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Author Topic: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump  (Read 344047 times)

broli

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #240 on: January 09, 2010, 02:25:56 AM »
For the first time in history this is getting scary intresting  :)
There has always been a dead time in between pulses comming from 555 and or 4017 circuitry because there is no overlapping.
This shuts the field down between each step and this methode can never work.

If you guys suceed in proper overlapping, thus switching coils in time before the previous ones are switched off so the field never drops out, things can become real. :)
Nobody tried that in all these years, and i have always been thinking this was most important in order for the fields to interact properly.

NT.

It's pretty easy to have overlapping signals. Instead of using the delay function and letting the whole microchip do nothing for a while, you check if a certain time limit has passed if not you ignore the code block and move on to the next. Here's yet another example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay

An arduino is really a must next to an oscilloscope and a singal generator in this field, it allows for fast prototyping and feedback without too much headaches and it's cheap. I know tony wanted to keep things simple, hence the simplified decade timer, but an arduino offers much more control and is very simple to adjust on the fly thus ideal for finding the right parameters.

Bruce_TPU

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #241 on: January 09, 2010, 03:27:08 AM »
Hello ALL,

A fellow member of this forum, JDO300, asked me to post this for him.  He is busy working on his new sine wave generator. 

"Hi Bruce,

Here's the schematic I mentioned to you. Rather than using the 4017, this circuit uses a 74HC164 Shift register. That in combination with a NOR Gate produces the same effect as the 4017 (and the circuit could easily be modified to use the 4017 instead). But the useful thing here is that the signal source's pulse width is used to control the output pulse widths of the three channels simultaneously through the use of the three AND gates.

I didn't bother to redraw the circuit with the 4017 since I already had it in my stash so I thought I would pass it along. The signal source can be a 555 timer or any other suitable clock source." 

Any questions can be directed towards Jason.  Thank you.

Mannix

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #242 on: January 09, 2010, 05:05:16 AM »
I have as best I can attempted to get the results with the first coil setup.

I have varied the pulse width frequency, drive and powersupply. 0 -32v
I notice a solid resonance around 1.5 megahertz
I notice the coil gets quite hot as does the massive heatsink on my three igbt's
I do not see a dc level rise on the out put coil at any time

The heat being dissipated although not measured does not seem excessive for the wattage supplied

I have put various voltage globes on the output coil which is 5 turns and the 12 volt tail lamp gives the best response.

My pn devices have not blown up yet

There are Many things that I may not have  exactly correct so I wait for more specific  info on this first test please .
I have 3 phase controller etc etc etc  ready to go .

But need the start point

@Tony or any body who has run this up
could you of somebody else please help me and others get to the first described results    first..


Thanks

still mostly optomistic,

lindsay


agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #243 on: January 09, 2010, 08:17:03 AM »
Here's some info on port registers for the Arduino. Being a software dev I'm sure you will have no problems getting the Arduino to do what you like. This is just for future reference should you need the functionality;

Thanks, that looks handy. :)

Have you seen this example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Fading

You could use a single analog output to keep it on high and fade it out afterwards.

I am not looking to fade for now. Those were digital ports. :D

It's pretty easy to have overlapping signals. Instead of using the delay function and letting the whole microchip do nothing for a while, you check if a certain time limit has passed if not you ignore the code block and move on to the next. Here's yet another example:

http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/BlinkWithoutDelay

An arduino is really a must next to an oscilloscope and a singal generator in this field, it allows for fast prototyping and feedback without too much headaches and it's cheap. I know tony wanted to keep things simple, hence the simplified decade timer, but an arduino offers much more control and is very simple to adjust on the fly thus ideal for finding the right parameters.

Thanks. Yes I agree. Actually Arduino will also keep it simple.


@Nikola Tesla

Yes I did try these things a year ago and worked but used flyback diodes and thicker for primary thus blown my PSU, later PG and other instruments so I gave up at that time. :)

@Lindsay

1. Set the PG to 1kHz/50% and leave it as a constant reference signal, that should always work. And BTW it is not sensitive for frequency like a radio device. Think of the importance of frequency like at a switching PSU. Nothing more. :)

2. Make sure the IGBTs turn on properly.

3. Check the primary if it's not too thick. Mine is 0.38mm.

4. Check the left/right handed winding thing on both primaries and secondary. Perhaps it also counts. Take it as a reference:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG
(That is equivalent with 1 primary)

5. Make sure the signal is square wave, not sine or "flatter". (it works correctly with poor squarewaves as well)

6. Remove the bulb and let it to run without load for now.

7. Make sure the gaps are correct between the turns. If they are too close you really need the juice to see something on the scope.

8. If you still have problems please don't hesitate to send photos or we can chat on Skype if you'd need further help. :)

UPDATE

9. Make sure the secondary is tight enough. No need to force it just make sure it's not loose. That gives much worse output.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 08:46:28 AM by agentgates »

ramset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #244 on: January 09, 2010, 09:04:30 AM »
Tony
Something is different in this thread!
Feels very good.

Thanks Tony
and @all

Chet

teslaalset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #245 on: January 09, 2010, 09:36:50 AM »
Some simple math:
1 KHz @ 50 % driving e.g. coil that is powered by 12 V and has a resistance of 1 ohm.
- Max. current in the primary will be 12 A
- Power consumed by the primary is 12V x 12A x 0.5 = 72W

I am sure the primary will get hot with these settings.

Yes, I am aware that impedance will limit the current somewhat more, but with 36 windings it will hardly count.

agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #246 on: January 09, 2010, 09:47:51 AM »
Some simple math:
1 KHz @ 50 % driving e.g. coil that is powered by 12 V and has a resistance of 1 ohm.
- Max. current in the primary will be 12 A
- Power consumed by the primary is 12V x 12A x 0.5 = 72W

I am sure the primary will get hot with these settings.

Yes, I am aware that impedance will limit the current somewhat more, but with 36 windings it will hardly count.

Yes that is correct, but his seeking error, and I just wanted to make sure I give him 100% working data that he can rely on because I don't know his configuration in details. BTW, mine are ~4.75 ohms DC on Stefan's new sexy acrylic coil. :)

@Lindsay
You can try one primary at a time. Just hook it to the PG directly and you'll see your optimum.

agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #247 on: January 09, 2010, 09:50:43 AM »
Tony
Something is different in this thread!
Feels very good.

Perhaps they tried out what I said and fight with their breaths. :D

teslaalset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #248 on: January 09, 2010, 11:06:08 AM »
Tony, I am a bit worried about your power supply and its possible behaviour.
I am using a car battery, so current is available up to 400 Amps.
With very low primary coil resistance/impedance your power supply will most likely reach its current limit, although you are applying a large capacitor parallel to its terminals.

If this happens, I wonder what the effect will be on the circuit.
Maybe it's useful to monitor your input power with an oscilloscope to see how stable your power supply is during operation.
Is this something you already have checked?

I may sound a bit critical, but I am only trying to help out issues that will be raised anyhow, I hope everybody understands that.
See them as constructive comments.

Mannix

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #249 on: January 09, 2010, 11:09:40 AM »
@ tony .. ok more work tonight when the heat dies down here.

try one primary at a time?
I only have one primary. Have i missed something there?

thanks

lindsay

ketone

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #250 on: January 09, 2010, 01:04:47 PM »
 Hi all,         
               
                Haven't been able to start my build yet{materials}....but was wondering if anyone has based their build angle of the primary windings on the golden triangle? It has angles of  36°-72°-72°.

  afaik...agentgates is getting great results with 45 degrees

 


agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #251 on: January 09, 2010, 01:17:57 PM »
@teslaalset

Thanks for the useful advices. :) I put more caps in parallel just to be sure. BTW I am moving on to decrease the current intake and step a bit higher with voltage as it more behaves as a voltage device rather than a current one. So I placed current limiter resistors in series with the coils.

@Lindsay

Yes we are optimising my old design to make the fact of OU less questionable, more compact and more visual  without using more TPUs. In my original design I used 2 stages of TPUs to boost up the output with LC stages and full bridge rectifiers to keep the field spinning. We are about to repeat it with a single TPU without ugly spikes, inefficient back EMFs and heating problems.

Some major modifications:

1. Gaps between secondary windings to decrease back EMF, power consumption and remove many components intended to smooth the output. With this configuration for one shot all you have to see is a big exponentially rising hump with the same falling edge and 2 or three hard to see long and almost completely flat waves as back EMF oscillation. See the 2 scope shots I sent for comparison, those were taken by the 9 turn secondary coil of mine.

2. More primary coils to distribute heat on the coils and (it is important) to fill the gaps between the pulses as it seems the winding gaps give the pulse delay not the driving frequency. We layed 2 other primary between the already wound one and shoot them in 120 degrees phase out. (I'm currently simplifying the circuitry to make it cheaper to build and more available to all testers)

The correct output signal with one primary at 50% is like this: -__-__-__-__-__.

If you increase or decrease the pulse width you'll get smaller peak, instead of shorter or longer in duration, also the gaps remain stable at any frequencies. This is why the 2 more primary.

Input signals:
---___---___---___---___
_---___---___---___---__
__---___---___---___---_

Output signal:
--------------------------

So you should get a stable HV high current DC with some insignificant waves on it's top without LC.

3. We use thinner primary wires than the original has, as it seems the device likes to spin electrons in thicker conductors in its environment. By using thinner wires we decrease the weight on the IGBTs and we can step below to low power transistors or darlington array or similar.

4. We use thicker on the secondary to get the power collected there rather than on the primary.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:55:53 PM by agentgates »

wings

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #252 on: January 09, 2010, 04:02:38 PM »
Hello IceStorm,

Thank you for the advice I am aware of their inaccuracies (I'm a software engineer  ;) ).

UPDATE

Just an idea, if somebody has a stepper motor driver handy can save a lots of time with shift registers and transistors as in functionality they give similar result.


Arduino stepper controller code

http://code.google.com/p/rsteppercontroller/downloads/list
http://code.google.com/p/arduino-m5451-current-driver/w/list
http://code.google.com/p/stepperserialcontrol/downloads/list

http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/StepperMotor
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/StepperBipolar
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 04:43:04 PM by wings »

agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #253 on: January 09, 2010, 05:31:58 PM »
@wings
Thanks for the link. I tried the arduino stepper motor library last night but it doesn't really comply my demands. It has inaccurate output and needs feedback to work correctly.

Video in a few minutes with some explanation as I saw many of you had problems with understanding the concept.

(sorry for the delay there is no sound, I'm going to record it again :( )
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 06:40:24 PM by agentgates »

ramset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #254 on: January 09, 2010, 05:57:29 PM »
Gotta get some popcorn :D

I used to love the movies


Chet