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Author Topic: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump  (Read 341267 times)

otto

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #345 on: January 11, 2010, 01:54:40 PM »
Hello all,

@broli

no I dont have a working TPU in this moment.

I have only coils that are only working when flipped up side down.

Otto

altair

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #346 on: January 11, 2010, 02:31:37 PM »
OK, I managed to find a workable solution to get the winding equally spaced on the core. I put 105 slots around the rim.
That gives a total of 35 turns for the primary, and 3 turns for each revolution around the core. There are no empty slots.
The wire ends exactly on the starting position, and there are 2 empty slots between each wire, for the second and the third primaries.
Each turn of the primary takes 36 slots, so when you have made one revolution (3 turns), your wire arrives 3 slots further than where you begun.

I would have liked to find a way to get 36 turns for each primary, but haven't yet.
If somebody can figure it out, let us know !

I'm attaching a wiring pattern as a DXF file for those who can use it. Sorry I can't create a graphics image with the programs I have here.  >:(

Edit:  No apparently I can't attach a DXF file here.  >:(

altair

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #347 on: January 11, 2010, 02:35:11 PM »
Forgot the pic...

Magluvin

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #348 on: January 11, 2010, 02:50:02 PM »
So I was correct in there needs to be an odd no of slots. Good work Altair
I have not done anything since my first coil, tied it, no go ,was told that the secondary was wrong. And with no others being able to get theirs to work, I am failing to believe at this point.  I am actually getting further from the computer than I have been since this started.
So it is all up to tonytone
Hopefully he gets his working

Mags

Mk1

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #349 on: January 11, 2010, 02:55:40 PM »
@all

I made one at exactly 45 degree , and got 18 turns before hitting the same location. So i made two phase of 18 turns.


Mannix

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #350 on: January 11, 2010, 02:58:47 PM »
@altair
zip the file first  a pain ah?

Tony has used 36 , you can see the extra step in his acrylic coil, some do 6 steps, some 7

I have rewound 2 more times and in reverse still not seeing run up.

30 volts 2.1 amps with 1hkz 50 % duty cycle the current is always the same , lots of heat in the coil but if i just run the coil with 2.1 amps by limiting the supply I get the same heat.
spikes for sure, just like any tpu config.
Tony has current much lower than I can achieve
the only difference is my .25 primary wire where his is .19

if i reduce the drive i do get rf pulses but this is gate oscillation it also happens with just dc level(no pulse)

Best to wait for more detailed info from Tony for me , he is getting something, of that im sure.
perhaps 2 stages or more  are vital

Does any body have dc out there? other than little  spikes

I,m surely doing something very wrong ..but what  arrggghhh!

Magluvin

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #351 on: January 11, 2010, 02:59:21 PM »
Possibly it can be explained by the same effect the John Bedini shows in this video at around the 4 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw

Hey Chasson
That makes sense but that would also be a particular freq to lock in that node, except this coil we are told can work at many freq. suggesting that spins on the winding have a flywheel effect and the spacing helps to maintain inertial movement due to other windings not slowing the spins down as we normally see in a standard coil. I even see that an iron core or other could slow the spinning. But thus far, I am only seeing it in my head, and it may not be so.

Mags

ramset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #352 on: January 11, 2010, 03:10:46 PM »
Wow
Look at all these men working together!!

Look at all the Talent that is here!!

Good stuff [actually there is no single word to describe this!!]

""That's"" worth the price of admission!!, no matter what.

Thanks Tony and @All

Chet
PS,
You MEN are making History.!!

Nick would Love this
Tesla that is.

agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #353 on: January 11, 2010, 03:18:22 PM »
@ Tony,
I am about to wind my first coil after finishing my drive electronics and Arduino software.

If you have an Arduino code cleaned up, please don't hold it back as mine is still in the baby phase. I screwd up the primary on my coil (damaged) so it will tak a few hours while I clean it up rewind it, glue it, etc.

When 45 degrees is used, the wires at the inner side of the tube have quite some distance from the tube itself.
Is that OK or should I stick the wires to the inner tube with tape or glue?

Yes that is fine. As for my theory that distance gives some (psec) acceleration inside the primary that you can't measure with ordinary devices but in this case it can be important. If it was closer to the secondary would cause the opposite that you'd identify as higher back EMF. Later we will look into this one as well.

So are you saying that these spinning fields have a flywheel effect, as in inertial effects that are not restricted due to proper spacing?

I say that you can't observe a strong inertia if you don't leave enough space between the secondary. If you decrease the spacing you will need to increase the current.

In normal cases electrons flow in a wire in a spinning manner. Since they have own mass and struggling to push each other apart they will spin. The spinning movement will force them to the edge of the wire due to the centrifugal force (spinning mass = centrigugal force).

Now if you get these wires close to each other you get the electrons slow down as there is electron flow in the next turn as well. Imagine two wheels spinning very fast in the same direction (e.g. clockwise) and you get them closer to each other. When they are close enough they can cause enough disturbance in the air to get each others slowing down. The worst thing you can do if you let them to touch each other as you will need to pump the power in to keep them spinning. To translate it to the wires case, there is some electromagnetic field around the wires. If you get them too close to each other the also spinning electromagnetic field between them will overlap each other and create a slight Lorentz force. This is bad, as you will see it on the scope as oscillation after your spike that is a LOSS.

Now, e.g. if you have 5 turns of secondary, you can think of them as wheels under each other and you start slapping them from the top to the bottom with your hand. Always from the top to the bottom. First you need "punch" them to get them spin up but later you will only need to preserve their speed. (remember: spinning electrons, mass, centrifugal force. Same deal.)

Tony maybe to help explain it more visual I made a small presentation so people don't get too confused.

That is amazing broli! Many thanks.

The fiddling is want I encountered too, and that started me thinking.
It may be that the asymmetry is required on purpose, but I have feeling that symmetry would be better.

@Tony: how did you solve this yourselve? Did you adjust the angle every time you reached an occupied angle?

I think this is what you mean. :)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG

I remember agentgates saying direction of wind doesn't matter, it just changs the polarity on the secondary terminal ends...can i get confirmation on that.

Yes it is true, this is what I said but some fellas from the southern hemisphere noticed something about it that can be important.

A possible reason that I didn't think through before:

If you pull out the plug from the bath and drain the water you can see a vortex spinning down the drain. This can be important as thin liquid particles are sensitive for inertia. Gravity is not a one way force straight down, but a fast spinning vortex and a sum of many ferromagnetic fields pointing down towards Earth's iron core. Since the iron core is spinning faster than the crust and has magnetic fields it causes disturbance on the gravitational field. Some sort of distortion that we observe on the liquid as spin. Since liquid particles are very light, they can catch up to the spinning fiel and form a vortex that we can observe visually. This spin is the opposite on the southern hemisphere.

I presume that due to the relatively small weight of the electrons the direction of their spinning might be important. I will certainly post some new pictures with polarity and winding directions to make it more clear.

BTW the same thing is observable on storm cyclones/anticyclones on norther/southern hemisphere as they can also form a vortex when they are trying to catch up to the gravitaional vortex.

(If you drop a very light object, e.g feather in strong vacuum it will still spin.)

teslaalset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #354 on: January 11, 2010, 03:46:54 PM »
If you have an Arduino code cleaned up, please don't hold it back as mine is still in the baby phase. I screwd up the primary on my coil (damaged) so it will tak a few hours while I clean it up rewind it, glue it, etc.

I can make my hex files available, no problem.
The model I am using is the Duemlanove (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDuemilanove)
Note, that I am programming the Atmel using assembler, to enable even the shortest pulses.
Minimum pulse length is 125 ns. I use that for other purposes.
The bootloader C-interpreter doesn't allow for very efficient compiling.
We can discuss what will be needed. I will fire up my setup this evening. Fingers crossed.

I think this is what you mean. :)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1110287.JPG

Yes, exactly. So, you have an asymmetry in your primary winding. Good to know.
Mine has full symmetry winding as a starter, maybe I'll change it to the original one after my first experiments.

Thanks for the accurate feedback again.

p.s. picture from your coil attached to preserve the info, just in case
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 04:27:47 PM by teslaalset »

Mk1

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #355 on: January 11, 2010, 03:56:56 PM »
@agentgates

You made one with 36 turn coil , i wish i could make one also , could you give me the height and diameter , We need to make a ratio of it so people can make them with 36 turns.

Mark


agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #356 on: January 11, 2010, 04:08:22 PM »
Some important information for those who were in trouble with receiving the shown spikes. The following can be useful to find error:

1. Set your scope trigger to the output signal (first without load) and single shot capture, not continous.
2. Fire one primary coil at a time.
3. Make sure you use current limiter resistor on it (15-27ohms depending on your configuration) if you dont want to cook your coil/fet/transistor.
4. Input current should never go above 500mA as it will cause unnecessary heat and loss, input voltage above ~5V should show you that hump growing out the straight line. (length 500ns, but ignore, you will not need higher frequency)
5. When you have the hump, you can connect it to your pulse generator and set it to a low freq range, like 1kHz or below. (the scope shot I sent recently was taken at 87 Hz/50% and 3 phase, that is why we got those 2 more humps jumping out rapidly)
6. If still nothing, change polarity on the primary.
7. Mind that you put the scope probe's POSITIVE is on the POSITIVE output of your coil and you are triggering the positive edge.
8. If still nothing, check the winding direction and compare it with my photos. Left handed on both.
9. Check the spacing and that each turn on a single primary has done the 360 degrees with 10 degrees spacing.
10. Check the spaces between the secondary.
11. If still nothing, you are probably using soft wires and/or plastic covering on it that increases the space DRAMMATICALLY between the Primary/Secondary. Remember the intersecting area should be as small as possible but also as close as possible between primary/secondary.
12. If still nothing, remove the secondary and put a SINGLE turn of it on and get through this list again.
13. If still nothing, take a walk in the nature and watch birds for a few hours. Then come back and go through this list again. ;)

gotoluc

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #357 on: January 11, 2010, 04:10:23 PM »
Hello all,

@broli

no I dont have a working TPU in this moment.

I have only coils that are only working when flipped up side down.

Otto

I don't about everyone here but I would love to see a video of just that effect alone :)

Can you make a video for us Otto?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Magluvin

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #358 on: January 11, 2010, 04:17:47 PM »
Would it not make sense to just have the 3 primaries in series? I see from the beginning that the size of the primary keeps getting thinner as to reduce the ohms to reduce load current.
But we really dont know for sure that the spacing is optimum. Where do we have info to determine that criteria? Maybe it need an inch between windings. Maybe an inch and a half. 

If anyone has the equipment to test, a single primary, or even just a length of wire should show a continued dc output after the pulse is removed. If what is being said about the dc on the secondary is so.
Now if we confirm that there is a continuation of dc after the pulse, then we lay down a second length of wire next to the first and see what distance causes the inertial dc to be lessened. This will determine the spacing.
A good scope should be able to show what is happening in the wire after the pulse is removed. If it works at 100hz to what ever hz then the effect should be clear in the test I have laid out. And then string another wire across that lengths of primary at various angles to test the affect on the secondary to get a proper angle settings.
Again, at 100hz or 1000 hz, a scope should indicate what is happening.
I dont have a scope. But these are the experiments I would have gone for as I stated earlier in this thread.

Magthinks

agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #359 on: January 11, 2010, 04:19:54 PM »
@Mk1

I don't know what you mean under 36 turns. In my interpretation, when you finished with one primary coil, you will have to see 36 wires inside and outside. altogether 72 - to be more specific. :)