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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: sirmikey1 on January 01, 2010, 03:25:10 PM

Title: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 01, 2010, 03:25:10 PM
Hi All,
  Found this on youtube, a resonate LCR Joule Thief circuit using one coil and an NPN and PNP transistor.  I's showing much less energy draw of the normal jewel theif.

Here's the video, and I've attached a schematic to this post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlMHlnK2DM

SM

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Tink on January 01, 2010, 05:31:17 PM
I very much doubt a white led will run with just one loop of wire.
I think the red led lights up because it is a direct connection to the 1.5 Volt source (red leds do light up at about 1.5 Volts you see!).
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 01, 2010, 05:55:39 PM
Most red led's the size he's using will run without the transistors at all.

On top of that, he seems to have things under the piece of paper, obscured from view.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: mscoffman on January 01, 2010, 06:26:09 PM

  Found this on youtube, a resonate LCR Joule Thief circuit using one coil and an NPN and PNP transistor.  I's showing much less energy draw of the normal jewel theif.


The Oscillator circuit is called a Complementary Transistor Multivibrator from digial fame.

:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 01, 2010, 06:57:00 PM
I just tested the circuit, it does work, I was able to light three led in parallel with it. ..I also used a diode and capacitor to measure voltage gain, the readout was 3.5V, it's consuming 8ma.

The led's didn't get very bright, but it does work - however, I had to drop the resistance down to 1k on the main resistor, and since I wasn't able to find 100pf cap, i had to use a 400pf, ..also, brightness seems to fluctuate with capacitance. ..more not always better.

Still not too sure about that one loop thing myself.

I think he's fooled himself with the red led.  I believe it will light without this circuit on a 1.5v source.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: crowclaw on January 01, 2010, 07:11:46 PM
I use a similar circuit and it's very useful either as a self oscillating boost circuit or driven by an external oscillator. I made a simple white led bedside lamp run from a single niMH 1.5v rechargeable cell some time back. The circuit is quite efficient and 10MA-20MA is typical, also ready available inductors can be used. I have attached a copy my design, as can be seen it's very similar. Merv.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: gadgetmall on January 01, 2010, 07:43:05 PM
I very much doubt a white led will run with just one loop of wire.
I think the red led lights up because it is a direct connection to the 1.5 Volt source (red leds do light up at about 1.5 Volts you see!).
This is a typical boost circuit . The one wire is actually an inductor . I have build several . The inductor looks like a resistor . most of them are light blue with color stripes indication the micro henerys . I posted a schematic way back in the Jt thread somewhere and made a nice Christmas led with a diffuser glob laster year . . Mine pulled about 8 mas still to high and higher than My latest normal jt using 2n2222a . It pulls 2 ma full power on a 1 volt battery lighting up a super bright 10mm white led PLUS charges a Super Cap . I found out by trial and error that component placement make a world of difference on both input and output  of the transistor . I made two Jts both with the same parts but put them in different locations and got  drastically different inputs and out puts . here is the video of My 2 ma  i gave to Groundloop  . I tried to make a duplicate but put the parts on different places ,same hook up and same parts but could not make the replicate draw less than 10 ma  :( so if you duplicate  i would recommend you put them in exactly the order i have in the z Video ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2VnPpvKdI
Gadget
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: tinu on January 01, 2010, 08:28:04 PM
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2VnPpvKdI


What’s going on is very simple imho.
You measure either 20-21 mA (or so) OR the voltage on open circuit, which is not relevant.
You need to measure both current AND voltage on the same load. In doing so you’ll see the voltage on the load is very small, close to zero.
So, input is 3mA x 1.2V = 3.6mW
Output is 21mA x ???V = ???mW
Output power is less than input power according to the knowledge we have up to date but even if we consider jt circuit as 100% efficiency, voltage on load shall be 3.6mW/21mA = 17mV. If the efficiency of jt is 80%, you should have 13-14mV on the load. Both values are consistent with a discharged cap.

I anticipate your further question: what if the cap was initially charged to a higher voltage (ie 1V or so)? Well, in that case the output current would have been much smaller. In fact, if you carefully analyze your movie, hopefully you can notice the output current is decreasing as you make the movie and that decrease is exactly because the voltage on the cap is slightly rising.

If you agree with the above (eventually after experimentally checking the explanation I gave), please update also the youtube description, as the reasoning about free energy is not applicable any longer.

Best regards,
Tinu
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: gadgetmall on January 01, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
What’s going on is very simple imho.
You measure either 20-21 mA (or so) OR the voltage on open circuit, which is not relevant.
You need to measure both current AND voltage on the same load. In doing so you’ll see the voltage on the load is very small, close to zero.
So, input is 3mA x 1.2V = 3.6mW
Output is 21mA x ???V = ???mW
Output power is less than input power according to the knowledge we have up to date but even if we consider jt circuit as 100% efficiency, voltage on load shall be 3.6mW/21mA = 17mV. If the efficiency of jt is 80%, you should have 13-14mV on the load. Both values are consistent with a discharged cap.

I anticipate your further question: what if the cap was initially charged to a higher voltage (ie 1V or so)? Well, in that case the output current would have been much smaller. In fact, if you carefully analyze your movie, hopefully you can notice the output current is decreasing as you make the movie and that decrease is exactly because the voltage on the cap is slightly rising.

If you agree with the above (eventually after experimentally checking the explanation I gave), please update also the youtube description, as the reasoning about free energy is not applicable any longer.

Best regards,
Tinu
Hello .Actually you cannot read "OPEN Circuits"  with an ampmeter . In my case the ampmeter is a dead short with 5.6 Ohms load across the transistor CE junction . The question is not IF the measurements are wrong . That was discussed as an ac ripple may still exist even thought i rectified the Ce junction with a germanium diode and adding to the voltage . The Proper Measurement will be done by the owner ,Groundloop of this rare JT . As stated in the comments the measurment for out put is a little off but not by much . Also you cannot read voltage in a dead short circuit so yea it will be Close to zero . The proper way to measute CURRENT  OUTPUT is to place a 1 or 100 ohm resistor ACROSS your meter and then it will be very close to accuratly reading the current . I cannot however understand that as an ampmeter it already has a SHUNT LOAD across the termanials of 5.6 ohms so this reading could be correct even with a 1 ohm resistor . And also i measured the input current which is 100% correct with or without a dead Short ampmeter . Simple put the Voltage measurements are there for the INPUT . the out don't matter as i was taking current measurements from out and showed volts in and current in .

Gadget
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: tinu on January 02, 2010, 02:56:42 AM
Usually common ammeters have higher shunt but if you’re sure yours is 5.6Ohm that’s fine with me. Yet, 5.6Ohm as compared to the impedance of a supercap is like open circuit, no matter how strange it may sound to you or to anyone else. Please experimentally check it on another jt you may have left and if you have reasons to correct me, post them inhere.

Ripples is another story that can contradict the claim contained in the title of the movie “Joule thief put more amps and volts out than in”. (And that’s a powerful claim; I have to disagree with it until it is SURE. Until you’re sure, letting it written the way it is will cause harm to the OU world and will be rightfully attacked by people.) However, given the experiment itself as presented, the explanation you’ve ask for is the one in my above post and the error simply resides in the measurement technique.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 02, 2010, 04:24:28 AM
.
.
EDIT:
The LEDs will not light with just the battery.  Not even faintly. 1.5v input and 3.6v output...

.
The reasoning about free energy is not applicable any longer.

Tinu,
   Mad rush, I agree that it's titled poorly.  Any suggestions?  Ran across this circuit yesterday as one Lidmotor had just favorited on youtube.  Just stuffed it into my mental database after duplication.  I tried all sorts of big fat LEDs. 

   I'm leaning towards Tesla's magnifying transmitter, and this seems to line up with resonating against precharged items in order to peak or magnify, to climb on top of the initial wave (bounce and build).   
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geYfUHh6nD8

   Also related, Lidmotors youtube duplication of the Davro Radiant SEC 4kv trigger coil. He's now lighting small items wirelessly, and the larger items with wires to the oscillating aluminum plates.  I heard someone say that the 4kv trigger coil's frequency is appropriate for for SEC (radiant).  I'm ordering one of these coils tonight.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rzw4FRovnI

Error simply resides in the measurement technique.

Ahh, things are all moving at the speed of light here ;)  and what if he's tapped into it...

Quote Lindemann: Tesla said in patents that there are 2 different types of particles.  One is electron, other is aether. If you block electron via a super fast charge gap with over 1 million cycles and 100KV then cold electricity appear from the pure flux of aether. No electron can go that fast. So the thing is to purify the electron from the aether. This can be done only via a spark with smaller duration than 10mhz. So all your circuits are useless in this realm.

SM
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 02, 2010, 05:35:53 AM
@ sirmikey1

I'm ordering one of these coils tonight.

Where are you ordering trigger coil from? Can you provide link to a data sheet? This seems like a very interesting item.

EDIT: OK I have figured out what these things are. They are just the transformers used to step up the pulse voltage for xenon flash tubes. I have found several sources.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: david7630274 on January 02, 2010, 07:57:29 AM
I very much doubt a white led will run with just one loop of wire.
I think the red led lights up because it is a direct connection to the 1.5 Volt source (red leds do light up at about 1.5 Volts you see!).
Tell me where to buy this miracle red LED that runs on 1.5V.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: david7630274 on January 02, 2010, 08:11:25 AM
I just tested the circuit, it does work, I was able to light three led in parallel with it. ..I also used a diode and capacitor to measure voltage gain, the readout was 3.5V, it's consuming 8ma.

The led's didn't get very bright, but it does work - however, I had to drop the resistance down to 1k on the main resistor, and since I wasn't able to find 100pf cap, i had to use a 400pf, ..also, brightness seems to fluctuate with capacitance. ..more not always better.

Still not too sure about that one loop thing myself.

I think he's fooled himself with the red led.  I believe it will light without this circuit on a 1.5v source.
Try 1000 microH for the coil. It will light up the LED super bright. But you must absolutely positively use 100pFarad. Other values will not be as bright. BTW, I don't think I fooled myself with the red LED. If  you can find a miracle red LED that lights on 1.5V let me know.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 02, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
Where are you ordering trigger coil from? Can you provide link to a data sheet? This seems like a very interesting item.

xee2,

  Mouser.com has a 4kv and a 6kv for just a  few bucks.  The goldmine-elec-products.com coil looks too small, tiny, and so I passed that one up.  I'm also wanting a big ferrite ring  :o  Any newbies may also be interested in this item, cheap breadboard kits with sacks of all common circuit parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/NightFire-Electronic-Kits__W0QQ_scZ1QQ_sidZ22293525QQ_sopZ3?_nkw=breadboard+kit&submit=Search (http://stores.ebay.com/NightFire-Electronic-Kits__W0QQ_scZ1QQ_sidZ22293525QQ_sopZ3?_nkw=breadboard+kit&submit=Search)

   David, thanks for joining in.  Just ignore the negs and stay focused.

Edit: my meter wont read induction.  Anyone know how to read the values by the markings?  Bigger is better...

1. MEDIUM BRIGHT 2371131900
2. MEDIUM BRIGHT 2371130600
3. VERY BRIGHT     2371131500
4. VERY BRIGHT     2371130400

Mikey   

     

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Tink on January 02, 2010, 06:12:02 PM
I very much doubt a white led will run with just one loop of wire.
I think the red led lights up because it is a direct connection to the 1.5 Volt source (red leds do light up at about 1.5 Volts you see!).

This is a typical boost circuit . The one wire is actually an inductor . I have build several . The inductor looks like a resistor . most of them are light blue with color stripes indication the micro henerys . I posted a schematic way back in the Jt thread somewhere and made a nice Christmas led with a diffuser glob laster year . . Mine pulled about 8 mas still to high and higher than My latest normal jt using 2n2222a . It pulls 2 ma full power on a 1 volt battery lighting up a super bright 10mm white led PLUS charges a Super Cap . I found out by trial and error that component placement make a world of difference on both input and output  of the transistor . I made two Jts both with the same parts but put them in different locations and got  drastically different inputs and out puts . here is the video of My 2 ma  i gave to Groundloop  . I tried to make a duplicate but put the parts on different places ,same hook up and same parts but could not make the replicate draw less than 10 ma  :( so if you duplicate  i would recommend you put them in exactly the order i have in the z Video ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2VnPpvKdI
Gadget

Gadgetmall,
The man said in his movie "one turn of insulated wire", he meant that his super Joule-thief will also work with a one turn of insulated wire as an aircore coil.
I do agree with you that just one loop of wire is in fact a coil, what I find hard to believe is that his circuit will oscilate at a frequency of some 400 or more MegaHertz.
I think that his one loop of wire just works as a direct connection to the red led and his oscilator circuit doesn't oscilate at all.
It will work with normal coils though as he has stated.

Tell me where to buy this miracle red LED that runs on 1.5V.

David7630274,
Calling me a liar?
Red leds do light up with just a normal 1.5 Volt battery without a series resistor needed (although not very bright).
Since I have some 700 red leds laying about you can buy them from me, but of course these leds are magical so I will charge you 10 Euros a piece.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: tinu on January 02, 2010, 07:54:25 PM
Tinu,
   Mad rush, I agree that it's titled poorly.  Any suggestions?
...
My suggestion? Definitely to change the title (AND the description, where applicable). Something like “Hopefully…” or “It seems that…” or maybe “I had an OU dream” will do it.

...
Ahh, things are all moving at the speed of light here ;)  and what if he's tapped into it...

Quote Lindemann: Tesla said in patents that there are 2 different types of particles.  One is electron, other is aether. If you block electron via a super fast charge gap with over 1 million cycles and 100KV then cold electricity appear from the pure flux of aether. No electron can go that fast. So the thing is to purify the electron from the aether. This can be done only via a spark with smaller duration than 10mhz. So all your circuits are useless in this realm.

SM

It may well be. But it needs to be proved.
See, I know for sure (please don’t argue with me) that aether is made of tiny tiny peanuts. But for some reason I still can’t get peanut butter out of it.  ;)

Best regards,
Tinu
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit"
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 02, 2010, 09:35:49 PM
David,

  Where did this circuit come from?  Is it the BEMF lighting the LEDs?  Do you understand the circuit enough that you can explain the oscillation and output source to me, please?   

  Gadgetmall, Tink or Tunu, you guys are somewhat correct about our measurements. The bigger brighter coils draw more current.  Doubled my previous draw. Something to do with specific or clarity in frequency? 

   This video is titled "LIGHTNING MAKER", he's got this huge spark gap going with a 1.5volt battery, and no collector tube.  We are getting so close (current magnification).  KV from a AA battery, 5 hour run time.  Huge white spark, needs a precharged electrophorus collector tube.       
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGJKtYbGLw4

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 03, 2010, 12:14:35 AM
mikey
if you will follow my posts in the joule thief section you will see the schematic
for the hv from a AA battery and watch my videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/koolerization (http://www.youtube.com/user/koolerization)
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 03, 2010, 01:47:53 AM
I took some frequency measurements on my replication of this circuit, I was surprised to see that the pnp transistor isn't switching on and off, but the circuit won't work without it.

I think it's strange that there's no path C-E, ..0.L on the meter during operation.

Frequencies across C-E on the pnp are around 25kHz.... a recent test with a switch on the pnp transistor and i still get no frequency reading on the PNP and on the NPN, I get 11kHz.

It should be noted, in the original diagram at the beginning of the thread, that it appears as though the C and E junction on the PNP transistor have been mislabeled, although this doesn't make a difference for some transistors, it will on others.  I noticed much better results when flipping the transistor around.

david7630274, the circuit is more flexible than stated, actually.

I stand firm on my red led theory, regardless of whether or not the particular one in question is a 1.5V light or not, the fact is that most RED led's don't consume nearly as much power as others, just as well, there are in fact 1.5V led's available., 3mm die types I think.  I don't feel like arguaing about the red light though, the circuit does work!

Moving on! ...It would be interesting to figure a way out to get a secondary on this thing, limit the cross-current - ..perhaps another inductor, and a large capacitor between the two.  I keep getting the washtub image.

It may be advisable to redraw the circuit diagram, it's crowded, and things are running over themselves, and the CE mismatch ( unless someone has a negative resistance idea they want to expound upon ).
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 02:57:11 AM
Jadaro,

  Your freq values look like full wave and then half wave rectification caused by the transistor diodes.  Is the pnp pulsing the npn? 

   With one joule thief running, testing two coils, I get 21khz with one and  58khz with the other.  If I crank up the old JT beside it, the values change to 10khz and 78khz.  Atmosphere has everything to do with it.   

  Koolerization, I made comment on your AA KV video that you might use one spark to pulse another coil/spark, creating fat hairy spurred/spiked white Tesla sparks.

Hail Tesla...
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: gadgetmall on January 03, 2010, 03:17:35 AM
Gadgetmall,
The man said in his movie "one turn of insulated wire", he meant that his super Joule-thief will also work with a one turn of insulated wire as an aircore coil.
I do agree with you that just one loop of wire is in fact a coil, what I find hard to believe is that his circuit will oscilate at a frequency of some 400 or more MegaHertz.
I think that his one loop of wire just works as a direct connection to the red led and his oscilator circuit doesn't oscilate at all.
It will work with normal coils though as he has stated.

David7630274,
Calling me a liar?
Red leds do light up with just a normal 1.5 Volt battery without a series resistor needed (although not very bright).
Since I have some 700 red leds laying about you can buy them from me, but of course these leds are magical so I will charge you 10 Euros a piece.
Your Exactly Right Tink and i have several red leds that will operate on less than 1.5 volts actually they run red at 0.8 volts . They are Clear and easily light with a piece of copper wire and and galvanizes nail stuck in the dirt :) They are precious little jewels  but as you said you don't need a Jt to run them at all .
Gadget
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 03, 2010, 03:46:06 AM
@ jadaro2600

It would be interesting to figure a way out to get a secondary on this thing

Attached drawing may work. I have not tested it.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 03, 2010, 04:42:31 AM
Jadaro,

  Your freq values look like full wave and then half wave rectification caused by the transistor diodes.  Is the pnp pulsing the npn? 

   With one joule thief running, testing two coils, I get 21khz with one and  58khz with the other.  If I crank up the old JT beside it, the values change to 10khz and 78khz.  Atmosphere has everything to do with it.   

  Koolerization, I made comment on your AA KV video that you need to use one spark to pulse another coil/spark, creating fat hairy spurred Tesla sparks.

Hail Tesla...
Mikey

I'll see what other measurements I can take, but I've had little results with the numbers.  I'm going to attempt to use a mated transformer and see what happens. ..I was able to replace the path from the negative side of the LED with a capacitor, and have it light, it was dim though..

In other words, I place a capacitor-led in series and connect that way and it seems to function at a lower level.

@ jadaro2600

Attached drawing may work. I have not tested it.
I just tested with some interesting results...I used this paired inductor I found from a box of scraps, it's just two coils, side by side, as you have in your diagram.  I reposted, ..it seems that the circuit will operate with one side of the capacitor connected to nothing, ..just ambient, I wonder what would happen if the other side were connected to an antenna?

The circuit works as you posted it, I just posted my observation.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 05:08:33 AM

xee2,

   I wired your mod exactly (no R2), "SUCCESSFUL".  This wiring is much cleaner than the orginal JT circuit which was pumping voltage into both coils, had the bifillars connected.  The only neg here is the two extra parts, but it's worth it to me just to have the secondary working like a transformer. 

MA INPUT: 26ma
MA OUTPUT 6.5ma
Out Voltage: 2.5V DC with identical primary/secondary coils (bifilar).
Frequency 100khz at LED leads.  \
 
  I hear that 20 turns primary with 200 turns secondary does much better. That 4kv trigger coil is probably the think to do:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=4kv+trigger

EDIT:
Jadaro,
  That mod does not oscillate for me, oscillator as antenna.  Please double check your wiring, just for peace of mind.

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 03, 2010, 05:56:05 AM
  I hear that 20 turns primary with 200 turns secondary does much better. That 4kv trigger coil is probably the think to do:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=4kv+trigger

Yes, 20:200 should give higher output voltage. That is the advantage of having a secondary. The secondary does not have to have two coils, the trigger coils should work also (however I have some concern over the high resistance of the coils you referenced above but I think they should work).

EDIT: drawing modified
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 09:32:37 AM
Hi all,
    Does anyone know what type ferrite to buy?  There's a few dozen different types.  I'm seeing type 25, 28 43, and 47 on ebay, so far.
Thanks in Advance,
MIkey 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 03, 2010, 10:18:20 AM
Hi all,
    Does anyone know what type ferrite to buy?  There's a few dozen different types.  I'm seeing type 25, 28 43, and 47 on ebay, so far.
Thanks in Advance,
MIkey

If you are going to make a transformer for the Joule thief, you should use high permeability material.

Note that I modified the diagram to match the spec sheet for the trigger coil you referenced above. Those coils seem to be the equivalent of mini ignition coils.

 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 12:04:15 PM
xee2,
  Are you "off the grid" yet? Thanks for all, very helpful. 
Mikey
 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 07:38:02 PM
Hi all,
  Slayer just sent me this, Jeanna's youtube site.  http://www.youtube.com/user/jeannacav
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: david7630274 on January 03, 2010, 08:06:12 PM
Here's  an idea you may want to consider. If you can get your hands on a transformer 110v to 9v, connect the output to the pri (9V) side and see if you can step up the voltage and light up a neon bulb. If you set it up right you will get a mild shock on the secondary(110v) side.  :o
David7630274
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 03, 2010, 09:55:39 PM
@ sirmikey1

What transistors are you using?

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 10:08:20 PM
   Jeanna has added many secondaries, useful for lighting every room of the house using one Joule Thief. 

Her Schematic Attached
SM
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 03, 2010, 10:12:43 PM
xee2,

2n4401 NPN EBC General Purpose
2n4403 PNP EBC

  I can also run to radio shack if needed...

Thanks,
SM
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 03, 2010, 11:30:40 PM
I did a quick test of circuit. It will light neon and it looks like it may be putting out AC (I can not really tell since I do not have a scope).

EDIT: I used an ignition coil, but I think it will work with the xenon trigger coils also. The small ignition coil I used had a primary resistance of 0.7 ohms, a coil with higher primary resistance may not work as well.


Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 04, 2010, 03:35:23 AM
Another test. I think this will be my last, then I will go back to other things.

This circuit was able to light a string of 25 LED Christmas tree lights using only 4 mA from an AAA battery. They are not very bright but they are all lit. If a D cell was used they would stay lit a long, long, time. Note 1 meg resistor. Photo is video frame grab, not long exposure.

EDIT: A D cell is rated at 12,000 ma-hrs. 12000/4=3000 hrs or 125 days running continuously.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 04, 2010, 04:00:40 AM
you doing alot better than me on this circuit
i had 5 leds catching bemf from a inductor
to get them bright i was pulling almost 35 ma

you da man xee2

this might be a good circuit for the tpu guys to make a rotating mag field for their res coil
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 04, 2010, 04:11:06 AM
@ kooler

I feel that the main advantage is the ability to light LEDs dimly for a very, very, long time. The kind of thing Jeanna is always trying to do.



Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 04, 2010, 05:08:05 AM
xee2,

   Thank you so much for your mods to the chilliqueen JT circuit. This has really made a world of difference for me, independent secondary(s), A/C.  Chilliqueen contacted me earlier, wanted your mods; and I also sent them to Jeanna ;) 

SM
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 04, 2010, 05:28:25 AM

One more interesting circuit. Lighting a neon with only 4 mA using the 1 meg resistor.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 04, 2010, 05:43:47 AM
@ sirmikey1

xee2,

   Thank you so much for your mods to the chilliqueen JT circuit. This has really made a world of difference for me, independent secondary(s), A/C.  Chilliqueen contacted me earlier, wanted your mods; and I also sent them to Jeanna ;) 

SM

I am glad I was some help. Please post your results when you get parts to build your circuits.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 04, 2010, 01:47:13 PM
Udate on the original chilliqueen Joule thief. I have the regular JT running with the Chilliqueen on the same AA battery for days now, and the Chilliqueen died out while the regular JT is still very bright.  Obviously takes more energy to oscillate,  or may be the cap.  Xee2's mods may be different.

Also, I found ferrite toroids on mouserj.com:

 61mm for $5 and 23mm for 75cents with no minimums.

################
Wurth Ferrite Toroid Cores
################

22.5mm Toroid (type W is high-medium perm)
Size/Spec 22.5   13.8   6.4   45   133   187   398   =13.3   3 W 800
Mouser #:    710-74270119    
Mfr. #:    74270119
Desc.:    EMI/RFI Suppressors & Ferrites Z=133ohms @ 100Mhz
RoHS:    RoHS Compliant
Ships Now
$0.74


61mm toroid  Type W
Size/Spec 61.0   35.5   12.7   64   133   323   680   =33.4   4 W 620
Mouser #:    710-74270097    
Mfr. #:    74270097
Desc.:    EMI/RFI Suppressors & Ferrites Z=133ohms @ 100Mhz
RoHS:    RoHS Compliant
Ships Now
$5.86   

sM 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 04, 2010, 03:53:50 PM
Pushing it to the limits. This circuit uses only 0.1 mA to blink a neon or LEDs. A 1.5 volt "D" cell flashlight battery is rated at 12,000 mA-hr. Dividing 0.1 mA into 12,000 yields a run time of 12000/.1/24/365 = 13.7 years. Of course the battery will probably leak before that. Three videos of this circuit on YouTube at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKEPhnCxsqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc_PGdwTTEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpMmvY4JOpE


EDIT: If using LED also use a 1N4007 diode in series with the LED to prevent the LED from being damaged by the reverse voltage.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 04, 2010, 04:32:43 PM
zee2,

  Good work!

   Watching Jeanna's many secondaries video, it just occurred to me, a solid state motor / generator.   Three phase a/c Joule thief set up and running circles like a three phase motor armature on a torroid and then the outer pickup coil (secondary) wrapped around the whole thing.  Steven Mark?   
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 04, 2010, 05:33:03 PM
xee2,

EDIT: chilliqueen circuit is no joule thief.  Stopped around 5am today, and the Joule thief is on the same battery  and still going, . Still going fairly strong.  Chilliqueen is obviouly not pumping kicking out the Joules 

  Jeanna's getting 170volts from her little torroid.  Lid says he's pumping that A/C into a rectifier, and then puts it across a spark gap to pulse an ignition coil;;; and this is creating monster sparks.  Thick Spikey thorny sparks. 

   The heavy sparks are probably good for the big stuff; motors and heating.     

   Reminds me of Steven Mark videos, he was inserting a little button cell battery to kick it off ???   

Mike East
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: crowclaw on January 04, 2010, 10:15:07 PM
Here's  an idea you may want to consider. If you can get your hands on a transformer 110v to 9v, connect the output to the pri (9V) side and see if you can step up the voltage and light up a neon bulb. If you set it up right you will get a mild shock on the secondary(110v) side.  :o
David7630274

Hi David,

This transformer idea is OK for low frequencies, you transformer is designed to operate at 60 Hz hence the laminated metal core.  JT's etc are high frequency oscillators, the core materials are ferrite.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: stprue on January 04, 2010, 10:18:00 PM
xee2,

EDIT: chilliqueen circuit is no joule thief.  Stopped around 5am today, and the Joule thief is on the same battery  and still going, . Still going fairly strong.  Chilliqueen is obviouly not pumping kicking out the Joules 

  Jeanna's getting 170volts from her little torroid.  Lid says he's pumping that A/C into a rectifier, and then puts it across a spark gap to pulse an ignition coil;;; and this is creating monster sparks.  Thick Spikey thorny sparks. 

   The heavy sparks are probably good for the big stuff; motors and heating.     

   Reminds me of Steven Mark videos, he was inserting a little button cell battery to kick it off ???   

Mike East

Like GK said, monster sparks are probably from a stun gun circuit!
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 05, 2010, 03:00:45 AM
Like GK said, monster sparks are probably from a stun gun circuit!

  This has all been one heck of a show, so far.  Looked at some stun-gun circuits...  yea exactly that's what Lid is doing with the Lightning Maker; though he may not yet realize it.  Brings back some memories. 

  What, is the stun gun soon to replace the motor/generator armature? 

Mikey
 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 05, 2010, 07:03:36 AM
mikey
you must not read ...
if you look at my schematic in the jt section ,,.. it says strobe/ stungun circuit  and if you (read) lidmotors info on his video it says '' The project was inspired by "Kooler's" ideas and Tesla coil designs '' but chances are you won't see this... since you don't (read)
i just playing with you anyway..haha

xee2
i found something really weird to me... i made the circuit you posted but with a 0.47 cap and a 55 k resistor
well no load it pulls 56.4 ma but....... with a load it shows 3.83ma  ( the load being a neon half bright 78 volts )
and it runs at 1181.3 hz
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 05, 2010, 11:29:09 AM
Kooler,

  Hello and great to meet you. Thanks for the heads-up, the 3ma neon. Yea, didn't catch that earlier, had my head into the original here. Threshold, the original here crashes sooner, wont JT.     

   I've now got the original joule thief powering the xee2 joule thief with that dead battery. Bright...

Thanks,
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 05, 2010, 11:46:06 PM
@ kooler

Here is something else you may be interested in, neon lit with only one wire.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 06, 2010, 12:34:52 AM
mikey
its good to meet you sir... i like to joke alot...so try not to take me to wrong way..please

xee2
yes i have used the 100pf cap and got some sparks with it and lit the neon with one wire
but i am using this transformer
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16821 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16821)
i been forced to use my bread board due to the elements outside...12 degrees at night
''darn global warming''
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 06, 2010, 12:56:08 AM
@ kooler

Guess what. I ordered 2 of those yesterday. They should get here in a few days. The ignition coil should work better since it has a lower primary resistance (thus more current from the 1.5 volt battery). But tests will tell.



Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 06, 2010, 01:14:41 AM
xee2
a ign coil does work better... i got one of these in a grab box from goldmine.. you can get all kind of weird stuff in those boxes
i got a rc car last time.. but i had to fix it...!
i still trying to get the nerve back up to work on my other circuit...
so this is a break away till then
i think this is a kool circuit that chilliqueen got here
i think i might have thought of some real good uses for it....
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 06, 2010, 05:13:27 AM
You guys be sure and watch JonnyDarvo 's mod/replication video on this, the Chilliqueen Circuit.  Everyone is getting similar results, very little current draw; lots of SEC; and best powered by the original Joule Thief...

JonnyDarvo's Video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 06, 2010, 05:46:47 AM
JonnyDarvo's circuit is very impressive. Here is a xee2 super Joule thief circuit that puts more power into coil. Will light fluorescent tube with 1.5 volt battery. I think a trigger coil will work also, but I do not have one to try. This mod should improve his performance. I tried to log into his thread but the forum he is on will not allow me to post there.



Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 06, 2010, 06:15:43 AM
if we keep adding transistors soon we will have us a led work light... 4 real
i torn a part a 60 led rechargable work light (batterys went bad) it had 1 transistor for every two leds... it also had 6 batterys in it for 3 volts and around 10,000 mah i think

just to keep you thinking..??
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 06, 2010, 06:56:12 AM
xee2,
    I thinkt that Lid and Jonny are using the strobe ignition coil from mouser, search "4kv trigger" and it comes right up.  I ordered several a few days ago; and they also have 61mm toroids for $6 and 22.5mm for 75 cents. MFG is "Wurth".  Just search their online virtual catalog. 

Im thinking that the ferrite rods are going to do best.  it may be best to stack the coils all along the same magnetic pole, axial plane, for maximum kick. May stack several pairs primary/secondary, primary/secondary and pulse all primaries at once, all into one rectifier; along with every bemf possible. 

  It's midnight here; and this is off topic, but quite a story to tell.  This morning around 6am, I was laying in bed floating in and out of sleep, and suddenly I hear this very loud viscious wolf growling very angry.  I nearly jumped out of my skin.   Oh well, my grandmother must have been praying again ;)...  Dead serious though....

Mikey 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 06, 2010, 07:51:56 AM
@ kooler

if we keep adding transistors soon we will have us a led work light... 4 real
i torn a part a 60 led rechargable work light (batterys went bad) it had 1 transistor for every two leds... it also had 6 batterys in it for 3 volts and around 10,000 mah i think

just to keep you thinking..??

It is only one more part.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 06, 2010, 05:45:14 PM
smirkey, very strange, i had the same dream a few months ago..  but I later chalked it up to snoring.

I was also once woken by a very loud, audible turkey gobble - I have no explanation for this however.

- - - - -
You guys be sure and watch JonnyDarvo 's mod/replication video on this, the Chilliqueen Circuit.  Everyone is getting similar results, very little current draw; lots of SEC; and best powered by the original Joule Thief...

JonnyDarvo's Video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A

Mikey
I think this version of the JTC is turning out to be quite interesting, the video posted is very interesting, I would like some clarification on what a kv switch is though ( how is that working internally with regard for the circuit in question? ) ..and by doing so, obviously I would be creating a transmitter, wouldn't this violate some law?..or peace of mind?

I know this is rather backwards thinking, but I know how much of a hassle that rouge transmissions can be, those XM radio rebroadcasts from receiver to car radio are always butting in on my favorite channel ( and down here is twangy country interrupting my light rock ).
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 06, 2010, 11:16:38 PM
This may sound strange but ever since I built my Jeanna Light replication I have been getting random aircraft radio transmissions on my computer speakers.  My light does not have to be on and may (probably) has nothing to do with it but, the first few times it happened, I thought I was losing my mind.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 07, 2010, 12:58:09 AM
I would like some clarification on what a kv switch is though ( how is that working internally with regard for the circuit in question? ) ..and by doing so, obviously I would be creating a transmitter, wouldn't this violate some law?..or peace of mind?

  Description says "strobe light trigger coil" or ignition coil. 

Mikey   
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 07, 2010, 06:10:22 AM
xee2,
    What did the darlington do as far as additional load on the circuit?  Is there some way to add the jt function back into this circuit? I found a much clearer JT illustration, attached, if that will help. Is the JThieving actually the bemf biasing/amping through the NPN, goosing the AA bat? 
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 07, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
@ sirmikey1

I do not understand your questions. If you are asking about how the JT works check here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8341.0
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 07, 2010, 08:27:26 AM
I think a regular JT could not light this LED as bright using only 2 ma. But, this circuit is not as easy to build and make work as a regular JT so I do not think it is a good choice for someone just starting to make Joule thiefs.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: pese on January 07, 2010, 02:43:10 PM
pls use at first transistor only an small signal transistor
that will normally used for 1-100ma currents.

NOT ANY power transistor wil work properly
in the avove circuits, because hiher leackage currents,
and no any "gain amplifation" is testet or garanteed at such smal base currents that are used in this circuit.  the gain can degressed daramtacally lorer from (exampel) 50 @ 1 Amp..
it can be  2 @ 1mA !!

NOT ANY CICUIT that have workes (such way) at the "inventor"
must work, wuth your components wit same types of semiconductor - (This was 40 jears my job, to work and develop such
cicuits - so pleas give attention to select your components for
fine application in "The working applications voaltages amperages (conditions)  and power .
Gustav Pese
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 07, 2010, 06:47:03 PM
xee2,
    What did the darlington do as far as additional load on the circuit?  Is there some way to add the jt function back into this circuit? I found a much clearer JT illustration, attached, if that will help. Is the JThieving actually the bemf biasing/amping through the NPN, goosing the AA bat? 
Mikey

In this circuit, the light is produced as a result of the oscillation in the inductor when the resistor is connected to the base; the voltage gained is converted to light - this boost only serves to overcome the voltage necessary to produce light.

During the time when the transistor is off, the voltage increases and a path from positive to negative is created with higher than original voltage potentials.

Over all, i think the LED to be watt-volt oriented, when current can be substantially, yet proportionally cut back to a minimum.  The idea would be to use same wattage or less, but higher voltage - because voltage is easier to boost than current.

edited: corrections
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: gauschor on January 07, 2010, 08:13:11 PM
Don't know if it helps, but I replicated the Joule Thief from the schemata on the very first page of this topic. Works really good :). I had no 100pf capacitor, therefore I took a 6,8 nF. 1 winding was not enough then, and I found out the more windings I used the better the result was. 200-450 windings on thin wire showed a nice glowing LED :).
Since the Joule Thief works with Voltage peaks from the collapsing magnetic field only, I wonder if it would be possible to catch these 'Overunity' peaks otherwise and send it somewhere else...? (Maybe feed the battery again?...)
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 08, 2010, 06:48:06 AM
xee2,

  The primary bemf is not being fed back through and amped like the orig jt.  That's what makes it a JT.  It's not going to add load to the circuit, cause it's bemf.  Your meter may show higher load, but it's BEMF, and so it's not coming from the battery.  That's a real brain teaser....

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: slayer007 on January 08, 2010, 05:35:17 PM
Here is my version of Chilliqueen's circuit.
I added a 10Kv trigger transformer for the inductor and removed the capacitor.
Then I added one of DR Stiffler's towers to the base of the pnp transistor.

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_dl-EUy4pQ

Thanks to Chilliqueen,Jonnydavro,Lidmotor and Dr Stiffler.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 08, 2010, 08:07:10 PM
Hi slayer007

Thanks for the post. Your circuit performance is fantastic. What transistors are you using?



Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: slayer007 on January 08, 2010, 08:19:43 PM
Hi slayer007

Thanks for the post. Your circuit performance is fantastic. What transistors are you using?

Thanks Xee2

I'm using a 2n3906 and a 2n2222.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 08, 2010, 08:24:24 PM
for sirmikey1 (response to PM)

This is the basic set up I use to measure Joule thief input current and output voltage. You can not just hook the output up to a voltmeter because the voltage coming out of the pickup coil is pulsed and DVMs are made to work with steady input voltages. The diode and capacitor make a peak detector that allows the voltmeter to read the peak pulse voltage.


Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 09, 2010, 12:04:45 AM
Slayer's got one wire SEC, but here is what Darvo did for wireless:

Quote from his comments: "Mike, I had a little play with chilliqueens circuit and added a trigger coil a bit different how xee had it and got it working like Dr stifflers SEC.I have also now added an ariel(just acroc lead connected to a pan) to the base of the npn transistor and the lights are brighter.It will light a neon continously using just a 1.5v battery but if i power it with a 1.5v battery powered mobile phone charger it works great and can light neons all over the place especially from the base of the npn to output pan and also from base/npn to reciever pans and battery connections. Here is a vid. Thanks for letting me know about this great circuit.Cheers jonny"

Darvo also explains at 1:45 time on the video; adding another trigger coil to the "receiver" (wireless end) pan. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A

I have already emailed Darvo, asking for drawing/schematic...

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 09, 2010, 12:41:03 AM
xee,
  Please help to figure out what Jonny is doing?  Thank you for all that you've done with the circuit.  Clarity may pull us all together, headed in one direction.

I'm most fond of Jonny's mod for wireless; and also Lidmotor/Kooler's "Lightning Maker" to study current magnification (Tesla claimed this as his  greatest invention).   Where are you going with all of this, if you dont mind my asking? 

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 09, 2010, 02:54:04 AM
This thread is very interesting to me, I think i'm going to try to wind my own trigger coil - I just don't have the means to buy one at the moment.

Do these devices contain a ferrite core?

Judging by the simplicity of the schematics posted here, it seems all that I need is a small coil, with yet another coil wrapped about it each sharing a common connection?

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 09, 2010, 03:10:40 AM
I just used a prefab inductor from a dsl filter, and wound about 20 turns of magwire around the outside, as described in my last post, I used a common lead, and a diode off the free end to a capacitor bridged to ground and it's reading 45 volts...

a capacitor from ground off a diode directed from the other free end of the 20 turns revealed 2.6 volts.

This was coming from a 1.2v source.  Pretty cool.  I'm not sure how many windings are on the inductor itself, but the ohmic resistance is about 3.8 ohms.

These trigger coils work pretty well on this circuit.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 09, 2010, 03:12:58 AM
Hi jadaro,
I just got a reply from jonny today about how to put it together, and he told me to take apart a flash camera circuit and use the trigger coil from there.
I did cuz I got 3/$1 from goldmine last year.
The wire must be a 40 awg. It is the skinniest wire I can imagine.
I am also planning to wind my own, but after I get this done.

Yes, in answer to your direct Q, it is ferrite wound like those helmholz inductors you used earlier this year, only with thin wire.

Sirmikey,
I pm'd jonnydavro because I was unable to get started because I am so far behind in making this kind of thing.
I will give you a copy of what jonny sent me so it can save him the trouble. These are clear instructions and worth repeating.
Thank you jonnydavro!

Quote
To get started you need 2 trigger coils.
1 for the oscilator and
1 to make a resonant reciever circuit.
These can be obtained from any flash camera or you can buy them from mouser.
If you use a camera coil,then you will need to solder three wires onto the pins.

The output is the top pin which goes to the xenon tube and use your multimeter to find continuity between the other two pins but make sure you don't use the output pin twice as i think it protrudes through to the bottom.
If you are going to use alu pans you will need two for the barebones(output and base ariel) and 4 for the full setup(output/base ariel/positive line /negative line)I find that when you use so many pans it takes a fair bit of space so i am using small stainless steel cups which i can get 4 for £1 at a local poundshop and these work really well and make it far easier to adjust things as when you build this you will find that pan placement plays an important part in performance.

So i will run through the build and i would do this on a breadboard and you need plenty of croc leads.
I have been measuring current with a voltmeter across a 1 ohm resistor on the positive input.

1.croc lead from batt positive to 1 ohm resistor
2.1 ohm resistor to primary of trigger coil +
3.negative of trigger coil to collector of mpsa06/2n2222/bc182 or try what you have handy
4.emitter of transistor to negative of battery
5.base of transistor to alu tray via croc lead
6.output of trigger coil to alu tray

This is the bare bones

7.croc lead from alu tray to negative or can be put in series with the negative input
8.croc lead from alu tray to positive or can be put in series with the positive input
Points to watch out for

To start the oscilator you want to have the base tray near the output tray and touch them together briefly or with your hand to get it going.
If it does not start,reverse your trigger coil primary connections.
Move the base tray away from the output tray to decrease amp draw and i have also found that if the negative output tray is brought near the base tray,amp draw is reduced.I position my trays/pots with the output tray on the left,base in the middle and negative to the right and leave the positive some distance away from these three.
You will need to make an led detector to see the wireless energy but you should see the voltmeter reading somthing.i would try and run it below 100mA and i find 50-60mA works good from a 12v supply.When you get it going you can experiment with lower voltages.

The led detector is just an avramenko plug with an led and a croc lead in a loop with each end connected to the one end of the avramenko plug.
The wireless reciever circuit is important as it amplifies the recieved signal and makes the leds really bright.
This consists of your 2nd trigger coil with the output going to a 10uh and then a 22uh inductor in series and then into an avramenko plug and then into a string of leds and of the negative leg of the last led you put a croc lead going to another alu tray as a virtual ground.

I am still not too sure which is the + lead is, so maybe someone here can help me.

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 09, 2010, 03:47:00 AM
Thanks Jeanna ;)  Hopefully someone can post a drawing once all of the detalis are worked out.  MASS REPLICATION AND THIS WONT GO AWAY...
Dr. Stiffler called it "near infinite lighting".  These circuits can be referred to as the milk and the meat!  The meat is the "Lighting Maker" (current magnification) IMO.   Just my 2 cents...

Exciting...
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: slayer007 on January 09, 2010, 03:53:09 AM
I noticed the exiter seems to run better when it's under load.
In this video I have the pan with the AV plug going to a big 12v battery for a load.
I also thought it was kinda cool how the cfl will light off the run battery.

I don't think it will charge the big battery but I'll let it run for awhile and see.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79EIv-na_o8
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 09, 2010, 03:55:31 AM
This is lidmotor's version with the 2 pans. I believe this is the one jonny refers to.
I will also post the address for jonny's circuit, although I believe it is more complicated than this.

jonnys circuit address:
http://img121.imageshack.us/i/torroidsec1.jpg/ (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/torroidsec1.jpg/)

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 09, 2010, 04:59:21 AM
Hopefully someone can post a drawing

This is a drawing I made from his video but I am not sure it is correct. The circuit he described to jeanna seems more like Lidmotor's circuit.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 09, 2010, 05:51:26 AM
I put jonnydavro's pm to me in the blue quotes.
My suggestion is to copy and past it onto a document on your computer.
He told me the lidmotor drawing was the one to use.

I am only mentioning this because many times I see the blue quotes box and skim over it.
I put it there so nobody would think it was my idea, but it does kind of hide it.

jeanna

BUT maybe I am on the wrong thread.
I wanted jonny's sec with pans that lid copied.
This thread seems to be about chilliqueen's 2 transistor circuit.
(my personal limit is 1 transistor and 1 battery, so I'm outta here.)
Sorry to bud in!

cheers!

jeanna

edit
Here is lidmotor's video for ease and reference
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Lidmotor#p/u/5/2Rzw4FRovnI (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Lidmotor#p/u/5/2Rzw4FRovnI)
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 09, 2010, 06:13:30 AM
Jeanna,

   You are correct, xee2 appears to have missed our posting of Darvo emails; though I don't think Lid was using the second receiver trigger coil.  He was hiking the input voltage to 12v instead, if I recall correctly. I also recall him mentioning "600 volts".  I don't have a 1000pf cap, am using the flash camera cap (1000uf) and measuring 300volts (still climbing).
   Thanks for your input, and please stay with this thread.

Regards,
Mike     
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: slayer007 on January 09, 2010, 10:35:20 PM
My last attempt to charge the big battery failed.
So now I'm taking a different approach and it seems to be working very well.

The transformer is going to some AL tape around one of the batterys.
That battery also has a diode on each post facing backwards.
Then running over to the other 12v battery.
There is also a piece of AL foil around the AA batterys with an AV plug running back up to the batteries.

It's only been running for close to a half hour but both batteries are charging from just two AA batteries.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Trx91_-sW4
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jonnydavro on January 10, 2010, 12:48:23 AM
Hi Mike and all.The circuits Jeanna posted are for my simple sec pan oscillator and also my torroid Sec and these are not based on chilliqueens circuit but are both oscillators which produce the SEC wireless and one wire energy transfer which is what i am researching at the moment but they contain useful imformation that can be utilised to increase the performance of the super joule thief circuit regarding wireless and one wire operation.
My chilliqueen Sec circuit can be found at the start of this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A
Since i made this Vid,i have found that by adding a croc lead and a pie tin/metal bowl to the base of the npn increases the brightness off the wireless leds and also alows you to control current draw by moving the base pan closer or further away from the output pan as i do in my pan oscillator.
Mike you asked about the brightness of my leds well the reason they are so bright is that i am using a reciever circuit that resonates at the same frequency as the transmitter.The reciever circuit requires just as much thought as the transmitter side and if they are both on the same frequency then recieved energy is greater.Its like a radio tuned into a radio station and a radio does not load the transmitter.
I am doing the same as Dr stiffler except he is using matched towers and i am using 2 of the same trigger transformers and in both cases they act as transmitter and reciever.We really need a radio man on this and then i bet output would be increased further.Maybe Gadget can have a think about this as i know he is a ham radio licence.
Also,the avramenko plug/led strings need to have a virtual ground on the last negative leg of the led string.This consists of just a croc lead going to a aluminium pie tin or pot.This is vital for bright leds.
Hope this helps.Regards jonny.
@Xee2.Your circuit diagram of my chilliqueen sec just needs the lower metal plate moving to the npn base and i think thats it.I was also using a 1.5v emergency phone charger which outputs 5.5v which i recomend people trying if they see one.Thanks for taking the time to do that.I would have taken a pic of the drawing i did but my cat left me a present on it as it don't like the cold.grrrr.Many thanks jonny.
@Slayer.Quite amazing you can do that of two 1.5v batteries,I wonder if its loopable back to source.Nice.Jonny
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 10, 2010, 01:56:59 AM
@ jonnydavro

Thanks for sharing your results. It is amazing that you can light the LEDs wirelessly so far away from the transmitter.

A new drawing is attached. I would like to replicate some of your experiments, but I do not have any large space to work in and I am afraid the high voltage fields may damage things like the TV and computer. Have you had any problems of that sort?





Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: resonanceman on January 10, 2010, 04:05:43 AM
This is a drawing I made from his video but I am not sure it is correct. The circuit he described to jeanna seems more like Lidmotor's circuit.

Xee

If I understand  your drawing 
All that  is happening is  the circuit is  driving the  trigger coil
Then the trigger  coil is causing a static charge on the pan
The  static  charge on the pan is causing  ripples in the eather
Scaler waves?
The  ripples  are being picked up by the other pan.

It is incredible that it is that simple.

What if the transistors were bigger and the pan was 100 times bigger?
WHat if the  voltage  of the static charge was 100 times more?



gary

edit

This makes me wish I had tried to see how  high I could  get the voltage  of a JT

If  I am right about this......there is a good chance that anyone  with a JT over about  1000 V should  be  able to  do wireless  like this  just by connecting  a  pan to one side of  the secondary

I am not sure what to do with the other side of the secondary.......maybe  just connect it to a cap..........or  a ground



Edit again

An ignition coil  should  work  like a big  trigger coil.
Connect  both  terminals to a secondary.
Then  connect the  high voltage output to the plate.
I would suggest  a well insulated plate

It is late..........I think I will try this tomorow

gary
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 10, 2010, 07:28:27 AM
resonanceman,

   You may want to see this video which is the JT used to pulse a "Stun Gun" KV circuit (current magnification?).  Lidmotor and Kooler's project. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGJKtYbGLw4

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 10, 2010, 08:44:05 AM
xee,
   Another member here has said that the original JT needs to be measured by running the transistor C&E through a full rectifier bridge.  I get around 7volts on the old JT.   Your method shows around 40 volts, but he is speaking of a DC spike that you get with your one diode method.  I sent him your Chilliqueen mod to see if he can help us there also. 
Later,
Mikey...
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 10, 2010, 10:02:10 PM
xee,
   Another member here has said that the original JT needs to be measured by running the transistor C&E through a full rectifier bridge.  I get around 7volts on the old JT
===========
EDIT
oops, I missed the most important part of your post, that it was the C-E where you were measuring.
The following has to do with measuring the secondary
so sorry.
===========
Mikey,
After you run it through the full bridge, then you must run it through 2 more diodes to solidify the directions (is how I think of it)
You will see many more volts when you use these 2 extra diodes.
And remember to use a photoflash cap. They are free and work very well for this... up to 300v

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jonnydavro on January 10, 2010, 11:42:19 PM
Hi.I have had another look at my chilliqueen SEC today and found out a few things.
The first is the ariel on the npn base needs to be removed as it is effectivly taking the pnp transistor out of the circuit and turning it into my pan oscillator.My chilliqueen SEC in my video was made without the ariel and works really well and it was after i made the vid when i decided to add it but it is detrimental to this circuit so Xee2 could you possibly do an amended circuit diagram including the following info.
I stripped my original chiliqueen SEC down and rebuilt it with the components in different places and to get it to run strongly i had to use a 22pf cap instead of the 100pf so component placement is important so if anyone builds this and their leds are dim,try different value caps  ranging from 10pf up to 100pf.I also added another four 1 meg resistors so resistace totals 7 meg so i could change the resistance by using a jumper  and this was a really good way to control the current draw up or down.Can you get a really large mega ohm value variable resistor as it would be perfect for this?.
This SEC variant runs really strong and stable without tuning issues and will do wireless leds straight of a 1.5v battery.Hope this info helps.Regards jonny.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 11, 2010, 12:21:31 AM
@ jonnydavro

I hope this is correct. If not just let me know. My local electronics store has 1/4 watt resistors up to 10M. Above that they usually need to be special ordered with long waits.

I think that there should be a second plate so that the energy has a complete path. Have you tried adding a plate to the positive battery terminal? That is where I would think it should go.

Typically, the high voltage is generated in a parallel resonant circuit. I think that the coil secondary makes the inductor for the resonator and thus the parallel capacitance should be across the coil secondary.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jonnydavro on January 11, 2010, 01:20:56 AM
@Xee2.Many thanks.I do use another two plates.In the vid,i show some leds being lit by the backflow energy.This is the same strange electricity which is being radiated yet it flows back down the pos and negative rails.i Utilise this to light two banks of leds with the attached circuit.One aramenko plug goes to the posistive rail and the other goes to the negative.The trays attached to the negative leg of the last led are vital in getting the leds blazing.By adding this circuit it also reduces amp draw.So to sum up i use three trays in all.The 10 meg resistor sound perfect.I will check my local shop.Many thanks. jonny.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 11, 2010, 09:14:38 AM

This project reminded me of these two papers from
Overunity.Com a few years back: 

Well, just that it might cause some sparks ;)

Overunity in Copper & The Peculiar Nature of Copper...
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=overunity%20copper

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 11, 2010, 10:14:57 AM
 You guys still working with the old Joule Thief might be interested in this schematic.  I haven't compared, don't have the exact difference or how it compares to the Chilliqueen circuit, but it' might be worth a look; as it maintains the joule thieving lifespan (supposedly)....  Found on the jt thread a few weeks ago..

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: slayer007 on January 13, 2010, 01:33:49 AM
Here is my version the Jonnydavro Chilliqueen circuit I have been using.
It works very well on low voltage.

The DR Stiffler tower can be used as an optional power out.
The tower can be replaced with an antenna.

Thanks Jonny and Chilliqueen.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 13, 2010, 05:15:58 PM
Has anyone tried to wind their own trigger coil?

I have 36 gage wire, but doesn't this increase the likelihood of insulation breakdown?
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2010, 09:07:39 PM
Jadaro:

I would think it might.  That is why I use the 28 ga. Newbie Wire from Gobrushless.  It has a much thicker coating (insulation) than regular magnet wire.  The dielectric strength of the coating still might not be good enough for real high voltage applications. But I have not tried to wind a trigger coil yet.

Even with my extra precautions I have a short somewhere on my latest large toroid wind and it is going to be a real pain to locate.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 13, 2010, 09:34:15 PM
Bill,
I have not tried this but tesla made the suggestion to turn look in a totally dark place, and you should be able to see the break.
I wonder if this works.
You might need to wait 10 minutes for your visual purple to be restored.

Please let us know if you try this.

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2010, 10:35:20 PM
Jeanna:

Thanks for the suggestion.  Main problem is, I can only run it for a few seconds as the transistor gets too hot to even touch.  I believe I fried the first one so I replaced it and...it gets really hot really fast too.  I had no problems like this with my first large toroid wind.  I can run that one for hours and the transistor remains cool.

I know I screwed up something along the way, I just have to figure out what.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: resonanceman on January 14, 2010, 02:29:45 AM
Jadaro:

I would think it might.  That is why I use the 28 ga. Newbie Wire from Gobrushless.  It has a much thicker coating (insulation) than regular magnet wire.  The dielectric strength of the coating still might not be good enough for real high voltage applications. But I have not tried to wind a trigger coil yet.

Even with my extra precautions I have a short somewhere on my latest large toroid wind and it is going to be a real pain to locate.

Bill

Bill

Do  you have any shellac  laying around?

SHellac   is a very good insulator ........ It was used  on motors for years

Thery wound the rotors then dipped then in shellac   just to make  sure the insulation  was intact

If  you  give  your toroid a nice paint  job with shellac it might  seal the  short .... If  it  does not ...... shellac is not that strong...... you can still pull the wire off
It may take  a little scraping  to  get the shellac off the toroid.......but  I think  it is  a good risk

gary
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 14, 2010, 02:47:13 AM
Jadaro:

I would think it might.  That is why I use the 28 ga. Newbie Wire from Gobrushless.  It has a much thicker coating (insulation) than regular magnet wire.  The dielectric strength of the coating still might not be good enough for real high voltage applications. But I have not tried to wind a trigger coil yet.

Even with my extra precautions I have a short somewhere on my latest large toroid wind and it is going to be a real pain to locate.

Bill

I think the trigger coils may have been done as suggested above ( with shellac ) or some other extra insulation.  It would be nice to see the results of a magnetic insulator?

Also, since you have a toroid wound / winding, you can take the entire toroid and connect one terminal on the suspect wire to one terminal on an ohmmeter and the other you can do this with:

Drop your toroid in distilled water, the ohmic resistance should change the closer you get to the break in the wire.  Do not add electrolytes.  Alcohol could be another solution you could try, if the water is too conductive.

Your toroid may be shorted to the wire, check ohmic resistance between toroid and the wire ends.  If this is so, then you can repeat the operation above and note the fact, you may have to take this into account.

Also, do not try to push high voltage through and look for a glow on the cable, it's likely to cause more breaks in the insulation as well as make whatever breaks you have bigger.

There may be more than one break already.

About your transistor overheating:  Try increasing resistance to base?, or you could bias the transistor with a diode. Or reduce number of coils on the inductor-to-base.  Only problem I've ever had with an overheating transistor is too much current-always on transistor.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 15, 2010, 03:48:16 AM
Using 5v input, the disposable camera transformer gives me 550v rectified.  The 4kv trigger coil is nothing spectacular either, about half.  Slayer says that the 10kv trigger coil puts out well over 1000volts, using 2 AA batteries.  1kv seems to be the minimal mandatory target.  Well, just wanted to say...
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 15, 2010, 03:54:17 AM
Ultimately the winding ratio is what dictates the voltage out vs voltage in.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 15, 2010, 04:05:37 AM
jadaro:

Thank you for your suggestions on diagnosing my coil problems.  I think it is as you said too low base resistance.  I just found that all 3 of my vr are burned.  These were new and 2 of them are heavy duty rheostats (wire wound) but now when I test them, they are all over the place, mostly show continuity with no resistance.

This would explain me frying the transistors and them getting hot.  I need to find better vrs somewhere.  I didn't think there was too much juice flowing through the base resistors and they should have been ok but...anyway, thanks for the help.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 18, 2010, 02:38:49 AM
Xee & all,

   Per our recent PMs, I'm wondering if there might be some way to match or exceed Jeanna's "1kv with a AA battery" using the Chilliqueen.  What's my point?  Well, it's current draw: The chilliqueen draws much less current; and also thinking that something much lighter than toroid would further improve draw? 

  With a single AA, the 4kv trigger coil is putting out around 22v rectified and the camera coil around 250v rectified :(

 I've been looking around for different possibilities, and wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend something that works.  Paralleling coils?  Voltage doublers? Two stage step-ups (transformers) like the stun gun circuit?   

  I've been using your secondaries/trigger coil schematics from this thread. I also tried the attached voltage doubler circuit, but could not get it to work.  Anything?  Anyone? 

Thanks in Advance,
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2010, 02:41:27 AM
Mikey:

Just so you know, Jeanna can get over 2kv with her large wound toroid.  This is without a trigger coil.  I have not been able to do this yet I am afraid.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 18, 2010, 03:05:58 AM
@ sirmikey1

This is a circuit I posted early in this thread. I believe it is putting out over 1000 volts but I have not measured it. It should work with other transistors also, but these are the only transistors I have tested it with. I have tried to use trigger coils in place of the ignition coil, but I have not found any that will work. I have used a small toroid to replace the ignition coil and that worked but I do not know how much voltage it was generating.

Why don't you use Jonnydavro's  simple sec circuit? That puts out over 1000 volts and only needs one transistor.

What camera coil are you using? If you use that in this circuit you may get over 1000 volts (if not try reducing the 1M resistor to a lower value). The extra transistor increases the current which in turn will increase the voltage generated by the coil.




Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 18, 2010, 04:32:24 AM

... I'm wondering if there might be some way to match or exceed Jeanna's "1kv with a AA battery" using the Chilliqueen.  What's my point?  Well, it's current draw: The chilliqueen draws much less current; and also thinking that something much lighter than toroid would further improve draw? 
...
Mikey
Hi Mikey,
Here is something I want to point out.
I am no longer satisfied that the amperage readings are accurate.
It is for this reason I have stopped mentioning them. Also I did that test with the transistor with various loads on the secondary and they all took the same amount of time to drain the battery.

I could be telling you that my amps draw is 20mA because it can look like that, depending on what resistor I use at the pos battery lead.
If I use a 10 ohm resistor the amps draw looks like 50 mA  but with 33 ohms it looks like 20mA, and it makes sense, but when I use a 1/2 ohm resistor it appears to be 120mA .
But I do not use any resistor when it is in use, so what is it? 60mA ?? See what I mean?

I do not know how a 2 transistor circuit can use less than what it takes to turn on 2 transistors. I suppose they can be on for miniscule amounts of time, but chilliqueen told me the NPN gets really hot in a few seconds, but he can sink the heat.
grr.
It means something needs to be worked out still.

The part I am looking at these days in respect to draw, is what is wasted?


I am learning that if I make 2000 volts and only need 800, I am still making 2000v and there is nothing using them but they are disappearing.
It is like so much we do, we waste and don't even know it.

That is the reason I love lidmotor's rheostat at the pos wire from the battery. It lowers the volts, and it lowers the amps at the same time. The drain time is very much extended, and that means it is not being wasted.
Obviously if the rheostat lowers the light then it is removing what you want, but many times I can turn that rheostat, and the light will stay fully bright for a part of the turn.
The extra wasted is between that and the fully opened state.

This is really tricky stuff. We have no real direct way of knowing what we are using and wasting, but I am sure as I can be that we are wasting a lot.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2010, 05:50:42 AM
Jeanna:

Excellent explanation of the rheostat on the positive wire.  I use these now too once I saw Lidmotor's video.  I also agree with you about waste.

Great points you made.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 18, 2010, 10:06:54 AM
  @Xee; Thanks, as I had yet to try your darlington suggestion. I'll try this immediately.  Tried the  car coil; takes the AA battery out fast.  Also appreciate and noted your other recommendations.   

    @jeanna; Agreed, hard to compare.  The JT, the BEMF, would think that every flashlight and portable electrical device on the market would soon have one of these.  8) $...   Chilliqueen NPN never hot with right resistor.  Open circuits, CQ may outrun the JT.  How long before science catches up to this stuff? 

  Load...   Darvo's Simple SEC has open transistor base....  Meyers forbid resistors/shorting, used chokes instead...   Anyone tried triggering the transistor base with a choke instead of resistance?  That and/or maybe an ultra sensitive NPN base?    Mindless rant, but how about an ultra sensitive transistor that specifically/reliably self oscillates, variable. 

  Oh well.... and pardon the brainstorm...

Regards,
Mikey       
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 18, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
@ sirmikey1

Tried the  car A; takes the AA battery out fast.

That is strange. The circuit I just posted only uses 28 ma to light the fluorescent tube. That is less than one half the current used by CQ original circuit, so batteries should last twice as long.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 18, 2010, 04:00:25 PM
Xee,
   I tried using one of those imhotep 60's car coils.  Maybe I need one like yours.  I wired it according to morpher4's schematic here below, if you don't mind taking a peek...
Miikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 18, 2010, 04:42:29 PM
@ sirmikey1

Try the circuit I posted. An ordinary car ignition coil should work. Once you have that working you can try to find a smaller coil that will also work. The "HV" terminal is the plug at the top of the coil.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 18, 2010, 05:17:19 PM
Hi Guys,

   Slayer sent me a link to purchase the little cell phone charger joule thief thingy. This is one of the better ones, comes with 12 adapters. 

Slayer Recommended buy two and running them together 12volts...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Emergency-Cell-Phone-Power-from-a-AA-Battery-Charger_W0QQitemZ290390529721QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item439c9fd6b9 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Emergency-Cell-Phone-Power-from-a-AA-Battery-Charger_W0QQitemZ290390529721QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item439c9fd6b9)

Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2010, 07:36:32 PM
sirmikey1:

Thanks, that is a great price for those.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 18, 2010, 09:28:46 PM
sirmikey1, the transistor base, unless it has been severed and insulated, will pick up transient voltage transmissions from the other part of the circuit, even though it appears 'loose' it's still there.

If you try the circuit, try insulating the base lead, with a bit of electrical tape or shrink tube you may notice it stops working as well.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 18, 2010, 10:03:32 PM
... Tried the  car coil; takes the AA battery out fast. 

    @jeanna; Agreed, hard to compare.  The JT, the BEMF, would think that every flashlight and portable electrical device on the market would soon have one of these.  8) $...   Chilliqueen NPN never hot with right resistor.  Open circuits, CQ may outrun the JT.  How long before science catches up to this stuff? 


  Meyers forbid resistors/shorting, used chokes instead...   Anyone tried triggering the transistor base with a choke instead of resistance?  That and/or maybe an ultra sensitive NPN base? 
sirmikey,
These are very interesting ideas.
Is a germanium transistor really that available?
It only needs 0.3v to start,
I like the idea of a choke to start it. It is in the arena of the mag amp, which I try to get started on every once in a while, but never get very far, because it seems to need a pulsed power source....

About the amps draw, I think that whatever you find out for amps draw needs to be backed up with how long it takes to drain an AAA battery. And I tend to believe that you have just shown this to yourself.

...And anyway,  if anything can run on less than 1 volt then even my EB can run it and it doesn't matter about battery life.

It was a pm from cq about the overheating, and I never went anywhere with it except to note it.
Because it exceeds my personal limit of 1 transistor, anyway.
If I ever were to make one of them, I would only do it one time out of curiosity.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 19, 2010, 12:17:21 AM
@ jeanna

Quote from: jeanna link=topic=8564.msg223709#msg223709 A=1263848612
...And anyway,  if anything can run on less than 1 volt then even my EB can run it and it doesn't matter about A life.

This will run on less than 1 volt and I am sure your EB will supply enough current to run it. You may want to change 2M resistor to lower value to increase brightness of LEDs.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 19, 2010, 03:45:36 PM
   @zee, the added transistor really hyped things up, 1350v rectified.  Thanks!  I had also neglected to connect the neg of the secondary to the primary hot.

  What average voltage remains on a dead JT AA?   Is the earth battery fairly constant?  Would be interesting to test the .3v transistor in both CQ and JT; for both extend run time and to compare.

   ChilliQueen posted a new one transistor Resonate LCR JT circuit yesterday, where he mentions a program which will tell you what values of LCR will resonate.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpH4oOHAV3I

  You guys are about to redefine the meaning of "Off the Grid" and "WiTricity". 

Cheers,
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 19, 2010, 05:11:33 PM
@ sirmikey1

the added transistor really hyped things up, 1350v rectified.  Thanks!  I had also neglected to connect the neg of the secondary to the primary hot.

Great. What transformer are you using. Please post your circuit so that others can learn from your work.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 19, 2010, 05:31:09 PM
   @zee, the added transistor really hyped things up, 1350v rectified.  Thanks!  I had also neglected to connect the neg of the secondary to the primary hot.

  What average voltage remains on a dead JT AA?   Is the earth battery fairly constant?  Would be interesting to test the .3v transistor in both CQ and JT; for both extend run time and to compare.

   ChilliQueen posted a new one transistor Resonate LCR JT circuit yesterday, where he mentions a program which will tell you what values of LCR will resonate.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpH4oOHAV3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpH4oOHAV3I)

  You guys are about to redefine the meaning of "Off the Grid" and "WiTricity". 

Cheers,
Mikey

My EER (formerly earth battery) consistently puts out 1.7-2.00 volts @ around 19 mA.  Lasersaber is getting over 35 mAs from his set-up.  They do fluctuate a bit but the range stays pretty but much the same.  Plenty of energy to run a JT circuit as I, and many, have done.

Nice job on your circuit.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 19, 2010, 09:56:21 PM
Hi,
   The camera transformer is from the Kodak Funsaver disposable camera, the 4 prong transformer. The 1350v is using 5v input.  I need to try the three prong transformer again, and the 4kv trigger, now that I have that wire corrected.  The schematic is your CQ darlington with trigger coil. The transistors made huge difference in voltage, and I'm using 2n3906 for PNP, and 2n3904 for the NPNs.
Take Care,
Mikey   

   
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: kooler on January 20, 2010, 01:08:59 AM
mikey
here is alot of camera circuits.. we all done in the past

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6942.msg161195#msg161195 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6942.msg161195#msg161195)

a little more simple and have the same or better results
have fun
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 20, 2010, 01:35:30 AM
can someone put a scope on this thing?  I appear to be getting decent AC off a secondary...

Or I should say that I'm getting the same voltage rectified off both (either) side of a secondary.  As if the in-pulse is just as effective as the out-pulse.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: xee2 on January 20, 2010, 01:47:06 AM
can someone put a scope on this thing?  I appear to be getting decent AC off a secondary...

Or I should say that I'm getting the same voltage rectified off both (either) side of a secondary.  As if the in-pulse is just as effective as the out-pulse.

You can use a neon bulb. If both electrodes light it is AC. This circuit has current pulses that go up fast and then come down fast later. The output polarity depends on if the pulse is going up or down fast. A regular JT goes up slow and down fast.

Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 20, 2010, 03:19:46 AM
You can use a neon bulb. If both electrodes light it is AC. This circuit has current pulses that go up fast and then come down fast later. The output polarity depends on if the pulse is going up or down fast. A regular JT goes up slow and down fast.

I'm not quite getting enough volts to light a common neon.  This is interesting though.

I'll dig around for a smaller one, EG sent me some in a surprise box.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 20, 2010, 03:34:21 AM
I'm just not getting enough voltage; don't have a spare core sitting around to wind a decent transformer, and toroids, despite their benefits, are a pain in the ass to wind... especially when I need a 100 or 200 to one ratio.  I would like a 400:1 ratio, but I think it's asking a bit much, the voltage across the terminals might jump from there...and there may be a breakdown.

I've though about using an electric guitar pickup for a coil, they're wound numerous times and have a magnetic core.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 20, 2010, 03:36:31 AM
@ jeanna

This will run on less than 1 volt and I am sure your EB will supply enough current to run it. You may want to change 2M resistor to lower value to increase brightness of LEDs.
Thanks xee,
I will keep this for the weather change.

Meantime I will also order some magnesium ribbon.
If I can improve my results by a fraction of what lasersaber has, I could lite the park... not that I want to, but I will love to bring it inside from the EER.

thank you,

jeanna
1
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 20, 2010, 11:36:10 AM

@Jadaro,  Both sides of the neon will light. CQ recommended going to the drug store and asking for some of the throw-away cameras.  I got two.  I've also got several junk transformers from televisions and monitors.  I used a chain of 1meg resistors in series to find joy, and to escape the heat...

SM


 
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on January 20, 2010, 04:42:55 PM
Garden Lights!
Interesting Application of Joule Thief (self charging).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ss0sr_nlwY
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 20, 2010, 11:45:40 PM
. CQ recommended going to the drug store and asking for some of the throw-away cameras.  I got two. 
There is a difference, and we found that the fuji camera with the black push button which uses the AA and [NOT the green slider which uses the AAA] is the best one to use.

the pictures are in the schematics thread Bill started to make it easier for folks to get started a year ago (!)

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 29, 2010, 03:19:01 AM
Does anyone have a clinical analysis of the ratios of turns, diameters, or otherwise coreless indications of how to maximize voltage EMF on a collapsing magnetic field vs the frequency.

All things relative of course.

- - - - - - - -

I'm trying to determine the correct frequency for maximum yield of a given pulsing magnetic moment ...I want to design the core to use so little current, that it becomes voltage oriented.

This would allow the device to perform for extended periods of time.

*bump
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 29, 2010, 05:47:56 AM
I think your question sounds very complicated.
If you make thin hi voltage spikes on the pick up secondary, you will be using very little amps.
That is not the amps draw from the battery, of course, but the secondary can just produce those spikes all day long, so long as you get the transistor to turn on.
So, if you can use a germanium transistor and restrict the base with a high value resistor, you are good to go.

I do not know what you are looking for in figures, but you might be able to make a few tests and inform all the rest of us.

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 29, 2010, 04:36:21 PM
I'm fixing to place some more parts orders, i'll be hard pressed to find a germanium transistor though.

I think my question was convoluted.  The idea is to reduce as much as possible the current coming from the battery.  I noticed, that occasionally, a battery will provide an greater than consistent voltage when initially connected, I think this could become usefull.

Have you ever connected a voltmeter ( to a battery ) and noticed that it spikes upon connect then finds a normal value?
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jeanna on January 30, 2010, 02:19:04 AM
@jadaro,

I think that initial pulse which killed a lot of people was one of the reasons Tesla gave in the fight against dc. It is really very large in a big system.

And, Yes, I have.
 It happens fast and is hard to read, and the meter does not always catch it.

Gadgetmall has germanium transistors.

jeanna
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: tysb3 on January 30, 2010, 03:27:53 AM
@jadaro

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2299
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 30, 2010, 06:47:23 AM
@jadaro

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2299 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G2299)

Excellent! 

Thank you.

Bill
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 30, 2010, 09:52:18 PM
Yes! I recently ordered this transistor, only two of them though I'm not so sure that our wild tangential voltages are so safe for these types of transistors; it should be noted that the 2n128 is a PNP transistor

considering mosfets?:

On top of this, I would rather be testing with MOSFETS, I was planing to test this particular circuit use two enhancement mode power mosfets rather than two transistors, just to see what the results would be like, as it stands the device uses very little current...

- - - - - - -

Eliminating the current from base to emitter all together would thus lower the overall current usage, this is just common sense.  It makes more sense to use a MOSFET when the current consumption is near enough to the base-emitter leakage associated with turning it on in the first place.

I may wind up replacing the PNP transistor with a P-Channel enhancement mode mosfte and leaving the NPN transistor, as I can see the only place where current is really leaking through to ground ( about the transistors / semiconductors ) is through the PNP base-emitter ...  the oscillation are already voltage oriented pulse activated at this locate.

I have been warned about the sensitivity of the thin film glass metal oxide gate's sensitivity to electricity ( and hence their breakdowns ) .. I'll have to be extra careful with them in this case.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: crowclaw on January 31, 2010, 08:10:15 PM

considering mosfets?:

On top of this, I would rather be testing with MOSFETS, I was planing to test this particular circuit use two enhancement mode power mosfets rather than two transistors, just to see what the results would be like, as it stands the device uses very little current...

- - - - - - -

Eliminating the current from base to emitter all together would thus lower the overall current usage, this is just common sense.  It makes more sense to use a MOSFET when the current consumption is near enough to the base-emitter leakage associated with turning it on in the first place.

I may wind up replacing the PNP transistor with a P-Channel enhancement mode mosfte and leaving the NPN transistor, as I can see the only place where current is really leaking through to ground ( about the transistors / semiconductors ) is through the PNP base-emitter ...  the oscillation are already voltage oriented pulse activated at this locate.

I have been warned about the sensitivity of the thin film glass metal oxide gate's sensitivity to electricity ( and hence their breakdowns ) .. I'll have to be extra careful with them in this case.

considering mosfets?:

On top of this, I would rather be testing with MOSFETS, I was planing to test this particular circuit use two enhancement mode power mosfets rather than two transistors, just to see what the results would be like, as it stands the device uses very little current...

- - - - - - -

Eliminating the current from base to emitter all together would thus lower the overall current usage, this is just common sense.  It makes more sense to use a MOSFET when the current consumption is near enough to the base-emitter leakage associated with turning it on in the first place.

I may wind up replacing the PNP transistor with a P-Channel enhancement mode mosfte and leaving the NPN transistor, as I can see the only place where current is really leaking through to ground ( about the transistors / semiconductors ) is through the PNP base-emitter ...  the oscillation are already voltage oriented pulse activated at this locate.

I have been warned about the sensitivity of the thin film glass metal oxide gate's sensitivity to electricity ( and hence their breakdowns ) .. I'll have to be extra careful with them in this case.
[/quote]
Hi Jadaro,

I go along with your idea with trying mosfet devices. I have tried a 2n7000 and it worked but the gate  voltage can be tricky to get them to work succesfully. Please keep us informed of your own findings using mosfets.
Kind Regards
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: crowclaw on January 31, 2010, 08:14:19 PM



Hi Jadaro,

I go along with your idea with trying mosfet devices. I have tried a 2n7000 and it worked but the gate  voltage can be tricky to get them to work succesfully. Please keep us informed of your own findings using mosfets.
Kind Regards
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 31, 2010, 09:54:56 PM
Hi Jadaro,

I go along with your idea with trying mosfet devices. I have tried a 2n7000 and it worked but the gate  voltage can be tricky to get them to work succesfully. Please keep us informed of your own findings using mosfets.
Kind Regards

I have that part ordered as well; ..I think that saturation times are different for mosfets than they are from transistors, this must be in large part to the fact that current is flowing through them, perhaps a strategically placed capacitor can give a greater yield.

The placements of transistors seems unusual.

This brings me back to my original post regarding the unusual behavior of the PNP transistor and my inability to take and accurate readings of its frequency characteristics.

Would it always appear 'on' because the PNP is simply opening the NPN collector-emitter pathway and the oscillating?

Is anyone else having readings which vary from the NPN?  I'm actually wondering why this circuit uses so little current.

- - - - -

In the future mosfet setups I plan to use an electrically isolated trigger coil, it should behave just like a transformer, the initial pulse should create a voltage boost along the primary winding as it is, perhaps I can use this to get the timing right on the PNP base / gate area.  I'll post my schematics soon, I'm just waiting on the mail to come at this point.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: tysb3 on February 01, 2010, 04:32:49 AM
@ jadaro2600

this is Brovin's kacher. low power silicon transistor works with lockup base. just need to touch piece of wire on base to start spikes on collector. base coil could be connected too.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 01, 2010, 05:04:30 AM
@ jadaro2600

this is Brovin's kacher. low power silicon transistor works with lockup base. just need to touch piece of wire on base to start spikes on collector. base coil could be connected too.

I've been occupied lately, but I'll build that one too, looks interesting.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 18, 2010, 09:07:36 AM
Just a note, a heads up...
Davro Video, at 1:45 or so, he is creating SEC receivers which are also "repeaters", have their own trigger coils.  I think this is a real biggie, unlimited current and current magnification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A

M
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 24, 2010, 05:29:14 AM
I noticed that the trigger coil version of this circuit includes an optional resistor at the base of the NPN transistor.

Has anyone got any recommendations for the value of the resistor VS the potential for voltage going through that path to the base?

How would I measure it without discontinuing the operation of the circuit.  ( having trouble determining this easily )
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 24, 2010, 01:23:41 PM
Jadaro,

  You can use a variable 4meg pot or a string of resistors that you can jump around, to find highest voltage/resonance.  Gets hot if you dont. 

  Works well for KV with some coils, and not so well with others.  I added one NPN and get 1350v.   Might try Lidmotor's MPSA06 darlington NPN if needed.

Regards,
Mikey
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 24, 2010, 04:47:59 PM
The circuit itself is a sort of Darlington setup.

I am referring to the placing a resistor at the base of the NPN transistor.

I believe that the CE resistance of the PNP transistor would be around 1 or 2k when the base is about 3M.  This essentially cuts the path current down significantly through there already going to the base of the NPN.

The only wastes that I notice are in the current drains from base to emitter on either.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: ElectricGoose on February 25, 2010, 01:04:02 AM
@ jonnydavro

Thanks for A your results. It is amazing that you can light the LEDs wirelessly so far away from the transmitter.

A new drawing is attached. I would like to replicate some of your experiments, but I do not have any large space to work in and I am afraid the high voltage fields may damage things like the TV and computer. Have you had any problems of that sort?


Hi Guys

New to this forum and just attempting some of the new JT variants.  Has anyone had success with a simplified 'SEC' type version such as was posted by Xee (but JohnnyDav design) however with really low voltage/amp draw rather than 5 volt input?
I'm looking for something that will run on the smell of an ozone vapor :-)

Thanks for your help

E-Goose
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 25, 2010, 04:14:49 AM

Hi Guys

New to this forum and just attempting some of the new JT variants.  Has anyone had success with a simplified 'SEC' type version such as was posted by Xee (but JohnnyDav design) however with really low voltage/amp draw rather than 5 volt input?
I'm looking for something that will run on the smell of an ozone vapor :-)

Thanks for your help

E-Goose

You may be able to activate something with such a smell ...a mosfet in enhancement mode is particularly sensitive to voltage changes, and may cut on at very low voltages, but then you would be using it as a switch.

Considering you may be making a sarcastic statement, then Kooler has a 'backwards Joule Thief' variant here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg229273#msg229273 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg229273#msg229273) and here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg230055#msg230055 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg230055#msg230055) which uses very low current.

If you aren't, then you may be able to create a differential galvanic probe, ( just two unlike metals within close proximity to one another ).

I considered doing this myself to test for voltage distortions in the atmosphere; I noticed that when I brought my finger close to a mosfet, the ohmic resistance of the source to drain changed ( drastic variations ).
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: ElectricGoose on February 28, 2010, 09:36:29 AM
You may be able to activate something with such a smell ...a mosfet in enhancement mode is particularly sensitive to voltage changes, and may cut on at very low voltages, but then you would be using it as a switch.

Considering you may be making a sarcastic statement, then Kooler has a 'backwards Joule Thief' variant here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg229273#msg229273 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg229273#msg229273) and here:http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg230055#msg230055 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg230055#msg230055) which uses very low current.

If you aren't, then you may be able to create a differential galvanic probe, ( just two unlike A within close proximity to one another ).

I considered doing this myself to test for voltage distortions in the atmosphere; I noticed that when I brought my finger close to a mosfet, the ohmic resistance of the source to drain changed ( drastic variations ).

Thanks for taking the time to post the links.  Appreciate it!  Yes...despite you humoring my potential at a serious comment, it was just dry sarcasm on my part regarding the whiff of ozone.  :D

Up and away!

EG
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 28, 2010, 03:27:35 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post the links.  Appreciate it!  Yes...despite you humoring my potential at a serious comment, it was just dry sarcasm on my part regarding the whiff of ozone.  :D

Up and away!

EG

lol, I've learned that there are plenty of crazy ideas floating around here.  Your's even seems feasible with the right equipment.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 04, 2010, 12:45:24 PM
lol, I've learned that there are plenty of crazy ideas floating around here.  Your's even seems feasible with the right equipment.

'Crazy'?  ;) indeed not so much, I constantly remind myself.  After awhile of experimenting within this 'shadowland' of alternate energy that most people are totally oblivious to (as they race from their 9-5 job to purchase new big screen TV etc), it becomes very easy to start accepting "the crazy" we ourselves might have dismissed years ago. 

I have seen some amazing things and feel that nothing is impossible.....only a closed mind.

ElectricGoose
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: jadaro2600 on June 07, 2010, 08:17:43 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has made any further mods to this type of circuit?

I'm trying to understand how it works - there are several variant diagrams, but all are in principle the same.

There seems to be a lack of updates here - even considering the unusually low current input.
Title: Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
Post by: crowclaw on June 07, 2010, 08:50:00 PM

I considered doing this myself to test for voltage distortions in the atmosphere; I noticed that when I brought my finger close to a mosfet, the ohmic resistance of the source to drain changed ( drastic variations ).
Hi jadaro2600,

This close finger is the principle of how some simple static electricity detectors work using mosfet devices... select say a 2n7000 or similar mosfet and connect to a 9 volt battery. Solder a 1meg or higher resistor and connect one end to the gate with the other end connected to a short length of solid stiff wire. Next connect a miliamp meter in series with a resistor between the drain and supply line . You have a simple static detector which will respond to a static charged body within close proximity to the set up. The input resistance to a mosfet is very high but note keep grounded while handling as they can be easily destroyed. May be a little off topic sorry.