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Author Topic: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump  (Read 272284 times)

Offline agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2010, 11:27:50 PM »
The coil with 6 primary. It will be 3 but I want to vary the connections to find the one that will give the best performance.

3 primary coils on.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060249.JPG

6 primary coils on.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060250.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060251.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060252.JPG
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG (ignore the bulb)

Scope shot, one primary coil fired. This is not the best shot as there was no pull down on the fet right now so there is oscillation behind of it. The important is the rising edge.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060253.JPG

6 coils in series as follows, equivalent to one coil of the previous designs.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060256.JPG

Scope shot, 6 primary coil fired connected in series without load. The oscillation is disappeared.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG

Same with load. (240V 50W halogene bulb)
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060257.JPG

The input was 17V and some mAmps (unimportant for now).

The reason of the multiple coils to fire them each other and put those peaks onto each other. The more you shoot after each other the higher it will rise as lenz-law problem is not involved.

I'm still on the driver circuitry and diagram to comply the latter. Keep on saving the photos and descriptions guys.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 12:10:13 AM by agentgates »

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Offline ketone

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2010, 11:51:00 PM »
Hello agentgates, Great work! :o

I think you got the pic for the scope shot confused...no scope shot

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2010, 12:04:13 AM »
Here is the scopeshot:

http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG

The question is, where the zero line is at and what kind of DC
level do we expect ?
Is the zero ground line where the left red maker is at ?
Is that the input current or input voltage ?

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2010, 12:04:13 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2010, 12:08:12 AM »

Offline agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2010, 12:14:11 AM »
@Agentgates,
what DC level do you mean ?
The spike or the levels behind the spike ?

The red line is CH1 on the screen. One unit is 50V. (See the bottom left corner)

I make another shot with peak level indication, that output looks over 50V. This device will be far better than the previous one. Thinner primary and more turnes on the secondary. One IRFP460 driving them. No significant heat.

UPDATE1

Here it is.
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060258.JPG

Lower voltage on the input side: 15V. It is unimportant as you can decrease it after you reached the necessary output. So you will give it 1V or 2V spikes when it is shooting in series and simply varying the freq and peak.

(Soon I'm bringing the vids with the driver circuitry)

UPDATE2
sorry for the bad pic number

UPDATE3
sorry again, now I really fixed the pic # after I slept a little :D And that is not an illusion there in the bottom right corner... ;)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 08:16:04 AM by agentgates »

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2010, 12:14:11 AM »
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Offline agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2010, 12:37:18 AM »
The question is, where the zero line is at and what kind of DC
level do we expect ?
Is the zero ground line where the left red maker is at ?

Yes, the zero line is arrow on the left side. See the scope shot I recently sent. I changed the indicator on the right, so now it shows the correct value.

Is that the input current or input voltage ?

Ignore that ~11V, that is average and the off state is also calculated.

UPDATE

Appologize Gentleman. I think I must sleep a few hours as I can't keep my eyes open. I'll be bcak tomorrow.

Take care and keep saving everything and keep me up-to-date with your stories on experiments. :)

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2010, 01:17:16 AM »
Tony,

Aside from your melted IGBT's, is your current coil producing more power out on the secondary than is put into the primary? 

What is the input amps and volts, and what is the output amps and volts.  What is the load on the output?

We know that you are tired.  We look forward to seeing a circuit and video as well when you are able.  Thank you for your hard work!

Cheers,

Bruce

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2010, 01:17:16 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2010, 02:37:42 AM »
I think tony is seeing massive heat buildup on the pn junctions and the effect of what can only be  high current of some strange kind.

Best to build one and see this for our selves.
It sure looks like there is spin happening there , harvesting it in phase will be the challenge.
I will try it with bottles as soon as i have zapped a few fets.

this is not a complicated bulid .
I remain fully optomistic





Offline cristachelu

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2010, 02:50:08 AM »
Sorry to interrupt you but I think the coil has to small inductance and the pulse needs to be very short to lower the switch heat.
Maybe a HV capacitor discharged through a gap in a resonant LC primary maybe...

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2010, 02:50:08 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2010, 03:17:00 AM »
Sorry to interrupt you but I think the A has to small inductance and the pulse needs to be very short to lower the switch heat.
Maybe a HV capacitor discharged through a gap in a resonant LC primary maybe...

That sure would lower the component count and the pn junction  would not be able to suck the particles away.

 so a low current hv supply with a little spark gap  no oscillators at all hmm...
I imagine it would make a buzzing sound and have possibly vibration, lots to try here

Offline minde4000

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2010, 05:37:28 AM »
Hi,

I had a piece of pvc pipe and some wire so I made this A in less than an hour.

Primary AWG 22
Secondary AWG 15

As you can see I did not space my secondary yet (it wasn't spaced out in his first pics I suppose that was a working model?)

I ran it with my SG and Lawton 12VDC pwm. Still waiting for optimum pulser diagrams. I can see waves in my scope on primary... you know just a shape changing pulses as you adjust frequency... nothing special. But thats all I have done so far. 12VDC bulb connected as a load stays cold.

Also I would like to mention that PVC tube is 4.5" diam and 4" higth with 0.25" walls. And unfortunately it is not perfectly round and andgle apppears to be some 50-60 degrees. 

Regards Minde

« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 06:54:08 AM by minde4000 »

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2010, 05:37:28 AM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2010, 07:24:14 AM »
The segments of wire on the outside of the cylinder are helical, while the inside segments are straight.  The attached plots depict the difference.  The outside wires hug the surface of the cylinder, whereas the inside wires conform to the surface of a hyperboloid of revolution.

Offline minde4000

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2010, 08:38:24 AM »
With 15 AWG 12 turn secondary.

M
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 07:09:15 PM by minde4000 »

Offline ramset

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2010, 09:45:07 AM »
Minde4000
If being neat and looking good makes them work that beauty should power your whole block
Beautifull !!
Chet

Offline agentgates

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Re: Agentgates´s TPU setup with strange wavehill hump
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2010, 09:49:12 AM »
Aside from your melted IGBT's, is your current coil producing more power out on the secondary than is put into the primary? What is the load on the output?

Yes, far more than I could supply with the PSU. Please see the last scope shot with the 240V/50W bulb on it. (125ohm DC resistance)

What is the input amps and volts, and what is the output amps and volts.

Input: 15V/ ~1A (ignore the relatively high amp as it is a single shot, FET fired by hand. It will significantly drop when the accelerator circuitry is done and will continously run)

Output: 126V with the mentioned load.

More info on the recent design

When I don't do the full circle with one shot (split the coil to 6 equal parts) you will see the oscillation behind the peak I showed:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060254.JPG

And after put them in series back to the original design (equal to 1 primary coil):
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1060255.JPG

So I increased the tube diameter on the next one (larger acrylic) to make more room between the primary windings for the 2 more primary coil. (BTW, acrylic materials arrived for Stefan's coil so I start to build it on his coil and finally send it to him ASAP to make everybody feel better :) )

@minde4000

Your secondary is not good with 3 turns. That never lighted bulb for me and will never do that. I presented that with the 2.2 ohm resistor on the power drop.

That coil is here and I used another similar design in 2 stages to boost the output:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/P1070264.JPG

In other words there was 2 TPU driving each other and 1kV/3A bridge rectifier after every stages and resonant inductors  + foil cap after the last stage. It was driven by IGBT and was lasted 30 sec before the black plastic started to melt on the edge. (I didn't post that pic with the completed secondary, so sorry)

On the new design there is no inductor, foil cap, rectifier, nothing. Only the bulb and the scope.

So wind it as it was mentioned above. BTW that is a nice primary on the photo. (you really need the IGBT to fire that thick copper as it is not a current device, it is a voltage device!)

@zerotensor
WOW! Beautiful work. May I use them later on presentations? :)

@Mannix
Yes the junction problem will be solved on the next design (I hope I can buy a thinner copper) and I'm not looking to use IGBT or FET on the final design as the power consumption does not require. I'll solve it by even thinner primary (hairline) and use tiny transistors. It seems the thinner primary reduces the heat problem and more goes to the secondary. We'll see when the new 3CH design and the circuit is done.

More in a couple of hours.

UPDATE1

For calculating tube length to the 45 degrees:
http://www.samsonium.org/sites/default/files/formula.JPG

UPDATE2
@minde4000

Yes, that is nice now. Drive it and let us see a scopeshot. :)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 10:19:26 AM by agentgates »

 

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