if it was wound in a right handed manner?

Would change the polarity on the secondary output. :)

What would happen or be experienced if one was left handed and another was right handed and those were stacked and inter connected?

I presume that you'd get very bad results. Remember it is not only a switching power supply, but also an electron accelerator. It is a very important thing you have to keep always in mind.

Imagine the secondary as hose pipe where you want to make a liquid flowing. If its in an untidy pile and you open high pressure water on it it's going to wave to the neighbors. :) In our case it would cause unexpected collisions, rather than a smooth flow. In other words you need to make the electron flow as smooth as possible. You can only do it if you avoid primary-primary and secondary-secondary wires crossing or touching each other.

You create this smooth electron flow with the primary is a spinning manner. You spin up the electrons as vortex and yet it will automatically flow much faster and much more electrons you'd expect at a normal transformer.

I wonder whether there is any flyback diode used to protect the FET(s) against the large voltage occurring at the drains right after switching off the primary coil....

Naturally not as I want that energy to be harvested on the secondary side and not on the primary PSU. :) So Need to adjust the winding parameters to make the flow in the secondary as smooth as possible.

The description of the output power is still vague.

Not really as top IGBTs don't cook from nothing, especially not in 3 sec with molten solder and zinc plating on the back side. (I will post photos of that)

It's not said that the output is > 1KW. It says 'it moves > 1KW'. Probably to the switching fet(s), instead of the output.

Yes, presently it is true but I am on it to get that out on the output.

I'll have some more patience to see what exactly the input / output configuration is.

My task list is presently so long that probably that will be the last thing we do when I finish the demo device in a few days to Stefan and make it selfrunning.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 04:05:17 AM
@wattsup

Thanks for the reply. Yes indeed, we built so many coils that was almost like a lifestyle. :D
And don't worry, now I'll finish this thing in a couple of days and when I have the multiple channels I will get rid of the IGBTs and the heatsink and I'll tickle the electrons to keep them flowing continously. Actually we will get almost a stable DC output at whatever load.

@Magluvin

Very nice coil! Hook it up, but make sure you use well oversized FETs and NO flyback diodes to save the DC PSU. The power drop will be high on the primary side due to Lenz law, will need to decrease the turns on the secondary and keep spaces between them. It has to look like a twisted fishing net and the primary-secondary have to cross each other only on a tiny "dot then space and dot and space again" manner. It will acually create an "electron tornado" in the secondary wire and the spontanous electron flow is only a by-product which we will use.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 06, 2010, 04:25:03 AM
Tony,

Thanks for responding. In connecting two of the primaries I was thinking of increasing output. Anyway have you tried the primary wrapped over the secondary? Or have they been just wrapped over the outside of the primary coil?

as to the right handed coil versus left handed, I am speaking to the direction in which you wind the coil, for instance look at your right hand palm facing down fingers away and relaxed, the thumb indicates the direction you wind in and the fingers indicate the wire direction when looping over the form. So in a right handed coil the wire startsby going over the top and to the left.

I asked about this since it seems that your primary was wound opposite or in a left handed manner, i.e. wire wrapped over the top when starting and moving to the right as you go around the form.

I also noticed that the secondary is wound in a right handed manner (this is what the picture shows for the one you made for Stephen I think

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1030244.JPG

Just trying to help understand your design so please feel free to correct anything I may have incorrect.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 06, 2010, 04:53:13 AM
Hi agentgates,

congratulations in your findings but most of all, congratulations for choosing to publicly share your finding.

Looking forward in seeing more of your results.

Thanks for Sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 06, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
Thank you very much for sharing Agentgates. Congratulations!

Minde
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 06, 2010, 05:18:42 AM
Looks good!  I will be following this with much interest.  Here are a couple of YouTube videos from agentgates' channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omwTNfIlmFw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omwTNfIlmFw)

looks like these are different coil designs, and they light the bulbs for only a second.  If there's a problem with the transistors blowing, I echo the thoughts of some others here:  why not use protection diodes across the fets to block or redirect the bemf?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2010, 05:28:19 AM
Looks good!  I will be following this with much interest.  Here are a couple of YouTube videos from agentgates' channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro)

This was a fake by user EMdevices....
and this
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omwTNfIlmFw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omwTNfIlmFw)

was a fake by user Marco.

@zerotensor
Why do you try to twist the facts ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 06, 2010, 05:39:13 AM
This was a fake by user EMdevices....
and this
was a fake by user Marco.

@zerotensor
Why do you try to twist the facts ?

Oh my, I wasn't twisting intentionally!  I just searched youtube for "agentgates" since he said he had a youtube channel, and that's what popped up.

I hope we're not dealing with yet another hoax here.  The videos are dated "three days ago" so i thought this was the same "agentgates" here, the OP.  I am confused.  maybe its marco or EM back in disguise??  i don't know.  Still, I will watch this closely & hope for the best.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2010, 05:43:31 AM
Hmm,
I will ask him by email,
if it is really his channel.
Maybe he just "collected" these 2 videos there ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 06, 2010, 06:30:27 AM
I found in the comments posted by agentgates on youtube this:
Quote

"Hi, I heard this is a replica of the original device. Do you know anything about how they did it? Thanks."

referencing a different copy of the em video.  It is dated 6 days ago, so it seems that he has indeed "mirrored" these videos on his channel--

@agentgates:  you might want to modify the description on these vids you host on your channel (assuming it belongs to you) to make it clear that this is not your work, lest you be unduly associated with these previous dramas already played-out here on overunity.com.

This little wrinkle has definitely made me pull my "skeptic hat" a little tighter around my ears.  The fact that the only two videos posted on this channel are exactly the two most successful TPU jokes in the history of this forum gives me pause.  I will suspend judgement and see how this plays-out.

I still am pulling for ya, Tony.  I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: havuhung on January 06, 2010, 09:30:15 AM
HI ALL
 I'm sorry.
 I apologize questions touch theme ! 
          [google translate]
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 06, 2010, 09:59:36 AM
@ agentgates:
Thanks for paying attention to my previous posting, despite of the pressure on your findings is so high.

An attempt to visualize the setup a bit more, from my views after reading this thread.
Below circuit is my understanding, please indicate whether it is correct or not.
Maybe we can help in improving.

There are a few fundamental issues that seems not easy to solve.
It also seems to me that with peak voltages on the output only, this system is not yet OU.

Is there someone that understand the reason for the large dissipation in the FETs?
My personal view is that using square wave pulses, the coils will only transform the energy during the waveform transitions, while the FETs consume power during the whole 'on' time of the positive input period.

Not using a fly-back diode will force at least one of the three FETs to consume significant power for a short period of time, since not all three FETs will switch off at the same time, due to small differences between the three.



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 06, 2010, 01:56:38 PM
Tony
Quote:

@wattsup

Thanks for the reply. Yes indeed, we built so many coils that was almost like a lifestyle.
And don't worry, now I'll finish this thing in a couple of days and when I have the multiple channels I will get rid of the IGBTs and the heatsink and I'll tickle the electrons to keep them flowing continously. Actually we will get almost a stable DC output at whatever load.

--------------------------------
Put that together with a nice elec motor and I'll throw that ICE in the dumpster!!

Hook another up to the oven and put the furnace with the ICE

Chet

ICE=Internal Combustion Engine [sorry for the confusion bourne]
To much time in the hydrogen forums [this will be MUCH better]
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 06, 2010, 02:11:25 PM
Please Help.

1.  How does he get from the First Photo Build to the Bottom one?

2.  Where did the Copper Wire disappear to?  It CAN’T possibly be under the Insulated wire, because how can the insulated wire be wound inside the coil form without falling out?

3.  Are these 2 DIFFERENT TPUs, or the same one??

Please advise.

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: nightlife on January 06, 2010, 02:19:03 PM
Please Help.

1.  How does he get from the First Photo Build to the Bottom one?

2.  Where did the Copper Wire disappear to?  It CAN’T possibly be under the Insulated wire, because how can the insulated wire be wound inside the coil form without falling out?

3.  Are these 2 DIFFERENT TPUs, or the same one??

Please advise.

.

 They are two different ones.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bourne on January 06, 2010, 02:28:13 PM
HI ALL
I wonder why Steven Marks was very long and Company "UEC" was sold to those who need to buy this TPU or not? . . .   
                                                [google translate]

Sorry Havuhung whatever you are trying to say has not translated very well. It makes no sense.

Also, while I am at it, Ramset your post is very cryptic. Where do Ice and ovens come in to it :) I must be missing something, I must have!

@ Fatbird, The second pic is 'unfinished' as far as the primary winding goes.

And finally to Agentgates, Well done and thank you for having such a great attitude.

bourne
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 02:57:49 PM
Thanks for responding. In connecting two of the primaries I was thinking of increasing output. Anyway have you tried the primary wrapped over the secondary?

Yes, I've got a coil like that somewhere. It shouldn't make difference in the operation. I just put the secondary around the primary as the latter is fixed for now. I ocassionally removed the secondary or put more and different wires on it to find any difference. So IMHO it doesn't matter which one is above until the primary wires inside are far from the secondary.

as to the right handed coil versus left handed, I am speaking to the direction in which you wind the coil, for instance look at your right hand palm facing down fingers away and relaxed, the thumb indicates the direction you wind in and the fingers indicate the wire direction when looping over the form. So in a right handed coil the wire startsby going over the top and to the left.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes the primary is left handed.

I also noticed that the secondary is wound in a right handed manner (this is what the picture shows for the one you made for Stephen I think

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1030244.JPG

Yes, this is what I made for Stefan but this is bad. The plastic is to thich so the primary and secondary wires are too far, also they ar not hovering inside due to the ~80 degrees angle between them. If you decrease the angle they will hover inside like a cobweb in the corner.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 03:15:18 PM
@gotoluc, minde4000

Thanks to both of you. I'll be on it in the next couple of days to remove the heavy and expensive switching devices and replace them to cheaper ordinary ones those more people will be able to replicate it.

@zerotensor

None of them are my own devices. They are independent replicas. I just uploaded them onto my channel. Possibly some of them don't even work.

I will upload my own videos and will post the links here and change the description on those videos are not mine.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 03:18:40 PM
Hmm,
I will ask him by email,
if it is really his channel.
Maybe he just "collected" these 2 videos there ?

Yes that is correct. I have downloaded those from a Russian website and just wanted to preserve them in case if they are real as I didn't see them on international websites. I didn't look into that whether they are real.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 03:28:35 PM
This was a fake by user EMdevices....
and this
was a fake by user Marco.

Thank you Stefan. I have already removed that and modified the description on the other one.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 06, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
@Tony,

Thanks for the reply. A few additional questions to clarify your design;

   1. from your previous posts the 45 degree angle seems to imporve the operation correct?
   2. The secondary should be close to the primary windings?
   3. The secondary should be wound with spacing between turns to reduce interaction/capacitance between the wire?

   4. Have you used a sweep generator or dip meter to determine the resonance of the primary yet? I ask since knowing the coils resonance may help match the drive frequency and using some capacitance with the primary may help reduce the driving current and possible heating.

Another idea that comes to mind is to use a 1:1 transformer to isolate the driver FET's or transistors from the primary this might help in resolving the driver heating.

Again some ideas you might want to add to the growing list you have. :)

I will soon contribute more than just words or ideas.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 06, 2010, 03:58:54 PM
:D


Step 1.......


Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 06, 2010, 04:15:11 PM
Hi Tony

I made that coil in haste. By the few differences in the pics, I went with the angle you see on the primary.
But now it is 45 deg. I understand NOW that it is still being tested and the theory is not fully complete.

It just came to me as to what might be going on, a vision of sorts and came to some fair conclusions according to these principals you laid out,
1 The secondary need not be in the middle of the primary, or wrapped by the primary, but proximity is necessary.
2 the new and hopefully final deg angle is 45, and it probably should be. we will see. It also makes for more inner and outer primary "crossings"
3 Secondary should be less turns than the primary, or at least not more.

Considering the thin wall tube, the idea of the inside and outside primary crossings need to be close to each other, and apparently the secondary need not be inside the primary.
The star on the wood maybe should be shown much later and concentrate on the tube, but it shows something useful.
So probably the best way to go about it all for the tube style is to use pvc tube with pins on the outside and just zig zag the primary winding outside the tube. This way the primary winding "crossings" are close in proximity also to each other, thus when a secondary is wrapped to it, the inner and outer primary crossings are equally in proximity to the secondary. 

 I say this due to the fact that it makes no sense to have the inner primary windings any further away from the secondary than the outer primary, IF what you state is the case. IF my way is tried and the effect decreases, then I would go with a very thick wall tube, wrap the primary around that, at your 45 deg, then do the secondary to the outside, where the secondary is more influenced by just the outer most angles of the primary.

I am picking up some more wire today and will post pics later.

Magluvin




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 04:15:21 PM
An attempt to visualize the setup a bit more, from my views after reading this thread.
Below circuit is my understanding, please indicate whether it is correct or not.
Maybe we can help in improving.

Yes, thank you for your kind offer, we will certainly make it more compact.

There are a few fundamental issues that seems not easy to solve.
It also seems to me that with peak voltages on the output only, this system is not yet OU. Is there someone that understand the reason for the large dissipation in the FETs?

Yes I already answered this important question somewhere. The huge heat dissipation is because the gained energy moves electrons but there is not equal hole from the opposite direction. At ordinary devices the electric current moves as follows:

1st You create holes on the positive side.
2nd Electrons say: "hey guys, there are some holes to fill" so they will start moving to the positive pole, while the holes are travelling toward the electron flow.

This is normal electric current. The more holes you create, the more electrons will try to struggle to comply the holes "demand".

But in this device not this is what happens. Due to the dot-like crossing pattern of winding and the large spaces between the turns you create vortices of electrons inside the copper wire WITHOUT holes. So how do the gained electrons know that which way to flow in the wire if there are no holes?

Two possible ways:
- They will try to find holes wherever they can. There are plenty on the PN transition layer of the IGBTs.
- They will try to find other ways, like the secondary wire if the electron "traffic" is not to "busy".

Conclusion
- Increasing the diameter of the collector will let more electron to flow inside of it.
- Decreasing the diameter of the primary will let less electron to flow back toward the FETs.
- Increasing the numbers of channels will demand more and much smaller spikes and WILL NOT let the already fast moving electrons in the secondary wire to slow down. (when I am done with this we can remove the IGBTs, presently I am using them temporarily for prototyping)

In other words, we don't need mass circuitries to force the electrons moving that way we want, instead, we already know that how they want to move, so make them their way and let them moving easier.

My personal view is that using square wave pulses, the coils will only transform the energy during the waveform transitions, while the FETs consume power during the whole 'on' time of the positive input period.

Yes but this is the TEMPORARY case. Right now I am working on the multi channel version to throw out the brutal IGBTs and don't let the electrons spin down. I will only ticle them to preserve their speed.


Not using a fly-back diode will force at least one of the three FETs to consume significant power for a short period of time, since not all three FETs will switch off at the same time, due to small differences between the three.

Yes but presently if I use one IGBT that has smaller PN surface than 3xIGBTs. So again they are TEMPORARY solution to protect my low voltage power supply from the spikes and they will be removed in any hour. I oversized them by the parallel fashion to make sure they will not follow the dead one. :)

I don't want to kill the spikes ---> I want to harvest them in the seconday wire and make usable electricity with them.

And an interesting observation: there is a small electrostatic field on the heatsink which proves my theory of concept and the lack of holes.

On your drawing:

Two things are missing. A 4700uF 35V cap between the low voltage PSU and a 56 ohm resistor right after the mosfet driver as I DONT want to turn them on so fast and with a 9A current. The mosfet driver is unimportant but I had to use something to reach the ~10V with my PG and turn the IGBTs on.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 06, 2010, 05:21:50 PM
I see the 'hole' effect that you explain a bit different, maybe we are both talking about the same thing, but let me explain my understanding:

If you charge a coil with current and switch off that current, electrons still keep on traveling to the side of the coil that was initially connected to the positive power source connection. This is caused by the magnetic field that is now present in the coil and leads to a very high amount of 'holes' at the other side of the coil, resulting in the well known high voltage peak.
So, nothing special occurring so far.
In that situation the coil is in a a-stable situation, which is not caused by mysterious effects that add energy into the circuit.

Are you saying that there are even more electrons moved besides the normal electron flow occurring right after switching off a coil?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 05:24:47 PM
1. from your previous posts the 45 degree angle seems to imporve the operation correct?

I don't know whether it improved anything or not as I did some other critical modifications and altogether it performs far better than the first operating device. But naturally if somebody interested may play with the angle. :)

I will also look into it but there are other priorities right now.

2. The secondary should be close to the primary windings?

Yes and they should touch each other's surface on a dot manner.

3. The secondary should be wound with spacing between turns to reduce interaction/capacitance between the wire?

Yes. Both the primary and secondary should be wound with spaces so PRIMARY/PRIMARY wires are far, SECONDARY/SECONDARY wires are far and PRIMERY/SECONDARY wires touch each others surface. (use a thin plastic tape, like clear acrylic to make sure they dont rub each other and damage the enamel)

4. Have you used a sweep generator or dip meter to determine the resonance of the primary yet?

No but you can see it clearly on the scope as you varying the input frq. Resonance is not critical here.

I ask since knowing the coils resonance may help match the drive frequency and using some capacitance with the primary may help reduce the driving current and possible heating.

When you have the 3 channels done and driving them after each other the current flow in the secondary will look like charging a cap and watching it on the scope. Your TPU is operating at the best performance when you get an almost perfectly straight line DC out of it. This is what I got with my first 2 operating device but at that time I didn't really understand the nature of this device so there were some huge spikes and about 40-50VDC straight line out. Therefore I had to give it more juice to light the bulb, and use another stage of TPU to boost the performance.

But the new design is refined. It gives a beautiful rising and falling dome. All I will do to make more and overlapp them and I will get something like stairs until I reached the voltage I want. When I did, I will simply decrease the height of each dome.

Another idea that comes to mind is to use a 1:1 transformer to isolate the driver FET's or transistors from the primary this might help in resolving the driver heating.

Thanks we will look into this one if the multi channel thing wont bring the expected results. :) For now I am focusing onto decrease the "correcting" circuitry and use as small amount of parts as possible.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 06, 2010, 05:36:29 PM
Hi agentgates,
to what DC level do you refer on your scope shots ?
I just see the backemf spike from the coil
and a bit selfoscillation of the coil, but no real DC level.

Where is your zero ground line on your scope shots and
do you have a picture or a video of your device
lighting up the 50 Watts bulb ?

Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 05:44:12 PM
@Spider

Very nice primary coil! The tube is perfect, the wire is perhaps a bit too thick so you will need a strong switching circuit. Later I figured out we can decrease the incoming juice by increasing the number of channels. But anyway, try it out and let us know how it performs.

I made that coil in haste. By the few differences in the pics, I went with the angle you see on the primary.
But now it is 45 deg. I understand NOW that it is still being tested and the theory is not fully complete.


The theory is fully completed, the device not as I am a perfectionist but already operational and gives usable energy. We are already on the second stage and all what I am doing now just simplifying the device to help you all in duplicating it. :)

It just came to me as to what might be going on, a vision of sorts and came to some fair conclusions according to these principals you laid out,
1 The secondary need not be in the middle of the primary, or wrapped by the primary, but proximity is necessary.

Yes.

2 the new and hopefully final deg angle is 45, and it probably should be. we will see. It also makes for more inner and outer primary "crossings"

Yes and to make it clear again, this is vital benefit to increase the output voltage. What is wrong if you make crossing or touch on the same coils turns. So avoid PRIMARY-PRIMARY touch and SECONDARY-SECONDARY touch and increase the # of PRIMARY-SECONDARY crossing to increase the voltage output (by the secondary turns). If the current is not enough, you can use thicker for secondary.

3 Secondary should be less turns than the primary, or at least not more.

Don't count the secondary. Try it. :) If the current is low, use thicker wire. If the voltage is low use more turnes. But later when I am done with the 3x channels it will be even less important.

So probably the best way to go about it all for the tube style is to use pvc tube with pins on the outside and just zig zag the primary winding outside the tube. This way the primary winding "crossings" are close in proximity also to each other, thus when a secondary is wrapped to it, the inner and outer primary crossings are equally in proximity to the secondary.

Yes I have already solved this thing, read the previous posts. Presently I am cutting the vid and will post it in a few hours.

I am picking up some more wire today and will post pics later.

Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 05:49:43 PM
Are you saying that there are even more electrons moved besides the normal electron flow occurring right after switching off a coil?

Yes, this is all I am saying.

teslalset, the primary winding on that coil is 0.74mm and gets warm. Think of that how much energy you need there to get the solder molten inside a 500W IGBT in 3-5 sec and the zinc plating on the back side "wavy". :) (BTW, this thing is already getting obsolate and post the picture soon with the refined version)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 05:58:21 PM
to what DC level do you refer on your scope shots ?

I didn't photo that yet, but will do it in a few hours with vids and photos. (BTW I fried my last fet driver accidentally by closing the output on the poor wireing, so temporarily I'll have to make one from discrete devices)

I just see the backemf spike from the coil
and a bit selfoscillation of the coil, but no real DC level.

That is obsolete, please read my previous comments. :) The new spike is a beautiful HV high current dome in the positive range. (new winding technique with gaps on the secondary)

Where is your zero ground line on your scope shots

A tiny arrow indicates it on the left side.

and do you have a picture or a video of your device lighting up the 50 Watts bulb ?

Yes, soon I am posting them and sorry for the delay with it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 06, 2010, 06:00:33 PM
Ok, fair enough, I guess I have to believe you.
I am very curious how this replicates. I am standby to do this at a later stage, I am waiting for components to build a universal coil driver circuit first.

Thanks for having patience with the stubborn ones amongst us  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 06, 2010, 06:12:56 PM
thanks tony,


This is how i have done the secondary. dont know if its oke. Suggestions?

Ill be posting my results on overunityresearch.com, in my bench, so i wont clutter up your thread any further.

Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 06, 2010, 06:14:07 PM
I don't fully understand the "channel" thing. Are you talking about the channels from a mosfet or a channel representing one coil setup? So three in this case being the secondary of the first hooked to the primary of a second setup and so on.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 06, 2010, 06:59:53 PM
thanks tony,


This is how i have done the secondary. dont know if its oke. Suggestions?

Ill be posting my results on overunityresearch.com, in my bench, so i wont clutter up your thread any further.

Spider

Hello Spider, my friend,

You need spacing between each of the turns on your secondary, according to the instructions.  do not let the turns touch!   ;)

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 06, 2010, 07:06:27 PM
Hi Bruce,

I just read back some posts here and came across tony's advice yes.
I ll change it tommorow and hook it up to the IGBT's I have.

Are you replicating this too?

Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: jox on January 06, 2010, 07:15:34 PM
Hi, the oblique felt tip line represents the inside wind of
the primary showing where the two primaries cross.The
horizontal felt tip lines represent the secondary coil
positions, is this correct.
regards, after many attempts hopefully this one works.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 06, 2010, 07:25:41 PM
Hi Bruce,

I just read back some posts here and came across tony's advice yes.
I ll change it tommorow and hook it up to the IGBT's I have.

Are you replicating this too?

Spider

I am watching with "interest" for now along with some others.  We want to see some things a little more difinitive first before all hands on deck.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 07:35:17 PM
@Spider

The secondary is not ok. Use just 5-10 turnes, not more and start it from the top, finish it on the bottom with similar spaces you have between the primary turns.

I don't fully understand the "channel" thing. Are you talking about the channels from a mosfet or a channel representing one coil setup? So three in this case being the secondary of the first hooked to the primary of a second setup and so on.

I am about to use 3 primary coils and stay at the one secondary.

@Everybody

Please be patient, presently I am preparing with a complete video presentation for you, my request would be to read carefully the posts and ask your questions in this topic instead in emails and PMs on my youtube channel.

I was not prepared for the crowd, just wanted to disclose the things as Stefan requested. He said the sooner it's out the better.

The more questions others can answer the quicker I can finish the presentation. :)

Thank you again. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 06, 2010, 07:38:15 PM
It's good to always be objective at first and give the claim a chance,
so I'll wait for agent gates to mail Stefan the proof and we'll see if
Stefan gives it a thumbs up. Until then I'll be building Steorn replications.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 06, 2010, 07:51:40 PM
Jox 

What you have there came before the question I was about to ask.

Are the inside primary, outside primary and the secondary cross overs all need to be in the same dot?

up until now, I and spider assumed, as you can see our secondaries, this kind of spacing wasnt in the ingredient list. Especially when we see that 2 turn pic by tony, it doesnt seem like any spacing there and the yellow secondary setup are only separated by insulation of the wire. Unless we both missed that one and previous to our pic showings a post stated that. or it wasnt clear at the time as to this.

So at every intersection 2 primaries and 1 secondary cross, except for where there are no secondary due to tony says few sec. are needed.   
So is this to say that when a primary crosses a primary where there is no secondary intersection, there is a positive interaction of the 2 primaries in that cross even though a secondary isnt in that cross?  Do these primary only intersection points affect the primary adversly, thus causing the over heating of the fets?
I say this cuz I thought the objective is to get a positive thing going in the secondary.

A simple way to say it is do we need the excess primary crossings that dont have a secondary crossing?
Can we just have a 1 in tall tube that has 45deg primary turns that only have 1 primary to primary crossing points that are all 1/2 in up on the tube then just have 1 secondary turn crossing those dots or points?

Im just wondering if those extra primary to primary crossings that dont have a secondary crossing them are necessary.  And are they a hindrance?  Or do those extra P2P points still affect a secondary winding that is not even near that lone P2P point.

I see Jox is making good use of all of those points, and I give him daps for that line of thinking. Good work there! =]

Magluvin

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 06, 2010, 08:27:11 PM

Step 3......redo the secondary coil ;)



Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 06, 2010, 08:36:43 PM
Looks good Spider!  I just wish you would have wound the primary with smaller mm wire, as Tony suggested.  Larger wire on secondary makes sense. 

What diameter is your PVC form?

Kind regards,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 08:38:57 PM
@Spider

Very nice work! Give it pulse or wave and watch the output. It will be a nice dome and will be no RF noise. When you get the pulses/domes closer to each other the conception of the 3 primary coil version will be obvious. ;)

Keep on sending the results.

@Everyone
I am on the way with the 3-channeled driving circuitry with easy to buy devices. I don't want to use special parts. Also cutting the vids and keep documenting.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 06, 2010, 08:52:22 PM
Diameter is 100 mm, higth 60 mm , wire is 0,8mm both.
Sorry Bruce, had no thinner wire laying around. :)
Maybe for the next one, takes just litle time to make these things.
Next one 350 mm diameter LOL ;)


Looking forward to your vids en pics Tony.


Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: dani1 on January 06, 2010, 09:46:39 PM
Hi Toni,
Congratulations, if it is all true. Don't forget to shield everyting properly. You do not know it it is emmiting anything.
 
dani
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 06, 2010, 10:52:07 PM
@all

Did anyone tried 15 degree ?

The field cross at 90 degree , but at a angle of +/- 15 degree .

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 06, 2010, 11:27:50 PM
The coil with 6 primary. It will be 3 but I want to vary the connections to find the one that will give the best performance.

3 primary coils on.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060249.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060249.JPG)

6 primary coils on.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060250.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060250.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060251.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060251.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060252.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060252.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG) (ignore the bulb)

Scope shot, one primary coil fired. This is not the best shot as there was no pull down on the fet right now so there is oscillation behind of it. The important is the rising edge.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG)

6 coils in series as follows, equivalent to one coil of the previous designs.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060256.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060256.JPG)

Scope shot, 6 primary coil fired connected in series without load. The oscillation is disappeared.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG)

Same with load. (240V 50W halogene bulb)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060257.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060257.JPG)

The input was 17V and some mAmps (unimportant for now).

The reason of the multiple coils to fire them each other and put those peaks onto each other. The more you shoot after each other the higher it will rise as lenz-law problem is not involved.

I'm still on the driver circuitry and diagram to comply the latter. Keep on saving the photos and descriptions guys.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 06, 2010, 11:51:00 PM
Hello agentgates, Great work! :o

I think you got the pic for the scope shot confused...no scope shot
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 07, 2010, 12:04:13 AM
Here is the scopeshot:

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG

The question is, where the zero line is at and what kind of DC
level do we expect ?
Is the zero ground line where the left red maker is at ?
Is that the input current or input voltage ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 07, 2010, 12:08:12 AM
Here are a few pics:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060256.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060257.JPG

@Agentgates,
what DC level do you mean ?
The spike or the levels behind the spike ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 12:14:11 AM
@Agentgates,
what DC level do you mean ?
The spike or the levels behind the spike ?

The red line is CH1 on the screen. One unit is 50V. (See the bottom left corner)

I make another shot with peak level indication, that output looks over 50V. This device will be far better than the previous one. Thinner primary and more turnes on the secondary. One IRFP460 driving them. No significant heat.

UPDATE1

Here it is.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060258.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060258.JPG)

Lower voltage on the input side: 15V. It is unimportant as you can decrease it after you reached the necessary output. So you will give it 1V or 2V spikes when it is shooting in series and simply varying the freq and peak.

(Soon I'm bringing the vids with the driver circuitry)

UPDATE2
sorry for the bad pic number

UPDATE3
sorry again, now I really fixed the pic # after I slept a little :D And that is not an illusion there in the bottom right corner... ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 12:37:18 AM
The question is, where the zero line is at and what kind of DC
level do we expect ?
Is the zero ground line where the left red maker is at ?

Yes, the zero line is arrow on the left side. See the scope shot I recently sent. I changed the indicator on the right, so now it shows the correct value.

Is that the input current or input voltage ?

Ignore that ~11V, that is average and the off state is also calculated.

UPDATE

Appologize Gentleman. I think I must sleep a few hours as I can't keep my eyes open. I'll be bcak tomorrow.

Take care and keep saving everything and keep me up-to-date with your stories on experiments. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 07, 2010, 01:17:16 AM
Tony,

Aside from your melted IGBT's, is your current coil producing more power out on the secondary than is put into the primary? 

What is the input amps and volts, and what is the output amps and volts.  What is the load on the output?

We know that you are tired.  We look forward to seeing a circuit and video as well when you are able.  Thank you for your hard work!

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 07, 2010, 02:37:42 AM
I think tony is seeing massive heat buildup on the pn junctions and the effect of what can only be  high current of some strange kind.

Best to build one and see this for our selves.
It sure looks like there is spin happening there , harvesting it in phase will be the challenge.
I will try it with bottles as soon as i have zapped a few fets.

this is not a complicated bulid .
I remain fully optomistic




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: cristachelu on January 07, 2010, 02:50:08 AM
Sorry to interrupt you but I think the coil has to small inductance and the pulse needs to be very short to lower the switch heat.
Maybe a HV capacitor discharged through a gap in a resonant LC primary maybe...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 07, 2010, 03:17:00 AM
Sorry to interrupt you but I think the A has to small inductance and the pulse needs to be very short to lower the switch heat.
Maybe a HV capacitor discharged through a gap in a resonant LC primary maybe...

That sure would lower the component count and the pn junction  would not be able to suck the particles away.

 so a low current hv supply with a little spark gap  no oscillators at all hmm...
I imagine it would make a buzzing sound and have possibly vibration, lots to try here
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 07, 2010, 05:37:28 AM
Hi,

I had a piece of pvc pipe and some wire so I made this A in less than an hour.

Primary AWG 22
Secondary AWG 15

As you can see I did not space my secondary yet (it wasn't spaced out in his first pics I suppose that was a working model?)

I ran it with my SG and Lawton 12VDC pwm. Still waiting for optimum pulser diagrams. I can see waves in my scope on primary... you know just a shape changing pulses as you adjust frequency... nothing special. But thats all I have done so far. 12VDC bulb connected as a load stays cold.

Also I would like to mention that PVC tube is 4.5" diam and 4" higth with 0.25" walls. And unfortunately it is not perfectly round and andgle apppears to be some 50-60 degrees. 

Regards Minde

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 07, 2010, 07:24:14 AM
The segments of wire on the outside of the cylinder are helical, while the inside segments are straight.  The attached plots depict the difference.  The outside wires hug the surface of the cylinder, whereas the inside wires conform to the surface of a hyperboloid of revolution.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 07, 2010, 08:38:24 AM
With 15 AWG 12 turn secondary.

M
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 07, 2010, 09:45:07 AM
Minde4000
If being neat and looking good makes them work that beauty should power your whole block
Beautifull !!
Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 09:49:12 AM
Aside from your melted IGBT's, is your current coil producing more power out on the secondary than is put into the primary? What is the load on the output?

Yes, far more than I could supply with the PSU. Please see the last scope shot with the 240V/50W bulb on it. (125ohm DC resistance)

What is the input amps and volts, and what is the output amps and volts.

Input: 15V/ ~1A (ignore the relatively high amp as it is a single shot, FET fired by hand. It will significantly drop when the accelerator circuitry is done and will continously run)

Output: 126V with the mentioned load.

More info on the recent design

When I don't do the full circle with one shot (split the coil to 6 equal parts) you will see the oscillation behind the peak I showed:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG)

And after put them in series back to the original design (equal to 1 primary coil):
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG)

So I increased the tube diameter on the next one (larger acrylic) to make more room between the primary windings for the 2 more primary coil. (BTW, acrylic materials arrived for Stefan's coil so I start to build it on his coil and finally send it to him ASAP to make everybody feel better :) )

@minde4000

Your secondary is not good with 3 turns. That never lighted bulb for me and will never do that. I presented that with the 2.2 ohm resistor on the power drop.

That coil is here and I used another similar design in 2 stages to boost the output:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070264.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070264.JPG)

In other words there was 2 TPU driving each other and 1kV/3A bridge rectifier after every stages and resonant inductors  + foil cap after the last stage. It was driven by IGBT and was lasted 30 sec before the black plastic started to melt on the edge. (I didn't post that pic with the completed secondary, so sorry)

On the new design there is no inductor, foil cap, rectifier, nothing. Only the bulb and the scope.

So wind it as it was mentioned above. BTW that is a nice primary on the photo. (you really need the IGBT to fire that thick copper as it is not a current device, it is a voltage device!)

@zerotensor
WOW! Beautiful work. May I use them later on presentations? :)

@Mannix
Yes the junction problem will be solved on the next design (I hope I can buy a thinner copper) and I'm not looking to use IGBT or FET on the final design as the power consumption does not require. I'll solve it by even thinner primary (hairline) and use tiny transistors. It seems the thinner primary reduces the heat problem and more goes to the secondary. We'll see when the new 3CH design and the circuit is done.

More in a couple of hours.

UPDATE1

For calculating tube length to the 45 degrees:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/formula.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/formula.JPG)

UPDATE2
@minde4000

Yes, that is nice now. Drive it and let us see a scopeshot. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 07, 2010, 10:08:27 AM
@agentgates:
Now I am a bit confused about your comments on the secondary winding of Minde's last coil.
To me it looks very simular to the one you showed here: http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG and here: http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060251.JPG

Apart from the primary windings, what is the difference on these secondary windings that makes Minde's not suitable?

[update] Comments are corrected meanwhile by agentgates. Ignore above remark on confusion.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: leo48 on January 07, 2010, 10:15:30 AM
Good mornig to all
Excuse me but how often should it work?
leo48
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 10:16:26 AM
Now I am a bit confused about your comments on the secondary winding of Minde's last coil.
To me it looks very simular to the one you showed here: http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG

Apart from the primary windings, what is the difference on these secondary windings that makes Minde's not suitable?

No that was written for his previous one. I was typing that post before he sent the new pic. (I will correct it)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 10:17:57 AM
Good mornig to all
Excuse me but how often should it work?
leo48

No problem. As often the user will require.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 10:40:39 AM
@minde4000 and everybody

Forgot to tell: don't use flyback diode if you don't want your PSU get killed. Especially with those thick primary wires.

New info

Thick wires absorve more performance, thin wires don't. Use thinner wires and try it without FETs, like NPN transistors as the input current is not high.

UPDATE
So again, this is a voltage device, no need high current get it run.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
I tried to post this yesterday:

The LC tank on the primary idea is indeed worth a try. If the coil accelerates the electrons then each cycle the tank voltage rises instead of dampening right? This could then be fully isolated from the outside, all it would need is a starting pulse and it would run off, probably some safety measures should be taken not to over charge the high voltage capacitor.

Does this sound sane?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: darkspeed on January 07, 2010, 11:04:50 AM
Very Interesting stuff!

Weigh your two coils I think you will find the mass needs to be equal for best results.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 07, 2010, 11:15:41 AM
Quote from: agentgates link=topic=8586.msg220192#msg220192 =1262854152
@zerotensor
WOW! Beautiful work. May I use them later on presentations? :)
Thanks.  Sure, you can use these images however you like.  I can also provide you with customized plots -- The code I wrote to generate these graphics is fairly generalized, so given a diameter, height, offset angle, and number of turns, I can render the corresponding coil image in just about any format and size.  PM me if you want an image for a specific config.  I didn't model the thickness of the cylinder on these, but I could easily do that if need-be.

My motivation in working-out the mathematical parameterization of the wire segments was that it will be useful for modelling the magnetic field produced by the coil.

Just for kicks, I made an animation where the offset angle is varied.  Check it out:
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 11:29:14 AM
Hello broli,

Yes the LC sounds good to try but presently I am on that to remove as many parts I can. When I finished with those modifications that I have imagined it will be not necessary, but if the heating problem remains we will certainly address to this one. Until then I don't want to add new components to the design.

Thanks for the suggestion. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 11:30:35 AM
@zerotensor

WOW, amazing! :) We'll get back to this subject, thanks for the help. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 07, 2010, 11:42:30 AM
Hello All,
                @any....so by adding 2 more primaries to make 3 total would be (36x3)= 108 slots  thereby giving you 3.33 degrees of separation? does that sound right?..i'm on the edge of my seat over here.
                                                                             Very nice work All!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 11:53:29 AM
Hello All,
                @any....so by adding 2 more primaries to make 3 total would be (36x3)= 108 slots  thereby giving you 3.33 degrees of separation? does that sound right?..i'm on the edge of my seat over here.
                                                                             Very nice work All!

Hi ketone,

Yes that is correct! Use as thin wire is possible (hairline) and stay at the 45 degrees. Try to avoid any heavy circuitries and go for low current and higher voltage on the driving side. Mind the spaces between the primary wires, min. 1mm.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: callanan on January 07, 2010, 12:12:39 PM
Hi ketone,

Yes that is correct! Use as thin wire is possible (hairline) and stay at the 45 degrees. Try to avoid any heavy circuitries and go for low current and higher voltage on the driving side. Mind the spaces between the primary wires, min. 1mm.

Hi agentgates,

Forgive me if this has already been asked or mentioned, but what if you wind your thin wire primary 45 degree winding on top of the thick wire secondary coil?

The reason I ask this is because such a design is very similar to the work and claims of Stan Deyo who claims to have worked on and seen various antigravity technologies. This design particularly related to the electromagnetic version of this technology.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/antigravity_deyo.pdf

I have videos (on VHS) of Stan Deyo's early (more than 20 years ago) lectures where he clearly describes toroid coils wound on top of normal coils. For some reason, all of his latest stuff leaves out the normal coil inside the toroid coil... Or perhaps the normal coil was always meant to be wound on top of the toroid coil as you have discovered...

Regards,

Ossie

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 12:22:12 PM
@callanan

Hi Ossie,

I know Deyos works and I veryfied them. Unfortunatelly didn't work. It doesn't mean that he was wrong, maybe it is just me. But after learning what I'm doing here hopefully I'll make better and lighter antigravity device he had. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 12:24:08 PM
@Everybody

IMPORTANT: you can vary the pulse delay with the spaces between primary coils but don't get them too close to touch each other to save on the input current. The less effort on the input current gives the best performance which also indicates if your device is running optimal.

UPDATE

Or pulse length? I don't know... I have to keep a break and eat something. :(
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 07, 2010, 12:42:35 PM
Hello all,

@agentgates

a question if you allow: how many frequencies do you use?

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: eastcoastwilly on January 07, 2010, 12:54:39 PM
Hello All,
                @any....so by adding 2 more primaries to make 3 total would be (36x3)= 108 slots  thereby giving you 3.33 degrees of separation? does that sound right?..i'm on the edge of my seat over here.
                                                                             Very nice work All!


"If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe." :

Nikola Tesla



From the "The Inner World of Jimi Hendrix" by Monika
Dannermann ISBN 0-312-137-389


"But like the solar system is going through a change soon and is going to affect the Earth in about 30 years, you know; I am talking about the Earth itself." (San Diego Free Press, June 1969)

In the last days of his life, Jimi told me about a strong belief that he held, and took a writing pad, to illustrate more clearly what he meant.

Before going into the subject, he talked for a while about a song he had written called "If Six Was Nine". He told me that there was a cosmic meaning to that song, hidden in the two numbers six and nine. Jimi said that these numbers together are a very powerful force, and he drew thern within each other. It looked like a spiral when he added more rays, the individual rays as well as the whole form spinning to the right. He said the sign with nine rays in it is the symbol of a very high spiritual power which is coming towards the earth.

He was convinced that, in the near future, Galacticans from outer space, from another galaxy of great positive power, would come to our planet to help mankind in its struggle againt evil. While explaining this, he drew two points representing this higher power coming closer and closer towards our galaxy, the Milky Way, finally reaching Earth.

Jimi then made another sketch with four spiral rays pointing leftwards, telling me that this symbol is a negative one, because its rays point to the left.

He told me that the arrival of the positive power would bring about a great change on our planet. Love, peace and brotherhood among the peoples on Earth would start to blossom again, just as they in the ancient civilization of Atlantis. He said that the signs of the beginning of these events would be when significant unexpected changes started to happen in the world. But he also pointed out that we, the people, would also have to become active and anticipate bringing about these positive changes for ourselves and our world. He explained that people on Earth have been asleep for too long and an awakening is beginning to happen to the people as this higher power approaches our world.

This prophecy of Jimi's was an inspiration for this painting. A spacecraft, one of many to follow, is approaching our galaxy, its destination planet Earth.

Jimi also refers to this event in his last poem, "The Story of Life":

Angels of heaven

Flying saucers to some

Made Easter Sunday

The name of the rising sun.

The name of the rising sun.


Wow what a coincidence... ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 12:59:31 PM
Hello all,

@agentgates

a question if you allow: how many frequencies do you use?

Otto

Hi Otto,

Only one. And looking to use a 4017 to fire them after each other as there are large gaps between the pulses coming out. There is room for about 2 more spikes between them to fill the gap, but perhaps better the 3. That is why I had to increae the diameter to make room for the additional channels. If they are too close the output will be noisy and the will not be optimal.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 07, 2010, 01:10:55 PM
just a quick one,

Steven said that ss units must be located  in the middle of the coil.. worth a quick try tony
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 01:30:20 PM
"If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe." :

Nikola Tesla

Yes indeed. Take a look at my designs. :) You will see all these numbers there. Stefan's first coil 9 turns per circle and the other ones are 6. Triangular winding 3. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 01:34:29 PM
@agentgates:

Are you still working on those videos? I know things are a bit hectic now but it sure would be nice to see it in action.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 01:35:49 PM
just a quick one,

Steven said that ss units must be located  in the middle of the coil.. worth a quick try tony

Thank you, I'll certainly try this, however I don't know the reason. :)

UPDATE

Ok, I've got it now. :)

I think he experienced some electrostatic discharges around the torroids so he put them in the middle to protect the ICs.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 07, 2010, 01:47:07 PM
Otto
I 'Know' Tony said no specific frequency
Works all over ,but reccomended between 8-100hz so as not to broadcast
Its in first few posts by Tony

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 07, 2010, 01:51:08 PM
Hi Tony,

Thank you for answering everyones questions.  But, I am not clear on mine.  You gave the output voltage, but not the output amps when answering my question.  If you could clarify what the output amps were, that would be great.  There are concerns that this may simply transforming the power into high voltage, that is why amp readings are needed.

A circuit, even roughly drawn would also be great, posted.  This is day 2 and still no circuit.  Even if it is the one you started with.  We know you are working hard on simplifying the electronics, which we are grateful for, but we would like to peek at the other circuits you have used to make it work.  Just draw it and take a picture if you need to save time.

Lastly, a video, showing power in, volts and amps and power out, showing volts and amps would also be wonderful.  Do this, and the replications will be flying.  Thank you!!

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
Otto
I 'Know' Tony said no specific frequency
Works all over ,but reccomended between 8-100hz so as not to broadcast
Its in first few posts by Tony

Chet

I think I said 100Hz as lowest, but anyway, should work with 8Hz but will cook a bit on the coil if you go for it with high current.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 07, 2010, 01:57:19 PM

Did a quick test, no OU yet :)
Inductive coupling lights both lamps, but not more out then in.

I agree with bruce tony, its time for some facts now.


Spider.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: IWD on January 07, 2010, 02:02:36 PM
Hi agentgates

you work is looking very good, but ....on you pictures are still only BEMF, pls give to us some videos you already promis. And..

To you first version... the current reading from the display can be misguided, because is operating in the square wave, and you can have let say... 20A spikes on the primary which warm up the tranzistors of course, even with 3A source as you show. Because in source of that types are smoothing capacitors, which are able do delivery that current, depending of their capacity of course, and the impedance of the priamry, which are very smal in the case of zig zag winding. So ..disruptiv discharge occurs, and that can have some benefits, as tesla already found. You can connect a smal resistor in serie of primary and measure by scope the real current passing thru.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 02:12:22 PM
Hi Tony,

Thank you for answering everyones questions.  But, I am not clear on mine.  You gave the output voltage, but not the output amps when answering my question.  If you could clarify what the output amps were, that would be great.  There are concerns that this may simply transforming the power into high voltage, that is why amp readings are needed.

A circuit, even roughly drawn would also be great, posted.  This is day 2 and still no circuit.  Even if it is the one you started with.  We know you are working hard on simplifying the electronics, which we are grateful for, but we would like to peek at the other circuits you have used to make it work.  Just draw it and take a picture if you need to save time.

Lastly, a video, showing power in, volts and amps and power out, showing volts and amps would also be wonderful.  Do this, and the replications will be flying.  Thank you!!

Cheers,

Bruce

1. I am too busy to argue.
2. I can't remember deadline.
3. I am not releasing demos of overheating devices, I am not SM.
4. I am not your employee, so please wait for your turn.
5. No current measurement until the 3 or 4 channels is not wound and driven. Reason --> there is no point. (you didn't understand the concept)
6. Again --> that is O.N.E. spike. Multiple spikes will be shorter.
7. That is what I am doing now.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 07, 2010, 02:46:47 PM
Tony
I know these kind of things worried you [strong personalities]
Fact is your the Boss.
And we all appreciate [understatement] what you are doing.
No body has ever done this before at OU [except to play a joke]

Chet

Patience is a virtue
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 03:27:47 PM
Had a weird thought, wouldnt a twisted pair be like a continuous DOT? 
Always thinking

Nice graphs zero.  This is an example of some questions I have.  Im assuming the theory is the event happens at the crossings and the spaces help prevent dot interactions, not as a transformer interaction as a whole. Otherwise spacing would not be necessary.

That is why the question of the proximity of inner primary to the secondary as to the outer primary to the secondary. If the suspended webbing inside furthers the distance from the secondary, that makes a significant difference of how those inner webs have effort on their crossings compared to the outer primary that is actually touching the secondary.
This is why those graphs are sweet in visualizing that and the many differences there can be.
If the inner primary needs to be "touching" the secondary as is the outer primary, then the webbing and tube thickness is a hindrance to the effect. 
On the other hand, if the inner primary actually touching the secondary proves no effect, then I would assume the inner is canceling the outer and tighter vortex webbing is necessary as to only allow the outer primary to be in physical contact with the secondary.

This brings me to another conclusion. Consider the magnetic spin around the primary as a disk on each primary at the crossing. Each disk will be cutting the other primary wire lengthwise as to split the wire in two, just to visualize, now visualize how those disks cut the secondary, all of this at a common crossing. If the effect is as told to us, then those inner primaries need to be in physical connection, as in touching not conducting, in order equal affect on the secondary by both the inner and outer primaries.

As to how to get this optimum contact, the primaries, inner and outer need bothe be zig zagged outside the tube so their crossings are tight. Using pins as we use the cuts to pivot each zag. This way we get all 3, the inner P the outer P and the secondary DOTs all connected physically for optimum effect as a 3 way combo, at every dot.

And as vision continues, if even spacing is a key here, imagine one square space as seen in these latest pics, and apply that spacing also between each layer of windig as to spac out the inner then secondary, then the outer and when done the inner dia will be like 3/4 in less that the outer.  Like if you have a 4 in pvc tube 1/4 in wall, then have another 1/4 in wall tube that fitts inside the 4 in. with just enough space to wrap a secondary. Then wrap the secondary to the smaller tube, slid into the outer tube, then wrap the primary around the 2 tubes as a whole.  Imagine the electron tornados that would exist inside.

Andey Callanan    that Deyo  toroid looks a lot like what I thought about and described earlier Thanks for that link by the way.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 03:45:26 PM
Just as a reminder when this starts to grow online it's best to not reference it to Steven Mark or the name TPU. Nothing good will come from that. Once put public on youtube or any other place it will be part of the public domain and there will be nothing to patent.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 07, 2010, 03:53:42 PM
Broli
Quote:
 Once put public on youtube
 or any other place it will be part of the public domain and there will be nothing to patent.
---------------------------------------
Thats the whole idea!!

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 07, 2010, 04:00:59 PM
People! please stop the questions to give agentgates some time to experiment and perfect his device. It's easy to tell that he is not yet satisfied with his device and wants to make improvements.

The device is so simple that a circuit diagram is not needed. The primary is wound first with hair thin wire on a 45 degree angle with a minimum space of 1mm between windings. The secondary is wound over the primary with thick wire 3 turns spaced out.

Pulse the primary with a DC power supply and attach a load to the secondary. If you don't understand these instructions and need a circuit diagram then you should not be building the device at this time and wait till things are more completed.

Thanks for understanding

Luc



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 07, 2010, 04:08:52 PM
Good points Luc & Broli.

He has mentioned CHANNELS several times.  As can be seen in the photo below, there are SEVERAL windings shown, & I see 8 DIFFERENT WIRES hanging out of it.

That seems to imply that each winding gets connected to something different.  That is where many of us are confused.

Cheers.

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 07, 2010, 04:25:07 PM
I think :-\ this is something he is experimenting (development) with and not what he has recommended for testing the effect.

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: leo48 on January 07, 2010, 04:31:10 PM
This is my version of the ring, the primary has 25 turns of 0.3 mm and 0.8 mm from the secondary 16 turns I can make an electronic file for pulses.
leo48
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 07, 2010, 05:03:13 PM
Magluvin, you just saved me at least 1/2 hour of typing to explain what I was thinking. We are on the same wavelength !

The main question is: Should the secondary ideally be enclosed inside the 3 primaries, which implies that the inner and outer parts of primaries are NOT touching each other, OR:
The primaries are wound totally on the outside of the tube, which creates a flat cylindrical mesh, and then the secondary is placed against it.

Cheers

altair


Had a weird thought, wouldnt a twisted pair be like a continuous DOT? 
Always thinking

Nice graphs zero.  This is an example of some questions I have.  Im assuming the theory is the event happens at the crossings and the spaces help prevent dot interactions, not as a transformer interaction as a whole. Otherwise spacing would not be necessary.

That is why the question of the proximity of inner primary to the secondary as to the outer primary to the secondary. If the suspended webbing inside furthers the distance from the secondary, that makes a significant difference of how those inner webs have effort on their crossings compared to the outer primary that is actually touching the secondary.
This is why those graphs are sweet in visualizing that and the many differences there can be.
If the inner primary needs to be "touching" the secondary as is the outer primary, then the webbing and tube thickness is a hindrance to the effect. 
On the other hand, if the inner primary actually touching the secondary proves no effect, then I would assume the inner is canceling the outer and tighter vortex webbing is necessary as to only allow the outer primary to be in physical contact with the secondary.

This brings me to another conclusion. Consider the magnetic spin around the primary as a disk on each primary at the crossing. Each disk will be cutting the other primary wire lengthwise as to split the wire in two, just to visualize, now visualize how those disks cut the secondary, all of this at a common crossing. If the effect is as told to us, then those inner primaries need to be in physical connection, as in touching not conducting, in order equal affect on the secondary by both the inner and outer primaries.

As to how to get this optimum contact, the primaries, inner and outer need bothe be zig zagged outside the tube so their crossings are tight. Using pins as we use the cuts to pivot each zag. This way we get all 3, the inner P the outer P and the secondary DOTs all connected physically for optimum effect as a 3 way combo, at every dot.

And as vision continues, if even spacing is a key here, imagine one square space as seen in these latest pics, and apply that spacing also between each layer of windig as to spac out the inner then secondary, then the outer and when done the inner dia will be like 3/4 in less that the outer.  Like if you have a 4 in pvc tube 1/4 in wall, then have another 1/4 in wall tube that fitts inside the 4 in. with just enough space to wrap a secondary. Then wrap the secondary to the smaller tube, slid into the outer tube, then wrap the primary around the 2 tubes as a whole.  Imagine the electron tornados that would exist inside.

Andey Callanan    that Deyo  toroid looks a lot like what I thought about and described earlier Thanks for that link by the way.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 07, 2010, 05:09:20 PM
Tony, Just keep on Keeping on, we appreciate your contribution and want to help move this forward for you. Even if the results of the design is not what yo expect we all learn something right? I see this as progress no matter what as I am sure others do as well.

What might be, and I stress "might", required is a review of how you are releasing the info and your test results. I am not criticizing how you are doing anything but making suggestions. Perhaps take a week to finish some of your work and gather your thoughts and data and then present that to the community. I understand you want to share but I believe some project management is needed to reduce your stress and make more progress.

If others want to contribute that is great and should be encouraged but it needs to be explained that your time is valuable too and you have to focus on your work as well. Please do not get caught up in the noise here on the forum and let it discourage you.

Please consider;

1. weekly updates, set a release schedule and try to adhere to it
2. set a day and/or time to be on the forum to answer questions for those who are replicating and to support discussion of ways to improve or further
3. providing schematics and videos (when possible) to assist those who are trying to support your efforts
4. ignoring the noise and negative comments when possible, there will be those that will try and derail you due to various reasons.

Again these are suggestions Tony and please accept them as such. I am not trying to tell you what to do but provide some support.

Thanks for your efforts thus far,

Carl
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 05:21:05 PM
Tony, Just keep on Keeping on, we appreciate your contribution and want to help move this forward for you. Even if the results of the design is not what yo expect we all learn something right? I see this as progress no matter what as I am sure others do as well.

What might be, and I stress "might", required is a review of how you are releasing the info and your test results. I am not criticizing how you are doing anything but making suggestions. Perhaps take a week to finish some of your work and gather your thoughts and data and then present that to the community. I understand you want to share but I believe some project management is needed to reduce your stress and make more progress.

If others want to contribute that is great and should be encouraged but it needs to be explained that your time is valuable too and you have to focus on your work as well. Please do not get caught up in the noise here on the forum and let it discourage you.

Please consider;

1. weekly updates, set a release schedule and try to adhere to it
2. set a day and/or time to be on the forum to answer questions for those who are replicating and to support discussion of ways to improve or further
3. providing schematics and videos (when possible) to assist those who are trying to support your efforts
4. ignoring the noise and negative comments when possible, there will be those that will try and derail you due to various reasons.

Again these are suggestions Tony and please accept them as such. I am not trying to tell you what to do but provide some support.

Thanks for your efforts thus far,

Carl

I actually agree with this. It's best to first compile a complete instruction set or presentation with all the needed documents before starting to discuss what everyone did wrong in their quick replications. You could then just inform the forum about your progress of this. After that is all done we can start discussing theory, replications, improvements and so on.

Btw if you need any 3d animation work give me a headsup, I can help.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 07, 2010, 05:40:03 PM
1. I am too busy to argue.
2. I can't remember deadline.
3. I am not releasing demos of overheating devices, I am not SM.
4. I am not your employee, so please wait for your turn.
5. No current measurement until the 3 or 4 channels is not wound and driven. Reason --> there is no point. (you didn't understand the concept)
6. Again --> that is O.N.E. spike. Multiple spikes will be shorter.
7. That is what I am doing now.

Wow, not the reply I was hoping for...or deserved.  LOL

1.  Great, because there is nothing to argue about.  You claim OU and I simply asked for the output amps.  A reasonable request.  But now no current reading until your new 3 channel coil is done... hmm, ok. 

2.  No deadline.  Just thought a circuit would be helpful because some have tried this and seen nothing.  So perhaps they are not pulsing correctly.

3.  You stated yesterday that you were going to make a vid and post a circuit.  Then said you were tired but would post it today.  No prob.  We are just anxious to see what you have.

Lastly I apologize that asking my questions equated to "being my employee," in your thinking.  The questions are not meant in that tone, simply meant to clarify things. 

Relax Tony, and take a deep breath, it is all good!   ;)  It is a New Year, and we hope, a GREAT year!!  My motto is what Reagan told Gorbachev, "trust but verify."

Kind regards,

Bruce

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2010, 05:44:39 PM
IF i may so kindly ask the inventor here a simple question . I realize there is a circuit you are or have experimented with that you say it not easy to duplicate and you are trying to make an "easier"one for us . Can you be so kind as to post the Hard circuit so i can blow up some fet s with 0.011 ma @ 35 volts ? I got plenty of parts so i can follow along with you .In the Meantime I am your competitor in the Ou race and have posted all my primary circuits and test and of coarse we are in the Final testing stages for a few months until Me and one other person are satisfied  with the results at which time Stephan will also have the opportunity to see a Video and get his Device for inspection . Surely a device of your nature can demonstrate a measly 1 watt out  to win the contest and it's nice that you are Scaling it up but really all that is needed is 1 watt continuious output with self running .
kind regards

Gadget
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 07, 2010, 05:56:27 PM
@Spider

What are you driving your coil with? At least you have your bulbs lit.... I got nothing :)

@All

I guess I got nothing because I dont have a driver required  for it... no igbt handy... only mosfets and hexfets.

Lawton pulser aint suitable for this.. SG is out of the question.. any suggestions?

Thank You

M
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 06:04:16 PM
Thanks Altair

An important clue and maybe fact is,  how the imagined spinning disks from the inner and outer primaries cut the secondary. Depending on what side secondary is to the primary, the secondary will see something different from 1 side to the other, especially at the angles we have laid out here. So if Stephans sample does not work because the secondary is inside, then the outside is where it should be. I hope.

I bet that some length of wire set up on a jig to allow different angle crossings and multiple primary above and below configs, all done at just 1 single cross point, some sensitive equipment could be used to determining if the effect is real and simplify angle and position that works best then put it to coil form.
I actually think it can be made like a woven screen and flat, if what we are concerned with are the crossings.

Just an idea for further analysis.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mflynn44 on January 07, 2010, 07:02:32 PM
Try a neon sign transformer with a spark gap.



@Spider

What are you driving your A with? At least you have your bulbs lit.... I got nothing :)

@All

I guess I got nothing because I dont have a driver required  for it... no igbt handy... only mosfets and hexfets.

Lawton pulser aint suitable for this.. SG is out of the question.. any suggestions?

Thank You

M
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 07, 2010, 07:08:21 PM
@Everybody

3-primary-channel coils are done, secondary is coming soon after the . If it's possible avoid using clear acrylic with the 3 primary as you will get mixed up by the transparent surface and you'll see a cobweb everywhere. I had to rewind it 3 times as I screwd up.  :-\

gotoluc, broli thanks for understanding me in 100% and helping me out. Indeed I don't want anybody to patent it and sit on this wondeful piece of technology for another few decades and I also agree with Stefan the best if I start disclosing everything. Everyone in this topic is also a withness that nobody has right to take it away from the people.

As for the OU price I am not really look into win just try it if possible and wanted to make sure whether should I bring this one in priority or do my other projects. Thanks for understanding now.


REQUEST TO A KIND VOLUNTEER

4017 is in its place, 3 channel will fire after each other over and over again. My request would be somebody who has a few minutes could please make a schematic with a 4017 decade counter driving 3x BC337 calculated resistors hooked to the primary channels? The inductance is around 100uH if I read it right (fluctuating).

Until epoxy is bonding I would have a few hours nap as my brain is getting to shut down.

I'll be back soon. Many thanks in advance to All.

PS: Bruce, don't worry, no prob. just please be a little patient. THX ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 07, 2010, 07:29:23 PM
@mflynn44

Thanks for ideas. I tought about this myself - I figured it might start sparking and destroy my toy before I had a chance to play with it.
The lowest spark gap voltage I could feed is 2500V .. I recon thats an overkill..

I need a pulse driver...

M
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: neptune on January 07, 2010, 07:35:31 PM
Just my take on what is meant by 3 channels. What is proposed as I understand it , is to have 3 primary windings and one secondary winding on the coil . Each primary is pulsed in turn , by its own semiconductor device . these are driven by a suitable pulse circuit , pulsing each in turn . I hope this is correct and helps.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PaulLowrance on January 07, 2010, 07:39:07 PM
Stefan,

This post was moved into the OverUnity Prize folder for a reason because he was going to mail you the device. Is there a planned date that will happen? It's a little strange how people right from the start were encouraging others to send agent gates money.

I think people are beggining to see what's happening to the "free energy" community. Now I'll go back to Steorn replication research.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 07:43:29 PM
This is what maybe he is doing.  Making a complete circuit that doesnt require signal generators or any other expensive equip and make it a nice lil radioshack parts build with a battery and a light bulb. home recipe.
555 pie  4017 cookies  and an energy shake!   =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 07, 2010, 07:56:03 PM
To make it as symetrical as possible, I think he wants to Fire FET 1 from the 4017 3 Output, FET 2 from the 6 Output, & Fire FET 3 with the 9 Output.

Here is the URL for the CD4093 Schmitt Trigger:

http://www.national.com/ds/CD/CD4093BC.pdf

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2010, 08:09:29 PM
There is no circuit just a coil configuration and how it is wound.

Input low voltage low amps (mA) he is using 31vdc @ .09A (90mA) and getting over 1KW out

Current issue is the BEMF (or ???) to the input drivers which causes failure due to over voltage/curent. Read the thread for more on this.
ISNT 0.09v      9 100ths of an amp ? if  1.00= 1amp . and 1.10 is 1amp and 10 ma then 1.01 is one amp and 1 microamp not milli  ,correct ?
gadget
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 08:11:08 PM
So the decade counter can drive the mosfets no? It mus be at supply voltage levels on those outputs.

And probably a descent dvm with hz setting isnt that expensive. And a pc scope. simple and wont break the bank for most.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 07, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
@Gadgetmall

                  1 amp = 1.00
                  1/10 amp = .1
                   1/100 amp = .01
                    1 milliamp = .001


                 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Spider on January 07, 2010, 08:24:13 PM
Way back I uploaded this video:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=149

Maybe I should fire that through the coil....4000V 200Watt.....but i am afraid my house will blow up LOL

I have 3 of those, so maybe in phase.. 1 2 3

Back for more

Spider
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 08:33:00 PM
Tony,

Attached is my proposed 4017 circuit.

The Eagle CAD design files are attached as a compressed rar file.
(Eagle CAD can be downloaded for free at www.Cadsoft.de )

Edit: There was a small error in the PCB so I uploaded the new files.
EDIT: New changes based on recommendations from Tony.

Regards,
Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 08:35:13 PM
Looks like GL-man heard the cry of help...silent, fast, deadly. Good job man, you're as reliable as ever this is why I like this forum.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 08:48:46 PM
@broli,

LOL

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MrMag on January 07, 2010, 08:49:19 PM
Hahaha, you can tell Groundloop has done this before. :) Another great job.

I do have a question. If you plan on firing these 3 coils in sequence, why no just hook them in series??
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 07, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
@all

Why not a simple joule thief circuit , 2 primary ...

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
@MrMag,

I think this circuit is what Tony asked for.

Firing the three coils one after each other.
You can't do that with a one transistor JT.
And you can't do that with the coils in series.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2010, 09:04:13 PM
@Gadgetmall

                  1 amp = 1.00
                  1/10 amp = .1
                   1/100 amp = .01
                    1 milliamp = .001


                 
hehe . right . where am i ? Ok so .09 is  9 ma correct ? IF 1.000 scale

 NICE boards Alex ! Another Project!! .

Albert
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 07, 2010, 09:11:27 PM
@Gadget
I am not sure if you are joking or serious, but:

0.009A = 9 mA
0.09A = 90 mA   ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 09:15:19 PM
Albert,

If two other people at this forum can confirm over unity in this system,
then I will make PCBs for this, else not. I guess I will wait for confirmation
of ou before spending money and time on this. I can add that my first
coil test gave me 14 Watt out with 38 Watt input. So there IS an effect
going on but if it is ou remains to see.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2010, 09:16:20 PM
@Gadget
I am not sure if you are joking or serious, but:

0.009A = 9 mA
0.09A = 90 mA   ;)
:) forgot the 0 :) Look 35 years of electronics  at least 100 shocks from 110 and 20 from 220 mains and a brain stroke 4 years ago . I'm bound to lose it  sooner  than later .  ;D

thanks

Albert
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MrMag on January 07, 2010, 09:16:51 PM
@MrMag,

I think this circuit is what Tony asked for.

Firing the three coils one after each other.
You can't do that with a one transistor JT.
And you can't do that with the coils in series.

Alex.

Thanx Alex,

I didn't mention jt? I think it was someone else.
So, he wants to fire them sequentially, timed, not necessarily in series. gotcha.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: darkspeed on January 07, 2010, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: Groundloop link=topic=8586.msg220357#msg220357 =1262895319
Albert,

If two other people at this forum can confirm over unity in this system,
then I will make PCBs for this, else not. I guess I will wait for confirmation
of ou before spending money and time on this. I can add that my first
coil test gave me 14 Watt out with 38 Watt input. So there IS an effect
going on but if it is ou remains to see.

Alex.

Alex, what was your amps / volts for the 14 and 38 watts??

Thanks!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2010, 09:19:41 PM
I'm in . give me a bit of time to cut some pvc . I got plenty of wire in yesterday . This looks promising does it not ! . But i really wanted to use My pulse generator with a powersupply first to see if i can smoke some fet's  :) Its tubes so i'm not worried about smoking it .

Albert
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
@darkspeed,

Input was 12 volt 3 Ampere from lead acid battery via my RA switch.
The Ampere was measured over a non inductive 0,25 Ohm 20 Watt resistor.
The output load was a 15 Watt 230VAC light bulb. Did measure 12VAC
and 1,67 Ampere. The Ampere was measured via the same type resistor
and then used Oms law to calculate current.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 09:41:29 PM
It's good to see more people are starting to become aware of this thread. If this is the real deal we might have the first replication before the end of the week. And kits very soon after, got to love the speed of the still "free" internet.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 07, 2010, 10:32:10 PM
I tried to feed 2500V pulsed DC into primary w/ spark gap then w/o spark gap w/ earth ground then w/o... 40W 120VAC bulb as a load stayed cold..

I would really like to see one in "action" on video with proper measurement techniques... (wich is struggling to materialize? makes me wonder why...) and not an LED screen of DC supply with is under inductive load... I hope I am wrong.
I will put it aside for now till someone else will have any luck with this.

Minde



 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 10:34:56 PM
Awesome Groundloop

Question, is there any time off with the decade counter? Or is there always going to be a primary on?
To further complicate things, lol I dont want to, but each output of the decade counter can have a 555 1 shot that the time ON can be adjusted. Just something to think about in case its necessary.

I made 1 test tool with 8 thin wires stretched on a long thin plexi, and the other one will be done in a bit. I want to try to understand what is happening at different angles. All the wires will be in parallel and a res in series so the input power is known and to lower the current draw. Just have a need know whats going on.

Mags

Edited for spelling and missng word.  mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 10:44:09 PM
@Magluvin,

No there is no pause between the firings. If you want a pause then use
Q0, Q2, Q4 on the 4017 to control the transistors on/off and tie Q6 to RES.
That way you get a one clock pulse pause between each firing.

It is no problem to use a one shot 555 at each output but then it will be
less expensive to just use one PIC micro controller.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 07, 2010, 10:50:18 PM
Hi Groundloop,
how did you drive your setup  with your bulb ?
Just pulsed ONE input  coil and compared output at the
output coil versus input power ?

Or did you already used 3 input coils with sequential switching ?

As I got mails telling me, that AgentGates claimed
to have a running device and does not show it,
from the start on,  I am thinking about moving this thread back into the
TPU area, until AgentGates comes forward and shows his real stuff ?

What do you all think about this ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 10:51:02 PM
Tru dat G

Thanks. Never played with the 4017   but alternating the outputs is good.  =]
Just tinkin


Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 07, 2010, 10:57:34 PM
As I got mails telling me, that AgentGates claimed
to have a running device and does not show it,

Lol. It has been only two days now and he already gave the secret sauce. And even its own development is in an early stage. Those people pming you should learn to have patience, the truth comes with time. If I'm not mistaken he's trying to put together instructions, videos, theory, the prize unit and a setup that doesn't burn in minutes. Give the guy a break and time.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: darkspeed on January 07, 2010, 10:58:50 PM
Decade or shift register ? :-\
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 11:03:07 PM
Stephan
I would leave it. lets see at least till the weekend. He seems to be working hard on it and answering long posts isnt helping.
Id give him a few.
mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 07, 2010, 11:04:58 PM
Sorry   its Stefan   not Stephan    I got it now
Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 07, 2010, 11:09:07 PM
Give Tony a break to concentrate on his work. He has hardly had any sleep while working and responding.
He's been a loyal replier to most of the remarks here.
He deserves some trust and patience.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 11:17:23 PM
Stefan,

I made one coil as shown in the images but with 1,2mm copper wire.
I then taped it and put two output coils on the outside. I then taped
the output coils. I use 1,2mm copper wire on the output coils also.
I used my Rosmary Anslie switch to pulse the input coil. Used a 0,25 Ohm
non-inductive resistor on the input coil, after the RA switch. Used a DVM
to measure voltage over resistor. Connected a 15 Watt 230VAC light bulb
to one of the output coils. Measured the voltage over the bulb with DVM.
Used the 0,25 Ohm resistor in series with bulb to find current. Used Ohms
law to calculate Watt in and Watt out.

I think that he has not yet done a proper measurement for input vs. output.
I also think that if he has something that works then he should show it.
I guess we have to wait and see what comes out of this.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 11:20:14 PM
@darkspeed,

Why the angry face? Just Google 4017 data sheet and download pdf.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 07, 2010, 11:31:40 PM
Tony made it clear that the primary winding needs to be much thinner that the secondary..

We all want to put our own take on this .I know

Its great you have seen some effect

Please replicate using the  paramaters given
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 11:39:13 PM
@Mannix,

Did not have any parameters when I made my first coil. I only had the first
text description. Later on he posted information that the primary must be
thin wire. Will follow this story closely.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 07, 2010, 11:39:36 PM
@ magluvin & groundloop,

anthony said that the pulses were supposed to be very short, probably 10% or even 1% duty cycle would be enough.
With the 4017, using outputs 0, 2 and 4 would give a duty cycle of 1/6, or 16%.
You could put 2 (or more) 4017 in series to reduce the duty cycle more.
Or you could put a small RC network in series with the outputs of the 4017 to generate short pulses at each leading edge.

@ magluvin,
yes I agree it could be woven flat.
We must also know if the secondary wires have to pass exactly right over the crossings of the primary, or if just being in the proximity is enough.
We will also have to find out what effects the form factor has on the performance; Is it better to make it long and narrow, or flat and large in diameter ?

Lots of fun coming up.

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 07, 2010, 11:45:02 PM
@altair,

You could probably spread the output even more on the 4017.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
@GL

Thanks for the circuit diagram and the quick work. :) Some comments on it:
1. Those FB diodes will be an overkill for the PSU. Remember there is no flow of holes here, only electrons from the device. This is more a particle accelerator than a transformer. This is where most of you failed in the past watching the results.
2. BC337 cooks, there is a resistor missing in series between the +18V an 0V. Can somebody pls make me a correction with additional resistors and values. My primary winding is 4.75 ohms. Sry for the request but I have many things to document here and the 4017 is messing about.

On your device:
You use HUGE wire for primary. Forget that. I used to fire half a thinner wire with 1500W of IGBTs, not BC337... :)

Please make a comparison, look at my corrected design for the new BC337 circuit you made:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG)

More photos later on the separate primary winding.

@Stefan

1. I opened the topic because you requested me to start sharing ASAP if the 1W is correct.
2. I did and now I want to make sure what you will receive is not kilos of SM-like overheating demo tool + huge heatsinks, fans, starting caps, inductor piles but a reliable lightweight swiss watch that you can take to presentations with yourself and you'll not curse my name.
3. I wasn't prepared for crowd with ready to build schematics and competition run they urged me. If I know this I wouldn't come out yet until your device is done.
4. My health doesn't serve well and I agreed with you to disclose ASAP. I want to make sure if something goes wrong with me this thing will survive.
5. I am not looking to win the price or anger anybody. I can disclose it elsewhere if it doesn't work here.

So again to all, pls everybody, patient. Not a competition.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: szaxx on January 08, 2010, 12:35:08 AM
hi all replicators,
to avoid the minute delay re 4017 resetting simply use 3 of em in a chain and get the output pulses from the carry out pin. if it is neccessary for total precision timing.
steve.   
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 12:52:56 AM
anthony said that the pulses were supposed to be very short, probably 10% or even 1% duty cycle would be enough.

Yes it is true but that was just a comment on the importance of the duty cycle. It works with 10% on all my designs, however that is the lowest edge.

The duty cycle makes difference when finally you want to lower and control the output current on the secondary to keep the voltage nearly constant. The best preformance ratio used to come on the 50% duty cycle.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 12:53:00 AM
Tony,

I did not know better at the point of coil making, so that is why the HUGE wires. LOL

Do you need one current limiting resistor at each transistor or do you need just one
resistor from the common plus point to the three coils?

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 08, 2010, 01:06:39 AM
Tony,

try high side switching!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: darkspeed on January 08, 2010, 01:10:30 AM
Quote from: Groundloop link=topic=8586.msg220389#msg220389 =1262902814
@darkspeed,

Why the angry face?  Just Google 4017 data sheet and download pdf.

.

Ha ha not angry... "Undecided face"

Just curious if a shift register would be better than the decade counter for this..
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 01:17:46 AM
I did not know better at the point of coil making, so that is why the HUGE wires. LOL

Happens. :D

Do you need one current limiting resistor at each transistor or do you need just one resistor from the common plus point to the three coils?

Lets try it pls with 3 for now. :)

@All

You guys stay with the 4017 I move back to my pattern generator. That can give even overlapping outputs. I have forgotten the 4017 will make 1/3 output pulse. But don't worry about that I will adjust the final design.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 01:20:10 AM
try high side switching!

Yes, thanks. Would be better. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 01:22:36 AM
Tony,

I have updated the drawing back on page 11 post 159.
One resistor for each coil. The current limit is set to 100mA
for each transistor.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 01:50:33 AM
Tony,

I have updated the drawing back on page 11 post 159.
One resistor for each coil. The current limit is set to 100mA
for each transistor.

Alex.

Thank you I am going to look into it.

Temporarily I moved back to my pattern generator and found some FET drivers in my drawer to fire the coils with them directly (no FETs). However they are inverting ones I will make another inversion on the pattern coming out the generator.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 08, 2010, 02:15:00 AM
This bot and his subliminal WoW advertising has to go Stefan;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=22066
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 03:00:38 AM
Alex, I've got BC337-16 and BC337-40. Are you sure in the 100mA? They don't switch in my configuration.  :)

Input is 3.5 on the base. (I know you calculated that for the 4017)

Anyway, ignore it. Just mentioned, I'll fix it tomorrow. Take your time with your coil and many thanks for your kind help. :)

I have another short nap, back in a few hours after rebooting my head.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on January 08, 2010, 03:13:58 AM
There may be an issue with the thickness of the material used as the primary support. Also changing to the 45 degree angle may also have an adverse effect. All of these changes from the original build that was used to advise @stefan of the initial results and the reason for this thread are slowly being shoved to the wayside. Be careful to not lose this first build PLEASE.

I suggest that the first build that was used to provide performance results be kept intact and this is the one to follow.

For the purposes of this discussion, I will use the terms;

PWO = Primary wind that is on the outside of the core material.
PWI = Primary wind that is on the inside of the core material.

The outer secondary is like a stator coil. The primary is like a rotor.
As the impulse goes up the PWO, this is the closest side to the secondary, but since the core is non-magnetic, it is totally transparent so as the pulse then enters the PWI, it still has an effect on the secondary but at a lower level. This up PWO, down PWI of the pulse creates a stronger and weaker force over the secondary and would be a very desirable effect to preserve. But the more the core material is thick, the weaker the PWI will be to the point that it can do no effect to the secondary and you will loose the PWO/PWI interplay. So thickness of the core should be as thin as possible.

Now the 45 degree thingy. This also may play for or against. I do not think @agentgates had enough time to really ponder this question before jumping onto the 45 degree bandwagon, so again we have to be very careful here and not try to dilute the initial effect which is the initial or original reason @agentgates contacted @stefan.

Now also doing multi-wrap primaries is again an offshoot of the original method and I again suggest to stick to the original.

Here is the problem going on. @agentgates has an original build that he contacted @stefan about to explain the great or out of the ordinary results. But from that point on we are now on this whole shebang changing so many aspects of the original that we do not know where the hell we are anymore and this is dangerous.

I suggest everyone stop what they are doing and go back to page 1. When you find an effect that is note worthy, chances are any derivation of a few degrees to the left or right of that one specific build and the effect is dead. This is where this is going in my book if yo do not go back to the beginning NOW.

Sorry for being such a party pooper but we have seen this happen to many times. The original must be preserved and looked at very carefully, respectfully, and not just jump forward saying do now 45 degrees, try now multi primaries or any other change.

I think 45 degrees is too much. Think of the initial pulse, goes up the PWI at 45 degrees and imparts to the secondary, but then the PWI goes to the next 45 degrees that contacts secondaries that are way ahead of where the first PWO was and this could be canceling.

By using a smaller angle, the PWO/PWI physical positions following through the impulse would be more natural to actual physical motion of a rotor/stator relation. More angle may kill the effect.

Anyways, it's just a learning process.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 08, 2010, 03:35:46 AM
Does width of the tube matter  ? How about a toilet  paper roll . everyone has one of those  :) . . Have to find a piece of PVC  the correct Dimensions  from the hardware store tomorrow but i am going to try this with my pulse generator . Its capable of 1 mh all the way to 1.2 megcycles  and it has adjustable pulse width . It will hit 500mzh no problem and actually puts out up to 30 volts signal neg or pos  inverted or whatever . Just put a new tube in it . It was an auction from the magnetitics research lab from dupont .got it for 5 bucks  they had galvanometers and all sorts of goodies
Gadget
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 08, 2010, 03:55:13 AM
@gadgetmall
                 it looks like your inner primary winding is going the same way as the outer winding...when it should be the other way...you need to wind it like a triangle pattern upright,upside down,upright upside down etc...WWWWWWW....although...i wonder if
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 08, 2010, 04:43:46 AM
@gadgetmall
                 it looks like your inner primary winding is going the same way as the outer winding...when it should be the other way...you need to wind it like a triangle pattern upright,upside down,upright upside down etc...WWWWWWW....although...i wonder if
Hi .Actually it is correct winding according to his device . I just didnt put enuff slits and did it backwards and not at 45 degrees . . look here . Its straight forward . http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1050245.JPG
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 08, 2010, 05:42:25 AM
gadget
ketone is correct. your inside winding is following the outside angles. If you had a plexi tube, there wont be any dots or lets say crossings between the inner and outer primary turns. Your inner and outer follow the same line.
Not that it is the end of the world mind you, and it is another version that may work. But it is not the same as described. and that coil with the yellow wire is said to be wrong and doesnt work according to tony.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 08, 2010, 07:45:08 AM
Actually Gadget, Even though it is wrong, now that I think about it, HOW did you get it that way? I am in my mind trying to see the path that the thread would follow an its a physical impossibility!  Without some fangled routing, my guess by seeing it, it looks like a single loop from one hole to another. Athough I cannot see under the tape.
Im not making fun of your build, its just fact, how did you do that?   lol =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 08:19:47 AM
Tony,

>>Alex, I've got BC337-16 and BC337-40. Are you sure in the 100mA? They don't switch in my configuration.

The BC337 is a general purpose npn transistor capable of switching up to 0,8 ampere for the /25
and /40 type, and 0,5 ampere for the other types. I set the current limiting resistor to a value
that will ensure a maximum of 100mA through the transistor. The base resistor is there so that
we do not over current the 4017 ability (10mA) to source current. I can't find any errors in my circuit.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: nightlife on January 08, 2010, 08:57:49 AM
  I do hope that these devises that use coils and or torrids are actually accumulating energy that is not emitted from energy supplied by humans in the surrounding area.

 These devises must be tested away from any human supplied energy. That means no power wires, no houses and no machinery. I would suggest that testing be done more then a mile from any human energy source including human emitted airwaves.

  I don't want to discourage anyone but at the same time, I don't want anyone wasting time by jumping to conclusions without properly testing first.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 08, 2010, 09:28:14 AM
@watts up ,
exactly! too easy to change the effect and the correct starting point .lets see what Tony saw..then move on.
It not like it is expensive to build

@ gadget
that generator of yours could be gold (acording to SM) for this  but do  a better coil .. you know that.

@nightlife

Down the road a bit for certain , but for now who gives a rat's where it comes from?

If it is a means of remote power extraction its still fantastic!
None of the other inventors could completely justify its source .We just might find out .
Im not setting up in a bare field just yet. I like the hole explanation ..just for now though.


@tony
Thanks again for your sharing and do try to not let the negativity get to you whatever the various outcomes people get.
It would not be the first time that something was difficult to replicate due to yet unknown influences and abilities.

What a great find you made , I can almost see the tornado effect just looking at this thing , I do expect the right way to harvest the holes as you well put it ,another challenge.

I used a post tube that is 80 mm ..an A4 paper sheet fits the circumference exactly so marking it out is much easier using the paper with marks on it . come to think of it whatever the size cut a sheet of paper to the circumference and away you go!


Many dis-used cable reels have a nice former inside some heavy cardboard some hdpe (plastic)

I will fire this up tomorrow with various generators , wave shapes and voltages

Lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 08, 2010, 09:45:27 AM
On a very side note (from a PC hero without any testing skills):
I am sure some of you thought already about changing the 45 degrees later on.
I was thinking of a variable angle toroid, which would have a plastic ring on top and also at the bottom (for holding the primaries), and these two could be twisted independently from eachother, connected with a plastic rod in the middle of the toroid. Of course, the upper ring would go a bit up/down, in order not to damage the primary winding.
In other words, the primaries would be sitting on these twistable rings, while the secondary would be still on a PVC/toalet paper  ;) .
Thus, you could tune the angle while the device is turned on.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Earl on January 08, 2010, 11:27:29 AM
Tony,

Attached is my proposed 4017 circuit.
[snip]
Regards, Alex.

Alex, the resistors R1, R2, and R3 are *extremely* low in value.

The base-emitter junction will have so much charge injected into it, that it will take an eternity to pull the charge out again.

I detest using bipolar transistors if it is at all possible to use FETs, even if this is what Tony wishes for the time being.

In any case, the base drive resistors should be more like 100k or higher, and have a small ceramic capacitor in parallel to help in emptying the base-emitter charge when the drive signal transitions negative.

Until the "mass circuitry" is eliminated as SM says, I would suggest using a shift register rather than a decade counter.  More on this later.   In the meantime, for circuits, consult my 2007 post at
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2582.msg38506#msg38506
to see the advantages of using shift registers over decade counters.

Regards, Earl
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 11:37:34 AM
Earl,

Those are bipolar transistors so there are no charge.
The circuit will perform OK. I made the circuit as it
is because that was what Tony wanted.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Earl on January 08, 2010, 12:18:32 PM
Earl,
Those are bipolar transistors so there are no charge.
The circuit will perform OK. I made the circuit as it
is because that was what Tony wanted.
Alex.

Negative.  You are totally incorrect.  It is well known in EE that bipolars need injected charge into the base-emitter junction in order to be able to turn on.  In order for a bipolar transistor to be able to turn off, all this injected charge must be removed.

This is why every experienced EE uses base resistors of appropriate value.  A low-inductance capacitor in parallel with the base drive resistor is not optional, it is a *MUST* in order to increase speed of both turn-on and turn-off.

To further increase your knowledge of BJT, you may refer to
http://ecee.colorado.edu/~bart/book/book/chapter5/ch5_6.htm
where it says:
"As long as significant charge is still stored in the base region, the collector current will continue to exist. Only after this excess charge is removed, will the base-emitter junction capacitor be discharged and the BJT be turned off. The removal of the excess charge can take a significant delay time labeled as td,2 on the figure."

I have observed with an oscilloscope probe in my hand how too low a base drive resistor will cause an unbelievably long turn-off time in a BJT.

Regards, Earl
EE since 40+ years
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 01:22:41 PM
Earl,

If we use 18 volt input on this circuit (max. of what the 4017 can tolerate) then
the maximum current the 4017 can source or SINK is 10mA. The BC337 transistor
has an DC current gain of approx. 200. Now we use your 100K in series with the base.
The current from the 4017 pin will be 0,00018 Ampere. This will result in a maximum
collector emitter current of 0,036 Ampere or 36mA. In this design we want the
transistor to switch at least 100mA so we fall a little short with just 36mA.

Now we use 1K2 as a base resistor. At 18 volt the maximum base current will be 0,015 Ampere.
This is a little over the maximum that the 4017 can source but since we use approx. 50% duty
cycle then this current will be safe for the 4017. 0,015 Ampere will result in a collector emitter
current of 3 ampere. And that will blow the transistor if we haven't used the current limiting
resistors in series with the coil that limit the current to 100mA.

The 4017 can both source or sink current (or charge if you prefer that). I prefer to look at BJT
transistors like collector–emitter current can be viewed as being controlled by the base–emitter
current (current control). So when the 4017 switch off then the pin will sink and the BJT will switch off.

So I state again, there will be no "unbelievably long turn-off time" in the transistor.

Alex.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: skcusitrah on January 08, 2010, 02:25:29 PM
Listen to what Earl has to say GL.

Speed-up capacitors (http://wps.prenhall.com/chet_paynter_introduct_6/0,5779,426359-,00.html) are well known in their application for BJT switching applications (see 2/3 of the way down the page).

Don't be so arrogant to think that you can not learn something new, especially when analog electronics is not your forte.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 08, 2010, 02:31:01 PM
My 2 cents:
Any collector resistor in series with a coil will decrease the steepness of the current curve in the coil, no matter what is interfacing the base of the transistor and the 4017.
Is a less steep current slope allowed in this setup?
I guess the steeper the current increase the better.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 02:35:48 PM
@Everybody

I am ready with the coil and stop here with the experimenting and moving to design a complete driving circuitry with ordinary devices, variable duty cycle on each channel. I'll test it in simulator, build it on the breadboard and test it in reality as well by driving the coils and come back with the results.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Groundloop on January 08, 2010, 03:07:14 PM
@skcusitrah,

I DO listen to what Earl has to say. And I'm NOT arrogant, and very willing to LEARN something new.

But we are not here to discuss my person or Earl. We are here to promote free energy. I explained
my reason to why I designed the circuit like it is. I also explained why I did choose to use the
resistor values I did use. It is a shitty little circuit and not important in the long run.

Alex.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 08, 2010, 03:10:03 PM
Actually Gadget, Even though it is wrong, now that I think about it, HOW did you get it that way? I am in my mind trying to see the path that the thread would follow an its a physical impossibility!  Without some fangled routing, my guess by seeing it, it looks like a single loop from one hole to another. Athough I cannot see under the tape.
Im not making fun of your build, its just fact, how did you do that?   lol =]

Mags
WEll . Yes i know the Build for Stephan was wrong and he said it didn't work . I wound this just like a toroid ,one singe wire for the primary,in around in around . . Picture this as a toroid and i wound around the sides and insides .  . It looks like the one he made for Stephan . It appears to me he wound the same but i will accept it is wrong and re read the thread again . And i just was curious if a smaller version could be made and the paper roll was  handy . I also realize its one of the "crapiest : lol coils i ever wound  ;D

The Beauty of Alex's Electronics skills is that you can ask him what you need a circuit can do and he He can make it work almost instantly . I have Great respect for his EE abilities and consider him the best i have seen in 30+ years . I also respect Other's Idea's as well  but when we are dealing with unconventional free energy it's really unexplored territory not written in stone or paper and he was the only one to come up with a schematic  and very fast at that !


Gadget
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 08, 2010, 03:20:47 PM
Tony,
I don't  know if you believe in a higher power in this world?
But I do.
All I can do at this point is pray.

I am

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: skcusitrah on January 08, 2010, 03:55:17 PM
@skcusitrah,

I DO listen to what Earl has to say. And I'm NOT arrogant, and very willing to LEARN something new.

But we are not here to discuss my person or Earl. We are here to promote free energy. I explained
my reason to why I designed the circuit like it is. I also explained why I did choose to use the
resistor values I did use. It is a shitty little circuit and not important in the long run.

Alex.

The drive circuit can be improved by adjusting the base resistor and adding the parallel cap as has been mentioned and backed up with a reasonable reference.

YOU are talking only about the DC HFE and current requirements, and ignoring the switching characteristics and the recommendations made from an experienced designer.

Show some respect and gratitude for the suggestion, your argument/explanation is incomplete.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Earl on January 08, 2010, 03:56:27 PM
@Everybody

I am ready with the coil and stop here with the experimenting and moving to design a complete driving circuitry with ordinary devices, variable duty cycle on each channel. I'll test it in simulator, build it on the breadboard and test it in reality as well by driving the coils and come back with the results.

Good idea.  I suggest considering 4 channels instead of 3, in spite of the extra work involved in still another winding.  The reason for this suggestion is that it is so much easier to create quadrature signals with digital circuitry than 3 phases.  Additionally, in Nature I am not aware of her using 120 degrees whereas quadrature and orthogonality are found everywhere in Nature and in mathematics.  In my opinion, synchronously clocked shift registers have considerable advantages over decade counters.  See my circuit pages.

Another suggestion is not to force using phi or Phi (golden mean) in the conception or construction, but to keep this ratio in mind just in case it should happen to fit naturally into your design, rather than just picking some dimension or some ratio or some angle.

My 10 cents worth.

May the Force be with you.

Earl
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 04:34:21 PM
Tony,
I don't  know if you believe in a higher power in this world?

I know more about that you'd presume I do. :( That is why I came forward to the public and asked everybody to save everything on their computer I write and send photos, later vids.

@Earl

Yes quadrature is a good point. I was also thinking about that yesterday to wind it with 4 but I had to move to larger diameter with the tube. I went to the post office to buy larger mailing tubes but they don't have at the moment. No supplies for days due to the extreme wheather (snowing, frost, unmaintained roads, accidents). All I've got in larger diameter is acrylic tube (127mm, see the latest photo). It is not easy to wind even 3 on it as it is clear and you see cobwebs everywhere after 2 is done. :D

So yes the 4 is a good point. Also the more channel you have the smoother the output will be and the less power you need to keep it running. But yet the more channels require larger tube to keep the spaces between the wires and avoid the "echo". The winding is going in zig-zag to create a working state outside and a resting (accelerating) inside. It gives a picosecond timing and I don't know if you saw my last scopeshots - with the 6 split-channel version coil - that clearly indicated what I wanted to know whether it makes an infuence on the spike. Yes, so the full circle is the most efficient so far. No noise and loss. :)

I will certainly look into the 4-channel version later with larger tube and varied geometries.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: neptune on January 08, 2010, 04:55:29 PM
@Agentgates. Spray paint your acrylic tubes or cover in paper or duct tape etc.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 08, 2010, 04:58:35 PM
Try the local home improvement store and look at the concrete form tubes. They come in sizes that range from roughly 6~7' and up. and they are a bit thicker in the side walls. Just an idea...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: jsd453 on January 08, 2010, 05:10:55 PM
CD or DVD cases are roughly 5" (125mm) dia. Might work well.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 05:23:34 PM
Tony,
I don't  know if you believe in a higher power in this world?
But I do.
All I can do at this point is pray.

I am

Chet

Oh, ok I misunderstood. :) Yes I do. And thanks for the prayer. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: IceStorm on January 08, 2010, 05:42:07 PM
@Everybody

I am ready with the coil and stop here with the experimenting and moving to design a complete driving circuitry with ordinary devices, variable duty cycle on each channel. I'll test it in simulator, build it on the breadboard and test it in reality as well by driving the coils and come back with the results.

@Tony,

          Take great care with simulator, it can show you what you want but not necessary the true reality. Alot of people already build some test circuit in a simulator and got Unity, but that was just a error by the simulator who was using a Ideal model for all component in it. Use the real characteristic of your component in your simulation.

Best Regards,
IceStorm 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 06:23:11 PM
@Tony,

          Take great care with simulator, it can show you what you want but not necessary the true reality. Alot of people already build some test circuit in a simulator and got Unity, but that was just a error by the simulator who was using a Ideal model for all component in it. Use the real characteristic of your component in your simulation.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

Hello IceStorm,

Thank you for the advice I am aware of their inaccuracies (I'm a software engineer BTW ;) ).

UPDATE

Just an idea, if somebody has a stepper motor driver handy can save a lots of time with shift registers and transistors as in functionality they give similar result.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 08, 2010, 07:51:49 PM
Yes i have used several stepper motor drivers 3yr's ago  :)
I also tried with 4017's connected to logic FET's many many times aswell  :)
Trust me,in this case the best approach is programmable microchips.
Good luck on your working unit gates  ;D

M.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 08, 2010, 07:57:05 PM
Yes i have a stepper motor driver and i tried it 3yr's ago  :)
I also tried with 4017's connected to logic FET's many many times aswell  :)
Trust me,in this case the best approach is programmable microchips.
Good luck on your working unit gates  ;D

M.

Hi Marco,

Yes I was already in the the middle of it with Arduino. :) Just mentioned to those are not familiar with programming.

Regards
Tony
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 08, 2010, 08:20:49 PM
What a coincidence that my arduino duemilanove arrived today. It's a breeze programming it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 08, 2010, 08:50:01 PM
Hello, can we drive the coil with sine waves 120 degrees out of phase?  I figured that a sine wave would be needed, unless that's what you're already doing, if so I apologize for the useless post.  This is neat stuff, I ordered a function generator and a scope to start building.  Yay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 08, 2010, 11:45:22 PM
why not use a cap to phase shift?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 12:27:46 AM
What a coincidence that my arduino duemilanove arrived today. It's a breeze programming it.

:)

This is for Arduino. Ignore the 2-min-programming effect. :) I'll clean it up later when I reach that stage with the frequency.

const int digitalOutPin0 = 8;
const int digitalOutPin1 = 9;
const int digitalOutPin2 = 10;

const int onState = 1;
const int offState = 0;

int onDelay = 1;
int offDelay = 1;

void setup()
{

}

void loop()
{
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
}

BTW does anybody know why I get falling edge like these from Arduino?
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG)

Hello, can we drive the coil with sine waves 120 degrees out of phase?  I figured that a sine wave would be needed, unless that's what you're already doing, if so I apologize for the useless post.  This is neat stuff, I ordered a function generator and a scope to start building.  Yay

120 degrees is the goal. See above the scopeshot. That is 120 phase out. I tried sine wave earlier but the output was significantly lower.

UPDATE

If others have the same problem with arduino, use a Mohm pull down resistor to eliminate the ugly falling edge.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: eastcoastwilly on January 09, 2010, 12:47:55 AM
:)

This is for Arduino. Ignore the 2-min-programming effect. :) I'll clean it up later when I reach that stage with the frequency.

const int digitalOutPin0 = 8;
const int digitalOutPin1 = 9;
const int digitalOutPin2 = 10;

const int onState = 1;
const int offState = 0;

int onDelay = 1;
int offDelay = 1;

void setup()
{

}

void loop()
{
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
}

BTW does anybody know why I get falling edge like these from Arduino?
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG)

120 degrees is the goal. See above the scopeshot. That is 120 phase out. I tried sine wave earlier but the output was significantly lower.

@agentgates,

Here's some info on port registers for the Arduino. Being a software dev I'm sure you will have no problems getting the Arduino to do what you like. This is just for future reference should you need the functionality;

Keep up the great work,

Will

FTA >> http://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/PortManipulation


Here are some of the positive aspects of direct port access:

    * You may need to be able to turn pins on and off very quickly, meaning within fractions of a microsecond. If you look at the source code in lib/targets/arduino/wiring.c, you will see that digitalRead() and digitalWrite() are each about a dozen or so lines of code, which get compiled into quite a few machine instructions. Each machine instruction requires one clock cycle at 16MHz, which can add up in time-sensitive applications. Direct port access can do the same job in a lot fewer clock cycles.

    * Sometimes you might need to set multiple output pins at exactly the same time. Calling digitalWrite(10,HIGH); followed by digitalWrite(11,HIGH); will cause pin 10 to go HIGH several microseconds before pin 11, which may confuse certain time-sensitive external digital circuits you have hooked up. Alternatively, you could set both pins high at exactly the same moment in time using PORTB |= B1100;

    * If you are running low on program memory, you can use these tricks to make your code smaller. It requires a lot fewer bytes of compiled code to simultaneously write a bunch of hardware pins simultaneously via the port registers than it would using a for loop to set each pin separately. In some cases, this might make the difference between your program fitting in flash memory or not!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 09, 2010, 01:38:17 AM
BTW does anybody know why I get falling edge like these from Arduino?
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG)

Have you seen this example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Fading

You could use a single analog output to keep it on high and fade it out afterwards.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Nikola Tesla on January 09, 2010, 02:12:18 AM
For the first time in history this is getting scary intresting  :)
There has always been a dead time in between pulses comming from 555 and or 4017 circuitry because there is no overlapping.
This shuts the field down between each step and this methode can never work.

If you guys suceed in proper overlapping, thus switching coils in time before the previous ones are switched off so the field never drops out, things can become real. :)
Nobody tried that in all these years, and i have always been thinking this was most important in order for the fields to interact properly.

NT.



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 09, 2010, 02:25:56 AM
For the first time in history this is getting scary intresting  :)
There has always been a dead time in between pulses comming from 555 and or 4017 circuitry because there is no overlapping.
This shuts the field down between each step and this methode can never work.

If you guys suceed in proper overlapping, thus switching coils in time before the previous ones are switched off so the field never drops out, things can become real. :)
Nobody tried that in all these years, and i have always been thinking this was most important in order for the fields to interact properly.

NT.

It's pretty easy to have overlapping signals. Instead of using the delay function and letting the whole microchip do nothing for a while, you check if a certain time limit has passed if not you ignore the code block and move on to the next. Here's yet another example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay (http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay)

An arduino is really a must next to an oscilloscope and a singal generator in this field, it allows for fast prototyping and feedback without too much headaches and it's cheap. I know tony wanted to keep things simple, hence the simplified decade timer, but an arduino offers much more control and is very simple to adjust on the fly thus ideal for finding the right parameters.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 09, 2010, 03:27:08 AM
Hello ALL,

A fellow member of this forum, JDO300, asked me to post this for him.  He is busy working on his new sine wave generator. 

"Hi Bruce,

Here's the schematic I mentioned to you. Rather than using the 4017, this circuit uses a 74HC164 Shift register. That in combination with a NOR Gate produces the same effect as the 4017 (and the circuit could easily be modified to use the 4017 instead). But the useful thing here is that the signal source's pulse width is used to control the output pulse widths of the three channels simultaneously through the use of the three AND gates.

I didn't bother to redraw the circuit with the 4017 since I already had it in my stash so I thought I would pass it along. The signal source can be a 555 timer or any other suitable clock source." 

Any questions can be directed towards Jason.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 09, 2010, 05:05:16 AM
I have as best I can attempted to get the results with the first coil setup.

I have varied the pulse width frequency, drive and powersupply. 0 -32v
I notice a solid resonance around 1.5 megahertz
I notice the coil gets quite hot as does the massive heatsink on my three igbt's
I do not see a dc level rise on the out put coil at any time

The heat being dissipated although not measured does not seem excessive for the wattage supplied

I have put various voltage globes on the output coil which is 5 turns and the 12 volt tail lamp gives the best response.

My pn devices have not blown up yet

There are Many things that I may not have  exactly correct so I wait for more specific  info on this first test please .
I have 3 phase controller etc etc etc  ready to go .

But need the start point

@Tony or any body who has run this up
could you of somebody else please help me and others get to the first described results    first..


Thanks

still mostly optomistic,

lindsay

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 08:17:03 AM
Here's some info on port registers for the Arduino. Being a software dev I'm sure you will have no problems getting the Arduino to do what you like. This is just for future reference should you need the functionality;

Thanks, that looks handy. :)

Have you seen this example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Fading

You could use a single analog output to keep it on high and fade it out afterwards.

I am not looking to fade for now. Those were digital ports. :D

It's pretty easy to have overlapping signals. Instead of using the delay function and letting the whole microchip do nothing for a while, you check if a certain time limit has passed if not you ignore the code block and move on to the next. Here's yet another example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay (http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay)

An arduino is really a must next to an oscilloscope and a singal generator in this field, it allows for fast prototyping and feedback without too much headaches and it's cheap. I know tony wanted to keep things simple, hence the simplified decade timer, but an arduino offers much more control and is very simple to adjust on the fly thus ideal for finding the right parameters.

Thanks. Yes I agree. Actually Arduino will also keep it simple.


@Nikola Tesla

Yes I did try these things a year ago and worked but used flyback diodes and thicker for primary thus blown my PSU, later PG and other instruments so I gave up at that time. :)

@Lindsay

1. Set the PG to 1kHz/50% and leave it as a constant reference signal, that should always work. And BTW it is not sensitive for frequency like a radio device. Think of the importance of frequency like at a switching PSU. Nothing more. :)

2. Make sure the IGBTs turn on properly.

3. Check the primary if it's not too thick. Mine is 0.38mm.

4. Check the left/right handed winding thing on both primaries and secondary. Perhaps it also counts. Take it as a reference:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG)
(That is equivalent with 1 primary)

5. Make sure the signal is square wave, not sine or "flatter". (it works correctly with poor squarewaves as well)

6. Remove the bulb and let it to run without load for now.

7. Make sure the gaps are correct between the turns. If they are too close you really need the juice to see something on the scope.

8. If you still have problems please don't hesitate to send photos or we can chat on Skype if you'd need further help. :)

UPDATE

9. Make sure the secondary is tight enough. No need to force it just make sure it's not loose. That gives much worse output.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 09, 2010, 09:04:30 AM
Tony
Something is different in this thread!
Feels very good.

Thanks Tony
and @all

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 09, 2010, 09:36:50 AM
Some simple math:
1 KHz @ 50 % driving e.g. coil that is powered by 12 V and has a resistance of 1 ohm.
- Max. current in the primary will be 12 A
- Power consumed by the primary is 12V x 12A x 0.5 = 72W

I am sure the primary will get hot with these settings.

Yes, I am aware that impedance will limit the current somewhat more, but with 36 windings it will hardly count.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 09:47:51 AM
Some simple math:
1 KHz @ 50 % driving e.g. coil that is powered by 12 V and has a resistance of 1 ohm.
- Max. current in the primary will be 12 A
- Power consumed by the primary is 12V x 12A x 0.5 = 72W

I am sure the primary will get hot with these settings.

Yes, I am aware that impedance will limit the current somewhat more, but with 36 windings it will hardly count.

Yes that is correct, but his seeking error, and I just wanted to make sure I give him 100% working data that he can rely on because I don't know his configuration in details. BTW, mine are ~4.75 ohms DC on Stefan's new sexy acrylic coil. :)

@Lindsay
You can try one primary at a time. Just hook it to the PG directly and you'll see your optimum.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 09:50:43 AM
Tony
Something is different in this thread!
Feels very good.

Perhaps they tried out what I said and fight with their breaths. :D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 09, 2010, 11:06:08 AM
Tony, I am a bit worried about your power supply and its possible behaviour.
I am using a car battery, so current is available up to 400 Amps.
With very low primary coil resistance/impedance your power supply will most likely reach its current limit, although you are applying a large capacitor parallel to its terminals.

If this happens, I wonder what the effect will be on the circuit.
Maybe it's useful to monitor your input power with an oscilloscope to see how stable your power supply is during operation.
Is this something you already have checked?

I may sound a bit critical, but I am only trying to help out issues that will be raised anyhow, I hope everybody understands that.
See them as constructive comments.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 09, 2010, 11:09:40 AM
@ tony .. ok more work tonight when the heat dies down here.

try one primary at a time?
I only have one primary. Have i missed something there?

thanks

lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 09, 2010, 01:04:47 PM
 Hi all,         
               
                Haven't been able to start my build yet{materials}....but was wondering if anyone has based their build angle of the primary windings on the golden triangle? It has angles of  36°-72°-72°.

  afaik...agentgates is getting great results with 45 degrees

 

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 01:17:57 PM
@teslaalset

Thanks for the useful advices. :) I put more caps in parallel just to be sure. BTW I am moving on to decrease the current intake and step a bit higher with voltage as it more behaves as a voltage device rather than a current one. So I placed current limiter resistors in series with the coils.

@Lindsay

Yes we are optimising my old design to make the fact of OU less questionable, more compact and more visual  without using more TPUs. In my original design I used 2 stages of TPUs to boost up the output with LC stages and full bridge rectifiers to keep the field spinning. We are about to repeat it with a single TPU without ugly spikes, inefficient back EMFs and heating problems.

Some major modifications:

1. Gaps between secondary windings to decrease back EMF, power consumption and remove many components intended to smooth the output. With this configuration for one shot all you have to see is a big exponentially rising hump with the same falling edge and 2 or three hard to see long and almost completely flat waves as back EMF oscillation. See the 2 scope shots I sent for comparison, those were taken by the 9 turn secondary coil of mine.

2. More primary coils to distribute heat on the coils and (it is important) to fill the gaps between the pulses as it seems the winding gaps give the pulse delay not the driving frequency. We layed 2 other primary between the already wound one and shoot them in 120 degrees phase out. (I'm currently simplifying the circuitry to make it cheaper to build and more available to all testers)

The correct output signal with one primary at 50% is like this: -__-__-__-__-__.

If you increase or decrease the pulse width you'll get smaller peak, instead of shorter or longer in duration, also the gaps remain stable at any frequencies. This is why the 2 more primary.

Input signals:
---___---___---___---___
_---___---___---___---__
__---___---___---___---_

Output signal:
--------------------------

So you should get a stable HV high current DC with some insignificant waves on it's top without LC.

3. We use thinner primary wires than the original has, as it seems the device likes to spin electrons in thicker conductors in its environment. By using thinner wires we decrease the weight on the IGBTs and we can step below to low power transistors or darlington array or similar.

4. We use thicker on the secondary to get the power collected there rather than on the primary.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 09, 2010, 04:02:38 PM
Hello IceStorm,

Thank you for the advice I am aware of their inaccuracies (I'm a software engineer  ;) ).

UPDATE

Just an idea, if somebody has a stepper motor driver handy can save a lots of time with shift registers and transistors as in functionality they give similar result.


Arduino stepper controller code

http://code.google.com/p/rsteppercontroller/downloads/list
http://code.google.com/p/arduino-m5451-current-driver/w/list
http://code.google.com/p/stepperserialcontrol/downloads/list

http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/StepperMotor
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/StepperBipolar
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 05:31:58 PM
@wings
Thanks for the link. I tried the arduino stepper motor library last night but it doesn't really comply my demands. It has inaccurate output and needs feedback to work correctly.

Video in a few minutes with some explanation as I saw many of you had problems with understanding the concept.

(sorry for the delay there is no sound, I'm going to record it again :( )
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 09, 2010, 05:57:29 PM
Gotta get some popcorn :D

I used to love the movies


Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tanakat on January 09, 2010, 06:19:29 PM
Yay ;) Keep up the good work Tony, thanks for sharing all this stuff with the community ! can't wait for the video ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 09, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
A short break Gentleman. :( I have problems with the cam and pc that I have to solve here. As for the video it is not yet the full presentation, only an explanation to those are trying to understand how it works as I saw many of them are a bit out-of-date with the corrected design.

This device is not heating anymore and using simpler circuitry since running in voltage mode, not current mode anymore.

UPDATE1

Think I've solved the audio problem, already converting now and uploading straight after.

UPDATE2

I've converted it, no sound again and vid is choppy. >:(
What format should I use for youtube? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: IWD on January 09, 2010, 07:19:34 PM
and scope pictures of the DC offset is not possible too?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 09, 2010, 08:04:28 PM
@teslaset

Are you using ohm law to calculate current at inductive load? If supply is 12VDC and coils is 1ohm current flow will depend on frequency.
Dont forget about impedance! :)

M
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 09, 2010, 08:26:28 PM
@teslaset

Are you using ohm law to calculate current at inductive load? If supply is 12VDC and coils is 1ohm current flow will depend on frequency.
Dont forget about impedance! :)

M

Hi Minde,
Maybe you didn't read my last sentence....
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 09, 2010, 09:03:10 PM
@teslaset

You are right. I guess I didnt... sorry  :-X

M

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: monkeywork on January 09, 2010, 11:32:16 PM
for YouTube I've used a .mov compressed with H264 compression.

an .avi works as well.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 10, 2010, 12:10:54 AM
Hi Agentgates,
you can use the free programs
SUPER

or

Mediacoder

to convert videos from
one format to the other.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 10, 2010, 12:32:45 AM
Update,

What i thought were IGBT's are actually mosfets..darn..

there is howevr , at 1khz, rf bursts but only with just sufficient drive ....so this is gate noise

my generator will deliver up to 30 volts out

I dont have any igbt's  it would seem that they must be vital .
@Tony do you have the effect  with any other devices?

I will switch to tubes but I insist on seeing the first effect

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Freezer on January 10, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
UPDATE2

I've converted it, no sound again and vid is choppy. >:(
What format should I use for youtube? Thanks in advance.

I would recommend using a codec like divx which will drastically reduce the file size while maintaining decent quality.

Youtube file formats

    * Windows Media Video (.WMV)
    * .3GP (cell phones)
    * .AVI (windows)
    * .MOV (mac)
    * .MP4 (ipod/psp)
    * .MPEG
    * .FLV (adobe flash)
    * .MKV (h.264)

Resolutions - 640x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080

File size limit - 2g or 10 minute length




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 10, 2010, 01:14:44 AM
Using SUPER go to this page for the best conversion for Youtube.

http://webvideotechniques.com/35/how-to-encode-your-videos-for-youtubes-new-high-quality-option


*********************************
Enough with the details, just give me the encoding settings!
Open SUPER and import your source video. Make sure you do not change any default settings except for the ones noted below.
Set Output Container as: MP4
Set Output Video Codec as: H.264/AVC
Set Output Audio Codec as: AAC LC
Under Video Scale Size, check the More box and enter 640 : 480 (4:3) or 640 : 360 (16:9 widescreen)
Set Aspect to 4:3 for SD or 16:9 for HD/Widescreen
Set Frames per Second to 29.97  (Note: As long as your Source is progressive, you can use virtually any frame rate 24, 25,30, etc.)
For Bitrate kbps, choose 4080
IMPORTANT: Depending on the amount of movement and color in your video, you may need to raise the bitrate.
 During testing using a clip with a lot of motion, 4080 provided the best end results.
 If the video you export has blocks or artifacts, then you may try raising the bitrate to 5000kbps.
Make sure “Hi Quality” selected BUT NOT “Top Quality”
Uncheck 48k Audio
Select a Sample Rate of 44100
Set the channels to 2
For Bitrate kbps, select 256
Click the encode button to encode your video
************************


Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 10, 2010, 01:16:46 AM
Anthony,
a video is not really needed-
Just give us the specs with a few pics and we will be all right.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 01:32:30 AM
UPDATE2

I've converted it, no sound again and vid is choppy. >:(
What format should I use for youtube? Thanks in advance.

Hi Anthony,

God knows I have done many video's on Youtube.

I use Super like Stefan has suggested: http://download.cnet.com/3001-2194_4-10277613.html?spi=9c02d478042d76a42f60c92869355434

Capture Full DV to computer, after edit (if needed) use Super to convert for Youtube upload. Make sure video is not more than 10 minutes.

Settings for Super, "output container" select: avi, "output video codec" select: H.264/AVC, "output audio codec" select: mp3.

Video scale size select: 320 x 240, aspect: 4:3, frame/sec: 23.976, bitrate: 1008, options: check mark in Hi quality box

Audio sampling Feq: 22050, Channels: 1, Bitrate: 96

Right click where you drop video and select where you want the converted file to be saved before you start and then drop or right click to select the video to be converted.

This will make a great quality file that will be just under 100mb and very compatible with Youtube codec so not too much loss will happen when they convert it.

Hope this helps.

Luc

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 01:41:02 AM
Using SUPER go to this page for the best conversion for Youtube.

http://webvideotechniques.com/35/how-to-encode-your-videos-for-youtubes-new-high-quality-option


*********************************
Enough with the details, just give me the encoding settings!
Open SUPER and import your source video. Make sure you do not change any default settings except for the ones noted below.
Set Output Container as: MP4
Set Output Video Codec as: H.264/AVC
Set Output Audio Codec as: AAC LC
Under Video Scale Size, check the More box and enter 640 : 480 (4:3) or 640 : 360 (16:9 widescreen)
Set Aspect to 4:3 for SD or 16:9 for HD/Widescreen
Set Frames per Second to 29.97  (Note: As long as your Source is progressive, you can use virtually any frame rate 24, 25,30, etc.)
For Bitrate kbps, choose 4080
IMPORTANT: Depending on the amount of movement and color in your video, you may need to raise the bitrate.
 During testing using a clip with a lot of motion, 4080 provided the best end results.
 If the video you export has blocks or artifacts, then you may try raising the bitrate to 5000kbps.
Make sure “Hi Quality” selected BUT NOT “Top Quality”
Uncheck 48k Audio
Select a Sample Rate of 44100
Set the channels to 2
For Bitrate kbps, select 256
Click the encode button to encode your video
************************


Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

just noticed your post ;D

Anthony maybe in Europe so I suggested he selects 23,976 for frame rate since video in 220vac/50Hz countries are at this frame rate. Even if he is in America or Canada it will still work but it dosen't work well the other way around to increase frame rate.

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Freezer on January 10, 2010, 01:59:43 AM
Video scale size select: 320 x 240, aspect: 4:3, frame/sec: 23.976, bitrate: 1008,

320x240 is pretty low resolution even for youtube, I would upload at least 640x360/ 640x480.  Of course if your source is lower than that it won't even matter.


Man just send me the video, I'll have it uploaded in 2 minutes. :p
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 10, 2010, 02:21:26 AM
Luc,
it is 25 frames/sec in Europe,
but 23,976 is for cinema movies only
taken (shot) with old real film cameras.

For NTSC DV video source (interlaced TV video) keep 29.97 frames/sec,
if you are in a PAL country like Europe keep 25 frames/sec.

Keep the original video frame size like
720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL
and better go with about 5000 to 8000 KBits/sec for
the videobitrate.
Then the video will be much clearer...
Youtube will Re-encode it anyway again to FLV format with
their own settings, so it is important to upload the video already
with a high quality.
Many thanks.
Looking to see the real deal.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 02:33:32 AM
320x240 is pretty low resolution even for youtube, I would upload at least 640x360/ 640x480.  Of course if your source is lower than that it won't even matter.


Man just send me the video, I'll have it uploaded in 2 minutes. :p

I've been doing this for a while. From what I understand when I researched it a while back is Youtube will convert it to 320 x 240 so it's best to send it in a format that minimum re-encoding will occur on their side. Their audio is also 22050

No point in uploading a huge file that will end up being re-encoded to something much smaller. Saves much time on uploading and bandwidth ;D

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 02:40:21 AM
Luc,
it is 25 frames/sec in Europe,
but 23,976 is for cinema movies only
taken (shot) with old real film cameras.

For NTSC DV video source (interlaced TV video) keep 29.97 frames/sec,
if you are in a PAL country like Europe keep 25 frames/sec.

Keep the original video frame size like
720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL
and better go with about 5000 to 8000 KBits/sec for
the videobitrate.
Then the video will be much clearer...
Youtube will Re-encode it anyway again to FLV format with
their own settings, so it is important to upload the video already
with a high quality.
Many thanks.
Looking to see the real deal.
Regards, Stefan.

Sorry Stefan but that is not correct!  I know, I use to work in multi standard video and Pal video is 23,976 frames/sec... it is Film that is 25 frames/sec world wide.

I've also experimented in uploading high quality files to Youtube and it comes to the same quality as my recommendation except for the fact of wasting much time uploading and huge bandwidth use.

Is there a lack of quality in my video's?

Try it for yourself and see if you can see a difference.

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 10, 2010, 02:47:39 AM

I've also experimented in uploading high quality files to Youtube and it comes to the same quality as my recommendation except for the fact of wasting much time uploading and huge bandwidth use.


I don't know when you did that but youtube supports an array of resolutions, so it does matter in what resolution you upload. It can go from standard to Full HD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 03:12:50 AM
I don't know when you did that but youtube supports an array of resolutions, so it does matter in what resolution you upload. It can go from standard to Full HD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs

Yes Broli I know they have recently offered better resolutions but why choose these for a demo.

Best to not waste huge amounts of time for a quality that most will not notice the difference. I always stayed with there standard video specs as stated by wikipedia.
Quality and codecs

YouTube originally offered videos at only one quality level, but now has a range of quality levels as well as a format for viewing on mobile phones. The original format displayed videos at a resolution of 320x240 pixels using the H.263 Sorenson Spark codec, with mono MP3 audio

Have you or anyone else here uploaded 2Gig video file size just for a demo? Is there a video quality problem in my videos that I'm not aware of?

Can we stop this nonsense and just get the job done?

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: downunder on January 10, 2010, 04:27:53 AM
Sorry Stefan but that is not correct!  I know, I use to work in multi standard video and Pal video is 23,976 frames/sec... it is Film that is 25 frames/sec world wide.

I've also experimented in uploading high quality files to Youtube and it comes to the same quality as my recommendation except for the fact of wasting much time uploading and huge bandwidth use.

Is there a lack of quality in my video's?

Try it for yourself and see if you can see a difference.

Luc

Hi gotoluc

I'm afraid Stefan is correct and you must be getting PAL and Film framerates confused.  Please check these links for confirmation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
"The majority of countries using PAL have television standards with 625 lines and 25 frames per second"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
"The 24p frame rate is also a noninterlaced format, and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. But film- and video-makers turn to 24p for the "cine"-look even if their productions are not going to be transferred to film, simply because of the "look" of the frame rate. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 frame/s, and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 frame/s. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 frames per second, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 frame/s for NTSC television and 25 frame/s for PAL/SECAM. The 24 frame/s rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s."
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 10, 2010, 05:27:14 AM
I am making slits for the first of the three primary windings, by the time i make slits for the other two primaries, the spacing will end up around 2.5 mm between primaries? That is about as much as my big fingers can handle, Anyone getting closer spacing between primaries?



update: completed primary1...two more to go!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 07:04:39 AM
Hi gotoluc

I'm afraid Stefan is correct and you must be getting PAL and Film framerates confused.  Please check these links for confirmation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
"The majority of countries using PAL have television standards with 625 lines and 25 frames per second"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
"The 24p frame rate is also a noninterlaced format, and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. But film- and video-makers turn to 24p for the "cine"-look even if their productions are not going to be transferred to film, simply because of the "look" of the frame rate. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 frame/s, and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 frame/s. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 frames per second, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 frame/s for NTSC television and 25 frame/s for PAL/SECAM. The 24 frame/s rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s."

Yes downunder!  that is correct!... I knew that film was an even number of frames and 23.976 was a video frame rate and not film (motion pictures) in its original world standard frame rate. I guess that's what I was trying to get through. Thank you for clearing it up ;)

Sorry Stefan for the mix up.

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 10, 2010, 10:45:15 AM
@all

I made one with a jt circuit 18 turns , with a secondary of 4 turns , i get 4.5 volt once rectified leds light on it , due to the design i made i get AC but if you really can get true DC from it i will.

Btw i used a 15/75 degree , 2n2222 transistor and 300 ohm pot , 1.5 v aa...

There is interesting stuff happening , i am surprised to even get anything from the secondary...

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 10, 2010, 11:55:40 AM
I am making slits for the first of the three primary windings, by the time i make slits for the other two primaries, the spacing will end up around 2.5 mm between primaries? That is about as much as my big fingers can handle, Anyone getting closer spacing between primaries?



update: completed primary1...two more to go!

WOW!  Nice coil!  Keep up the amazing work!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 12:12:14 PM
@Lindsay

Something i not right there. The IGBTs shouldn't be vital.

This is my configuration with the 80mm mailing tube for ONE primary coil:

10 degrees gap between each primary. 0.19mm thin wire. (I tried it up to 0.38mm, worked)
9 turns of the secondary. (0.74mm)

Drive it with low freq. This configuration will give you the nice high current exponential spikes I mentioned. Please DO use current limiter resistor. My latest coil has 0.19mm for primary and a single 15 ohms current limiter for the source.

If you want to light a bulb with ONE primary you will need to go higher with the output voltage, otherwise you will need the minimum 3 primary. My first design was running on 500V spikes, smoothed a bit with LC and went in the next TPU. The next stage went to 800V spikes, smoothing again with LC and the bulb. (this is bad, and the current design will run with one TPU without LC)

The PRESENT design:

0.19mm primary coils. Altogether 3 primary wound on the acrylic tube in the same manner. 45 degrees angle to the centreline and 10 degrees between the same primary coil. Each primary coil has 3.33 degrees offset to the previous one.

Some photos of the present design:

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100273.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100273.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG)

Incoming signal on 2 channels with overlapping, but if you use 4017 the next things still should work. (please ignore the falling edge that is corrected by 3x 1Mohm pulldown, just focus on the delay between the channels and the duty cycle 50%)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1080272.JPG)

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100276.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100276.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100277.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100277.JPG)

Lock the scope trigger on the output, slowly increase the input and watch the scope signal on the output with the growing hump:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100278.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100278.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100279.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100279.JPG)

My zero line is the red marker on the left.

This is RAPIDLY happenning as you are slowly increasing the input:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100280.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100280.JPG)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100281.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100281.JPG)

The 2 more humps will appear to the left and right. This the correct signal. The current should rapidly fall back on the input side as they jump out.

BUT, If you receive something like this:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG)

then your winding is incorrect.

Please see the winding on the current coil. One coil:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG)

2 coils:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070267.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070267.JPG)


and 3 coils ready:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070270.JPG)

@ketone

Your coil is very nice! Please make sure you will set the resistance with a current limiter resistor to 20ohm in series. Probably a 18ohms 5W resistor or 22ohms. You will see it.

Thanks for the advices to everyone on youtube-hell-format. :) I will look into it as I screwd up a half day with coding yesterday.

UPDATE1

Ignore the 3 huge IGBTs as it is voltage driven now. Later I will use darlingtons or a single darlington array.

UPDATE2

I have forgotten the most important. There is a single secondary on it right now. Presently waiting for Stefan's reply on the 2x200V

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100282.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100282.JPG)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 10, 2010, 12:27:36 PM
@ Tony,

A quick question:
What type of powerFET drivers are you using?
(I use MC 34151 for the moment)

B.t.w. you called it Current design, which is kind of confusing.
You probably ment Present
Apart from that this design is voltage driven i.s.o. current driven.

Thanks for the new details!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 12:36:28 PM
@ Tony,

A quick question:
What type of powerFET drivers are you using.
(I currently use MC 34151)

B.t.w. you called it Current design, which is kind of confusing.
You probably ment present in such that this design is voltage driven i.s.o. current driven.

TC426CPA unfortunatelly inverting but don't let it to confuse you, just use a normal non-inverting one. BTW they are rubbish, very sensitive for ESD. I found them in the drawer. My favourite FET drivers are coming on the next week (hopefully) as we have heavy snowing and other problems right now.

lol @ current/present. yes you are right, I fix it. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 12:43:17 PM
@Stefan

Do you want an inverter on it? As if you do please let me know it now and I'll wind the secondary for 2x200V on your coil.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 10, 2010, 01:23:59 PM
Thanks tony!

You have made it clear,  nice coil  beautifil in fact.. hope you dont melt it!

I wonder if being in the southern hemisphere I may  need to wind the primary in reverse direction, just something that Steven said once.

just let me know if they work both ways for you and ill leave that out of the equasion

I will wind another on a bigger spool like you have done to make things easier to handle, fine wire .

Currenty using .25mm on the 80mm spool the out put 5 turns 1mm wire taped down resonably firm 10mm gap between secondary 9mm between primary.. relying on the wire coating for seperation between primary and secondary





I will perservere using your guidance.. we have almost the exact same lvdc power supplies
thank you for the concise descriptions.

lindsay

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 10, 2010, 02:14:45 PM
Hey Lindsay,

Yeah, I too have wondered and wondered about how SM said they rotated the other way in the Southern Hemisphere.  You are the only person that has mentioned it.

So it seems to me that if we just Reversed the polarity going to the coils, and used the Polarity that gave the Highest Output to the Load.

What is your opinion?

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 02:19:25 PM
@all

I made one with a jt circuit 18 turns , with a secondary of 4 turns , i get 4.5 volt once rectified leds light on it , due to the design i made i get AC but if you really can get true DC from it i will.

Btw i used a 15/75 degree , 2n2222 transistor and 300 ohm pot , 1.5 v aa...

There is interesting stuff happening , i am surprised to even get anything from the secondary...

Mark

Hi Mark,

How big is the space you have between the turns? 10 or 20 degrees? Please note that if you don't finish the winding on the coil you will receive the incorrect signal I also posted above.

If you have 18 turnes, you need 20 degrees spaces, but you really have to struggle to make high curent spikes.

You get the AC beacuse the current is low.

My advise is to check the 45 degrees to the centreline, use 10 degrees between each turnes and make the 36 turnes complete. Afterwards lay the 2 more primary between the 10 degrees spaces. That is 3.33 degrees.

Use thin wire for primary, 0.38mm or 0.19mm. The thinner the better but also the more difficult to work with.

The secondary should be alright if the spaces are more than 2x of the diameter and the diameter is greater than the primary. I wouldn't go below 0.74mm (this is the lowest I tried so far, the thicker secondary performs better)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 02:28:36 PM
I wonder if being in the southern hemisphere I may  need to wind the primary in reverse direction, just something that Steven said once.

Yes, please do try it and let us know the deatils. And please don't destroy your other coil wound in the opposite direction as we can verify it later whether it's a problem.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 10, 2010, 03:38:23 PM
@Stefan

Do you want an inverter on it? As if you do please let me know it now and I'll wind the secondary for 2x200V on your coil.

Hi Tony,
what is your normal output voltage ?

Well, high voltages AC or DC for driving directly 230/240 Volts incandescent bulbs would be great.

Did you succeed to convert the video ?
I just see, that no new video is uploaded on your agentgates youtube account.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Vortex1 on January 10, 2010, 03:52:28 PM
Pardon my question but in photo 281 the area on the waveform under the zero line roughly equals the area above the zero line (the peak). This would imply an AC oscillation on the secondary, not DC. correct me if I'm wrong, but I have been often fooled by this.

Also photo 254 was earlier touted as being a correct response on the secondary and now is stated as incorrect.

If you believe your secondary is producing DC, you should be able to put a cap on it without any problems. Use an isolating diode if necessary, but shouldn't be required.

A diode and cap in the forward direction and diode and cap in the reverse direction on the secondary with small loads across the caps will quickly give an indication of DC balance or imbalance or whether your secondary is producing balanced AC.

Most handheld DMM's will read zero volts DC when connected to an AC waveform, but waveforms with HF components can trick the meter.

Just a suggestion as determining DC from an irregular waveform can be tricky.

Thanks for all your work.......V
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 04:12:10 PM
I have stayed out of it to give a chance for tony to finalize, but the same question comes to my mind. How can a dc line on the scope remain on the sec. if the primary is pulsed? That would assume that something is still happening in the primary or within the coil as a whole, during the off cycles. To have a solid dc line along with lil hump pulses on the sec. would suggest that the coil is acting as a capacitor of sorts. And with so few windings, I find it hard to comprehend.
Still awaiting a video

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 04:14:33 PM
Pardon my question but in photo 281 the area on the waveform under the zero line roughly equals the area above the zero line (the peak). This would imply an AC oscillation on the secondary, not DC. correct me if I'm wrong, but I have been often fooled by this.

Also photo 254 was earlier touted as being a correct response on the secondary and now is stated as incorrect.

If you believe your secondary is producing DC, you should be able to put a cap on it without any problems. Use an isolating diode if necessary, but shouldn't be required.

A diode and cap in the forward direction and diode and cap in the reverse direction on the secondary with small loads across the caps will quickly give an indication of DC balance or imbalance or whether your secondary is producing balanced AC.

Just a suggestion as determining DC from an irregular waveform can be tricky.

Thanks for all your work.......V

Ignore the negative range as the spikes will jump together when I increase the freq and voltage. The negative range is due to the very high voltage going in. (34V)

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100282.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100282.JPG)

This was never stated as correct:

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG)

as that coil didn't make a full 36 turnes, only 12 or 24 with 10 degrees gaps. That is an incomplete circle and you'll need to struggle to clean it up with LC and much loss. I posted that to show it is incorrect. ou can still make OU with that but the performance will be high below the optimal.

If I did that then was not intentional (perhaps I got mixed up with the numbers) and please show me the comment thus I can correct it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 04:23:54 PM
To have a solid dc line along with lil hump pulses on the sec. would suggest that the coil is acting as a capacitor of sorts.

That is the point. The secondary behaves as a cap. Take a look at the previous photos with 12V ~0.2A going in. You don't need to go above ~20V with the voltage to get spikes without negative range. That negative range is due to the extrememly high input voltage (34V).

Presently I'm winding Stephans secondary so I decided to make another vid with that.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 04:26:49 PM
The picture of the light bulb hooked up to the singe secondary winding, is the light bulb actually lighting or is that just the cam flash?

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 10, 2010, 04:31:52 PM
@ Magluvin

How can a dc line on the scope remain on the sec. if the primary is pulsed? That would assume that something is still happening in the primary or within the coil as a whole, during the off cycles. To have a solid dc line along with lil hump pulses on the sec. would suggest that the coil is acting as a capacitor of sorts. And with so few windings, I find it hard to comprehend.

=============================

SM said in his videos that the Output from his TPUs was DC with AC Hash (pulses) riding on it.

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 04:38:16 PM
I would agree that the coil being made for Stefan should be a video in operation so he and we know that he is receiving a working model. It is the waiting for results of the claim that most, even Stefan, are becoming wary the longer things go on. I want to believe, but my enthusiasm has grown low.
I hope there is a vid soon.  If the pic of the light bulb hooked up were actually showing the filament hot, I would be convinced further, but we cannot tell if it is hot or not.
Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 04:44:18 PM
I hear ya, about what SM said. But I find it hard to settle on that till I see it, and that would be great if it is the case. A suspended high current dc component on a single secondary turn in a transformer. Absolutely incredible.
But its hard to stay optimistic.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 05:00:01 PM
Important

A summary to those are not up-to-date:

1. This device is NOT a regular current driven transformer. It is a voltage driven particle accelerator where not the vacuum is the electron carrier medium but an electric conductor.

2. The secondary behaves literally as a cap. If you let it discharged you loose significant energy.

3. The bulb is not on. That is the flash light. (Sorry I've forgotten to address to it)

4. Yes, Stefans device will be wound to 2x200VDC that I will refine to get 230VAC when the inverter is done.

5. On the one turn secondary. Yes it is incredibe and I am wondering that nobody paid attention to these significant details over years when they were walking around the same tree. also the current doesn't rise/drop when you remove the bulb. so I presume that Stefans device will produce min 500W.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 05:01:27 PM
Dont get me wrong here. I want this to work as many of you do.
But there is the possibility that this thread could be put into another thread box, if the claim isnt shown soon.
I get it that tony wants a perfect presentation, but the life of this thread will be determined by the criteria of Stefan. So toilet paper roll or plexi, the goal is to light that light bulb. Or show in time, input and output with scope shot on a known load. That is enough for anyone here without the tidy pretty.
Like I said, even just a nice pic of those things will help others get theirs up and running.
Heck, someone could get a pat on this by now, at least be pat pending by having it in the mail.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 05:14:12 PM
Well when its all done and we have a bunch of replications, we can all have a Particle Acceleration party.  =]

It would make an excellent battery charger.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 05:16:57 PM
Hey, thinking about particle accelerators. Na, couldnt be.  Could it?


Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 05:19:03 PM
But there is the possibility that this thread could be put into another thread box, if the claim isnt shown soon.

1. There is no deadline in my schedule. If is in yours will still not make any difference on whether I disclose it or not. Not this is the only website where I can get this opportunity.

2. Stefan was the one who requested to post the application and the blueprints, etc. in the meantime. I was not intended first as I was far from the goal (overheating, 2 TPUs, junk design, etc).

3. Everybody has the right to their own belief and will not change my ambition or purpose.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mflynn44 on January 10, 2010, 05:34:15 PM
If the primary creates a high speed rotating magnetic field the field will continue rotation between pulses and generate a DC output in the secondary. Is there a spin-up and spin-down effect in this device?


I have stayed out of it to give a chance for tony to finalize, but the same question comes to my mind. How can a dc line on the scope remain on the sec. if the primary is pulsed? That would assume that something is still happening in the primary or within the coil as a whole, during the off cycles. To have a solid dc line along with lil hump pulses on the sec. would suggest that the coil is acting as a capacitor of sorts. And with so few windings, I find it hard to comprehend.
Still awaiting a video

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 05:42:11 PM
If the primary creates a high speed rotating magnetic field the field will continue rotation between pulses and generate a DC output in the secondary. Is there a spin-up and spin-down effect in this device?

Yes. There is two way to do it. You give it a single big spike and many tiny ones to keep it rotating. The other solution is simpler: start slapping it up with higher voltage and when you reached the demanded output voltage just keep it up with the tiny slaps. Only a few mA you need to keep it spinning, not more.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 05:46:21 PM
I understand your position here. Sorry if it sounds bad.   It just sets us on edge as there was a point , what 3 days ago that some editing was being done but no vid in site. i voted to keep you up till the weekend before moving.
But a 2 min vid would be like a double dose of Tylenol er if they like Valium. It wont hurt your goal by showing even initial findings on a coil that you discovered this on.
I want you to get that prize ton. Everyone will be glad to see you receive it. Its just when things happen the way this is going, and many here are used to it, many times, they know the questions to ask and they know that if the claim is made, then That claim is all that need be presented. I dont want to associate you with Mylow, I dont know if you know of him.
If refining is necessary for a beyond the shadow of a doubt, then so beit. 
Good luck
Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 06:01:02 PM
For those who are in trouble with the thicker secondary winding:

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100283.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1100283.JPG)

I use fast bonding epoxy for the edge around to make a support for the next turns, thus they will not run off. Don't use superglue on very hard wire or if you have acrylic as ketone has.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mflynn44 on January 10, 2010, 06:05:09 PM
The secondary acts as if it were a capacitor but the actual mechanism is the rotating field  generating a continuous DC output which looks like capacitor action. Does this initial starting pulse complicate our electronic driving circuit? Also, for the most efficient device, Mannix will need to wind his coils in the reverse direction.



Yes. There is two way to do it. You give it a single big spike and many A ones to keep it rotating. The other solution is simpler: start slapping it up with higher voltage and when you reached the demanded output voltage just keep it up with the tiny slaps. Only a few mA you need to keep it spinning, not more.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 10, 2010, 06:13:34 PM
The secondary acts as if it were a capacitor but the actual mechanism is the rotating field  generating a continuous DC output which looks like capacitor action.

Yes, it is like a virtual capacitor.

Does this initial starting pulse complicate our electronic driving circuit?

No, those are 2 options. The second is easier to keep the circuitry simple. You only need variable input voltage but if you set it to a fix voltage will also work. But perhaps you will need to wait a couple of seconds while it spins up. (The JET-turbine effect that SM mentioned) Actually you will be able to vary the output with the frequency alteration but that will be not that efficient. (for now it is enough, you need the variable input only if you want the maximum from your device :) )

Also, for the most efficient device, Mannix will need to wind his coils in the reverse direction.

I don't know yet, we will find out. If his device won't work with the same winding on the southern hemisphere then it is a possibility.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 10, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
@ Tony,
I am about to wind my first coil after finishing my drive electronics and Arduino software.

When 45 degrees is used, the wires at the inner side of the tube have quite some distance from the tube itself.
Is that OK or should I stick the wires to the inner tube with tape or glue?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 06:37:28 PM
So are you saying that these spinning fields have a flywheel effect, as in inertial effects that are not restricted due to proper spacing? So in a standard solenoid coil, the proximity and direction of the wraps impedes the flywheel effect? Well if I remember correctly, Enik from the Land Of The Lost said the same thing!  just kidding =]  We need a laugh.
Well I have seen many coils lately that have some pacing between wires and maybe some crossings, depending on the direction the spiral happens.
Is it this flywheel effect what we have not noticed before? I remember many old photos of single conductor experiments, maybe that is where the real discoveries lie. Maybe these ideas were shut down back then.
Well that poses many ways of taking advantage of the effect. Like the eorbo and now the solid state.
It would be interesting to find the maximum diameter from the wire axis these fields have negligible effect. This would give us optimal spacing. One thing that still remains unknown is how the proximity of the inner primary affects the secondary or does it need be close like the outer.  Consider the effect of only the outer primary on the secondary , if the outer primary is made to be outside the secondary, the dc should be one direction, the polarity on the secondary would change if the secondary were wound outside. So the inner primary can be in close proximity, as long as it is on the proper side of the secondary in order to complement the outer primary objective. This all sounds so lost in space, but it makes a whole bunch of sense. And its easy to follow.
An investigation should be had on the primaries effects on itself as to how those lil flywheels are affecting the input.
Welp, I hope this is how the world spins. And by yer copper while you can.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 10, 2010, 06:49:16 PM
@ Mags,
I think what we try to do here is to replicate a physical effect that is not well understood yet.
If others can confirm this 'weird' behaviour, we might be on to something and many, many variations on the basic concept are needed to build up new insights and understanding.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 07:06:10 PM
 I agree Tes

Was just thinking of Tesla saying, "electrical inertia"  And that idea, spinning disks having inertial spin that continue current flow beyond the cut off of the original source, makes the bifi pancake coil come to life if made with a flat strip of copper, wound with proper spacing, can store a lot of energy. 


Anyways, I got my popcorn ready to pop.  =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 10, 2010, 08:07:27 PM
Tony maybe to help explain it more visual I made a small presentation so people don't get too confused. It can be found on this page:

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm (http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm)

But I recommend to download this .rar file for off-line viewing as well in case it goes down:

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/AAcoilPres.rar

Winding that many wire is bound to make one slip up especially if the tube is transparent and renders your vision fuzzy.

Edit: Fixed rar link.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gyulasun on January 10, 2010, 09:19:33 PM
Hi Broli,

Thanks for the nice animations! very good.

I cannot download the .rar file however, I get this error:

Not Found

The requested URL /NJ/AAcoilPres.rar was not found on this server.

(I use Firefox and Win XP).

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 10, 2010, 09:38:58 PM
@  Broli
Awesome instruction!
One issue I encountered during my coil implementation:
If you use exactly 45 degrees, then after 4 time up-down winding you end up exactly at the beginning angle. This means if you want to continue, you have to make one winding at 55 degrees or 35, which disturbs the patron.

In the picture below I am trying to visualize this issue.
Each rectangle represents 10 degrees of the circle.
You can find 36 rectangles in total, representing on circumference of 360 degrees.
The black lines are according an angle of exact 45 degrees.
The red lines use a 50 degree angle.

The red lines will use same angle every time while the black line needs once a 360 degrees a different angle, which disturbs the symmetry of the coil.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 10, 2010, 09:39:46 PM
Great animation, Broli.
However, your winding direction seems reversed from the prototypes. See picture here:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG
The wire go from left to right and from bottom to top on the OUTSIDE, then they go down on the INSIDE.
Isn't it ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 10, 2010, 09:44:37 PM
Tes
I has some fiddling to do once i got all the way around. I thought that an od no of top and bottom pivot points would help alter the transitions.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: h2ocommuter on January 10, 2010, 09:56:43 PM
I have not wound a coil yet but I have followed this thread completely.
My observation is this. When we start with a 45 deg. angle and keep it along the sides inner and outer but at top and bottom it is changed 90 deg.
It seems that with the cardboard pipe it really likes to flow around the corner in a more straight line.  45 to 45 to 45 angles.

two cents

h2ocommuter
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 10, 2010, 10:02:19 PM
Tes
I has some fiddling to do once i got all the way around. I thought that an od no of top and bottom pivot points would help alter the transitions.

Mags

The fiddling is want I encountered too, and that started me thinking.
It may be that the asymmetry is required on purpose, but I have feeling that symmetry would be better.

@Tony: how did you solve this yourselve? Did you adjust the angle every time you reached an occupied angle?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 10, 2010, 10:05:30 PM
@  Broli
 Awesome instruction!
 One issue I encountered during my coil implementation:
 If you use exactly 45 degrees, then after 4 time up-down winding you end up exactly at the beginning angle. This means if you want to continue, you have to make one winding at 55 degrees or 35, which disturbs the patron.
 
 In the picture below I am trying to visualize this issue.
 Each rectangle represents 10 degrees of the circle.
 You can find 36 rectangles in total, representing on circumference of 360 degrees.
 The black lines are according an angle of exact 45 degrees.
 The red lines use a 50 degree angle.
 
 The red lines will use same angle every time while the black line needs once a 360 degrees a different angle, which disturbs the symmetry of the coil.
 
 
Yes that is correct  I did not hook end of the first winding to the start of the second but it should not disturb the pattern too much, 1/4 of the outside wires would be shifted 10°. I would be happy enough if this gave some OU maybe later on we will discover more efficient winding combinations and so on.  For instance I discovered that if you use 40° instead of 45° you must rotate the pipe twice before reaching the starting point. Perhaps this can be expanded on later on to use 1 single wire that goes 9 times around before coming back at the starting point. This would have no "artificial" shifting issue. This would need some basic discrete math.
 
Great animation, Broli.
However, your winding direction seems reversed from the prototypes. See picture here:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG)
The wire go from left to right and from bottom to top on the OUTSIDE, then they go down on the INSIDE.
Isn't it ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the winding direction doesn't matter, if you flip the coil upside down then it will have the "correct winding". Just like looking at a clock from its back will make it go counter clockwise from your point of view. What's more important is the secondary winding direction and polarity.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 10, 2010, 10:31:21 PM
@ Broli,
 :D If you flip it upside down, it still looks the same. Try it.

I think what you have there is the model for the southern emisphere  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 10, 2010, 10:34:50 PM
Hi all,

         I remember agentgates saying direction of wind doesn't matter, it just changs the polarity on the secondary terminal ends...can i get confirmation on that.


@broli,
          Nice animation!

update: i noticed upon winding the first primary that when i set it down, it resonated rather nicely...i wound it tight...the resonance was that of a guitar strings type,i wonder..if it's tightly wound harmonics are doing something to this here? eg.- tuning each wind to a certain frequency :o
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 10, 2010, 10:55:03 PM
@ Broli,
 :D If you flip it upside down, it still looks the same. Try it.

I think what you have there is the model for the southern emisphere  ;D ;)

Yes you're right about that, my brain must have gone fuzzy :p. But I don't think the hemisphere thing matters as it would mean it won't function in space where there's no south or noth. But I think it matters efficiency wise, perhaps direction A accelerates the electrons while direction B decelerates them?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 10, 2010, 10:58:17 PM
@ Altair

If you flip it upside down, it still looks the same. Try it.  I think what you have there is the model for the southern hemisphere.

=======================================================================================

If you watch this video of SM's Model 1, you will see the VOLTAGE Output go DOWN when he Flips it Over.  He says the reason is that the SPIN STOPS when it is flipped over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 10, 2010, 11:06:10 PM
@ Altair

If you flip it upside down, it still looks the same. Try it.  I think what you have there is the A for the southern hemisphere.

=====================================

If you watch this video of SM's Model 1, you will see the VOLTAGE Output go DOWN when he Flips it Over.  He says the reason is that the SPIN STOPS when it is flipped over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk)

A lot of SM's talks and demos should be taken with a grain of salt. I believe a lot of his parts were thrown in as smoke and mirrors. To trick the observer into thinking they are crucial and mysterious. Like the magnet pony trick and this upside down trick. SM wanted money, and when got it he disappeared swiftly. Such people are not even worth talking about in my book. This kind of technology should benefit and make mankind independent not introduce more greed and corruption.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 10, 2010, 11:31:23 PM
Hi everyone,

I decided to start a topic to help new or existing user to prepare a video for YouTube.

Please see here and I ask you respect my posting requirements: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8628.msg221296#new

Please direct anyone that may need assistance there as it may save them much time. Even if you think you know you maybe surprised with the results.

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 10, 2010, 11:32:15 PM
Here's a formula for calculating the distance between winds:
                                                                                      S=r0   where: S=arclength
                                                                                                          r = radius
                                                                                                          0=degrees but in radians( so you have to convert to radians)

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 12:26:21 AM
Broli, Fatbird,
it would be plausible that turning the device upside down would alter its characteristics, because even if the winding still LOOKS the same, the current is now reversed and probaly affects the aether vortex. To visualize, just wind one turn of wire around a toroid core, and imagine the current spiraling down the wire. You have to consider the rotation of the wire itself, AND also the rotational direction it has to follow around the core.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 01:14:59 AM
@ teslaalset,
indeed it doesn't work.
When you have done one full turn around the core, we should be exactly 3 notches away from our start position.
The 2 free notches will be used later for primary 2 and pri 3.
So to get back at Pri 1, from this picture:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070265.JPG
Tony has divided the core in 12 sections, and by following one wire, we can see that one turn (one up-and-down triangle) takes 4 sections. That means he has 3 complete turns of wire for each revolution of the core. Not 4 as in broli's simulation. (But I doubt it makes any difference.)
Anyway, for this to work, I think there should be a total number of notches that correspond to three times the spacing required for one turn of wire, minus 2.
So in our case, if one turn of wire needs 36 notches, that makes 36 x 3= 108. Minus 2= 106 notches.

I have difficulty understanding the relationships, being mathematically challenged already  :D

But I have wound the standard (Tony's design) core of 108 notches with one primary and space left for 3 more (for a 4 phase unit) and it fits perfectly. The wire makes only 2 turns around the core for each revolution, and needs 56 notches for each turn. There is a total of 27 turns to complete a revolution of the core. I attach a pic. Note that the height of the core needs to be higher in this case to retain the 90 deg angle of the wire crossings. So for a dia of 4", the height is 3.25".

Now back to our 3-phase problem, if you can figure out the exact number of notches needed, that would really be fantastic.
I think I'll try one with 106 notches just to try to figure it out.

Cheers.
@  Broli
Awesome instruction!
One issue I encountered during my coil implementation:
If you use exactly 45 degrees, then after 4 time up-down winding you end up exactly at the beginning angle. This means if you want to continue, you have to make one winding at 55 degrees or 35, which disturbs the patron.

In the picture below I am trying to visualize this issue.
Each rectangle represents 10 degrees of the circle.
You can find 36 rectangles in total, representing on circumference of 360 degrees.
The black lines are according an angle of exact 45 degrees.
The red lines use a 50 degree angle.

The red lines will use same angle every time while the black line needs once a 360 degrees a different angle, which disturbs the symmetry of the coil.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 01:24:14 AM
I forgot to mention that once you have wound all the turns for one primary, you should arrive exactly at your starting point, the same notch that you used to begin the wind.
That is if everything is correct, of course...

Also, if you're using acrylic tube, just sand it inside & out so it looses its transparency and becomes much easier to work with.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: chasson321 on January 11, 2010, 01:31:14 AM
I have stayed out of it to give a chance for tony to finalize, but the same question comes to my mind. How can a dc line on the scope remain on the sec. if the A is pulsed? That would assume that something is still happening in the primary or within the coil as a whole, during the off cycles. To have a solid dc line along with lil hump pulses on the sec. would suggest that the coil is acting as a capacitor of sorts. And with so few windings, I find it hard to comprehend.
Still awaiting a video

Mags

Possibly it can be explained by the same effect the John Bedini shows in this video at around the 4 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 11, 2010, 02:06:52 AM
@altair: I used the parameters Tony used on his coil, unless I'm wrong. I don't like people or myself to give this a personal twist as we still do not have a working unit. I would stick to Tony's until we have a working replica, then you can go nuts with the modifications.

I have updated the presentation and rar file on page 21. I added some renditions that show what happens to a part of the coil if you jump to the next winding after one complete winding. As you can see there isn't any crossing just some extra space due to the jump. From the inside everything remains evenly spaced. So this isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 02:25:17 AM
Hi broli,
it wasn't my intention to give this a "personal twist" at all.
My goal is just to find the correct number of notches needed so that the coil comes out even, and perfect.  I do not consider this as a modification.
Anyway I'm still amazed at your rendering of the coil. Outstanding work.

I'd like Tony to chip in and confirm if the number of turns of the primary per revolution of the core is 3 or 4 ?  Tony's picture shows 3, and your rendering shows 4.  ???

Cheers
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 11, 2010, 02:43:27 AM
Hello

       @broli   ...i think your diagram might be off with the arclength of the triangle being 45 degrees, i have one full 45 degree triangle upright at 120 degrees arclength making it a 60 degree arc angle from bottom to apex so three upright triangles for a revolution around the core btw...nice diagrams
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 11, 2010, 03:08:02 AM
Hello

       @broli   ...i think your diagram might be off with the arclength of the triangle being 45 degrees, i have one full 45 degree triangle upright at 120 degrees arclength making it a 60 degree arc angle from bottom to apex so three upright triangles for a revolution around the core btw...nice diagrams

Yes I believe you are correct, the angle should be 60° not 45°. This renders the entire presentation absolute. What tony was saying about 45° had nothing to do with the degrees of the cycle but was meant for the length of the tube. That is the length should be such that the wires are 45° degrees with the center line of the tube. Nothing beats learning something the hard way though  ;D .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 11, 2010, 03:14:51 AM
@broli
         yes if you were to go four times around the core, it would give you a 54.3 degree angle for the triangle rise...assuming that the length of core was calcd for 45 length
                    L= ( d x 3.14)/6
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 03:34:28 AM
@all

Thank for the reply Agentgates

To those interested i posted the pictures i made from my 5 min coil test on a jt circuit . The angle is not 45 but will try it . But based on many things i think 15 is better i will have to see for my self.


http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg221375#msg221375
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 11, 2010, 04:22:33 AM
Tomorrow I might redo the presentation with the correct parameters. But I will probably use no tube meaning just like the inside the wires go in a straight line on the outside instead of curve around a tube. This gives the interesting illusion of a curved cylinder like has been mentioned before.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: supersam on January 11, 2010, 05:07:33 AM
to all,

it might be a good time to revisit 124875.

lol
ps:  keep up  the good work
 ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 11, 2010, 05:36:58 AM
Quote from: altair link=topic=8586.msg221344#msg221344 A=1263169454
I forgot to mention that once you have wound all the turns for one primary, you should arrive exactly at your starting point, the same notch that you used to begin the wind.
That is if everything is correct, of course...

Also, if you're using acrylic tube, just sand it inside & out so it looses its transparency and becomes much easier to work with.
Thanks altair,

I have screwd up exactly like that, my wires of the single primary come out 120 deg from each other .

sometimes simple things are not , untill they are
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 11, 2010, 07:04:23 AM
Hello all,

yes, when the TPU is flipped upside down the particles are not spinning anymore and the voltage on the bulb dropps.

SM was right.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 10:40:27 AM
@all

Here is a picture of my new coil . Still no DC .

I will look into driving it with more juice , not just 1.5 volts .

I tried it as a 2 phase , got only 10 volts , pull push 82 volts.



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 11, 2010, 11:03:56 AM
Tomorrow I might redo the presentation with the correct parameters. But I will probably use no tube meaning just like the inside the wires go in a straight line on the outside instead of curve around a tube. This gives the interesting illusion of a curved cylinder like has been mentioned before.

This may actually be a good point in the overall design.
Using a tube as placeholder for the wire results in a curved cylinder only at the inside but not on the outside.
One of the future experiments would be to implement the coil just as you draw them in the two pictures.
One way to do that is to use a construction as depicted below.
You could use a reel for this.

But........let's first replicate the original to show there is a real effect
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 11, 2010, 01:32:23 PM
@ Otto
Are you testing Agentgates coil ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 11, 2010, 01:36:46 PM
Hello all,

yes, when the TPU is flipped upside down the particles are not spinning anymore and the voltage on the bulb dropps.

SM was right.

Otto

Why, do you have a working TPU? This forum probably has the most TPU talk on the whole internet but it's one big pool of speculation. Noone ever has reproduced the results and shared them, it's always "TPU solved!" or "My working TPU!" but after countless of posts nothing is produced at all. So as far as SM goes and his TPU tricks it might be a load of horse dung before it can be confirmed with a real working replication.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 11, 2010, 01:54:40 PM
Hello all,

@broli

no I dont have a working TPU in this moment.

I have only coils that are only working when flipped up side down.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 02:31:37 PM
OK, I managed to find a workable solution to get the winding equally spaced on the core. I put 105 slots around the rim.
That gives a total of 35 turns for the primary, and 3 turns for each revolution around the core. There are no empty slots.
The wire ends exactly on the starting position, and there are 2 empty slots between each wire, for the second and the third primaries.
Each turn of the primary takes 36 slots, so when you have made one revolution (3 turns), your wire arrives 3 slots further than where you begun.

I would have liked to find a way to get 36 turns for each primary, but haven't yet.
If somebody can figure it out, let us know !

I'm attaching a wiring pattern as a DXF file for those who can use it. Sorry I can't create a graphics image with the programs I have here.  >:(

Edit:  No apparently I can't attach a DXF file here.  >:(
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 02:35:11 PM
Forgot the pic...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 02:50:02 PM
So I was correct in there needs to be an odd no of slots. Good work Altair
I have not done anything since my first coil, tied it, no go ,was told that the secondary was wrong. And with no others being able to get theirs to work, I am failing to believe at this point.  I am actually getting further from the computer than I have been since this started.
So it is all up to tonytone
Hopefully he gets his working

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 02:55:40 PM
@all

I made one at exactly 45 degree , and got 18 turns before hitting the same location. So i made two phase of 18 turns.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 11, 2010, 02:58:47 PM
@altair
zip the file first  a pain ah?

Tony has used 36 , you can see the extra step in his acrylic coil, some do 6 steps, some 7

I have rewound 2 more times and in reverse still not seeing run up.

30 volts 2.1 amps with 1hkz 50 % duty cycle the current is always the same , lots of heat in the coil but if i just run the coil with 2.1 amps by limiting the supply I get the same heat.
spikes for sure, just like any tpu config.
Tony has current much lower than I can achieve
the only difference is my .25 primary wire where his is .19

if i reduce the drive i do get rf pulses but this is gate oscillation it also happens with just dc level(no pulse)

Best to wait for more detailed info from Tony for me , he is getting something, of that im sure.
perhaps 2 stages or more  are vital

Does any body have dc out there? other than little  spikes

I,m surely doing something very wrong ..but what  arrggghhh!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 02:59:21 PM
Possibly it can be explained by the same effect the John Bedini shows in this video at around the 4 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw

Hey Chasson
That makes sense but that would also be a particular freq to lock in that node, except this coil we are told can work at many freq. suggesting that spins on the winding have a flywheel effect and the spacing helps to maintain inertial movement due to other windings not slowing the spins down as we normally see in a standard coil. I even see that an iron core or other could slow the spinning. But thus far, I am only seeing it in my head, and it may not be so.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 11, 2010, 03:10:46 PM
Wow
Look at all these men working together!!

Look at all the Talent that is here!!

Good stuff [actually there is no single word to describe this!!]

""That's"" worth the price of admission!!, no matter what.

Thanks Tony and @All

Chet
PS,
You MEN are making History.!!

Nick would Love this
Tesla that is.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 03:18:22 PM
@ Tony,
I am about to wind my first coil after finishing my drive electronics and Arduino software.

If you have an Arduino code cleaned up, please don't hold it back as mine is still in the baby phase. I screwd up the primary on my coil (damaged) so it will tak a few hours while I clean it up rewind it, glue it, etc.

When 45 degrees is used, the wires at the inner side of the tube have quite some distance from the tube itself.
Is that OK or should I stick the wires to the inner tube with tape or glue?

Yes that is fine. As for my theory that distance gives some (psec) acceleration inside the primary that you can't measure with ordinary devices but in this case it can be important. If it was closer to the secondary would cause the opposite that you'd identify as higher back EMF. Later we will look into this one as well.

So are you saying that these spinning fields have a flywheel effect, as in inertial effects that are not restricted due to proper spacing?

I say that you can't observe a strong inertia if you don't leave enough space between the secondary. If you decrease the spacing you will need to increase the current.

In normal cases electrons flow in a wire in a spinning manner. Since they have own mass and struggling to push each other apart they will spin. The spinning movement will force them to the edge of the wire due to the centrifugal force (spinning mass = centrigugal force).

Now if you get these wires close to each other you get the electrons slow down as there is electron flow in the next turn as well. Imagine two wheels spinning very fast in the same direction (e.g. clockwise) and you get them closer to each other. When they are close enough they can cause enough disturbance in the air to get each others slowing down. The worst thing you can do if you let them to touch each other as you will need to pump the power in to keep them spinning. To translate it to the wires case, there is some electromagnetic field around the wires. If you get them too close to each other the also spinning electromagnetic field between them will overlap each other and create a slight Lorentz force. This is bad, as you will see it on the scope as oscillation after your spike that is a LOSS.

Now, e.g. if you have 5 turns of secondary, you can think of them as wheels under each other and you start slapping them from the top to the bottom with your hand. Always from the top to the bottom. First you need "punch" them to get them spin up but later you will only need to preserve their speed. (remember: spinning electrons, mass, centrifugal force. Same deal.)

Tony maybe to help explain it more visual I made a small presentation so people don't get too confused.

That is amazing broli! Many thanks.

The fiddling is want I encountered too, and that started me thinking.
It may be that the asymmetry is required on purpose, but I have feeling that symmetry would be better.

@Tony: how did you solve this yourselve? Did you adjust the angle every time you reached an occupied angle?

I think this is what you mean. :)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG)

I remember agentgates saying direction of wind doesn't matter, it just changs the polarity on the secondary terminal ends...can i get confirmation on that.

Yes it is true, this is what I said but some fellas from the southern hemisphere noticed something about it that can be important.

A possible reason that I didn't think through before:

If you pull out the plug from the bath and drain the water you can see a vortex spinning down the drain. This can be important as thin liquid particles are sensitive for inertia. Gravity is not a one way force straight down, but a fast spinning vortex and a sum of many ferromagnetic fields pointing down towards Earth's iron core. Since the iron core is spinning faster than the crust and has magnetic fields it causes disturbance on the gravitational field. Some sort of distortion that we observe on the liquid as spin. Since liquid particles are very light, they can catch up to the spinning fiel and form a vortex that we can observe visually. This spin is the opposite on the southern hemisphere.

I presume that due to the relatively small weight of the electrons the direction of their spinning might be important. I will certainly post some new pictures with polarity and winding directions to make it more clear.

BTW the same thing is observable on storm cyclones/anticyclones on norther/southern hemisphere as they can also form a vortex when they are trying to catch up to the gravitaional vortex.

(If you drop a very light object, e.g feather in strong vacuum it will still spin.)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 11, 2010, 03:46:54 PM
If you have an Arduino code cleaned up, please don't hold it back as mine is still in the baby phase. I screwd up the primary on my coil (damaged) so it will tak a few hours while I clean it up rewind it, glue it, etc.

I can make my hex files available, no problem.
The model I am using is the Duemlanove (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDuemilanove (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDuemilanove))
Note, that I am programming the Atmel using assembler, to enable even the shortest pulses.
Minimum pulse length is 125 ns. I use that for other purposes.
The bootloader C-interpreter doesn't allow for very efficient compiling.
We can discuss what will be needed. I will fire up my setup this evening. Fingers crossed.

I think this is what you mean. :)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG)

Yes, exactly. So, you have an asymmetry in your primary winding. Good to know.
Mine has full symmetry winding as a starter, maybe I'll change it to the original one after my first experiments.

Thanks for the accurate feedback again.

p.s. picture from your coil attached to preserve the info, just in case
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 03:56:56 PM
@agentgates

You made one with 36 turn coil , i wish i could make one also , could you give me the height and diameter , We need to make a ratio of it so people can make them with 36 turns.

Mark

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 04:08:22 PM
Some important information for those who were in trouble with receiving the shown spikes. The following can be useful to find error:

1. Set your scope trigger to the output signal (first without load) and single shot capture, not continous.
2. Fire one primary coil at a time.
3. Make sure you use current limiter resistor on it (15-27ohms depending on your configuration) if you dont want to cook your coil/fet/transistor.
4. Input current should never go above 500mA as it will cause unnecessary heat and loss, input voltage above ~5V should show you that hump growing out the straight line. (length 500ns, but ignore, you will not need higher frequency)
5. When you have the hump, you can connect it to your pulse generator and set it to a low freq range, like 1kHz or below. (the scope shot I sent recently was taken at 87 Hz/50% and 3 phase, that is why we got those 2 more humps jumping out rapidly)
6. If still nothing, change polarity on the primary.
7. Mind that you put the scope probe's POSITIVE is on the POSITIVE output of your coil and you are triggering the positive edge.
8. If still nothing, check the winding direction and compare it with my photos. Left handed on both.
9. Check the spacing and that each turn on a single primary has done the 360 degrees with 10 degrees spacing.
10. Check the spaces between the secondary.
11. If still nothing, you are probably using soft wires and/or plastic covering on it that increases the space DRAMMATICALLY between the Primary/Secondary. Remember the intersecting area should be as small as possible but also as close as possible between primary/secondary.
12. If still nothing, remove the secondary and put a SINGLE turn of it on and get through this list again.
13. If still nothing, take a walk in the nature and watch birds for a few hours. Then come back and go through this list again. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gotoluc on January 11, 2010, 04:10:23 PM
Hello all,

@broli

no I dont have a working TPU in this moment.

I have only coils that are only working when flipped up side down.

Otto

I don't about everyone here but I would love to see a video of just that effect alone :)

Can you make a video for us Otto?

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 04:17:47 PM
Would it not make sense to just have the 3 primaries in series? I see from the beginning that the size of the primary keeps getting thinner as to reduce the ohms to reduce load current.
But we really dont know for sure that the spacing is optimum. Where do we have info to determine that criteria? Maybe it need an inch between windings. Maybe an inch and a half. 

If anyone has the equipment to test, a single primary, or even just a length of wire should show a continued dc output after the pulse is removed. If what is being said about the dc on the secondary is so.
Now if we confirm that there is a continuation of dc after the pulse, then we lay down a second length of wire next to the first and see what distance causes the inertial dc to be lessened. This will determine the spacing.
A good scope should be able to show what is happening in the wire after the pulse is removed. If it works at 100hz to what ever hz then the effect should be clear in the test I have laid out. And then string another wire across that lengths of primary at various angles to test the affect on the secondary to get a proper angle settings.
Again, at 100hz or 1000 hz, a scope should indicate what is happening.
I dont have a scope. But these are the experiments I would have gone for as I stated earlier in this thread.

Magthinks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 04:19:54 PM
@Mk1

I don't know what you mean under 36 turns. In my interpretation, when you finished with one primary coil, you will have to see 36 wires inside and outside. altogether 72 - to be more specific. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 04:26:03 PM
@Mk1

I don't know what you mean under 36 turns. In my interpretation, when you finished with one primary coil, you will have to see 36 wires inside and outside. altogether 72 - to be more specific. :)

I have made one with exact 45 degree angle , and made slots at each 10 degree , but my height vs diameter is different so i could not put 36 turn at the 18 turn it got to the same location then the first turn. So 2 coils of 18 turns at 10 degree of separation total 36.

So the height vs the diameter , needs to be perfect .

So my question is what is the height and diameter of your tube.

If you already gave that info , just say so i will find it.

Mark

thank again for your time.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 04:43:15 PM
Absolutely Mk1
The definition of 45 deg is just the wire angle. If the height if the tube varies, 45 deg angle marks on the tube will only get the 90 deg crossings at 1 particular height per diam of tube.
Ya know what, lol I do have a scope but its a lil tiny hand held from radio shack. I only used it to check signals in car audio. I bet it can show something in the tests I prescribed. I will give it a go later. A pancake coil with 1 in spacing should be out of bounds of tonys spec and Ill see what it do. =]  The scope is 20 mhz max so I should see something.
Magscopes
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 11, 2010, 04:49:18 PM
So my question is what is the height and diameter of your tube.

If you already gave that info , just say so i will find it.

Mark, have a look at page 1 of this thread.
80 mm diameter, 70 mm height for the single primary coil version
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 04:54:51 PM
Mark, have a look at page 1 of this thread.
80 mm diameter, 70 mm hight for the single primary coil version

Thanks , i did but i was under the impression that those specs was one without the 45 degree angle , and he started a new one on a different core.

What are the chances he got the right height on the first try.

Mark 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 05:02:49 PM
And if it is so, then if you have a coil that pushes dc beyond the pulse duration, put one in series with a cap and as you send pulses to that series circuit, the cap should see more input than from the pulses while the pulse is on.
This Tesla stuff keeps coming to mind. Impulse dc, and we are doing that here. Amplifying power, and we are supposedly doing that here.  Is it possible to just build a coil with optimum spacing between all windings and get a continuous flow from the other side from just a 50% duty cycle pulse? I would have to say that a load need be present to get the current through the segregated coil. But imagine if that is it,  and a bifi series wound with spacing really does hold a lot of energy. The bifi that is connected in the center as to have every other winding has opposite current flow, their inertia will all be spinning with each other not against so it may have a further advantage to "dc continuation" Its still a bit fairy tale to me, but you should have read some of my assumptions as to how the Whipmag worked at Fizzx, yet never seen it run.  =]
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 05:04:40 PM
I agree Mk
tonys new coil seems way off that, It seems less tall and wider.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 05:15:46 PM
@Lindsay

Use current limiter and please read the post of mine on error checking.

@All

I posted a formula a few days ago when somebody posted thos nice 3D images first on how to calculate the tube length.

for 45 degrees:
l = (d x PI)/6

"l" gives you the length to cut.

BTW: the importance of angle is not that vital, we just want to focus on precise job to minimise errors
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 11, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
@Lindsay

Use current limiter and please read the post of mine on error checking.

@All

I posted a formula a few days ago when somebody posted thos nice 3D images first on how to calculate the tube length.

for 45 degrees:
l = (d x PI)/6

l gives you the length.

BTW: the importance of angle is not that vital, we just want to focus on precise job to minimise errors

Tony any updates on your progress since your last failure? Do you need any arduino help or something?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: SPP-48 on January 11, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
@MK1

I believe that the coil height works out to be the coil circumference divided by 4. It worked for me.



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 05:42:24 PM
@broli

I didn't touch the Arduino yet, just set it to 3 phase 120 degrees out-of-phase and 87Hz. It is not a tricky freq, just this is what the arduino gave first, so I didn't mess with it yet.

I had to rewind Stefan's coil with secondary first and primary after as the secondary is very thick to bend it on thin wires without causing damage. Unfortunatelly I did, so I removed the primary, cleaned the tube and glueing the secondary on the acrylic right now to make sure it doesn move. In the meantime I went ot town to buy some materials have depleated.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 05:54:41 PM
This Tesla stuff keeps coming to mind. Impulse dc, and we are doing that here. Amplifying power, and we are supposedly doing that here.  Is it possible to just build a coil with optimum spacing between all windings and get a continuous flow from the other side from just a 50% duty cycle pulse?

That is the main goal. Get the most out of the smallest device without back EMF and other problems. I want to make it as continous as possible without ugly noises. If I reach that stage then we can presume that it performs on the maximum with the lowest intake.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 06:19:29 PM
Tony any updates on your progress since your last failure? Do you need any arduino help or something?

@broli, if you could help me out with variable pulses on the arduino that would be handy to speed up the things. But if you don't have time, don't bother, I'll sort it out when the juicy gluing job's over.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 06:39:17 PM
About the height/diameter ratio,
if you have a winding that makes 3 turns for each revolution of the core, the height should be .55 of the diameter.
For 2 turns per revolution, it's .80
This includes a little extra for the depth of the slots.

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 11, 2010, 06:43:35 PM
@Mannix,
I was out of time, and had to leave, so didn't think it thru...
Here it is.


@altair
zip the file first  a pain ah?


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 11, 2010, 06:50:48 PM
From what I see and understand is;

If you want 2 or more primaries then you require an even number of slots (top and bottom), you can place multiple turns over the same wire if you want to increase wire length. The second or subsequent primaries would start on the next slot over and will never end up in the same slot as a prior primary.

If you want a single primary then you will need a odd number of slots (top and bottom), this will allow the winding pattern to eventually come back to itself.

he main issue is determining the height versus the length, this is simple geometry, to get a 45 degree angle the height and length in this should be equal, the height needs to be measured from the end of the slot since this will give the most accurate angle.

The rest, determining the slot spacing will rely on the circumference and the height and the required spacing between wires.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 11, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
Regarding to this particular 45 degree angle requirement:

       RADIUS = HEIGHT


Minde

Edit EXEMPLE:

                    Given:                   Radius = 2.25"        H=R=2.25"
                                               
                                                In this case 1/6th of circle perimeter will be P=(2*PI*R)/6=2.355"
                                                According to phytagoren theorem C(sq)=A(sq)+B(sq)
                                                C(sq)=P(sq)+6.25"
                                                C=3.43" ( single wire strand length top-to-bottom @ 45 degrees )
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mflynn44 on January 11, 2010, 08:48:37 PM

Just some thoughts about the geometry of Agentgates device.

Many people here have built devices, some with rotating magnetic fields, that have voltage available at the output but no power. One basic problem has always been power out.

I think the geometry of Agentgates device combined with the pulsed input is creating a complex rotating magnetic field. The field is rotating in a circular motion around the device but also an up and down wave motion across the secondary according to the pulsed input. This cutting across the secondary by the flux lines is what was missing in other devices and is where the power comes from.

Agentgates device will work with a single primary but three or four primaries are better and the pulse rate should have control over the power out.


Quote from: Magluvin link=topic=8586.msg221492#msg221492 A=1263223067
Would it not make sense to just have the 3 primaries in series? I see from the beginning that the size of the primary keeps getting thinner as to reduce the ohms to reduce load current.
But we really dont know for sure that the spacing is optimum. Where do we have info to determine that criteria? Maybe it need an inch between windings. Maybe an inch and a half. 

If anyone has the equipment to test, a single primary, or even just a length of wire should show a continued dc output after the pulse is removed. If what is being said about the dc on the secondary is so.
Now if we confirm that there is a continuation of dc after the pulse, then we lay down a second length of wire next to the first and see what distance causes the inertial dc to be lessened. This will determine the spacing.
A good scope should be able to show what is happening in the wire after the pulse is removed. If it works at 100hz to what ever hz then the effect should be clear in the test I have laid out. And then string another wire across that lengths of primary at various angles to test the affect on the secondary to get a proper angle settings.
Again, at 100hz or 1000 hz, a scope should indicate what is happening.
I dont have a scope. But these are the experiments I would have gone for as I stated earlier in this thread.

Magthinks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 11, 2010, 08:58:36 PM
@agentgates

Thanks for the answer , i will still have to figure it out , my math is rusty . ??? it looks Chinese to me lol

@spp-48 @altair @minde

Thank for the answer , but i got that far , the problem with your answers , is that you need to make 36 lap at 10 degrees apart , but not got over the same path twice . You will have to see what i mean , it need a offset of about 10 degrees at the 18 turn to not double it self .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: szaxx on January 11, 2010, 09:25:22 PM
36 slots wound at 45 degs the end of the first loop is 1 slot further along than the start position. when filled ,1 coil, the ends meet up. Is this correct as it fits perfectly.

steve.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 11, 2010, 09:44:02 PM
Thanks for the answer , i will still have to figure it out , my math is rusty . ??? it looks Chinese to me lol

What is the diameter of your device? Multiply it with 3.14 and divide the whole thing with 6. :)

PI= 3.14 :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 11, 2010, 09:57:29 PM
Hi,
I have moved this topic back to the TPU board until
a real proof with a video that shows output power is bigger than input power is posted.
Then the thread will be moved again back to the "apply for the OverUnity Prize"
section.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 11, 2010, 10:48:44 PM
Some quick results from my first measurements.

First picture is my present coil

Second picture is the voltage measured over a 33 ohm resistor load at the secondairy coil.
The signal is symmetric around 0 volt. Top signal is the inverted input voltage pulse.
(top signal is the inverted pulse from the arduino signal generator, my fet driver is inverting type)

Third picture is the detail of the second picture.
Pulse time is 3 us, period is 25 us
Current pulse is therefore 3 us.

[update]
Primary coil resistance is 3.2 ohm, I used 0.2 mm thick wire.
I used 32 ohm in series with the primairy coil.
Current throught the primairy coil is about 300 mA
Voltage swing over the primary is about 1 Volt.

Voltage swing over the 32 ohm at the secondairy coil is 300 mV peak/peak
Secondairy coil wire is 1.52 mm thick

Lower frequency / larger pulse lenghs result in exactly the same edge response.

@ Tony: Did you connect the secondairy coil to both ground and signal of your probe, or did you connect the ground of the probe to a different point in the circuit?

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 11, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Here is something I just whipped up on a hunch. If the inner primary doesnt need to be in contact with the secondary, then this is all that needs to be done.  It has 50 crossing contact points to the secondary and less wasted wire used in webbing. Havnt hooked it up yet. But it should follow the same principle. 1 centimeter between primary windings.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: dani1 on January 11, 2010, 10:54:39 PM
Hi,
If the secondary coil will be our holder of the particle generator current. you have to use the same current in this second coil again and again. this can be archived by feeding the second coil and then cut off the source and recycle the current (joule thief?). a third coil wound orthogonal over the secondary can grab the cycling current.


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 11, 2010, 11:00:52 PM
@teslaalset
well done.
What is your volts/div for input and output ?

Looks like a typical capacitive coupling.

The interesting things will only happen,
if you go with your input frequency higher into the
same range as the Ringing frequency of the coils.

Then please set it to these resonance frequencies
and you will probably have a contineous big sine wave and
measure the output voltages on different output loads.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 11, 2010, 11:07:08 PM
@Stefan,
I've updated my data above.
Indeed looks like a capacitive effect.
I need to catch some sleep now, tomorrow I will report further
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 12:06:43 AM
Did this thread just die?

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: beboszek on January 12, 2010, 12:09:22 AM
Hi all
I made a replication of first Tony's setup with tube 80mm diameter, 70mm high, wires 0.4mm and 0.8mm respectively. Driving it with a circuit shown, achieved same no-results as "teslaalset". Tried different frequencies (up to few MHz), voltages, secondary windings, primary polarizations, TPU orientation, with load and without...
I attached scope shot as well.
In some few days I will try with another, better coil driver.
Good luck

Marek Fertała
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 12:20:56 AM
Diss is not good bebo.    :-\    Thanks for sharing.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 12:49:10 AM
Quick update!

This morning I tried a few more things , 15ohm limit resistor in series with power in,
still nothing but little spikes... so i zoomed in a bit and at a certain vertical resolution , suddenly i could see the massive pulse..that was much greater and wider than the previous range should have seen . I then switched to another cro and found that i couldnot see it at all. Alot  more fiddling on my part will be required to see why its not visible untill a certain point this is weird and exciting again.

mesauremant error?  I dont think so but it is the first time I have not been able to zoom in and have it make no sense.
It doesn't seem to be dc but it aslo doesn't diminish when a globe is put across it.

the ps current now remains the same and low .
@bebozek, I had the same results as you , try cahanging the volt range on the cro, zoom in an out , change triggering I dont know just keep looking.

This is getting very very interesting.I dont know WTF is happening here
still more questions than answers YAY!

IT is very important that I/we find out why I had so much difficulty seeing this pulse.

One thing I did find in the 10 minutes this morning  is that the rise time of the switch pulse is important

my main cro is a 400 mhz analouge tektroniks . I have 3 others, and many probes

More soon

@ Tony, thanks for you patience, though kicking and screaming we will get there!

Edit .. Whatever it is It is NOT frequency dependant.. Just like Tony said so dont bother changing frequency to see it ..
@ Stephan it is not  what I wanted to believe either

That walk with nature is a vital step
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 12, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
Hi Mannix,
only the area below the pulse which is higher than zero counts, as this integrates to real output power.
If it is just only a needle spike pulse and all other time zero, it will not bring you much output power and
will not run your lights.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 01:09:10 AM
I do agree with Stefan as to finding the resonance of the primary, but that freq may be very high due to the length of the wire and no of turns. Or do we need to find the resonance of the secondary?  I only say this as 100 hz would be far from being close. I dont have a sig. gen. I will have to use a 555, measure the freq and apply to my primary. I didnt measure my primary for thickness but I assume less than or about .1 mm. Thin like thread. I will measure the ohms tonight and work on the circuit. This tube should provide similar results with 45 deg crossings without wondering what the web is doing, and if this shows nothing then try a prescribed coil with the inner primary touching the secondary.
Even if this doesnt work there is maybe some things to learn about the spaced windings and how cross wound coils react, even if the crosses dont touch.  Its fairly easy to make these things. They dont have a 1000 turns. And there are many combination's and angles to try. Teslas coils seem to be this way with space between the windings, and I believe it is for capacitance reduction in tuning. But maybe something else.
But resonance seems like a factor that is going to play a part. But if tonys end product does as he says, then resonance , as we know it will be ac, and tonys is a continuation of dc, which could still be a resonance effect, but a resonance of the spinners vibrations that keep them spinning in 1 direction. Dem unknown lil spinners.

Magthinks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 01:18:00 AM
Mannix, hey loved the show when I was a kid. =]

Can you push up the freq to allow the large on and off time to be filled with those lil ringdowns. It would be interesting to see what happens when the freq is high enough that a new pulse happens before the ringdown is over.

Magthinks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 01:21:48 AM
@stephan,
Perhaps perhaps not but to see this pulse is the first step to Tonys revelation, and it is quite large.

Thats why Im perplexed as to why, when i step down a range , i cant see it at all, just the tiny spikes again.

I cant do any more tests untill tonight and im not looking for power at this stage anyway.

WE need to see this effect BEFORE looking for reasons why it wont work.

My goal is  to get to first base which has been a challenge.

One step at a time but I can at least see what he is on about..now and almost by accident.

Every one must fiddle with their cros a lot more than usual.

Sure it may turn out to be something weird with the cro ..I will find out .

btw my current coil is reverse wound  but cant prove that its important yet



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 01:29:47 AM
http://universalpower.webs.com/myvideoplayer.swf

A small collection.

Think about all that hard work,time,money....
Result?.....0,0

Endless story, people want to be fooled..When will they realize?
I bet Steven is laughing his ass off..

M.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 02:38:33 AM
You need to at least see pulse ..it is different.
Im not saying any thing else at this stage, it could turn out to be not what i would like,
I dont care but i will look regardless of failure ..the real failure is to give up trying even more to suggest other's  give up.

Tonys tpu may or may not be the whole picture ..it is not intentionally misleading or fake.
That is more than can be sais for many of the past units.

succeed or not ...power or not this pulse needs some investigation.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 12, 2010, 02:57:34 AM
What does the pulse look like?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 02:57:35 AM
It would be nice if the lil spinny things did the do.
But I will try something with this new coil. wut it do.
Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on January 12, 2010, 05:59:11 AM
@marco

That was fantabulous. So many TPU builds. What a job and a half. Hey, do you have some stray builds I can play with. It was interesting to see all them wires just jumping out the center of the tpus, showing all those many wire endings one would have to contend with, and this teaches me the SM TPUs could not have had so many just from the visual and build perspective.

@all

Apply a steady 5-10 vdc to the primary and do a mapping of the field polarities with a compass. Then reverse the connections and see the reverse in the fields. You may need to tilt the unit sideways to effect the compass. Make a drawing showing the fields. Do the same for the secondary.

So, you need to know the north/south field relationships regardless of the pulsing voltage and/or frequency, this will be the base line or how the muscle works.

See where is the primary blotch wall? Most likely in the center, so don't put your secondary there. Try 3 turns in top half, the fourth crossing though the blotch and 3 turns on the bottom half. Or put two secondaries then in series or parallel, or each alone, does not matter.

Try 10% duty, not more, you don't need more because chances are any more will not change the outcome given the low total copper mass of the primary.

Try capacitor discharge into the primary. Meaning charge cap, discharge cap into primary, and so on. Put a dioded cap on the secondary and see how much you catch per pulse.

If you have the three phase primary, do a RV type set-up. 2 phases driven on two pulsed wires, with 3rd phase in parallel through a very small run capacitor.

There are many things you can test.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 06:35:35 AM
Agentgates  Agentgates,  this is Magluvin 0 7    We need you to come back to base.  Project spinertia is being twarted by the Coil Finger group. We need those videos Gates!  Get back to base!

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: IceStorm on January 12, 2010, 06:49:54 AM
@marco

That was fantabulous. So many TPU builds. What a job and a half. Hey, do you have some stray builds I can play with. It was interesting to see all them wires just jumping out the center of the tpus, showing all those many wire endings one would have to contend with, and this teaches me the SM TPUs could not have had so many just from the visual and build perspective.

@all

Apply a steady 5-10 vdc to the primary and do a mapping of the field polarities with a compass. Then reverse the connections and see the reverse in the fields. You may need to tilt the unit sideways to effect the compass. Make a drawing showing the fields. Do the same for the secondary.

So, you need to know the north/south field relationships regardless of the pulsing voltage and/or frequency, this will be the base line or how the muscle works.

See where is the primary blotch wall? Most likely in the center, so don't put your secondary there. Try 3 turns in top half, the fourth crossing though the blotch and 3 turns on the bottom half. Or put two secondaries then in series or parallel, or each alone, does not matter.

Try 10% duty, not more, you don't need more because chances are any more will not change the outcome given the low total copper mass of the primary.

Try capacitor discharge into the primary. Meaning charge cap, discharge cap into primary, and so on. Put a dioded cap on the secondary and see how much you catch per pulse.

If you have the three phase primary, do a RV type set-up. 2 phases driven on two pulsed wires, with 3rd phase in parallel through a very small run capacitor.

There are many things you can test.

I don't get your point here. Why test some variation ? There a claim here , if no one are able to replicate with all the information AgentGates gave to us, there 2 possibility: We cant replicate it because there a special component missing OR the first idea is just wrong, in either case, there no need at all to try modification , we don't have ANY indication of what is wrong and no proof of concept AT ALL from a working prototype.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 12, 2010, 06:53:20 AM
http://universalpower.webs.com/myvideoplayer.swf

A small collection.

Think about all that hard work,time,money....
Result?.....0,0

Endless story, people want to be fooled..When will they realize?
I bet Steven is laughing his ass off..

M.

Hi Marco,
great builds and much work.

Would be still better if you had posted more documentation
over the years. Then some people may have had some
more ideas how to help you.
Many thanks for this compilation.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 12, 2010, 07:08:26 AM
Hell, I did this 20 years ago, wrote them on diagram with art bell, nothing special . just a certain transformer of curiosity.

that is all they are, transformers, a transformer will behave as such, a transformer.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 07:12:00 AM
For the record that video contains only a slight selection of what has been done....


the real failure is to give up trying even more to suggest other's  give up.


Bullshit Mannix
It's a failure to continue with this never ending joke.

There are other devices that have been well documented and video's wherein the inventors actually describes and shows the entire process.
This gives you a definite direction and you instantly know what to do and where to look for..
Compare this to what we have been doing over the past years and the TPU becomes dust at once.

Once you start looking around you will quickly realize that we all have been shooting in the dark for many years with this vague TPU Device.
Nobody knows how it works or what it does or how to build it.
The inventor isn't very helpfull ,And it is going to stay like that, trust me.
Nobody is going to solve this one in a hundred years.

I am glad i decided to look around and see what other great things have been done in the past.
It's not a failure to see if it's possible to switch route to more clear roads, I found it's actually a good decision.

Marco.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: IceStorm on January 12, 2010, 07:21:14 AM
For the record that video contains only a slight selection of what has been done....

Bullshit Mannix
It's a failure to continue with this never ending joke.

There are other devices that have been well documented and video's wherein the inventors actually describes and shows the entire process.
This gives you a definite direction and you instantly know what to do and where to look for..
Compare this to what we have been doing over the past years and the TPU becomes dust at once.

Once you start looking around you will quickly realize that we all have been shooting in the dark for many years with this vague TPU Device.
Nobody knows how it works or what it does or how to build it.
The inventor isn't very helpfull ,And it is going to stay like that, trust me.
Nobody is going to solve this one in a hundred years.

I am glad i decided to look around and see what other great things have been done in the past.
It's not a failure to see if it's possible to switch route to more clear roads, I found it's actually a good decision.

Marco.

You know what its realy funny, no one ever asked themselves "What if the toroidal form as nothing to do at all with the effect" , that will explain why he didn't care to let people disassemble the core but NOT the circuit.

Lol ,
Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 12, 2010, 07:40:46 AM
anybody with any knowledge would of dissected both, this is what an engineer does.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 12, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Hello all,

@wings

no, Im not testing this coils here. I have "my program".

@gotoluc

I dont have a camera so its almost impossible for me to show you this effect in a video.

But I can describe you a little bit what I see:

when I pulse my coil I see really big kicks. I cant measure them with my scope because I would blow the last working scope probe I have.
As I have a "special signal" I see and can test that the particles are swirling around my TPU.

Then, when I lift 1 end of my TPU to 90° to my workbench I see that there are NO KICKS!!! Of course, no kicks, no particles are swirling around the TPU and then its clear that there is no light anymore.

Then, when I totally flip over my TPU I see again big kicks. But this kicks are totally different. And of course the particles are stopped and there is NO light. Again, I can test it without any problems.

So, Steven was right!!! Without any doubt!

@Marco

are you sure about your words?

Otto



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 09:19:03 AM
@Otto, can you explain how you 'see' kicks without the use of an oscilloscope ?

@beboszek, your driving circuit has quite some similarities to mine.
I also use a IRF540 to drive the primary coil.
If I apply 1 KHz square wave, my results are indeed very simular to what your scope picture shows.
My coil looks very simular, only some differences in the wire thickness.
Mine is also 80 mm diameter, 70 mm height.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 12, 2010, 09:30:28 AM
Hello all,

@teslaalset

Im using my scope!! But its not connected!! The scope probe is near the TPU or 1 feet away and I see the signals without any problem.

In the past I have blown 5 scope probes and I dont want to blow my last  probe that I have.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ronotte on January 12, 2010, 09:41:13 AM
Hi Marco,

I enjoyed very much your video-clip :D

I do owe a similar, perhaps bigger 'store' of TPUs in various state of readiness, other cannibalized for parts, not speaking about coils, caduceus, spirals, Tesla stuff etc. I hope I will have time to setup something documenting the incredible efforts I did and I am still doing. I could setup a store or a museum (like many others). I am also almost sure I have been very near to a full success...  ::)

Irrespective of his success that I really wish him, at least agentgates is 'doing something' which is different from...zero, I appreciate his commitment even if my personal opinion is different as in the past I already, like several others, have done a similar test for spherics design without showing significative results.


Roberto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 12, 2010, 10:15:35 AM
Hello all,

@Roberto

finally a post from you.

Have you ever thought why ALL of you have failed? Of course you have!!

My last post: "Im using my scope! But its not connected!!
The scope probe is near the TPU or 1 feet away and I see the signals without any problem".

This means that the kick is in the wire but the main problem is that this kick is also in every single coil you have made in your setup and this IS the reason for the hash and all s..t you all can see. Hash means that there is NO power in the kick. Its wasted energy to say so.

When you build a coil always think about to "isolate" somehow vertical coils from horizontal coils so the kicks can only "reach" or the horizontal or the vertical coils but NOT both in the same time.

This is only 1 of the problems.

The next is this:

According to my last post.....I see kicks on my unconnected scope probe even 2 feet away from my TPU!!

This means ..... my GOD forgive me I have to release this:

YOU ARE ALL PULSATING THE WRONG COILS!! THE COLLECTORS ARE THE CONTROLS AND THE CONTROLS ARE THE COLLECTORS.

I have almost a heart attac.

Otto

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 10:56:11 AM
Ok,

here are 3 pictures

you will se that the spikes are normal but as you approach 22 volt they change dramatically.

I cannot see it on the 100 mv range at all but as soonas i switch to 50 mv its clear. I dont know why that is so yet.

the two cro pictures are the same ..just a different voltage range, thats all

If I reverse the cro  leads it changes dramatically and looks more like the pulses from tony. but still vastly different from the other range I do not know what is happening, tried different leads, I cannot see it on another cro I have but it is there wether on 10* or 1* so is not an overload factor that i can see yet.

Yes it seems that there is an earth somewhere but there is not , at least dc wise

every thing is dc isolated (inut drive and out put)

My suggestion is to be sure to use 22 volts or more as it is not there at all untill 22 volts
It has 20 ohms series with the supply

fg driving the fet thru 27 ohms

Over to you tony

Lindsay



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 12, 2010, 11:05:20 AM
Hello all,

@Lindsay

BRAVO!!!

I have exact the same signals like in the top photo!!

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: HopeForHumanity on January 12, 2010, 11:08:33 AM
@marco

Failure is the discovery of what does not work; this means failure is necessary to discover what succeeds. You sound like a frustrated scientist. The more frustrated you are is a good way to show how much effort you have put into something. So logic dictates that its good to be frustrated, as you have shown us all things that do not work. Sometimes its more important to show the wrong paths before you show someone the right one. Things dont always appear right tell some things appear wrong.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ronotte on January 12, 2010, 11:14:41 AM
Agentgates, Otto,

I apologize for going outside this thread's purpose: sorry, just a last thought.

Otto: it has been a pleasure hearing again from you, you know what? INTERCHANGING COLLECTOR/CONTROL COILS ROLES HAS BEEN ONE OF MY FAVORITE PLAY. The funny is that said game is not over ;).....and you are doing well by keeping your precious probes far from the device under test...it is a good way!

The amount of amazing device I played with has been and it is huge. Knowledge is coming bit by bit by reading/studying and rereading again: incredible is what already did in the past ...mainly by Tesla. Each time I reread his papers I discover something new...well, not new but simply unnoticed before. That guy a pure genius.

Roberto

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gauschor on January 12, 2010, 11:16:48 AM
Bullshit [...],
It's a failure to continue with this never ending joke.

There are other devices that have been well documented and video's wherein the inventors actually describes and shows the entire process.
This gives you a definite direction and you instantly know what to do and where to look for..

If other devices had such a good and useful description, people would have replicated them already. Fact is, it is not the case, because we are still trying to replicate and eventually end up unsuccessful with everything...

It is really frustrating. Humanity deserves more freedom, especially freedom from energy monoplists. I really hoped that the TPU would have been the real deal. The way society is developing in the world is making me sad, I see no future for our children & grandchildren. Maybe agentgates can report some success after all?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 12, 2010, 11:30:25 AM
@Roberto

yes, Tesla and his devices. And so big cores he used.

Otto

PS: SM used also big cores!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 12:30:34 PM
stranger and stranger
reverse the primary source  ..then you have to reverse the secondary..cro only connected.
different cros display this signal differently ..before the rise, around 18 volts . all cros, 4 in all  display exactly the same.

the 400 mhz is the best  so far. there are more cros at work..we will see

whatever hair is left will soon be gone


Hey Roberto..whip one of these together if you can make time to
your input would be valued here

Lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 12:56:15 PM
@Mannix,

A few short questions:
- cro=cathode ray oscilloscoop?
- do you mean increase the power supply above 22 Volt? Else, what to you mean with the 22 Volt? Swing across the primary coil?
- I notice your windings have different orientation. Is this because you live down under?
- how many primary windings do you have?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 01:09:25 PM
@teslaalset

cro yes
yes the supply  volts
my next test is to do them the other (right ) way, i do not know if it will make a difference yet
I failed to keep the other wind intact (wrong)

sorry for the abreviations/ slang , i should remember that they dont translate well

all aussies shorten everything ...especially the rrrrr's


What seems to be is that my instruments which pass all other tests do not seem to be reliable as i thought.
This could be affecting many people and is very important for what we are trying to do..duplicate Tony's A and effects
It is a can o worms..with a few snakes!

edit..1 primary winding
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 01:12:59 PM
@ Mannix,
Thanks.
I added another question while you answered my questions. Let me repeat that one: Do you have one or three primary coils?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 01:16:52 PM
YOU ARE ALL PULSATING THE WRONG COILS!! THE COLLECTORS ARE THE CONTROLS AND THE CONTROLS ARE THE COLLECTORS.

Otto, we communicate in different styles, I do not understand you.
Can you explain what you mean with pulsating the wrong coils?
I have 2 coils, a primary and a secondary. Pulsating the secondary is not what Tony does in my opinion.
Maybe you can visualize what you have in mind by posting a drawing?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 02:33:24 PM
@teslaalset

Don't use your PG in pulse generator mode, use it in square wave generator mode and set it to a fix 50% duty cycle. 50% gives the best output signals (what you saw on my scopeshots).

33 ohms may give you lower input current than necessary. So if it's too low, please adjust it to lower resistance. With that coil configuration your input should be around 100mA 200mA if you want to see positive results. When you have completed the 3 coil drive it will rapidly fall below it.

IMPORTANT

I will write it multiple times again but I hope this time everybody will read it. :)

1. I noticed that many of you're trying to use PG instead of square wave generator. Expect the best results at 50% duty cycle. Below or above you will get worse results. (in some cases 10% adjustment may bring improvement, but don't vary it, leave it on fix 50%)

2. Frequency: no need to go to high frequency range. Stay in a FIX lower range (e.g. 100Hz or 1kHz). It is not a radio device.

@marco

The video you've posted is embarrasing but also extremely funny. All those coils have exactly the same problem and I am wondering if any of you were able to expect serious results.

When I cleaned up Stefan's I will also send you photos of my poorest devices with far better results and you're going to hit a hole in the wall with your head how simple they are. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 02:43:05 PM
This thing surely pushes something like dc around in a circle, in one direction around the unit

If I take a single turn of copper pipe an hold it above the thing  and bring it down closer it triggers the cro

if i change the polarity of the probes, or turn the copper ring  upside down it does not.

A few more need to see this .. keep going gentlemen there's weird stuff here
 

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 03:10:47 PM
This thing surely pushes something like dc around in a circle, in one direction around the unit

Yes and if you put a load on it should not show significant drop on the peak voltage.

Lindsay did you save your previously opposite wound coils? If so, what do they show? Thanks :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 12, 2010, 03:14:56 PM
Agentgates,
could you tell us more about your theory, what are we trying to accomplish here ?
Is there an optimum wire spacing ?
Is it preferable to have more volume inside the windings, ie thicker tube, or thinner is better?
Would it be preferable if the secondary was on the inside ?  Or totally enclosed by the primary?
Is the sequencing of the 3 phases important?  1-2-3, 1-2-3 ect...  or 3-2-1, 3-2-1 etc...
Is the steepness of the leading and trailing edges of the signal important?
What is the effect of pulsing 3 phases with overlap compared with DC current?
Are we trying to create a vortex in the aether?
What is a particle accelerator?

If we had guidelines, we could probaly unite our forces, and synergystically add our ideas.
Keep up the good work.

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 03:46:52 PM
Mannix

Are you saying that you are pulsing the outer wraps, the ones we were thinking were the secondary output?
And you are seeing dc on what we thought was the primary?
And if your scope is not hooked up while seeing these "visualizations", I fail to see how you can determine dc, let alone see accurately what is happening. For all we know, the capacitive form of not physically having the probe on the test point, could be out of phase.
I dont see why a scope cannot be hooked up. There has to be a way to make a resistor network to protect the probe from this dc or crazy large pulse.
I suppose we will wait for Gates.
Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 03:50:36 PM
Man  if this is true, about what is really the primary and what is really the secondary, then what is all this previous info we have been saving, and how many critical errors like this exist in all that.

What is the REAL primary and what is the REAL secondary?

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 04:13:18 PM
Hello Altair,

I have answered many of these questions but I agree with that there are too many posts and the noise level is also high in this topic to find the answers. So naturally I will repeat it to make sure everybody has understood everything. :) Later I will make a FAQ to these questions and use it a signature in my posts to make your life easier guys. ;)

could you tell us more about your theory, what are we trying to accomplish here ?

We are building an electron accelerator. Each primary coil passing a wire at multiple points with some picosecond delay that creates an extremely fast electron flow in the secondary wire.

Is there an optimum wire spacing ?

I didn't find optimum spacing yet, only minimum spacing which is 2x of the diameter of primary wire so far. It doesn't mean that you get worse results below it, but it means I didn't try it yet so I don't want to nod for now. :)

Is it preferable to have more volume inside the windings, ie thicker tube, or thinner is better?

I increased the tube diameter on my coil to make me easier to place the 2 more wires between the first one and guarrantee that they will not make an echo if they are too close. The wall thickness is not important, only to make the whole thing hard enough to work with.

Would it be preferable if the secondary was on the inside ?  Or totally enclosed by the primary?

No, I didn't observe difference in operation. If you wind one with secondary first, you only need to make sure it will be far enough from the primary wires running INSIDE the tube because that may cause disturbance. (we dont know more specific about this, need to be verified later)

I wind the present coil with secondary firs because I use a very thick secondary and don't want to damage the thin primary (as I did recently).

Is the sequencing of the 3 phases important?  1-2-3, 1-2-3 ect...  or 3-2-1, 3-2-1 etc...

Very important quesion, as probaly it makes difference. For a few hours I can not verify this. (My glue is bonding very slow and I am still sticking :D ) If you have the opportunity please try it in 1-2-3 and 3-2-1 sequence, also change positive and negative and please share us your results. :)

Is the steepness of the leading and trailing edges of the signal important?

The slower rising/falling edge gives lower back EMF. Please use a current limiter resistor on your primaries (15-22ohms) that will make soft rising/falling edge and make your device voltage driven instead of current driven.

What is the effect of pulsing 3 phases with overlap compared with DC current?

If you pulse one primary, you will have to receive smoothly rising peak without back EMF oscillation. The pulses will be very far from each other, but by increasing the frequency you can get them very close to each other. The minimum distance you can achieve between the pulses is about 1/3. So the output pulse will be about 33% duty cycle. You can not get them closer by changing the frequency. But if you fire the 2 more primary you can fill those gaps with created new pulses and decrease the input current. The optimal input current is about 100mA or 200mA depending on your configuration.

Are we trying to create a vortex in the aether?

No. We are "sending" electrons in a primary wire that OCASSIONALY passes another wire (secondary). When you have low amount of intersecting points over the secondary wire, you will trigger the electrons to flow spontaniously in the secondary in one direction. The primary then going inside the tube where does not meat other obstacles (secondary wire) and can earn some speed (some psec) and coming outside again to pass the secondary wires as close as possible.

In this manner the secondary wire will provide DC current.

When you will drive the 3 coils, please make sure you start it from low frequency and increase it slowly as the spikes will come closer and closer. If they rapidly merge your coil may blow up.

My last scope shots that shows 3 spikes was driven at ONLY 87Hz and the duty cycle of the 3 output pulses were ~50%.

What is a particle accelerator?

Particle acceleratior in a regular form is a device that creates flow of particles in a medium. Usually in vacuum where the low weight particles don't hit resistance. In the normal CRT TVs there is a particle (electron) accelerator that creates a stream of electrons in a thin beam. They hit the surface of the screen and light fluorescent dots on it. another unit in the TV moves this particle beam in a "zig-zag" pattern from the top to the bottom that makes the beam able to scan the whole area of the screen.

In this device we don't create electron beam in vacuum, rather we do the same thing in a conductive medium. Since copper is a very good conductor, we can create the same high speed electron beam right in the medium and use the beam as energy.

If we had guidelines, we could probaly unite our forces, and synergystically add our ideas.

Yes I agree with that.

Keep up the good work.

I am on it. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 04:18:37 PM
@ Toni,

One simple question:

How do you connect your oscilloscoop probe?

I connected mine with the ground lead to one coil connection and the signal lead to the other coil connection.
Would be good to know if you did exactly that as well.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 04:34:36 PM
One simple question:

How do you connect your oscilloscoop probe?

I connected mine with the ground lead to one coil connection and the signal lead to the other coil connection.
Would be good to know if you did exactly that as well.

Oh, sorry. I have forgotten to answer that question.

I have tried both ways, it doesn't make any difference, even with load on it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 04:34:41 PM

@marco

The video you've posted is embarrasing but also extremely funny. All those coils have exactly the same problem and I am wondering if any of you were able to expect serious results.


That's why you are here right?
To show us how it's really done.....
I sugest you bring it on.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 04:53:40 PM
That's why you are here right?
To show us how it's really done.....
I sugest you bring it on.

Yes marco. Thanks for pushing me it is vital. Please make a bot repeats your comments every hour. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 05:05:51 PM
Wow Marco, your like a 7 star general!  =]
I agree though. Why do these things always go in this fashion. Hopes are raised, then replication failure, hopes are raised, then replications have mistakes.  But the one that says it is, wont show. There must some reason or mind set that leads the show in this way.
Gates, there is always the possibility that you could get shut down, just a thought, before we get a full view or totally understand.
You said earlier for us to copy all this, and you want the world to have it. If it works and Tes shows one working before you, im sure you will still get the prize.
 But some things seem to be held back. We can only guess why.

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 05:10:22 PM
Well,
I tried 50% duty cycle signal as low as 75 Hz, increased the primary peak current from 300 mA to 600 mA. It's a no go.
Next, I will make a new coil with 45 degrees single winding primary to see whether that will work for me.

[update]
Yes, I tried switching the polarity of the primary.
Yes, I tried turning the coil setup upside down.
Yes, I tried a 32 ohm load to the secondary coil.
No go, guys.

Below some details of my failing coil, just for the record.
Primary coil wire : 0.2 mm
Secondary coil wire 1.52 mm, 3 windings
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 05:15:02 PM
Tes   have you tried the secondary with a load?
Say a 100ohm res. Then see what is there. Also a cap on the sec to see if it builds. try with a diode and without.
Sorry for the do this do that, just stuff that I cannot do.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 05:15:09 PM
Well,
I tried 50% duty cycle signal as low as 75 Hz, increased the primary peak current from 300 mA to 600 mA. It's a no go.
Next, I will make a new coil with 45 degrees single winding primary to see whether that will work for me.

1. Change driving polarity.
2. Turn the device upside down. Lindsay said it makes difference.

I am still glueing.  :-\
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 05:18:40 PM
-
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 05:21:02 PM
I thought that changing the driving polarity would only change the output polarity? Is it possible that depending on the angle and direction of current we could either have rectification or blocking, and in another config, have ou?
Well that would explain a lot. But I am only hearing that now. Weird isnt it.

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 05:35:51 PM
some updates on previous page to your suggestion guys. Thanks.
Maybe I'll do some birdwatching first  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 05:39:05 PM
@Magluvin

Yes, when I was experimenting with that device I didn't observe this carefully, it was only a clue that I though logical. I think I also mentioned that.

It looks like I can't finish with the winding on the nice acrylic today due to the new glue bonds slower than I expected and I can't glue every sides in the same time cause I have to be careful to keep the same spacing on every sides. ::) (Don't get confused on this. It is because this device will be in the presentation and I dont want to make an ugly job)

When I am ready with it I will do some more research on the mentioned polarity and upside down things to make their results an absolute fact. Until then I am improving the software side to make myself useful.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 05:48:03 PM
some updates on previous page to your suggestion guys. Thanks.
Maybe I'll do some birdwatching first  ;)

:)

Ok, that is the best thing when you get stuck. It always helped me. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 12, 2010, 05:49:53 PM
Tony while working on the software I was asking myself. If you use a pulse of 1ms on and 1ms off then you cannot have overlapping phases. The best you can get is having to start the next phase when the previous phase hits low, this would be a delay of half a period. Arduino does support microsecond (accuracy of 4µs) delays but is that high frequency really needed?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 05:57:09 PM
Ok Gates. We have to accept that.

tes   very good then.

But man if there is a formula to this and it works, I should be able to severely increase the range on my ebike. I get 20 mi per charge now, but if this can make 48v at 20a for very little input, Yippy!  lol  I have 3 ebikes one is a Wavecrest tidalforce, another is a trek with an ebay kit, spins the tire, and its a brushless hub motor. The 3rd is a 160 Target bike with a brushed hub motor, it is inefficient and low torque, but 27 mph top speed all motor. lol
Just dreaming.
Im still rooting for ya Gates. Even though my faith is lackluster, but we cannot say I am the only one.

Seems so unlikely that so little wire could do so much. But these are the days of our lives.

Carry on Gates.
Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 12, 2010, 06:00:06 PM
Thanks agentgates,
it's much clearer now.
You mention driving the coils with 50% duty cycle, so with 3-phases that will have the effect of sometimes having two phases simultaneously ON, because of the overlapping. See attached drawing.  Is this what you planned ?
If instead we were to pulse with 33% duty cycle, there would always be only one phase ON at a time...

By the way, why don't you use cyanoacrylate glue for your coils, it's instant !  ;)

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 12, 2010, 06:11:17 PM
Thanks agentgates,
it's much clearer now.
You mention driving the coils with 50% duty cycle, so with 3-phases that will have the effect of sometimes having two phases simultaneously ON, because of the overlapping. See attached drawing.  Is this what you planned ?
If instead we were to pulse with 33% duty cycle, there would always be only one phase ON at a time...

By the way, why don't you use cyanoacrylate glue for your coils, it's instant !  ;)

Altair

You are correct, with 50% there will always be a moment where 2 or 3 pulses overlap. This is a bit the arduino dilemma. In milliseconds mode the minimum frequency is 250Hz. So on and off time of 2ms. So that's the highest frequency you can get using the milliseconds in arduino.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 06:23:51 PM
Tony while working on the software I was asking myself. If you use a pulse of 1ms on and 1ms off then you cannot have overlapping phases. The best you can get is having to start the next phase when the previous phase hits low, this would be a delay of half a period. Arduino does support microsecond (accuracy of 4µs) delays but is that high frequency really needed?

I don't know broli. Presently I am writing a new code for my pattern generator that has 12 channels and 500MHz internal clock. It makes me allow to make very accurate phase delays and duty cycles on each channel. In the meantime gluing the new coil and perhaps I will finish with them in the same time.

When I have accurate parameters with the 3 phase version I will make another update.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 06:48:06 PM
Glueing....I would use hot glue, cheap and fast.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 12, 2010, 06:48:58 PM
Could someone, please, post or repost what is the correct picture for the cylinder with the coils on and which coil is the primary and the secondary? Which angle is the correct angle and how many turns for each.

I want to replicate the coil and try all the science that a monkey can find.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 06:58:33 PM
I can sorta understand the 3 phase jig. But within completion of 3 phase pulses, 4 times the energy is being used, actually if 2 are on at any time, as in all the time 2, then the input is 4 times what a single phase would consume.  So it is consuming 4 times the energy of pulsing 1 primary on/off, due to any 2 primaries are on at any time.

Thats just an analysis from what I gather. So all you single primary guys, rip it apart. 3 is the word.  Why did we build those?  hmmm   Im trying to have faith. But as Glenn Beck says  "Questions with boldness".

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
Really Plen   I would wait till Tony gets done. I dont think we have all the actual data and stats yet. They change as time goes by. So far nobody has a working coil. So something is a miss.

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 12, 2010, 08:21:03 PM
@ Agent Gates said:

When you will drive the 3 Coils, please make sure you start it from low frequency and increase it slowly as the spikes will come closer and closer.

If they rapidly merge your coil may blow up.

========================================================================
 
Agent Gates, Do you mean BLOWING UP like it gets RED HOT and MELTS, or do you mean something different?
 
Thank you.
 
 
.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 08:43:19 PM
@Magluvin

Quote
Really Plen   I would wait till Tony gets done. I dont think we have all the actual data and stats yet. They change as time goes by.

Yes you are right. I didn't want to insult anybody because they are courious and I am adjusting many parameters in the meantime. So they can't catch up to me. But it also has a postive side because they can deeply understand how it works. So I would say everyone to experiment only if you are courious until I have fixed all the parameters, walked around the northeren/southern hemisphere thing and polarity thing and finally made some formulas to make your life easier with any kind of tube sizes.

This is why I don't agree with those who want the complete results for yesterday. I clearly addressed to that in my first comment there are many things to investigate and make it safe and bullet proof.

Of course I will still help those who are interested in experimenting. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
Agent Gates, Do you mean BLOWING UP like it gets RED HOT and MELTS, or do you mean something different.

No it means your device can overrun if the spikes merge to a huge spike. What we are doing here is like laying a brick to another, while the other side (your load on it) removes some bricks from the top. All you need to do is to keep the level on the required level. If you let it to create too high (too big spike) that is a high voltage and high current spike and has a huge electromagnetic effect on your coil.

The same thing that SM mentioned with the little 5-year-old guy and the blown up TV that created so big electromagnetic field that pulled nails out of walls towards the screen (killed the guy) and other wierd things.

It is not an "explosion" in the regular way you imagine. It is an electromagnetic explosion with a short time and extremely high current and voltage. I just warned them to be careful. Please read SM's letter to learn more about it.

BTW, yes it can also rapidly melt down and if you are lucky it will only cause fire. So it is not a child's toy as SM's also mentioned.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 12, 2010, 09:05:14 PM
Tony how do you see the next few days unfolding? Would you think that a working unit would be sent to Stefan before the end of the week? I know deadlines are meant to be pushed but perhaps the extra pressure might help speed up things. I know there's still a mountain to be discovered but for now you are the only person with the unit and that is dangerous.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 12, 2010, 09:07:27 PM
Would be a good idea to fuse the coils, or put breaker on the output.
At least, with very small wire on the primaries, it's already a protection.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 09:10:40 PM
Would be a good idea to fuse the coils, or put breaker on the output.
At least, with very small wire on the primaries, it's already a protection.

Yes, this is the main purpose I prefer the thin primary as I've got one of them melt down already.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 12, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
Tony, at least place a working device in a safe place, away from your home, while you're developing some others.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 09:13:29 PM
Tony how do you see the next few days unfolding? Would you think that a working unit would be sent to Stefan before the end of the week? I know deadlines are meant to be pushed but perhaps the extra pressure might help speed up things. I know there's still a mountain to be discovered but for now you are the only person with the unit and that is dangerous.

This gluing thing really screwd up my plans but the 2x200V secondary is on now. I need one more side to glue and a 3rd secondary for the electronics to make it self running.

For safety reasons I will put a current/voltage sense on the output to avoid accidents.

UPDATE

@broli

You can't change freq on it, but it makes a 120 degrees overlapping. I will make a professional code when I can hook up the coil. Until then it might be helpful and you can see some results on your scope:

const int digitalOutPin0 = 8;
const int digitalOutPin1 = 9;
const int digitalOutPin2 = 10;

const int onState = 1;
const int offState = 0;

int onDelay = 1;
int offDelay = 1;

void setup()
{

}

void loop()
{
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, onState);
  delay(onDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin0, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin1, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
  digitalWrite(digitalOutPin2, offState);
  delay(offDelay);
/*  PORTC = B00000001;
  PORTC = B00000011;
  PORTC = B00000110;
  PORTC = B00000110;
  PORTC = B00000100;*/
}
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 09:21:32 PM
Tony, at least place a working device in a safe place, away from your home, while you're developing some others.

That device I can take outside and video in the far nature is the one I am gluing right now. :)

@broli

I am on it to finish and walk around Stefan's device on this week.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 09:29:26 PM

The same thing that SM mentioned with the little 5-year-old guy and the blown up TV that created so big electromagnetic field that pulled nails out of walls towards the screen (killed the guy) and other wierd things.

It is not an "explosion" in the regular way you imagine. It is an electromagnetic explosion with a short time and extremely high current and voltage. I just warned them to be careful. Please read SM's letter to learn more about it.


Please read the LA times to learn more about it.
He got that story out of the local newspaper.
People want to be fooled.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/nov/14/local/me-51623 (http://articles.latimes.com/2000/nov/14/local/me-51623)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 12, 2010, 09:29:29 PM
...and don't publicly announce at what time and which day you're going to mail your device...
Mail has been known to "disappear".
Better be safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 09:54:28 PM
@marco

I am starting to understand what's going on here.

1. SM's written down clearly how to build his devices.
2. Some guys from power companies, secret services joined to play the dumb with the experimenters to get them away from aproaching the thing in the simplest way.
3. The "professionals" joined up them.
4. They failed over years after spending enormous amount of money their copper piles.
5. To protect their professional prestige on the front of the public and other "professionals" they have to find a black sheep who to blame for their failure.
6. The simplest way to do that if they make the people to believe the man who released the instructions (SM) has spoken the rubbish.
7. Thus they scan the forums with widely open eyes and overrun everybody who is about the same: to replicate the device.
8. They have to spend their remaining lifetime to use all their creative functions to disinform people in order to protect their prestige instead of using the fragment of their creativity and get it working.

Who makes the benefit from all this? Those who make $7000 bn every year from oil and all these prestige fun guys work for them for free while they are laughing their arse off. Why? :)

Did you hook up any of my $3 coils on your PG and scope marco? :)

I doubt that.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 09:57:32 PM
And i doubt that you are going to show any working shit  :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 12, 2010, 10:02:08 PM
marco your last post made it clear then. Can you please refrain from posting here until either Tony sent the working unit out and you apologies or when this threads hits 100 pages with no working replica and Tony receives a shit storm  ;D . There's no need to waste any more words if you don't agree. If you can't refrain then you would be proving his statement.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 10:03:35 PM
And i doubt that you are going to show any working shit  :)

Yes it sounds very logical: I apply for a prize on the front of the public that finally I MUST send for deep analysis if I want the prize.

Oh, BTW you are fun of the word: proof... Can you proove your above statement? ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 12, 2010, 10:11:34 PM
http://http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/ketone2010/electronpuller.jpg
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 10:13:17 PM
http://http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/ketone2010/electronpuller.jpg

Nice. Put 2 or 3 turns around it and drive it on low freq.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 10:33:59 PM
Yes it sounds very logical: I apply for a prize on the front of the public that finally I MUST send for deep analysis if I want the prize.

Oh, BTW you are fun of the word: proof... Can you proove your above statement? ;)

This is about you signing up for the prize 32 pages ago....not about me proving anything.
I tried hard enough and i do not like to see people waste others people's time....

So what's it gonne be?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 10:43:00 PM
Bah comon marco, that dont sound nice.
We all feel a need to know.  But as tony stated above, he doesnt want anyone to catch up, so we dont really have all we need to know yet, that can be certain. That is some info that should have been disclosed earlier. As you can see it has stirred up the cattle. 
We are not here to intentionally hassle. But some here feel a bit betrayed.   So I can see if marco wants to call you on it, it is his bet. And he is playing the odds reasonably, where honesty is concerned.

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 10:46:43 PM
well the truth isn't always nice and besides he asked me to post at the hour  :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
Nice coil Key

But isnt the proximity of the primaries in the web going to add to the self inductance that we are trying to avoid?
 I thought that keeping those separated from each other was important also.

But she is a nice coil.  =]

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 10:49:43 PM
No icebirds found tonight (it's freezing the hell out of here)

I did a rewind of my coil. The angle is now about the same as the instructions of Tony on page 1.
Now all the windings are exactly parallel, both at the outside and inside. That was'nt the case with my previous winding.

I got a 30 volt spike at my secondary but is a very, very short duration. I guess that's due to the kickback at the switch off moment of the primary.
Still no good, I guess, but I won't give up yet...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 10:53:50 PM
@marco

1. I have complied Stefan's request to open a topic for the prize and send the details in the meantime.
2. This is what I am working on right now.
3. Some people read it and said: "hey can we try it out?". Sure. I told them how to do that.
4. Some other guys have joined with an unexpected some kind of "proove your prestige" mass-hysteria on belief and pushing me as if I was obligated to put the fried chicken into their mouth.

Again, marco: Why? I am not your employee, ok? And the person who will evaluate my work is Stefan. So I would kindly suggest to spare your time (and mine) and play with your children or walk in the nature because you are just rising the noise level in this topic without any success... :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 12, 2010, 10:54:23 PM
@mag
          yes ,my head is stuck on swirling vortex concepts
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 10:57:38 PM
No icebirds found tonight (it's freezing the hell out of here)

I did a rewind of my coil. The angle is now about the same as the instructions of Tony on page 1.
I got a 30 volt spike at my secondary but is a very, very short duration. I guess that's due to the kickback at the switch off moment of the primary.
Still no good, I guess, but I won't give up yet...

Is that short duration ~500ns? Is that curvy on both edges? If so, don't scare of that because that is the correct result you need. There will be a lot more when you will turn on the other two coils. Please make sure you will use low frequencies at first. ~100Hz or a bit below with the 3 coils.

UPDATE

2 more coils will give you more than 3x of pulses. At 87Hz I am receiving 500ns pulses at 50% duty cycle!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 11:03:10 PM
Is that short duration ~500ns? Is that curvy on both edges? If so, don't scare of that because that is the correct result you need. There will be a lot more when you will turn on the other two coils. Please make sure you will use low frequencies at first. ~100Hz or a bit below with the 3 coils.

Tony, it's more like 100 ns spikes, independent from the input frequency.
It's curvy, but my scoop is a 50 MHz one, so there are some measurement effects too.
I tried 75 - 1000 Hz.
On to a coil with three primary windings I guess.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 11:06:57 PM
At 87Hz I am receiving 500ns pulses at 50% duty cycle!

Wow, looks like a steady oscillation.
Mine is exactly synchronized with the falling edge of the current switch off moment, so very, very low duty cycle.
Still some work to do...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 11:20:26 PM
@teslaalset
Yes, you are doing well. So not to afraid of, what you see is normal and more than perfect if you don't see oscillation and negative pulses after your pulse. If you are at that stage then you are doing very well.

BTW frequency, yes the pulse length will NOT change if you increase the input clock. That is perfect. Now you need to turn on the 2 other coils to get even more pulses and get them closer to each other.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 12, 2010, 11:26:32 PM
@marco

 So I would kindly suggest to spare your time (and mine) and play with your children or walk in the nature because you are just rising the noise level in this topic without any success... :)


No see i actually have success as there are more and more people that are starting to question this entire TPU thing and i hope i can convince them that this device is going nowhere!, so they can use their time and money on things that deserve it!! :)
 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 11:29:34 PM
@teslaalset
Yes, you are doing well. So not to afraid of, what you see is normal and more than perfect if you don't see oscillation and negative pulses after your pulse. If you are at that stage then you are doing very well.

BTW frequency, yes the pulse length will NOT change if you increase the input clock. That is perfect. Now you need to turn on the 2 other coils to get even more pulses and get them closer to each other.

Thanks for the encouragements.
I am still suffering from 'old school' syndromes  ;)
Basic thoughts are still that if you load a primary coil with steady current and switch the current off real quick the electrons still keep flowing and build up a large voltage spike. I think that is what I see happening still.
Because of the very steep spike, it has very high frequency spectrum that is very easily transferred to a secondary winding.
Just my thoughts.

What are the dimensions of your new coil by the way?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 12, 2010, 11:30:20 PM
Dont get me wrong keys, heck as far as wee know, that will be the way we do it in the end.. lol
I wonder if this effect can be implied upon the primary itself by crossing its own path at different angles. But we just got to get to know the effect in order to make those decisions properly.
I hear the concept, I see examples of coils that should work,etc. ,  but I dont KNOW anything for sure.
He has laid it out finally that we will always be a step back.  I would love to take the time and bang out some twizzlers. But without the secret recipe, its not going to taste the same, and for some here not the same at all. =[

Dont take this badly....
And Im sure Stefans meaning of opening the thread wasnt so we should be led down this road. I hear ya tony about that part of your deal. But man, what are we not atune to? Are you sliding the secondary down the primary to get a good spot. What?  Throw us some bones here. So far testers are not seeing dc. Do you have times that you dont get dc on the sec. ? And what does it take to correct that.  You seem to be confident at producing it. They should not have been encouraged well knowing they will fail. Why doesnt Stefans coil work? Actually why was it known not to work and sent?  "Ask bold questions"  And these questions are fair according to what is presented.  If keys got his up and running you would still be the man, and up until now, it would be keys working model that would make you the man.
If we were all going at this time, then this thread would really rock! We would be discussing serious theory and new ways of making it better. But we sit with our broken, tasteless twizzlers.

You might think the pressure is all on you. Some stay home from work for this stuff. Because it is important.

Magluvin 0 7 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 11:32:04 PM
No see i actually have success as there are more and more people that are starting to question this entire TPU thing and i hope i can convince them that this device is going nowhere!, so they can use their time and money on things that deserve it!! :)

It is very generous from you spending so much time from your life on others "benefit". BTW, are you writing from an oil rig? 8)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 12, 2010, 11:36:08 PM
The thing that is important is that I was not able to see this this effect clearly untill i switched ranges on my cro.

That is still the case and different istruments display this differently.

This experience surely is important for every body and I dont have the answer

I thought" no go" for a while as well but knew that Tony was surely getting something.

@ Tony do you have any thing to add on this ?..like try and older cro.
The folks here may be suffering the same as I was just to see the effect.






I would suggest that everybody try this.

Follow Tony,s advice over and over

If you are sure everything is correct, including the nature walk.


use a single turn of thin copper pipe, or thick wire. Hold it   above the unit with cro leads connected  to just below trigger level, in one shot if you like but it makes no difference.

now lower the ring over the running unit and see if it triggers..ok nothing? turn the ring over !


I needed 22 volts to see the effect but 30 was better


I hope that this at least will show you that there is something that the cro is picking up but possibly not displaying as we would expect.


@ marco, and others of doubt

Just wind one of these , one more ..it will be so easy for you ,it does not take very long.

It does not cost much. and so what if you dont get any results. have a go



remember marko rodin?
We need your help here . Whatever ......it is at least very, very  interesting.

@all
 please work hard to get to see this effect IT IS THERE !

Tony ,Thanks again. It is a fine thing you are showing and I admire the way you are handling it.

Lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 11:37:28 PM
What are the dimensions of your new coil by the way?

Only the diameter bigger 127mm to make larger gaps on Stefan's device as it is from acrylic and perhaps he wants to take it to presentaions or other things and show people there are coils and no flat batteries around... :D

BTW the secondary is also different but ignore it, you have nothing to do with that yet. I use 3 secondary. 2x200V for inverter and another one for ~30V to comply his request on self-driving.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 12, 2010, 11:46:22 PM
@Lindsay

Thank you for your positive comment as always. It also helps me to work faster as I cna get lazy very quickly.. :D
And thanks for the useful advices to others and helping them.

Unfortunatelly I don't have cro (died a few months ago hand in hand with my PG due to another TPU experiment :D ).

BTW, what is your experience with the Northern/Southern hemisphere thing. Do the winding and polarity make a difference?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 12, 2010, 11:52:51 PM
Tony, Thank you for telling us about how you had one of your TPUs Melt Down.

It reminded me of how Bob Boyce's TPU caused a Lightning Bolt to hit him inside his garage when he got his 3 FREQUENCIES TOO CLOSE.


http://waterfuel.100free.com/wf_boyce.html


Serious warning needs to be given here. The combination of sharp pulsing and accurately wound toroid core composed of an iron powder matrix, draws in so much extra power from the environment that it is essential that it is only used with the electrolyser cell which is capable of soaking up excess energy surges. The extra energy drawn in is not always constant and surges can occur which can generate currents of 10,000 Amps. It should be understood that this electrical current which we can measure is only the 'losses' part of the real power surge which is in a form which we can't measure as we have no instruments which can measure it directly. Consequently, the actual environmental power surge is far, far in excess of this 10,000 Amps. It is very important then, that the electronics board and toroidal transformer are NOT connected to other equipment 'to see what will happen'. Even more important is not to arrange a pulsed, rotating magnetic field in the toroid by sequential pulsing of coils spaced around the toroid. These arrangements can generate power surges so great that the excess power not soaked up by the circuit (especially after it's instantaneous burn-out) is liable to form the ground-leader of a lightning strike.

Bob experimented with this and was hit by a DIRECT LIGHTNING STRIKE. He was very lucky to survive being hit and he now works in a worshop which has metal walls ans roof, and lightning grounding at each corner of the building, plus a separate ground for the equipment inside the building. A device like this is not a toy, and it demonstrates the incredible level of free-energy which can be tapped by quite simple devices if you know what you are doing.



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 12, 2010, 11:56:18 PM
Only the diameter bigger 127mm to make larger gaps on Stefan's device as it is from acrylic and perhaps he wants to take it to presentaions or other things and show people there are coils and no flat batteries around... :D

BTW the secondary is also different but ignore it, you have nothing to do with that yet. I use 3 secondary. 2x200V for inverter and another one for ~30V to comply his request on self-driving.

What's the height of your new coil?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 13, 2010, 12:01:17 AM
The thing that is important is that I was not able to see this this effect clearly untill i switched ranges on my cro.

That is still the case and different istruments display this differently.

This experience surely is important for every body and I dont have the answer

I thought" no go" for a while as well but knew that Tony was surely getting something.

@ Tony do you have any thing to add on this ?..like try and older cro.
The folks here may be suffering the same as I was just to see the effect.

I would suggest that everybody try this.

Follow Tony,s advice over and over

If you are sure everything is correct, including the nature walk.


use a single turn of thin copper pipe, or thick wire. Hold it   above the unit with cro leads connected  to just below trigger level, in one shot if you like but it makes no difference.

now lower the ring over the running unit and see if it triggers..ok nothing? turn the ring over !


I needed 22 volts to see the effect but 30 was better


I hope that this at least will show you that there is something that the cro is picking up but possibly not displaying as we would expect.


@ marco, and others of doubt

Just wind one of these , one more ..it will be so easy for you ,it does not take very long.

It does not cost much. and so what if you dont get any results. have a go



remember marko rodin?
We need your help here . Whatever ......it is at least very, very  interesting.

@all
 please work hard to get to see this effect IT IS THERE !

Tony ,Thanks again. It is a fine thing you are showing and I admire the way you are handling it.

Lindsay

The spike is so nasty and small that the maximum bandwidth capabilities of oscilloscopes matters. Any device capable of max 20 Mhz is no good.

The reason why higher voltages work better for you is that the current in the primary is larger, which will give a larger spike while switching off.
(according to my insights, but I looks like Tony has additional effects too).

update
The quality of your scope probes matters too, of course  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 12:01:49 AM
@agentgates...i know what you mean about being careful putting on the secondary, very difficult little process,spaces were a bit unequal as well on this one, so i'll just use as a museum piece for now
 I will paint the outside with glue first before attempting that again, so, on to build another one of yours tonight ...btw, has anyone had experience using wirewrap aka kynar? i can get to 33 awg and still have strength but unsure of shielding effect.

@mag...i hear ya...all credit goes to agentgates...and broli with insightful diagrams i've been wanting to wind
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 13, 2010, 12:05:52 AM
FatBird,
 Tony has said this from the very first[the 5 year old "Killed" in Chicago]Thus the very light gauge wire he insists on.

BTW Very different than Bobs design.


Chet
PS has anyone tried this??
http://www.associatedbag.com/product.asp?cn=ABC&c1=BGB&p1=BGB
instead of waiting for glue to dry
 apply double sided tape to tube for 1st layer , install light gauge wire than cover with above to keep everything straight.
Then put on second layer of heavy wire.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:15:23 AM
What's the height of your new coil?

That was calculated by my formula I sent earlier at every 45 degrees coils:
l = (d x 3.14) / 6

"l" is the length you need to cut to get the 45 degrees. :)

UPDATE

Oh, pardon, to be complete: the length is ~67mm. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 12:19:41 AM
Hmmm Key,  by looking at that Phat =] secondary, made me think should the start of the secondary be, lets say we go clockwise from the start, above or below the secondary end. Just the from an angle standpoint and secondary proximity to itself, might affect the spins.  Like do we start at the bottom and end at the top? Or the other way. Just a thing to try. It is an open option.

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 13, 2010, 12:21:13 AM
I started remaking the 3d renditions with the correct angles, I will probably finish it up tomorrow.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:22:13 AM
@ramset

Thanks, yes I did try that earlier but not easy with a thick and hard copper. I think I will try the hot glue thing next time. This one is very annoying and stink. I have to keep window open in this cold winter... :D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 13, 2010, 12:22:29 AM
ketone,
if, by "shielding effect" you mean insulation qualities, there won't be any problem.
And Kynar wire is very sturdy.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 12:25:21 AM
@mag...hmm yes, my first thought of it was that it just switches polarity of the terminals....but alas, without guidance...unsure as yet

@ altair..thanks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:27:04 AM
@fatbird

Thank you for the link and the warning. I think it should be on the top of priority list and I update my first comment. (UPDATE: I can not... :( )

@ketone

Nice one. :) Is that secondary thick enough? :D
Just joking. You don't need that thick copper, unless you are intended to weld directly from your device. :)

BTW, you don't have the 2 more primary coils. You will seriously suffer to make OU without them.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 12:29:59 AM
@agentgates...yes about primaries...i stopped production on it as i was considering 4 phase..and its funny you mention welding...as thats what it will be for at the factory!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 13, 2010, 12:34:02 AM
@Lindsay

Thank you for your positive comment as always. It also helps me to work faster as I cna get lazy very quickly.. :D
And thanks for the useful advices to others and helping them.

Unfortunatelly I don't have cro (died a few months ago hand in hand with my PG due to another TPU experiment :D ).

A, what is your experience with the Northern/Southern hemisphere thing. Do the winding and polarity make a difference?

Tonight I will wind identical the other way and get this variable out of the equasion for good.
I failed to keep the other wind ..lazy me

Another thing, to make the secondary fit better , wind the think wire over something 20% smaller than your tube. then it will hold itself  snugly when you (carefully)transfer it to the main tube.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 12:36:34 AM
@ mannix abut making sec 20% smaller i did....primaries still need gluing or whatever to keep em in place....
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:37:27 AM
@agentgates...yes about primaries...i stopped production on it as i was considering 4 phase..and its funny you mention welding...as thats what it will be for at the factory!

Ok, then you need the 3 or 4 primary and perhaps more on the secondary. (mine gives 12V peaks for one turn, yours will give about 24V). But don't ruin that for now as when I am ready with the research with the driving side and get the spikes gently merged I am expecting rising on the output voltage. So don't glue now just give it the 2 or 3 more extra primaries first. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:39:48 AM
Another thing, to make the secondary fit better , wind the think wire over something 20% smaller than your tube. then it will hold itself  snugly when you (carefully)transfer it to the main tube.

Thank you Lindsay. :) Actually this is how I used to do it but it's lazy me... :D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Vortex1 on January 13, 2010, 12:49:40 AM
Watch out for copper oxide rectification which can charge the probe capacitance when driven without a load resistor.

This can give false DC effects, but may disappear at different settings of scope as impedance changes or small oxide breaks over.

Can be especially bad if a torch was used to remove the formvar (varnish) insulation

Best to solder the load resistor directly to clean copper secondary wires, then probe across the resistor.

Regards...V
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
@V

Thank you for the helpful comment. :)

@broli

Thank you for the next amazing 3D work. Well done mate. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 13, 2010, 01:35:23 AM
@agentgates

Keep the good work , i have so say it is a pretty good design transformer , i use it on a joule thief circuit , and it works great , almost like a regular toroid .

The coupling  between the coils is great . and that even at less the 1.5 volts.

So now i am testing different things , on my first device i was getting about one volts per secondary turn now over 7v.

I am waiting on a signal gen to get into the real stuff .

Thank again !

Ps don't mind Marco he is the boss of the tpu circus . I hoped that hiding the tpu tread in the ou prize helped keeping it low profile , before all the naysayer picked up the sent of controversy .


 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 02:03:47 AM
Mk1  Thats sweet that you got it going with a jt.  So the output is dc? And what freq are you running at?
It is a good thing to know an alternative to running one.
You said it works like a normal toroid. Does that mean that the output current goes down as the voltage goes up?
I have an alternative also that I am going to try. My self oscillating reed coil setup. Im going to set it up so the bemf spike is sent to the primary. It will be around 250v. I plan on running my washer and dryer with it. lol  I dunno what is going to come out.  Ok  gunna fire up the twizzler.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 02:18:22 AM
Mags, I know the questions for Mk1 but I would answer some of those things I can:

And what freq are you running at?

This device is not freq sensitive. You can fire it with either a high resistance pull-down res on the FET's gate and touch the gate with your gate voltage output of the PSU.

Does that mean that the output current goes down as the voltage goes up?

Your output (both voltage and current) should depend on the diameter and length of your secondary, also the voltage you put on the primary. When you increase the primary voltage the hump is slowly growing out of your 0 voltage line and going higher and higher. After a certain level it does not make a difference whether you go above with the input because the secondary gets magnetically saturated. This is the maximum voltage you need on the input to get the maximum out of your output.

Later when you will do it with 3 primary in 120 degrees out of phase you will noticed that the increasing of input voltage also gets the spikes a bit closer each other. Approximetaly 100% increase on the input voltage decreases the pulse delay with 20% while the pulses go higher and higher.

UPDATE1

If you're using CRO please read Lindsay's message as he experienced something with it that can cause failure if you ignore.


UPDATE2

Ok Gentleman I glued the last thing on it. Hope it will be as solid as concrete and then pop the primaries on tomorrow. Now I drop a nap and will be back sometime at GMT 11AM tomorrow.

Take care and good luck until then.

Kind Regards
Tony
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 13, 2010, 02:22:23 AM
Mk1  Thats sweet that you got it going with a jt.  So the output is dc? And what freq are you running at?
It is a good thing to know an alternative to running one.
You said it works like a normal toroid. Does that mean that the output current goes down as the voltage goes up?
I have an alternative also that I am going to try. My self oscillating reed coil setup. Im going to set it up so the bemf spike is sent to the primary. It will be around 250v. I plan on running my washer and dryer with it. lol  I dunno what is going to come out.  Ok  gunna fire up the twizzler.

Mags

First of i don't have a scope , so as far as freq goes i used a basic jt circuit
so range of freq it works at looks to be the same as a toroid i usually use .

Now what is it , DC OR AC , lets say i don't read anything on the secondary with my meter unless i use a bridge , but that said , with out diode a led light only in on direction , so it as a dc feel to it , but is seems different some how , i wish i had a scope .

I tried 2 phase like the regular center tap jt each going to make an opposing field , got voltage out up to 7 volt per turn , but that is 18 turns push and 18 turn pull . I also use a toroid to make a pull pull try , by making one turn of each 18 turn coil one the toroid one in reverse so the jt circuit would still work , i got about 10 v out of 6 turns .

Also i made a 3 secondary one , they worked pretty good .

So in the end it works in the usual jt parameters , freq ,multi secondary .

I got other winding idea i will not discuss here , in order to keep on subject .

But so far i see a alternative to the regular ferro magnetic toroid .

Btw i don't have amps reading i got a bad fuse.

Edit i did get higher output volts with higher primary turns , i am at 18 i am shooting for 36 tonight most likely early morning.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 13, 2010, 02:22:33 AM
Tony it's a bit confusing talking about phase degrees with square waves. I assume that 120 degrees out of phase means that the next pulse starts 1/3 of the on time later?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 02:29:30 AM
Tony it's a bit confusing talking about phase degrees with square waves. I assume that 120 degrees out of phase means that the next pulse starts 1/3 of the on time later?

Yes broli you are also right. :) Some were confused by the 1/3 I said, so I will use both terms next time. ;)

Take care and good luck, I'll have a bath and nap now. :)

Many thanks for your help in advance. :)

Kind Regards
Tony
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 02:49:25 AM
I was thinking the same broli

If one coil is on as the next turns on, it doesnt seem like it would affect the secondary due to there already being a field produced. But I can see the individual crossings separating that train of thought.

Well i measured the twizzler. The primary is 50 turns of hair wire at 8.32 ohms And the secondary is .02 ohm.
Taking the bemf off of a 0.8 ohm coil set up with a Big reed and a reed activator mag that closes the reed and the coil counters the mag and it oscillates. Using 5v nimh 4 AA. The capture is done by 2  22 mf caps off the osc. coil leads to a bridge. As the bemf dumps thru the 2 caps off each leg of the osc coil, that pulse on the other end of the caps enters the bridge like a pump, electrically isolated from the osc, which should give a large dc pulse at the other end of the bridge.
 I put it to the primary of the twizzler coil.
I dont see anything on the secondary  AC or DC. But that is with a meter.
The twizzler is not THE coil so those results dont count as a negative test.
Will play a bit more, the I gota break out the 555 dog, and drops some fets on yo a$$.  Magrapp

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 13, 2010, 06:05:35 AM
Hello all,

@Roberto

can you give me your mail adress??

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 13, 2010, 07:24:27 AM
A all,

Im wondering why some particle accelerators look like the bottom of a open  TPU. Im talking about accelerators that are a few kilometers - miles in diameter!!
Its only from my memory because I saw the videos only 2 ot 3 times.

Again, please NO PMs because I can read them but NOT answer.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on January 13, 2010, 07:54:24 AM
Hi,

those who thinks about the winding geometry of this device may want to consider this posting from energeticforum.com
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4587-marko-rodin-15.html#post77884

In his follow up postings user 'rococo' also supplied drawings of the different patterns. Unfortunately you can only see the drawings when you are logged into the forum.

Hope this is not too far off topic.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 13, 2010, 08:21:22 AM
A all,

Im wondering why some particle accelerators look like the bottom of a open  TPU. Im talking about accelerators that are a few kilometers - miles in diameter!!
Its only from my memory because I saw the videos only 2 ot 3 times.

Again, please NO PMs because I can read them but NOT answer.

Otto

Im confused, why not?  That is an interesting observation, by the way.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 13, 2010, 09:15:15 AM
Hello all,

@Super God and All of you

I saw a lot of photos of the big particle accelerators.

They are ALWAYS round and some of them have a little ring sitting inside a much bigger ring.

If my memory serves me, watch the video where a open TPU is shown.

A little ring inside a big ring will even more accelerate the particles.

NOW "TRANSLATE" this into a tpu and you will finally understand why NOBODY of you has a working TPU!!!

Got it what Im talking about??

Otto

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 13, 2010, 09:34:51 AM
A all,

Im wondering why some particle accelerators look like the bottom of a open  TPU. Im talking about accelerators that are a few kilometers - miles in diameter!!
Its only from my memory because I saw the videos only 2 ot 3 times.

Again, please NO PMs because I can read them but NOT answer.

Otto

probably more related is this work done by Russian:

The Linear Accelerator - Generator Axion (Spin) Field
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/N2_97/Gen_A.htm
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/N1_98/Axion_ba.htm

see the circuit "The High-Frequency Three-Phase Generator" for the torsion generator
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/3n00/ShemaA.htm

see mechanical device more clear
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/N3_95/S4_1a.htm

Some effect on people
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/1n9/effectE.htm

warning
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/1n00/weapons.htm

more to read
http://www.spinfields.hut2.ru/ALMANACH/AxionA.htm
http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/Shpilman/Properties.htm
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 11:33:57 AM
Hi All,

@Otto

[off]Particle accelerators is a very big category like air vehicles also very interesting but we are not looking to understand other than ours. :)

The inner ring you mean is used at large torroid PAs for central timing as when you have a large structure with driving coils several hundres of meters away they have to be driven from the same distance as electron flow also has a delay. Otherwise if there is only a few billionth of a second delay than necessary the whole thing will not work as expected or won't work at all. Fortunatelly we don't need to bother that, we have tiny devices. :)[/off]

@All

Glue is solid so I can pop the primaries on and hook it up in an hour or so. ;)

UPDATE1

LOL I screwd up Stefan's coil again...  ;D Fortunately I can fix it. I've put 2 more turns on of one of the secondaries and they are not symmetrical now. :D


UPDATE2

Guys it is so ugly. But I don't care, he deserves it... ;) He has joined to the evil sceptic's side and broadcasting the negative subliminal messages from his hideout... ;D
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130291.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130291.JPG)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 13, 2010, 12:12:10 PM
Hello all,

@agentgates

you nailed it, we have tiny devices!!  but this tiny devices are also particle accelerators and if you fail with the 3 frequencies they will also fail.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tadejstenta on January 13, 2010, 12:15:36 PM
oh, that is so cooooool?

How long did you built it?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 13, 2010, 12:27:34 PM
Good morning Tony
@All
[Well it is here]
Nice coil,
When it does as you say Stefan will keep it under his pillow at night ;D

I know you work with the window open but these glues
MUST be directly vented
Quote:
"LOL I screwd up Stefan's coil again"

These can make you impaired without realizing.

Clothes dryer hose and small fan over work station[vented to nearby window] is what I use when electroplating with cyanide and acid solutions,[HCn]
Works VERY well!![doing this 15 years]

How are you making the notches? I see no melting.
I'm going to attack this glue/tape/shrink wrap[heated] thing best I can
Will post pics If I get anywhere
Chet
PS
I loved your head banging comment
Very funny[still]
Thanks ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:45:14 PM
@Otto

Thanks but I am already at that stage to be clear with what I need to get it run. I only need to hook it up and apply the gathered knowledge - will happen in an hour. :) I can already create enough spikes with the 3 primaries at very low freq, only need to increase the freq, get the spikes closer and put a sexy bulb on it. (If the diverters/negative characters wont misbehave until then I will also hook up an ammeter for them to help their masturbation at OU light... ;) )

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 12:55:43 PM
Good morning Tony
@All
[Well it is here]
Nice coil,
When it does as you say Stefan will keep it under his pillow at night ;D

Good morning Ramset. :)

LOL @ pillow :D

I know you work with the window open but these glues
MUST be directly vented

Yes I've already bought the necessary things but had no time to install them.

Quote:
"LOL I screwd up Stefan's coil again"

These can make you impaired without realizing.

I already fixed that.

Clothes dryer hose and small fan over work station[vented to nearby window] is what I use when electroplating with cyanide and acid solutions,[HCn]
Works VERY well!![doing this 15 years]

Alright! :) Mine will go to the extractors ventillation pipe.


How are you making the notches? I see no melting.

I make the notches with a saw blade. What do you mean under melting? The glue? That is the clear patch on and between the wires. :D Perhaps you can't see it clearly on photo.

I'm going to attack this glue/tape/shrink wrap[heated] thing best I can
Will post pics If I get anywhere
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 13, 2010, 01:14:15 PM
@agentgates

as all the people here I wish you a really big success. I MEAN IT!!

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 01:16:12 PM
@Otto

Thank you, I am on it. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tanakat on January 13, 2010, 02:05:00 PM
Same Here, keep us posted ;) and again, thanks for sharing with us.

Peace
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 13, 2010, 02:14:45 PM
Wow ! Thanks oscar.
I will spend a few hours studying that. (and I hate mathematics)  ;D



Hi,

those who thinks about the winding geometry of this device may want to consider this posting from energeticforum.com
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4587-marko-rodin-15.html#post77884

In his follow up postings user 'rococo' also supplied drawings of the different patterns. Unfortunately you can only see the drawings when you are logged into the forum.

Hope this is not too far off topic.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 13, 2010, 02:25:30 PM
@ agentgates,
nice work, man.
In your next device, try just spray painting the coil with clear acrylic instead of using epoxy. That will bond the wires to the tube and nicely keep them in place.
You can also use cyanoacrylate to tack starting and ending points of small wire on primaries, and then spray paint.

I can't wait to hear about your results.

Altair

EDIT:  to all, if you decide to use paint (or anything in a spray can) on a plastic tube, make some tests beforehand.
Some plastics impede the curing of paints, or get adversely affected by chemicals.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 03:31:24 PM
Ah some new info finally.  Masturbation is necessary!  And the freq can be anywhere from 100 hz n up!

Ok tony  im waiting, winky in hand    lol

Good luck  And if the results are low on the standard, please just show it anyway, lay it on the line so we can help in proceeding.  =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 13, 2010, 04:18:47 PM
I am going to buy Campaign bottle to celebrate. Agents where do I ship one for you? PM me please.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: JonahUK on January 13, 2010, 05:13:44 PM
@AgentGates

I'm no electronics expert but I do a lot of coding in many different languages and systems and something is screaming out at me here that I'm sure would assist this testing process.

I'm sure one of the many talented electronics wizards here can create a simple circuit to send a detectable signal back to one of the Arduino inputs when and if your design produces the desired OU output. If so you could put an outer loop in the Adruino pulse code to increment / decrement the individual delays on the primary(s) which would automate the whole testing process. Many different intervals could be tested for periods of say 5 seconds and then changed. Any signal detected on the Arduino input could be logged in a file for further testing perhaps by other members who have recreated your designs.

This system could then be left almost indefinitely automatically trying different timings on the primary(s).

I'm sure I could assist with coding this if you need it.

Good luck and keep at it.

Jonah.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 05:47:06 PM
@Jonah

Hello and many thanks for your kind offer to help with Arduino. It would be handy as many of these guys don't have other than Arduino and presently I can not dedicate time to figure out Arduino's deep secrets. :(

As for me I have a programmable HF waveform/pattern generator with 500MHz internal clock speed and 12 bit pulse output 6 input so I can work with it faster than with Arduino but I am sure they would be very glad to your help.

@All

The last primary is on and the las layer of glue is drying. In the meantime I solder the terminations and finish the programming on the pattern generator. (that is not a big deal)

@broli

I showed your amazing 3D presentation to a friend of mine and I noticed something. On your pics you have 4 large spheres indicating the first primary winding at every 90 degrees, however it should be 120 with 3 spheres. I think you misunderstood the 45 degrees thing. :) The 45 degrees is measured on the side of the coil, so you need 60-60 degrees around. May I ask you to please put a note on it on your website as presently we don't know if a coil would work in the expected way with those parameters. (Naturally we will find out later on)

I think many people got confused here with their coils. For those who have problems with results, here is the formula again how to calculate the length of the tube to get the 45 degrees:

l = (d x PI) / 6

"l" gives the length of tube to cut
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 13, 2010, 05:54:42 PM
@broli

I showed your amazing 3D presentation to a friend of mine and I noticed something. On your pics you have 4 large spheres indicating the first primary winding at every 90 degrees, however it should be 120 with 3 spheres. I think you misunderstood the 45 degrees thing. :) The 45 degrees is measured on the side of the coil, so you need 60-60 degrees around. May I ask you to please put a note on it on your website as presently we don't know if a coil would work in the expected way with those parameters. (Naturally we will find out later on)

I think many people got confused here with their coils. For those who have problems with results, here is the formula again how to calculate the length of the tube to get the 45 degrees:

l = (d x PI) / 6

"l" gives the length of tube to cut

Yes this is why I'm remaking the renditions. In time I will upgrade all the images.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 06:01:02 PM
@broli

Oh many thanks for it and for your instant reply. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 13, 2010, 06:04:04 PM
How do you get a lazy conservative slave(Electron) to do work? you crack the whip on it(Wavelength), to make it work more efficient you must speak the same language(Frequency), the amplitude of your voice makes it more demanding.

I hope this analogy is helpful.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 06:11:47 PM
How do you get a lazy conservative slave(Electron) to do work? you crack the whip on it(Wavelength), to make it work more efficient you must speak the same language(Frequency), the amplitude of your voice makes it more demanding.

I hope this analogy is helpful.

Jerry ;)

That is nice. :) What exactly happening in subatomic level is not 100% clear. I have a theory that I will try to make solid in the nex couple of days, until then I wouldn't push it hard to get people confused if that wouldn't fit. But what is already sure is that we spin them up to a very high speed at the intersecting points outside and they just start flowing spontanously. (The deeper understanding in this process is what I am expecting in the next couple of days)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 06:27:40 PM
But will we see it before you complete the theory?  =]

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: SPP-48 on January 13, 2010, 06:46:28 PM

I think many people got confused here with their coils. For those who have problems with results, here is the formula again how to calculate the length of the tube to get the 45 degrees:

l = (d x PI) / 6

"l" gives the length of tube to cut

Hi Tony

Using the formula gives me a height of 41.89mm for an 80mm diameter tube. Is this correct. I recall you were using a 70mm high coil originally.

l = (80 x 3.142)/6 = 41.89mm

Cheers

Sam



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 13, 2010, 06:49:22 PM
007
Patience Grasshopper ;D

This will do what it does!! :o :o :o
[Don't ask me what "that" is]

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 07:01:22 PM
Hi Tony

Using the formula gives me a height of 41.89mm for an 80mm diameter tube. Is this correct. I recall you were using a 70mm high coil originally.

l = (80 x 3.142)/6 = 41.89mm

Cheers

Sam

Hi Sam,

Please ignore my very first coil I posted (70mm length). Somebody suggested a 45 degrees on sides to try, I did and was doing well so we agreed to stick to the 45 as a "standard" thus everybody will get the same coil and we can minimise the chance to make a mistake. Later we will vary every parameters, but for now we stay at the 45 degrees.

Yes, BTW the ~40mm is correct. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 13, 2010, 07:08:51 PM
@agentgates

Your formula for 45 degree angle is incorrect.

Check my last post withdrawings.

In order to get 45 degree angle in this particular case:

R = H (radius = height)

Minde
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 07:13:19 PM
Ramset

I know. It is hard to hear a couple more days after a couple more days, thats all.  Its almost like having a missing person in your life and being told that they were found but keep delaying the homecoming again and again.
And Im sure we are all anxious. I worry about it all being manipulated before the real deal makes it to the plate.

Now if I had Natasha, you know the hot russian chick in my life raft that we escaped in after Coil Fingers superconducting boat of doom exploded, I would send her over to to give gates a pep talk.  lol

Hop grasser
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 07:24:05 PM
Well I gota head out. Hate to miss anything.

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 13, 2010, 07:30:46 PM
@Minde

No, my formula is absolutely correct. ;)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130294.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130294.JPG)

@Magluvin

Ramset is right. So please be patient. :)

BTW, this is the sequence on that track you're about to get us to join you. They are each a cause of the the next one in the list:

1. Overexcitement.
2. Impatience.
3. Rush.
4. Skipping important steps.
5. Mistake.
6. Failure.
7. Loosing your energy.
8. Turning back.
9. Keep repeating the above process until the big turn:
10. Loosing faith in what you are doing.
11. Need to protect yourself against others critisism.
12. Blaming others for your failure to protect your social rank.
13. Depression.
14. Worse...

It is a well tried out way and you don't need to go too far to verify it, just look around on this site and/or watch Marco's video. A very good lesson.

Be a perfectionist and don't get overexcited when you have a little success! If they are each a cause of the next one you can eliminate all of them in the list by getting rid of the first one.

UPDATE

Need to get a 2-3 hours rest guys, my heart is not doing well. I'll be back right after and hook it up.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 13, 2010, 07:57:59 PM
I hear ya ton. Im cool.  I dont really have many good things going good for me at this time, and just the reality that this is possible, will bring a tear to my eye that this will do good for all. Good luck

I had an experience where someone at fizzx said they figured out how AL got he whipmag to work, and I wasnt the only one impatiently awaiting the answer. It took a bit to get that answer and the answer was a secret motor drive. 

Take care of that heart and again  good luck.   Now Im really late. =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: minde4000 on January 13, 2010, 08:52:22 PM
@agentgates

I gave you a geometrical/mathematical proof. You show me a rudder?...
Your formula is close. R = H is dead on.

I wont debate about this anymore.

Best of luck

Minde
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 13, 2010, 09:01:23 PM
@minde

your fromula used 6.25 the square root of which is 2.5, shouldn't it have been 5.0625 square root of which is 2.25? Please check your formula and tell me where 6.25 comes from
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 09:38:57 PM
Hi,

those who thinks about the winding geometry of this device may want to consider this posting from energeticforum.com
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4587-marko-rodin-15.html#post77884

In his follow up postings user 'rococo' also supplied drawings of the different patterns. Unfortunately you can only see the drawings when you are logged into the forum.

Hope this is not too far off topic.


Thank you for the info!

@agentgates
                     That build brought a tear to my eye  :'( , so beautiful , i can't wait to slam it with all kinds of frequencies!Where can i send you a care package?

btw....your spacings look like you had a rotary table, did you do tht by hand?...great work!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 13, 2010, 10:21:26 PM
@agentgates

I gave you a geometrical/mathematical proof. You show me a rudder?...
Your formula is close. R = H is dead on.

I wont debate about this anymore.

Best of luck

Minde

Did you consider the curvature of the tube? Just like a square the sides have to be equal to have a 45° angle. This is why the height of the tube has to be equal to the arc length of the tube part where the diagonal line spans across. If no tube is used then indeed H = radius.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 13, 2010, 10:51:35 PM
@ minde4000
                  i believe those derivations may be incompatible for the differential changes which take place on a curved spline...though they are negligible at small radiuses, they become substantial with larger ones.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 13, 2010, 11:02:34 PM
@minde

Have you made a coil , i believe not .

The problem i see with your equation is that it will not permit making more the few turns before you get to the exact same position , overlapping the turns.

You will see if you build it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: beboszek on January 13, 2010, 11:25:30 PM
@ Tony
Is this the effect You are observing driving your TPU?

experiment description: Tpu with one driving coil, ONE TURN of collector loaded with 2.2ohm/3W resistor and white LED parallel. Diode light is very bright, voltage measured on the 2.2ohm load You can see on the scope. Input power about 12W, output about 1W. Still far from from OU, but for me there is something goin on in this device (Im an electronic engineer). Btw, this setup IS frequency dependent. The highest power occurs when freq=33kHz

Marek
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 13, 2010, 11:35:39 PM
@ Tony
Is this the effect You are observing driving your TPU?

experiment description: Tpu with one driving coil, ONE TURN of collector loaded with 2.2ohm/3W resistor and white LED parallel. Diode light is very bright, voltage measured on the 2.2ohm load You can see on the scope. Input power about 12W, output about 1W. Still far from from OU, but for me there is something goin on in this device (Im an electronic engineer). Btw, this setup IS frequency dependent. The highest power occurs when freq=33kHz

Marek

Try more turns maybe 2-3 secondaries of 2-6 turns each....see what happens and also what is the voltage input?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 13, 2010, 11:42:16 PM
Hi Marek,
is this the scopeshot across the 2.2 Ohm resistor ?
How does your input voltage look from across the input coil
at 33 Khz ?
Is it a 50/50 duty cycle square wave ?

Hmm, the positive hump wavehill is mysterious there.
Please try with different load resistors and without load resistors
and with more turns and please post more scopeshots.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 14, 2010, 12:15:00 AM
Quote from: hartiberlin link=topic=8586.msg222188#msg222188 =1263422536
Hmm, the positive hump wavehill is mysterious there.

I think the shape of the waveform is partially due to the load being a resistor and diode in parallel.  On the positive swings, the ohmic load is distributed across the resistor and the LED;  1/Rtotal = 1/Rresistor + 1/Rdiode, while on negative swings, the coil only sees the resistor.  One way to mitigate this without removing the LED entirely would be to wire two LEDs in parallel, but with opposite polarities so that one or the other diode will pass current regardless of the polarity of the applied pulse.  Even then, the overall resistance will still fluctuate because of the nature of the diodes' response curves, (esp. at high frequencies).
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 14, 2010, 12:44:35 AM
Hi Marek

Thank you for your post. :)

@ Tony
Is this the effect You are observing driving your TPU?

Similar, but I don't have those ugly "afterhumps". :) Only the big ones. You perhaps driving it in current mode. (that is not good) The pulse length should be around 500ns depending on your setup but it never changed proportionally with my setups.

I meant "not freq sensitive" that those spikes come at any frequencies at approximatelly the same length. You can make those powerful spikes even without generators. Also they will be far stronger when you'll fire the 2 other coils in sequence.

These spikes won't even change in my previous setup (3 primary with the same one turn secondary, 20-30V 100-200mA, 87Hz) when I put a 50W 240 halogene bulb on it. They just don't care about your load.

Some interesting things I noticed:
1. There are not only stronger but lot more spikes when you drive all the 3 coils.
2. By only increasing the input voltage they are coming closer and closer a bit, some kind of spin-up effect.
3. I also observed a "jump-together" effect. When I increased the input voltage I zoomed the scope to observe closer the growing of a spike. A single spike grows out gently from the ground line. By just keep on increasing the input voltage, after reaching a certain level other spikes RAPIDLY jump out. So there is some kind of critical level that when you reach with the input voltage the number of these pretty curvy spikes rapidly multiplies. (it happened somewhere between 15V-20V)
4. I kept on increasing the input voltage and found another thing that might be interesting. There is a next voltage limit that when you reach they stop growing immediately. (IMHO the secondary gets saturated magnetically)

experiment description: Tpu with one driving coil, ONE TURN of collector loaded with 2.2ohm/3W resistor and white LED parallel. Diode light is very bright, voltage measured on the 2.2ohm load You can see on the scope. Input power about 12W, output about 1W. Still far from from OU, but for me there is something goin on in this device (Im an electronic engineer). Btw, this setup IS frequency dependent. The highest power occurs when freq=33kHz

Yes you can not make OU with one primary without other parts like a good LC pair.

12W is HUGE in consumption Marek. You need a current limiter resistor in series with your primary as this is not a current device. It is strongly a voltage device - as I found in the meantime. I think this is one of the many of those things were the other lads failed over the years, they just instinctly tried to handle it as a transformer where you have to punch the current hard through the wires if you want result. (I also did it :D ) Set your primary resistance somewhere between 15-22ohms to find the optimum of your coil. My present setup likes 15 and 18ohms 3-5W resistor in series on the common ground.

I think the latter will eliminate those ugly "afterhumps".

I hope I could help. Good luck. :)

Kind Regards
Tony

PS: I am currently writing the code for the PG to tickle this thing from as many angles I can and opefully I can tell about the results tomorrow.

UPDATE

Set your primary resistance to an optimum level when you can drive it between 100-200mA up to ~25V. (there is no point to go above as I noticed)

Another thing I have forgotten, when you get that "jump-together" thingy your power consumption will fall back rapidly in the same time. About to the half.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 14, 2010, 12:58:45 AM
@zerotensor

Yes you're right but he also drives it in current mode and that thing is tring to be a back EMF pulse due to the high current he puts in and perhaps the res+diode pair rectifies it. :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 14, 2010, 01:04:38 AM
Ok the revised page is up, I hope all the parameters are correct now. The link is at:

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm

Perhaps this can be put in the first post so new comers can directly see the latest design?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 14, 2010, 01:16:45 AM
@broli

Thank you for your ambitious work again. :) However I can not see change on the page.

I can not modify my first post. :( There are many things I would like to change there but somehow the "Modify" button disappeared.

UPDATE

Code is ready but I feel dizzy so I have a rest. Think this glue is a poison to smell.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 14, 2010, 01:25:38 AM
@broli

Thank you for your ambitious work again. :) However I can not see change on the page.

I can not modify my first post. :( There are many things I would like to change there but somehow the "Modify" button disappeared.


Try hitting Ctrl+F5. Ask Stefan for updating the first post. And don't burn yourself out, eat and sleep healthy. Free energy and health should be both important to the tinkerers here.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2010, 01:35:06 AM
Tony
Hook up the vent
the glue will affect you!!

don't just open a window get the vent going PLEASE
Dryer vent hose, small computer fan stick the hose out the window put foam/pillows around to seal

Chet

Broli
you can PM Stefan to add that info to first page
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 14, 2010, 02:27:05 AM
Ok the revised page is up, I hope all the parameters are correct now. The link is at:

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm

Perhaps this can be put in the first post so new comers can directly see the latest design?

Beautiful great work Broli, thank you.

Just for completion, since your one site for ALL info has the best coil representation, would you be able to also show there the wire sizes?

I have ALL the materials to replicate this work, including a programmable 14 channel micro-controller that I used for similar projects where I pulse coils such as this one. So I am dying to start but still a little confused (cleared by your 3Ds concerning the geometry) about the wire sizes.

Fausto.

ps: pdf below might be usefull for those trying to coil in such large cylinders.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 03:14:53 AM
Hope ya feel better Gates.  Glue can get ya. Car fumes get me good. Migraine. Starts with fuzzy vision then about 20 min later its a pounder.  More the cars that produce more carbon monoxide, due to no catalytic, bad catalytic, runs rich.
Was looking at scopes on ebay and a fairly descent one can be had for a reasonable price. I had one years ago but wasnt using it for a while and a friend needed one. So I sold it.  Gunna buy one.

Thats interesting about the voltage increase affects the outcome. The what it does, sounds out there, but I gotta accept that there are things that are not known by many.

Hop Grasser
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: tanakat on January 14, 2010, 03:17:41 AM
@plengo

The latest post I could find was this one :

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8586.msg221148#msg221148 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8586.msg221148#msg221148)

Tony talks about :

0.19mm primary coils. Altogether 3 primary wound on the acrylic tube in the same manner. 45 degrees angle to the centreline and 10 degrees between the same primary coil. Each primary coil has 3.33 degrees offset to the previous one.

You can assume from the top of the post that the secondary uses 0.74mm

Hope it helps you

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 14, 2010, 03:51:57 AM
Wire size:
for americans, 0.19mm is AWG 32  :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2010, 04:04:04 AM
Fausto
Thanks for the PDF,nice to see you here.
@Altair
Thanks for the wire size.
@Hop Grasser
you from NY?

G night Fellas

Chet

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 04:07:34 AM
Ramset
Na  Ft Laud.  orig  Penn.

Magsinthesun   But its cold out!

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 14, 2010, 04:25:16 AM
Is there a video showing the jump together effect?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 14, 2010, 04:53:59 AM
Quote from: agentgates link=topic=8586.msg222231#msg222231 =1263428205
I can not modify my first post. :( There are many things I would like to change there but somehow the "Modify" button disappeared.

It's a good thing you can't modify your first post.  Many people have responded to it, and if you were to change it, the essence of the conversation might be corrupted.  It makes all kinds of sense to lock-out edits after a certain amount of time has elapsed in a forum like this, as it precludes members' ability to "re-write history", so-to-speak.  I'm not suggesting that this is what you intend, but still, for the integrity of the thread, I suggest that you just compose a new post which incorporates whatever modifications / corrections you wish to convey.  It's more "transparent" that way.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 14, 2010, 05:09:19 AM
It's a good thing you can't modify your first post.  Many people have responded to it, and if you were to change it, the essence of the conversation might be corrupted.  It makes all kinds of sense to lock-out edits after a certain amount of time has elapsed in a forum like this, as it precludes members' ability to "re-write history", so-to-speak.  I'm not suggesting that this is what you intend, but still, for the integrity of the thread, I suggest that you just compose a new post which incorporates whatever modifications / corrections you wish to convey.  It's more "transparent" that way.

There's a difference between modifying and adding. Out of personal experience I like first posts having the substance of the thread and being updated as significant milestones are reached. I don't know about you but reading an entire thread just to get to some fundamental spec is very inefficient. The thread is made for discussion and progress to reach said milestones. Not a waiste of time where new commers spent hours going through it just to find a single page useful. After they are quickly "briefed" on the current situation by the first post they can immediately become part of the discussion by not having to read the entire thread. This is imo more efficient.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 14, 2010, 05:30:18 AM
I will let AgentGates modify his first post,
when he will finally show something from the old setup or
the new setup.

We are still waiting for promised photos and videos
of his old setup, where he said he could
light a 50 Watts bulbs.

The hump wave from Marek looks interesting, but maybe it is really
from the diode ?
We don´t know the groundline on his scopeshot and have
no further info on the volts/div and at which device location it was exactly taken.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: zerotensor on January 14, 2010, 06:13:59 AM
Quote from: broli link=topic=8586.msg222298#msg222298 =1263442159
...After they are quickly "briefed" on the current situation by the first post they can immediately become part of the discussion by not having to read the entire thread. This is imo more efficient.

Yes if it's just updates or well-documented corrections, then I agree with you-- but in general I still think it is wise to have a time limit on edits -- even for the OP -- especially for the first post, actually, since this is what starts the ball rolling.  If there has been enough progress that the original post no longer captures the essence of the situation, then the thread should be closed and a new one started in its place, IMO.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 14, 2010, 06:16:21 AM
@agentgates

quick question: when you say pulse at 50% duty cycle you mean to make a square wave from 0 volts to 30 volts (let's say) and 50% of the time, goes to 0 volts and repeat over again?

You are NOT using AC so that it would go from -30 volts to +30 volts, correct?

If that is the case it makes A LOT OF SENSE to me why this really works.

I wait eagerly for the answer, thanks.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2010, 07:32:25 AM
Tony
Thinking positive !!{this is a very important part, along with patience]

Keeping the "Vibes" going the right way. ;D

Hope you feel better


Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on January 14, 2010, 09:46:38 AM
heloo agentgates GREAT WORK  KEEP GOING DONT  GET LOW WHIT  SOME POST HERE

@harti
way yuo say now that is maybe  <there diode to have the pulse ther in the secundary YOU TRAING TO  PUT DOWN THE  <AGENTGATES>
YOU DONT NEED THIS OK"
I HAVE THING YOU ARE THE .... AND MAKE SUPORT AGENTGATES  <DO YOU SEE THAT HE LIKE TO SHOW SOME GREATED RESOLTS..  WHIT THIS MASEGE YOU ONLY DOING TO PUT DOWN ...................................
OUR FRIEND

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: beboszek on January 14, 2010, 09:54:52 AM
@ Stefan & @zerotensor
Quote
The hump wave from Marek looks interesting, but maybe it is really
from the diode ?
&
Quote
I think the shape of the waveform is partially due to the load being a resistor and diode in parallel.
You are wrong guys! For clarity I will say, that without ANY load waveform looks identical.

@Tony
Quote
Yes you can not make OU with one primary without other parts like a good LC pair.
Tony, for this moment Im doing research, not OU, because the most important thing is to understand the nature of the effect and then maximize it and make useful. Btw, I noticed some very interesting things that will try to work on today.

@Tony
Quote
These spikes won't even change in my previous setup (3 primary with the same one turn secondary, 20-30V 100-200mA, 87Hz) when I put a 50W 240 halogene bulb on it. They just don't care about your load.
Calculate the resistance/impedance of Your bulb and compare it to the output impedance of TPU :) I have the same effect but this one is regular physics.

@Tony
Quote
Similar, but I don't have those ugly "afterhumps".  Only the big ones. You perhaps driving it in current mode.

I know what is the cause of this "afterhumbs", but have to verify this. None of you guys is correct about them. I will write why is that when I gain some more knowledge. Im not a PC hero type.
About current mode: There is no such thing. When you driving your coil with resistor 20ohm in series, how much voltage is left for your few ohms coil? 1/3, 1/10 ? The most of voltage is on the resistor, not a coil. If you want voltage driven coil that means current in it as well


@Stefan
Quote
Please try with different load resistors and without load resistors
and with more turns
With all due respect Stefan; as I wrote above, now Im focused on understanding effect, not building everything and anyhow. If I see sth interesting again, I will post
Yes, its 50% duty cycle sq wave

Marek
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 14, 2010, 10:13:17 AM
@marek

It good to see that somebody else able to see this weird effect.

I do agree that my curiosity is aroused and confused as to its nature, the way is is centred above the unit for example.
It does not couple like a normal coil would.

Tonys explanation does seem to hold some water but even he would agree that its just a theory at this stage

I was surprised that when i reversed my cro leads on the output my reading changed to "normal"

Im am still unable to quantify why I only see it on some ranges..with different cro leads. I have good ones, and cheap ones.

I look foward to your further analysis

lindsay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on January 14, 2010, 10:15:28 AM
@BEBOSEZEK you especkt to find resolts
i thing that you are dont bealeavet in steven devices youlike to see and you see tpu like ordenery devices like transformator but is dont eny like ordenery transformer or athere
i see you dont doing and dont anderstend the principe of device
I LIKE TO TO BE IN THE <@AGENTGATES  TO SUPORT THE ALL HIS ANDERSTENDING OF THE PERFECKT DEVICE
i see here most of here people dont andersten principe when or if you anderstend the you whill traed to make you copy of his devices
dont be angry of this words THIS IS THE BRAIN PROBLEM AND ALL TIME I SEE HERE <IS DONT EXSISIT THIS IS NOT REAL
NOW ASK ALL OF YOU NO <AGENTGATES > WAY YOU ARE HERE IN THIS FORUM<READ THE NAME OF THIS FORUM <OVERUNITY >  IF YOU DONT BEALEAVET THEN THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR YOU .... THEN TRAED TO FIND STANDAR FORUM WOR STANDARD DEVICES
I LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE TO SUPORT NOT TO PUT DOWN <I HAVE LONGTIME AGO POST OF <@MARCO  AND MARCO IS LIKE TO PUT PEOLE DOWN WAY
THAT KIND OF PEOPLE IN DONT NEED THEN HERE.. OR ATHERE LIKE  HIM
YES ASK YOUR SELFS HERE  @HARTI  be more soft whit  maseges here
thanks.......................................................................................
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 14, 2010, 11:23:01 AM
so..um.....why are the intersecting points of the primary on that of the secondary, inducing the electrons to flow spontaneously ???
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: beboszek on January 14, 2010, 12:33:35 PM
Little bulb connected to the collector coil. Shines bright (P~2.5W). Collector made with AWG20 insulated wire. Rectifying diode and capacitor 180u connected as well. Scope shot shows voltage on the bulb and capacitor. Voltage is DC 9.7V "with some hash on it"

@Lindsay
Thanks

@MACEDONIA CD
I do believe in TPU working, you misunderstood me. Please do not write like that any more without knowing what I think

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 14, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
Little bulb connected to the collector coil. Shines bright (P~2.5W). Collector made with AWG20 insulated wire. Rectifying diode and capacitor 180u connected as well. Scope shot shows voltage on the bulb and capacitor. Voltage is DC 9.7V "with some hash on it"

@Lindsay
Thanks



@MACEDONIA CD
I do believe in TPU working, you misunderstood me. Please do not write like that any more without knowing what I think



GREAT  ;D
what you put as input?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: BEP on January 14, 2010, 02:08:59 PM
@ Stefan & @zerotensor & You are wrong guys! For clarity I will say, that without ANY load waveform looks identical.

@StefanWith all due respect Stefan; as I wrote above, now Im focused on understanding effect, not building everything and anyhow. If I see sth interesting again, I will post
Yes, its 50% duty cycle sq wave

Marek

@Marek

Stick with your plan. You have the correct approach.

Have you tried shorting one of the collectors with the shortest possible jumper while carrying a load on another collector?

Good luck!

BEP
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Vortex1 on January 14, 2010, 02:31:16 PM
Nice to have all these running updates in the threads, but why not post a pdf of all pertinent data, schematic, driving frequencies and scope shots e.g

Agentgates Build 1 Rev0. pdf

Agentgates Build 2 Rev3. pdf

This way all the important data can be had for a particular build, what works and doesn't work can be available without trying to piece together fragments from the thread.

It will eliminate a lot of questions that are now being asked individually. Then only information not contained in the pdf will be up for question and this data can be included in the next Rev #

Maybe include the date also in the pdf file name.

Just a suggestion so we can all be on the same page.

Regards...V
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 14, 2010, 02:41:49 PM
Hi All,

@Otto

[off]Particle accelerators is a very big category like air vehicles also very interesting but we are not looking to understand other than ours. :)

The inner ring you mean is used at large torroid PAs for central timing as when you have a large structure with driving coils several hundres of meters away they have to be driven from the same distance as electron flow also has a delay. Otherwise if there is only a few billionth of a second delay than necessary the whole thing will not work as expected or won't work at all. Fortunatelly we don't need to bother that, we have tiny devices. :)[/off]

@All

Glue is solid so I can pop the primaries on and hook it up in an hour or so. ;)

UPDATE1

LOL I screwd up Stefan's coil again...  ;D Fortunately I can fix it. I've put 2 more turns on of one of the secondaries and they are not symmetrical now. :D


UPDATE2

Guys it is so ugly. But I don't care, he deserves it... ;) He has joined to the evil sceptic's side and broadcasting the negative subliminal messages from his hideout... ;D
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130291.JPG (http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1130291.JPG)


Hey agentgates. Long time no see.

The problem is simply that. This is about the first thing I have seen him say that actually is relevant.

The largest problem I have seen with this tech is that everyone and their uncle knows exactly what it is. Therefore, they think they know how it works. One person thinks it is a transformer, another a zero point energy device, a third a harmonic resonance device, and a fourth thinks it is a space modulator... :) (Marvin the martian for the last.)

Truth be told, it is a particle accelerator. Electrons are particles, and it accelerates them from rest into motion. The faster they go, the higher the voltage, the more move at the same time, the higher the current.

I used to tackle this problem logically using straight forward well understood principles of physics. I realized that somethings are not so straight forward or as well understood as I would have liked to believe. I had my own notions about what this thing was, and therefore why it worked...... I was wrong.

I was thinking too much.

How many ways can you think of to spin a merry go round?

1. You can grab a handle and run like heck in circles, forcing the thing to move by brute force from your legs. (High power approach.)

2. You can stand still, and sling it with brute force with a hand. (Pulsing high power)

3. You can start it moving gently, then slap the bars as they come around in a perfectly timed manner. (Very little energy imparted.)

Something I caught from Steven's remarks was that it used a rotating (spinning) magnetic field. I knew he said in two directions, but unconsciously blew this fact off.  However, I think now Steven missed something himself.......... There was more than one field....

If current passes through a wire, remember that there is both a right hand rule, AND a left hand rule.....

If you spin one, you spin the other equally.

Your coil, magnetically speaking, would create a toroidal field which should be spinning horizontally as well as torsionally along its length.

Remember that in a particle accelerator, EITHER a magnetic field, OR an electric field, can be used to accelerate a give type charged particle.

Being blunt of the one thing I now know for a fact, what this device is most certainly NOT is a transformer. Therefor, stop thinking of it as one, as if you apply transformer theory, it will not work.

If it worked solely of off magnetic field cutting of wires, then the collectors would not be horizontal. The magnetic field is just stroking the collectors lengthwise, even with the field rotation considered.

My feeling, and this is just a gut feeling mind you, is that this thing is working off of the electric field.

Paul Andrulis

P.S. Sorry I blew you off way back when you were wanting me to get with you to work on this through e-mail.... All I can say in my defense was that I misconstrued your offer, and jumped to conclusions.. Again, I apologize.

With what I know now, I probably would have been more of an obstruction then anyway.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 14, 2010, 02:59:07 PM
One other thing, before I forget to mention it. (please pardon my typo's... I haven't had any sleep.)

A new principle...

Magnetofriction: The drag placed upon a moving magnetic field due to resistance of motion.

Reduce the friction if possible, as it is like the proverbial merry go round with rusty bearings.

ELectroconstriction: The repellent force applied to electrons caught in between two separate nodes of a warped  or uneven motional electric field.

Something else to consider.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 14, 2010, 03:26:50 PM
As few a more people spend a few hours and 20 bucks (assuming good equipment)

Peoples theories can be proven , duplicated and built on.

I have no Idea except that particles are being moved along wire as I have not seen before.

It is as perplexing as it is is  exciting

the field is above and below the unit but not much to the side.

It has a polarity and creates dc pulse  in  wire imersed in it

The loads seems to have little or no effect on the primary accelerator circuit.

The primary switch on time time must be fast.

It is not frequency dependant but frequency has an effect on how may pulses are there.

If this device can be syncronised with itself it seems many things might be possible.

placing an alluminium can in the centre kills the effect

Tonys explanation is still the best but it is ony for the purpose of visualization.

Untill i can see an electron or whatever they are ,I remain ignorant with the possibility that a better understanding on my part will develop.

Class has begun , now go and get some wire and a tube and join in with no expectation other than you will enjoy the process.
Wether this is ou or not is not important to me at this point


Thanks to all who are able to contribute

I will do some more this weekend  including the reverse wind
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 14, 2010, 03:51:18 PM
Thank you for sharing your findings Lindsay.  I am getting much more output from mine because I am using stranded Speaker Wire on the outside for the Collector.  PLUS, I have many more turns of wire on it.  16 Turns of Speaker Wire equals 32 Turns in Bifilar Mode.

I think everyone here is missing the boat by using only 2 or 3 turns of wire on the Collector.  The SECRET is to use MORE TURNS in BIFLAR mode.


.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 14, 2010, 04:18:44 PM
Here is a diagram of Bifilar in case anyone is interested in trying it.  The benefits are listed on the photo.


.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 14, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
Thank you for sharing your findings Lindsay.  I am getting much more output from mine because I am using stranded Speaker Wire on the outside for the Collector.  PLUS, I have many more turns of wire on it.  16 Turns of Speaker Wire equals 32 Turns in Bifilar Mode.

I think everyone here is missing the boat by using only 2 or 3 turns of wire on the Collector.  The SECRET is to use MORE TURNS in BIFLAR mode.

Fatbird, can you be a bit more specific on your input and output power?
Just mentioning you have more is not helping anyone here.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: itanimuLLi on January 14, 2010, 05:09:58 PM
Tony and Broli You are a great team tank You.
I am following the thread from the biginning and it has developed very professionally. I  see result from other experimenters that proves the theory behind this setup, i know a little about e.e. and this device is not a transformer. if it was there could not be any output. Again thanks for all the efforts, keep the good work and keep on posting.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
Fatbird
Ya know, I did a vid on YT comparing a 100 turn bifi compared to a 100 turn regular coil and the back emf seemed no different than the other. I had played with those coils for quite a bit to see the difference. The only conclusion that I could come to was that the coil reacts differently at resonance, But I dont have the equipment to test that.
I had seen an experiment with a nail wrapped in regular and bifi and it said that the nail had more magnetic strength in bifi, but if it were true then the rotor I did tests on should have turned faster with the bifi with the same input, but there was no difference. So on that, I concluded that the effect must be during a resonant state if it exists.
I have not tried the nail experiment though and also my coils were air core, so with a magnetic core there may be some differences.
If someone could show me differently, I would be thrilled.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2010, 05:12:50 PM
Untill i can see an electron or whatever they are ,I remain ignorant with the possibility that a better understanding on my part will develop.

I was contemplating this device while driving into work today.  I think the secret may have something to do with the interaction of the expanding and contracting magnetic field loops involved in the 45 degree relative wire offset angle.  There must be some sort of twisting of the loops in order to cause induction on the collector.  Perhaps the response loop can not twist back in the same way, so maybe, it twists 45 degrees in the other direction.  All of this combined twisting and untwisting of magnetic field loops may interact with the (aether, cosmic background energy, vacuum energy, earth E-field, whatever you call it,) in some one-way vortex interaction.  It would be interesting to see an attempt to show these magnetic loop interactions using some software tool.

EDIT:  I had a similar idea almost three years ago.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2240.msg29283#msg29283 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2240.msg29283#msg29283)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 05:49:11 PM
Rosphere
There may be other angles that may be better than 45 deg. It seemed as though in the beginning that the angle wasnt 45 deg but then 45 was settled on.  From what I gather Tony had the effect before applying the 45 deg to the list.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 14, 2010, 06:10:45 PM
There must be some sort of twisting of the loops in order to cause induction on the collector.

Is this even possible; twisting of magnetic loops?

Every graphical representation I have seen always shows magnetic loops lying in a plane.  Are magnetic loops planer?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 14, 2010, 06:36:19 PM
@ pauldude
@mannix
                    Thank you very much for your insights, they are very much valued on this end. Helping me wrap mysel around these amazingly new concepts to me!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 06:58:47 PM
Well it seems that some have gotten good results. Cant say for sure.  I suppose that I will have to order a scope and a signal gen and when I see that it works, I can come here and post..    Its yea, go for it,  and thats that. proof beyond belief, no numbers, no specs. and no need for pics n vids.   Man this is easy.    ???   heck Im going to tie my primary in a series of Xmas bows and man that will be the new way.
Cmon guys a lil specs would help tremendously.  I even measured and told my coils ohms, thats a first. 


Agentgates

Just worried, havnt seen you post yet.  Hope all is good.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 14, 2010, 07:44:57 PM
Agentgates

Just worried, havnt seen you post yet.  Hope all is good.

Mags

He has been active 4 hours ago so I wouldn't worry. I hope his silence is a prelude to something big.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: CompuTutor on January 14, 2010, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: Magluvin link=topic=8586.msg222459#msg222459 A=1263487751
.....There may be other angles that may be better than 45 deg.

It seemed as though in the beginning that the angle wasnt 45 deg
but then 45 was settled on.....


Referring to the most recent picture of a coil above,
in this case, FatBird's Post#587 PVC coupler coil form.

If two two rings were notched,
instead of a single tube.

They could be spaced with a sprung center,
then wound straight initially.



After a loose collector winding around the outside,
you could just turn only one of the rings.

That would give you the ability to test all angles.

The angle would go from zero, to well past 45 degrees easily.

And of course, both sides of zero degress
just in case that reveals more anomalies.

They could be spaced with a sprung center,
then wound straight initially.



After a loose collector winding around the outside,
you could just turn only one of the rings.

That would give you the ability to test all angles.

The angle would go from zero, to well past 45 degrees easily.

And of course, both sides of zero degress
just in case that reveals more anomalies.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 14, 2010, 09:22:44 PM

Referring to the most recent picture of a coil above,
in ths A fatbird's #587 PVC coupler coil form.

If two two rings were notched,
instead of a single tube.

They could be spaced with a sprung center,
then wound straight initially.



After a loose collector winding around the outside,
you could just turn only one of the rings.

That would give you the ability to test all angles.

The angle would go from zero, to well past 45 degrees easily.

And of course, both sides if zero degress
just in case that reveals more anomalies.

Sorry that doesn't work , the angle change also require wire length change.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: CompuTutor on January 14, 2010, 09:31:52 PM
I don't follow.

Has a divine aspect ratio been discovered
I didn't catch reading all this?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 14, 2010, 09:32:31 PM
Sorry that doesn't work , the angle change also require wire length change.

I believe that's why he said "sprung center" so that the distance between the rings would be adjusted as opposed to the wire length.

edit: I'm sorry. You're right the secondary coils would need to change length. I'll go back to silent observing!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: CompuTutor on January 14, 2010, 09:34:46 PM
Correct bullsnbears1
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Talath on January 14, 2010, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: CompuTutor link=topic=8586.msg222514#msg222514 A=1263499936

Referring to the most recent picture of a coil above,
in this case, FatBird's Post#587 PVC coupler coil form.

If two two rings were notched,
instead of a single tube.

They could be spaced with a sprung center,
then wound straight initially.



After a loose collector winding around the outside,
you could just turn only one of the rings.

That would give you the ability to test all angles.

The angle would go from zero, to well past 45 degrees easily.

And of course, both sides of zero degress
just in case that reveals more anomalies.

They could be spaced with a sprung center,
then wound straight initially.



After a loose collector winding around the outside,
you could just turn only one of the rings.

That would give you the ability to test all angles.

The angle would go from zero, to well past 45 degrees easily.

And of course, both sides of zero degress
just in case that reveals more anomalies.

I had to think about this for a moment.  ???  Now I understand what you're saying :)  and the idea is a great test coil for varying primary angle.  Naturally the "tube" length would change as you rotate one ring to adjust the crossover angle, but the diameter and the primary wire length would remain the same.  In essence, as you looked down the bore of the tube, the inner primary windings would look like an iris aperature as you counter-rotated the rings.  You could also change it from a lefthand to a righthand tube instantly.  Perfect!

It couldn't actually be sprung though, else the angle would be 90°, as the spring came to full extension.

I'm wondering how the angle of the secondary in relation to the angle of the parallelogram produced by the primaries would affect the individual fields' density, and their electron incidence on the secondary.  Right now everything is circumferential on the secondary, without respect to its crossover position to the parallelogram.  Definately a lot of dynamics to consider...  What about other than round cross-sectional extrusions for the primary wire?  Would a sharp edge intensify the spin?  Printed primary tube?

-T  :)

edited -  The more that I think about this setup, the more I realize that the inner primary winding would be further from the outer winding as you counter rotated the rings, with the largest separation being halfway up the height of the tube... the center of the iris as viewed down the tube bore.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 14, 2010, 11:03:05 PM
For the people with the coils and scopes. Could you do a side by side experiment with the same power and loads but using conventional coils. By winding 12 conventional windings per primary on a same sized tube and the same amount of secondary windings used with the special tony coil. This would be a good reference.

@tony do I understand it correctly that the acceleration phenomena happens in the primaries and that the secondary is just picking up the changing magnetic field according to Faraday's equation?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 14, 2010, 11:03:31 PM
I believe that's why he said "sprung center" so that the distance between the rings would be adjusted as opposed to the wire length.

edit: I'm sorry. You're right the secondary coils would need to change length. I'll go back to silent observing!

I had a similar idea some days ago:

On a very side note (from a PC hero without any testing skills):
I am sure some of you thought already about changing the 45 degrees later on.
I was thinking of a variable angle toroid, which would have a plastic ring on top and also at the bottom (for holding the primaries), and these two could be twisted independently from eachother, connected with a plastic rod in the middle of the toroid. Of course, the upper ring would go a bit up/down, in order not to damage the primary winding.
In other words, the primaries would be sitting on these twistable rings, while the secondary would be still on a PVC/toalet paper  ;) .
Thus, you could tune the angle while the device is turned on.


What i don't understand is why would you need to modify the collector coil? Can't it remain untouched, while the inner primary coil is being adjusted independently?

Viktor
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Talath on January 14, 2010, 11:15:45 PM
Victor,  I thought about that too.  With the "convertible" model, the secondary diameter would need to change too.  Unfortunately as the notched rings are rotated, there is no solid wall to support the outer primary windings.  Winding the primaries on a fixed tube produces a curved outer primary winding path and a straight inner winding path.  The difference in distance between the inner and outer primary winding elements is shortest at the tube ends, and longest half-way up (or down) the tube height.  It isn't constant.  With the "convertible" notched-ring model proposed above, the distance between the inner and outer elements of the primary windings would be constant.  As you counter-rotate the notched rings, it would produce a primary coil with a waist, as viewed from the outside, and an iris, as viewed down the bore.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 14, 2010, 11:18:46 PM
Little bulb connected to the collector coil. Shines bright (P~2.5W). Collector made with AWG20 insulated wire. Rectifying diode and capacitor 180u connected as well. Scope shot shows voltage on the bulb and capacitor. Voltage is DC 9.7V "with some hash on it"

@Lindsay
Thanks

@MACEDONIA CD
I do believe in TPU working, you misunderstood me. Please do not write like that any more without knowing what I think

Hi beboszek,
please can you let us know, where your ground line is on the scope ?
Is it in the center ?
So did you connect the scopeheads inverted so this voltage
goes negative ?

Otherwise well done, but what was your input power ?

As you have a dual trace scope, please also show your
driver signal at the input coil in the second beam.

This negative hump wavehill is very interesting and we
have to find out, how this is generated.
Many thanks for your efforts.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 14, 2010, 11:34:44 PM
Can someone please tell me where the latest greatest coil layout is located in this thread? The one that definitively shows the correct layout/ angle/ # of legs, etc. Thanks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 14, 2010, 11:49:45 PM

I have no Idea except that particles are being moved along wire as I have not seen before.

It is as perplexing as it is is  exciting


I agree, it is quite perplexing. We might be talking about new particles. Truthfully, it would not surprise me at all to find that what we have called "electricity", comprised more particles than just merely electrons.



the field is above and below the unit but not much to the side.

It has a polarity and creates dc pulse  in  wire imersed in it


That IS the boggle isn't it?

If it were purely magnetic, we would expect alternating current pulses with each commensurate field collapse. At an even 45 degrees winding in relation to a horizontal coil, we should see little or no magnetic re-action from the horizontal coil. The magnetic field is almost uncoupled from the horizontal coil.

Something most have ignored throughout our entire trek on this project is that these collectors, or "secondaries".... should not be putting out jack squat. The magnetic field generated by a vertical coil should be completely uncoupled from a horizontal coil placed within it's influence. That is the technique we use to PREVENT inductors from reacting to each other in close proximity!


The loads seems to have little or no effect on the primary accelerator circuit.


As far as the load not affecting the primary effect.... that is the only reason I am getting excited again.... Mangneto(field) and Electro (field) friction.... Consider Newton.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and conversely an object at rest tends to stay at rest. This is as true with fields and packets as it is with particles (which are just packets themselves).

Yet, what causes entropy in a field system? Why does any motional field degrade over time?

Friction...... Forces of drag which it encounters from anything placed in the field with which it interacts kinetically.

For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action. Press on an electron or other particle to push it into motion, and it pushes back, just as a 'for instance'.

For the load not to affect the driving force, friction has to be removed. That is why I am excited.

An imbalance or charge slope has been created somewhere, somehow, which allows something to press on something else greater than the inherent back-pressure.

It should not be moving, yet it is.



The primary switch on time time must be fast.

It is not frequency dependant but frequency has an effect on how may pulses are there.

If this device can be syncronised with itself it seems many things might be possible.

The primary switch time is the problem with semiconductors. Examine a tube. Current is applied, and a beam of electrons blasts through the vacuum an strikes a plate, and is absorbed extremely quickly into the system. As a switch, it can be compared to a solenoid operated gate valve.

A semiconductor however.... You apply electricity, and it builds to saturation then conducts fully. However the conduction is not instantaneous, as it actually starts conducting slight amounts of electricity long BEFORE the hypothetical valve is fully open. It can be compared to a hand operated ball valve in this instance.

I have no choice but disagree on the next statement. Please bear with me on this for a moment. The unit IS HIGHLY frequency dependent, and probably critically so. I think the EFFECT ITSELF is not critically frequency dependent, it is geometrically dependent. The EFFICIENCY is critically frequency dependent component.

The specific frequency would then be determined solely upon the circumference of the affected collector. The field spin up would not have to be dependent upon frequency, but the greatest potential slope for a given section of collector would most definitely be node dependent, and therefore frequency specific.

Many things may well be possible, which we have not even dreamed of yet with this concept.




placing an alluminium can in the centre kills the effect


Which brings us back to two things. Field type and friction. Think about these two things, and ask yourself why. Several possible answers should jump out at you almost immediately.



Tonys explanation is still the best but it is ony for the purpose of visualization.

Untill i can see an electron or whatever they are ,I remain ignorant with the possibility that a better understanding on my part will develop.


I agree, agentgates has done an admirable job.

We are all guessing as far as the nature of the lowly electron, as well as other 'supposed' particles. Don't feel alone in this. :)



Class has begun , now go and get some wire and a tube and join in with no expectation other than you will enjoy the process.
Wether this is ou or not is not important to me at this point


I intend to build, and have the equiptment....... So long as my mother-in-law didn't destroy it.... You know what sucks?

Coming back from a week long vacation, to find your parent-in-laws moved into your den, which is also your lab.....

and see a pile of sensitive expensive equipment haphazardly thrown in a pile because 'it was in the way'.......... My B&K oscilloscope for instance had a hand axe, a pile of tools, and a function generator just thrown on top of it.

I have been too depressed to even check them out yet. If they ARE broken, I can do nothing about it. Even if not, can I trust their output as still calibrated?

This sucks. Possibly four grand down the drain because of impatience.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 14, 2010, 11:56:29 PM
@bullsnbears
Just use the first one ..you will wind more Im sure .

@all

The problem is that those with the effect in front of them will have a different discussion than those with no means or inclination to do it.

I would like to suggest a thread that's read only for those with no physical coil.
Not a closed thread,  just so the different discussions wont get mixed up with who,s got steam and who has not...yet.

When somebody say test this or that , I wonder why they dont just make this thing and see for themselves.

If it was a difficult build I would understand it better and as we progress it may become more difficult but I doubt it.


The optimum will be only found by experimenting Physically.

Im am sure that my wind is not by any means optimum.

Thin wire for  the primary IS important (at this stage)

Thanks fatbird i will do your twin wrap


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 12:03:07 AM
quick question: when you say pulse at 50% duty cycle you mean to make a square wave from 0 volts to 30 volts (let's say) and 50% of the time, goes to 0 volts and repeat over again?

You are NOT using AC so that it would go from -30 volts to +30 volts, correct?

Correct. No AC involved at all. :)

@zerotensor

broli has perfectly described the problem. There are several milestones to add to the first post. Especially to the last section where it would be more than important to extend the list of safe experiments. We don't want anybody to put his lab on fire or worse.


@Stefan

I never gave you any reason to presume the bad willing. You never said that there is a deadline as there are wolfs hiding on this website in every bushes hunting for their favourite stakes: proof/prestige. You also never mentioned that there are OU-fanatics here and the only thing can cause them orgasm is light bulb on OU. If you mention this I never open this topic (especially not here) until I am 100% satisfied with my device, theories behind it, safe operation instructions, complete building tutorials, etc and is ready for mass-production.

Believe it or not the latter is the most critical and almost the hardest job as if the device is not bullet-proof when reaches the market and anybody gets only a hairline bend all the hard work was a waste of time as the BS machine mass-media will vomit the garbage that this device can "kill people". (Naturally they will not address to the multiple times higher danger of gas connected into homes and liquid explosives in cars tank with whole families sitting on it...)

Sure, when the time has arrived and I feel satisfied with it in operation, safety and look I will be more than happy to present a complete lecture with the devices, guides to build and other things to make sure nobody's going to get killed by OU-junkie overexcitement and skipping important steps.

Another thing I want to address to. When I sent you the first email with my simple question about the OU-prize/TPU together whether it would be possible my primary agenda was to find the right person. Somebody who seems a real fighter on the field and would well deserve to get this technology first hand to release. You are the founder of the OU-prize and as far as I know it was intended to protect those inventors who want to release their knowledge and technologies to the public. I said to myself this person would well deserve it to receive this device in his hand that he can carry proudly. Thing is that Stefan since I know you (a couple of days) you keep pushing your subliminal under my nose with the other OU-junkies with the "wanna see it".

I thought you are a serious and mature person who believes that the main purpose is perfection, clean air, end of wars and energy dependency. As the days passing I am starting to realize that I was wrong.

Before you or anybody else would overrun me again. I opened this topic because I know that this device works and it was the main point. I held it in my hand and doesn't make a difference in my eye whether others believe it or not. I do, because I can still think clearly that what I experienced was not OU-junkies dream. Sure it was melting the plastic, massive heatsinks, 500W-rated IGBT and needed 2 TPU stages boosted each others with caps to see light, all this from a tiny PSU. One TPU stage to 500V and the next stage to 800V to reach 190V with palm of LCs and overheating wherever you looked. All this at such a performance that is well over the limits of the used PSU.

I was not intended to go for a presentation with that pile of junk, instead in a few days time I cleaned the way of electrons to let them to go towards the load, instead of the well oversized switching ss devices and massive heatsink. Another milestone done. Decrease the consumption drammatically. Done. Next is to create more spikes. Done...

Two more things to do:
- merge the spikes safely (I already know that how to do it unsafely and keep trying to warn everybody if they reach that stage it is critical)
- voltage sense fb to keep the output constant, safe and clean without workaround like LCs and other decoration tools because it is possible, since it is a swiss watch and not a copper mining competition...

You see, in a few days time my Ambitious and Helpful Team and I have put more onto the desk on this website than anybody from the TPU Circus Team over the last 4 years - and I wont mention the understanding of theories behind the device that more and more people confirms.

Now make a comparison Stefan between my and your performance/attitude in the last couple of days.

When I saw your new masterpiece comment today I grabbed your coil and tossed it in the far corner after the ambulance took me home from the detox unit in the morning cause I was happy and eager to make it for you even by sucking the stinking ammonia of the glue for 2 days that holds it together.

I would have a respectful request to you Stefan. Sit back and read love stories or walk in the nature instead of doing things behind me out of agreement that takes away my remaining pleasure, like disabling my access to keep everybody up-to-date or just tossing your daily depression to our noses.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: CompuTutor on January 15, 2010, 12:32:50 AM
I saw a simple approach to a needed variable.

I threw that idea in in case it had validity.

I was way wrong and wish to retract.



When the idea of two rings is employed,
and you turn them from natural 90 degrees,
It starts to turn "Hourglass" in the center of the side.

This occurs even though the span of wire
from the the bottom to top ring
maintains a straight path.

The variable concept I proposed,
sadly introduces a second variable too.

And it of course causes the outer secondary
to change the distance relationship with the primary.



.....It couldn't actually be sprung though, else the angle would be 90°, as the spring came to full extension.


Thank you for catching my omission,
I forgot to state the obvious need
of a retention mechanism of some sort.

There would need to be a fixation mechanism
to overcome the "Sprung" setup...



Well, I'd rather be able to toss an occasional idea in,
and have it be proven wrong by almost anyone.

Than hesitate, and have it be a missed opportunity.

So I thank you for pointing the error out,
instead of flaming me like I have seen
in other threads I read today.  :)


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 15, 2010, 12:34:26 AM
Tony I wouldn't be too frustrated about it. Just remember the prime reason you want this technology out, some posts here are like hills you have to overcome to reach the top of the mountain. They might drag you down but they make you stronger and more confident each time. When you feel you are about to fall your companions behind you will help you continue.

Also don't forget about your health. Sleep long and plenty, eat regularly. Consider coming only once a day online at a fixed time set, after you are done for the day for example, to perhaps brief us on your progress and address people on their builds.
 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 15, 2010, 12:41:04 AM
Any body who has bothered to actually do anything with your guidance has nothing but apreciation for what you are doing.

Expectaions are the problem ..try not to have any


Thank you Tony.

Its time for your nature walk..come back soon
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 12:56:55 AM
Tony
Well said buddy!!
[Did you really have to detox??]

Stefan you need to give Tony moderator privileges in this thread ![maybe Broli too]

Lindsay
Well said also
Chet
 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 01:02:30 AM
@broli

Thanks broli as always and you're right. I'll keep these things in mind and try to focus on the project more than other things. :)

BTW, updating things...
1. Pattern generator is ready to run, I programmed it with many kind of patterns, overlapping/non-overlapping, binary patterns (for multiple harmonics). They are each variable in any parameters to each other.

2. I found some junk (10 pieces £1) fet drivers and spent a quite lot time to mess with it in the afternoon. I wont share the details as most of them would be misleading. My well-proven FET drivers are still not here so I ordered some more from multiple sellers to be sure. Until then I can drive only one coil as I found a single last-last-last life saving UCC27322P. I'll try it tomorrow as the junk ones don't make the nice spikes and die after each other.


@Lindsay

Thanks to you too. I think you're also right, time to walk in the nature. :)

BTW, you were who mentioned that you also observed this fast switching thing? It makes me confirm that what we are dealing with is to get the back EMF pulses flow in the secondary rather then coming back to the switching ssd...

Ok, ok, I go to sleep and start with a walk tomorrow... ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 15, 2010, 01:13:19 AM
I saw a simple approach to a needed variable.

I threw that idea in in case it had validity.

I was way wrong and wish to retract.



When the idea of two rings is employed,
and you turn them from natural 90 degrees,
It starts to turn "Hourglass" in the center of the side.

The variable I proposed
sadly introduces a second variable one too.


 

Thank you for catching my omission,
I forgot to state the obvious need
of a retention mechanism of some sort.

There would need to be a fixation mechanism
to overcome the "Sprung" setup...

I'm going to build this. I've got ideas for both of the problems.

I don't need angles any more obviously, but I'm a bit confused about the desired # of windings
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 15, 2010, 01:14:15 AM
Jesus, what a load of horseshit this thread is. It should be called Mylow II At least he had videos to go along with his charade, which agentgates has been promising to show and its' been 9 days. Now ambulances and detox and conveniently not sending the unit to Stefan because his ego is bruised. I'll believe it when I see it. It must be some type of mental illnes or craving for attention, perhaps mommy never loved him, but of this I am certain, you have nothing. Go ahead prove me wrong. Oh and I already anticipate all those who have drank the koolaid to attack me for my comments but I have yet to see anything but hot air
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 01:22:22 AM
@ramset

Yes, I had headache, was sick and dizzy. Late last night I went to bed but I had to call them. They took me in and put me on oxygen, got 2 bottle infusions and told them to take me home sometime in the morning. Too many drunks there.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 15, 2010, 01:26:17 AM
Jesus, what a load of horseshit this thread is. It should be called Mylow II At least he had videos to go along with his charade, which agentgates has been promising to show and its' been 9 days. Now ambulances and detox and conveniently not sending the unit to Stefan because his ego is bruised. I'll believe it when I see it. It must be some type of mental illnes or craving for attention, perhaps mommy never loved him, but of this I am certain, you have nothing. Go ahead prove me wrong. Oh and I already anticipate all those who have drank the koolaid to attack me for my comments but I have yet to see anything but hot air


To this clown , shut up.

Who ask you , did you even tried it , this is a new type of transformer , and this is exciting by it self , now what can it do , magic or not , i am still learning and having fun ..

People that are pain in the A, are not here for the right reason , they have hidden motive , they really want to make money off your back , they even tread you like an employee.


@agentgates , take your time be well first , then we will be there for you .

I am not making a replication yet , but a am learning about the coils configuration and i must say it doesn't work like the usual transformer .

I am having fun , thanks Agent.

 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 01:27:11 AM
@psm1963

Hello. I know this is the topic where you're writing but which one are you reading?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 15, 2010, 01:36:11 AM
If you're all interested in this type of 'rodin' coil then look to the gelinas patent 4,429,280 and read about curl free magnetic vector field and the properties of toroidal coils. Its been there and done that circa 1984. My challenge stands, put up or shut up, no excuses, the first model was not good enough, I need to refine this or that, please give me more attention, yada yada
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 15, 2010, 01:56:09 AM
@psm1963

Sorry i don't see your point patent 4,429,280 is not the same , look at the design they are not the same at all they use different fields.

For your third post you start strong , Take a walk and stop bonging those that are working on it .

Obviously you could be helping but if that was the intent you started on the wrong foot.

That type of help we already have enough of ...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 15, 2010, 02:12:43 AM
Hi agentgates, I wish you well.  It's sad that your health prevents you from working full-time on the project (I'm sure you would do it),   :D   but relax, take it easy, smoooooth.

By the way, I use these mosfet drivers:
http://www.micrel.com/page.do?page=/product-info/products/mic4421.shtml
and they're nice.

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 02:29:27 AM
If you're all interested in this type of 'rodin' coil then look to the gelinas patent 4,429,280 and read about curl free magnetic vector field and the properties of toroidal coils. Its been there and done that circa 1984. My challenge stands, put up or shut up, no excuses, the first model was not good enough, I need to refine this or that, please give me more attention, yada yada


You are as bad as the rest of them....

What in your mind makes you think this coil is a 'rodin' coil?

What evidence do you have of this????

Let me guess, like those you spout off about, you automatically assume it HAS to work off of zero point energy? Maybe that you ALONE understand what a 'kick' or 'squeeze the hose' or a thousand other things refer to? Are you a mystic? Or maybe a Teslaite?

All I know is that a year ago I became absolutely disgusted with the egotism, not brains, being displayed here. Ego's which bruised to hurt feelings and outrage with the slightest disagreement or perceived criticism, let alone actual logical argument. Make no mistake, I am talking about the critics as much as the believers.

The supposed 'experts'?????

In ALL of my time here I only met a VERY small handfull whom demonstrated the attitude which qualifies one as a professional. Hartiberlin, Loner, and one or two others.... total. I do not speak about those whom I have not interacted with, just those I have.

This isn't an episode of 'Guiding Light', "As The Stomach Churns', or any other soap opera. This is scientific research, in most part done by amateurs yes, but actual research none the less.

Those whom get ticked off because someone like hartiberlin injects notes of criticism and scientific method? ......

Too bad. Get over yourselves. Quit acting like children and more as serious adults.

To the skeptics whom don't believe it is even possible without even investigating the phenomenon? .....

Too bad. Get over yourselves. By all mean leave. The ONLY reason you are here anyway is to cause problems.


Don't like like what I just said? Did it hurt your 'po wittle feewings'?

Too bad, as I am sick to death of ego trips, and adults behaving like three year old children.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 02:33:50 AM
@ramset

Yes, I had headache, was sick and dizzy. Late last night I went to bed but I had to call them. They took me in and put me on oxygen, got 2 bottle infusions and told them to take me home sometime in the morning. Too many drunks there.

By all means please be careful of various glue / plastic / paint / coating fumes in enclosed spaces. They can actually kill you.

I came close with deft fumes years back without even knowing it while varnishing some cabinets. All of a sudden, I just realized that it is not normal to not be able to stand up.......

I am glad you are ok.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 15, 2010, 04:31:39 AM
I'm going to build this. I've got ideas for both of the problems.

I don't need angles any more obviously, but I'm a bit confused about the desired # of windings

Ah crap. I wish I would have listened to you. Forget the adjustable coil thing... looks cool though. Mighta worked if you were coiling fishing filament or something. :D Guess that's why I'll always be a noob. :-\
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 06:06:51 AM
Bulls
Actually Noob, lol, jump out of the box for a min, now, we know that the primary inside the tube is not near the secondary so we assume it has no affect on the secondary. So the inner primary web does not necessarily have to angle in the direction that we know here. Lets say that we set our first outer tube primary at the 45deg and it goes over the top for the first strand of inner primary, and have that inner strand go down the inside of the tube at the same angle with the outer strand. Now something will have to be thought out with what happens to get back on track for the next outer strand, but it should be close to getting your adjust ability to function.

But probably the easier way to test for better angles is to just lay 2 wires on a jig that allows to change the angle of 1 of the wires. If the effect is pronounced as told, then that effect should be able to be seen with just 2 wires with some type of equipment.  Back when they were just discovering all this stuff, they had made meters and test equipment that dont come close to what we had 50 years ago let alone now, but those guys had found things that we only dream of here. So maybe figure a way to run several parallel primaries flat and spaced, which is another parameter that needs study, and have a single secondary to test across those primaries.
If the effect with everything proper shows good on a coil, then that same config should show good on the flats.
I say this being that what we seem to be concerned with is the outer primary and secondary, spacing and crossing angles.
Im looking for a scope at the moment anda couple other useful pieces of equipment for these projects. If I had it now, I would give it a go.

And with the adjustable coil, if you research the idea of the inner primaries angling with the outer to be able to twist, the part about getting back on track will have to follow a path that does not affect the primary any differently than the prescribed coil method, as in primary wires should not touch or intersect with each other.

Gates
Good to hear your ok.  Miss Moneypenny was worried and Q has a new button for the Aston for you.  ;]

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 06:20:54 AM
Oh Yea Noobs, lol  noob is new to me so its funny.    Being that the inner and outer have different geometeries, maybe a foam can be used to squeeze out the slack of the inner primaries or a RUBBER BAND. Sounds nuts but just thought of it. Still thinking.  I like adjust ability.

Im still on the hunch of single and multiple strands on the flats to make some science, er sense of it all. =]

Once you take in such info that is posted in this thread, it is hard to believe many aspects of it when compared to what we are taught. I forget that sometimes.

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 15, 2010, 08:16:42 AM
Hi Tony,
I don´t want to have an argument with you.
But you promised something else.

You said you have a working device and would send videos and
pictures first.
We even send you the encoding parameters for the video
a few pages ago and you said, you are just converting the video.

So where is it ?

Why don´t you just post a picture with your old setup
where one can see the lightbulb shining ?

Nobody asked you to use harmful glue and the coils
could have been fixed probably differently than using this nasty
glue.
ALso I am sorry, that you had this "glue gas breath accident" and needed to go
to the hospital.

Only from the scopeshots from Marek we see now, that there is
a mystical hump wavehill, but not from your posted scopeshots Tony.

So why don´t you just upload your old pictures from your big IGBT
setup first, so that people can really see, what you had ?
Did you destroy that setup and took no pictures of it ?

I am in no way want to sound negatively here and I like your hard work,
but I just wanted to get the facts straight, that you firstly promised
to post some proof pictures or a video.

Okay, just say so , that we should still wait a few days for it and it will be okay
with me.
Maybe in the meantime Marek will have bigger lights running
with less input power.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 09:33:52 AM
Agentgates, Magluvin 0 7 here, I apologize for any negativity I have lent to this thread. My reasons were based basically on things like Stefan said. He nor I have any beef with you. Whether you agree or not it is just how it was first presented and how it progressed, from the start we assumed from early posts that things were going one way, but those assumptions based on what was posted, were soon reversed.
Dont take this as me getting down on you. I would love to see more also and still hoping. I know you have shown many pics so far, but as a whole, we cannot make anything of it as in exactly how do we produce the given effect, of which you seem to be able to get at will or in good chance. We have nothing but questions that need answers. Some say they have working setups of varying degree, but they seem to be laying down beyond saying so.  So the rest of us are like  What? Say what?  um what....? But I thought...  etc.  So of course you will be bombarded, from easy questions to difficult to stomach. 

I get that you want to be the first, as you stated, and thats what we thought you already accomplished. And thats fine but you should have laid that on the line to Stefan and told him you needed a week or 2 to show a presentable setup. But he nor anyone from the start knew that this was how it was going to go. And it is good enough reason for some to become skeptical, even though they normally are not except toward crude frauds. Maybe this was your plan all along but we all here have been a bit diffused as this progressed and most, now including me have to submit and just wait till your ready and thats all we can do. You have the stage.

And thats cool dude. Why didnt ya just say so in the first place. I wasnt at all negative from the front. But things brought up red flags and I had to question those. Much of my skepticism was based on things that were not consistent with other things. Some of it was good argument. But really now that I see how this is suppose to go down, Im cool. Dont take this as me being a dick. Im just leveling with you. ;]

So just say hey Stefen, I made some decisions as this went along and we will get it all straight very soon and sorry for the delay. But say it like you talking to the man who will hand you a fat check when your done.
You have stated your position and you say you want the world to have it and all you want is the prize. But you just have not made up your mind on that yet and thats understandable to the nth degree. This kind of thing has a powerful pull on the mind, its a tug of war between the ears.  :-\
Stefan is a cool dude and very intelligent from what I read, and you too. But if the check man asks about some pics or a vid or some particular info, why blow him off?  Reply to the check man, before anyone else. lol  Sorry Stefan for pinning you as the check man, and I mean no offense, just a point. Heck you just may get real deal moola to further your skilled new knowledge beyond OU prize, unless that doesnt appeal to you.
You proceed how you will, it is said that this is fine. And be well. And from here on out its bubble gum and scotch tape for you young man!  =]

Maluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 15, 2010, 09:49:07 AM
@ Tony,
I just want to let you know that you should hang in there, despite all the impatience people around.
I agree with Stefan that you could not meet expectations but I also know as professional researcher that the law of Murphy can be in the way.

So, please continue, but pay attention to your health first.
If you need support let me (us) know.
There are still a few loyal forum members that have patience.

If you think you made fundamental mistakes, then please mention them and be open about them.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 15, 2010, 10:31:47 AM
Guys,

Is there any replicator living near Tony? Perhaps 2 or 3 people working at the same desk could improve things faster and would calm down the (naysayers) light sceptics by having 2 witnesses around.
On the other hand this story is reminding me of the early Mylow-saga. (No evidence so far, but much emotion and theories). I understand Stefan that he does not wish to commit the same mistake as Sterling did with Mylow.

@agentgates
Keep up the good work, most of us have still faith and hope. But please also share some photos and videos at any stage you are now. Thank you.  ::)

Viktor
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 11:33:12 AM
Vic
I hope you 2 are not calling me a nay sayer. Throughout, show me my nay.
I apologized for my pursuing posts, and my above post lays it on the line. Tony is right, he doesnt work for me or anybody. Stefan seems like a fair guy, ask him what he thought was suppose to be and read what he thinks now. The same as me about some of it. But I also am saying there, hey we coool  we coool. ok
I gave explicit reasons for my behavior, and some can say I was ignorant or even negligent. Hey even though I think things got a lil twisted along the way, I know tony doesnt owe anyone anything. And Im not asking for an apology from him or anything. Im not really interested in further answers to my bold questions, because no answer is the answer for some things. Its just his way for now for whatever reasons. Coool, no prob.

Hey I feel for the guy, as I would feel for anyone that was hurt or ill. And really, he had himself checked in, he is ok now and working on the thing. Heck, take the weekend off dude.
Look things were stated and they never really came to fruition yet. Now that I know how things are, thats the way they are.  cooool.  Some others can say the same, they were told something but then that thing, just isnt, as of yet. But we were left a bit high n dry with near expectation. Some dont see it that way, BUT some do. Nothing a lil open explaining couldnt handle.

My post above was a, Hey ton, sorry bout everything and this is why I behaved as I did. Hope you and Stefan can be cool and you and I also. Hope ya feel better and crack a lil joke.

My post above was not asking why about anything, just appologizing, explaining, facts, reality and settled.

And this post is to explain things for you, not as a nay for tony and his idea.

He has clearly stated that he wants now to figure this thing out write all about it and get it down to the T. And I would feel the same way. Along with peoples help here, he can hopefully get it done easier. But if what I think he is saying about all that stuff he wants to do, is all before he really opens it up to YOU all, you might be sitting around for quite a bit. And thats cool, except I cant tell for sure if what I think, is the way I just said yet, and its puzzling, why, well can anyone here tell me why?  But coool. =]   
I think he has something, others have said the have seen something but then disappear. I dunno, pretty much, I dunno.
But I do hope he is well as I do any of you or any one.  The storyline is another thing.

No Nay

Magluvin 07
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 12:15:16 PM
And now for the business at hand.

Tonyton  The resistor on the primary, someone had stated earlier that it seems funny that a 30 ohm resistor, or which ever ohm, on the primary. As to say, well, if the coil is even 10 ohm, then the actual volts across the coil should only be about a 3rd of PS voltage, or something to that nature.
But it had me thinkin about Tesla, the dc impulse that created the radiant pulse, Tesla felt it was due to the inrush of dc into a resistance, and then as the current started to distribute in the lines, that the radiance would end. Do you think that is what is happening here? Some here have questioned the resistor in different ways, but is that the intent for the resistor to be a key ingredient for this process to work as you say?
Now if you are smoking transistors, is it at the time that the effect is working that the transistor is melting or is it because the fet cant handle the ohm load of the coil. I know you said that filling the holes and such, but what connects me to what you are explaining is, and I didnt quite realize it before, I would have to say that a coil of whatever size or ohm with a 20 to 30 ohm resistor in series, if that can load a fet to melt a lead then something really wacked is happening.  So I would look into what resistor value per a particular coil, as we have so many variations.
Can I have a poll on primary ohms here? Just for variety stats.
Your fet just may be getting a dc impulse rejection from the primary resistor. Most might think that so what, the current is just being resisted, but Tesla says differently about this situation. Now I havnt gotten into Tesla enough to see if he had experimented in higher resistance values in his impulse dc experiments, but maybe you are. ;]   Because I messed with my coil in different ways that you suggest except I didnt use a resistor just direct connect.
I used a large coil, about 300 turns of 16 ga  about .8 ohms  .9 on a good day, lol, and a reed with a magnet to make an osc. running on 5v aa. That osc can produce over 300v bemf, without a load. Chopper. So the bemf stored through a bridge to a cap. Now I use a 12v relay core, aired out, and put that as a load on the charge cap. Depending on the cap, the osc freq and pulse width, I can vary that load voltage. The freq of the osc and pulse width are adjusted buy the proximity of the osc reed to the osc coil core and how far the osc reed  activator magnet is away from the reed. I get 10v on the bemf charge cap with the 12v relay coil as a continuous load. So I add a 150 ohm res to the 12v coil to decrease that load and the bemf charge cap voltage is just over 20v. This is how I am achieving your prescribed voltages. So a 220ohm in series with the 12v coil leaves me with close to 30v on my charge cap. Now for the goods. Tesla style,  I insert another Big reed in the 12v relay coil core and use that to pulse your transformer. + from the charge cap goes to the primary of the transformer, and the second reed in the 12v coil connects the other transformer primary lead to - of the charge cap.  When the charge cap fills, the 12v coil wont fire the reed till 30v is achieved. When the reed closes, dumps 30v to the primary, the cap voltage drops causing the reed to open and the process starts all over. It works like a Tesla spark gap, but at low voltage.
I know its crude but hey, Im a cave man baby.  =] 

But that resistor needs looking into also. I havnt tried the res yet. Just thought about it really, I didnt think of its importance till a bit ago, and remembering we are not working with the norm here.

Magluvin 0 7
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: victore on January 15, 2010, 12:49:49 PM
@Magluvin

I agree i should have written 'light sceptics' instead of naysayers.
I just had to shout out loud, why i agree with Stefan.
Here is the end of my non-productive outburst :) PC heroes like me are not moving the world forward.

Viktor
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 01:18:17 PM
Its coool vic. I was a bit over anxious and its over and we just have to wait or try. simple.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Talath on January 15, 2010, 01:38:18 PM
I'm going to build this. I've got ideas for both of the problems.

I don't need angles any more obviously, but I'm a bit confused about the desired # of windings

I built a rudimentary model with two crown washers that I had.  When I rotated the rings, they did make the "hourglass" shape.  Looking at this shape gave me an interesting idea.  Towards the waist of the hourglass, the windings are extremely close together.  They're also very long circumferentially, while being very narrow axially (in respect to the axis of the bore of the tube).  It'll be interesting to test how this increasing coil density affects the secondary.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Talath on January 15, 2010, 01:46:51 PM
To this clown , shut up.

Who ask you , did you even tried it , this is a new type of transformer , and this is exciting by it self , now what can it do , magic or not , i am still learning and having fun ..

People that are pain in the A, are not here for the right reason , they have hidden motive , they really want to make money off your back , they even tread you like an employee.


@agentgates , take your time be well first , then we will be there for you .

I am not making a replication yet , but a am learning about the coils configuration and i must say it doesn't work like the usual transformer .

I am having fun , thanks Agent.

Well said Mk1.  :)

There are two types of people in the world.  Those who divide people into two types, and those who do not.   ;)

Seriously though.  Your comment shows the heart of successful experimentation.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 01:55:56 PM
Hey Tal

But thats just it, coil density is not what we want, according to Tony.  But a min and max has not been established yet. So dense it up, and loosen the goosen. See what haps.  The general way to go about it is to build as close to prescribed till you at least get the prescribed effect so that you will know it and can vary from there to see what is best. You could get lucky and melt your tv in the other room, but you may be spending an enormous amount of time before getting an effect by going oblong, while everyone else is lighting 50watt light bulbs with a couple of 9v bats. And I say a couple to raise the volts.

Mags


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Talath on January 15, 2010, 02:18:24 PM
Hey Tal

But thats just it, coil density is not what we want, according to Tony.  But a min and A has not been established yet. So dense it up, and loosen the goosen. See what haps.  The general way to go about it is to build as close to prescribed till you at least get the prescribed effect so that you will know it and can vary from there to see what is best. You could get lucky and melt your tv in the other room, but you may be spending an enormous amount of time before getting an effect by going oblong, while everyone else is lighting 50watt light bulbs with a couple of 9v bats. And I say a couple to raise the volts.

Mags

That's the good thing about the convertible model.  With it, one can rotate the rings to achieve something very close to the prescribed model, while still having the flexibility to dynamically test angle and increasing/decreasing density.  All of it is speculation anyway, until I can get a different P/S.  I'll give it a shot and see what happens.  If nothing else, I'll post some pretty pictures.   ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 02:21:40 PM
Alright Gentleman. I go back to my cave and finish what I was doing and when I'm finished I'll disclose my work in a scientific journal and I will start it with lightbulb-junkies videos.

Stefan, no need the prize. I am tired. And you can handle this statement as official. For moral reasons you don't deserve this device. I will hand it to somebody else.

I hope Marek will have more patience to beat the wolfs around his workbench, entertain the children house and focus to his work in the same time with higher production capability that I have. I am sure he can but I don't have this multitasking capability. I wish him a good luck and safety as if I leave the wolfs will put the crosshair on HIM.

@All
About the device. Whatever I told was clear and helpful. I did not make any mistake in the theories behind of it and never intended to mislead anybody or dance in spotlight. If Stefan will find the email I sent to him I clearly stated that I had NO intention earlier to open a topic with my discoveries.

I wish you all a good luck for the competition on making shiny OU light bulb. That is more important here than the way you achieve it. Don't worry about me, when I am feeling satisfied with my performance and comfortably but precisely have documented everything I will find serious funding source.

When you guys will hold the final device in your hand in a few years time, remember this post.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 15, 2010, 02:52:14 PM
Oh BooHoo. Wait Agentgates please don't go. I'm sorry I'm the only one who had any sense to see through your pathetic charade. Look I put my purple nikes on, see, just like teslaset, and pauldude and ramset and MK1 who wanna believe you so bad that they have lost any critical thinking capabilities. Please I want you to mind punk me so hard like the others that my a$$hole hurts. All you guys should be ashamed of yourselves, your all very smart know doubt but can't see a fraud for what it is. Agentgates I think you should have ended this a little more dramatically you know, like the men in black came and got you. Reminds me of the story of Plato's cave, where someone comes in to tell everyone the shadows on the wall are not the real reality and just turn around and go outside to see the real people, yet they refuse..
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 15, 2010, 02:59:14 PM
@ agentgates,

 :'(  your decision makes me sad, but I can understand that you feel insulted.
Please do take some time off, and then, maybe, consider keeping us informed through another forum where there is no Prize attachment, nor any "contracts".

The last week and a half has been a revelation for me. You were a source of inspiration.

Sincere regards,

Altair
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: sushimoto on January 15, 2010, 03:07:20 PM
I have contacted Stefan and he confirmed that a working TPU can win the prize. Please everybody avoid flame in this topic.

@Stefan, I have found the answers for the issue I mentioned in my email last night (or morning?). Please move it in the appropriate one as it seems to be locked right now. Many thanks.

---------------------------------------

I, Anthony Sprader claim that I have succesfully replicated/reverse engineered the torroidal performance multiplier transformer device (TPMT, formerly referred TPU) presented by Steven Mark.

The device itself is a combination of a low frequency switching power supply in kHz range and electron accelerator that provides more electrical power and current than the primary side receives.

The cause of the significantly higher drained electrical performance is that the primary coil has a diagonal long step winding technique that causes rotating magnetic field flow along side the secondary coil. The output electrical current is a sum of two different type of current. The first is created via conventional electromagnetic induction by the primary coil and has normal hole and electron flow components while the gained electrical current is a spontanous electron flow without hole counterparts.

Due to the unusual nature of the gained electricity the majority appears on the closest PN semiconductor rather than the load where electrons can find they hole counter parts trapped between the PN layers. The closest PN semiconductor is usually the switching transistor component on the primer side. The higher primary input causes exponentially higher hole and electron imbalance in the primary driving coil thus the heat loss is also increasing exponentially between the switching PN layers.

Therefore there are several possible ways to decrease the amount of impacted electrons on the PN switching device.

1. Decreasing the input performance and duty cycle to decrease the exponential hole and electron imbalance and increase the efficiency by using TPMT devices in multiple stages to boost the output. (presently it needs 2 stages min. to power a 250V 50W light bulb on 190V)
2. Using multiple primary coils and switching them after each other to rest the PN layers on each switching channel. (e.g. Johnson-counter and several oversized IGBTs or FETs)
3. Avoiding the use of PN switching devices.

In case of winning the majority of the prize would support further developments of the technology to comply requirements of mass production.

(Please read the email below with the description I sent to Stefan this morning and disregard the typos as it was very late. Photos and vids are coming.)

-------------------------------------

> how I could send you back the test device, when the test time is over or would you like to donate the device to me ?

Yes of course I have already made a coil for you yesterday that naturally you can keep. The one I mentioned puts out 190V to the 50W for ~30 seconds before you can smell the plastic on it, so it's a bit below 50W and since I don't have light bulb for 1W handy at the moment to verify the requirements I decided to build a larger device for you that comfortably supply usable energy. Before I send it I will also video it and upload it to my youtube channel.



> a 9 Volts Battery would be okay, if it runs for days and puts out already 50 Watts.

I wouldn't push the prize with the 9V battery, I just enquired whether I have a chance with a device that not I invented firstly (replica/reverse-engineering) to win th OUP as I need to put more money in research to refine the device, make it smaller, more efficient, safe for mass production, make formulas for sizing and keep the thing simple. I have already spent a few thousand pounds on it over the years. So I just wanted make sure, also I'd like to understand what's happening inside the working models before I apply. I believe in complete work before opening the champaign. :)

Today when I built your device I found that the energy moves in the device is far above 1kW, the only obstacle that it comes out where you would never expect it: it doesn't heat the coil at all, they remain cold but cooks the switching FET on the primary coil nearly instantly. My device works, yours not yet... :D We always learn.

I was driving it with a power supply (0-3A / 0-30V / max. 90W) and switching it with a single IGBT (rated 1200V/74A in pulse and 500W in fully open state) between 5 and 500kHz/50% square waves (I can't remember the freq exactly but it is only important when you put the load on it). When I put the PSU to the max. I saw a big flash after ~3 sec. and the soldering on the mentioned well oversized IGBT's middle pin has molten and released the wire, which was ~1.5mm in diameter and sticked to the next pin to it. That should be an enormous amount of power couldn't appear in the secondary coil and naturally impossible to do it with a 90W input.



> Does it only depend on special coil configurations or do you use also magnets in it ?

Yes and no. Magnet is not necessary but the coil winding is very important and as I noticed so far this is where one of the key secret is. I use a "triangular" winding technique for the primary that seems to be vital. I worked out this technique while I was playing with the Rodin coil (that could be good for primary with one coil and large spaces) and I was thinking how the current flows in it. It flows in a cicular pattern and after it takes the ~360 degrees it comes in the next to it and doing it over and over again until leaves the coil. I remembered when I started the TPU research I had coil that worked but I have successfully caused a thousand pound damage in my lab during the research and I couldn't work for nearly a year on it. 8-10 months later when I've bought the new instruments I didn't remember clearly which coil worked how I connected them, but a couple of days ago a guy posted a schematic and I had a dejavu. Something told me that I have seen this technique before which is almost identical to what I was doing. I digged out that coil from the crate, connected it and the signal was what I expected. Then I took a look at SM's naked coil with the magnet but this time on the JD released vids and it clicked in when I saw the winding on the rim. "That is the one! I know now why I did it this way back then!" The winding pattern is the same as you would wind a Rodin coil but not necessary to stick to the 150-degree-step (mine is wound with 60 and actually this is another thing that I want to verify which is the best). So you go around with long steps, leave well enough space and when you're done with one circle you simply continue and lay the next wire in the space of the previous circle. You repeat this technique as long as you want, but (I think) you need to do min 2 circles (later need to be verified again).

I give you details on the first working device (which performs far better than the second one :D ):

to replicate it you'd need these things:
- Paper mailing tube, 80mm in diameter, 70mm long and 2mm thick wall
- 0.38mm for primary (I wouldn't use it again, need a thicker min 0.74mm)
- 0.74mm for secondary (same issue, not thick enough, min 1mm)

Both of the wires are regular enamelled solid copper wires used for transformers. (After seeing what I have already seen here I wouldn't be surprised if this device doesn't work with soft wires. I think this is why the current has to struggle to flow in the secondary. Possibility for Litze wire also should be verified later.)

Oversized switching MOSFET/IGBT and large heatsink (for now as this is where the power loves to be built up and not on the load hooked up to the secondary).

This is not important at all, but I use a 9A mosfet driver. That was just handy in the breadboard and I need something to increase the signal as the max output 3.5V of my waveform generator.

Use a knife and cut off the tube and cut in 3 gaps about 1mm deep and 120 degrees to each other on the top and bottom edges, but make 60 degrees offset between the top and bottom sides. So when you look at it they will be in a zig-zag pattern to each other and not above and below. Then you place the primary wire in the 1st gap and keep windind it perpendiculary to the tube. When you're done with the first circle all gaps should be filled with wire. Then you are keep going in this form, but you lay the next circle about 3-5mm to the previous wire.

When you are done with the primary, wind the secondary on it as you would normally do it with e.g. a Tesla coil's secondary. (I did it very tight but later we can try it out with gaps.) I used a tape between the P/S coils to fix the primary. When you look inside your coil it should show a twisted form similar to the Rodin coil and the primary wires are hovering over the tube. An important thing: probably you remember the little guy and the TV that exploded in the 60s that SM mentioned. The coils on the CRT tube are wound in this pattern, this is what I used as a starting point when I made my first device many years ago. (AFAIK this winding pattern is still in use and I think that a part of that energy used in CRTs are not all from the mains.)

Ok, when your coil is ready, hook up the PG, PSU, the FET to the primary coil and scope to the input and output. Do it without load on the secondary! Set the PG to 50% square wave and a low frequency as a start, like 100Hz and slowly increase the power on the PSU. You will see a beautiful DC hump growing. This is only possible if you have a slight rotating magnetic field as the winding with the big spaces have a very low inductance. Basically this device is a transformer with a Rodin coil wound on a tube and a Tesla coil on it. It is a simple as this. :)

Now, put a load on it and find a comfortable duty cycle that your load likes. Increase the frequency and the input. If the load is too big you can fry eggs on the heatsink as all the power will appear on the FET. I think this is because of the nature of that current is different. That is not a normal current flow where you have both holes and electron flow. I think the balance of electrons and holes are not equal. One of them is trying to build up on the PN transision of the FET/IGBT. I don't know yet, it also should be investigated.



> Does it use any bifilar coils, where the inductance cancels each other from the 2 parellel wires and uses high frequency for standing wave effects?

No, it doesn't need anything like that.



> On what frequencies does it work ?

Not critical, depending on your load. It is nothing but a performance multiplier transformer where the output is the sum of the input and the extracted energy. You can use it in a wide range from 100Hz to 1MHz if you have a well shielded room as there is radio broadcasting in the higher frequency ranges and at that power you can disturb it.



> Do you also need 3 driver frequencies ?

No but it would be easier to distribute the heat and rest the FETs. If you shoot multiple channels in series as I said in my first post on your site (a year ago or 2) you can decrease the built up electrons or holes (whichever is the case) so they will not pull the current toward the fet and will go in the other way, the load on the secondary.



> I am pretty excited to hear, that somebody really has achieved a selfrunning TPU.

Thanks. :) I am also feeling better as I pay 100 pounds electricity every month to heat my 42 sqm appartment. Now at least I can get warm at the over unity heatsinks powered by a 1.5kW IGBT and hooked up to the screwed up TPU I made for you. :D



> a 9 Volts Battery would be okay, if it runs for days and puts out already 50 Watts. That would be hardly to achieve only with a small 9 Volts battery....

Maybe I have forgotten to tell the 9V think was done by 2 or 3 TPUs in series and the bat was quite hot. Actually I used them as step-up transformes after each other, but rather they would cause drop in the current they increase both the power and current. I think those are not inductors on SM's TPUs, those ar mini TPUs driving the big ones. I looked at his devices again and I understood everything. (when we are over the hard work perhaps I will make some drawings on how his devices work)

The LTPU probably has 2 mini TPUs and the coils are in series on each small TPU, but they are connected not in the usual way and rather having 2 coils on each mini TPU, those are 4 or 8 and the crossing is below the device. The foil cap is perhaps in parallel with the output to smooth the HV spikes. I guess the LTPU has 2 driving channels for heat and peak distribution and for resting the transistors. I noticed that this fenomenon happens when you put the freq two high, also the IGBTs have slower falling edges thus they can trap holes or electrons in an unexpected way.

I used FETs before but if I wanted to make usable power. They simply got a whole over the plastic if I gave them the juice. It doesn't mean that you can't do it with FETs, but with these coils I used you need well oversized swithing circuits. I saw a video with John Bedini and saw one of his kW device and there were several (8?) switching FETs/IGBTs in TO-247 package in parallel configuration to power a single driving coil. The heatsink was the case itself. That relatively small coil didn't look that tough and would not require that. I think he has the same problem with the gained energy, it wants to go toward the closest P/N semiconductor. (before I forget: schottky diodes could be another solution as they work differently, no PN semiconductors)


> You can also start posting the blueprints or just a circuit diagramm first and then add stuff like videos or pictures later.

To be honest some characters are a bit arrogant and I don't feel to comfortable standing on the stage. That is why I contacted you.
Diagrams are trivial, simple switching circuit, the critical is the winding technique.

I attached a few pictures on how the first zig-zag coil was built. The paper tube coil is the working coil, the big one (yellow inside) is the one I built for you, on the picture it is unfinished. That doesnt work.

Possible reasons:
- soft wire for secondary, the profile is not circular as the collected electrons want to move and spin in a helix form
- 2-sided crossing primary coils can cause disturbance in electron flow
- thick insulation on the secondary, therefore bigger the gap between conducting media. Plumbing pipe could be ideal for secondary with thin plastic tape on it for larger devices.
- too many divisions on each circle, should be decreased and verified, 120
-------------------------------------

UPDATE

IMPORTANT SAFETY REQUIREMENTS

1. Never feed back the output in the input directly, only by filtering it and take it back before the switching devices as it will extract literally infinite energy and create an extremely high electromagnetic field in the environment. Probably that was the cause of the accident with the TV that SM mentioned killed a 5-year-old child when the electron accelerators coil got an input from another coil that it triggered as secondary (very likely accidentally due to overheating).

2. Separate the primary and secondary units galvanically as the output current is hazardous, also keep that in mind if you connect instruments, like scope on both the primary and secondary coils you will make a common ground through the scope between the two separate circuit.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 03:27:17 PM
Tony
Thanks
PS It doesn't have to be perfect to change our world.
Who knows  It may have already.
Make the rest of your life
the best of your life

Chet
PS
Be careful with that alone in the cave stuff
stay with the people buddy
Its much better for the mind!

PPS I never thought I could experiment with this[to dangerous]
Turns out you showed how to do this safely [hair thin wire]
your coils are quick and easy
they won't make me nuts winding [big size ,few turns]
I'm with Mags [Hop Grasser] gonna get some things in the house to experiment
Thanks again Tony[for lighting the fire under my ass]
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 15, 2010, 03:32:10 PM
Oh BooHoo. Wait Agentgates please don't go. I'm sorry I'm the only one who had any sense to see through your pathetic charade. Look I put my purple nikes on, see, just like teslaset, and pauldude and ramset and MK1 who wanna believe you so bad that they have lost any critical thinking capabilities. Please I want you to mind punk me so hard like the others that my a$$hole hurts. All you guys should be ashamed of yourselves, your all very smart know doubt but can't see a fraud for what it is. Agentgates I think you should have ended this a little more dramatically you know, like the men in black came and got you. Reminds me of the story of Plato's cave, where someone comes in to tell everyone the shadows on the wall are not the real reality and just turn around and go outside to see the real people, yet they refuse..

If you don't agree with what's being discussed, then fight with decency and proper arguments.
Maybe you are still convinced the earth is flat.
People like you should be banned instantly.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: agentgates on January 15, 2010, 03:33:35 PM
@psm1963

I have forgotten to add to wish you a great luck on this website for your spiritual healing why you were registered. Please keep up the good work, you don't need to struggle to find friends here who can join and chase the folks. ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 15, 2010, 03:40:46 PM
@agentgates
Spoken like a true false prophet. You ,my friend, should seek spiritual guidance for misleading people and wasting countless hours of their time which would have been better spent with their families instead of following you down your rabbit hole of deception
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 03:43:18 PM
Tony
Time for a walk!!

Keep an eye on us  ;D

The Spiritual side is a Big one buddy.
Keep "that" healthy first
Chet

Hey 963,  yah got good numbers, there just backwards
do a 180 !!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: psm1963 on January 15, 2010, 03:47:42 PM
teaslalset

Decency and proper arguments. I just told him to put up or shut up. He made a claim ,show the video, and I'll shut up. I think that is decent and proper and I'm sure others would agree. What, I should be banned for not believing his load of crap and voicing my opinion, who are you, Stalin
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 04:21:51 PM
Ok hmm. All yooz can blame me. Sorry.  Stefan  the coil you have, t claimed that it WAS a 1kw coil.  Then claims it wasnt finihed and doesnt work. Read sushi's post.  Does it look like some primaries are missing because they were removed? Old glue, impressions in the yellow insulation.  Hmmm  he says 1kw then doesnt work. Now look at the last pic of the coil he has been working  on. There are no primaries yet and the secondaries are glued to the tube. So why are we told to wrap our secondary on the outside, but 2 times now, at the beginning, now the end, his just happen to be on the inside?  Also if you can post some side pics of that yellow coil that would be cool.  Ask yourselves, is T for real? One way or the other I still keep finding something wrong with his story. Its a shame. If the garbage wasn all over the place, nobody would have to ask how it got there.    mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 15, 2010, 04:23:29 PM
And thus the saga ends, as I well knew it would, but on page 44 not page 100 as I thought.  Those of us who have been studying SM's clues for YEARS, understand that as important as how the coil is wound, that there are MANY things happening in the collectors that cause a spin in TWO opposite directions like a gyroscope. 

Now, could there be an interesting affect here?  Sure, but is it SM's TPU?  NO!  LOL  If it were that would have made SM the biggest liar of all, and I don't believe that, though some do.

Ohms law is a beautiful thing.  Whenever someone refuses to give amp readings it is a general sign that there is a problem.  This was not handled professionly at all, and I am surprised by a couple of you.  Not for wanting to try something new, but for thinking that this was the SM TPU working.  Go back to the beginning and reread SM. 

The key is in the three frequencies that the man himself gave in private.  I showed the spreadsheet of what they do.  I showed from his own words about using standing waves all to drop replicas of the fundamental and it's second and third harmonics into the basket of each resonant tuned tank circuit collector, rectify this to pulsed DC and send it back as a bias and current is added to it.  Or forget all of that and just set up a standing wave in a 15" collector with the given frequencies for evidence. 

SM even told us how to wrap it and that was posted, by mannix himself and where are we? 

Nothing lost.  You can not lose something that you never had in the first place... ;)

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 15, 2010, 04:35:14 PM
That was cool Bruce. But we still have a 'hump' on a camels back to break.  The hump is the only plus I have seen and t states that in the sushi. Lol first post and then we have one replicator with humps.  Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 15, 2010, 04:46:43 PM
That was cool Bruce. But we still have a 'hump' on a camels back to break.  The hump is the only plus I have seen and t states that in the sushi. Lol first post and then we have one replicator with humps.  Mags

There may be an actual interesting effect (not OU) to see, at least Lindsay thinks so.  And it is always good to learn. 

My whole issue is the claim that this was somehow the SM tpu figured out.  And then the whole way in which things were handled.  De Ja Vu.  There have been many of these such incidents.  Melted IGBT's are not signs of OU.  MANY of the guys have melted them and more.  You would be amazed how the power supply can fool you. 

Besides, a SM TPU will never work off of a power supply, too much noise, only test with a battery. 

Funny, I know a man who blew a hole in his garage roof when his coil disintigrated.  LOL  Now that was OU.  But he never wanted to see that coil again...It shook him up, and understandably so.  Bob Boyce messed with a TPS or toroidal power system on an air core and was struck in his hand by lightening, with a lightening pole a few feet away at the corner of the house...Bob did not mess with that coil for a bit.  A friend of mine recently tested Bob's coil with his own controller and it was OU.  So, keep on testing...

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on January 15, 2010, 04:51:19 PM
@psm1963

Don't push your luck buddy. You are right at the edge and with so few posts under your belt, you can get banned right away. I suggest you simmer down.

@AG

I don't think I posted anything bad or derogatory. Just realistic. How else would you feel if you were in our shoes. @sushimoto did the right thing to put the post number 1 above. Read in your own words what you have claimed. But words and deeds to not coincide and you cannot expect guys here to sit around like ostriches with their head in the sand.

If you come here and say you have the answer, then show it. But if you come here to ask for help, then ask for it. But if you come here to expect guys to follow along in a zombie state, then we definitely have a problem.

It is all a question of perspective. Your perspective is to say one thing but show another and our perspective is to be straight with other members from the start. Saying you have the answers is not the same thing as then pushing guys here to do all this R&D with changes as you go. This does not spell someone who has the answer, but someone who is working with others to find the answer. There is a major difference here and this is what you do not want to acknowledge. You need help? Then be honest enough to ask for it and not go by so many side ways. Based on that openness I and some others would have also participated more actively in building and testing as long as we are all on the same footing.

We have worked with many people here that have openly come to show something new or out of the ordinary and guys here have worked well with those that ask for help. It is that simple. Just be  honest enough to state the real situation as it is and ask for the help you need. Otherwise, it would be best if you indeed go to your closed laboratory and not be bothered by the real world.

Kindest regards,

wattsup
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 15, 2010, 05:34:06 PM
And thus the saga ends

@Bruce
Hardly! I think this is just the begining. I had never been happy with format of the TPU that has
been spouted for so many years. It was something that someone came up with. I believe Tonys
Idea is the next stage of the evolution.

I would love to try your frequencies with a Tony style coil. Self sustaining rotating magnetic field might just be with our grasp.

In the mean time watch this video. It will blow your socks off:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1523833666089029157&ei=QphQS7DFNMaA-AaJifChBQ&q=the+secret+of+universe&emb=1
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Frederic2k1 on January 15, 2010, 05:52:32 PM
There may be an actual interesting effect (not OU) to see, at least Lindsay thinks so.  And it is always good to learn. 

My whole issue is the claim that this was somehow the SM tpu figured out.  And then the whole way in which things were handled.  De Ja Vu.  There have been many of these such incidents.  Melted IGBT's are not signs of OU.  MANY of the guys have melted them and more.  You would be amazed how the power supply can fool you. 

Besides, a SM TPU will never work off of a power supply, too much noise, only test with a battery. 

Funny, I know a man who blew a hole in his garage roof when his coil disintigrated.  LOL  Now that was OU.  But he never wanted to see that coil again...It shook him up, and understandably so.  Bob Boyce messed with a TPS or toroidal power system on an air core and was struck in his hand by lightening, with a lightening pole a few feet away at the corner of the house...Bob did not mess with that coil for a bit.  A friend of mine recently tested Bob's coil with his own controller and it was OU.  So, keep on testing...

Cheers,

Bruce

Hehehe, I'm thinking a long time about Bob Boyce TPU... is his TPU perhaps the real operation-mode to achieve OU ?

 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: starcruiser on January 15, 2010, 05:54:01 PM
@psm1963,

finally found a thread you could discredit? go back to sleep.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 15, 2010, 06:27:02 PM
@psm1963,

finally found a thread you could discredit? go back to sleep.

@starcruiser
I don't think psm1963 is here any longer. he was just passing through and probabely he is back on his
 sites.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 06:33:54 PM
I TOLD YOU SOOOO ,i told you so !!!  ::) ::) ::)

This thing isn't going anywhere....and it is going to stay that way!


Ps don't mind Marco he is the boss of the tpu circus .


Yeah!! And it seems you are one of the clowns now ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 06:53:53 PM
Nah
It ain't over Marco

The Fat lady still has to sing!!
BTW
There are no clowns in research

And YOU NEVER KNOW :o :o :o

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gauschor on January 15, 2010, 06:57:25 PM
Hmm again an invention mankind will never see. I really had hope for this device. Now we are back on 0 again, with no device producing OU (despite hundreds or thousands of topics in this forum, obviously none works). I'm guessing there is a reason why Solar Energy is the only thing being researched on, despite the bad efficiency. Because it works.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: altair on January 15, 2010, 07:08:43 PM
DON'T feed the troll !
It's obviously just a teenager in need of attention.
He will eventually grow up.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 07:09:53 PM
Nah
It ain't over Marco

The Fat lady still has to sing!!
BTW
There are no clowns in research

And YOU NEVER KNOW :o :o :o

Chet

The fat lady is already singing on my bench mister  :) and it ain't a TPU !!!


 with no device producing OU


But there are... you just need to pick the right one...  :) and it ain't a TPU!!!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 07:16:21 PM
Marco


The fat lady is already singing on my bench mister  :) and it ain't a TPU !!!

Thats very funny ;D

I'm sure you have a "poynt"

Chet

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 15, 2010, 07:22:22 PM
Hmm again an invention mankind will never see. I really had hope for this device. Now we are back on 0 again, with no device producing OU (despite hundreds or thousands of topics in this forum, obviously none works). I'm guessing there is a reason why Solar Energy is the only thing being researched on, despite the bad efficiency. Because it works.

SORRY, but due to all of the AEROSOL CHEMTRAILS going on, Solar Panels don't work that well anymore.  Have you noticed that the sun is rarely out nowadays?  Plus, the Moon & Stars are rarely visible at night anymore.

Click on this Link to learn more:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=chemtrails&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

http://www.rense.com



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 07:23:04 PM

I'm sure you have a "poynt"

Chet

Hehehe Exactly...  :) and its OUR poynt  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: CompuTutor on January 15, 2010, 09:25:26 PM
I built a rudimentary coil with two crown washers that I had.
When I rotated the rings, they did make the "hourglass" shape.

Two rings slotted to maintain the winding spacing
could be slid over a slightly smaller tube instead.

It wouldn't be perfect, the outer coil lacing
would come close to the inner lacing a bit.

But the only point to this was to try different angles.

If something quite obvious arouse during tests,
than an actual coil form could then be fashioned.

the outer secondary would still be close enough too.

I hope I waited long enough that
the pissing contest is over...

It aint a SM TPU, thats established,
but this is still something to look into.

Isn' it?

I look forward to exchanging useful ideas,
and watching some progress now.  :)

Even a notched tube like FatBird's PVC coupler
could be used after you find the rough angle.

Just count the number of offset edge slots
that are closest to the angle desired.

You wouldn't need a new form every time
just rewind it (Again) at the newer angle.

********************************

On an off-topic note, I need to ask something.

The last few days when I go to post
one or two words are replace by a capital "A".

I didn't think anything of it until I saw it in other posts.

Like my quote of Talath above as example.

I had to replace an "A" with the word "coil"
because he has one in his post.

It only seems to happen if I use the "Quote" button.

Whats up with that ?

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 15, 2010, 09:28:05 PM
Alright Gentleman. I go back to my cave and finish what I was doing and when I'm finished I'll disclose my work in a scientific journal and I will start it with lightbulb-junkies videos.

Stefan, no need the prize. I am tired. And you can handle this statement as official. For moral reasons you don't deserve this device. I will hand it to somebody else.

I hope Marek will have more patience to beat the wolfs around his workbench, entertain the children house and focus to his work in the same time with higher production capability that I have. I am sure he can but I don't have this multitasking capability. I wish him a good luck and safety as if I leave the wolfs will put the crosshair on HIM.

@All
About the device. Whatever I told was clear and helpful. I did not make any mistake in the theories behind of it and never intended to mislead anybody or dance in spotlight. If Stefan will find the email I sent to him I clearly stated that I had NO intention earlier to open a topic with my discoveries.

I wish you all a good luck for the competition on making shiny OU light bulb. That is more important here than the way you achieve it. Don't worry about me, when I am feeling satisfied with my performance and comfortably but precisely have documented everything I will find serious funding source.

When you guys will hold the final device in your hand in a few years time, remember this post.

Okay, Tony,
it is your decision.

Maybe I mixed something up and I had the impression you already had pictures and videos
of your earlier device, that you just wanted to post as a start and then work from there on.

I think it is said, that you did not clear this up straight from the beginning,
as you also said a few days ago, you are just editing the video and will have it up
next to fixing the codec problems.

So I don´t know what to think about the whole affair.

Did you just see an interesting Hump hill wave effect as Marek confirmed
and just wanted to tease us to help you and research this effect and you did not have
such a big power amplification yet and now your retract from it all ?

Hmm...
Well time will probably tell.
I will now rename this thread to a more fitting name.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU Application for Overunity Prize
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
Hehehe Exactly...  :) and its OUR poynt  ;)

I can't believe you clowns in the secret... or should I say "real" tpu thread were punked by DARPA and can't even figure that out....

Look at phraseology, word usage, grammar, sentence structure, etc.... The dude in your thread who was claiming to be SM was anyone BUT the original SM....

How would I know???? A friend downloaded the entire thread for me a long time ago. No I am not going to tell you who. DARPA was using you guys for free carrot research. Have you ever wondered why you have 'effects' out the keaster, yet they are usually unstable (putting it mildly) to beat the band?

DARPA was trying to kill you as well as use you. It is much safer for them that way.

"Give dangerous gravitic, hyper-magnetic, or other unstable designs to the yokels, maybe they will actually figure out how to stabilize it for us....." Maybe you didn't know that certain members of this site are active and retired gov.... ?  Probably not. You never struck me as that intelligent.

That fat lady laughed at you. The poynt was on the end of a dagger.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 09:57:49 PM
Well if that is true Paul, then DARPA didn't get much of a working tpu either!!  :D :D :D :D

Oh and by the way those long TPU years were only the warming up  :)
We are just getting started bro  ;)


You never struck me as that intelligent.

Paul Andrulis

Likewise


That fat lady laughed at you.


Yeah! and i hope she keeps laughing at me  :)
I kinda like laughing fat girlzzz  ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gauschor on January 15, 2010, 10:05:14 PM
But there are... you just need to pick the right one...  :) and it ain't a TPU!!!

Please give me a hint, because from what I've seen most don't do OU, or can't be replicated due to various reasons.

@FatBird: chemtrails may darken the light a bit, still there is power from sun, as long as no one switches her off  :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 10:09:02 PM
Well if that is true Paul, then DARPA didn't get much of a working tpu either!!  :D :D :D :D

Oh and by the way those long TPU years were only the warming up  :)
We are just getting started bro  ;)

Likewise

Yeah! and i hope she keeps laughing at me  :)
I kinda like laughing fat girlzzz  ;D

They got exactly what they wanted...

DARPA is not a 'green energy' lab, and never has been. Why do you think they put you guys on the 'vortex' path? That path would never yield usable energy, only directional and direct-able areas of magnetic and other force.

They wanted weapons, not generators.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 10:26:47 PM
yeah yeah okay...you obviously didn't get the poynt..as usual
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
Please give me a hint, because from what I've seen most don't do OU, or can't be replicated due to various reasons.

@FatBird: chemtrails may darken the light a bit, still there is power from sun, as long as no one switches her off  :)

The TPU is real, if you can wase through the billion tons of purposeful dis-information which has been injected through the years. Just try for an actual rotating field, and not all the high voltage high power banging BS, that is unless you want to be a casualty.... That is up to you.

There is a device called a 'water hammer' which is demonstrated and measured as OU, dont know if the unit is being replicated here though. (Uses mechanical resonance to heat water to steam.)

There is a Hydrogen generator which works quite well, and the original was claimed as OU, and from my perusal, it used destructive resonance to separate hydro. The inventors name was either "steven" or "Stan" or something, been a long time since I examined the idea personally, but I keep thinking there is a replication effort here.

To many real inventors try to get "funding", and in so doing get tied up legally, all info unsharable with anyone, and the invention shelved. That is what happens when one gets greedy.

I will say there is more disinformation than usable information, you have to wade through the BS. If someone is asking for money.... run. If they are excited, sharing their results openly, then investigate further, but be prepaired to be disappointed.

OU has always been possible, the application of the conservation of energy law is what has been misapplied. OU is merely a greater efficiency than is accountable for in a DEFINITION LIMITED system. Basically, it uses forces other than are accounted for or are expected. Most energy in any such limited definition system is wasted.

For instance, you can put a battery in a circuit, and claim that battery is your power source...... What other energy forms and types may also effect that circuit? If you discount them as power sources, them you will have OU when one pokes up it's head.

Electrical Engineers have to fight this problem all the time in the form of anomalous circuit activity, and application of 'rules of thumb'.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 10:42:09 PM
yeah yeah okay...you obviously didn't get the poynt..as usual

Me?

You guys still think it is poynting energy or flow. (Talk about the duh factor.)

You guys have 'toys'... Cool. Play with them. Thousands of guys have 'toys'.

You are not 'special', just merely egotistical.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 10:43:49 PM
And then there is this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 10:57:36 PM
Me?

You guys still think it is poynting energy or flow. (Talk about the duh factor.)


I have never thought it was poynting energy or flow.
I wonder what makes you think that...(Talk about the duh factor.)


You guys have 'toys'... Cool. Play with them. Thousands of guys have 'toys'.

You are not 'special', just merely egotistical.

Paul Andrulis

So what makes you think that i think i am special?
What makes you think that i think it's poynting energy or flow?
And what makes you think that i am egotistical?

You have no idea.....

PS i love the pistol shrimp vid  :)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 15, 2010, 11:00:43 PM
@marco

You had your chance , give us a break...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 11:04:20 PM
To answer your private e-mail to me quite openly before all ramset, yes, I did know about overunityresearch.com started by poynt....

Your super duper, ultra secret, cloak and dagger, only those we feel qualified need apply, secret OU club. (Catch my sarcasm? If not clear enough I can restate.)

For a long time now I have been aware.

Wasn't impressed then, still am not impressed, and I believe in true open source, not hiding info from those you feel 'not worthy'.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 11:12:50 PM
Paul
That's not a secret handshake club
Marco practically posted a full page add a while back

Actually pretty funny I'm looking for it now!!
Chet

Paul I believe in Open source also [the only way]

I saw Marco's post went to the site [which ANYONE can visit]
And saw some fellows sharing and chillin [good stuff]

Whats your beef brother??
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 11:19:59 PM
Paul
That's not a secret handshake club
Marco practically posted a full page add a while back

Chet

It is the sealed private threads inside the public forums of which I speak Chet. If you do not know about this yet then they feel YOU are not 'worthy'.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 11:24:29 PM
Ramset, sorry, I apologize.

I should have looked at the left hand side of your post below your name. The way you posted I assumed you were a club member, and you are not.

Again, sorry.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 11:32:40 PM
Wow okay so in any case, i am not hiding anything from any body.
Some people keep pressing that we should close the group but i simply cannot see why we should not share OUR findings....

My work is there for anybody to see and the ONLY thing i want to put out is that THERE ARE MORE DEVICES THEN THE TPU!
And i hope people will start to look for them.

I have been on the TPU boat for a long time and i have spend more money on it then the actual OU prize pot contains.

It's an advice from me to you how can that be egotistical?
You defenatly got this picture wrong Paul.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Super God on January 15, 2010, 11:35:04 PM
Well there goes the awesome thread.  Way to go everybody.  :/
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 15, 2010, 11:39:08 PM
@ Tony

Thanks for the information you have given us.

............this my coil the primary wire is close to 0.05 mm 15 ohm.

Take care of you good luck
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 15, 2010, 11:40:09 PM
Super God , You are so right !

As soon as you put the TPU name on a tread , it is too ,late .

This site really stink when we talk tpu , and no work can be done.

TPU = circus
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 15, 2010, 11:45:42 PM
Wow okay so in any case, i am not hiding anything from any body.
Some people keep pressing that we should close the group but i simply cannot see why we should not share OUR findings....

My work is there for anybody to see and the ONLY thing i want to put out is that THERE ARE MORE DEVICES THEN THE TPU!
And i hope people will start to look for them.

I have been on the TPU boat for a long time and i have spend more money on it then the actual OU prize pot contains.

It's an advice from me to you how can that be egotistical?
You defenatly got this picture wrong Paul.


Marco, I know several great devices worth investigating as well......

The problem is that the TPU isn't a joke. I am saddened that you guys swallowed the bait, hook, line, and sinker. I will be completely honest with you here.

Why is it, that when you, EM, etc.. were so close to reaching actual results, some one or two people in specific would send you guys consistently on wild goose chases? (Think hard, their names are right on the tip of your tounge.)

The best way to purposely place disinformation is to place specific members into a group, have them share just enough information to give them both validity and credibility and gain the groups trust, then have them purposefully lead said group AWAY from their desired goals by interjecting plausible but false information at key junctures.

If you have been used, then that sucks. EM for instance was SO STINKING CLOSE I could taste it.... But he swallowed the kool-aid as well, by the looks of it.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2010, 11:45:47 PM
Well
I guess those things had to be said.
Geese you fellows have the same Values, are trying to do the same things [open source make the world a better place]

And you can't hear[understand] each other.

Maybe Tony is right.
time for a walk to clear the head.

Chet

With all the great guys here with the same goal
somebody grab the tiller we're getting off course
 

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 15, 2010, 11:56:04 PM

Marco, I know several great devices worth investigating as well......

The problem is that the TPU isn't a joke. I am saddened that you guys swallowed the bait, hook, line, and sinker. I will be completely honest with you here.

Why is it, that when you, EM, etc.. were so close to reaching actual results, some one or two people in specific would send you guys consistently on wild goose chases? (Think hard, their names are right on the tip of your tounge.)

The best way to purposely place disinformation is to place specific members into a group, have them share just enough information to give them both validity and credibility and gain the groups trust, then have them purposefully lead said group AWAY from their desired goals by interjecting plausible but false information at key junctures.

If you have been used, then that sucks. EM for instance was SO STINKING CLOSE I could taste it.... But he swallowed the kool-aid as well, by the looks of it.

Paul Andrulis

The TPU is the joke of the century Paul.
The problem is that most people are still living in the dream.....
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 16, 2010, 12:26:49 AM
The TPU is the joke of the century Paul.
The problem is that most people are still living in the dream.....

Not unlike star trek , lie or not we can make it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2010, 12:30:14 AM
Marco
is it just the TPU you think is a waste?
Or Don Smith
Leedskalin
Dollard
Kapanadze
etc etc..
Chet
PS
I know you like TUBES. Is that what all the devices had in common on your overunityresearch.com brochure ?[the green highlight?]

Well looks like intermission
There's a good Leedskalin flik on tonight
[Thanks Master plaster]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1523833666089029157&ei=QphQS7DFNMaA-AaJifChBQ&q=the+secret+of+universe&emb=1
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 16, 2010, 12:49:27 AM
Marco
is it just the TPU you think is a waste?
Or Don Smith
Leedskalin
Dollard
Kapanadze
etc etc..
Chet

The TPU is like fireing a gun at a small target in total darkness.

Ok see,what i did,i started to look at all devices i could find and i looked for the device that had the most info on it.
This new device became my new project.
The information is overwhelming and after looking into the details you know exactly:

*what you need
*how to build it
*what to use
*what to look for
*circuits
Etc. etc truly everything you need to do it...

Also the inventor is prepared to talk about his invention, that fact alone blews the TPU into the garbage can.

I had a hard time switching from total darkness to a new brilliantly lit workbench....Seriously i am still having problems with that,it cannot be this easy can it? it sure can...

It does not matter if anything is real or fake if you do not have enough information about it to replicate it...Because you will never suceed.

So you can either shoot in the dark forever or try to grab more light....




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 12:54:56 AM


I wonder if any body knows how that pulse DC is created in the secondary?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Dansway on January 16, 2010, 12:56:27 AM
@ -[Marco]-

Are you talking about Bedini tech?

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 16, 2010, 01:05:07 AM
@ -[Marco]-

Are you talking about Bedini tech?

No i am sorry i have done some Bedini replications but i left magnetics entirely... my personal oppinion is that this is not the correct mechanism.


I wonder if any body knows how that pulse DC is created in the secondary?


Why do you ask us? why not ask the inventor....
He is the only one that can clear this situation, and i do not think he is going to do that Mannix.......
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 01:06:18 AM
The TPU is the joke of the century Paul.
The problem is that most people are still living in the dream.....


Marco, you and EM became dissallusioned with the tpu. You found you could fake a device on camera, so therefore the original device must have been faked as well. My question to you is this. Would your devices... either one.... would they have withstood close up examination by an EE???

If not, then you have no proof of anything but that YOU faked a device convincingly.

Remember that SM's devices were actually scrutinized at close range by professional people SUSPECTING a scam to begin with. This is often overlooked or ignored by nay-sayers. It had secondary validation of various sources, which scamsters cannot afford to have, or real devices by real professionals.

Five thousand fakes and fifty thousand failed replications will not change that issue.

I have spent over two grand myself, join the club. I have built ~twenty or thirty different TPU's, and spent countless hours examining them, trying a wide range of techniques.

Yet for every failure I have seen interesting and often times unexplainable effects, and potential effects which have scared the living daylights out of me. I am not one to change knowledge bases easily, or throw out long cherished notions of physics, yet I have had to completely revamp my supposed "knowledge" of electromagnetism more than once because of my research.

This is anything BUT a false lead. The largest problem with replication is overcoming X years worth of SM interpretations, combined with very half-assed explanations and descriptions from the inventor himself. It truthfully makes me think he was achieving results without complete understanding on his own part, comparable to that Hutchison dude I came across years back.

As far as one way to build? That has never been true. There is always more than one way to do anything. If Tony has found another way, dissimilar to the original in build, but working from the same principles, then great!

As for the potential for such a device to work? Which principle do you disagree with... 1. A moving electric field can generate electricity? OR 2. Electric fields affect the movement of electrons?

You guys have been, to the best of my understanding, concentrating on magnetic field effects, ignoring half of the equation. Have you tried manipulating motional electric fields? The other half of ELECTROmagnetism?

Most of the problems people have been having here from what I have seen was the same problem I suffered from. They ASSUMED to much.

Most of the affects we see HAVE been seen by EE's. Theorists in science are almost never truly hands-on, so generally see little. EE's generally have given them the term 'anomaly', fixed the circuits to where the effect is nullified, and move on.

EE's are not trained to be theorists, so don't have the instinct to step back and say "WHAT THE HECK!!!!" when faced with a purely theoretical basis "should not be happening" situation, nor are they paid to. They are engineers whom can do amazing stuff with what is on hand, and generally understand WHY a circuit works BETTER than a theorist would, believe it or not.

The magnetic field and electric field effects are nothing new, they are merely relegated. If a good theorist were to talk at length with several good EE's about the observed effects they have observed, and 'fixed', they would either be disbelieved or it would floor the theorist.

What everyone needs to QUIT doing is assuming. ASSUMPTION is the main basis for stumped research on anything.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 16, 2010, 01:16:10 AM
YES! EXACTLY!!!

Get rid of the vague shit and replace it by CLEAR stuff.
I am not saying the TPU is fake i am saying we do not have enough info to replicate it and that makes it a joke!
Give a caveman all the parts of a car and wait untill he drives by..but he got no tools to begin with...

Paul it's not hard to fake anything on video...Real or not this thing isn't going to be replicated or at least not in our lifetime..

Gosh i am getting tired repeating myself i'd better stop.
It's up to you guy's.

over and OUR.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 01:16:27 AM
There is an effect in this spiral coil ..that only manifests in another coil .

Have a look ..see it and then you will all find agreement .

Like..... WTF is this?
But no ....many of you have already decided  with out even looking ..and you HAVE instruction on how to see it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 16, 2010, 01:22:26 AM
The TPU is like fireing a gun at a small target in total darkness.

Ok see,what i did,i started to look at all devices i could find and i looked for the device that had the most info on it.
This new device became my new project.
The information is overwhelming and after looking into the details you know exactly:

*what you need
*how to build it
*what to use
*what to look for
*circuits
Etc. etc truly everything you need to do it...

Also the inventor is prepared to talk about his invention, that fact alone blews the TPU into the garbage can.

I had a hard time switching from total darkness to a new brilliantly lit workbench....Seriously i am still having problems with that,it cannot be this easy can it? it sure can...

It does not matter if anything is real or fake if you do not have enough information about it to replicate it...Because you will never suceed.

So you can either shoot in the dark forever or try to grab more light....

This inventor, "prepared to talk about his invention," would it be DLS?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2010, 01:24:19 AM
I have to say
Quote:

Also the inventor is prepared to talk about his invention, that fact alone blews the TPU into the garbage can.

I had a hard time switching from total darkness to a new brilliantly lit workbench....Seriously i am still having problems with that,it cannot be this easy can it? it sure can...

It does not matter if anything is real or fake if you do not have enough information about it to replicate it...Because you will never suceed.

So you can either shoot in the dark forever or try to grab more light....
---------------------------------------------------
This obviously makes a lot of sence

Whats on your bench Marco??
{besides the Fat girl]




Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 01:29:01 AM

I wonder if any body knows how that pulse DC is created in the secondary?

Electric field would be the first strong guess, based opon several facts.

1. The two coils are effectively magnetically uncoupled.
2. The geometry of the primary winding implies a regularly twisting rotating magnetic field. (string of pearls type visualization.)
3. The elctromagnetic field associated with the magnetic field would therefore follow suit, in a string of pearls configuration, leaving both high field potential and low field potential 'gaps' rotating around the coil with the field.

Since the magnetic field is 'out of phase' so to speak, it cannot be directly responsible for any main observed affects. A rotating electric field of similar geonmetry would force electrons to move REGARDLESS of orientation, due to repulsion of electrons trapped within the valleys in potential.

Such a field could not produce anything BUT dc spikes. The rotating magnetic string of pearls would naturally affect the local magnetic background, causing magnetic reflections and resonances of no real power or significance to appear in the secondary coil, thereby confusing the issue.

However, since I have no means to "see" or really measure a moving electric field, it becomes a guess, though a strong contender for logical reasons.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 16, 2010, 01:37:28 AM
There is an effect in this spiral coil ..that only manifests in another coil .

Have a look ..see it and then you will all find agreement .

Like..... WTF is this?
But no ....many of you have already decided  with out even looking ..and you HAVE instruction on how to see it.

It will cost me only time to test this as I already have all I need.

Despite the drama, this is an interesting effect.  Induction is taking place, in a unique way.  How does induction occur given the relative angles of the wire between the two coils?

How exactly can we model the magnetic loop line interaction during this process?

Can these magnetic loop interactions cause some vortex event and strong interaction with 'ambient' energy?

Can a small displacement current be made to induce a large conduction current?  The world may never know.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 16, 2010, 02:16:06 AM

I know you like TUBES. Is that what all the devices had in common on your overunityresearch.com brochure ?[the green highlight?]


Okay so i can answer this for you as it is a good question :)

The fat primary winding that all 3 devices have in common:

This fat few turn primary tickles the secondary "under the chin"
Mr. E Dollard explaind this, he said the charge generated by this fat primary coil was moving too fast for the electrons in the secondary to keep up with.
According to him this had a choking effect on the electrons and the flow of cold electricity was the result.  :)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg216241#msg216241
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 16, 2010, 02:17:51 AM
I dont want to sound stupid or repetitive. Bedini has shown his quick "replication" of the eOrbo on youtube where he claims that the motor will spin because the "curly A field" (I know some will say this does not exists) but the motor is spinning still.

If you just dream with this invisible unimaginable "curly A field" exists, could it be possible that it is the one that causes the "induction" on the primary, without having an "reflection" (Newton's Law) back (therefore Len's effect) to the causing field?

It is almost as if this secondary is able, because of such strange geometric shape, cause this interaction in a way that is not that visible in classic theory. It would be always there even in transformers BUT absorbed in a way that it does not make any effects, but in this configuration (and in Bedini's video which is very obvious - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYh8W3_EZjc) it manifests itself freely (or half way freely) allowing it to cause, again, an action at the primary without a "Reflection" back.

I would theorize that we would see many, many sinusoidal waves at the primary until a "approximation" of the pulses on the secondary would cause the "curly A fields" to "merge" and create a instantaneous reaction at the primary in a "square wave" phasion.

To test that I think would be possible by simply having a wire (A) being crossed by another wire (B) and simply pulse A 50% duty cycle until you see a square wave at B. It would be impossible to see that square wave in B, right? but what about having 3 As crossing one B and try it again?

Fausto.

ps: too much beer by now and Pinga!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 02:25:54 AM
@Marco and all of uncertainty
Im not saying this is Stevens TPU . Im not saying I have ou
I am saying that an interesting effect is here that MAY be involved and MAY lead to an understanding that MAY lead to a TPU...or something like it . Far too may may's ay?

Just  have a frigin look and stfu untill you see this .... other wise egg May be tattood on ones face.

I had no results at first and wondered wtf tony was on about , but I was prepered to wonder if I might have stuffed up somehow and to keep looking ..just long enough to to go WTF is this ..please try and get there at least.

Then by all means, rave about what the effect is and how you are an expert because you already know everything about it.

You are very good at winding coils and making video's to prove it. Thank you for showing us that. It MAY make you a better candidate for the egg tattoo.

This Needs colaboration
It will be a shame if another closed group has to form just because of the unwillingness of those who CAN do this dont , allowing the noise factor to increase logarithmically as it does , like when one baby cries in a maternity ward  , they all start.

Only one baby ever needed feeding


@ rosphere, paul,
you wont be dissapointed

The others who have seen it ...well you know!

Keep posting if you have the courage , otherwise good luck!

To the others on the fence with no will or intent but to stir the pot ...enjoy the show! Please try not to cheer or boo

Lindsay



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2010, 03:00:06 AM
Lindsay
Couldn't agree more!

Please detail as much as possible, what you have in front of you
From A-Z ,to get this effect.

Thanks
 Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 03:23:11 AM

@ rosphere, paul,
you wont be dissapointed

..............

Lindsay

I am doing the preliminaries right now, by checking the damage to my equipment. One channel at least is working properly on my four channel scope... One channel is better than none I guess.

I dread firing up the function generators....

Will wind one in the next few days.

Paul
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 03:44:30 AM
Ok

It is exactly as Tony has described.
I have not progressed to the point he had ..Im just new to this effect.

I am just simply driving a mosfet with a function generator. not an expensive one. a 555 should work the same

20 ohms from ps 30 volt to top of coil
lowside switching

1khz square wave saturating the fet  on  ( if the fet is not saturated no effect)
no fet driver yet.

there is a 27 ohm current limit resistor to gate but not needed in with my fg.

very rough indeed

I am yet to hook up a propper 3 phase controller . (Jason Owens type) I will wait untill there are more people with this base effect.

80 mm post tube 50mm high 36 slots top and bottom

again not optimum

.25 wire primary (tony said .19)

1 mm secondary 5 turns




This is all here over and over, it is best to read tony's posts.

Everything so I have was as tony described  I have more to do , lots more, so Im not the best one to ask.
When as few more of us get propper confusion, Im hopeful sure tony will add something so that we can get to second grade more quickly.



Just start the thing up and wind a few turns of secondary...hey 1 if you like .

I did find it interesting that my oscilloscope was not able to see it on some ranges which is still confusing to me
and may be a sticking point for some . A better probing method will develop Im sure

I have posted pictures and there is a small dc component in the lowest  point of the pulse that should not be there. but what would I know?

I just hope that we can do this in public ...so everybody just consider this a toy of curosity for now please.

Not curious ? No worries. Nothing needs be said.

If any body else (with steam)can help better then please do

Lindsay








Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2010, 04:03:11 AM
Thanks Lindsay
Quote:

I just hope that we can do this in public
---------------------------------------------------
I agree

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 16, 2010, 04:11:48 AM

@ rosphere, paul,
you wont be dissapointed

Lindsay

You've done the diligent replication.  I would like to try running primary winds inside the tube on the shortest path to the other side; parallel to the axis of the tube.  Like yours, my primary winds outside the tube would be 45 degrees from axis of the tube and the secondary would be wound on the outside of the primary-tube assembly.  This would tell us if the inner wind configuration, separated from the secondary by the tube and the outer winds, comes into play or not.

Maybe tomorrow when I'm fresh.  (Yawn.)

Or maybe marco's large primary: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg216241#msg216241 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg216241#msg216241)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 04:50:28 AM
You've done the diligent replication.  I would like to try running primary winds inside the tube on the shortest path to the other side; parallel to the axis of the tube.  Like yours, my primary winds outside the tube would be 45 degrees from axis of the tube and the secondary would be wound on the outside of the primary-tube assembly.  This would tell us if the inner wind configuration, separated from the secondary by the tube and the outer winds, comes into play or not.

Maybe tomorrow when I'm fresh.  (Yawn.)

Or maybe marco's large primary: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg216241#msg216241 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg216241#msg216241)

I strongly recommend starting from the base point ..It is just that the base point of reference is confusing enough.

Sure, do changes, lots of them, just make a little steam first.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ketone on January 16, 2010, 05:34:32 AM
Quote
To many real inventors try to get "funding", and in so doing get tied up legally, all info unsharable with anyone, and the invention shelved. That is what happens when one gets greedy

Paul, you are spot on...why don't they just start selling to friends and family instead of trying to go for the GOLD in one fell swoop!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 16, 2010, 07:13:48 AM
@all

Nice work , agentgates as most likely left us .

He really did !

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 07:41:40 AM
@mannix and all wanting to build a cheap multi-frequency fet driver

Modify my cheap old driver circuit to suit your needs.

http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/3555basic50contduty.jpg (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/3555basic50contduty.jpg)

Paul Andrulis

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 16, 2010, 07:42:33 AM
Has anyone made a coil like Stefans yellow coil Tony sent him? He said it was a 1kw coil, then said it wasnt complete and that it doesnt work. But then the design changed a fair amount, different primary angles, thinner primary wire, could it be that the real way to do it is as the yellow coil? He talked about having running coils. Maybe he sent Stefan the sample and got scared and just said that it doesnt work after to protect himself. I also like the larger wire. It makes more sense. But for a few strands of 30 ga, We maybe can pwer some leds
 
In tonys last pic, his coil he has been working on shows the secondary glued to the tube, no primary windings, that seems to me that the secondary is in between the inner and outer primaries, like the yellow coil.
Maybe he has something, and maybe he led us in a different direction for what ever reason, from that yellow coil.
When I visualize the inner and outer primaries both close to the secondary, I can see how the spins from both of them would affect the secondary the same way but maybe more. And maybe the primaries affect each other in a positive fashion and helps as a whole. I can see the 30 ohm resistor on the yellow coil primary, but not an 8ohm hair thin primary. He probably did get sacred and diverted from the original deal as it went along,
So I would look into the yellow coil and the earliest of info on the coils.
Yellow
Mags 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: EMdevices on January 16, 2010, 07:46:19 AM
I am very pleased to see this thread attracting so much attention,  I just discovered it after a long absence. I'll be piping in soon once I see the images and/or video  ....

EM
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
@mannix and all wanting to build a cheap multi-frequency fet driver

Modify my cheap old driver circuit to suit your needs.

http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/3555basic50contduty.jpg (http://www.randallsteward.com/TPU/pauldude000/3555basic50contduty.jpg)

Paul Andrulis

I used this for phasing a circuit, using three timers slaved to the same control circuit. Separate the timers, and put in two more control circuits. The control circuit is variable frequency/ variable pulse width. VERY stable output, and it supercharges the 555, allowing overclocking.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 16, 2010, 08:41:17 AM
@Paul, interesting circuit
the fets need to saturate thats means 10-20 volts
@all  who dont see the pulses

Please dont bother with 3 phase ...yet
Please dont change anything from tonys single primary..yet
Please dont theorise...yet

Please build one and find  those pulses ...the ones with dc

That's all you need to do to have a meaningfull conversation about why and what to do next.


Back in a few days  I dont know how to offer any more help now  because I need your help, always have.

Lindsay

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 16, 2010, 10:35:28 AM
Scared? you don't need to be stinking scared!

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: duff on January 16, 2010, 10:42:20 AM

I'm going to try Rodin's 150 degree steps as Tony mentions on the 1st page. Then we can compare  results.

-duff
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 16, 2010, 10:47:31 AM
@Paul, interesting circuit
the fets need to saturate thats means 10-20 volts
@all  who dont see the pulses

Please dont bother with 3 phase ...yet
Please dont change anything from tonys single primary..yet
Please dont theorise...yet

Please build one and find  those pulses ...the ones with dc

That's all you need to do to have a meaningfull conversation about why and what to do next.


Back in a few days  I dont know how to offer any more help now  because I need your help, always have.

Lindsay

After you reminded me of that, I went and checked my breadboard. I WAS directly driving the fets... Checked the specs for the TS555CN, and there is why. :)

Astable stable to 2.0 MHZ
Voltage +2 to +16 supply
At +12 supply, has a minimum of 10.5 volts on high output.... this will be even higher at +16.

Here is a link to the datasheet

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/STMICROELECTRONICS/STMICROELECTRONICS_ACTIVES-AND-PASSIVES_2480062.PDF (http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/STMICROELECTRONICS/STMICROELECTRONICS_ACTIVES-AND-PASSIVES_2480062.PDF)

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Rosphere on January 16, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
...I think the secret may have something to do with the interaction of the expanding and contracting magnetic field loops involved in the 45 degree relative wire offset angle.  There must be some sort of twisting of the loops in order to cause induction on the collector.  Perhaps the response loop can not twist back in the same way, so maybe, it twists 45 degrees in the other direction.  All of this combined twisting and untwisting of magnetic field loops may interact with the (aether, cosmic background energy, vacuum energy, earth E-field, whatever you call it,) in some one-way vortex interaction.  It would be interesting to see an attempt to show these magnetic loop interactions using some software tool.

EDIT:  I had a similar idea almost three years ago. (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2240.msg29283#msg29283)

I missed this earlier post:

...You don't have to catch fields at certain angles or periods of skipping where windings touch at oblique angles. Clear? There is nothing new or strange about Smiths or Dollards configurations...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2010, 01:25:16 PM
Thank you for posting this Rosphere
G K's[Giant Killer] Comments would surely be interesting here!

He is definitely nipping at the heals of understanding
and might already have caught / cornered this elusive beast
The one that hides in and around the wire's  :o :o :o

      I believe G K will tame this Beast as others have !!             
                  And he will share, unlike others have

Tony knows this!!

open source or nothing Tony!!

thats just the way our world is right now,has been that way a LONG time
Money corrupts just look at the silk road in China "5000 yrs"
We will be kept in bondage

UNLESS ;D ;D ;D    ;D ;D ;D     ;D ;D ;D

WE GOT A WORM BOYS
 no more silk/oil road

Tony knows this too!!

Chet
PS
I think I'll take a ride in the country with my wife
Maybe stop and see that fellow who's patenting his magnet motor
Landon I think
See how patenting is working out for him [would be a 1st]
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: itanimuLLi on January 16, 2010, 06:52:26 PM
@ all replycators  maybe when using the imagination how the magnetic fields travel along the primaries then cutting the secondairies. this may help understanding the theory around this.
Regards,
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: EMdevices on January 17, 2010, 07:32:27 AM
I read the first few posts by Agentgates,  and noticed the photos were liked to the text.

Did I miss something, or is this more of the same bull shit?

I thought somebody had achieved OVERUNITY results and was disclosing something of substance by applying for the prize.  I guess not.

EM
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: dankie on January 17, 2010, 08:28:15 AM
Yeah nothing here EM .

Just somebody looking for attention .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 17, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
EM
No BS, Life is much to short for that,The level of Nasty can really bum some folks out [most]
And I agree with what you said on darkspeeds thread
Diversify

No stone unturned.
WE will find this little beast and learn how to tame it.
of that I am certain!!
Its already been done, many times in many ways.

That will be the difference here [in this forum]
It won't be a secret.

As we all know Secrets suck,they don't change anything
And whatever happens here will not be secret.
@ All
You have something good to say 
something you found as a result of Tony's Coil design /research
please Post it!!

@Dankie

Hows things??

Chet

PS
Diversity will be temporary

We all know the Talent and desire that is here [in this forum]

When someone corners this beast

there will be a great FOCUS

No secrets
 [thats where this beast hides ,smoke filled rooms,lies, deceit  secret handshakes etc..]

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 17, 2010, 11:36:04 AM
Ok  Captain Caveman here.

I had tried my coil that I posted a pic of earlier in this thread quite a bit with my primitive power supply and magnetic oscillators and never saw any voltage on the secondary, not a peep.
So I decided to put it down and wait to see the easy setup from Gates.  It aint gunna happen

But today, I thought to try an led on the secondary. My secondary is inside the inner and outer primaries, like we were told to do in the beginning. So I also thought to try an outer primary too, Well, they both light leds, together, at the same time. So inside, outside, it dont matter much. But heres the thing, my inner primary has many many wraps, but my outer is only less that 3 turns, and both leds are just as bright.
Heres a vid, So grab a box of captain crunch and check out how to do it Cave Man style.
It isnt putting out 150 watts, But Cavebaby  got some stone age results.  Ok back to the cave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOMzSpPHFo0

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 17, 2010, 03:04:56 PM
Cave guy

Nice coil
thanks for the movie and experiments
and showing how to experiment on a budget[very cool]
Will watch again while I drink my coffee

Thanks
Chet

PS   You have many skills Grass Hopper
What are the specs on your Coil?

And a sexy close up would be nice


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 17, 2010, 04:58:35 PM
Super Good job Captain Caveman.

Thank you for sharing your video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOMzSpPHFo0

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: beboszek on January 17, 2010, 08:26:03 PM
Hi
On the picture below (ostatnia_proba_tony_tpu.jpg) you can see probably the brightest lamp in this thread (this is car bulb 12V 21W) and it is shining with its full brightness...

But don't be excited. I have made many measurements of Tony's setup and my conclusion is: this ain't TPU.

Setup from the picture description:
1. 124mm diameter paper tube, two control coils of about 70 turns each and 45 degrees. Both coils wound all around the tube.
2. Collector wound around all of this, as seen on the picture. About 20 turns (now when writing this, I'm in another place) of ~1.5mm copper wire.
3. Control coils driven independently with circuits similar to the one from my first post.
4. Source of 50% duty cycle square wave is a generator capable of generating up to 4 independent, galvanically isolated signals in wide range of frequencies up to few MHz. Apart of that, it is possible to synchronize all signals and to set desired phase shift. Maximum power is achieved while phase shift of second signal is 0 degrees or/and frequency is a multiplication of the first one.
5. Input power is about 100W, and output about 20W


Now I will briefly write here, what has been done.

1. I was investigating output waveform presented in my post on page 37. Looking at the voltage measured across the control coil, showed that there is bad oscillation after falling edge of input signal. I made a A class push-pull MOSFET amplifier (picture wzmacniacz.jpg), that is able to drive coils with no oscillation, providing up to 25Vpp and slopes 160V/us (very fast). I was very surprised, when I connected it to the coil. Indeed, there were no oscillation on the input signal, but also the output signal changed to the square wave of bad shape (picture protokaty.jpg). Driving the coil with a sine wave provided low level sinusoidal output. In both cases the bulb was shining, but very barely. Conclusion from this point is that oscillation and spikes occurring while driving with single MOSFET are needed to achieve big spikes on the secondary, and because of transforming input wave shape to output, it seemed to act as a regular transformer (of low efficiency due to lack of the core)

2. I wound second control coil, as described above. Have been playing with that  setup quite a long time, changing frequencies, phases, voltages. Everything I did confirmed regular transformer thesis. Actually Tony's setup can be described as two coils on the same axis, while the primary coil is working with half of its efficiency because of its 45 degrees winding. Its field has two components: vertical and horizontal, and this vertical component couples with secondary coil.

3. This device is no orientation dependent, no vibration, no other weird effects. Putting an iron core inside boost up efficiency. While having more output power, it is seen that output waveforms are not DC pulses. It is AC with short positive spike and long but low level negative part. Energies positive and negative seems to be equal. Driving it with pure square or sine wave shows that very clearly.

-----------------
Now I will go back to research of TPU as described in Steven Mark's letters. Maybe some of you will prove Tony's setup is a TPU or OU device of some other kind. The words I wrote today are only my personal research conclusion.

Marek
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 17, 2010, 09:19:36 PM
Thanks Dudes
I need a scope and looking now. The coil is like AG said to go for in the first place, as in the primary angles. I posted a pic earlier Ill post it here. 28ga wire for pri and sec.

I had tried to just send the bemf pulse from the osc directly to the coil but storing a few in a cap then dumping is better. I just had to try some of these things I had learned from pulse motor experience.

Uggh, me makes powa!  ahh, me get MTV on scope?  Ooooo ooo OOOooo!

Very nice Bebo  Im still going to play with this more.

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 17, 2010, 09:25:34 PM
Thanks Dudes
I need a scope and looking now. The coil is like AG said to go for in the first place, as in the primary angles. I posted a pic earlier Ill post it here. 28ga wire for pri and sec.

I had tried to just send the bemf pulse from the osc directly to the coil but storing a few in a cap then dumping is better. I just had to try some of these things I had learned from pulse motor experience.

Uggh, me makes powa!  ahh, me get MTV on scope?  Ooooo ooo OOOooo!

Very nice Bebo  Im still going to play with this more.

Magscave

Mag, I notice your primary windings are 'down under' oriented. Are you aware?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 17, 2010, 09:25:41 PM
Also I think the primaries could be a bit beefier, as Gates used to begin with, it is what he made the claim on, then changed everything along the way.  My aim is toward Stefans yellow coil.
Stefan could you post some different angle pics of that yellow coil?  Please =]

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 17, 2010, 09:28:59 PM
Tes

Do you mean the secondary is inside the primay? Just like we were told to do in the beginning? And those parameters changed along the way? So we could not effectively reproduce before Gates?

lol  Thats the way I see it.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: teslaalset on January 17, 2010, 10:01:14 PM
Tes

Do you mean the secondary is inside the primay? Just like we were told to do in the beginning? And those parameters changed along the way? So we could not effectively reproduce before Gates?

lol  Thats the way I see it.

Mags

I mean the diagonal windings.
Have a look at Broli's instruction page: http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 17, 2010, 10:07:32 PM
@all

Hello , i am still working on a 1.5 volts version .

But was thinking of making a op amp square wave generator, SM was a audoi guy , maybe i will put a audio amp too with it tda2003 10watt on 9 volts.


but so far ...

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 17, 2010, 10:14:52 PM
Tes
This was the first coil I made before Gates changed the angle to 45 deg. This has been a question of mine. If Gates was making a claim on those parameters, then why the change to 45 deg? Also If you saw his last pic in the post of the coil he was working on, he has the secondary glued to the tube before the primaries, so that means that the secondary IS wrapped around by the primaries, not the secondary outside the primaries. I think he got worried and threw us in another direction till he finished a presentable prize winner. That is if his claim is real.  But Im on a caveman mission, Quest for Fire.  Oooo oo

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 17, 2010, 11:19:59 PM
I mean the diagonal windings.
Have a look at Broli's instruction page: http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm

Those of you who have previously downloded Broli's renditions from http://ziosproject.com/NJ/AAcoilPres/index.htm may be interested to know he has added a very useful template for
marking the tube prior to winding the coil. Thanks Broli.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 18, 2010, 12:01:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8uwx9pQWT4

Tried one of my Big coils inside the gates coil and I have burned up 2 leds with it.
Im looking to try a larger primary wire ga later tonight.  I may even try wrapping a Big coil to see what it does.

Oooo ahhh ahhh oo

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: slapper on January 18, 2010, 01:55:46 AM
@Magluvin

With your large coil in the center try shorting out your secondary that is wrapped inside your slanted winds.

Take care.

nap

Edit: oops - if you are running DC pulses it may run different than running resonant ac. Sorry.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 18, 2010, 05:11:18 AM
Hi
On the picture below (ostatnia_proba_tony_tpu.jpg) you can see probably the brightest lamp in this thread (this is car bulb 12V 21W) and it is shining with its full brightness...

But don't be excited. I have made many measurements of Tony's setup and my conclusion is: this ain't TPU.

Setup from the picture description:
1. 124mm diameter paper tube, two control coils of about 70 turns each and 45 degrees. Both coils wound all around the tube.
2. Collector wound around all of this, as seen on the picture. About 20 turns (now when writing this, I'm in another place) of ~1.5mm copper wire.
3. Control coils driven independently with circuits similar to the one from my first post.
4. Source of 50% duty cycle square wave is a generator capable of generating up to 4 independent, galvanically isolated signals in wide range of frequencies up to few MHz. Apart of that, it is possible to synchronize all signals and to set desired phase shift. Maximum power is achieved while phase shift of second signal is 0 degrees or/and frequency is a multiplication of the first one.
5. Input power is about 100W, and output about 20W


Now I will briefly write here, what has been done.

1. I was investigating output waveform presented in my post on page 37. Looking at the voltage measured across the control coil, showed that there is bad oscillation after falling edge of input signal. I made a A class push-pull MOSFET amplifier (picture wzmacniacz.jpg), that is able to drive coils with no oscillation, providing up to 25Vpp and slopes 160V/us (very fast). I was very surprised, when I connected it to the coil. Indeed, there were no oscillation on the input signal, but also the output signal changed to the square wave of bad shape (picture protokaty.jpg). Driving the coil with a sine wave provided low level sinusoidal output. In both cases the bulb was shining, but very barely. Conclusion from this point is that oscillation and spikes occurring while driving with single MOSFET are needed to achieve big spikes on the secondary, and because of transforming input wave shape to output, it seemed to act as a regular transformer (of low efficiency due to lack of the core)

2. I wound second control coil, as described above. Have been playing with that  setup quite a long time, changing frequencies, phases, voltages. Everything I did confirmed regular transformer thesis. Actually Tony's setup can be described as two coils on the same axis, while the primary coil is working with half of its efficiency because of its 45 degrees winding. Its field has two components: vertical and horizontal, and this vertical component couples with secondary coil.

3. This device is no orientation dependent, no vibration, no other weird effects. Putting an iron core inside boost up efficiency. While having more output power, it is seen that output waveforms are not DC pulses. It is AC with short positive spike and long but low level negative part. Energies positive and negative seems to be equal. Driving it with pure square or sine wave shows that very clearly.

-----------------
Now I will go back to research of TPU as described in Steven Mark's letters. Maybe some of you will prove Tony's setup is a TPU or OU device of some other kind. The words I wrote today are only my personal research conclusion.

Marek

Hi Marek,
many thanks for the interesting research results.

Did you ever find out, why there was this hump wave in your first scope shots ?
From what did they come ?

Please let us know, if you know it.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 18, 2010, 07:38:05 AM
" Conclusion from this point is that oscillation and spikes occurring while driving with single MOSFET are needed to achieve big spikes on the secondary, and because of transforming input wave shape to output, it seemed to act as a regular transformer (of low efficiency due to lack of the core)
il.

Marek"

The same for me, it seem that spikes are needed to provide some effect on the secondary.

My suggestion is to drive the primary with a Bedini oscillator that have fast transients.

Wings

Update:
with the obvious warnings of this operation :o :o :o
removing the part from diode bridge ....
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 18, 2010, 01:14:41 PM
@all

I am still experimenting with the coil it self , on a jt .

I succeed in lighting a filament bulb brighter than on the source battery .

Also noted fact for jt fans , usually you get either power from the secondary or the basic led , but in this case both .

The main pulse from the jt is not affected , by putting a resistor on the secondary or even closing the secondary.

I made it from a Toilet Paper  roll so i call it a TP Unit  ;).

Whether this is marks tpu or not , it sure works better then my usual jt.
And worth investigation.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 18, 2010, 02:48:27 PM
Nice job MK1!

What is the output and input power levels?  Also what is the bulb rated at?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wings on January 18, 2010, 10:33:15 PM
Some test using 0.06 mm primary wire close to 43 US gauge, and 0.75 mm secondary.
Max primary current 0.4 A spike on secondary max at end of square wave.

As you can see I was not able to light led.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 18, 2010, 11:15:06 PM
disconnect the loop you created with the cro ground input



monitor output only  ..no load for now

reverse the cro leads

zoom in and out



Edit ..my post spelling changes after i post it???what the ???
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: xee2 on January 18, 2010, 11:53:51 PM
@ Mannix

Edit ..my post spelling changes after i post it???what the ???

Please add your complaint to the "Forum editor has problem" thread. Maybe if enough people complain something will be done about it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 19, 2010, 12:40:13 AM
Nice job MK1!

What is the output and input power levels?  Also what is the bulb rated at?

The output is , about 80 volts i would say , i use a 1.3 volt aa regular cell.

The bulb i really can't tell , i got it from salvaging a old 70 radio , it is blinding bright on a 9v battery. It barely lights from the battery it self , i would say its 2 to 3 times brighter on the secondary. At the CE if i rectify it i get around 40 volts.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 19, 2010, 12:50:03 AM
I went through all of Agent Gates’s posts & SUMMARIZED the most important points to see if it helps us out.


1.  In this manner the secondary wire will provide DC current.

2.  Thinner primary and more turns on the secondary. One IRFP460 driving them. No significant heat.

3.  Try all 3 Phases in 1-2-3 and 3-2-1 SEQUENCE, also change positive and negative and please share us your results.

4.  Output peak goes to 153V. No significant drop on it after connecting the 250V/50W halogen light bulb. Only a few volts.

5.  This gluing thing really screwd up my plans but the 2x200V secondary is on now. I need one more side to glue and a 3rd secondary for the electronics to make it self running.

6.  I remembered when I started the TPU research I had coil that worked but I have successfully caused a thousand pound damage in my lab during the research and I couldn't work for nearly a year on it.

7.  They are not only stronger but a lot more spikes when you drive all 3 coils.  I put a 50W 240 halogen bulb on it. They just don't care about your load. By only increasing the input voltage the spikes are coming closer and closer a bit, some kind of spin-up effect.

8.  When you will drive the 3 coils, please make sure you start it from low frequency and increase it slowly as the spikes will come closer and closer. If they rapidly merge your coil may blow up.  I have had one Melt Down on me already.

9.  Also they will be far stronger when you'll fire the 2 other coils in sequence.  The loads seems to have little or no effect on the primary accelerator circuit.  If this device can be synchronized with itself it seems many things might be possible.

10.  Don’t use a high frequency.  Stay in a FIXED lower range (e.g. 100Hz or 1kHz). Driving them at LOW FREQUENCY works best!  It is not a radio device.

11.  Not critical, depending on your load. It is nothing but a performance multiplier transformer where the output is the sum of the input and the extracted energy. You can use it in a wide range from 100Hz to 1MHz if you have a well-shielded room as there is radio broadcasting in the higher frequency ranges and at that power you can disturb it.

12.  Today when I built the device I found that the energy moves in the device is far above 1kW, the only obstacle that it comes out where you would never expect it: it doesn't heat the coil at all, they remain cold but cooks the switching FET on the primary coil nearly instantly.

13.  Yes. There are 2 ways to make it SPIN.  You can give it a single big spike and many tiny ones to keep it rotating. The other solution is simpler: start slapping it up with higher voltage and when you reached the demanded output voltage just keep it up with the tiny slaps. It only takes a few mA to keep it spinning, not more.

14.  The second is easier to keep the circuitry simple. You only need a variable input voltage, but a fixed voltage will also work. But perhaps you will need to wait a couple of seconds while it spins up. (The JET-turbine effect that SM mentioned) Actually you will be able to vary the output with the frequency alteration but that will be not that efficient. (for now it is enough, you need the variable input only if you want the maximum from your device.

15.  Here’s what I mean.  If your device over runs, the spikes might merge to a huge spike. What we are doing here is like laying a brick one to another, while the other side (your load on it) removes some bricks from the top. All you need to do is to keep the level on the required level. If you let it create too much (too big spike) that is a high voltage and high current spike and has a huge electromagnetic effect on your coil.  The same thing that SM mentioned with the little 5 year old guy and the blown up TV that created so big of an electromagnetic field that pulled nails out of walls towards the screen (killed the guy) and other weird things.

16.  Yes of course I have already made a coil for you yesterday that naturally you can keep. The one I mentioned puts out 190V to the 50W for ~30 seconds before you can smell the plastic on it, so it's a bit below 50W and since I don't have light bulb for 1W handy at the moment to verify the requirements I decided to build a larger device for you that comfortably supply usable energy. Before I send it I will also video it and upload it to my youtube channel.

17.  Yes, I noticed that yesterday on the large one I built for Stefan the primary is cooler than both the ambient and the secondary coil. The secondary is about on room temperature. It is the sign of created inertia and gravitational force. so if you have multiple primary coils and shoot them after each other that would feel a shooting inertia and gyro effect that SM's withnesses felt.

18.  Today when I built your device I found that the energy moves in the device is far above 1kW, the only obstacle that it comes out where you would never expect it: it doesn't heat the coil at all, they remain cold but cooks the switching FET on the primary coil nearly instantly.


.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: vince on January 19, 2010, 01:47:39 AM
Found this  while looking at TPU videos on you tube. Maybe it's nothing but it caught my attention.

dreamyear (1 month ago)

Reply
look up my previous video..it's all there

agentgates (2 weeks ago)
 
Reply |
Hi, I heard this is a replica of the original device. Do you know anything about how they did it? Thanks.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 19, 2010, 02:25:20 AM
@MK1

Thanks for ansewering my questions!  I'm glad you are working on this as you can help the JT folks in design as well as me if I pick it up....still thinking about it! but it seems to have potential...I'm just not sure if I want to start on some othe ideas I have had.  ANyway you doing some great work as usual.   I know i have not had much input on the JT topic but I am still following.   ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 19, 2010, 02:28:19 AM
Ok  just got out of the cave and I beat this into shape with some rocks and an elephant tusk.  Ooo oo

Im just going on a hunch. About to hook it up.

Be back in a bit

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 19, 2010, 02:34:36 AM
@ Magluvin

SUPER GOOD HUNCH Magluvin.  I was wondering the same thing!!!!


.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 19, 2010, 02:48:51 AM
Thanks Fatbird

Its 10 turns secondary of 16ga and the primary 114 turns 24ga. The primary is a single coil but the first go round had spaces twice as large as what you see and the second round is in those spaces, so it is a bifi in series. I figured that as long as the spaces between individual turns was 1/4 in, the other round should be ok in between and maybe thats what a bifi is all about. Im hookin it up too the cave setup as we speak, err post.  =]

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 19, 2010, 03:32:04 AM
Hey Magluvin,

great work man. Make a video as the usual!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 19, 2010, 03:51:57 AM
Welp  waiting for the soldering iron to heat up. The mayan's would be scared of me because of how many reeds I have sacrificed.  Was messing me up. The blue glow wasnt there but lots of thunderstorms in the source oscillator. Then the reed went into a crying sweep in freq but little output.  It has some build up between the contacts.

Be done soon.

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 19, 2010, 04:20:15 AM
Hi Magscave,
please try to use 2 Reed switches in series.
This will make faster current cutoffs, dI/dt will be faster and give you more induction kickback voltage.
ALso it will save a few Reed Switches.

Good luck.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 19, 2010, 04:28:07 AM
Movies,

I love the movies!!
I heard there was a good mystery playing here tonight.

But this one looks like a THRILLER!

Hope he doesn't burn the film with that bright light!!


Are they gonna give us sunglasses??

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 19, 2010, 06:01:44 AM
Ok well I did a vid, and it shows that the led is very bright on the secondary. But I need to go mosfet and 555 from here. I need to have consistancy. The way the reeds are sticking and firing kind of erratically, the demonstration is broken up. The new reed in the relay, I changed them both, isnt working the same as the other. I used a bigger activator mag there and when the relay coil reed is latched, the led on the seondary is lit from the bemf being stored into the cap, but as I take the mag away she fires that led up.  But I want to do this thing better with some fets.

New coil demo   it isnt processed yet so may not be clear at first  just loaded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMlrbjOUsW4

This is an led burning up on oscillator bemf, just did it and was surprised how long it burned.  boring but I caught clear vid inside the led.  My camera, I have to pre focus then record, so thats why it is dull till we see in the led.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ISJWYHPaTQ

I will try that Stefan Thanks.   I think that the duty cycle needs to be more than what Im producing.  Cant tell till I get a scope. But saving the reeds would be a good thing.  =]   SRF   Save the reed foundation 

Magscave
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on January 19, 2010, 08:34:40 AM
Hi wings and all,

summary: I found that the kind/brand of switching device I use has a big influence on the output. It is probably a good idea to try different ones. I think they "resonate differently". Thus the light output on the secondary is different for each one.

details:
From my square wave generator I go straight into the switching device and then straight into the primary. I tried three different switches (haven't got any other ones):
IRF540N
2N3055
BU508D (out of an old TV)
Each one gives a different result. For me the BU508D works best.

I power them from a 12 V car battery and use a 21W car light bulb as a load in series with the primary coil.

My signals look just like the ones wings posted here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8586.msg223711#msg223711
Top trace is primary, lower trace is secondary, isn't it?

On the secondary I can light leds and make small filament lightbulbs glow. In my setup this happens between 1 kHz and 5 kHz. At the critical frequencies the input current goes down and the lightbulb in the primary circuit gets dim/extinguished.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on January 19, 2010, 01:32:12 PM
....made it from a Toilet Paper  roll so i call it a TP Unit  ;).
Hi Mk1,

I wound it on sewage pipes, so I consider the SPU my intellectual property, and should you ever infringe on it, your lawyers will hear from mine.

The depicted setup is as described in my previous post.

The light bulb is lit across the "speaker cord secondary" which is located in the ring.
Got the idea from FatBird, but ended up connecting the two strands of the cord in parallel, so it is not bifilar, as per his recommendations. Gives me better results that way.
But need to experiment further.

The leds are lit from the end of the original secondary. That original secondary is wound 'agentgates style' and the leds are attached only to one end of that secondary via an AV plug (Avramenko plug). This AV plug is grounded.
The other end of the 'agentgates secondary' is free, i.e. not connected to anything.

The signal on the scope is from the 'speaker cord secondary' with probe across the filament bulb, 5 V per div.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 19, 2010, 02:08:53 PM
Thank you for sharing your GREAT setup Oscar.

If you THROW AWAY that sewer pipe & wrap the speaker wire around the TPU you will get 10 TIMES as much output.

No offense.  I am just trying to help.

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 19, 2010, 02:57:59 PM
Oscar

''I wound it on sewage pipes, so I consider the SPU my intellectual property, and should you ever infringe on it, your lawyers will hear from mine.''

very good ;D ;D ;D

Seems like you and Mk1[toilet paper roll]
Have that part of the house covered

Thanks for sharing your hard work and results!

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2010, 04:14:03 PM
What happened to Agentgate's ? Did he die ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: broli on January 19, 2010, 04:15:41 PM
What happened to Agentgate's ? Did he die ?

His soul will live on in every little TPU that is out there  ;D .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 19, 2010, 07:10:24 PM
Oscar

''I wound it on sewage pipes, so I consider the SPU my intellectual property, and should you ever infringe on it, your lawyers will hear from mine.''

very good ;D ;D ;D

Seems like you and Mk1[toilet paper roll]
Have that part of the house covered

Thanks for sharing your hard work and results!

Chet

Crap. Looks like I'll be returning some 4" sewage pipe to Home Depot this morning. Too bad, it's perfect $7 for 10' was going to produce quite a few coils. Another idea of mine down the drain.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 19, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
@ Bullsnbears1

Crap. Looks like I'll be returning some 4" sewage pipe to Home Depot this morning. Too bad, it's perfect $7 for 10' was going to produce quite a few coils. Another idea of mine down the drain.

========================================================

Why not keep the pipe & use it like this.

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 19, 2010, 08:23:20 PM
@ Bullsnbears1

Crap. Looks like I'll be returning some 4" sewage pipe to Home Depot this morning. Too bad, it's perfect $7 for 10' was going to produce quite a few coils. Another idea of mine down the drain.

========================================================

Why not keep the pipe & use it like this.

.

Yes, I'll be keeping it. It's perfect and very thin-walled compared to fittings like you used.

I was making a bad attempt at being funny.  ;)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: captainpecan on January 20, 2010, 08:16:36 AM
I've been trying to catch up on this thread, and have been reading for days while working on another project.  I'm sorry if this has been covered, but I never saw Agentgates post a video showing his claims?  Did Stefan ever receive a working unit to justify the claims? Could someone point me to a link or maybe a page I've missed?  Or has this project just sorta drifted in many independent directions?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Qwert on January 20, 2010, 09:24:34 AM
@captainpecan,

I watch this thread from the very beginning. No video or any proof instead of claims of proof. Agentgates left this thread since he claims that Stefan Hartman and other users were too impatient and urged him to post the video, contrary to the initial agreement.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 20, 2010, 11:49:32 AM
Qwert
quote
I watch this thread from the very beginning. No video or any proof instead of claims of proof. Agentgates left this thread since he claims that Stefan Hartman and other users were too impatient and urged him to post the video, contrary to the initial agreement.
---------------------------------------

Yes things got mixed around ,
I absolutely believe Tony is a man of integrity and good intentions
and I believe he has found something he wants to share.

He has a spiritual[very positive] side to his life and his conviction is to make this world a better place.

I personally am of the same mind set.[as a lot of you here are!]

There are no secrets here just a better Focus.[less negative]
share what "you" have
That is what Tony is going to do!

And then we shall see!
[A little patience]

Lets make the rest of our lives
the BEST of our lives

"stay tuned"

Chet

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: captainpecan on January 21, 2010, 10:06:53 AM
@captainpecan,

I watch this thread from the very beginning. No video or any proof instead of claims of proof. Agentgates left this thread since he claims that Stefan Hartman and other users were too impatient and urged him to post the video, contrary to the initial agreement.
Thanks for the update, I was pretty sure I didn't miss any pages, but I wanted to make sure.  That's to bad things haven't panned out yet with this project.  I was beginning to wonder though, if maybe he got a prematurely excited and things just didn't work as planned.  It seemed a bit funny when he kept saying the voltage and current in, but only the voltage out.  I have no doubt this is a very interesting performing transformer, but like the rest of us, was hoping more would come out of this thread considering how strong it started.

It's okay, the quest continues!  I plan on making a rodin coil as soon as I get done with my other project, so I will certainly keep following all you guys work!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on January 21, 2010, 01:07:44 PM
To clarify:

A Summary:

Tony ( AgentGates) contacted me and told me, he had a working unit,
wanted to apply with it for the OU Prize
and he wanted to send me a duplicate soon.

Then I told him, he should already post all the details and also should post
a few pics or video of his running unit.

Then he started only to show his build for me, but no proof of
a running unit. Then he asked about codec parameters cause he
"almost had his video finished". We supplied him with the right codec
parameters, but then no video came and he only showed pictures with problems
with his coils and the glue gases...
The scopeshots he showed could all be explained by capacitive coupling
and inductive kickback BackEMF
between the coils and the claimed DC OU levels he never showed.

Only Marek showed some strange hump wave hills, but he did not
post yet any explanation, but said, it depends on coupling and that his
input power was always greater than the output power..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 02:16:07 PM
He is an outright fraud....... what is being set up by him is a classic scam, using 'volunteer' time, labor, and resources to 'research' the technology, to set up a 'foundation' to market the device....

A marketing foundation pays the marketer... (IE Tony)

'Volunteers' don't get payed anything, as they are by definition volunteers.

This information is FIRSTHAND.

Faust and everyone else roped in at this point like I was until twenty minutes ago..... Don't just walk away... RUN!

I can't believe I fell for that crap.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 21, 2010, 03:13:51 PM
No I don't think he was a scam. Even you might have experienced that moment that you think you've
got the solution and your head goes in the clouds. You even get the friends and family exited!
I have been there.

Don't forget that Lindsey/mannix had some unexplainable effects too from his trials.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Operator on January 21, 2010, 03:32:13 PM
I think all the builders on the forum should be more organized. Let's create a list of persons which to trust and stop wasting our time on someone's guesses. We already have Otto's setup and somehow it works. Why not focus on it?
Remember, one fool can ask so many questions that a thousand of sages won't answer.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 21, 2010, 04:55:45 PM
Paul

I've seen some pretty fast operators in my day!

But buddy you jump to conclusions WAYYYYY to quickly!!

There is to much at stake to act this way!!
once this is analyzed [in progress] the rest will be obvious!
And the results shared with all 

No stone unturned!

Chet

Keep looking fellows !
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 21, 2010, 05:36:39 PM
He is an outright fraud....... what is being set up by him is a classic scam, using 'volunteer' time, labor, and resources to 'research' the technology, to set up a 'foundation' to market the device....

A marketing foundation pays the marketer... (IE Tony)

'Volunteers' don't get payed anything, as they are by definition volunteers.

This information is FIRSTHAND.

Faust and everyone else roped in at this point like I was until twenty minutes ago..... Don't just walk away... RUN!

I can't believe I fell for that crap.

Paul Andrulis

RUN!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 08:54:59 PM
Paul

I've seen some pretty fast operators in my day!

But buddy you jump to conclusions WAYYYYY to quickly!!

There is to much at stake to act this way!!
once this is analyzed [in progress] the rest will be obvious!
And the results shared with all 

No stone unturned!

Chet

Keep looking fellows !

Ramset.... I don't jump to conclusions.

He set up his own little party elsewhere, and I was invited to join, along with many others from OU.com.

He hung himself with his own words. He made a grand initial speech about showing us how it was made, and how he wanted us to figure out how it works, document it, and then publish it in the open source. He welcomed us 'volunteers' to help him in this.

I was fine with that concept.

After a couple of days, he posted a grand set of goals....... which did NOT include open source. It included a 'Marketing Foudation' to be set up, and the publishing to be not open source, but to small companies to manufacture.

Open source is free and open, what he is talking about requires funds, and lots of them. Marketing requires selling, not giving.

It is quite literally a 180 degree switch from the initial promise to the 'volunteers' he made at his site.

Here is the link, though it may not do anyone any good, as it is a secure private site.

www.tpu-alliance.com (http://www.tpu-alliance.com)

The free energy concept has its hard workers. It has those with effects and unexplainable anomalies. Unfortunately some view it as a vehicle to separate willing to believe individuals from their cash in one manner or another.

For instance take Hutchison. He is not a scammer, though I disagree with about every other word the man says when he described his effects.  It is obvious he is HONEST, though misguided, and forced to explain that which he did not have any answers to, so he made up a bunch of poop.

Does he have a coil? Possibly... I repeat POSSIBLY.

He was claiming here to have a 'powerful coil' made and ready to send to hartiberlin, yet at his new forum he wants the volunteers to help him, so that he can have a 'working KW unit in a few weeks'.....

He claimed his initial coil was putting out over a kilowatt... remember? It does tend to put every word out of his mouth in doubt. Not because of some 'persecution' which has happened to others, just not to him. Minor criticism like came from hartiberlin does not count as 'persecution'.

I am not saying 'do not work on the coil here at OU.com, and thoroughly check out the concept', I AM saying to all don't join in his scheme, get sucked into his MONETARY scam.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 21, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
@all

Agentgates has left , and won't come back here , all i can say is i made a joule thief from his coil , and for the first time ever a joule thief lit a filament bulb from the secondary , it also runs a 12 volt motor on the secondary.

So i would not be so quick in judging ,

To Marco , the more i look at you the more i see a disinfo agent , you are responsible for the SM , up to last year you still gave the impression to to know all there was about it , now we have something to work on that is clear , but no now SM is a scam , and please don't follow agentgates , why ?

Is there really a tpu by SM probably not since SM is a crook , regard less ,

There is something to this coil .

So before in the past you told everyone how to do it , now you say he is scam , and please don't waist time on the design of agentgate .

Marco , i never tough you add anything , and i was right...

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 21, 2010, 09:41:11 PM
Paul
I have to say I never EVER read anything posted by Tony that smelled Like a guy looking for a Sucker to throw money at him.

Born and raised in NYC Heavy Construction and Demolition business, I know what those guys look like and sound like.[ every Race, creed, nationality, and religion]

Nobody has a crowbar in my pocket prying out my wallet.

Monetary scam is a big accusation to make.

Time to keep moving forward and not get mired in what might be no more than than an inability to communicate intent.

24 hrs at a new location [the above link you posted] and you have this guy up on the cross lighting a fire under him.

A few weeks to show results[what you posted above]!!
And you want to burn him??

Lindsay has been doing this for how long??

Forever? ? ? ? ? ?
He is " begging" folks to replicate this""" BEGGING !!!"""

Paul put out your torch.

We need to see whats Up

A few weeks isn't going to kill anyone .


Chet

No stone left unturned!!

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 09:58:30 PM
@all

Agentgates has left , and won't come back here , all i can say is i made a joule thief from his coil , and for the first time ever a joule thief lit a filament bulb from the secondary , it also runs a 12 volt motor on the secondary.

So i would not be so quick in judging ,

To Marco , the more i look at you the more i see a disinfo agent , you are responsible for the SM , up to last year you still gave the impression to to know all there was about it , now we have something to work on that is clear , but no now SM is a scam , and please don't follow agentgates , why ?

Is there really a tpu by SM probably not since SM is a crook , regard less ,

There is something to this coil .

So before in the past you told everyone how to do it , now you say he is scam , and please don't waist time on the design of agentgate .

Marco , i never tough you add anything , and i was right...

Mark

Mark, I do not doubt agent gates has a working design.

Bear with me for just a second, keeping an open mind.

An idea cannot be patented. Recipies or formulas cannot be patented. Only devices or mechanical processes can be patented.

'Intellectual rights' to either a machine or process are only a term unless a machine is patented.

A patented idea is not open source, by its very definition.

Open source is free, requiring NO funds at all to accomplish. You give it to anyone whom is interested, that is open source.

He initially toasted any concept of proprietary intellectual rights to the idea by posting his basic design on a public forum. When asked to provide proof >>>HE HAD ALREADY PROMISED<<<, he ran.

At his new group, he claimed it was due to persecution.

WHAT persecution??? (Asking someone to keep their own promise is somehow persecution mow?)

Here is a scenario to consider:

He ran precisely because he did discover something, doesn't really know how it works, and therefore cannot patent it, and wants others to help him explain it so that he CAN patent the idea, retain intellectual rights, and market the device or the process, or both.

Amazingly enough, it blocks any competition, including replications by those whom he has conned into helping him. LEGALLY they are volunteers, to which he owes no obligation, as they agreed to join AS volunteers.

They cannot SHARE the information with others, as they do not own intellectual rights to the machine and would therefore be in breach of contract, patent infringement, and open to legal action.

Little ole' Tony has EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to both the machine, and the process.

What does it mean?

Hummingbird motor anyone???

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 10:00:21 PM
Paul
I have to say I never EVER read anything posted by Tony that smelled Like a guy looking for a Sucker to throw money at him.

Born and raised in NYC Heavy Construction business I know what those guys look like and sound like.[ every Race, creed, nationality, and religion]

Nobody has a crowbar in my pocket prying out my wallet.

Monetary scam is a big accusation to make.

Time to keep moving forward and not get mired in what might be no more than than an inability to communicate intent.

24 hrs at a new location [the above link you posted] and you have this guy up on the cross lighting a fire under him.

A few weeks to show results[what you posted above]!!
And you want to burn him??

Lindsay has been doing this for how long??

Forever? ? ? ? ? ?
He is " begging" folks to replicate this""" BEGGING !!!"""

Paul put out your torch.

We need to see whats Up

A few weeks isn't going to kill anyone .


Chet

No stone left unturned!!

I never said he wanted YOUR money.... yet...

He wants your time, equipment, experience, and labor.

The money comes from the marketing.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 10:04:42 PM
By the way, I am lighting a torch....

A REALLY HUGE TORCH!!!

The only thing afraid of light is darkness.

Paul
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 21, 2010, 10:27:46 PM
@paul

Give me a break , patent and time , yes he is most likely responsible for asking time , but then why dose anyone post here ? :-\

And yes i believe there is a second group of people , and the info will be given in a public forum , just not here  :-\

And to tell the truth , i would have done the same ...

The guys is new here , he doesn't need to understand or bare the type of circus that the tpu treads are , where speculation is ruling and no work is done , plus those that at the time seemed to know everything  ??? .

Tell me that someone serious and having something to give out , would give it to clowns so it would get lost , or misportrayed . He would then be the one wasting time .

If you are not one to like losing time , then i would suggest reevaluating your hobbies , and stop posting...

The guy came in to work , and that is something impossible then it is mentioned TPU in the title , there was no mention of it at first .At that time things where going great , everyone was positive helpful and working , then Stephan changed the name , no mention of the tpu , still no problem , he changed it again this time TPU was there , within 48 hours the tread was dead , sad be true , i saw it happening , and i give it to you strait .

You can't verify a OU claim In under a 6 month of time , it is impossible . ::)

So stop being so negative , because people like you are causing good people to go away , and not show there hard work , to people having no respect.

Mark

Most that will read this usually only do TPU tread , to those yes go do something else , you may learn what team work is all about.
 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 21, 2010, 10:38:32 PM
Paul
Very serious Question?

                Patent? ? ?

Any body thinks they would sell ONE just ONE TPU  SPU  WPU[wood]

UUU   U would have to be NUTS

End of story.

NEVER HAPPEN!!             EVER !!

I don't care if you had patents knee deep
And liars [lawyers] lined up around the block
You ain't selling it PERIOD,just the way it has always been
going back to Tesla and before.

This is for us to change the world one application at a time
Maybe in Haiti to run some hospital to sterilize water
to make water [drywell]
Who knows?

Not to sell.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 21, 2010, 10:53:44 PM
Patent, probably already been done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neiOQgYw_Qc

Start in this vid at 3:14.  Look like Tony's setup?  Its most probable that a lot of good circuits are owned by the Govt. Whether stolen from tesla, Hj, Stan Meyers, etc.  thereby shutting anyone down along the way saying that they own it.  But then the question should be, why are we not using this tech, why are you hiding it? They will have their reasons. And they would say it is a national security issue, etc.
Now, imagine open source. Sure its out there. But someone will want to put money into making them, and selling them. And they could, due to not everyone is able to build it.  Not everyone is a high tech caveman like me.  =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 21, 2010, 11:10:35 PM
Mags
Quote;

Not everyone is a high tech caveman like me.  =]
---------------------
There are some very fast learners out here!!.
BTW
from 3.14 on there are some very sexy coils
Who is Tony Roon ??
His name was under I schematic.

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: turbo on January 21, 2010, 11:13:31 PM

Marco , i never tough you add anything , and i was right...

Mark

And this my friend, is because there simply isn't any thing to add......
No worries, i won't bother you again...

Marco.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: HopeForHumanity on January 21, 2010, 11:26:22 PM
On the "intellectual property rights" thing. Paul, you are confused. To hint at what your confused about, think back to when tesla modified edison's light bulb. I think you are being too freaked out over such an easy thing to figure out. And i'm sure you should look into how patents and property rights work a little bit more before you jump off the monopoly scam bridge.  ::)
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: HopeForHumanity on January 21, 2010, 11:27:58 PM
And this my friend, is because there simply isn't any thing to add......
No worries, i won't bother you again...

Marco.

And to marco, the frustrated teenage girl, please stop assuming everything. Your arrogance blinds you... And I say that as a proud keyboard hero!  :D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 21, 2010, 11:41:56 PM
@paul

Give me a break , patent and time , yes he is most likely responsible for asking time , but then why dose anyone post here ? :-\

And yes i believe there is a second group of people , and the info will be given in a public forum , just not here  :-\

And to tell the truth , i would have done the same ...

The guys is new here , he doesn't need to understand or bare the type of circus that the tpu treads are , where speculation is ruling and no work is done , plus those that at the time seemed to know everything  ??? .

Tell me that someone serious and having something to give out , would give it to clowns so it would get lost , or misportrayed . He would then be the one wasting time .

If you are not one to like losing time , then i would suggest reevaluating your hobbies , and stop posting...

The guy came in to work , and that is something impossible then it is mentioned TPU in the title , there was no mention of it at first .At that time things where going great , everyone was positive helpful and working , then Stephan changed the name , no mention of the tpu , still no problem , he changed it again this time TPU was there , within 48 hours the tread was dead , sad be true , i saw it happening , and i give it to you strait .

You can't verify a OU claim In under a 6 month of time , it is impossible . ::)

So stop being so negative , because people like you are causing good people to go away , and not show there hard work , to people having no respect.

Mark

Most that will read this usually only do TPU tread , to those yes go do something else , you may learn what team work is all about.

Some good questions Mk1!

The only problem is that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander, so to speak. The same questions apply equally to all.

Some are here as to them it is a hobby.

Some are here as they are so insecure and threatened in their knowledge that they feel the need to attack the concept.

Some are here as they enjoy the research.

Some are here socially as they feel like they are part of a like minded  group and gain some sense of false importance.

Some are here out of boredom to just chat and kill time.

Some are here because they actually desire to solve the problem. (This is where I come in for instance.)

Some are here to make sure the technology is discredited.

Some are here to scam people, for various reasons. (Money being just one of them. Fame another. Infamy yet a third.)

Others are here because they are simply interested.

Why are YOU here, if you have no desire to actually be serious, develop, and share freely?

'Someone might laugh at me' is the weakest excuse ever sold.

I know I have every intention of sharing what I discover, FREELY, and FOR FREE.... No strings attached. I share data and conclusions, leaving myself wide open to criticism willingly, knowing full well that some jackasses will come in and try their best to belittle me. Why not? I haven't invested several grand of my own personal money in this to waste time, nor am I out for profit. As mag pointed out....

I can make and sell working devices later, even if the information is out there for everyone for free. People are generally lazy, and will willingly pay a reasonable price to have stuff built for them instead of make it themselves. 

I do believe firmly though that ANY man is only as good as his word.

I also believe nothing is as worthless as internet fame on a forum or in a chat room. I call such 'intellectual masturbation', making yourself feel important when you are in fact doing little or nothing for such frame.

That is what 'I believe'... my 'purpose', 'reason for being here in this forum', my 'goal'.... and I could care less whom approves or doesn't. I have to live with the decisions I make and their affects upon my conscience, and they don't.


I have been open with you.... SO....... just why are YOU here?

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 22, 2010, 12:02:09 AM


I have been open with you.... SO....... just why are YOU here?

Paul Andrulis

I believe i am having fun (actually when we could have some), and working on this coil design i have and posted everything i did so far (with pictures).

I tool his idea and made it my own , instead of making a 30 volt design , i made one gate joule thief , at 1.5 volts , the first joule thief to light a filament bulb from the secondary , First ever in the world  ???.

It also run a 12 v dc motor ...

So i am having to most fun anyone here seem to have , there is a part most of you are missing , even when you have the best made plan , and everything is calculated , when you get to building there is always a moment where you realize , you forgot to plan something out . Building is a act of creation , where some randomness will have to be inserted in the design , some people have the ability to surpass those obstacle , and others will get frustrated and start bitching .

I made joule thief out of everything (And this one most efficient) , so making another was not a issue , so go back a few pages , to see my work .



Mark

And now my turn ! Tell me just why are YOU here !

I know , discrediting people boost your EGO . You picked on the wrong one , jerk ...


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on January 22, 2010, 12:09:43 AM
@ PaulDude000 Said:

1.  Some are here as to them it is a hobby.

2.  Some are here as they are so insecure and threatened in their knowledge that they feel the need to attack the concept.

3.  Some are here as they enjoy the research.

4.  Some are here socially as they feel like they are part of a like minded  group and gain some sense of false importance.

5.  Some are here out of boredom to just chat and kill time.

6.  Some are here because they actually desire to solve the problem. (This is where I come in for instance.)

7.  Some are here to make sure the technology is discredited.

8.  Some are here to scam people, for various reasons. (Money being just one of them. Fame another. Infamy yet a third.)

9.  Others are here because they are simply interested.

===================================================

SUPER SUMMARY LIST.  I especially agree with #7.  I keep seeing too many trying to discredit.  Are they employed by Big Oil???

Thanks Paul.

.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 22, 2010, 12:14:48 AM
I believe i am having fun (actually when we could have some), and working on this coil design i have and posted everything i did so far (with pictures).

I tool his idea and made it my own , instead of making a 30 volt design , i made one gate joule thief , at 1.5 volts , the first joule thief to light a filament bulb from the secondary , First ever in the world  ???.

It also run a 12 v dc motor ...

So i am having to most fun anyone here seem to have , there is a part most of you are missing , even when you have the best made plan , and everything is calculated , when you get to building there is always a moment where you realize , you forgot to plan something out . Building is a act of creation , where some randomness will have to be inserted in the design , some people have the ability to surpass those obstacle , and others will get frustrated and start bitching .

I made joule thief out of everything (And this one most efficient) , so making another was not a issue , so go back a few pages , to see my work .



Mark

And now my turn ! Tell me just why are YOU here !

I know , discrediting people boost your EGO . You picked on the wrong one , jerk ...


You have a short memory.

I have been BACKING agentgates (Tony) up until this point. He discredited HIMSELF.

Egos are a waste of time.

If you made a device that show promise then great! Kewl! Awesome! I am glad you then are serious about your efforts!

I am here to replicate and invent, as I stated previously.

The warnings about Tony that I have posted is to HELP fellow members.

If you wish to take my warnings about him personally..... well that is both your business and your choice.

As far as why I am not defending Tony anymore, and publishing open warnings about him? I caught him lying red handed, with the intent both clear and obvious. That is why.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: plengo on January 22, 2010, 12:19:57 AM
hey my name has been printed. I am impressed. :)

I hear your point pauldude000. It is never too late to hear other's experiences. I really appreciate your opinion.

I hope I can learn how this thing works. Hopefully I will make many units, get them to my family and friends, build some for others for some monetary benefit too, after all my time and parts costs lots of money.

I will also make sure from my part that technologies like this does not get lost but shared with all so ALL can build for themselfs.

I truly believe it is ok to sell units you make with your hands since your hands are working which should be paid for. NO ONE WORKS for free.

I hope, I only hope Agentgates is for real.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 22, 2010, 12:23:46 AM

You have a short memory.



Yes , but its temporary ... ;D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 22, 2010, 12:38:19 AM
@Fatbird

I hear ya bud.

The bad thing about discreditation is I have seen personally many approaches used here.

1. Attack the person
2. Attack the tech
3. Give en explanation so ludicrous no reputable scientists would touch it.

I can understand the concern some people would have about me dissing tony, due to #1. They are going to have to make up their own minds, as always.

Some that do these are wannabe 'debunkers', whom think themselves prodigal son's of science, as if science needs their defense.

Some are actual government agents, as truly FREE energy is a national security concern threatening stability in their minds.

Big Oil may, or may not even care. (They have enough bucks to profit no matter what. However, I could see inter-corporational fighting causing some of it. IE GE may be owned by X corp whom doesn't care, but GE most definitely WOULD care. They would even be able out how to make a profit from it... I just don't know... possibly? )

I do know that energy is a serious means of both power, control, and profit. Threaten these and human nature takes over.

Paul
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on January 22, 2010, 12:40:18 AM
Yes , but its temporary ... ;D

 Now that is funny ;D

Paul
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on January 22, 2010, 02:41:57 AM
@AG can only blame himself for leaving.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mannix on January 22, 2010, 05:12:00 AM
Any body who builds one of these, exactly as tony said , wether  they see the weird pulse or not can assist in some way to some end.
ANYBODY else is simply unqualified, so just ignore the bloody thing , and stfu uh?

You guys who have had a go, thanks. Some are nothing like tony's but at the very least you are trying.
some are correct but the pulse is not apparent to them.

I have found that a fast cro was  important for me to see the initial sfuff.

Im posting nothing else here untill a few can get to first base..they will need some fortitude to bother wth those who say heaps and do nothing but say more.
 
Paul..you said you would build one. Was that useful information?

bye bye


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: otto on January 22, 2010, 12:05:12 PM
@ramset

you said "no stone unturned"?

I found 1 that was not seen and turned.

Otto
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 22, 2010, 12:34:34 PM
Otto
Quote:

I found 1 that was not seen and turned
---------------------------------------
Well Otto You deserve to find an unturned stone!!

One that has a reward,you have looked under many stones!! [Hard Work]

God knows this quest can drive men Mad.

Or close [poor Marco!!]
[Doctor says he'll be fine, Has to stay away from Coils for a while!!]

@Lindsay
Thanks
yes Paul said he would!![build it ,[Not a big job]]

Chet

No stone left unturned!



Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 23, 2010, 04:05:09 AM
@all

Here is a test i performed , and may give some hints to why there is a toroid in the middle of the TPU, feed back to source , maybe , see ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glg8ZWntnAo
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 23, 2010, 04:15:05 AM
Mark
Thank you for the movie.
I have no sound.

What do you think is the reason for the Toroids effects?

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 23, 2010, 04:25:19 AM
@ramset

The toroid i am holding is made 1000 plus turns of 30 gauge mag wire .

The led is connected to it trough a diode bridge , first you can see where the field is located in and around the TP.

Second , any circuit located in the center of the toroid acts like a receiver.

It is pretty hard to explain , i discovered this when working on a dual jt on a single toroid design .

What i have learned is that the second jt circuit on a shared toroid dosen't need to be connected to the battery , you could insert a cap instead , the collector and base coil from the second jt feeding it self . Since the primary acted like a secondary and feeding it self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glg8ZWntnAo


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 23, 2010, 04:31:37 AM
Mark
Thank you
I will watch again keeping your explanation in mind.
Quote;
feeding it self.

Do you feel some part is grabbing power from
a source other than the battery /power supply?

Chet
PS
1000 turns plus!!!
OUCH!!
It is much brighter inside the coil?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 23, 2010, 04:40:16 AM
@ramset

It means basically that any type of circuit using a toroid capable of coupling with the outer core will run of the main , a low voltage circuit could run in closed circuit.

The circuit could be a low voltage joule thief charging a cap to feed the source .

So the circuit placed in the center either runs for free , or lower amps needed , or be used to recharged source.

I have monitored over 20 volts out of the coil.

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 23, 2010, 04:48:13 AM
Mark
Have you seen this behavior before with that little beauty .[extra fine coil
can't believe 1000 turns[I do ]]

Chet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 23, 2010, 04:55:56 AM
Mark
Have you seen this behavior before with that little beauty .[extra fine coil
can't believe 1000 turns[I do ]]

Chet

I tough about using it yesterday , to see if i could some how learn about the Gate new coil symmetry , so it is still pretty new , the hotest spot is in the middle , edge top and bottom , and the edges .

SO over all a nice tool , and a fun toy. 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on January 23, 2010, 10:06:39 AM
Hi Mk1,

thanks for your video.

I am working with coils which are wound in a similar way as the one in your video. I call them 'vortex coils' others call them '360° Rodin coils'. I am powering the primary/ies with a square wave generator.
http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325&flv=1&bereich=&marke=

I presume that in your video you power your primary with a resonant oscillator. Can you point me to a circuit diagram of the oscillator you use?

To clarify: I don't want to power the 'primary vortex coil' from a joule thief. I want to power it straight from an oscillator. Is this what you have done in the video? If so, please point me to a circuit diagram.

note: I am not an electronics expert (in spite of having bought a scope a while ago).
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: EMdevices on January 23, 2010, 09:36:06 PM
The type of coupling Mark uses, if I understand his coils correctly, is not the traditional magnetic coupling/induction.  Instead, this is better understood by looking at the magnetic vector potential fields, denoted as 'A' in most literature. 

This A potential field around a toroid resembles the magnetic field around a loop, where the loop is the toroid.  Just another way of looking at EM fields.

EM
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 25, 2010, 12:44:49 PM
@oscar

Sorry i am still using the jt for now , but soon will start testing mosfet , maybe on a small one at first 2n7000.

Some more testing do , with a small version of the gate coil.

http://www.youtube.com/user/abramrk1#p/a/u/0/OyiY-N1Ha5A


EM , A field sounds about right.

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 25, 2010, 01:49:33 PM
Mark
Thanks for the movie!

Seems like you enjoy playing in those fields :]

Its is good to Know you have j t experience.

Seems like a good baseline to measure progress.

Looking forward to your other findings

thanks for sharing

Chet

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 26, 2010, 01:46:20 AM
@all

Some of my friend started replicating , pvc pipe seems to not work at 1.5 volts. And to me this is a no go. Not good enough at 1.5 is still not good enough at 9v...

I would also not use it on any agent gates replication.

Cardboard tube , are great and light , most of them you get for free ...

I have posted more details in the jule thief tread. if you can ignore IST.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on January 26, 2010, 03:33:38 AM
Mk1  Would you say that having the inner primary and the outer primary, both on the outside of a pvc tube using pins around the top and bottom, should be ok then?  Or do you think the plastic itself is causing an issue?

This was a question of mine all along. From what you are stating, the inner primary is separated from the outer by the thickness of the pvc tube more than a cardboard tube. So maybe there is an even greater advantage by eliminating that thin space for the cardboard tube, and having the primaries wrapped just to the outside of a pvc tube.

Maybe  =]

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 26, 2010, 03:38:14 AM
I bought the sewer pvc which is at least 1/2 as thick as the schedule 40 that I have seen here. Do you think it's a thickness thing or a material thing?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 26, 2010, 03:42:59 AM
@all

Many test would need to be done before knowing for sure , but i have seen my share to coil on pvc not doing much , so maybe test on cardboard and plastic type , thickness maybe or deflective surface.

I am staying clear of those .

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 26, 2010, 04:34:59 AM
Very good point fellows
Card board was what Tony specified??

Chet

Actually Card board is all Tony ever uses in this thread !
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PARAV on January 26, 2010, 08:30:28 PM
Very good point fellows
A was what Tony specified??

Chet

Actually Card board is all Tony ever uses in this thread !

Mark , Chet and all.

I agree with not using PVC pipe as there are numerous mention of it in some of my Ham radio -home brew antenna articles (winding coils for antennas) where they state that PVC has many contaminents in them - mostly carbon etc. so don't use them.

I also found a source of heavy cardboard type tubes at Home Depot--used for pouring cement down and around fenceposts and deck footings and such. The smallest dia . I saw was 5.5 inches and they progressively get larger to about 20 or 24 inches or so, trouble is they come in 6 to 8 foot long pieces --enough to make coils for everyone in the neighbor hood. Anyway I'll grab some of that 5.5 inch stuff and have a go at it as I think Mark is really on to something here. Keep up the good work Mark
PAR
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on January 26, 2010, 08:54:00 PM
PAR
Thanks
It is good to use something passive [no carbon etc .surprises]

Going to check a local fabric supplier for empty cardboard rolls/tubes
Seems like we should be able to get these free somewhere?
I hope to stick as close as possible to Tony's original post.

Chet

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: PARAV on January 26, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
Mark and all,

I just obtained this 5.5 inch cement pouring tube for fence posts.

Are we still using that formula for the length of the tube versus the dia  --
L=(dia x pi)/6 ??

Most of the videos and or shots , I see, show the length  almost the same as the diameter.
So with 5.5 inches with that formula , I get 2.878 inches high.

Have I missed something??

PAR
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 26, 2010, 11:25:57 PM
A free source of cardboard tube is your nearest carpet shop.
Carpet role tubes are thrown away on regular basis!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 27, 2010, 01:39:18 AM
Mark , Chet and all.

I agree with not using PVC pipe as there are numerous mention of it in some of my Ham radio -home brew antenna articles (winding coils for antennas) where they state that PVC has many contaminents in them - mostly carbon etc. so don't use them.

I also found a source of heavy cardboard type tubes at Home Depot--used for pouring cement down and around fenceposts and deck footings and such. The smallest dia . I saw was 5.5 inches and they progressively get larger to about 20 or 24 inches or so, trouble is they come in 6 to 8 foot long pieces --enough to make coils for everyone in the neighbor hood. Anyway I'll grab some of that 5.5 inch stuff and have a go at it as I think Mark is really on to something here. Keep up the good work Mark
PAR

Thanks for the confirmation , i will try to keep it up  :D
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 27, 2010, 09:21:43 PM
Mk1 you should join this

http://www.overunityresearch.com

lots of good people here!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 28, 2010, 12:06:05 AM
Mk1 you should join this

http://www.overunityresearch.com

lots of good people here!

Humm , i don't know , i don't think those guys like me much , and me i think they are no fun , if you know the result before hand , why would you build and test anything.

But i do drop it there from time to time , but most of it is borrowed content from here .

But thanks for the invitation .

Mark 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: bullsnbears1 on January 29, 2010, 05:47:58 PM
Sorry O.T. but does anyone know why images on posts cover up the text for me on this site? Again sorry for the O.T.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Thaelin on January 30, 2010, 07:01:58 PM
   I get the same problem on some posts. Pics cover up the messages so cant read.
Stephan needs to address this problem.

thay
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 31, 2010, 01:49:46 PM
@MK1

So I got around to making a coil this weekend.  It is thrown together with salvaged wire. This is different because I'm using the biggo ferrite cores.  The secondary's (12 turns=6X2) are underneath the primaries because of other tests I have been working on with inductive coupling. I have hooked it up JT style and at one point was getting about 13v out of it.  Now I get 2.3 or 2.5vac.  Oh I forgot to mention that the only place I'm getting voltage is off the the same Primaries that the BC are connected to.  The LED will only light one way so if I turn it around and hook it up to the same wires it will not light.  It also humms like a typical JT.   Anyway I though I would share this...well...failure.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 31, 2010, 02:02:50 PM
@stprue

You really should try paper tube , this coil is something different the the regular transformer .

Keep the good work !

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 31, 2010, 02:03:43 PM
@stprue

You really should try paper tube , this coil is something different then the regular transformer .

Keep the good work !

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 31, 2010, 02:11:16 PM
I lucked out and found a 3'' dia cardboard!  I will make one today!  Does yours ring like a JT?  Also do you think the 3'' dia is too small?  any suggestion on winding it?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 31, 2010, 02:21:40 PM
@Mk1

I forgot to ask you but did you get your micro tpu up and running?  I have been looking to make one of these!
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 31, 2010, 02:49:19 PM
@stprue

Yes , the micro is working , but it doesn't really have enough room for the secondary .

I get about 9 volts form the outside secondary on 4 1/2 turns , it lights 24 led in parallel easy , i have not tried filament on it yet.
 
I also tried one secondary on the inside i got 12 volts for 3 turns.

My next one will be on a bigger tube , they work better over all .

The diameter 3 inch is good .

I am still working on the micro , but would not recommend building it just yet .

It still need to be further tested , i will send the info a.s.a.p.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on January 31, 2010, 02:51:08 PM
@stprue

Yes , the micro is working , but it doesn't really have enough room for the secondary .

I get about 9 volts form the outside secondary on 4 1/2 turns , it lights 24 led in parallel easy , i have not tried filament on it yet.
 
I also tried one secondary on the inside i got 12 volts for 3 turns.

My next one will be on a bigger tube , they work better over all .

The diameter 3 inch is good .

I am still working on the micro , but would not recommend building it just yet .

It still need to be further tested , i will send the info a.s.a.p.

Ring nope dead silent .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: stprue on January 31, 2010, 03:47:24 PM
Sounds good Mark!

Thanks...Stew
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: giantkiller on February 01, 2010, 09:35:51 PM
The cardboard is an air form. It lets the most energy ring in space instead of sumped inside a captive media. Like the ECD. Sumped equals losses if your view is correct. But in reality the same energy is somewhere else just not in the place we want where it can do the most good.
In other words: Inside metal is a bad place. No electrical current or magnetic current but air current/flux lines. The lines appear in 2 different ways, flux in the metal or flux in the air. If you ring the metal flux the metal sings. If you ring the air flux the planet sings because the air flux is coupled with the earth flux and atomic flux. This gives us 2 tuning forks instead of one.
The flux lines are actually standing waves of electron polarity. Which denotes a frequency. Put iron filings on a paper and expose them to a magnetic to expose the flux lines. Measure the distance between them at their furthest distance, usually the middle. That will give you the base or a harmonic distance of the frequency wave.
The strange wavehill hump points to the compwave. The pancake uses this as transmission media.

One more thought like this and I qualify for planetary expulsion.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: supersam on February 04, 2010, 09:43:59 AM
hey gk,

long time no see.  i think you have some nice points. 

hell what the f***try some cardboard, the pvc has problems!

lol
sam
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on February 04, 2010, 01:06:30 PM
The cardboard is an air form. It lets the most energy ring in space instead of sumped inside a captive media. Like the ECD. Sumped equals losses if your view is correct. But in reality the same energy is somewhere else just not in the place we want where it can do the most good.
In other words: Inside metal is a bad place. No electrical current or magnetic current but air current/flux lines. The lines appear in 2 different ways, flux in the metal or flux in the air. If you ring the metal flux the metal sings. If you ring the air flux the planet sings because the air flux is coupled with the earth flux and atomic flux. This gives us 2 tuning forks instead of one.
The flux lines are actually standing waves of electron polarity. Which denotes a frequency. Put iron filings on a paper and expose them to a magnetic to expose the flux lines. Measure the distance between them at their furthest distance, usually the middle. That will give you the base or a harmonic distance of the frequency wave.
The strange wavehill hump points to the compwave. The pancake uses this as transmission media.

One more thought like this and I qualify for planetary expulsion.

I hope this information proves useful. A few years back I was designing a Bluetooth device. At the time of manufacture I was told by the plastics manufacturer who was designing the housing that they must select a kind of plastic that does not contain carbon because it inhibit the propogation of RF. So, you don't know what is the composition of the plastic drain pipe that you may have access to. It is out of my expertize but surely cardboard contains carbon also but it may be a different format or density.

The other point that I hope you did not miss, we are talking RF and not magnetic/inductive coupling.

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: forest on February 04, 2010, 08:56:17 PM
carbon is a shield for RF ? that would be great info but I doubt about it
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: allcanadian on February 05, 2010, 12:20:35 AM
@Forest
Quote:
"carbon is a shield for RF ? that would be great info but I doubt about it"
I have found it's often all the little things that matter, for instance carbon is in the same catagory as Pyrolytic Carbon which is also related to the metal Bismuth, both being the most diamagnetic materials we know of. That is they will weakly repel all magnetic fields regardless of the polarity of the field which makes the diamagetic materials impolar relative to all polar magnetic fields. If we consider that RF is in fact EM radiation (electro-magnetic) then it would seem obvious that the diamagnetic crystaline structure of carbon must have effects on the magnetic component of RF which is EM radiation. Carbon is also conductive and conductors conduct and dissipate currents which also means the material is subject to induction and eddy current production as a boundary layer surface effect which dampens or transform EM energy. Carbon black is added to plastic to give it color but more important it protects the plastic from UV radiation (sunlight-- wide spectrum EM) which will degrade the plastic.
Regards
AC
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: supersam on February 05, 2010, 06:17:10 AM
@at all,
and carbon is in the air, also!  so where are we going with this.

up the smot ramp, or, replication and a self runner!

lol
sam







1
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on February 05, 2010, 06:41:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxF9REoyDws

Tried my original Agentgates coil on my timer setup

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on February 05, 2010, 06:43:41 PM
Also I think that the pvc is not causing problems other than spacing between inner and outer primaries. I have seen some tesla coils using pvc and they work pretty good.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on February 08, 2010, 05:42:20 AM
just stumbled across a video titled:
Rodin Coil / Earth Magnetic field synchronization
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgteaL33F0

Thought you might like it, too.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on February 08, 2010, 06:56:31 PM
Here is a Rodin Coil with a SPINNING Sphere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdgzU_84VMg&feature=related

.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on February 08, 2010, 07:16:09 PM
Here is a Rodin Coil with a SPINNING STEEL BALL!!!
It is a spherical neodymium magnet
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Schpankme on February 11, 2010, 08:44:26 PM
Many years ago while designing, manufacturing and marketing fishing lures; I learned the secret to catching fish!

You must first learn to catch the fisherman, before the fisherman can catch the fish.

Schpankme
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on February 13, 2010, 02:56:44 AM
@all

I made a new movie from my coil lighting Filament bulbs .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS935WyumjY
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on February 13, 2010, 03:23:23 AM
Very nice Mk
Any info on the bulbs, and what each is hooked up to?

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on February 13, 2010, 03:29:02 AM
Very nice Mk
Any info on the bulbs, and what each is hooked up to?

Mags

They are only 2 volts the one on the left is one the transistor and the one on the right is on the secondary only. THE DRIVING BATTERY IS 1.5 v

I gave a bit more info on the Jule thief tread.

Mark

But i can post everything anyone need here.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on February 15, 2010, 12:21:01 AM
@all

NEW MOVIE for my Slim Version 5 turn 16 layer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9BMTAlL0dU

Lighting leds on the satellite coil , and the 2 volt bulb on the secondary .

8 turn secondary about 10 v rectified dc .

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on February 15, 2010, 07:21:15 AM
Thanks for the video, MK1,

got a question, though:
in the vid you first connect the battery and then you fiddle/twist with a round kind of button at the right, which changes the brightness of the bulb.
What is that round thing/button?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on February 15, 2010, 07:24:10 AM
Thanks for the video, MK1,

got a question, though:
in the vid you first connect the battery and then you fiddle/twist with a round kind of button at the right, which changes the brightness of the bulb.
What is that round thing/button?


Its a 1k trim-potentiometer connected to the base of a 2n2222 transistor.

Mark
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Goat on February 15, 2010, 03:28:32 PM
@Mk1

Congratulations you seem to be making good progress !

Can you post the details of your new circuit, it seems you have changed a couple of things since your last circuit...

What size of cardboard cylinder are you using?  It seems a bit different than the roll of duct tape in size.

I see you mentioned in the JT thread the following:

5 turn 16 layer
8 turn secondary

I understand the 8 turn secondary but don't understand the 5 turn 16 layer.

Got a couple of clarifications about your current circuit if you don't mind:

1. What are the dimensions of the cardboard cylinder?
2. What size gauge are you using on the primary?
3. How many turns on primary 1?
4. Same amount of turns on primary 2.
5. 8 turn secondary, same gauge wire as primary?
6. 2N222 transistor.
7. 1K potentiometer.
8. What are the dimensions of the smaller cardboard cylinder that you use on the inside of the larger one to light the LEDs?
9. How many turns and what gauge are you using on the smaller cardboard cylinder?

10. Have you tried feeding back some of the rectified voltage from the secondary back to the battery to see if it would run by removing the battery once started?  That would make it a self runner  ;D

PS:  Seems kind of odd that this thread was red hot at first and that now that you seem to be making it work nobody is paying much attention, how odd  ???

Anyways, best of luck to you, I tip my hat to you sir :)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on February 21, 2010, 08:36:45 AM
@all

I just finish a new video showing my last JT construction , but also the bulb lighting from the battery the E-C connection and the 3 different secondaries .

The E-C on this one is really strong , but this design is flawed , with parallel layers the load is transparent but not on this one ...

Its a good one anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz4pN-LybGo

The best is still to come !

Mark 

@goat

I will start a new tread , and explain everything .
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: MasterPlaster on February 21, 2010, 03:33:12 PM
MK1
As I see from your video ( maybe I am seeing too much ) the bulb lights much brighter across EC than
if it was placed across the battery.

1- How bright would be the light in comparison if the battery was totally disconnected from the circuit?
2- What are the current draws from the battery with different placements of the light bulb?

Thanks
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on February 21, 2010, 04:00:17 PM
Its the fact that the output is higher in voltage to light the light bulb. There is plenty of amps from the battery to light the bulb but the voltage wont permit the amperage needed through the filament resistance as does the secondary, or even the bemf from the primary can light the bulb brighter than battery alone. But its not to say that the input is less than the output of the gates coil just because the bulb is brighter on the output than it is on the input voltage. For instance, When I pulse one of my big coils and capture the bemf from the coil, I can light a 12 filament on the bemf much brighter than the 5v running the circuit. My 5v is at 1.1A and my light bulb is at 10v .48A , my input is 5W and my output is 4.8W yet the output can run the bulb better.
Light bulbs are strange elements.Just the way the resistance gets higher as the heat builds, etc. The initial current is the hardest on the source and after the load is much easier.

Mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 08, 2010, 06:50:11 PM
@all

I made a new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiLcbTBewhw

Running the motor/generator , detail on the connections ...

I know i know but this coil shows me new stuff .

@Mag

I know you can get better results from your coil , by having fatter wire for secondary makes a huge difference , and adding a second coil to make it 2 phase .

Mark

Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Magluvin on March 08, 2010, 07:09:48 PM
Very cool Mk   5 stars   ;)

How do you feel about the conversion rate from in to out?
Anything exciting? ;D


mags
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 08, 2010, 07:21:28 PM
Very cool Mk   5 stars   ;)

How do you feel about the conversion rate from in to out?
Anything exciting? ;D


mags


Thanks!

Well the output never stops going up , some prototype show no load from the secondary at the transistor , i get around 67 volts on that one , the current is still a mystery to me on the output side anyway , on the input its around 160 mili , i get a glow from a 6 volts 250 mili bulb .

Now having the possibility to take juice from the transistor and the secondary opens new possibility .

Mark 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on March 09, 2010, 12:13:03 AM
Hi Mark,
so you say you have 160 Milliamps as the input current.
That would be around 160 MilliWatts, if the 1.2 Volt Battery
is about loaded like this it would probably only produce around 1 Volts.

Or do you use 2  x 1.2 Volts batteries in series for the JT circuit ?

If you get a 6 Volts 250 milliamps bulbs to glow pretty brightly,
that would mean around 1.5 Watts of output power from
160 MilliWatts of input power ?

Can you please verify this again ?

P.S. Did you play with other JT circuits before ?
Did you have lower outputs with other normal coils ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on March 09, 2010, 06:18:02 PM
Hi MK1,
I am in the process of building a joule thief with a Rodin style aircore coil similar to the one you show in your video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiLcbTBewhw

Thank you very much for making that video. Up till now i was hitting this kind of coils with a square wave generator.
Finally I understood, that a "self oscillating transistor" in joule thief style is the way to go.
In your video you wrote at 0:16  "On the first try I made it an X winding, the pickup coil gave me 0 Volts but still could light 24 leds in parallel"
Also, at 0:33 you wrote: "0 volts coil (X) At work!"
I got that same effect - lighting a LED on the collector coil with an immeasurable voltage - and obviously it is because this coil picks up some kind of AC.
Also a LED on such a collector coil lights both ways, weak in one way, yet much stronger when connected the right way round, no?
I scoped across a LED lit on such a collector coil. See the signal below.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gyulasun on March 09, 2010, 07:54:25 PM
Hi Oscar,

Many thanks for your answer here.
It is very good you attached the scope display picture. 
I think the LED is lit only in the peak pulse amplitudes (where your vertical time cursors cross the beheaded peak of the pulse) and if your zero line is in the center horizontal line, the beheaded peak amplitude is about 1.8V positive, this is what lights the LED (the LED limits the peak pulse at its forward voltage level).  (One vertical divison is 2 Volts, one horizontal divison is 5 usec.)
For the rest of the waveform the inductive ringing is seen as usual for an unloaded (but lossy) coil. 
The LED is ON for about 2 usec (the length of the horizontal beheaded pulse peak) from the full 15 usec pulse time.

Your observation on the reversed biased LED giving a weak light: you basically have an AC voltage between the collector and the negative line, however this is an assymetrical waveform, its positive peak is higher than its negative one, so whenever you connect the LED so that the negative peaks are the forward direction for it, it still lights but more dimly.

If you have an ordinary digital voltmeter, would you check what it shows in both its AC and DC ranges? Just for info, normally a 64-65 kHz pulse is a total failure for conventional 50-60Hz  DMMs.

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 10, 2010, 05:05:20 AM
@all

I started a new tread

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8878.msg231926

About the coil

Please come and join me .

Mark

@Oscar


Thank you , nice scope shot , was that from the transistor of the pickup coil ?


Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: oscar on March 11, 2010, 07:24:32 PM
If you have an ordinary digital voltmeter, would you check what it shows in both its AC and DC ranges? Just for info, normally a 64-65 kHz pulse is a total failure for conventional 50-60Hz  DMMs.
Hi gyulasun

I tried that and it is exactly the problem: my cheap DMM has two settings/ranges for AC: 200V and 600V, and it does not give a reading for the signal that lights the LED(s), due to the problem you describe (the meter is not build to pick up AC in that frequency range).

I also get no reading when set to DC.

But please note: there are amps there. This is why it will light LEDs in parallel but not in series - if I am not mistaken. Also note the "directionality"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PdxlD4xOck
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: gyulasun on March 11, 2010, 10:30:13 PM
...
But please note: there are amps there. This is why it will light LEDs in parallel but not in series - if I am not mistaken. Also note the "directionality"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PdxlD4xOck

Hi Oscar,

Thanks for the nice video, very good job.  No problem the cheap DMM, you have the best instrument: an oscilloscope!

On your comment above:  if you connect the LEDs in series, their forward voltages add up so that higher voltage amplitude is needed that is able to forward bias them and your induced voltage is lower than the added LED forward voltages.  This is why they are able to give light in parallel, your output peak AC voltage is already enough for it.
The 'directionality' is normal in pulse circuits because the source is directional: I mean for instance in a JT the switch chopes up a positive voltage with respect to the negative (gnd) if the transistor is an NPN type. This already constitutes every other polarity in induction, so in case you use a polarity dependent load (like a LED), no wonder its directionality.

Unless it is too early as yet, it would be useful to learn whether input power increases when you slip the coils together and the LEDS light, also a rough estimatimation on the out/in ratio but I really do not want to divert you from your own path.

Thanks again, 
Gyula
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 25, 2010, 03:59:40 AM
@all

I just made one NEW VIDEO , testing my last unit , the secondary are not yet installed on the second and third core , but it show interesting results and blow out of the water the AG theory ...

You ca see lighting a bulb on a core not connected to anything and leds at the same time one the primary...

Also at the end and attempt to show the sparks from the secondary lighting a 6 volt 250 mili bulb , circuit runs on a 1.25 aa battery.
 

http://www.youtube.com/user/abramrk1#p/a/u/0/myZrCurW0uE

More details http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8878.0

2x 2 volts 60 mili plus 1x 6 volts 250 mili
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 25, 2010, 11:07:11 PM
@all

In the video the the secondary lighting the bulb is not even active ...

It is only picking up the field form the other smaller and active ones ...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: hartiberlin on March 25, 2010, 11:21:12 PM
MK1,
well done !
Please could you try to see,
if you can get a lightbulb to light up between
a single wire connection from 2 coils.

So just connect the light with one pole
to the one coil and with the other end to the
other coil.
So each coil has only one end connected to the lightbulb.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 27, 2010, 07:14:13 AM
Hello all,

@MK1

nice coils, very nice video, not so nice results, sorry!! But nice work!

Just think about this:

- a wire or coil is pulsed


- PARTICLES ARE FIRED OUT IN ALL DIRECTIONS - DONT EVER FORGET THIS!!!!


- lets say that a wire releases 100 particles at 1" lenght - just to show you some numbers
- how many particles are released at a lenght of 5 ft.?? or even more??
- how many particles would be released if you would use a thin cable with a lot of fine wires inside? as the pulsed coil, of course
- how many particles would hit a horizontal collector made with a lampwire that is INSIDE each ring?

Otto

PS: sometimes its MAYBE usefull to read my posts.

Sorry for what ?

Ok so you suggest putting the collector/secondary/pickup coil inside the of the other coil ? Then yes i know ! And the wire is wrong ...

To me it looks like you spent to much time in only one area of this type of coil , i have found many other area worth investigating before going your way . I see many improvements i can make and you see one ? fine thanks.

I can do it by my self (and think freely ), i do appreciate help given , so if you have something to say , then do it in a proper fashion , in a helpful way...

I did read some of your stuff , good  but after a while quite boring reading failed attempts and too much people complicating stuff to sound more interesting , i did learn from all the previous failure there are thousands of pages of it ... I learned that the answer is not there , in life if you get satisfied by the answers other gives you then you don't live your life , to achieve your potential think by your self answer the question by yours self the road you will travel to get your understanding is the meaning of life it self.

Where you see randomness i see random order , please show your stuff i mean nothing with more then 1.2 volt AA power then will we will have a talk about results .

Ok Otto ...

This is not a lash back , its only a evaluation of the situation , thank anyway for the comment .

This can be done like it was done here at OU before and still go no ware or people can stand up and put there EGO in there back pocket and sit on it then really work together for once.


Mark
 

 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: forest on March 27, 2010, 07:03:12 PM
Hello all,

@MK1

nice coils, very nice video, not so nice results, sorry!! But nice work!

Just think about this:

- a wire or coil is pulsed


- PARTICLES ARE FIRED OUT IN ALL DIRECTIONS - DONT EVER FORGET THIS!!!!


- lets say that a wire releases 100 particles at 1" lenght - just to show you some numbers
- how many particles are released at a lenght of 5 ft.?? or even more??
- how many particles would be released if you would use a thin cable with a lot of fine wires inside? as the pulsed coil, of course
- how many particles would hit a horizontal collector made with a lampwire that is INSIDE each ring?

Otto

PS: sometimes its MAYBE usefull to read my posts.

Does it mean coils will deteriorate soon ?
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Mk1 on March 30, 2010, 02:42:26 PM
@all

That do look like the strange hums ?

Figure 16: An observed synchrotron emission from a cloud of electrons

                  

The observed synchrotron emission from a cloud of electrons in Figure 16 is the sum of the emission from many individual electrons, each with a different energy and each with velocity at a different orientation to the magnetic field. Hence each individual electron produces a contribution peaking at its own value of max. At each frequency, , the emission comes predominantly from the electrons which have max ≈ . Consequently, if the distribution of electron energies follows a power law then the observed synchrotron spectrum will also be a power law.

                  

How much radiation is emitted at frequency  depends predominantly on how many electrons have max ≈ . That is to say the shape of the summed spectrum in Figure 16 depends on the distribution of electron energies. Mathematically, this distribution can be described by saying N (E)dE is the number density (i.e. number per unit volume) of electrons with energies between E and E + dE. For many sources of non-thermal emission, a power-law distribution of electron energies seems to hold, i.e.

http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/file.php/3922/formats/S381_1_rss.xml
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 01:25:27 AM
To All here, I have been disheartened for awhile regarding this site, no offence to Stefan, but to scammers. And that is why I don't usually come here anymore.
To people who build and experiment, keep going, take abreak or space yourself so you don't burn yourself out, and giveup.
Still live your life, but inbetween find sometime to push your mind on possibilities, it may take years of experimenting until you hit it.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 09:54:27 AM
example i built this awhile ago, and then took a break, just recently got back into it, was going to try teslas patent on rotating magnetic field, then i saw this thread, and given me some more ideas.
I've attached some pics of what i've done so far, might give some inspiration to others here.

the small toroid with 2n3055 transistor actually does oscillate, sharp pulses, cct is in there:-small_td1.jpg, you can see where i got the idea from, so i will continue working on this, cause i still believe it is possible....
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 09:56:25 AM
continued
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 10:05:57 AM
explanation on some of the photos:-

-the coating on nylon rings was a mix of epoxy and ferrite powder
-nylon rings made from cutting board material, I made several in one go..
-built couple of oscillators, one is 555timer and the other small_td1.jpg, looking at building an astable cct as well using two fets...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 03:30:07 PM
Hi fellow experminters, I recall and can pretty much reproduce this effect, refer to the small_td1.jpg oscillator drawing and associated unit P1011001.JPG oscillator, using 9volt battery, and on the secondary I have a 12 miniature light bulb, the light bulbs intensity is very bright,

now without using the oscillator, and i connect the battery directly to the light bulb, it is only about half as bright.
I worked out with the scope that this oscillator was about 3khz, and you can here a slight hum.
it is very easy to build, take you prob about an hour to do, so what i would like someone to do, is say hey this is interesting, or it is quite normal....

Interestingly enough though the bulb was much brighter, I came across the cct by accident, when i was investigating tesla coils.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: e2matrix on June 23, 2010, 05:21:49 PM
Nice work mrd10.  It seems this thread has been ignored for quite a while since other newer threads have started on the TPU.  I'm very interested in the situation where you describe in the text in that last picture how the circuit destroyed itself.  What input power were you using?  Do you think this was a sign you have hit on the right combination of frequencies where a power surge may be seen?  Any other info related to that event? 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 06:11:56 PM
@e2matrix

no no I got that from this webpage while investigating tesla coils:-
http://tacashi.tripod.com/elctrncs/ssstc/ssstc.htm

same site but using 555timer instead:-
http://tacashi.tripod.com/elctrncs/555sstc/555sstc.htm, that's where i made the 555timer cct from

still further testing required once ive wound few more coils.
I used the 1 transistor cct, but on small toroid with interesting results, never got to point of being destroyed, maybe cause i was using 9volt battery rated at 200ma, thats why I wanted someone here to simply build it and tel me, yeh thats interesting or neigh, thats normal, I used miniature 12volt filament lamp as load...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: giantkiller on June 23, 2010, 06:13:44 PM
Yep, yep, yup!
Just change the output coil.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 06:24:11 PM
continued, i just used .3mm enameled copper wire, see the yellow tape, it says 6, which means 6 windings, that is the feedback coil, it doesnt have to be many windings, I made another small toroid with 10 segments instead of 3 as the ones shown, cause somewhere down the track i will hook 8 secondaries to bifilar twisted segments on larger tpu..
so you can see where im going with this........if you can visualize it...
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 06:34:43 PM
Hey giankiller, nice cct, thanks for that, hmm I could modify small toroid using your cct. but building yours and testing it first, cool
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: wattsup on June 23, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
@mrd10

Good work there. I will be very interested to see what type of coupling will occur with your epoxy/ferrite coated toroid.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: mrd10 on June 23, 2010, 06:53:04 PM
@wattsup

yeh me too, cause i just started again, i just allocate 3 to 4 hours aweek for this, so give me time, no rush on my part.
just to let you all know ill be absent for few weeks, so if it goes quite from me you know why.

it could work just as well without epoxy, but cause i made few nylon rings, i thought id coat some, and test that first.
any ideas we can share amongst each other might make all the difference.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: e2matrix on June 24, 2010, 06:45:34 AM
Yep, yep, yup!
Just change the output coil.

So stun guns have an internal spark gap before it goes to the final coil for the external (shocker pins)?  Change the output coil?  in the stun gun?  to the TPU control coil ?  one for each?  Lost... I know but I remember you said something about using stun gun circuits before regarding the TPU. 
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: giantkiller on June 24, 2010, 07:13:55 AM
In the SM video with the tv and drill SM brings to 2 output leads spaced apart are we see huge white sparks.
That was my enlightening moment.
There are many ways to achieve that internal spark gap producing shockwaves of great intensity without producing 'visible' sparks. When these hit a coil the impedance is infinite for a moment before the conduction starts. This is a huge clue and falls in line with electrostatic charge.

So stun guns have an internal spark gap before it goes to the final coil for the external (shocker pins)?  Change the output coil?  in the stun gun?  to the TPU control coil ?  one for each?  Lost... I know but I remember you said something about using stun gun circuits before regarding the TPU.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: TEKTRON on December 12, 2010, 10:48:16 AM
Hello all. hope im in the correct place. and i don' have time to read up,(i'm like 20 pgs. back) so I don't know where we are at. I just had a thought.... Gates coil design -VS- VHS tape. Why do we use a slanted tape head? silence....Because the info to reproduce TV wont fit on the tape. slanted head can record or play more info on more length of tape. 45 deg is waaaaay too steep. I don't have time or resources to experiment. lets try winding primary at 5 degrees or some other deg to complete at least one thread screw like fashion around the circumference of the coil. I think it would interact more with the secondarys. ..... something just came to mind...thinking of a bolt thread.. the finer the thread the more torque can be applied. because you have more "LEVERAGE"
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: FatBird on December 12, 2010, 01:23:48 PM
I know what you mean.  This thread just kind of died out.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: pauldude000 on December 13, 2010, 02:13:04 PM
I know what you mean.  This thread just kind of died out.

This thread died out because Agent Gates decided to start his own little forum for a personal mini think tank.

I was initially a member from the start for a grand total of about a week, until he posted his 'manifesto'. Cute little document that in essence gave him legal ownership of any and all ideas generated in the forum....

I can smell a scam a mile away.

He may well have had a limitedly working device, but he probably did not even know how or why it really worked. His open claims were initially for public disclosure and free sharing of information, but his little 'notice' described otherwise.

Reminded me far too much of Edison.

Not the brilliance mind you, but the 'business' side of the equation, where every one of Edison's employees were relieved of any new ideas while under his employ, as said ideas belonged to 'the company'.

Paul Andrulis
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: Sprocket on December 13, 2010, 02:34:29 PM
This thread died out because Agent Gates decided to start his own little forum for a personal mini think tank.

I was initially a member from the start for a grand total of about a week, until he posted his 'manifesto'. Cute little document that in essence gave him legal ownership of any and all ideas generated in the forum....

I can smell a scam a mile away.

He may well have had a limitedly working device, but he probably did not even know how or why it really worked. His open claims were initially for public disclosure and free sharing of information, but his little 'notice' described otherwise.

Reminded me far too much of Edison.

Not the brilliance mind you, but the 'business' side of the equation, where every one of Edison's employees were relieved of any new ideas while under his employ, as said ideas belonged to 'the company'.

Paul Andrulis

Thanks for the heads-up.  I always wondered why this promising thread died.  Greed seems to be the main reason we still have access to only cave-man technology, relatively speaking. 

Your last paragraph about Edison is generally the rule rather than the exception nowadays though - most companies insist that any invention made while a company's employee, automatically belong to said company.  At least that's my understanding.
Title: Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
Post by: ramset on February 22, 2011, 02:32:50 PM
Tony,
We havent heard from you in a while?.I miss you Buddy
Hope all is well!
Chetkremens@gmail.com