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2nd "law" violations => Heat to mechanical energy conversion => Topic started by: Foggy-Notion on January 05, 2010, 09:18:01 AM

Title: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 05, 2010, 09:18:01 AM
Most of you have heard of the Stanley Steamer,
But there was a Steam car called the Doble which used a flash steam
method invented by Joseph Perkins, which allowed a small chamber to
be heated, rather than having to heat the whole boiler.

Thus it was safer, with no chance of boiler explosion, but it was also
way efficient.  you see, this gave it a warm up wait time of 30 seconds.

It went from 0 to 60 in a "flash", or a few.


It was quiet, sleek, and toped out at 95 mph (this was the 1930s mind you)
The only problem, was for the power brokers.  You see, it could turn an
alternator or generator, en route which supplied ample enough electricity
to keep battery charged, just like today if you drove at night, with Stereo,
amp, and head lights on, etc. 

In other words the generator it turned supplied enough electricity to heat
that little flash steam chamber.  No, it wasn't over unity, you did after all
have to add water, once every 200 miles.

Now you know why it disapeared.
Emissions? ...water.  It was pollution free. 
And that was top of line back in the 1930s
Imagine all the improvements and advancements steam cars
could have undergone over the last 80 years?

...if they weren't suppressed by the Oil Pigs.

Most "improvements" were already accomplished by Doble.
It was a lean, mean, clean, machine.

I also remember hearing about a method of boiling water using two
live wires or metal plates, and 48 watts?  which prodcued all kinds
of steam, which could flow through heating pipes and radiators
just like the old days, heating entire buildings.

In fact elsewhere I mention the Perkins Friction Heater.
It can be used to boil water, yet is powered by only a small
electric motor.  It too could send steam through pipes.

People seem to forget the power of steam.

This world use to have locomotive steam trains pulling a 1000 tons
down the tracks, surely such power can be re-examined with new
ways of heating that water, from friction heaters to flash chambers.
for acheivng OU, much like the "fueless heater" video on youtube,

Only the Perkins Friction Heater does not beat the water to a boil,
does not use holes in the cilinders, and thus uses a much smaller
electic motor, for nothing but smooth spin cycle through oil.


Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: ATT on January 05, 2010, 07:31:45 PM
...there was a Steam car called the Doble which used a flash steam
method invented by Joseph Perkins...

As might be expected, Jay Leno has one...

I didn't find much on Joseph Perkins as regards the flash-boiler in the Doble, seems the boiler and it's improvements are attributed to Doble (one or all brothers, at various times).


Doble, Abner
Born in California in 1895. Associated with the development of the steam-powered automobile, especially in the USA: this used a liquid-fuel fired flash-type boiler. Also used on railway vehicles produced by Sentinel in late 1930s, notably a shunting locomotive for the LMS using liquid fuel and the railbus for the Southern Railway.

A good overview/synopsis:

Abner's paper on steam cars/boilers:

California Archives:

Now, consider that with the properly selected refrigerant, a closed-loop system (still essentially  'external combustion') might be possible, however the mitigating factor in this case would be the requirements of condensation/change-of-state.

Heat pumps, after all, already have a COP >1.

Wally Minto explored this back in the early '70s, with some success.

Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 06, 2010, 04:46:10 AM
Sorry, ...that's "Jacob" Perkins
(Well at least I was in Genesis)


With "propper refrigerant"?  well, Jacob also pioneered some of that too,
witch reminds me of this cool thing I want in my yard,...

However one might look into electrostatic cooling as well.

Vortex tube cooling might have it's place somewhere here.
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: ATT on January 06, 2010, 07:59:00 AM
Back when I was in high school and gas and electric prices were cheap, Arkla Servel absorption ACs were being pushed by the gas company. Today, absorbtion units may have a resurgence because the heat to drive them can come from solar sources (I think Servel still makes refrigerators these days, good for off-gridders).

They used to use ammonia, I think they're all lithium-bromide now.

Electrostatic cooling looks like a neat effect, it might have a use in some industrial applications, however, from reading the 2006 test the guy wrote up, it looks like it has an 'ambient' lower-limit and no mention was made of btuh vs power-used, so I guess the jury's still out on that method. Doesn't look like anybody exactly 'jumped' on it as an energy saver, wouldn't work here in the desert with our summer ambients.

As for Hilsch tubes, they take as much power as conventional AC (maybe more, these days, owing to AC/HP efficiency improvements), but the principle and the effects are perfect for low-maintenance spot cooling/heating, first ran across these in a Popular Mechanics article back in the '60s (I -think- it was PM).

I'd still put my money on the thermodynamic properties of engineered azeotropes, that's the basis for current HP COP>1 (some at 3 & 4) performance. No free lunch, but a 'designer' mix could prove useful when targeted for locally extant temperature differentials. It's one way to generate electricity for less (or almost free).

So you never know, sometimes 'old' is new again...

Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 06, 2010, 09:35:42 AM
Well just use your kitchen refrigerater than, it's an over unity device.

Scroll down to #7 when you get there.
Anyway I believe BLOMGREN more than
The 2nd Lie of Thermodynamics, since
Blomgran shelled out the patent lawyer
money, surely he tripple checked all his
findings, in fact it sounds like a couple
of Joule Thievs could accomplish some
electrostatic cooling.
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: ATT on January 06, 2010, 07:57:09 PM
Scroll down to #7 when you get there.

#7 is talking about Wallace Minto here:

"One such system, tested in the 1970s, produced 350 hp, measured on a dynamometer, in a specially designed engine from just 100 square feet of solar collector."

Anyway I believe BLOMGREN more than The 2nd Lie of Thermodynamics...

According to the account by Riconosciuto, what he managed to do was actually -reconcile- the second-law (and others) with the effects that were demonstrated:

"...would lead one to suspect a violation of the second law of thermodynamics is being claimed here"
"...effects appeared to violate Joule's law of heat flow."
"...could not be immediately reconciled with the Second Law of thermodynamics, Joule's Law and Fourier's theorems on heat flow, and the Conservation laws of physics."

Is that it? have we covered all the laws yet?

What's Batman gonna do now? Will the diabolical 'Blomgren device' put a stake through the heart of all physics as we know it? Can NO oNE SaVe Us?

Riconosciuto says: '...Watch me work...'

"...mathematical modeling and numerical simulation with application of the boundary value problems of thermodynamics based on second order partial differential equations derived from elliptic functions."

( it was them 'elliptical functions' what finally done it...):

"I succeeded in completely reconciling the observed experimental results with the apparent violations of the laws of physics."

So in the end, Blomgren's method was brought under the jack-booted heel of the second 'lie' of thermodynamics, just like everybody else.

And you know what that means...'no free lunch'...

Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 07, 2010, 12:25:01 AM

The mathmatical what?
Geez it's not that hard to set up an actual physical test.
People were experimenting with electric wind many years ago...

Ah, disinfo, who's goal it is, to keep us returning to defend
our statements and basically waste our time arguing, rather
than building the devices (the last thing they want us to do)

If you don't believe in OU, what the hell are you doing here?
Do you see the dilema here folks?  If someone doesn't believe
in OU, they wouldn't be here at all, let alone spend so much
time trying to tell us we must obey corrupt scientific laws.

That is only the behavior of someone who gets paid to do that,
because OU is quite real and poses a threat to their interests
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or interest of their sugar daddy oil company.

But I don't want to take the bait and waste all my time arguing
with him, letting him keep me from the construction of a device.
so I will just Iggy him...

...and leave you all with this borrowed post from Ice Czar over at

"alternative" sources get tied up in conspiracy theories so the
term electrostatic cooling is largely useless for research

however when you dig past that into patents and the search terms

corona wind
corona electrostatic convection
electrostatic precipitation
Kulacki Velkoff electrostatic

the validity of electrostatic heat transfer enhancment is relatively
well documented and quantified...

one of the interesting points is that it is both applicable inside
a coolant circuit as well as outside, thus enhancing heat transfer
from a waterblock to the coolant from the coolant to a radiator and
from a radiator to the air are all possible given the right arrays.

theory in a nutshell corona ion effect enhances turbulance allowing
for a better swapout of the boundary layer

it also leads sideways into fringe antigravity\electrogravity science
(based on the Biefeld–Brown effect)

which until just the other day was largely considered pipedream stuff
but may infact have some interesting accepted corollary corroboration

it will be interesting to see if any of the fringe gets recognized\incorporated

END Quote
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: ATT on January 07, 2010, 04:26:58 AM
The mathmatical what?
Geez it's not that hard to set up an actual physical test.
People were experimenting with electric wind many years ago...

Did you actually 'read' the page you sent to me to? It looks like you may have gotton the wrong impression. If you did, 'electric wind' was never the issue, it was a discussed byproduct that was discounted as a cooling force in the experiment.

But maybe that's the problem here, you're not understanding all of what's presented or your just skimming the article and filling in the blanks yourself with what agrees with your own predispositions.

That's why my response to the web page you sent me to wasn't what you expected, you thought the page said something different than what it did.

If you don't believe in OU, what the hell are you doing here?

Overunity isn't a 'religion', it doesn't depend on 'belief', it's a quest that seeks facts and effects that can be replicated and proved. Take a look around the forum, the builders here are looking for 'what works' and throwing out 'what doesn't', people are sharing ideas, swapping techniques, bending the rules, working together.

The only difference between what people do here and in the mainstream is the 'direction', the focus is on alternative discovery but the mainstream techniques that validate that discovery are still adhered to. It has to be that way or mainstream acceptance of 'proofs' wouldn't be possible (and you'd have a lot more 'Mylows' running around here than there already are).

So chill, there's a lot of talent on this board and you can learn a bunch, every now and then you can give something back too, but posts like your last one are uncalled for.

Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 07, 2010, 04:56:51 AM
I know for fact that some of the OU devices discussed in this forum work.
You on the other hand I suspect, will say none of them work.

You've made it clear your purpose here, Mr. "No free Lunch"
You're here to try and enforce a lie, which you call a "law"
You are the 'Thought Police' and you will tell us what to think.
But we will not listen.  We are outlaws, but you are criminals.

One tactic used by disinfo agents, is to goat the other into heated argument,
a flame war, then have one of their fellow creepers complain to the mod, asking them
to delete the entire thread.  And another tactic they love to use in the process,
is to act very polite and innocent as if, "Oh my, what did I ever do to deserve such
treatment, I merely stated that...bla bla"

But a lie is rude, Mr.  Far more rude than any words from those whom discover the lie.
A lie says, "you are all stupid and I intend to keep you stupid because you deserve to
be robbed of truth and more"  that is what a lie says, a lie is quite rude, no matter
the smile on the face from which it fly.

Further more they strive to acquire the much coveted moderator position,
and being new here I am unfamiliar with who the spooks are, thus far.

If you are not what I describe, than it is in no way directed at you.
And we are both in agreement on what a disinfo agent is.

But the mere thought of one, though flattering due to their
sub species soul and inferior intelligence, is still unpleasent.

Excuse me, I have to catch my skin, it's crawling.
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Doug1 on January 07, 2010, 01:42:50 PM
 If your just looking for something to tinker with and like the notion of a steam engine. Snag an old VW bettle run two cyclinders off normal fuel and two off water vapor using the resultant heat to increase the vaporization of both the water and the petrol fuel. The intake manifold of an old vw engine are very easy to rework if you can operate a wire feed welder, hand held grinder. You will have to jet down the carb so it will practically not run for lack of fuel when connected to all 4 cyl but enough to run real rough on just two. The raise in block/head temp from the two cyl's running gas will improve the spark plugs ability in the 2 water vapor cyl ers and provide the heat to make it work in the winter. A junk vw can get a lot better millage and provide yrs of tweeking fun. They are easy to fix because they come so far aprt ,heads cyl etc.. Then if you really get it going well you can have the two cyl'ers running water vapor ceramic coated for a fraction what it would cost to coat all the needed parts on a v8.
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 08, 2010, 05:14:48 AM
yeah I've heard water will burn, if you vaporize it enough and use HV
even without actually breaking it down to HHO before hand.
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: truesearch on January 12, 2010, 05:55:46 PM
Back to the orginal typic re: Doble Steam Car it appears that very little is actually known. Certainly not enough to attempt a duplication is there?

Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 13, 2010, 03:18:53 AM
Some of the cars are still in existence, in collections,
engine specs are available on line, though I don't expect
most of us to take on such a project, having the knowledge
is good, people pushing for cleaner technology is good, and
yes, some of us can build one.

This guy builds steam cars.

A stationary version can also be built for home power,
and the exhaust used to heat your home and hot water.

Replace carosine with choice of heat. Induction heater, etc..
Title: Re: Doble Steam Car
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 15, 2010, 01:56:13 AM
Now an induction heater would power the flash steam chamber,
and there are many better alternatives to a standard alternator,
which could power the induction heater.

Now imagine never having to stop for water.  How you say?

Water from air...