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Author Topic: Hairpin Project  (Read 104859 times)

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2010, 04:29:56 PM »
Just wondering  if  anyone  is  planning on building the  solid state spark gap

I am looking into it......


gary

Offline jeanna

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2010, 11:10:21 PM »
Hi Gary,
I am not yet able to film this well.
I need to get another fixture from the hardware store, but I want to tell you what I have.

I have a JTC with a secondary that produces so much voltage that I can light a LoA bulb if I put one line of the secondary to the pos at the bottom of the bulb and the other line to the screw part around the edge of the bulb.
Then, there is enough left for an extension of the secondary lines to continue...(in Tesla's drawing it is up the pole a bit)... and an additional bulb will light from the extension of each line to the same 2 places of the second bulb.
They seem to share the voltage but when I use the circuit with 700 volts it lights both somewhat brighter than the one with 450v does.

My next plan is to get a toroid in a circuit that has at least 900v since I think these unmodified bulbs want that.

Ultimately, I would like to see 3 bulbs on one toroid and have a rheostat at the pos battery line to change the input voltage.

So, first to the hardware store, then to make or find another more powerful toroid.. I seem to have bad battery holder karma, so I hope RS has this month's order.
BBS

jeanna

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #122 on: January 09, 2010, 11:43:45 PM »
Hi Gary,
I am not yet able to film this well.
I need to get another fixture from the hardware store, but I want to tell you what I have.

I have a JTC with a secondary that produces so much voltage that I can light a LoA bulb if I put one line of the secondary to the pos at the bottom of the bulb and the other line to the screw part around the edge of the bulb.
Then, there is enough left for an extension of the secondary lines to continue...(in Tesla's drawing it is up the pole a bit)... and an additional bulb will light from the extension of each line to the same 2 places of the second bulb.
They seem to share the voltage but when I use the circuit with 700 volts it lights both somewhat brighter than the one with 450v does.

My next plan is to get a toroid in a circuit that has at least 900v since I think these unmodified bulbs want that.

Ultimately, I would like to see 3 bulbs on one toroid and have a rheostat at the pos battery line to change the input voltage.

So, first to the hardware store, then to make or find another more powerful toroid.. I seem to have bad battery holder karma, so I hope RS has this month's order.
BBS

jeanna

Jeanna

Sounds  great

What kind  of toroid  is that made with?



I have decided to try a few replications of your Jeanna light

I figure that making a few lights is a good way to practice making stronger JTs

Then  when I am ready I will  use  my strongest  JT for the hairpin.

Before I start building  I a hairpin I want to see what the books I have ordered have to say about it.


I  also want to study that sparkgap
There is a page that describes how it works
havn't had time to  read it yet.



gary

Edit

I did not hear anything more about your conical and the resonance thing
Have  you been able to get the same effect again?
I tried makind a couple conical coils ........ No luck with the resonance
As coreless JTs one of them made 16V

Offline Mk1

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2010, 12:12:25 AM »
@all

Check this ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark-gap_transmitter

Also i found those trigger coils they need to be pulsed at 300v and give out 10000 ...http://www.abra-electronics.com/products/catalog/H-V-Trigger-Transformers-p-4765.html

And if i remember correctly they do make some insulated spark gaps now ,
most likely less noisy ...

Offline jeanna

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2010, 12:26:11 AM »
Hi Gary,
First about the conical.
It is just a tricky thing to build, so I put it off.
Without any connection through the toroid there is just what you found.
But, if you connect the free wires the way I did, you get the amazing effect.
First you make a 6 turn secondary. It is not necessary to make it large, and it may be better even smaller than 6.
Then I am assuming you wound the cone with 2 wires all the way and then connect the end of one to the beginning of the other. Now, if you connect the top free wire from the cone to the end of the toroid secondary and measure the total thing, it is a ringing cone.

---
About these circuits.
I have been trying to make the perfect amount of turns in a secondary to light the LoA bulb, and with a TIP31 or TIP3055,  and about 110 turns around a tor-61 from allelectronics which is about .7 inch I get about 600 volts.
This is high and I reduced that to about 84 turns and got 400v.

It was after I made those and they were waiting for a AA battery holder, that you opened this thread.
Once you did that, I thought it might be better to make a high voltage toroid and put 3 in line and use a rheostat to modulate the brightness.
I can also change the base resistor, but at the moment, I will not change either of these circuits.
It is all a part of the experiment of course.
Have you seen Karl Palsness' video where he hangs one light in about the center, then puts another in various spots? The light in the middle always gets some amount dimmer.

From my other experiments earlier this year, I believe that it is possible to add a supporting inductor to each bulb, but that needs experimentation.

I agree with you.
Make a bunch and get the feeling for what to do when you want some effect.
That will inform all of us.

thank you,

jeanna

Offline Mk1

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2010, 12:27:30 AM »
some more

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2010, 01:29:14 AM »
MK1:

Thanks for the link on those trigger coils.  For $4.00 US to put in 300v and get out 10,000 is great!!!  The ones I have (from camera circuits) take in 300v and put out 4,000 only.  Just think of the fun we could have with 10,000 volts?????

Bill

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #127 on: January 10, 2010, 02:08:22 AM »
Hi Gary,
First about the conical.
It is just a tricky thing to build, so I put it off.
Without any connection through the toroid there is just what you found.
But, if you connect the free wires the way I did, you get the amazing effect.
First you make a 6 turn secondary. It is not necessary to make it large, and it may be better even smaller than 6.
Then I am assuming you wound the cone with 2 wires all the way and then connect the end of one to the beginning of the other. Now, if you connect the top free wire from the cone to the end of the toroid secondary and measure the total thing, it is a ringing cone.

---
About these circuits.
I have been trying to make the perfect amount of turns in a secondary to light the LoA bulb, and with a TIP31 or TIP3055,  and about 110 turns around a tor-61 from allelectronics which is about .7 inch I get about 600 volts.
This is high and I reduced that to about 84 turns and got 400v.

It was after I made those and they were waiting for a AA battery holder, that you opened this thread.
Once you did that, I thought it might be better to make a high voltage toroid and put 3 in line and use a rheostat to modulate the brightness.
I can also change the base resistor, but at the moment, I will not change either of these circuits.
It is all a part of the experiment of course.
Have you seen Karl Palsness' video where he hangs one light in about the center, then puts another in various spots? The light in the middle always gets some amount dimmer.

From my other experiments earlier this year, I believe that it is possible to add a supporting inductor to each bulb, but that needs experimentation.

I agree with you.
Make a bunch and get the feeling for what to do when you want some effect.
That will inform all of us.

thank you,

jeanna

Jeanna

I tried  all  the connections I could think of  with my conicals
I tried half a dozen coils .......I tried connecting the secondarys.......I even tried the primarys in series and in parallel 

I did  see that video
I have not looked into that kind of thing to know  for sure what is going on.....  very impressive though


````````````````````````````````````````

I think the first Jeanna light  I will try will  be with a flyback JT core.
JTs  I have made from them before have been some of my strongest.

I do not have any large toroids  yet ........so I will see what I can do with  maybe  3   5 for $1 toroids   then  maybe 5

I also have some E cores  I have been meaning  to try out.

gary

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #128 on: January 10, 2010, 02:21:24 AM »
MK1

Thanks for the links

That sparkgap  tube is really cool


If  I understand   right .......on a different thread they are using  similar trigger coils  as  receiver and transmitter coils for wireless transmission


gary

Offline sparks

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #129 on: January 10, 2010, 02:32:23 AM »
   A spark gap is a minny accelerator.  It has the plasma it should have the magnetic confinement which alot of folks are not getting because they are not placing the spark gap to respond to the magnetic field of the tank inductor.  This shortens the pulse and gets you into the proper frequency range to emit gamma radiation.  Gamma takes apart an atom like shooting a needle through a ballon.  Not to worry. The radioactive 1/2 life of nitrogen is measured in seconds.  Who needs uranium we got air. 

Offline jeanna

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2010, 04:54:59 AM »
Gary,
I went into my other computer and found the picture Tesla prepared for his patent on delivery of electric lighting in a home.
This is one of the hairpin circuits on its side.
This is my biggest reason for thinking the hairpin was the experiment behind what became dressed up as a patent
What do you think?

jeanna

Offline resonanceman

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #131 on: January 10, 2010, 05:17:07 AM »
Gary,
I went into my other computer and found the picture Tesla prepared for his patent on delivery of electric lighting in a home.
This is one of the hairpin circuits on its side.
This is my biggest reason for thinking the hairpin was the experiment behind what became dressed up as a patent
What do you think?

jeanna

Jeanna

It looks like it would function like a hairpin.

The question is.........what was Tesla planning?

A  spark gap and cap is not required  to power  a simple load.


gary

Offline sparks

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #132 on: January 10, 2010, 05:22:31 AM »
@Jeanna

     If you study Tesla he wants the whole transmission circuit to be in resonance and pickup the load at nodes and antinodes in the transmission system.  This way the tank remains in oscillation mode and the resistance is cut out of an RLC circuit.  The system just sits there and oscillates with input needed just for losses in the resonant circuit not work done by the circuit.  By inputting harmonics of the natural resonance of the transmission line the distance between nodes and antinodes can be adjusted.  At the present frequency used by the power companies your load would have to be capacitively coupled thousands of miles apart.  For all we know the power companies are using Teslas scheme and telling us they are producing all these megawatts when all they do is produce 10percent of what they are charging us for. 
They have been using pulsed dc for long transmission lines between portions of the grid but that is only to overcome the impedance losses because of the wire they used.  Cheaper to put up the conversion plants on either end than to replace the antiquated wires with coax designed for low frequency transmission.  DC goes just as far as ac with a lot less selfinductance losses due to the transmission of ac.  Edison was right.  It is just that high voltage dc converters were not available at the time so to overcome the line drop they would use a seperate run from the substations that were dc motor generator sets and very expensive.  Tesla designed an ac to dc converter but it never went into production because Westinghouse owned Tesla at the time.  This diode is capable of rectifying killowatts of power without thermal losses to heat sinks and all the rest of the losses nonlinear semiconductors are beseeched with.  Just iron and copper. 

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2010, 05:53:41 AM »
... Tesla designed an ac to dc converter but it never went into production because Westinghouse owned Tesla at the time.  This diode is capable of rectifying killowatts of power without thermal losses to heat sinks and all the rest of the losses nonlinear semiconductors are beseeched with.  Just iron and copper.

By "this diode" which diode do you specifically mean?

Offline jeanna

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Re: Hairpin Project
« Reply #134 on: January 10, 2010, 07:54:08 AM »
It looks like it would function like a hairpin.

The question is.........what was Tesla planning?

A  spark gap and cap is not required  to power  a simple load.
True,
I think this is the proposal that ended up as the wiring in our homes.


I have been getting lots of lighting tonight.
I even burned my fingers on the secondary.
It is hard to balance on my lap and table and take a pic, so I will clear things a bit tomorrow, and hopefully make a little video of one JT lighting 2 LoA bulbs. I did it today but my arm kept getting in the way, so I will go for a better one tomorrow.

@Sparks,
I think you are making too much of what Tesla was doing.
It is a lot simpler than what you are proposing.

In fact Tesla went into quite a bit of detail about how resonance was not at all what he wanted, and that many people thought it was the best thing to aim for and he said they would find it was not.

I was happy to find the cone gave me a  self tuning resonant circuit, but in fact, I have not been able to do as much with it as with the hum drum skinny spikes.

The thing I see  is that the voltage numbers we expect to use are way off.
It takes 450v minimum to light a cfl. This is 2-4 times as much just by the numbers, so we must get used to it.
I cannot light a neon with less than 190 v. I usually clarify and use the word spiky to show the difference.
I was surprised when I got stung by the secondary wire tonight, but at the time I was realizing that the circuit I was using was able to light the LoA bulb either way + to + , or + to -
This is another surprise and may be about how high the voltage is (~600-800v)

It is looking pretty good from here.
If I could only get around this component karma, it would be easy.
Now, I am thinking the croc leads are my biggest trouble... tonight anyway.

Ah well,

jeanna