Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83909
  • *Latest: Solhi

  • *Total Posts: 524153
  • *Total Topics: 15602
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 11

Author Topic: Stepping Down a Wimshurst  (Read 40653 times)

Offline gauschor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 09:00:46 PM »
Trying to get usable power from a Wimshurst is an interesting thought. What I've read until now is that no one gets usable power out of it, not even for an LED most websites claim. Considering how painful it is, when you get stroke by it this almost seems unrealistic.

I've built now a Toepler Influence Machine instead of a Wimshurst, powered by handcraft of course ;) The advantage of Toepler is, you must spin only 1 disc, which eases up a lot of headache in construction. I had 16-32 segments and a disc of 50cm diameter. So, the result is... I've been able to light an LED - if I may say so. To be honest, the LED flickers on very very low brightness - but it "works". I put the LED in between the spark gap: one leg connected to the first electrode and the other leg about some millimeters away from the second electrode, therefore the frequency of the discharge sparks is higher. Otherwise if I directly connect both LED-legs with the electrodes the LED goes dark again. So a spark gap obviously is necessary.

Now also interesting is that: I built a Teslacoil and since one conductor of the both electrodes of the Toepler machine is quite long, I used it to create multiple windings for a Teslacoil (the primary windings only) before the conductor reaches the spark gap. If I now touch with one leg of the LED the top/peak of the Tesla Coil (as you know, the coil is not connected to anything) I get the same flickering of the LED (maybe a little darker) as when putting the LED directly in between the spark gap.

I am still not sure if I made something wrong or if the Teslacoil gets its power via some way I did not recognize ... well but that said, it's interesting to experiment with such things.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 09:00:46 PM »

Offline darkspeed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2010, 06:55:54 AM »
gauschor, the led is a diode and you have placed it in the path of a high frequency ( between caps ) high voltage source.

It is most likley dead and just arcing internally.. Try a T-2 neon bulb http://www.normanlamps.com/images/4-T2.jpg this will give you much better results

Offline gauschor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2010, 02:32:08 PM »
Hmmm... thought about that too, that there could only be a discharge in the diode itself. Hard to tell for sure, since the casing is not very transparent. The diode is not dead though, it still works on normal battery input.
Thanks for the hint with the T2, that would definitely show better results I guess.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2010, 02:32:08 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Foggy-Notion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 01:52:59 AM »
Yeah I've heard stories where people with a coil, connected to nothing,
get shocked by it, repeatedly, over and over.  It is getting inducted by
probably radio waves and the lines in their shop.  And indeed could be
used as an inducted collector of no-pay electricity, from the wires in
your wall, without "stealing" their juice at all, regardless of what their
pie hole tries to flap at you.

However you should probably be more concerned with the fact that your
body is absorbing these magnetic waves from the wall at 60mhz all day
long, and this is proven to be bad for you many ways, such studies are
suppressed of course.

Offline sparks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2010, 01:04:12 PM »
     What if we put an ammeter around the spark gap.  There seems to be considerable current flow in a spark gap and the ammeter is designed to convert current flow into voltage without intrusion into the loop circuit.  Least the old ones that you didnt have to put a battery in.  Just an annular ring of laminated steel and carbon.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2010, 01:04:12 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Steven Dufresne

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
    • Non-conventional Energy Experiments
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 04:06:42 PM »
     What if we put an ammeter around the spark gap.  There seems to be considerable current flow in a spark gap and the ammeter is designed to convert current flow into voltage without intrusion into the loop circuit.  Least the old ones that you didnt have to put a battery in.  Just an annular ring of laminated steel and carbon.

Are you sure you're not thinking of measuring voltage with an analog moving coil meter when you say "the ammeter is designed to convert current flow into voltage without intrusion"? My voltmeter has a 10megaohm resistance. Putting this in parallel with the spark gap would cause it to steal proportionally less current. But ammeters are typically only tens to hundreds of ohms, depending on what scale you have them on. The lower the current scale, the higher the resistance. (all this is moot if you have some sort of analog ammeter that's different)

So putting an ammeter in parallel with the spark gap would be shorting out the Leyden jars and the spark gap with a lowish resistance alternate path from one collector to the other collector. Plus, if voltage does build up then when the arc occurs it will cause a sudden rush of current through the ammeter and potentially damage it.

However, if all you care about is grabbing the current in realtime (i.e. with no voltage buildup) that's going from one collector to the other, then widen the spark gap so that it's irrelevant, remove the Leyden jars and just put your ammeter where the spark gap was.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline gauschor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 07:18:56 PM »
Hmmm ok, I give in, it's really pointless to power a LED purely by an electrostatic machine :( It works with the small neon stick though. *Sigh*... how did Baumann created that much power out of it. Peter Lindemann thinks that Baumann caught "cold electricity" using metal grids and that about 20 of these grids with cylindrical form were put into the large tubes on the left and right side. If that is true it would mean that in the center of all these cylinder grids would be a small spark gap. The grid should collect the large amounts of Radiant energy (like in Edwin Gray device). But then why is the big coil around it? Is that the transformer for the much larger current he receives from the grid and uses it to transform it down? Baumann could have put the "collecting grid cylinders" into the large transformer coil simply because of space management...
And if it were that way, how did he manage to create/receive Radiant energy from it? A spark gap only won't be enough for that, or would it? Tesla said he needed the spark to be less than 100 µseconds in duration to achive that effect...If the Testatika disc has 60 segments and makes only 1 full loop per second, it is only a frequency of 60 Hertz, which would be like bulbs in common households. So he has 60 discharges per second on a small sparkgap. But then... isn't the duration of the sparks longer than 100 µseconds? So how would he get radiant energy? Questions over questions... and no answers :(

Anyone already tried to do a simple transform of the high voltage of a Wimshurst into low voltage/larger current? E.g. if I make a 5mm distance in the sparkgap (guessing 1 kV/mm), and want 12 Volts I need to do:

U1/U2 = N1/N2 ... let's say I use 2000 Windings on the primary:
5000/12 = 2000/x => 5000x = 24000 => x = 24000/5000 =~ 5 Windings on the secondary site. Is it even worth to try it out?, because I am sure someone must have done it already with a more or less useful result :s would be nice to hear about that.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:42:54 PM by gauschor »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2010, 07:18:56 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sparks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2010, 12:09:29 AM »
   I was talking about a clampon ammeter that is a common tool for electricians.  It measures the change in the magnetic field about a current carrying conductor.  It only works if the current has some kind of flux density change.  DC ripple or ac.   The currents in the spark gap can easily get to thousands of amperes if a capactor spark gap and dead short are used. 

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 07:35:16 PM »
I was talking about a clampon ammeter that is a common tool for electricians.  It measures the change in the magnetic field about a current carrying conductor. 

@sparks

Yes...that is correct. The ampere probe becomes a
transformer with the external (user) wire becoming
the single (partial) primary turn. Transformers work with
AC only but are non-contact primary to secondary.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2010, 07:35:16 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2010, 07:46:00 PM »
Yeah I've heard stories where people with a coil, connected to nothing,
get shocked by it, repeatedly, over and over.  It is getting inducted by
probably radio waves and the lines in their shop.  And indeed could be
used as an inducted collector of no-pay electricity, from the wires in
your wall, without "stealing" their juice at all, regardless of what their
pie hole tries to flap at you.

However you should probably be more concerned with the fact that your
body is absorbing these magnetic waves from the wall at 60mhz all day
long, and this is proven to be bad for you many ways, such studies are
suppressed of course.


@foggy-notion;

There is a subtle difference between radio EMF waves and magnetic waves.
Radio waves are emitted by the user into freespace and therefore generally
represent lost energy. (Unless the user expects an r^2 diminished echo of some
type). So would be amenable to legal interception.

Pure magnetic field waves on the other hand, link the primary and the secondary windings.
Secondary load is necessary to make the primary conduct. In other the primary user
expects a magnetic echo and pays if the energy is intercepted by something or anything.
So an efficient transformer does "steal" power from it's primary winding.

---

The body does not intercept either type of energy efficiently except at
certain frequencies, but in any case excessive exposure probably is undesirable.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 11:29:35 PM »

Here is a link to the online book;

Modern High-Speed Influence Machines
circa 1922

http://ebook.lib.hku.hk/CADAL/B31428137/

There are entries for electrostatic motors and other stuff.

One of the primary applications back then was HV-DC powersupplies
for x-radiation tubes at 10->15KVdc. Electrons always emit x-rays
when then they decelerate. I wonder if anyone has ever done
an amateur radio QSO contact using a vacuum tube linear amplifier
powered by a Wimshurst machine HV power supply? This as opposed
to spark-gap transmitter which was popular way back then. These two
technologies didn't exist contemporaneously, but they form the
basis, I think, of the Testatika Machine function.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 11:29:35 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline gauschor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2010, 01:16:38 AM »
Back to transforming down a Wimshurst (or in my case a Toepler Machine): I' have seen it work with small neon bulbs, but I still want usable power, even if it's only a LED. While directly putting an LED in between the spark gap of the 2 electrodes (but let remain a small spark gap!) the hardly visible flickering of the LED could have been a spark-discharge in the LED itself.


          sparkgap
 |--------> <---------|
 ||                       ||
 || taker               || taker2
 ||                       ||
 \/                       \/
 o______disc_____o


While the sketch above is the default machine I changed now some things: I made the spark gap very small and and connected the other end of the spark gap with the top of the tesla coil (which has ~ 1600 windings as already said) and the end from "taker1" with the bottom of the coil. Around the Teslacoil I made a small ugly coil (hand made) with about the double diameter than the teslacoil. So it looked like this:
                               
            small coil
               s s s s s                Teslacoil
 |--------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----|
 |             s s s s s                                           |
 |                                                                   |
 |                                                                   |
 |                                   small sparkgap        |
 |                         |---------><----------------------|
 ||                       ||
 || taker1              || taker2
 ||                       ||
 \/                       \/
 o______disc_____o


On both ends of the small coil I connected the LED. Besides I completely removed the Leyden Jar, because it slowed down the spark frequency.

The result is: the LED brightened up significantly by the inducted current. It is still not very bright though, but definitely brighter than directly in between the big spark gap! Also I am pretty sure it is not a discharge within the LED itself. So I guess there has definitely taken place a transformation of the high voltage into something lower voltage, but with more current.

Also it seems that the high voltage likes the Tesla coil much more than the commonly wound coils. When trying to connect both cables to a common coil instead of the teslacoil, the LED could hardly get lit. Therefore Tesla is the way to go.

I am sure there is even more power to catch or transform. Well I'll keep you informed if I find out new things :)

Btw. I hate ASCII Art... :P, next time I will take a picture.

Offline mscoffman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2010, 01:59:18 AM »
Very often they show using a fluorescent lamp lighting up
when touched to a Wimshurst HV supply. Surround the (CFL) lamp
with some solarcells. Those lamps are relatively efficient at
converting high voltage to light. Solar cells are <20% efficient
but you will get some DC current. Besides the auto ignition coil
(at about 30KV) this should work too.  Check out an auto parts
supplier for an auto ignition coil of type suggested in that "Emergency Light"
experiment by Inhotep, they are relatively low cost. Spark Gaps are inefficient
as sparks generally have to travel in both directions across the gap.

---

Here are some experimental calculations. This is for use with a Lord Kelvin
Water Dropper electrostatic generator (see Google). Lets say we can
generate 100microamps at 10 - 15KVdc. Lets say we build a simple
pump from a battery powered alarm clock mechanism to transfer water
back up to the top. Lets say that 100microamps runs the clock mechanism
but at 1.5VDC battery. While it's 100microamps in both cases there is 10K to 1
difference in voltage therefore the same difference in wattage. That's four
orders of magnitude ratio of potential difference for use in any conversion
inefficiency and mis-estimates I may have made in the calculations. So
this looks very doable to me.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Foggy-Notion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2010, 06:16:12 PM »

A quite visible snapping minature lightning bolt even once a second at 100,000+ volts is nothing to sneaze at. And that is the toys we're talking about. A larger one with 4' wheel would have much more power.
Or the smaller toy spinning much faster.

You can charge a battery bank with a 200' insulated wire, thrown up into a tree, with a spark plug on the other end. Connect that to an ignition coil used in reverse and then to the battery bank and ground.

Therefore I am sure a good size Wimshurst could do same, or better, and spins with ease so this is for sure
something that could operate on a wind up spring principle, or a sand bag weight hanging on a hook.

But the fact that it spins so resistance free means it can be machined to perfect ballance and put in a car,
geared quite high to the drive, with no real exra drag or work at all for the engine, yet spin as fast as a CD,
delivering quite a bit more than the hand cranked toys. It means charging batteries en route.
It means 1000+ miles for an electric car between charges, or possibly indefinite driving,

I've never heard about this idea, so I like to call it my own. ;op
Looks good on paper anyway, so does the same idea with a faraday disc, instead of a wimshurst.
Especially if an older analog ampmeter can help utilize the output? ...as Sparks seemed to suggest?
Some other statements caught my eye as well...



Quote:
"The currents in the spark gap can easily get to thousands of amperes
if a capactor spark gap and dead short are used. "

Reply:
What? Really? All originating with a wimshurst? If so, tell me more.



Quote:
"Transformers work with AC only but are non-contact primary to secondary"

Reply:
It is my understanding transformers will work with pulsed DC as well.
Including spiking DC, as from a joule thief, which is a form of pulsation.
Just needs some kind of collapsing field, right?


Quote:
"In other the primary user expects a magnetic echo and pays if the energy is intercepted
by something or anything. So an efficient transformer does "steal" power from it's primary winding."

Reply:
Yeah? Is suppressing free clean energy, confiscating equiptment and murdering inventors, stealing?
ok, just checking, so like all the electronic toys from distraction central are beaming EMF echos
through my body and through my walls, all day anyway, especially my minuture experimental enduction coil
apperatus, so, can they really be sure what the echo is, or for what purpose it's being made?

And if I send the AC to a rectifying DC maker then to a switch, which turns it on and off real fast,
to a long wire far from any grid wires, where at the end, be my primary and 5 induction secondaries,
well, ...what echo?



In any case, if I can pay for the echo, and then send my induction received juice to a battery bank.
then use that battery bank later to power a primary induction coil surounded by 5 secondaries and,
and what?

Power my primary with my battery bank and disconnect from the grid altogether. If they like that better.
Regardless, there must be 100 ways to make free electricity all day long, listed in this forum alone.










« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 06:43:22 PM by Foggy-Notion »

Offline gauschor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Stepping Down a Wimshurst
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2010, 04:57:02 PM »
The last couple of weeks I had to rebuild my Wimshurst/Toepler device multiple times and tried further experiments in order to achieve more power... I wished I could post success, but it didn't  :(

One thing I found out is that the Multimeter is somehow unusable in regards of measuring the Voltage - even though it is stepped down! To recall the construction for readers: I have a Teslacoil (1600 windings) which gets power via a small spark gap. The Teslacoil induces the power into a smaller coil of 50 windings. After that I put the received electric current into a bridge rectifier and attach an LED or the Multimeter on the outer ends.

The Multimeter shows confusing results with following settings:
maximum Voltage 250 V: Display shows ~200-300 Volts
maximum Voltage 200 V: Display shows ~20-30 Volts
maximum Voltage 20 V: Display shows ~1-3 Volts
maximum Voltage 2000mV: Display shows ~1400 mVolts

In fact I do not even know what I am measuring. One good thing however: the step-down process achieved that I have no spikes anymore causing the Voltmeter to hit 1000+ (which happens if directly connecting to the spark gap). The induced Voltage seems "stable". Also the induced Voltage seems to be on the "positive amplitude" only, so it is not an AC but somehow more like pulsed DC. Also I can put the LED directly on the ends of the smaller coil and get the exact same result as with the bridge rectifier.

The weird 300 Volts remember me of the Linden Experiment when Baumann achieved 700 Volts with his "sandwich". Maybe this was the same type of Voltage as the 300 Volts in here. It's not real Voltage it seems, more like a Frequency or some Mixture between Voltage and Frequency?  But in the end... what can you do with this result?

Although the LED is lit up on 1/3 brightness it is not enough to power anything else. You people were totally right. One cannot light up even a 1 Watt-bulb.
Oh wait, I nearly forgot: I can charge a small electrolyte capacitor, so probably it's possible to even recharge a small battery by a lot of handwork ;)

I also built a transformer with 16.000 windings on the larger coil, however the resistance of the long wire caused the induced effect to be much weaker, therefore the LED darker, so not usable at all.

Oh yes.. one other thing: if you take the wire coming from the spark gap you can cut it in two, and put both ends in a cup filled with dry filtersand (the one you use for the swimming pool filters). The electrostatic charge will be transferred without loss obviously (at least withing a 5cm distance). I don't know if it helps anyone though... I just tried it out in hope maybe the crystal sand would oscillate and amplify the power :s

Sigh... that's it. To be honest, I am slowly giving up... The Methernita must have found a secret, something that is not that easy to disclose (as always with secrets). Any new input for experimentation?  :-[
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 09:06:01 PM by gauschor »

 

OneLink