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Author Topic: Hairpin Project  (Read 103559 times)

Offline jeanna

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2010, 02:12:23 AM »
t's still unclear whether or not the source is AC ..the image Jeanna posted trivializes the device's generator ( which I think is the key to the whole source-idea ); this was done to simplify the patent filing I'm sure.

I want to know ( as well ) what's going on in the capacitors at the base of the rods, and how it's possible to create a difference between the two when their essentially sharing a base via a connecting rod.

The equivalent circuit is an AC source with two capacitor in series, fancy linkage between them, and some strange effects.

this drawing came from a lecture in 1892 given to the EE's in London. He repeated these and other experiments for 3 other groups during 3 or 4 years.

He says it does not matter which kind of generator it is, however I believe this was a dc generator because this was more common and he was still making the effort to be recognized. (These 4 lectures did have that effect.)
There is another drawing which describes the kind of circuits you can make and in this drawing 3 are dc and 3 are ac.
The dc ones were made alternating in that later description. (same lecture).

It is very interesting to read the transcripts from these lectures.
Many things become clear, but you must feel very relaxed about what you are doing this for.
Tesla backs up and backs up just to inform his listeners about the experiments he has made that have led to his present topic.
There is absolutely no way to speed read your way through it.

Personally I had the impression that in presenting the hairpin to the world, he was introducing the concept of  parallel electric lines and what the considerations would be when using them with AC.
He specifically states that these things are not possible with steady (dc)  currents.
I believe this hairpin demonstration was the forerunner to the modern house wiring. (and this is where he introduced the idea.)
From his detailed descriptions of what is new, we can learn many of the things that were accepted as normal back then which have since dropped out of our electric notions.

for what it is worth,

jeanna

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2010, 02:35:33 AM »
I will re-read your theory.

The hairpin circuit is clearly a transmitter though, the waveform may not be ideal, but sending bursts of DC constitutes an AM transmitter.

Through your posts, I can see that you wish to find the receiver rather than the sender, so to speak.  The one and the other seem the same...


Jadaro

The hairpin my  be a transmitter.......but right now it is the most practical way I have to learn the basics of radiant energy.

Fully understanding  radiant energy is the goal

Quote


You've referred to electrons in an excited state as becoming fluid; I think this is so, also, I would like to add that they may be thought of, with regard to how you have described them, as super-viscous and easier to manipulate.


I do not remember  that being part of what I said.
The idea fluid..... just doesn;t sit well with me.

I do think that the hyper electrons from the normal  electrons for the most part  behave  just  like  the normal electrons  we  are used to.

Quote

It's still unclear whether or not the source is AC ..the image Jeanna posted trivializes the device's generator ( which I think is the key to the whole source-idea ); this was done to simplify the patent filing I'm sure.


Most patents now  are writtren for those " skilled in the art "  in other words  experts in their fields ..... This is a way to hide certian details  that may otherwise make it to easy for your compatition to work  around the patant 
I agree that the generator  is  one of the main keys to this circuit .........and you would not  guess that from the drawing.

Quote

I want to know ( as well ) what's going on in the capacitors at the base of the rods, and how it's possible to create a difference between the two when their essentially sharing a base via a connecting rod.


Think  about a normal electrric circuit .......what happens when you disconnect the  power?
The electricity in the circuit disappears .......right?

In the  hairpin circuit  the same thing is happening
The  generator  pushes  the voltage  in the cap  up  high enough for the  electrons to jump  the spark gap.
The  electrons  suddenly jumping  the gap creates what Tesla called a disruptive discharge.   This  disruptive discharge is what shakes the hyper  electrons  out of their orbits.
There is a great deal  of power  in this disruptive discharge for a very short time........  in that short time the hyper electrons are swept through  the isolation  caps
At this point  the  great force of the disruptive discharge is no longer  pushing  the  hyper  electrons.......so they start to recombine  with atoms ......with a large wire  and not alot of force behind them.......they are pretty much gone by the time they reach the end of the rod on the other side ........so  as long  as you keep the descriptive discharge going....you have a  potential difference  across the bars 


Quote

There are some things which we can agree on, ..high voltage, electrons becoming more movable in this state, unusual effects.


I am not saying that  electrons  become more movable  at high vlotages.........I am saying that  there  are a second wave of electrons that is much smaller      ...... the electrons of electrons .

Quote

If someone could clarify why is this device is able to receive something more than it's transmitting?  ..otherwise it just appears to be creating a unified high voltage field which wants to ground out via attachments ( lights, etc )

I do not know that the hairpin  has ever  been  claimed to be OU.
It is  a circuit that I can use to learn about radiant energy .......


Quote
Trying to make sense of dozens of wires dangling all about makes things difficult to see what's hooked up where and in what way.  ( I've only self-registered this complaint though ).  8)

Yes I agree

that is one of the reasons I don't  post more of my circuits.
I have at least 2 dozen alligator clip leads .....I usually keep adding to my circuit  or trying to add feedback .......or something until I  run out of alligator clips........or totally confuse myself
If I  build it  and can't figure it out .........I am sure not  going to post it  and ask anyone else to  try.

:)


gary

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2010, 02:44:54 AM »
Jeanna

good point  about the wall power .

I had a strong urge to just throw something together and hit the switch...... don't worry the feeling passed........I am sane  again



I think we are on to something  too.

gary

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2010, 04:05:00 AM »
Jadaro
...
Fully understanding  radiant energy is the goal

I do not remember  that being part of what I said.
The idea fluid..... just doesn;t sit well with me.
...

It was more of a generalization.   ...I liken it to the notion that bullets and rocks can bounce off of water when at the correct angle.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2010, 07:06:26 AM »
It was more of a generalization.   ...I liken it to the notion that bullets and rocks can bounce off of water when at the correct angle.

And velocity.

Bill

Offline sparks

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2010, 07:45:54 AM »
Of course there is energy bound in the electron orbital as it is mass in motion.  When this angular momentum is converted to linear acceleration then we get current.  The trick to seperating the electron orbital momentum into usable current is to impose upon the atomic structure of an element or molecule a very polarized field of short duration.  Copper or anything that has an abundance of free electrons is unable to give us what we need and that is the conversion of bound electrons into free electrons.  Conductors have way too many free electrons to begin with.  Good for collision currents bad for atomic gains.  Tesla was getting his electron binding energies from nitrogen atoms. Copper is a good conductor but a bad scource element.
Another way to look at an electron is a standing wave.  This would be an oscillation with a defined wavelength nodes antidnodes harmonics etc.  The frequency of which must be exceedingly high due to the distance between the electron shell and the neucleus.  But if we are able to generate a really high energy photon of a very short wavelength this would disrupt the standing wave representation of the electron.  The electron standing wave density would become less dense with a resultant photon emission of greater intensity than that input by the scource ionizing radiation.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2010, 04:43:46 PM »
Hey Resman
In this picture, do you see anything familliar?

Mags

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2010, 05:20:38 PM »
Quote from: A link=topic=8572.msg220166#msg220166 A=1262846754
Of course there is energy bound in the electron orbital as it is mass in motion.  When this angular momentum is converted to linear acceleration then we get current.  The trick to seperating the electron orbital momentum into usable current is to impose upon the atomic structure of an element or molecule a very polarized field of short duration.  Copper or anything that has an abundance of free electrons is unable to give us what we need and that is the conversion of bound electrons into free electrons.  Conductors have way too many free electrons to begin with.  Good for collision currents bad for atomic gains.  Tesla was getting his electron binding energies from nitrogen atoms. Copper is a good conductor but a bad scource element.
Another way to look at an electron is a standing wave.  This would be an oscillation with a defined wavelength nodes antidnodes harmonics etc.  The frequency of which must be exceedingly high due to the distance between the electron shell and the neucleus.  But if we are able to generate a really high energy photon of a very short wavelength this would disrupt the standing wave representation of the electron.  The electron standing wave density would become less dense with a resultant photon emission of greater intensity than that input by the scource ionizing radiation.

you are using classical physics to describe an electron but electrons do not follow classical mechanics.

an electron is statically 'smeared' in its orbit it does not 'revolve' around an atom. it pretty much looks like a perfect soap bubble and multiple electrons around a complex atom looks like a soap bubble inside a soap bubble inside a soap bubble and on and on. this soap bubble can change shape according to pressure exerted on its field, only 'free' electrons can become point particles and or wave particles.

the only way to make bound electrons become point particles is to drop the temperature down to where the electron has little or no energy but then they tend to act as singularities and become BEC.

electrons are inherently lazy and won't do work unless you force them to do work. like with 'all' forms of energy, it only likes the path of 'least' resistance. this is the reason why electrons smear themselves around an atom is so they do not have to do work revolving around an atom such as that described in classical mechanics. they are lazy conservative slaves!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 06:35:42 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2010, 06:16:46 PM »
Hey Resman
In this picture, do you see anything familliar?

Mags

Mags

Is that  a picture of part of someones hairpin?

I see 2 HV caps  and a  sealed sparkgap like we talked about/

gary

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2010, 06:25:29 PM »
Hey Resman
Its a pic of Don Smiths device. I was hammered to see it.  I have been looking into the Bertonee transformers but no luck. I wanted to see what that bolt connection was. There are already 2 thick neon wires coming out, and I assume those are the output, but that terminal may be a gnd.   But it was interesting to see that there.
I hope it is a spark gap function.

Mags

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2010, 06:48:59 PM »
you are using classical physics to describe an electron but electrons do not follow classical mechanics.

an electron is statically 'smeared' in its orbit it does not 'revolve' around an atom. it pretty much looks like a perfect soap bubble and multiple electrons around a complex atom looks like a soap bubble inside a soap bubble inside a soap bubble and on and on. this soap bubble can change shape according to pressure exerted on its field, only 'free' electrons can become point particles and or wave particles.

the only way to make bound electrons become point particles is to drop the temperature down to where the electron has little or no energy but then they tend to act as singularities and become BEC.

electrons are inherently lazy and won't do work unless you force them to do work. like with 'all' forms of energy, it only likes the path of 'least' resistance. this is the reason why electrons smear themselves around an atom is so they do not have to do work revolving around an atom such as that described in classical mechanics. they are lazy slaves!

onthecuttingedge

I like the idea of electrons looking like bubbles ......but that does  bring up some questions.
You siad only free electrons  can become particles ........
Does this mean that the electron  is a wave when it is around the nucleus?
WHen  there are several electrons in the same orbet do they share the same bubble?
I understand  that the size of the orbit is determined by the energy level of the atom.  I also understand that  the orbits have set sizes.....there is a specific mumber of set orbits and nothing in between ......does  this mean that when an atom  gains or looses energy the  bubble bursts and reforms  at a different level?

I also do not know how any  of this stuff works with  my theory.... according to my theory  the hyper  electrons   would behave just like  normal electrons.......so they to would  be bubbles

As for  angular motion of mass  being transformed into energy ......that kind of flies out the window  with hyper electons or displacment current. .......they have no measurable mass........but they do have energy

gary

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2010, 06:54:39 PM »
Hey Resman
Its a pic of Don Smiths device. I was hammered to see it.  I have been looking into the Bertonee transformers but no luck. I wanted to see what that bolt connection was. There are already 2 thick neon wires coming out, and I assume those are the output, but that terminal may be a gnd.   But it was interesting to see that there.
I hope it is a spark gap function.

Mags

It would be great  if we could find somone with some experience using  them for  a hairpin

I have been looking for good hairpin videos......I will watch for them.


gary

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2010, 07:41:41 PM »
Quote from: resonanceman link=topic=8572.msg220307#msg220307 A=1262886539
onthecuttingedge

I like the idea of electrons looking like bubbles ......but that does  bring up some questions.
You siad only free electrons  can become particles ........
Does this mean that the electron  is a wave when it is around the nucleus?

yes, an electron is a 'static bubble wave' when in orbit around a nucleus.

Quote
WHen  there are several electrons in the same orbet do they share the same bubble?

I think they divide themselves smeary to form one bubble. they would emit some of their energy so their bubble membrane could be shared with another membrane.

Quote
I understand  that the size of the orbit is determined by the energy level of the atom.  I also understand that  the orbits have set sizes.....there is a specific mumber of set orbits and nothing in between ......does  this mean that when an atom  gains or looses energy the  bubble bursts and reforms  at a different level?

bursting of bubbles is a very good analogy for Quantum Mechanics, I believe it comes close to what actually happens. it is an energy bubble that bursts and reshapes itself into orbit.

Quote
I also do not know how any  of this stuff works with  my theory.... according to my theory  the hyper  electrons   would behave just like  normal electrons.......so they to would  be bubbles

this is quite common, not even Quantum Mechanics know why it works either, all they know is it just does, they about freaked out when they did the double slit experiment, somebody shot a wad that day.

Quote
As for  angular motion of mass  being transformed into energy ......that kind of flies out the window  with hyper electons or displacment current. .......they have no measurable mass........but they do have energy

gary

technically an electron should only be a sum of its parts when annihilated, Physics say that an electron is a fundimental particle even though it can be broken down into a simpler form from a positron to electron annihilation converted to Gamma Radiation.

below is what a single undisturbed hydrogen atom would look like if you could see it by itself and close up.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 08:05:02 PM by onthecuttingedge2005 »

Offline amigo

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2010, 05:10:55 AM »
Hello,

I read the thread and thought to post my observations.

To begin with, I am not sure GDTs will work well as spark gaps as they are made to provide surge protection when a spike occurs but not on a continuous basis as your application might require.

Has anyone actually looked at the spec sheet for them or the link that was posted (http://www.citel.us/gas_distcharge_tubes_overview.html) explaining their operation. Please note the four operating domains and also on the next page the fairly broad dynamic area. Both might be problematic in your configuration.

Also, you need to remember that you will be pulsing hundreds if not thousands of times per second. The physical limit GDT can withstand before a breakdown occurs needs to be determined...

In any case, as I have also been researching various spark gaps and contemplating building all kinds of evacuated tubes with gases (ie. Nitrogen), I stumbled upon a solid-state spark gap using a SIDAC.

Not sure if anyone has seen this one already, but it looks very sound, not to mention it has already been tested and worked out:

http://drsstc.com/~sisg/

(PDF: http://drsstc.com/~sisg/files/SISG.pdf)

Offline sparks

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #104 on: January 08, 2010, 12:51:38 PM »
     How can the electron be a bubble it is a point scource of charge.  It occupies no space. It messes with space. Just like a photon messes with space.  The basic premise of quantom mechanics is that the photon represents units of inertia.  E=mc2 basically says that energy is inertia.  When inertia or mass velocity is converted into photons it will follow Einsteins formula.  The electron in a 1s orbital has more massveloity than one in the valance or conductive bands ever thought of having.  The electron may be smeared into a bubble field but I assure you that bubble is not just floating.  It is spinning like a top at near the speed of light along two axis of rotation.  While spinning say east to west creating an axis running north to south it is quite easy for the inertial field to also be spinning north to south at the same time. Or the axis created by the first spin also spinning.
The precessional velocity equal to or greater than the east west spin.  The electron must spin through 720 degrees to return to its original position.  Physics professor once said this is counterintuitive.  Tell that to a pitching coach explaining how to throw a mean curve ball to a kid playing farm team baseball.  I always go with by intuition.  The brain runs subroutines and figures out alot of shit for us before we try to find reasons for feeling this way or that about a certain situation.  We already know the solutions.  I always go with my gut response.  99percent probablity that you are right. 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 01:12:00 PM by sparks »