Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....  (Read 181281 times)

Offline Pirate88179

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8366
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2010, 04:05:37 AM »
jadaro:

Thank you for your suggestions on diagnosing my coil problems.  I think it is as you said too low base resistance.  I just found that all 3 of my vr are burned.  These were new and 2 of them are heavy duty rheostats (wire wound) but now when I test them, they are all over the place, mostly show continuity with no resistance.

This would explain me frying the transistors and them getting hot.  I need to find better vrs somewhere.  I didn't think there was too much juice flowing through the base resistors and they should have been ok but...anyway, thanks for the help.

Bill

Offline sirmikey1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #106 on: January 18, 2010, 02:38:49 AM »
Xee & all,

   Per our recent PMs, I'm wondering if there might be some way to match or exceed Jeanna's "1kv with a AA battery" using the Chilliqueen.  What's my point?  Well, it's current draw: The chilliqueen draws much less current; and also thinking that something much lighter than toroid would further improve draw? 

  With a single AA, the 4kv trigger coil is putting out around 22v rectified and the camera coil around 250v rectified :(

 I've been looking around for different possibilities, and wondering if anyone here might be able to recommend something that works.  Paralleling coils?  Voltage doublers? Two stage step-ups (transformers) like the stun gun circuit?   

  I've been using your secondaries/trigger coil schematics from this thread. I also tried the attached voltage doubler circuit, but could not get it to work.  Anything?  Anyone? 

Thanks in Advance,
Mikey

Offline Pirate88179

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8366
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2010, 02:41:27 AM »
Mikey:

Just so you know, Jeanna can get over 2kv with her large wound toroid.  This is without a trigger coil.  I have not been able to do this yet I am afraid.

Bill

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2010, 03:05:58 AM »
@ sirmikey1

This is a circuit I posted early in this thread. I believe it is putting out over 1000 volts but I have not measured it. It should work with other transistors also, but these are the only transistors I have tested it with. I have tried to use trigger coils in place of the ignition coil, but I have not found any that will work. I have used a small toroid to replace the ignition coil and that worked but I do not know how much voltage it was generating.

Why don't you use Jonnydavro's  simple sec circuit? That puts out over 1000 volts and only needs one transistor.

What camera coil are you using? If you use that in this circuit you may get over 1000 volts (if not try reducing the 1M resistor to a lower value). The extra transistor increases the current which in turn will increase the voltage generated by the coil.




« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 03:26:50 AM by xee2 »

Offline jeanna

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3546
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2010, 04:32:24 AM »

... I'm wondering if there might be some way to match or exceed Jeanna's "1kv with a AA battery" using the Chilliqueen.  What's my point?  Well, it's current draw: The chilliqueen draws much less current; and also thinking that something much lighter than toroid would further improve draw? 
...
Mikey
Hi Mikey,
Here is something I want to point out.
I am no longer satisfied that the amperage readings are accurate.
It is for this reason I have stopped mentioning them. Also I did that test with the transistor with various loads on the secondary and they all took the same amount of time to drain the battery.

I could be telling you that my amps draw is 20mA because it can look like that, depending on what resistor I use at the pos battery lead.
If I use a 10 ohm resistor the amps draw looks like 50 mA  but with 33 ohms it looks like 20mA, and it makes sense, but when I use a 1/2 ohm resistor it appears to be 120mA .
But I do not use any resistor when it is in use, so what is it? 60mA ?? See what I mean?

I do not know how a 2 transistor circuit can use less than what it takes to turn on 2 transistors. I suppose they can be on for miniscule amounts of time, but chilliqueen told me the NPN gets really hot in a few seconds, but he can sink the heat.
grr.
It means something needs to be worked out still.

The part I am looking at these days in respect to draw, is what is wasted?


I am learning that if I make 2000 volts and only need 800, I am still making 2000v and there is nothing using them but they are disappearing.
It is like so much we do, we waste and don't even know it.

That is the reason I love lidmotor's rheostat at the pos wire from the battery. It lowers the volts, and it lowers the amps at the same time. The drain time is very much extended, and that means it is not being wasted.
Obviously if the rheostat lowers the light then it is removing what you want, but many times I can turn that rheostat, and the light will stay fully bright for a part of the turn.
The extra wasted is between that and the fully opened state.

This is really tricky stuff. We have no real direct way of knowing what we are using and wasting, but I am sure as I can be that we are wasting a lot.

thank you,

jeanna

Offline Pirate88179

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8366
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2010, 05:50:42 AM »
Jeanna:

Excellent explanation of the rheostat on the positive wire.  I use these now too once I saw Lidmotor's video.  I also agree with you about waste.

Great points you made.

Bill

Offline sirmikey1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2010, 10:06:54 AM »
  @Xee; Thanks, as I had yet to try your darlington suggestion. I'll try this immediately.  Tried the  car coil; takes the AA battery out fast.  Also appreciate and noted your other recommendations.   

    @jeanna; Agreed, hard to compare.  The JT, the BEMF, would think that every flashlight and portable electrical device on the market would soon have one of these.  8) $...   Chilliqueen NPN never hot with right resistor.  Open circuits, CQ may outrun the JT.  How long before science catches up to this stuff? 

  Load...   Darvo's Simple SEC has open transistor base....  Meyers forbid resistors/shorting, used chokes instead...   Anyone tried triggering the transistor base with a choke instead of resistance?  That and/or maybe an ultra sensitive NPN base?    Mindless rant, but how about an ultra sensitive transistor that specifically/reliably self oscillates, variable. 

  Oh well.... and pardon the brainstorm...

Regards,
Mikey       
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 11:43:12 AM by sirmikey1 »

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2010, 01:59:25 PM »
@ sirmikey1

Tried the  car A; takes the AA battery out fast.

That is strange. The circuit I just posted only uses 28 ma to light the fluorescent tube. That is less than one half the current used by CQ original circuit, so batteries should last twice as long.


Offline sirmikey1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2010, 04:00:25 PM »
Xee,
   I tried using one of those imhotep 60's car coils.  Maybe I need one like yours.  I wired it according to morpher4's schematic here below, if you don't mind taking a peek...
Miikey

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2010, 04:42:29 PM »
@ sirmikey1

Try the circuit I posted. An ordinary car ignition coil should work. Once you have that working you can try to find a smaller coil that will also work. The "HV" terminal is the plug at the top of the coil.


Offline sirmikey1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2010, 05:17:19 PM »
Hi Guys,

   Slayer sent me a link to purchase the little cell phone charger joule thief thingy. This is one of the better ones, comes with 12 adapters. 

Slayer Recommended buy two and running them together 12volts...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Emergency-Cell-Phone-Power-from-a-AA-Battery-Charger_W0QQitemZ290390529721QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item439c9fd6b9

Mikey
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:31:14 PM by sirmikey1 »

Offline Pirate88179

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8366
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2010, 07:36:32 PM »
sirmikey1:

Thanks, that is a great price for those.

Bill

Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2010, 09:28:46 PM »
sirmikey1, the transistor base, unless it has been severed and insulated, will pick up transient voltage transmissions from the other part of the circuit, even though it appears 'loose' it's still there.

If you try the circuit, try insulating the base lead, with a bit of electrical tape or shrink tube you may notice it stops working as well.

Offline jeanna

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3546
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #118 on: January 18, 2010, 10:03:32 PM »
... Tried the  car coil; takes the AA battery out fast. 

    @jeanna; Agreed, hard to compare.  The JT, the BEMF, would think that every flashlight and portable electrical device on the market would soon have one of these.  8) $...   Chilliqueen NPN never hot with right resistor.  Open circuits, CQ may outrun the JT.  How long before science catches up to this stuff? 


  Meyers forbid resistors/shorting, used chokes instead...   Anyone tried triggering the transistor base with a choke instead of resistance?  That and/or maybe an ultra sensitive NPN base? 
sirmikey,
These are very interesting ideas.
Is a germanium transistor really that available?
It only needs 0.3v to start,
I like the idea of a choke to start it. It is in the arena of the mag amp, which I try to get started on every once in a while, but never get very far, because it seems to need a pulsed power source....

About the amps draw, I think that whatever you find out for amps draw needs to be backed up with how long it takes to drain an AAA battery. And I tend to believe that you have just shown this to yourself.

...And anyway,  if anything can run on less than 1 volt then even my EB can run it and it doesn't matter about battery life.

It was a pm from cq about the overheating, and I never went anywhere with it except to note it.
Because it exceeds my personal limit of 1 transistor, anyway.
If I ever were to make one of them, I would only do it one time out of curiosity.

thank you,

jeanna

Offline xee2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: New Jewel Thief "Resonate LCR Circuit" Much less energy draw....
« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2010, 12:17:21 AM »
@ jeanna

Quote from: jeanna link=topic=8564.msg223709#msg223709 A=1263848612
...And anyway,  if anything can run on less than 1 volt then even my EB can run it and it doesn't matter about A life.

This will run on less than 1 volt and I am sure your EB will supply enough current to run it. You may want to change 2M resistor to lower value to increase brightness of LEDs.