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Author Topic: Hairpin Project  (Read 108587 times)

Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 06:29:27 AM »
I am with you there Res.
Lower voltage and portability.  A cap can be a High Tension source. Getting that charge is easy and high freq helps to keep it that way. So lets say we use a reed switch to make our spark gap, or make and break as Tesla first used before the spark gap. If we have a reed relay, we can easily get the reed to pulse at fairly high freq and use diodes to stop the back feed, as Tesla claims. I have some big reeds that I will have to use a larger coil to operate as compared to a reed relay. Now where I am at with it is what do we do with the output of that pulse. How do we utilize the RE into usable energy. How is that excess manifested. Im still reading.

Magluvin
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forest

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2010, 09:10:28 AM »
No need to use diodes when you have Edison DC  generator with commutator  ::)
Reversals was not possible at all because commutator was acting as second spark gap - btw this is why commutator was invented - to prevent AC ha ha, of course by accident .
What is happening with magnetic field of solenoid if circuit suddenly is opened on both ends ?
It has to dissipate somehow....
Btw capacitor can also be a gap in circuit...
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2010, 10:02:21 AM »
Forest
Well we dont have an Edison dc gen handy, also most of Teslas Impulse projects did use the gen as a source.
But he still had to use a magnetic spark blowout setup. Just to make the jump a pure one way situation.
Can you elaborate on the cap as a spark gap? Tito mentioned that also. He had me going on using a zener diode, and then said that he didnt use that anymore, he uses a cap. So now Im really lost. In that respect anyway.
Thanks forest

Mags
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resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2010, 06:01:31 PM »
Quote from: Magluvin on January 04, 2010, 06:29:27 AM
I am with you there Res.
Lower voltage and portability.  A cap can be a High Tension source. Getting that charge is easy and high freq helps to keep it that way. So lets say we use a reed switch to make our spark gap, or make and break as Tesla first used before the spark gap. If we have a reed relay, we can easily get the reed to pulse at fairly high freq and use diodes to stop the back feed, as Tesla claims. I have some big reeds that I will have to use a larger coil to operate as compared to a reed relay. Now where I am at with it is what do we do with the output of that pulse. How do we utilize the RE into usable energy. How is that excess manifested. Im still reading.

Magluvin

Magluvin

A  reed switch may be a good place to start ........along that line  there are also available small preset spark gaps  I do not  remember what they are called...... a couple people on the earth battery thread were experimenting with  them    I will  have to look them up .

Any device that uses a spark gap of any kind  will eventually fail because  the spark carries a small amount of metal with  it each time.

I want  a build it and  forget it kind of device.
I do not want to have to keep adjusting  a spark gap to keep it running

My idea would work kind of like  a mag amp.
It would have 2 cores  an input and an output core./
The power level that it runs at would  be set by  the input coil  and core.
The input  coil will make magnetic flux that will  go into the input core
The vast majority  of the flux will stay in the core unless enough power is used to saturate the core.
Once the input core is saturated the magnetic flux will start to flow outside the core
This  core will need  a non magnetic spacer around it for this excess flux to flow in

I am thinking  that the output core should  be of higher permeability  or  have more iron content  than the input core.

Assuming  we  have enough power  to have  the input core saturated  and flux flowing  in the space  between the 2 cores.  If we add a little more power  the  flux will have enough volume to be flowing near enough to the output core to be attracted to it..

If  the  output  sore is more attractive to the flux than the input core......the majority  of the magnetic flux should  jump the gap kind of like  a magnet jumps to a piece  of iron.

So far  I have not  got the jump to work.
The best I have done is  to  have a coil  that lets the voltage below  a certain voltage through on the input  side.

Voltage above that level appeared on the output  side.
This was  done on a toroid.
Toroids really suck for this kind  of device because  the winding is not uniform from  inside to outside ,

I have breen meaning to try  a couple  E cores I got a while back
The question is.......what  do I use for a input core.
The input  core would have to be added to the coil after the output coil and the flux gap.



Another thing that might work  with this kind  of coil.
If an extra winding  was placed in the gap  between the  input  and output cores  this  winding would either aid  the flux in jumping or inhibit it depending on its polarity  ......it could  be an inductive triode.

gary

 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 06:43:25 PM by resonanceman »
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resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2010, 06:11:13 PM »
Quote from: resonanceman on January 04, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
Magluvin

A  reed switch may be a good place to start ........along that line  there are also available small preset spark gaps  I do not  remember what they are called...... a couple people on the earth battery thread were experimenting with  them    I will  have to look them up .

Any device that uses a spark gap of any kind  will eventually fail because  the spark carries a small amount of metal with  it each time.

I want  a build it and  forget it kind of device.
I do not want to have to keep adjusting  a spark gap top keep it running

My idea would work kind of like  a mag amp.
It would have 2 cores  an input and an output core./
The power level that it runs at would  be set by  the input coil  and core.
The input  coil will make magnetic flux that will  go into the input core
The vast majority  of the flux will stay in the core unless enough power is used to saturate the core.
Once the input core is saturated the magnetic flux will start to flow outside the core
This  core will need  a non magnetic spacer around it for this excess flux to flow in

I am thinking  that the output core should  be of higher permeability  or  have more iron content  than the input core.

Assuming  we  have enough power  to have  the input core saturated  and flux flowing  in the space  between the 2 cores.  If we add a little more power  the  flux will have enough volume to be flowing near enough to the output core to be attrracted to it..

If  the  output  sore is more arttractive to the flux than the input core......the majority  of the magnetic flux should  jump the gap kind of like  a magnet jumps to a piece  of iron.

So far  I have not  got the jump to work.
The best I have done is  to  have a coil  that lets the voltage below  a certian voltage through on the input  side.

Voltage above that level appeared on the output  side.
This was  done on a toroid.
Toroids really suck for this kind  of device because  the winding is not uniform from  inside to outside ,

I have breen meaning to try  a couple  E cores I got a while back
The question is.......what  do I use for a input core.
The input  core would have to be added to the coil after the output coil and the flux gap.



Another thing that might work  with this kind  of coil.
If an extra winding  was placed in the gap  between the  input  and output cores  this  winding would either aid  the flux in jumping or inhibit it depending on its polarity  ......it could  be an inductive triode.

gary

I am thinking it would be really cool to  use  a bifilar JT as the input winding  of one of these coils.
If the  input  core and gap were tuned right  we would end up  with a string  of  pulses with a very high rate of change.........these pulses should  be usable   on  the caps and rods  of a small hairpin


gary

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resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2010, 06:32:03 PM »
Quote from: forest on January 04, 2010, 09:10:28 AM
No need to use diodes when you have Edison DC  generator with commutator  ::)
Reversals was not possible at all because commutator was acting as second spark gap - btw this is why commutator was invented - to prevent AC ha ha, of course by accident .
What is happening with magnetic field of solenoid if circuit suddenly is opened on both ends ?
It has to dissipate somehow....
Btw capacitor can also be a gap in circuit...

Forest

By Edison generator do you mean  normal old fashoned DC generator?

I can see how a DC generator could  be modified to make a string  of DC pulses .........just remove all but 1 or 2 windings.
I am not sure that those pulses would  have a high enough rate of change to replace a sparkgap.........maybe they would.



I have no idea how a cap could  be used as a gap  ........can you explain that one  more?


gary
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2010, 06:55:20 PM »
Cap Gap.   I read that you can use a "blown" cap for a gap.  Weird. Wasnt much explaining there.
But I imagine that the cap has an over, or under in this case, voltage leak, where the cap charges up to the point of leak breach and discharges. But I would think that whatever is going on inside cannot be a good thing, especially after a good while that gap either gets bigger and or carbonized and your left trying to make a new blown cap for replacement. Thats no fun. I may as well by batteries
That one needs explanation.

Mags gap cap
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2010, 07:01:09 PM »
Hey Gary,  How about surge devices? There are different kinds. There are cap type that have a cut in them, I suppose that is the cap gap they are speaking of. And there are zener type, like a double zener. And others. I will have a looky and see what is available.

mags gap caps
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2010, 07:07:14 PM »
Yo Gary   check it
http://www.spectrumcontrol.com/catalog/emc.asp

We may have lift off.

Cap gaps.  Thats funny

Magz
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jadaro2600

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2010, 07:15:14 PM »
If it's atmosphereic you're wanting, imagine the a layer of atmosphere you want to tap, create the spark gap in that pressure environment with those types of gasses?

Now, take into account the corona discharge at that pressure, and you may have better results.

In my opinion, this device can be operated on voltage, expending minimal current.  There are studies which suggest the electrons flow very slowly - i think this is the key to understanding teslas longitudinal waves - since electrons respresent current, their slow speed indicated that standing waves can be created with very minimal flow.

After all, in radio waves, their source is pulses ( AC ), and they travel very far.
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2010, 07:25:42 PM »
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2010, 07:30:07 PM »
Jadaro
One problem there Jad, Teslas was Impulse DC  not ac.  The impulse of high tension dc crossing a gap, or being switched on, produces these compnents we are seaching for. Tesla abandoned ac for this. 

Mags cap gap
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2010, 07:44:06 PM »
These look like what we may want, not sure, but they are pre made tiny spark gaps tuned for peak voltages and rated in kilo amps
http://www.circuitprotection.com/gdt.asp

Mags cap gaps
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Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2010, 07:48:45 PM »
A good read on these gas discharge devices. These are more for circuit boards, component level protection but thats what we want, portable power.
http://www.citel.us/gas_distcharge_tubes_overview.html

Mags cap gaps     I just like the ring of it.
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forest

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2010, 08:49:57 PM »
As Don Smith mentioned capacitor is a break of circuit.What Tesla found was discovered before for example by Edison.Tesla only perfected method by using resonance.
No reversal of current is done by commutator or chemical battery of special capacitor like electrolytic one.
Edison experiments are crucial to free energy understanding.It's perfectly clear that Edison discovered pure magnetic phenomena of waves supported by external magnetic field (Earth field).Not transverse waves.
Radiant electricity = etheric force
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