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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 03:50:36 AM

Title: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 03:50:36 AM
This is a new place for posting about getting your EER to fire up a joule thief.

I have not yet been able to do this even with a germanium transistor, but I sure do want to.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 04:08:02 AM
Quote from: freepow  date=1262055096
@ Jeanna

Ok,  1x EER  =  .7 - .9 vdc  at ~4 mA
      2 x EER in parallel  = .7  -.9 vdc  at ~7 ma
I will now try to do what you said...

I think 7mA is a better start for any joule thief.
It is really fabulous that you are starting the oscillations and getting the spikes high enough with 4mA.

These are the special isolated tubes you made are they not?

Does it work to put them in series?
I always get a very weak response when I am using a joule thief and the battery is down below 1 volt.
This is when I am using the secondary, of course.
So, I am definitely not discouraged.
 I am amazed.
You are doing great!

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 04:17:24 AM
Quote from: lasersaber  date=1262054437

I have just started building joule thiefs.  I get totally lost in the joule thief thread every time I start reading it.  Is there a joule thief that you would recommend for me to use with my earth battery?  I have the 5 for 1 toroid from electronics goldmine.  Right now I'm pretty happy just lighting a single bright LED. If I could get lots of them lit then my earth battery might have some practical usefulness right now.  I have over 30 milliamps to play with so I should be able to do it.  Any advice you might have would be greatly appreciated.  If I get it working I will post videos of it here on overunity.  Maybe we should start a thread for earth battery specific joule thiefs.

Thanks

Lasersaber,
You have so many mA for the primary Joule thief you will have ZEEROO problem getting it to light many many more.

I have not found a good tuning for the 5/$1.
 I got my best results using 6T6T, but I think others found a better arrangement.

Maybe someone else can help with that?


Meantime, did you see my tuning suggestions I just gave to freepow?
 I will bring them here in a sec.
First of all, are you using a secondary on the joule thief toroid?

Please start there, and let me know what happens.
Others are surely able to add to this.

thank you,

jeanna

edit
I said the following to freepow to help get the toroid tuned better for the low volts extra low mA from the EER:

Quote
Take the primary down as far as 2T,8T,
If the light goes out or gets dimmer anywhere on the way to 2T stop and add the last turn back.
then start to reduce the 8T and watch the brightness.

The amps draw is related to the initial transistor switching, but if it is too little the volts off the secondary will be too low.

(I am coming to this realization:)
The amps are not being drawn by the leds off the secondary, but they need to have a high spike.
That high spike is derived from the initial amps draw that makes the first JT oscillations.
 So, the higher the spike you can get for the least joule thief input the brighter the leds will shine.

The leds are drawing the frequency down, and when that gets too low, the lights will be too dim.

As the volts go up, the frequency goes down, and with an EER you have high frequency.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on December 29, 2009, 04:17:46 AM
Ok Jeanna, I am going to draw a diagram of my very basic Joule thief for my EER...
I've built better one's than this, but it was just a basic one for my EER
Hope this helps you...

The tubes are as follows... 1x EER =  3/4 inch copper pipe at 19 3/4 inch long and a thin 1/4 inch galv-steel rod 19 3/4 inch long, both in ground,  the copper and steel is only about 2-3 inches apart.

The other EER is the same, but about a foot from my 1st EER.

In series they kind of cancel each other out so the volts stay the same, but in parallel I get nearlly double mA's.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 04:47:34 AM
Yes, freepow, this sounds exactly right.
When I did the probes in the ground and connected them for amps, my volts always went down at the same time.

Anyway, you are doing this exactly right, so see what you can get from 2x or if you want to see the very best tuning possible for your toroid, continue to do the steps I outlined.
And stay with the 1x EER until it is very highly tuned.
The extra amps of 2x EER should not throw off the tuning, but if you perfect it now, you can get better results later...IMO anyway.
 I just copied those suggestions here to make things easier.

I think this is really exciting.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on December 29, 2009, 05:30:03 AM
Jeanna,

I guess I will order some 6T6T toroids.  Do you any suggestions for a place to order from?

I have no secondary on my current joule thief.  Here is a video showing my current setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4D_oj_S6c
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2009, 05:30:24 AM
I think Lasersaber would be a good addition for posting in this topic.  He is up to 50 mA's and counting.

Great idea for a topic Jeanna.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2009, 05:36:42 AM
Actually, in looking at it, I think this topic should be in the Joule Thief topic area.  What do you think?

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on December 29, 2009, 05:36:45 AM
Pirate88179

50 is what I am shooting for.  My highest before the freezing weather was 38.  I will get there sooner or later.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2009, 05:38:44 AM
Laser:

Well, with the progress you have made so far, you will get there very soon I imagine.  I am also glad you are posting videos to show your experiments.  This is good for all of us.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on December 29, 2009, 05:56:23 AM
@ Jeanna, I Have tried your idea on reducing turns etc. LED would not light, so I went back to my normal Bif winding and LED lights...

At least I can now make (garden lights) LOL,  with 1x EER  and free power too !

But I still am trying to get LED brighter, then use many to light house.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 06:05:14 AM
Jeanna,

I guess I will order some 6T6T toroids.  Do you any suggestions for a place to order from?

I have no secondary on my current joule thief.  Here is a video showing my current setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF4D_oj_S6c
Please let me explain,
You already have a toroid on your joule thief, I believe.

The way you make a secondary for it is you wind  30 turns of mag wire, (then remembering to sand the ends off) you then connect the ends to the ends of a led.
There is often a polarity and so if it doesn't light one way try it the opposite way.

Please try this now, if there is still daylight,  and let me know.

thank you,

jeanna

Bill,
It can go either way, but everybody interested in both looks here.
Plus it was in the EB arena where it was suggested.
Those only interested in JT don't bother to look here.
(do you want to moderate another thread?  ;D)

edit
Lasersaber,
It seems you have a LOT of turns on your toroid already.
I am not sure there is any place free for a secondary.
Please let me know the specs of what you have made there.
thanks,
j
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on December 29, 2009, 01:03:25 PM
@ Jeanna

I got a scope shot of my 1x EER running a Joule thief with 11,11 turn Bif + 30 turn secondary = 5.6 volt spikes and a frequency of 909 khz.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 05:55:42 PM
Wow, those are amazing numbers.

I assume this is still with no base resistor. .....fantastic.

Your frequency is high and you can use that to make the lights if you can get the volts higher.
The easiest thing to do now, is to make as many more turns as possible. edit: I mean on the secondary.

If I were doing this, I would add 10 at a time and test  after each addition.

cool,
another thought is...
If the permeability of your toroid is too low for what is happening, you will need more turns.

So, can you add as many as 30 more turns in your toroid?

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on December 29, 2009, 07:07:13 PM
Jeanna,

I have 22 turns on it.  I think I could tighten them up and have room for a secondary.  I did try powering this with just 11 turns and it worked fine.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Jeanna,

I have 22 turns on it.  I think I could tighten them up and have room for a secondary.  I did try powering this with just 11 turns and it worked fine.
That is good news.

The thing about tuning is you need to start somewhere wherever the oscillations begin and subtract as many turns as you can to keep the oscillations going.

The permeability of the toroid makes a very big difference.
 If you can pick choose high permeability. It seems you have what you need.

Normally I would have you start with a 10-20  turn secondary and have you measure what you get by looking at the number of leds IN SERIES you can light between the wires of the secondary.
This gives you a realtime value.
If you own a scope it is easy.
 Look for around 7 volts per each led for decent light. (spiky volts are different from mains volts)

The more turns on the secondary the more volts.
The frequency goes down as the volts go up, but I think the frequency is so high this can go down a lot before the lights go out from that cause.

So, my suggestions now are:
1- reduce the primary to 11 as you had before when it still worked.
2- make a 30 turn secondary and scrape the ends of the wires so you get a good connection to the leds.
3- Reduce and increase the number of turns on that primary to get the brightest lights from the secondary.
4- Later you can make the primary uneven to enhance this even more.
(When you do that, you look for the lowest number of turns connecting to the base of the transistor... like maybe even 2, then reduce the collector turns watching for change in brightness all the while.---and remember to write it all down ;) )

Your work is so encouraging
thank you,

jeanna

edit,
btw, I try to write these kind of instructions for a wide audience.
So, while you probably know about scraping the ends of mag wire, someone lurking out there might need that info.
j
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Foggy-Notion on December 30, 2009, 05:51:22 AM
Is this the famed Jeanna of Youtube's "Jeanna light"

New member
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2009, 08:39:10 AM
Yes, this is the Jeanna of the Jeanna Light circuit.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on December 31, 2009, 04:42:31 AM
Jeanna,

Thanks for the instructions.  Should I use the same gauge wire for both the primary and the secondary?  I have magnet wire from radio shack in three sizes.

I do not really know much about "Jeanna's Light".  Would this be something that I might get to work with my earth battery?  I may want to try building one.

Happy new years
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2009, 06:27:52 AM
Jeanna,

Thanks for the instructions.  Should I use the same gauge wire for both the primary and the secondary?  I have magnet wire from radio shack in three sizes.

I do not really know much about "Jeanna's Light".  Would this be something that I might get to work with my earth battery?  I may want to try building one.

Happy new years
Thanks lasersaber,

You should use the same gauge for both parts of the primary, but the secondary can be anything.
As a secondary the thin red wire gives the best results, but it is very brittle and the varnish is very thin, and there is often a problem with "break-through" voltage (=sparks) which ruin the results although the sparks are too small to see.
I personally like the green 26 gauge wire for secondaries unless the toroid is too little. I think yours is big enough for the 26.
If I were you, I would use 24 gauge telephone wire for the centertapped  primary, and the green for the secondary.

As far as I know "jeanna's light" is a name lidmotor gave to the joule thief that runs off a secondary . It may also designate that it is powerful enough to light a cfl.  ;)
You would need to ask lidmotor.

You are already getting ready to make what jeanna considers a jeanna's light.  ;) and that is to make a useful lamp using only the secondary from a joule thief.
The name came out when I told him all the parts and how to put it together the way I have described here.

Enjoy and keep us posted.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on January 01, 2010, 05:49:29 AM
Jeanna,

I got it working! I can light lots of LEDs right off my earth battery.  They are super bright too. Now I will have to go out and buy a lot more LEDs.  I will post pictures and a video later.  Thanks so much for your help.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2010, 07:18:47 AM
Happy New Year to everyone here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on January 01, 2010, 07:08:28 PM
Earth Battery Lights 61 LEDs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbfxAHC7-c
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 01, 2010, 09:20:47 PM
Earth Battery Lights 61 LEDs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbfxAHC7-c
Very nice
5 stars.
Just to be sure that I understand, I asked on the video if each of the bulbs and the single led are connected to the same place on the secondary.
That would give you 4 separate parallel circuits off the secondary.
I am sure this is what you are doing, but I want to point it out.

And, perhaps you did NOT notice this... the leds in the bulbs are wired in series.
Of course, this is so they don't blow up with the wall power, but it also shows how much you are getting because to light 20 (I counted 19 on mine-I guess I can't count  ;)) leds in series AT ALL is plenty.
I would say you are getting almost too much for the single.
It must be in an amazing balance of high voltage but low enough to not pop that one.

Please let us know the numbers of winds and are you using a resistor? etc.
thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 02, 2010, 12:09:16 AM
Good golly, those aligator clips really dwarf that tupawear.
That's the second smallest food container I've ever seen.
What are you using to pusle your DC?  Or are you?
I mean that looks like a transformer.
You're gonna make me read huh?
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 02, 2010, 12:43:29 AM


What are you using to pusle your DC?  Or are you?
I mean that looks like a transformer.
You're gonna make me read huh?
Hi foggy-notion,

It is the joule thief that makes the pulses.
The toridal transformer has a center tapped primary which runs the normal joule thief light (JTL).
Adding a secondary and removing the normal JTL, allows him to use the spikes of voltage that happen as a result of the switching of the joule thief while keeping the basic dc joule thief circuit unchanged or unaffected.
If you read the first 100 pages of the joule thief thread, you will get all you need. (OR, whatever page it was, read to about the end of last january.)
The rest is repeats and progress to where we are now.

A hint at the pages thing.
Go to your profile and change the number of posts per page from the default to 50. There is less time spent loading the page this way.
It is never boring. There are a lot of great posts and ideas. It is very inspiring to read and nobody should avoid it.

Also, after reading it you might remind us of something we started but never continued last year!

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Foggy-Notion on January 02, 2010, 03:22:20 AM
Well thank you Jeanna,
and is this something I might be able to use to
pulse the HV low ampre jucie from my Wimshurst?
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 02, 2010, 06:11:33 AM
....
and is this something I might be able to use to
pulse the HV low ampre jucie from my Wimshurst?
;D ;D ;D
you run out of hands really fast with the wimhurst machine, but please try it and report.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on January 02, 2010, 10:19:40 AM
Hello  LASERSABER, from freepow

How many volts and mA's are you getting from your EER (Earth battery) to light 61 LED's ???
And are all 61 LED's lit bright ???

Oh !  and very well done on your Joule thief powered by your EER !!!

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on January 02, 2010, 11:17:17 PM
Jeanna,

Each of the bulbs and the single LED are connected to the same place on the secondary.  I did pop a few LEDs.  I am not using a resistor.  There are 64 or 65 winds on the secondary.  I counted it twice and got a different number each time.  I spent almost a whole day winding and unwinding that toroid.

Thanks so much for your help.  I would not have been able to make this without it.


Freepow,

I am at 1.650 and 40 milliamps on my earth battery.  I am about to start expanding my system some more and I am sure that I will be able to up my milliamps.  I will post my results.

The bulb LEDs are not what I would call bright but maybe that is because they are in series.  They are also a different kind of LED.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2010, 07:28:31 AM
I guess last summer I went the wrong way.
I got some advice and added resistance to the base.
Since both of you have removed the resistor, I think that is what I shall do next as well as add a straightened out roll of bare copper wire to the north.
If that adds a promising amount, I will get some mag ribbon. (soon, that is. I will get it in the summer anyway.)

@lasersaber,
Gadgetmall introduced us to those leds. They are called straw hat leds.
If you have them on and the light shines onto the ceiling it looks like light going through a straw hat. It is pretty and it also gets the light going sideways some.

And, yes, they are very dim because they are in series.

They have a couple of protective caps in the circuit which gives the bulb some other properties... like you can get it to light a nite light's worth on almost no energy.
I took a pic last night of mine running on 0.5v from a near totally dead AAA, and it was the same brightness as yours.
So, this is what you are doing.
If you removed the caps you might get one to light and of course as many more as you like in parallel to that first one...(well, I think.)
But then you would have to resolder the leds.
I am very encouraged by this.
It was warm today and maybe there will be time to plant a few wires tomorrow! ;D

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on January 05, 2010, 02:17:32 PM
Jeanna,

Based on some experiments I did last weekend, I think that if you just add copper wire to your North end you will see almost no effect.  It may seem like that is all I did, but you have to remember that I had mag ribbon running on my south end from the start.  A few days ago I took the same mag ribbon and put it in a coil and buried it on my south end and my milliamps dropped to under 10 milliamps.  If I run that same ribbon out straight heading south my milliamps climb back up to normal.  I just received my bulk order of mag ribbon.  I would like to send you a roll for free in appreciation for the help you gave me on the joule thief.  If you'd like that, pm me your mailing address and I'll ship it out soon.

Soon I will post some graphics showing exactly what I have done on my earth battery.  I think you already understand what I have done, but the graphics may help others who are just starting to build these.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2010, 10:28:10 PM
Thank you lasersaber.
I am glad to know which end makes the bigger difference.
I have 2 EER's
1- a plain EB with Cu and Zn dipped nails

2- a longer more complex one with carbon welding rods and zinc dipped nails.
I am pretty sure that there is a little magnesium in the dipping solution. I think the hardware store guy said this, but ??
I actually do have some zinc coated wire which I bought for another reason and I can try that on the south end... when it stops raining.
It might be several months before it is both dry and warm enough to think about touching metal outside.

Please keep going and let me know.
Do you need a supplier for leds?
Are you looking to solder them yourself?
There are 2 different sources from china that sell 100 super brights for 8.99 on ebay no shipping.
jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on January 05, 2010, 11:22:23 PM
I would be interested in the seller link for the LEDs.  I bought a LED flashlight at WalMart the other night just to take it apart and get the LEDs out of it.  I got 36 bright white LEDs for $19.99 out of that light.  100 for under $10.00 sounds like an amazing deal.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 06, 2010, 12:32:03 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/500-White-5mm-LED-Light-Lamp-14000mcd-12v-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160323580646QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255407b2e6
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/500-White-5mm-LED-Light-Lamp-14000mcd-12v-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160323580646QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255407b2e6)
---
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-50-white-10MM-LED-light-Lamp-12V-DC-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160346314979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item25556298e3
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-50-white-10MM-LED-light-Lamp-12V-DC-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160346314979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item25556298e3)
---

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Bright-White-5MM-LED-Light-Lamp-12V-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160346336245QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255562ebf5
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Bright-White-5MM-LED-Light-Lamp-12V-Free-Resistor_W0QQitemZ160346336245QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255562ebf5)

the price has changed to only include shipping on the order of 500. It is still less than $10/100

The legs are shorter than others.
At first this made it a little awkward, but I am used to it and it is not a problem.

Last year hazens had a name for us, but I don't find them. But I didn't see these guys from a regular search either.
I will see if hazens source is anywhere on my computer.
----------------
different company

http://stores.ebay.com/Wellton-Superbright-Led-Store (http://stores.ebay.com/Wellton-Superbright-Led-Store)
these guys have diffused leds
and
very wide angle but the price is double.

The throwies are made from diffused leds. Oh I am sooo tempted.!!

 ;),
jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 07, 2010, 04:45:53 AM


Here the leds hazens1 recommended which are  $ 22 for 500!!!

http://shop.ebay.com/dxy_dxyduan/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686 (http://shop.ebay.com/dxy_dxyduan/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686)

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on January 20, 2010, 08:38:49 PM
Hi guys I am going to build earth batteries with copper coils.These coils is said to give high voltage but very little ma. How can I modify the voltage to run a JT bedini circuit that runs on an AA battery. This circuit consumes around 750ma.
Maybe a cap to a regulator?
Any help please?
Thanks
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 20, 2010, 11:20:42 PM
Hi guruji,

I am going to follow what lasersaber is doing.
He is getting much higher mA into his EER than any of us ever did.

The EER is very close to starting a jt anyway and if it needs tweaking, it looks easier to follow those ideas than a cap.
Also, there is historical background for what he is doing. (The nickel dropped in lasersaber's head and hands), so lets try it.

My opinion.

jeanna

I just got my 500 leds from dxy duan today!!!
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on January 21, 2010, 02:17:03 PM
Hi guruji,

I am going to follow what lasersaber is doing.
He is getting much higher mA into his EER than any of us ever did.

The EER is very close to starting a jt anyway and if it needs tweaking, it looks easier to follow those ideas than a cap.
Also, there is historical background for what he is doing. (The nickel dropped in lasersaber's head and hands), so lets try it.

My opinion.

jeanna

I just got my 500 A from dxy duan today!!!

Hi Jeanna thanks for response yes I saw those photos but it seems that it has to take alot of land for more ma :-\. Hope lasersaber will try to find a device that gather ma from a small area.
Thanks
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 21, 2010, 07:50:12 PM
Hi Jeanna thanks for response yes I saw those photos but it seems that it has to take alot of land for more ma :-\. Hope lasersaber will try to find a device that gather ma from a small area.
Thanks

In my experience with this subject, there are many of us who have many ideas.
Nobody wants to try out somebody else's ideas.
So, my advice to you is to try to find this yourself. There is still a lot of room in this sandbox, so c'mon in and play.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on January 21, 2010, 09:15:31 PM
Hi guys I heard that if one wind a coil to an aluminium rod with plastic mesh in between gives good results while adding more and more on same rod with same procedure.
One can do many of these near each other with diode on each.
Heard from a good source ;).
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on January 26, 2010, 08:27:01 PM
Hi lasersaber,

   Way to go on your EER research! I've been keeping an eye on this thread as well as your videos!

   Question: When you bury the magnesium ribbon/rope, is it in contact with the soil? Will it corrode? I haven't tried your method yet, so I'm curious and hope to repeat your experiment soon. I'm also a newbie with this technology and hooked for life! If corrosion is a possibility, could you put the rope in a PVC conduit and bury that? Would it change the results in volts/amps? To inhibit the corrosion, you could put sacraficial anodes in the conduit.

   It's a theory. The sacraficial anodes I have are rated at 2 years life expectancy (google zerust). You can buy a pack of 10 tabs (around 1"W x 3 or 4"L) here in the US at Fry's Electronics for around $.88. They really work!

   I've been experimenting with water batteries (copper with 1/2" zinc plated bolt) and found a way to keep the zinc from corroding while in contact with the water by using a sacraficial anode. When I do this, my amps jump up, but the volts seem to stay the same. I've had to put my research off since late October because my father had cancer and I spent a lot of time taking care of him (he passed in December) and I'm finally trying to get back to playing with these concepts!

   Again, when I used the zerust tabs on my water batteries (reduced them to the size of a D-cell sized battery), the corrosion stopped, but the water also appeared to evaporate much faster. There was a small amount of white residue left after the water evaporated. I still need to do a lot more testing on that to confirm, but controlling the corrosion was the top priority in my tests. You could try this with your rope if there's corrosion.

   My batteries put out around .9 volts and 1.2 milliamps each. With a squeeze of lemon, both increased and still no rust! I would run them in series; around 3 to power a super bright LED for 2 weeks. I had a set-up running for 3 weeks and was afraid to move it. The water had evaporated over a week into the test but it ran for 2 more weeks. Anyway, I'd like to post pics of my work to the appropriate thread, so if anyone would like to assist, let me know. I can post Youtube videos as well.

   So, the question is, do you know if there's any signs of your magnesium rope/ribbon corroding?

   Keep up your research!!!! I'm so excited to try your experiment ASAP!

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 10, 2010, 08:29:38 PM
Hi,

   I finally had a chance to play around with lasersaber's magnesium ribbon concept last night. Last weekend, I received my (2) 75ft magnesium ribbons and finally had time to put together a quick experiment, but I adapted it to act like a water battery instead.

   I tried my conduit idea as described in the last post. I took a 1" PVC pipe at 2ft long; (2) plastic H-shaped strips at 2ft long. I took 1 of the plastic H-shaped strips and wrapped 48" to 52" of magnesium ribbon around it so that none of the loops would touch each other. I took the other H-shaped plastic strip and wrapped 48" to 52" of bare copper wire (I think 18-gauge) in the same fashion. I left around 3 to 4" loose at the end to act as the leads.

   I took both strips, slipped them into the PVC pipe with the leads sticking out one end and capped off the other end (duct taped one end). I filled the PVC with water and checked around 1 minute later with my meter.

   It showed 1.36v and > 5 milliamps (around 5.3). After around 30 minutes, I noticed the milliamps dropped to around 3.5, but the volts stayed the same. I'll try to play with it again tonight.

   I haven't had a chance to build the EER Joule Thief as described in this thread (REALLY EAGER TO), but my basic JT (which runs on 1-AA) did work with this contraption and lit a super LED for 1 second. After 1 second, the LED dimmed rapidly. So, I'll need to build a EER JT and tweak it. I did rapidly scratch the leads on the basic JT which made the super LED to light brightly I assume each time it spiked, but if I left it connected, the LED dimmed.

   I'll can post pictures if you'd like :-) Let me know. So, I was able to bottle this in PVC and it can be stored indoors outside of the freezing weather. I still wonder about corrosion. I haven't worked with magnesium before. So, I left the water in the PVC and will check this weekend for signs of corrosion. If there's corrosion, I'll try the sacraficial anodes. They seem to work under water.

   I have other ideas to perfect the cell, but I feel this was a successful experiment :-) Hope this helps y'all!

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 11, 2010, 02:42:36 AM
Hi in3d,
welcome to this thread of avid eer experimenters.
You can't even wait to get outside...this is very avid!!

I know what you mean about corrosion being important to stop.
The very interesting thing is that where the same 2 electrodes corrode in a day if used inside with some kind of electrolyte added this does not seem to happen outside or at least in the soil.

I would like someone with mg ribbon (=you or lasersaber) to make a run in 2 big flower pots inside and see what happens. I think there should be some good plants in those pots too.
philodendron is a good cheap houseplant that you can get almost anywhere.

Experiment scheme:
Buy 2 plants and 2 big pots or just the 2 bags of sterilized soil and cut the tops of the bags to let the wire snake around in the soil and not touch itself etc. then add the plant to each bag and water it once a week. Use one bag for copper wire and the other for mg wire.
Do not add any lemon or salt, just water and the plant. (rocks to keep your cat out of it.)
The extent to which the currents are present is a baseline for what happens outside with these same materials.
So, it is really a necessary control experiment anyway, and the best part is you don't need to wait for warm weather!!  :D

sounds like fun to me.
and again... welcome,

jeanna

Quote
I haven't had a chance to build the EER Joule Thief as described in this thread (REALLY EAGER TO), but my basic JT (which runs on 1-AA) did work with this contraption and lit a super LED for 1 second. After 1 second, the LED dimmed rapidly. So, I'll need to build a EER JT and tweak it.
I wonder if you take the base resistor way down what will happen.
Going on for one second then off sounds like a worn out battery for sure, but maybe lowering the base resistor can help here too. I have not tried this yet.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 12, 2010, 11:07:29 PM
Hi Jenna,

   Wow, I can see where you're going with the plant method. I'll begin this weekend playing with your concept (2 plants). I'm actually here in the southern-central US and yesterday, we suffered the worst snow storm in 32 years! My yard received 6 inches of snow, but other places within 30 miles received over 10 inches! It's proving to be very difficult to play with EER outdoors these days, which is why I decided to bottle the experiments and play indoors. I can try the plant method, but I don't have many good windows in the house. I'll need to set up an indoor day-light flourescent for the plants.

   I can understand your explanation for corrosion and the same 2 electrodes. I now have (2) 2ft magnesium ribbon and copper water batteries. The first one I made on Feb 10, the 2nd 2 nights ago. Both produced around the same volts and milliamps, but what I discovered was that the magnesium produces a white milky residue in the water after a day or two. I discovered the same effect after using the Zerust corrosion tabs in my other water batteries (the milky residue). So, I assume Zerust uses magnesium in their product. Also, the entire water evaporates within a day. I pulled the magnesium out of the 2ft PVC pipe today and can see it's discolored from being in contact with the water. The copper looks fine. So, I'm eager to try your approach.

   So, if adding the magnesium to the soil, I wonder if it will also cause the moisture in the soil to evaporate as well. You may have to water the plant more often.

   LOL, maybe if the potted plant method works, the collected energy from the EER into a EER JT can go into an EER powered compact daylight flourescent bulb?? It'd almost be perpetual motion if only we could produce rain from the water evaporating from the soil.

POTTED PLANT STEPS:
============================

(1) Obtain 2 sphagnum moss baskets (google this; probably easier to lay out the magnesium and copper in a coil), but the basket can go in a separate hard-lined container.
(2) Line 1 basket inside with copper; the other with magnesium ribbon; use muddy soil balls to get the copper or magnesium to stick to the wall, then backfill with drier soil.
(3) Fill the remainder of the pot with soil and then add the plant.

   The sphagnum moss basket may make it easier to weave in the wire & ribbon.


Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 11:17:18 PM
Hi Shannon,

This will be very interesting.
Maybe get 3 plants, one for plant" control".

I have heard that electrical charge is what plants get from sunlight and not light and heat as we assume.
It is an experiment I am planning to set up soon, but you can start it too,
Philodendron is a cheap and hardy house pant that can go without much light for quite a while.
If you have the room make 2 of those moss pots as you described, then place the 3rd plant nearby to get the same amount of light and heat.

You can compare water in the soil over time too.
It is very interesting that the water evaporated so quickly.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 12, 2010, 11:46:12 PM
Enclose it in a terrarium type enclosure or even a clear plastic bag arrangement and it will "rain" and put the moisture back into the soil and none will be lost.

Just a thought.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on February 13, 2010, 01:29:15 PM
Hi Shannon and Jeanna nice experiments that you're doing. I read in these forums that by putting a copper wire from a collector outside to the soil inside even in the dark;plants still grow.
I will try this too.
I did an Earth battery with to seperate rods in parallel. In the first 3days they gave me about 0.4v at 0.5ma then after a week 0.5v at 1ma and now 0.55v at 2.11ma.
It seems that something is happening and voltage and current are increasing.
Thanks
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 14, 2010, 12:18:31 AM
@guruji,
When you are leaving them outside are they connected?

I have never tried to leave them connected over night. Maybe that is what I need to do??
This is great. You are doing great today!

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on February 14, 2010, 09:23:13 AM
@guruji,
When you are leaving them outside are they connected?

I have never tried to leave them connected over night. Maybe that is what I need to do??
This is great. You are doing great today!

thank you,
jeanna

HI Jeanna if you're reffering to plants I have to try it I told you. If you're reffering to Earth Battery I put two rods in parallel outside in the garden and yes left them connected.
Jeanna even you are doing great today :)
Bye bye.

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 14, 2010, 09:28:26 PM
.... I put two rods in parallel outside in the garden and yes left them connected.
.....
Wow, thanks for that bit of info. I bet this makes a big difference in my EER research.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 14, 2010, 10:10:23 PM
Hy y'all :-)

   I went to the local hardware store yesterday (Home Depot) and they didn't have much of a selection for indoor plants; not even one variety of philodendron. I'll try a couple other stores nearby.

   You know, I've studied earth living systems in the past such as trees and plants; how they really do aid to the environment. For example, when trees are stressed, they perspire aspirin. See: http://treesandshrubs.about.com/b/2008/09/24/stressed-walnut-trees-produce-aspirin-talk-to-other-plants.htm ... trees communicate in their own way; I bet so do plants :-)

   I've worked with plants outdoors and believe they work better in communities (grouped together). I'd believe they can be used to aid in Earth batteries as the evidence suggests.

   I ran a quick experimented and put the magnesium ribbon and copper in 2 separate pots of dirt without plants (magnesium in one, copper in the other) ... I watered the soil and checked 10 minutes with my meter; there's around 1.36 volts, but no ams :-( I've checked several times throughout the day with no change except the volts change slightly.

   Maybe it's because the soil is separated?

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 14, 2010, 10:19:25 PM
Shannon,
NO amps as in 0.00?
If that is what you are getting it is very likely to be a fuse blown in the amps circuit of your meter.
It takes almost nothing to blow those darn fuses, so I am saying this to you and everybody.

Why don't you leave the 2 wires connected as guruji just described and check later.
(I got some philodendrons from wallmart. They were on sale too. Maybe last years stock. Spiderplants will do ...anything.)

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: guruji on February 15, 2010, 01:14:29 PM
Hi Jeanna I would like to explain my setup. One of my A is a piece of aluminium from a tv areal and rapped a coil to it with a cloth in between than put it in soil.
The other the contrary. I took a square pipe from the aerial opened it and put a copper pipe in it rapped in a cloth with a piece of wire steel around it. Another thing I took pieces of fibreglass from a sheet and put them in too. This sounds crazy but when I read on orgone generators I tried these too. In the end I closed everything and put in soil and connected it with the other rod in parallel.
Volts and amps still getting higher ;)
That's all.
Thanks
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 15, 2010, 03:51:58 PM
Hi Jeanna,

   Actually, I replaced the fuse in my meter around 2 weeks ago (lent the meter to my brother who blew the fuse). So, I checked the meter after you asked and it's operating normally. It was working normally last night. Tuesday will be the next day I'm available to play with the EER (busy week), so I'll let you know.

   I went to Walmark last night and they had Philo Brazil plants, which are Philodendrons. I bought 4 of them, but didn't have time to repot them. I also bought 4 hanging Coco baskets. The temperature outside has been steady at around 32ºF at night, so I'll need to leave them indoors. I'll work on them ASAP.

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on February 15, 2010, 05:09:16 PM
Quote
   I ran a quick experimented and put the magnesium ribbon and copper in 2 separate pots of dirt without plants (magnesium in one, copper in the other) ... I watered the soil and checked 10 minutes with my meter; there's around 1.36 volts, but no ams :-( I've checked several times throughout the day with no change except the volts change slightly.

   Maybe it's because the soil is separated?

In my experience If you have the soil separated you will get no milliamps.  The wires need to be in the same body of soil.  Awhile back I made crude a NS coil and did some interesting tests.  When I placed the coil in my creek it generated 100 milliamps.  When I placed it in a plastic bucket containing the same creek water it only produced 50 milliamps.  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8640.0  I wonder what would happen if you grounded your soil pots?

Right now I am in the process of building a very faithful replication of the NS coil.  I found out that it's hard to get soft iron and cotton covered wire.  I have all the parts on order now.  I will post my results here on this forum.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 15, 2010, 06:01:25 PM
Hi Lasersabre,

   I also think the 2 wires need to be in the same soil, but will continue testing with the separate pots. I may buy a long coco fiber pot, submerge it in a long/large plastic planter trough and keep it indoors with philos in it.

   I believe the moving creek water is the result of the higher milliamps. It reminds me of Lord Kelvin's Dropper (I REALLY want to test that this Spring) where they theorized expanding the concept and funneling a waterfall through massive coils. Perhaps if you were to put a small water pump or bilge pump in the bucket to cycle the water, the milliamps may increase.

   BTW: I took my (2) 2ft PVC magnesium and copper wire water batteries (12ft of each wire) on Saturday (both wires in the same cell x 2), wired them in series and hooked them to a JT with a secondary; they lit 2 super bright LED's steady for 24 hours (1 LED on the primary; 1 on the secondary), but began pulsating rapidly after 24hrs (Sunday evening). This morning, they were still pulsating at the same rate with no apparent slow-down. The JT is the same basic one created at the URL shown below (same sized toroid), but I wound the primary half way around the toroid and the secondary a smaller gauge wire around 30 times. When I added a second LED to the secondary, it cancelled out the first LED on the secondary, but the primary LED remained on. Both LEDs were rapidly flickering this morning.

The JT I'm using, except with a secondary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAqGKt64WM

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 15, 2010, 06:11:01 PM
It is interesting to have some definitive answers on these things
Same pot.
Keep the wires connected to enhance rather than drain...etc.

Right now I am in the process of building a very faithful replication of the NS coil.  I found out that it's hard to get soft iron and cotton covered wire.  I have all the parts on order now.  I will post my results here on this forum.
Be careful!!
When we researched those places selling cotton covered wire, we found that the wire was enameled wire and not at all bare copper. This will waste a lot of time if you make this and find non bare copper wire deep in your NS coil!!!

I love what all you fresh experimenters are doing. This is going somewhere.
Don't you agree, Bill?

jeanna

edit add

Quote
The JT is the same basic one created at the URL shown below (same sized toroid), but I wound the primary half way around the toroid and the secondary a smaller gauge wire around 30 times. When I added a second LED to the secondary, it cancelled out the first LED on the secondary, but the primary LED remained on. Both LEDs were rapidly flickering this
If the led goes out when you add a second one in series it means you have about 7-10v spikes on your secondary.
This is very good information.
30T giving you 7-10v might just mean the frequency is very very high, like MHz (which it is).
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2010, 07:31:55 PM
Jeanna:

I totally agree.  The more folks we have that are building and experimenting, the more results we will see, both on what to do, and what not to do. (equally important in my view)

You have always asked folks to post stuff that didn't work out like they thought so that others could learn from that.  I still think this is a very good idea.

I am glad you pointed that out to Lasersaber about the cotton covered wire.  Some of the wire like that I looked into had a teflon liner between the cotton and the wire.  Maybe someone will find a source of true cotton insulated wire very close to what they used to use in NS's day.  That would really open thing up for us.

I am still considering contacting a factory that makes shoelaces for tennis shoes.  All of my laces are actually cotton tubes that have been ironed flat.  If we could get a good sized roll of this (I am sure they make it in long tubes) it would still be a lot easier to insert our wire into the tubes as opposed to wrapping it or using string like I did.  If I am right about this, it should be pretty economical...well... hopefully.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on February 15, 2010, 07:59:48 PM
Hi Bill,
They do. I used to buy shoelace by the 2kyard roll. It is cheap too, but remember, it still has to be loaded onto the wire.
If you sew it around the wire it will be secure and you only need to do a yard at a time.
I really don't think there is an easy way..
 ;)
=============
@all,

I wanted to correct a mix-up I made.
It turned out well, so that is great.

I was thinking about 2 series EER's in 2 pots when I suggested one in each.
I am glad I suggested it because it is a good control.

But it certainly makes sense that nothing happens.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 15, 2010, 08:09:04 PM
Hi,

   I did a quick Google on: "cotton wire sheath" and found:

http://magnetoparts.com/wire.htm

   They specify the cotton has a shiny lacquer finish. They also state that "All use a cotton woven jacket over a modern wire insulation material".

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2010, 08:32:51 PM
Hi,

   I did a quick Google on: "cotton wire sheath" and found:

http://magnetoparts.com/wire.htm (http://magnetoparts.com/wire.htm)

   They specify the cotton has a shiny lacquer finish. They also state that "All use a cotton woven jacket over a modern wire insulation material".

Shannon

"Modern wire insulation material".  Exactly.  That is the type of thing I too have found in looking for a source.  I guess one could buy that and remove the cotton and strip the wire and put the wire back but, I think it would be easier and cheaper to use the shoelace approach since Jeanna said it is available on rolls at reasonable cost.

At least we would only have to put the wire through once.  I think that if we soldered a sphere onto the end of the wire we were pushing through the tubing, it might not be all that bad to slide over the length of the wire needed to make a coil.  If the gauge of the copper wire was large enough, I don't think we would have to do anything else to the wire or tubing except wind it bifilar onto our core.

I need to find a bunch of money (to pay bills) before I can try this but, I will give it a go when I can.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: lasersaber on February 15, 2010, 09:02:34 PM
This is where I ordered my wire from:  http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 22, 2010, 06:48:14 PM
Hi guys,

   Sorry for the delay. I've been under the weather for the last few days (finally feeling better) and work has kept my schedule full. I'm in the process of creating a YouTube channel and will be posting videos soon. I don't have any new information, but I'm very eager to get back to testing the planter idea :-) I made several videos of the creation process into making the planter and also received a new shipment of magnesium ribbon in the mail. Unfortunately, I've been sick the last few days and Saturday was such a wonderful sunny day (much like Spring!!). Now, there's snow returning for 2 to 3 days :-( Wierd weather lately. I'm so ready for Spring!

   Oh, the (2) PVC magnesium and copper water cells I created a couple weeks ago are still powering 2 LED's through a Joule Thief with a secondary. I haven't touched them since the night I hooked them up, but the LED's are still rapidly flickering the same rate and they've become much more bright. I'm curious if there's still water in the cells. I'd think the water would have evaporated by now. So, I'll need to examine them this week.

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on February 25, 2010, 11:54:53 AM
To anyone, does anyone know where I can get a 3.25 inch ferrite core toroid, same type used in jeanna's light ?????
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on February 25, 2010, 04:24:16 PM
Good question ... I haven't been able to find anything over 2" for online purchase here in the US. I just recently purchased (4) 2" toroids, but now 4 days into having a tracking code, the post office says the package hasn't shipped yet .... hmmm. Can't wait until they get here :-)

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 02, 2010, 06:25:01 AM
Hi guys,

   I'm back and loading my videos onto my new YouTube channel (ID = eeresearcher). The first set of videos is a 6-part set where I made 1 EER battery in a 30" long planter (24" liner). I had all the video recorded, took readings with plans to get back to it in a couple days (we had some warm weather), but unfortunately my German Shepherd thought the planter was meant for him to play with :-( I went out on Sunday morning and found the entire planter completely destroyed :-(

   At first, I couldn't find even find the Philodendron plants .... Ooooo, I was so upset! As I dug to find the magnesium with the tangled mess of coconut liner, I found the plants upside down in the dirt. I managed to save the plants and a lot of the magnesium plus copper for other projects, so it wasn't so bad. I'm still very upset with my dog, but I shouldn't have left the plants outside in the first place for him to get to :p I put them in the front yard and it's around 50ºF tonight. This set of videos are being uploaded to YouTube as I type this.

   On Sunday, I found time to rebuild the planter, but this time with 2 round coconut liners. I wired both up with their own set of magnesium and copper. One liner has 2 plants ... the second has the 3rd plant. I will be uploading these videos most likely tomorrow.

   The first planter with the 24" liner, I received ~1.7 volts and ~6 milliamps. The second planter with 2 separate wirings in series resulted in around 3.3 volts and around 14 to 15 milliamps. I hooked a bright red LED and it was very bright. Again, I made videos of the second planter. I left the planter out overnight (moved it to the front of the house!!!) and over 24 hours later, the red LED is still VERY BRIGHT. Stay tuned to those videos :-)

   Oh, on the (4) 2" toroids I purchased on Ebay, I'm still waiting on them :-( I contacted the seller today and my tracking number comes back that USPS has only received the shipping information. The seller said he dropped them off at the post office, but they show that they haven't shipped yet. Hmm.

   I wired up many small magnesium and copper water cells last night and it doesn't take much at all to power a bright LED! (2) water batteries (similar to the size of C-cell batteries) can easily power an LED. I'll make videos with step-by-step instructions soon :-) I used to use the same concept with 1/2" zinc bolts, but I replaced the zinc with magnesium. However, the magnesium begins to tarnish (turns black) after 24 hours. I purchased a package of non ferrous corrosion resistent material today to see if I can control the tarnishing of the magnesium, but the way I'm putting these cells together, it's very easy to replace the magnesium and you don't need that much!

   That's all for now! I'll write again soon!

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 02, 2010, 08:14:37 PM
Hi guys,

   I uploaded the first set of videos (6 parts), but YouTube is only showing the first 4, so I'll need to check tonight when I get home why the last 2 are not displayed. I'll work on uploading the second set of videos this evening. My outdoor EER planter with red LED is still brightly lit 2+ days later without any Joule Thief attached.

   Last night, I made a how-to video of 2 magnesium and copper water cells powering a bright blue LED without a Joule Thief. I had several built from mid last week and they're still powering the same LED. All I've been doing is topping it off with water each evening, but the magnesium is starting to tarnish (I believe that's the term for magnesium, which is a non ferrous metal). My package of anti-tarnishing material is enroute in the mail, so I hope it'll work as good as the zerust tabs did with my zinc bolt copper water cells to prevent the rust. I found out how to record longer videos on my cell phone, so the water cells are non-stop hand-held, so you can see project start to finish with results.

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 02, 2010, 08:23:07 PM
Shannon:

Please post a link or 2 to your videos here and then I will subscribe to your channel so I can see all of them.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 02, 2010, 08:41:12 PM
Hi Bill,

   My YouTube channel is:

http://www.youtube.com/eeresearcher

   Sorry, I'm at a place where YouTube is blocked from the local network, so I cannot provide the exact URL to the videos, but here are the titles of my first 6 videos. Normally you can just type in the title in YouTube's search box. Their search algorithym functionality has improved over the last 6 months. I may need to reupload the last 2 tonight.

Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 1 of 6
Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 2 of 6
Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 3 of 6
Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 4 of 6
Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 5 of 6
Earth Battery in 24 inch planter - 6 of 6

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 11, 2010, 08:53:37 PM
Hi guys!

   I'm back with some updates and recovering from severe allergies (spring has sprung!!), which knocked me out for a few days  :p I've posted some more videos to my 'eeresearcher' YouTube channel with more updates on the way. My 3 philodendron plant experiment (2 batteries in a 30" planter) still continues to run non-stop now for almost 2 weeks and with no sign of tarnishing on the magnesium! I'm impressed!

   I made 2 other smaller container batteries using magnesium ribbon and copper wire (I have videos to upload).

   The first test was in a plastic tupperware style container which I placed 3 copper wires and 3 magnesium ribbon clippings of different lengths (to see if there's a noticeable difference in the length), separated with dirt. I made a drainage hole to let the water seep out the bottom. When I initially hooked them up in series, I received over 5 volts and around 6+ milliamps, but then it stopped around 20 minutes into the testing. I fiddled with it a little and had to put it aside.

   The next day, I made the 2nd container, which was a small 12"x6" plastic greenhouse planter with clear lid (came with several dehydrated peat-pellets). The peat-pellets had a fiber around them once they became saturated to maintain their shape, so this made it easy to wrap magnesuim around the expanded peat-pellet pots. I then dropped the magnesium wrapped peat pellet into a dry pressed peat pot and wrapped that pot with copper. I made 3 of these and put them in the 12"x6" plastic greenhouse planter. I watered the pot, also received around the same results: 5+ volts and 6+ milliamps. Hmm ... but then I had the same issue where it stopped working. I think the moisture in the dirt was shorting it out (same as previous experiment). I left both pots, 3 cells each hooked up in series to a LED.

   So, 3 or 4 days ago, I came home from work late at night and to my suprise, they were both working!! And VERY brightly! I haven't had a chance to test readings, but they're working :-) Neither of these are running a joule thief.

   Oh, I did receive my package of 2" toroids .... they're much bigger than I expected! I haven't had a chance to wire them up yet, but I'm excited to try this weekend :-)

   From what I can see, the individual cells needs to isolated to keep the moisture in the soil between each cell from contacting each other. The coconut liner appears to be a good thing, but simple damp soil will cancel things out. It rained a couple days this week, but the 2 wet dirt batteries still worked. There must have been a short when they first didn't work, but they eventually worked a day or two later without me fiddling around :-)

   Neither of the 2 tests this past weekend involved plants in the planters.

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 13, 2010, 04:10:26 AM
Hi Shannon.
This is a great report.

It is wonderful that they started to work after they did not.
To me this means something is being replenished by the soil.

I see this in this way:
The first few days or hours you are getting a galvanic reaction. It is like being in a pot of water and is a regular battery, which dwindles over time. [Jim electricme had this problem with his very large array of copper pipes with zinc spikes which he kept isolated from the earth with plastic bags.
Jim added the plastic and the galvanic response worked as you would expect. There was corrosion over time.]
Then after a few days something in the soil gets lined up , maybe microbes are helping (my pet idea) or something else, but the fact that the volts n amps increases to light the led again means a lot.


This experiment of yours is showing promise of a very different type, and I am very encouraged.

What do you mean they are not running a joule thief? Just that it is straight from the ground?
Are you clarifying that you have not done this with a jt yet?

Oh this is so cool!
thank you for sharing the details of this,

btw, I love the peat pots idea.
It almost looks like a wound capacitor in my head. I wonder if that could be possible?

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 26, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
Hi Jeanna and all,

   Sorry for the long delay, I've been so unbelievably busy over the last few weeks and haven't had time to post videos because they take so long to transfer & upload, but I've created videos as I get time. I get up early and don't get home until very late and the weekends have been full of allergies, a sprained wrist (possibly broken bone) and traveling out of town for archaeology lectures :-) I'm having fun except the wrist part. The dog which chewed up my plant 4 weeks ago, well, I went to grab his collar 2 wednesdays ago and he twisted my wrist in the process :-( I'm 95% okay, no pain, but the doc believes there's a broken bone in my wrist an MRI will possibly expose on Monday.

   Anyway, with my odd luck and hectic schedule, I've had GREAT success with my Magnesium/Copper batteries!!!

   Yes, Jeanna, my results so far are with no JT involved. I finally received my (4) 2" toroids and the are SO BIG! I ordered (4) 1" this week and think they look more like what lasersabre is using. I plan to wire up a 2" one this weekend.

   I've created numerous varieties of the Mag/Cop cells in different sized pots and each time, I get great results. Because of the short time each time, I haven't really hooked them to my meter, but I've anticipated they work 90% the time I build them.

   I came up with a cool idea on Sunday.

PARTS LIST:
* 5-pack of plastic freezer cups w/sealable lid; around 5 to 8 oz deep
* (4) 3/4" copper couplers from the hardware store
* (4) 6" strips of insulated telephone wire (stripped at both ends)
* (8) 3/4" plastic caps from the hardware store, which are used to put under the legs of a table to keep it from scratching the floor
* Aluminum foil tape

   I took the cups, filled them 1/4 with dirt. I took each 3/4" copper coupler and taped one one of the copper telephone wire to the inside of the coupler. I taped near the middle inside to make sure the wire touched a clean part of the copper.

   The plastic caps are to cap and seal the insides of the copper coupler.

   So, first, I took 4 of the plastic caps (1 per copper coupler), drilled a small hole in the center so the telephone wire could be fed through. I foil taped the cap to the copper coupler, but tried not to get too much foil on the outside of the coupler. The more copper exposed, the better.

   I sealed the other end of the couplers with the remaining 4 plastic caps using foil tape. So, now, I had 4 plastic sealed copper couplers with a long wire coming out of the end. These, I put in the middle of the cups filled with 1/4 of dirt.

   Next, I took a left-over/scrap cardboard paper towel tube (can replace with toilet paper tube ... Good to RECYCLE, right??)

   I cut the tube in 5 pieces around 2.5" in length each. I cut a small slit in the top and bottom. I then wrapped magnesium ribbon around the tube (on the outside), anchoring the ribbon in the slit at one end of the tube. I wrapped it around 8 to 10 times around the tube, anchored in the slit at the top and left around 4" of slack. I cut the ribbon after around 4" of slack.

   So, we already have the copper tube in the cup, I put the magnesium wrapped cardboard tube in the cup, which makes the copper coupler sit in the middle of the hollow part of the cardboard tube. You get the picture? The cardboard tube will biodegrade, but the magnesium will remain in place once we fill the cup with soil.

   So, fill the spaces with soil, to the top. You will have a final cup where you have a long copper wire and long magnesium ribbon sticking out of the dirt in the cup.

   Next, the lid. Take the plastic lid, drill a hole in the center (maybe a 1/4" drill bit is best). fish the telephone wire (which is insulated) and magnesium ribbon through the 1/4" hole and seal the plastic cup.

   You now have a dirt magnesium and copper cell. With mine, the lid had a deep depression which I could put in a sink and run the water on it for a minute. Or drop the cup in a pot of water and let it sit for a couple minutes.

   I did this for 4 cups and after saturating the dirt with water, I hooked an LED between 2 cells and VIOLA!! I used a 1.7v red LED, but it as VERRRRRY BRIGHT!!

   I'll be making a video of this process, but I bet I can use a smaller cup and get the same results.

   For this project, the cups can be stacked. If you drill holes in the top & bottom, stack them and then make it so when you water one and the water drips out the bottom, it will feed the next.

   Or, in each pot, you can pepper the top with holes, sprinkle seads in the cup and grow flower pots with a battery cell inside. Pretty neat!

   I'm impressed with the success I'm having :-) But, the fear I have is the flamability of the magnesium. I think it's best to mix your soil with a majority of sand incase the magnesium catches fire for some reason. Better safe than sorry, right? What are your thoughts? Anyone??

   I'll report on my 30" planter in the next posting! It's now 4 weeks and it's running non-stop! Well, I did have to adjust the LED once, but it's still running very bright!

   So, no, my planters so far are not running joule thiefs! I think that's very impressive!!! But the JT will enhance the output! I'm eager to FINALLY try this.

   Sorry for the long lesson ... thanks for listening, guys!

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 26, 2010, 09:06:49 PM
Hi guys,

   Of course on the last post, in the parts list, you'll need magnesium ribbon.

   Okay, for my 30" planter project you can see on http://www.YouTube.com/eeresearcher ... the 2nd planter I built (1st one destroyed by the dog) is still running strong now 4 weeks this Sunday. I dug up some of the soil to check the magnesium and there does appear to be some magnesium oxide (white) on the ribbon, but it's hard to determine if I'm also seeing tarnishing (black). The magnesium has small bubbles on it, so I think that's it's protective mechanism.

   Last week, the air-exposed magnesium above the soil snapped where the aligator clip was attached, but the magnesium around it was still perfectly in-tact with nearly no oxidation. There are small bubbles on the magnesium in a few places, but I reconnected the aligator clip and the LED powered back up to full intensity. It's been running full-bright since then. I checked the clip last night and the magnesium has shown a small reduction of anode material at the connection point.

   So...., my thoughts ... I wonder if I can solder a copper wire onto the magnesium ribbon (it's not a flame to ignite, so solder may work). I'd ofcourse, take a small amount of magnesium to see if I can solder copper onto it. If so, I'd then vacuum seal the air-exposed magnesium with heat-shrink tubing and use the copper to connect to ... or copper may not work since it's copper ... hmm. I thought of solding an insulated bare-ended paperclip to it. Just thinking outloud.

   The point is to make the magnesium/copper last a long time without corrosion occuring. I read on the Internet that the air/moisture exposed magnesium will bubble as I've witnessed. The soil does appear to be protecting the ribbon.

   Now for the copper wire in the soil. It has started turning green, which I believe is not good. So, it will need to be refurbished at some point. However, the LED is still VERY BRIGHT 4 weeks into the test.

   I wish I had meter readings for you.

   Does anybody know of a multimeter for a PC which can do round-the-clock voltage readings???

   The mini 3-cell greenhouse project is still running and I'm still getting wierd results. It's the YouTube video running the blue LED. The LED powers up to full intensity at night and dimms out in the morning throughout . I think the dew at night is rejuvenating the soil in the shallow planter. It's like a night light effect which I think is so cool!!!

   On the LED leads, there's minimal rusting occuring where the aligator clips connect to the LED. The aligator clips aren't rusting, but just the connection points.

   I've made other earth cells, but these 3 I've mentioned are awesome. I'm actually creating quite a collection of cells and leave them hooked up to run as long as possible.

   On the 30" planter, I did need to water it one morning and witnessed the LED grow brighter in real-time. So, the LED hooked to the wires could be a good indicator of when your plants need water??? Neat :-)

   Isn't this exciting? I'm having a blast. Oops, careful of that when around magnesium ribbon :-)

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 26, 2010, 10:51:41 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
I love it
A Water me light!

I too am concerned about the flammability of mg.
I wonder if there is a fertilizer umm granules that contains mg in it since the plants may not be able to keep up.

While 13 bucks is not a lot for a 25 gram ribbon if as a battery, it lasts for weeks, it may not be being replenished by the plants. It is still looking a little like decomposition.

Anyway, I will try this tomorrow.
I got the ribbon today and I will get some 'mushroom compost' in a bucket or 2 with a copper wire and a philodendron plant, and see how long the joule thief can run.

It will be really cool, and I will take pictures of it and make a movie if it works well. This is fun!

--------
My mg ribbon package warned to keep it away from water. Does anybody know what the water reaction is?

About copper wire in the soil. That is very interesting. From high school memory, copper oxidation is stronger than plain copper so as long as it continues to conduct, I would say keep it. I
t probably means the mg is decomposing and the ions are becoming copper oxide green.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: in3d on March 26, 2010, 11:04:00 PM
Hi Jeanna,

   I know from reading that magnesium in water produces hydrogen ... which scared me when I first read it because I made a few cells and left them in my house ... makes me happy I don't have gas, but I talked to a friend who's an electrician and he said it wouldn't produce enough hydrogen to be dangerous. But I'd still be curious how much hydrogen would be made. Perhaps put a balloon over a water cell? Hmm.

   Anyway, so far, no explosions :-)

Shannon
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 27, 2010, 12:01:49 AM

   Anyway, so far, no explosions :-)

Shannon
Good.. no explosions.
Mg ribbon is used as a fuse for fire-works because as a solid  it burns when lit like wood, only unlike wood it shoots sparks.
Do you remember sparklers?
I think they have a different composition now, but when I was a kid, they were made to burn magnesium.

OK, this is the overprotection of corporate lawyers. I am glad to think that.

I was working with the crystal cell for a while and regularly made H2 bubbles because I was using Aluminum with sodium silicate in the mix and there were bubbles which I would pop with my kitchen igniter. (it was almost as much fun as snapping a spark from a camera capacitor  ;) .)

OK, so I won't worry about this because while I am not a cautious person, I am not stupid and have zero wish to hurt myself.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 27, 2010, 02:15:30 AM
OMG it works!
I feel like little Annekin
"IT'S WORKING! IT'S WORKING!
Here is a still pic.

jeanna

Thanks to Freepow for sharing that his earth battery required a zero resistor at the transistor base.
As soon as I shorted across the base resistance, the light went on.

BTW, this is my germanium transistor joule thief.
I have been using this to test the recharged batteries.
I guess I need a new joule thief!  ;D

edit
More fiddling and it works just fine with 1k ohms!!
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Doug1 on March 27, 2010, 12:12:16 PM
Is that a beef roast for 1.99 a pound under that planter?
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 27, 2010, 01:28:53 PM
[quote A=Doug1 link=topic=8540.msg234848#msg234848 date=1269688336]
Is that a beef roast for 1.99 a pound under that planter?
[/quote]

OMG Doug...you must LOVE ur roast mate!  ;D  But serious, that's a awesome price on the Sunday Roast Tucker.  So I ask, wheres the beef?

Oh Jeanna, can you post a little schematic of what you are doing with the circuit?  Have you tried trusty silicon 2N2222a (or other), or was it necessary for you to go Germanium to drop the forward voltage tax?  If so what did you use (AC185-NPN)??

Thanks guys.

E-Goose
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: stprue on March 27, 2010, 02:58:10 PM
OMG it works!
I feel like little Annekin
"IT'S WORKING! IT'S WORKING!
Here is a still pic.

jeanna

Thanks to Freepow for sharing that his earth battery required a zero resistor at the transistor base.
As soon as I shorted across the base resistance, the light went on.

BTW, this is my germanium transistor joule thief.
I have been using this to test the recharged batteries.
I guess I need a new joule thief!  ;D

edit
More fiddling and it works just fine with 1k ohms!!

To work in harmony with nature is an achievement!  Awesome job Jeanna...inspirational   :)
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 30, 2010, 12:06:56 AM

Oh Jeanna, can you post a little schematic of what you are doing with the circuit?  Have you tried trusty silicon 2N2222a (or other), or was it necessary for you to go Germanium to drop the forward voltage tax?  If so what did you use (AC185-NPN)??

Hi E Goose,
I was away this weekend.
When I returned the light is still ON!!!!!

I fixed up a basic jtc schematic to show what this is.
I had made this to work an EER last summer.
It didn't so it was in the shoebox.
But this schematic reflects what the circuit is. You might see other things there, but this is what is being used.

In a quick trial on saturday, I tried a jtc which uses a TIP31. This did not turn on. I didn't fiddle with it any more but I will now and let you know.

For now, this is still working 70 hours later.
hmm, pretty good compared to a AAA, or AA

Here is the schematic.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 30, 2010, 01:12:29 AM
I love it!  Jeanna's Mushroom/Philodendron circuit.

Excellent work Jeanna, as usual.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 30, 2010, 01:36:11 AM
Hi E Goose,
I was away this weekend.
When I returned the light is still ON!!!!!

I fixed up a basic jtc schematic to show what this is.
I had made this to work an EER last summer.
It didn't so it was in the shoebox.
But this schematic reflects what the circuit is. You might see other things there, but this is what is being used.

In a quick trial on saturday, I tried a jtc which uses a TIP31. This did not turn on. I didn't fiddle with it any more but I will now and let you know.

For now, this is still working 70 hours later.
hmm, pretty good compared to a AAA, or AA

Here is the schematic.

jeanna

Thanks Jeanna, ur a honey for that kind assistance!

Hmmm,  ??? I already have the supercap at the front like you are doing acting as a resevoir (but it's draining) and I thought you might be doing something special with the circuit itself (wiring) but no, therefore it must be my transistor drinking too much as suspected.  I shall buy a germanium number and see if I cannot dilly the pickle.

Kindest

E-Goose
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 30, 2010, 02:12:00 AM
I love it!  Jeanna's Mushroom/Philodendron circuit.

Excellent work Jeanna, as usual.

Bill
;D ;D ;D
Thanks Bill.

@E-goose,
Actually, it is not necessary to have that cap in there. And, it may even drain as you are supposing.

------------
All,
I just tried another circuit and this one has 2 secondaries (a very early circuit. I think I called this the berry, but maybe that is a different one)
It uses a 2N3904 silicon transistor and a string of trim pots that add up to something less than 1k... I think.
I will make a drawing and post it in a moment, but first I want to post this pic of it... the Mushroom Philodendron er...Cu,Mg EB with 2 LIGHTS!!

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Rapadura on March 30, 2010, 02:35:27 AM
This is what I call a environmentally friendly energy source!!!

Great work! I hope it can be scaled up more and more, with more plants and more LED's!
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 30, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
Ah, Rapadura, this is what is sooo fabulous about the joule thief.

Since this does work with the 2N3904 and with 2 secondaries, I happen to have a circuit that lights 30 leds from this much as a starter.

I do not have those circuits free at the moment, but this is free er well, I found it in the shoebox being ignored... ;)

anyway, since the joule thief circuit can be used as a pulse generator driving a secondary (aka pickup ) and since it matters not to the battery how much is on the secondary, it will be enough for any kind of jtc that works with the little transistor, so the "world light" with the tiny orange toroid which lights 42 leds is a good example. While it is not a reading light it is a lotbrighter than a night light.

I actually do not know the limits, so there will be more and more tests coming from this corner.
I see a lot of others doing this too, and I am smiling!  :D

Here is the schematic for the circuit in the above picture with 2 lights. [note, there is NO memory cap here!]

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 30, 2010, 06:36:00 AM
Ah, Rapadura, this is what is sooo fabulous about the joule thief.

Since this does work with the 2N3904 and with 2 secondaries, I happen to have a circuit that lights 30 A from this much as a starter.

I do not have those circuits free at the moment, but this is free er well, I found it in the shoebox being ignored... ;)

anyway, since the joule thief circuit can be used as a pulse generator driving a secondary (aka pickup ) and since it matters not to the battery how much is on the secondary, it will be enough for any kind of jtc that works with the little transistor, so the "world light" with the tiny orange toroid which lights 42 leds is a good example. While it is not a reading light it is a lotbrighter than a night light.

I actually do not know the limits, so there will be more and more tests coming from this corner.
I see a lot of others doing this too, and I am smiling!  :D

Here is the schematic for the circuit in the above picture with 2 lights. [note, there is NO memory cap here!]

jeanna

@Jeanna

I didnt think the EB had enough volts to switch on the 2n3904  ???   What is the voltage current delivered by the 'planter cell' Jeanna (non load AND under load)?  The wierd thing is, I have made hybrid batteries out of all sorts of things that have enough juice to light up a 3 volt led (dimly) but will NOT turn on the transistor.

What am I missing here?

E-Goose
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 30, 2010, 08:23:58 PM


I was never able to get this or the germanium based transistor to switch on either.
Bill did with his big block of Magnesium.
Then Lasersaber did with his magnesium ribbon.

Copper to zinc is not enough to start up the germanium transistor even though the meter would suggest that you could.
I will try the germanium jtc outside with my C-Zn EER again just to prove that it won't work.
I never did go back and try it with zero resistance at the base, and I want to do that.
Last summer, I thought it was working, but I was seeing the neighbor's spotlight reflecting from the jtc led, so this is the first for me.

My meter is telling me I have 1.44v across the Cu-Mg potted EB.
I do not know how many mA, but it is at least a few, or the 2N3904 would not turn on.

To begin to understand what I am doing, it is essential to separate the jtc with and withOUT a light at the transistor.

With the led at the C-E of the transistor the jtc is the real thief.
When there is no led across that C-E junction, the jtc with a secondary is a pulse generator, and uses way less mA.

I think.
I mean, I think this is the reason.

A magnesium firestarter is a good and safe source of magnesium.
It only starts a fire when it is crumbled into magnesium dust.
I think if you attach a copper wire to the mg firestarter, the best galvanic voltage will be happening where they meet. I always had it in the middle of the copper lead, not realizing the difference. (I was a very green beginner when this all started! ;) ).
How to do that?? I do not know.

There are a lot of questions in my mind and therefore many more experiments to continue to make.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 31, 2010, 12:33:07 AM
Here is my newest video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA)

thanks to lasersaber and Shannon for making this latest success possible!

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 31, 2010, 01:06:25 AM
Here is my newest video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA (http://www.A.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA)

thanks to lasersaber and Shannon for making this latest success possible!

jeanna

Thanks Jeanna for explaining all that.

E-Goose
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: ElectricGoose on March 31, 2010, 01:27:29 AM
Here is my newest video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA (http://www.A.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA)

thanks to lasersaber and Shannon for making this latest success possible!

jeanna

Jeanna

I guess it's a little early to ask, but if the earth is fairly damp, I wonder how much of this electrical generation is thanks to acidic galvanics and/or 'other'.  Have you checked to see if the Magnesium ribbon is deteriorating?

E-Goose
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 31, 2010, 02:13:47 AM
Jeanna

I guess it's a little early to ask, but if the earth is fairly damp, I wonder how much of this electrical generation is thanks to acidic galvanics and/or 'other'.  Have you checked to see if the Magnesium ribbon is deteriorating?

E-Goose
I have not.
I refer you to Shannon's posts about the magnesium end snapping off. I moved my plant around to make the video today and to change the circuit it is running and the mg seems the same.
I am just going to wait.

This is entirely galvanic, but it is my hope that the microorganisms in the soil will replenish the ions lost to the light. There is only one way to find out.
Also, doing this inside is a good way to separate the telluric from the non-telluric.
---

In fact, this is really not made the way I was going to make it.
I wanted the metals to be in good contact with the soil, but for starters, I just made it, and I will refine it later.
Here is what I did.

I wrapped a piece of unprinted newsprint papar around a 1 gallon jug.
Next, I wrapped a coil of wire around that
Then another piece of the paper
Followed by another winding of the other metal.

I didn't write it down, but I think the magnesium is on the outside touching the soil, but maybe not.

Then I placed the jug into the flower pot which had a small amount of soil on the bottom and around the sides.
Then pulled out the glass jug and squshed down the paper and  wires, added the plant and filled it in with soil.

The soil=mushroom compost was very damp because it has been outside in the rain all winter.

The meter immediately read 1.44v so I hooked up the joule thief...

That is pretty much it.
The wires are not N S as Shannon's are.
I think he has a good idea, but, as I said, I just wanted to start out easy, and see if that works.

----
I liked Shannon's story of the peat pot and the compressed peat, so I bought a couple of sets to make 2 peat pot batteries. That will be next, but I must remember to get some of that coconut before it is gone from stock.

Thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Rapadura on March 31, 2010, 02:37:13 AM
The point of the Magnesium end deteriorating or not deteriorating is crucial.

If it don't deteriorate, or if it deteriorate at a very very slow pace, it will be REALLY great! Then I will build a "planter charger" to charge my cell phone battery!

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 31, 2010, 02:46:34 AM
Well Rapadura, it is definitely very slow.

Shannon had the end break off after 4 weeks of constant running, but he could get it back and going again.
Even if this is one way, it is way better than a big pack of AA batteries, well way better if you are running a joule thief pulse generator.

How much does your phone battery need for a recharge?
I can see little planter boxes on the back shelf of everyone's cars recharging their phones! ;D

It might be helpful for someone to make one with a 1 1/2 inch piece of mg in a copper pipe end filled with dirt to see how long THAT lasts. Size for size, how does it compare to a AA or a C?
Hmm, I have a piece of pipe and a pipe cutter. Maybe I will try that.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 31, 2010, 04:42:49 AM
I found a page that addresses mg in the soil.
It is an agricultural site and may contain biased info, however, this sentence about dolomite is probably right on.
Quote
Proper liming with dolomitic limestone is almost always the most practical solution to low Mg, even if the dolomite is more expensive.
In a paragraph about toxicity of mg it mentions plants grown in  heavy Montmorillonite or clay soils without enough potassium.

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Mg_Basics.htm (http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Mg_Basics.htm)

So, my suggestion is that a little dolomite added to the soil of the Cu-Mg plant battery could replenish the mg ions to the battery if the soil doesn't do it for us.

mmm this is fun!

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on March 31, 2010, 06:31:11 AM
Great job Jeanna

btw you gave me the idea to remake my eer cells. i will be removing them and inspecting them and after cleaning them up. I plan on wraping the magnesium in non printed newspaper then switching my copper pipe to copper wire and wraping the magnesium and paper with the wire. i know my cells work and i do have to water them every once in a wile. but your light is much brighter them mine and i just connect the led directly across the wires. thanks for the idea

Dennis
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on March 31, 2010, 07:20:40 AM
Great job Jeanna

btw you gave me the idea to remake my eer cells. i will be removing them and inspecting them and after cleaning them up. I plan on wraping the magnesium in non printed newspaper then switching my copper pipe to copper wire and wraping the magnesium and paper with the wire. i know my cells work and i do have to water them every once in a wile. but your light is much brighter them mine and i just connect the led directly across the wires. thanks for the idea

Dennis
Hi Dennis,
How long has your cu-mg eer been running?
I am guessing that the reason my light is brighter is that it is a joule thief.
The trick the joule thief plays on your eyes is that the light is so bright  even though it is only on half of the time.

When you take it apart, please describe what the electrodes look like and how long they have been in use.
I am very curious to see.
Of course a sharp close up is best but that is really hard to do, so you are already off the hook there  ;)

I was actually wondering if the paper is a good idea.
I think it is a good way to separate the 2 wires from each other, but if my idea is right about magnesium ions in the soil replenishing the magnesium ions that are going into the circuit, maybe the paper will get in the way??

My experiments will be testing this idea about the magnesium in the soil. If yours are not about that then it won't make any difference.

thank you,

jeanna

edit
I just saw your diagram of the pulser.
Is that the one that is not so bright?
I am surprised.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 01, 2010, 03:45:54 AM
I just made a small double peat pot with 24 inches each cu and mg wire and lined each with soil then added a single stem with root for the plant because that is all that will fit.
It shows 1.7v
and when shorted through a .5ohm resistor the meter says 2.9mv so applying ohm's law this means I am getting around 5.8mA

and it will not start a joule thief.

I will post the pic of the peat pot arrangement.
I think it is like Shannon's??

@Shannon, do you think I should wait? It seems very wet.

jeanna

edit add
The big plant from yesterday when subjected to the same amps test is 4mV/.5ohm=8mA
That is still very low and close to 5.8, so I will wait...(I was going to wait anyway  ;) )
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 01, 2010, 06:03:42 AM
It has been a little over 2 hours.
I added more soil so it went over the top of both coils of wires
Then I added more water
And read the joule thief thread from the beginning to find how I made that joule thief etc.
(who needs to eat dinner when you're having so much fun?)

I just tried the germanium jtc again and this time with NO base resistor as freepow suggested for eb's, and it blinked a few times then got pale but solid and now seems to be building a little brightness!
I am glad the memory cap is there. It might be important here.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on April 01, 2010, 06:11:47 AM
well the rewiring is finished on the eer cell. not good at all almost no mamps like .02 or .03 and the voltage is only 1.07  i will let it set a day and recheck it tomarrow. i think maybe the magnesium may need to touch more dirt. but the copper wire is wound around the mag with paper in between and the mag sticking out both sides.

the copper pipe i had been using is in real good shape.not to much corrosion on it. the fire starter block did have a small amount of ?? i really do not know what to call it. discoloration but when i scraped/brushed/washed off the dirt i could still read the original writing on the side of it. the worst thing was the striker rail had come off.

i would have to say my eer's have been in use at least 6 months. hmmm how long has it been since i was last posting about sea/water batteries. well i made these right after testing the water batteries. i remember telling a retired school teacher friend of mine, i have to water my lights every 3 weeks or so.

i was thinking maybe i would take another cell and try using iron wire wrapped around the magnesium. i really want to know what that would produce.

Dennis
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 01, 2010, 06:58:47 AM
well the rewiring is finished on the eer cell. not good at all almost no mamps like .02 or .03 and the voltage is only 1.07  i will let it set a day and recheck it tomarrow. i think maybe the magnesium may need to touch more dirt. but the copper wire is wound around the mag with paper in between and the mag sticking out both sides.
Is the paper very wet?
I think it needs to get started.
And, I also suspect the magnesium needs to totally touch the dirt

Quote
the copper pipe i had been using is in real good shape.not to much corrosion on it

that's good news

also good news about the magnesium block.
Quote
i would have to say my eer's have been in use at least 6 months.
That is a good long time.
Have you been using the magnesium fire block during this time too?

Doesn't it sound like there is not enough surface of dirt which is the electrolyte, touching the electrodes?
That is what it sounds like to me.
Quote
i was thinking maybe i would take another cell and try using iron wire wrapped around the magnesium. i really want to know what that would produce.
Please keep us posted.

thank you,

jeanna


Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 02, 2010, 12:13:36 AM
Hi everybody,

I measured across the 2 secondaries on Plant battery #1.
The results on that bigger pot and with a silicon diode and 2 secondaries is:
2o #1 :
5.95v
222KHz
and for 2o #2:
5.14v
222KHz

----------------------
I measured across the 1 secondary on Plant battery #2 as well.
This pic of the working plant battery #2 should finish off the information you need on this.
I took some readings from that red secondary.
The voltage is
4.95v at
125Khz
I am never sure if this is absolutely correct when the basic jt light goes out when I measure across the secondary, but this is all I can do.


Here is the pic of plant battery #2.
You can see the 6 base resistors, and if you look close, you can see they are twisted together at the bottom and so are shorted and there is no resistor there.
I do not get why this works or why this is the only way so far that it works, but at least it does work.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on April 03, 2010, 04:48:59 AM
It looks like their is a lot of activity and EER Joule Thief experiments going on, with the weather finally warming up we have another season for trying out new ideas.  I'm following Lasersaber's lead and using mg ribbon south and copper wire north.  I now have 4 cells connected in parallel.  One cell works better on a single wire.  My cells are putting out over 30 MA at 1.7 V and now I am able to light two LED's using the basic Joule Thief circuit run a small motor and charge a 5 10 Farad and 1 50 Farad 2.5V supercaps to .83 V at the same time. Here is a link to my Youtube channel if anyone is interested:  http://www.youtube.com/user/dcspc1?feature=mhw5 I'll try to post a new video next week.  Keep moving forward.  Happy Easter everyone!
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 04, 2010, 04:41:44 AM
I am looking forward to getting 30mA from my EER.
Congratulations, dcc!

At the moment, my plant batteries are giving less than 8mA and I think the 8mA has gone down and is maybe 5mA.
However, the 2 plants have been running a light each for another 24 hours.
Of course, 1 bright white led is merely a night light. It is a pleasure to see 2 nite lights coming from the plants when I look on them at 3:00 AM, but 30 mA will be much more light.

My water with mg sulphate control had even less mA this morning and the ribbon was terribly corroded. It seems to be corrosion on top of the ribbon, and not below the normal surface, so it IS possible that the mg is getting precipitated onto the ribbon as the current goes to the copper electrode, but too hard to tell. If I scrape the ribbon smooth it comes to life again.
I guess I should look into some normal electrolyte uses again. In the morning there was H2 on the magnesium ribbon ... maybe a little on the copper too, and a little shaking dislodged it and I popped the bubbles with a flame on the surface of the water.

The ribbon coming out of the soil shows no change at all.

So, ho hum ... another report that it continues to work for another 24 hours! :D

jeanna

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: kooler on April 04, 2010, 04:45:44 AM
hey folks
i made my first jeannas power plant
and i notice that the gain is with the potting soil
my first one was of my dirt from my corn field..
1.178 volts.. .. the amps were in the very low microamp range..  >:(
now the potting soil that miracle grow makes.. WoW..   ;D
1.276 volts .. .. 11 ma's..
my wife likes her new earth leds jt's in her flowers.. but the mulch is the secret to them.. they put a mild acid in the dirt..
this is only my research so everyone else will probably have different results..
good job jeanna..

robbie
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 04, 2010, 05:01:00 AM
robbie,
Are you using magnesium ribbon and copper?

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: kooler on April 04, 2010, 05:19:28 AM
jeanna
sorry i should have told the wire i was using..
it is a magnesium and aluminum alloy wire..it is a wire used in welding.. you welding guys know which one i am talking about.. mig..
i am a mechanic and welder.. so i come across alot of usable parts in the R&D world
like 1000 feet of mag of the 20-22 awg for 8$ range.. (you can get them out of starter solenoid relays.. in lawn mowers or fords)
i was working on one of my welders 4 months ago and came across something really kool..
i'll post a video of it one day..
oh .. in the mig welding section of your hardware store you will also find magnesium combined with mild steel wire if you was to ever need it.. ..

edit.. i'm using the alloy wire for the neg..
and copper for the pos..

robbie
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2010, 06:40:19 AM
Jeanna:

Replace your copper with a carbon rod from a D size battery.  Not an alkaline but a bat. marked "heavy duty" regular one has the carbon rod.  I will bet you that this will increase the output without harm to your plant from the copper chemicals occurring during the reaction.

I am going to try this as soon as I am able to.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on April 04, 2010, 02:16:03 PM
I found what appears to be a good buy on some graphite bars on Ebay.  Headline:  Flat Bulk Graphite , Electroplating,glass blowing 9 pcs
11 1/4" x 4 1/4" x 1" 9 pieces in each box!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/Flat-Bulk-Graphite-Electroplating-glass-blowing-9-pcs_W0QQitemZ300394122409QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f0e28ca9

Looks like seller has a good supply...
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 04, 2010, 09:10:25 PM
Jeanna:

Replace your copper with a carbon rod from a D size battery.  Not an alkaline but a bat. marked "heavy duty" regular one has the carbon rod.  I will bet you that this will increase the output without harm to your plant from the copper chemicals occurring during the reaction.

I am going to try this as soon as I am able to.

Bill
Hi Bill,

I have been finding some interesting things out as I search for soil metals and fertilizers etc.
One thing I thought was very interesting is that a healthy plant needs even more copper than magnesium!
I am wondering if we are getting sold a "bill of goods" with this common talk that copper is not good for plants or us. There is a healthy midpoint in all this because some copper is essential.
For me, a lot of this is a biology experiment.
Of course, it is not that for you or most others.

I am sure the carbon is fine here, but the copper oxide is so much more visible, I will wait to see the green.
As you probably remember, I got my best results in my outdoors EER's when I used some carbon welding rods someone gave me.. Also the spent carbon granules from a water filter gave me the very best voltage.
But, these 2 minerals (Cu and Mg) seem to be a pair that work together in living organisms.
I am wondering if there will ever be green copper oxide on the wire, or if it shows up, how long it will take.

The gutenberg project has that old battery book from the telephone experimenters of the 1800's. I remember Zn and Cu oxides being in a single doorbell battery and one was heavier than the other and so dropped to the bottom of the jar. As long as you kept one electrode higher than the other the reaction continued.
I remember wondering at the time if we could use some other metal as electrode after all the electrolyte had changed in this jar.
So, this is also a way for me to look into that idea.

None of this might end up being very good, but it has been over a week, and all I have needed to add was dolomite!
This is such a simple EER.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. I will see about that after I finish with the copper part.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 04, 2010, 09:55:12 PM
This is an excerpt from the gutenberg book that so intrigued me.
This cell is called a closed circuit battery because it works better when it is in constant use!!!
See if you don't find this fascinating:
-------------------
Closed-Circuit Cells. Gravity-Cell:—Coming now to the consideration of closed-circuit or constant-current cells, the most important is the well-known gravity, or blue-stone, cell, devised by Daniell. It is largely used in telegraphy, and often in telephony in such cases as require a constantly flowing current of small quantity. Such a cell is shown in Fig. 64.

The elements of the gravity cell are electrodes of copper and zinc. The solution in which the copper plate is immersed is primarily a solution of copper sulphate, commonly known as blue-stone, in water. The zinc plate after the cell is in action is immersed in a solution of sulphate of zinc which is formed around it.

The glass jar is usually cylindrical, the standard sizes being 5 inches diameter and 7 inches deep; and also 6 inches diameter and 8 inches deep. The copper electrode is of sheet copper of the form shown, and it is partly covered with crystals of blue-stone or copper sulphate. Frequently, in later forms of cells, the copper electrode consists merely of a straight, thick, rectangular bar of copper laid horizontally, directly on top of the blue-stone crystals. In all cases a rubber-insulated wire is attached by riveting to the copper electrode, and passes up through the electrolyte to form the positive terminal.


The zinc is, as a rule, of crowfoot form, as shown, whence this cell derives the commonly applied name of crowfoot cell. This is essentially a two-fluid cell, for in its action zinc sulphate is formed, and this being lighter than copper sulphate rises to the top of the jar and surrounds the zinc. Gravity, therefore, serves to keep the two fluids separate.

In the action of the cell, when the external circuit is closed, sulphuric acid is formed which attacks the zinc to form sulphate of zinc Page 107 and to liberate hydrogen, which follows its tendency to attach itself to the copper plate. But in so doing the hydrogen necessarily passes through the solution of sulphate of copper surrounding the copper plate. The hydrogen immediately combines with the SO4 radical, forming therewith sulphuric acid, and liberating metallic copper. This sulphuric acid, being lighter than the copper sulphate, rises to the surface of the zinc and attacks the zinc, thus forming more sulphate of zinc. The metallic copper so formed is deposited on the copper plate, thereby keeping the surface bright and clean. Since hydrogen is thus diverted from the copper plate, polarization does not ensue.

The zinc sulphate being colorless, while the copper sulphate is of a dark blue color, the separating line of the two liquids is easily distinguishable. This line is called the blue line and care should be taken that it does not reach the zinc and cause a deposit of copper to be placed thereon.

As has been stated, these two liquids do not mix readily, but they will eventually mingle unless the action of the cell is sufficient to use up the copper sulphate as speedily as it is dissolved. Thus it will be seen that while the cell is free from polarization and local action, there is, nevertheless, a deteriorating effect if the cell is allowed to remain long on open circuit. Therefore, it should be used when a constant current is required.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2010, 10:33:19 PM
Jeanna:

That gravity cell info is very cool.  Thanks.

Below is quoted from our own Stefan Hartman back in November of 2007 in the original EB topic:

"But surely you will consume both rods and spoil the earth with it,so there will be dangerous copper salts and zinc saltsgoing into the soils, but I don?t know, how dnagerous they are...Probably not the zinc salts,but probably the copper salts.So don?t do this at a places where you draw water from a well  to drink."

Seems like a long time ago now.  Anyway, that is what I was remembering about the copper oxides being bad possibly.  Your chemistry knowledge far exceeds mine...actually, I have very little knowledge of chemistry.

I see what you are saying about your experiments.  It will be cool to see what happens.

Reading the beginning of that old topic really brought back some memories Jeanna.
I sure have come a long way since then I would say.  I know we all have but it is amazing to see how little I knew back then, ha ha.

I look forward to your results.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Mk1 on April 04, 2010, 10:34:34 PM
@all

I just remembered something , and metal rust will help the galvanic effect but also heating it give some other type of galvanic structure, maybe better for plants.

The type of plants use will have a role in the galvanic effect , the soil it needs
will determine the acidic or alkaline structure of the battery , neutral ph plants should be detrimental to the galvanic action.

Potato battery anyone?

Great work everyone !

Mark
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 04, 2010, 10:50:22 PM
CosmicGnarler at EF gave me this link yesterday and it fills in a lot of the gaps.

http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/elcultur.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/elcultur.htm)

At the bottom is a bit about pulsing with light.
I think I will make a jtc with a pot and a few red lights.
 Later, I will make some with blue lights when I get some, and I will regulate the pulse length too.
 I have been wanting to do this experiment for a while too, and I guess 'now's the time!'
Because how cool is this to have the plant making the electricity that is feeding it.
In the video panic in the cabbage patch at the end it shows how the plants could be connected to regulators to turn on water spigots and regulate light and heat, so I betcha this can happen automatically.
Oh this is way fun!

thanks,

jeanna
the cabbage patch video is an old tech video from russia in the 50's. It is amazing. Thanks to harpbloke for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy9eMT8ki94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy9eMT8ki94)
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 05, 2010, 04:33:51 AM
I just changed the big plant battery#1 joule thief circuit.

It is now more specific to what I am doing.

Since it already had 2 secondaries, but one was weaker and eventually went off, I removed that light and replaced it with a RED led which I have turned so it faces one of the leaves.
I also removed the basic jt light.
This was an early circuit and that basic jt light went off when I made the secondary but I never removed it from the circuit.

So, it is still running since I added some dolomite to the soil on Apr 2.
This is a total of 9 days straight except for a 5 hour break on the 6th day.
The wires still look fresh and clean.
(This is very different from how crusty and gross the mag wire that was in the control battery looked after 20 hours.)

Did I mention I am using a 1F 5.5v memory cap between the leads?
This really helps with such low amperage.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on April 05, 2010, 05:54:05 AM
i was researching iron and copper wire at my local truevalue/ ace hardware store and this is what i found

Slug-ging It Out - How the Win the Slug Battle
Copper wire is the secret weapon

Copper wire can save your outdoor potted plants from hungry slugs. To keep them away, simply wrap thin copper wire once around your pot. To secure the wire, just twist the ends tight with pliers.
What's the trick? Copper wire emits just enough electrical zap to turn slugs away unharmed! Also, trim your deck and patio chairs and the slugs will stay away from you, too.

 
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on April 05, 2010, 06:14:08 AM
i went to harbor freight tools for a new meter. their only 2.99 so when i blow them it don't bother me any. i looked in the camping section/row and found magnesium fire starters for 2.99 but they were on sale for 1.99, that's the best deal i have found any where..

some time back last summer i went to a local art supply shop. i picked up the largest graphite rod they stocked. it's like 1/2 inch diameter by 4 1/2 inches long for under $5.00

i made a new eer using the graphite rod and a fire starter. it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2010, 06:36:19 AM
i went to harbor freight tools for a new meter. their only 2.99 so when i blow them it don't bother me any. i looked in the camping section/row and found magnesium fire starters for 2.99 but they were on sale for 1.99, that's the best deal i have found any where..

some time back last summer i went to a local art supply shop. i picked up the largest graphite rod they stocked. it's like 1/2 inch diameter by 4 1/2 inches long for under $5.00



i made a new eer using the graphite rod and a fire starter. it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps

I saw those fire starters at HF too, that is the best price I have ever seen as well.  At walmart they are usually closer to $5 ea.

I'll bet you mA's and volts go up a bit after a while.  If you get your alignments set up right, that will help as well.  You can probably run a JT from it now though I would think.

On your meters, it is usually the fuse that blows on the amps section and they can be easily replaced.  My cheapest meters I paid like $8 ea. for so that is a great price too.  I love HF!  I could live in that store.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 05, 2010, 07:40:46 PM

I just wanted to report that the mag ribbon in the small pot has broken off at the soil.This is where it broke on Dennis' set up too.

(The bigger one #1 is still fine with its 2 colors of lights.)

I made this smaller arrangement #2, to get closer to the limits, and I will take it all down today and take pics which I will post if warranted.
1- One of the limits was to make one with only a very small amount of wire to learn how much wire is needed for how many mA.
2- One limit was to make one which had a plant but no added microbes
3- One of the limits was to make a battery with no plant to see what just the mass of soil moisture and electrodes would do if anything more than the control which has no soil and no plant.

This one that has the broken ribbon was supposed to be with no plant.
I relented and added a single leaf that had a small root.
So, it is not as scientific as it was going to be, but it did go for a week and now, I can make one with no plant to compare.

I have another idea to make a solder joint with some plastic insulated copper wire which is part of the jtc, and hot glue and submerge the joint under the soil so there is no place where the air can get to the magnesium.
----------------------

@Dennis, did you ever find a way to save the magnesium ribbon?

@lasersaber, I am curious about the condition of your magnesium ribbon. How is it?

@Shannon=== You are the star here. How are all those planted pots doing?
Your times are really great.
Please keep posting as time goes by.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: dissection
Post by: jeanna on April 05, 2010, 11:00:05 PM
OK ready?
I hope nobody is too squeemish... ;D

The magnesium has great bites taken out of it all along its surface.
It broke into 5 pieces when I was handling it.
It is less wide throughout. This is amazing, I think. The ribbon is uniformly narrower except where it was out in the air.

I can see chunks of black crumbly magnesium in clods stuck onto it, but I cannot say if it is helping at all.

The copper has areas of thick clods that are greenish or blackish. Both look like copper oxides of some type.

The plant (or single leaf with root) looks green and fine.


This is the test that SHOULD most resemble the water battery because the copper and magnesium were separated by a peat pot with and the magnesium was more isolated from anything that could aid it in any ion exchange.
I was surprised it lasted as long as it did.
20 inches of each magnesium and copper.
a pinch of dolomite
no microbes until the last hour (because at that last hour I forgot I was testing this without them.)
============
EDIT
I looked back.
This plant battery with 20 inches of mg ribbon and running a germanium transistor jtc  has been on for 4 straight days and nights
4 x 24 =  96 hours constant running
==============

thank you,
jeanna

The pics:
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on April 06, 2010, 12:01:50 AM
Jeanna

That's what I was afraid of on the A ribbon.  Pretty fragile.  I did a test this afternoon using magnesium ribbon and copper vs magnesium ribbon and graphite using a water battery. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BnHIK1LnsA

The magnesium ribbon is already all black.  I think the firestarters would do better.

I used heat shrink tubing to attach copper lead wires to my mag ribbons.  That may help with ends breaking off a little.

My long wire magnesium/copper earth cells seem to be dropping off in power as well.  I thought it was because of the dry weather but it may be because of the magnesium ribbons.  I'm still getting 1.45 V but current is down  :(

I wonder how Lasersaber's long wire eb's are doing?

I sure wish the city of Murray KY would have let Nathan build the power station for them.  That would have cleared a lot of things up. *LOL*
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 06, 2010, 12:47:11 AM

That's what I was afraid of on the magnesium ribbon.  Pretty fragile.  I did a test this afternoon using magnesium ribbon and copper vs magnesium ribbon and graphite using a water battery. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BnHIK1LnsA
perfect test.
thank you for doing that.
I remember gadgetmall's friend said something similar. The graphite looked better but performed worse.

But Bill gets great results.
Hey Bill, have you tried copper lately?

Quote
The magnesium ribbon is already all black.  I think the firestarters would do better.

Yes, I wanted to get the littlest piece of magnesium that would start a joule thief circuit. that way I had the output elements I wanted and I could see the damage easily, and calculate the time.

I agree that the firestarters are probably better, but harder to tell when only a small amount of corrosion has begun.
Now, I can make some tests.


Quote
I used heat shrink tubing to attach copper lead wires to my mag ribbons.  That may help with ends breaking off a little.
good idea. I don't own a hair drier any more.  ;) Is there any way to heat the shrink without a hair drier. I have the heatshrink stuff....maybe I will stick it on the radiator .


thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on April 06, 2010, 12:53:00 AM
Jeanna i am using fire starter blocks not ribbon. i wish i had the ribbon

I rebuilt my cell that had a mag block wrapped in paper using copper wire. the most mamps i could get out of it was .07 not to good.

I connected iron/steel wire to the magnesium block and copper wire to an art supply store graphite rod. the graphite rod is about 1/2 inch in diameter by about 4 inches long. this so far is my best cell it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps.

i have connected 4 cells in parallel and can now light a modified chilliqueen super jt. about 3/4 bright white led. or a regular jt but it's not as bright. i think this setup will run for weeks at a time.

Dennis
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on April 06, 2010, 01:35:14 AM
Jeanna

You can shrink shirink wrap tubing with a match or a propane torch or you might try your soldering iron or a clothes iron.  Just be very careful when working with magnesium ribbon.  If that goes up get away quick.  I don't know if it can be put out.  :o

Cheers
Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 06, 2010, 03:44:50 AM
Jeanna i am using fire starter blocks not ribbon. i wish i had the ribbon
....... the most mamps i could get out of it was .07 not to good.
not good.
but it does explain why I could never get my eb to work when I was using cu or C and a mg block.


Quote
I connected iron/steel wire to the magnesium block and copper wire to an art supply store graphite rod. the graphite rod is about 1/2 inch in diameter by about 4 inches long. this so far is my best cell it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps.
This sounds really great.
my germanium jtc will start with 2.8mA IF I have the memory cap across the battery leads.
Have you tried that?

Quote
i have connected 4 cells in parallel and can now light a modified chilliqueen super jt. about 3/4 bright white led. or a regular jt but it's not as bright. i think this setup will run for weeks at a time.

Are you using chilliqueen's 2 transistor jt?

You said you were going to twist some iron wire around the mag firestarter. Is that what you did?

@dcc,
Quote
Just be very careful when working with magnesium ribbon.  If that goes up get away quick.  I don't know if it can be put out.  :o
I agree.
I think you cannot put it out. Smothering it (earth) is the only way I have seen on the web.

But, now that I have seen what happened, I nolonger think that it is the place where they connect that is the problem...the part above the ground is the only strong piece left.

====

I am not at all discouraged by this.
This is almost a control unit.

I wonder if there is an item that is like a stick. I thought of sparklers a while ago. Maybe a sparkler would make a good electrode. One with enough surface area but also enough thickness that it would deteriorate evenly.

Anyway my hope is to find a way to have the soil replenish the ions so there is no or minimal deterioration.

By the way, I looked at the leaf again.
I believe it loved being the host for this experiment.
Can't say if it is the HF or the Mg or dolomite or all of it, but this leaf is thick sturdy and very green today.
It has a glow to it.
Florists put shiny stuff on leaves to make the plant look healthy. This looks like that but for real.
I was looking for root growth earlier and did not notice the leaf.
I will have to add that to my tests.

Have any of you noticed an improvement in the appearance of your plants?

jeanna

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on April 06, 2010, 05:32:38 AM
let me just back up a bit, no i did not wrap iron wire around the block. what i did do was test wire in water and test different metals in water. my iron/steel wire test minus voltage, magnesium tests minus voltage. so i think wrapping iron wire around magnesium would not give good results.

i then updated my cells using copper wire for the plus and iron wire for the minus. with all cells wired together is am getting 1.23 volts and 5.15 mamps

out of the 5 cells i have no two are alike but all of them use the fire starter for the magnesium.

if my file will attach this is the circuit i use one is the chilliqueen and the other is my modified version of it
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2010, 06:21:27 AM
Jeanna:

Yes, back in the early days I was using copper.  The best thing about that was to put to rest the galvanic crowd that we had at that time.  I used two tubes of copper cut from the same pipe and still got volts and mA's when aligned properly which told me something else was making the juice...telluric currents maybe.

Now, we have seen folks do the flower pot experiments back then calling it an earth battery but since they were not in the ground, their results were not that great.  Galvanic probably.

But, now you added the plants into the mix so I don't know what might be going on here.  This is a new and different look at the EER or earth battery.

The fire starter blocks should work for you as I have used them in all of my early experiments.  They may still break down but it should take a lot longer for them to do that.  I was able to light my first led outside using one.

It will be interesting to see if Lasersaber's ribbon in the ground deteriorates or if the earth protects it.  My 5 lb mag. block may indeed be breaking down but, it may take such a long time that I don't notice it.  (I hope it does not)

I look forward to seeing what happens here with these power plants.  I never would have thought of trying this, great thinking!

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 08, 2010, 11:58:08 PM
Quote
I have 2 power plants that have turned off today. The first one which has a red led is barely on at all so I am calling it off.

I think the most useful thing to do is to weigh the magnesium from both of the small plants and see how much was used before the breaks occurred.
The magnesium is not spent in these ribbons, but enough is missing that the ribbon cannot hold together, so the weight of what was used may not actually mean much. But it is better to get the weight now.

I am thinking of trying some montmorillinite clay the soil too. that is another possible source for magnesium and it makes an acid soil rather than the base of the dolomite. hmm  or a little of both and neutral?

Those old time earth batteries were made from iron not magnesium , so I may not be able to get the right chemistry here, but it is intriguing. Perhaps I should be using zinc with magnesium as anodic backup, but that will be a later test as the volts are so low with the zinc. And magnesium is a soil nutrient.

jeanna

OK I put all that on hold.

I discovered that the ribbon had broken at the surface of the soil as it had done with someone else. I repotted it and stuffed all the broken bits of magnesium back into the soil by the ribbon and it is starting up again now. The rest of the ribbon looked quite good as a matter of fact.

So, I will do all the weighing etc later.

 ;),

jeanna

edit:

Now, I think I need to rethink my plan.
I thought I would be able to tell how much magnesium was being used by the weight of magnesium loss over time, but it seems to be breaking through unevenly . so, I guess I will reconnect the shreds of ribbon and restart until it is gone.
I suppose I can solder the pieces.
If dcc can use a cig lighter on the heatshrink, I guess solder won't start a blaze.

The light is bright again, btw.  :D

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on April 14, 2010, 02:55:46 AM
Here's my plant battery after 9 days.  It seems to be thriving.  Magnesium ribbon south, copper wire north.  Made little "Power Plant" installed joule thief.

Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 14, 2010, 08:35:25 PM
@dcc,
Flowepower, what another great name for this... and a windmill, no less. ;D

---------
@All,

I finally got my magnesium block to work.

It took making a jtc with
 a memory cap at the leads, 
1k at the base, and a
14 turns, 50v secondary when used with a 1.2v AAA, and a
RED led on the 14 turns secondary wire.

I realized the other day that using the secondary wire is not only more flexible because you can regulate the volts output by changing the number of turns, but the requirement is much less, so it only needs to be able to start the transistor. period.
After that it does not "suck the joules" from the earth battery, if you will.

After that, a good jtc with secondary is all that is needed.

So, it flashes a tiny red light about 2x per second.

Maybe now, the self currents from the plant's ionic movements will help it to grow to a steady red light.

At the energetic forum someone gave lidmotor a link to some research being done at Harvard making almost this very thing.
EXCEPT
They are putting salt into the battery unit.  ??? :'(
that will hurt the earth, while this will not.
I hope some of the Harvard researchers can see this and try it, since it is in the direction of permaculture not soil death.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 15, 2010, 04:29:13 AM
Here is another quick piece about Plant battery #1, which is the one in the video.

It has 5 feet of each mag ribbon and 18awg copper wire wound in a spiral and separated by a piece of unprinted newspaper with a plant in the soil  inside of all that, and more soil outside of that to the pot edge.

It went out a few times in the time it has been working. Each time, I did very little more than add water or microbes or dolomite. Once I changed from a germanium jtc with the light at the transistor to one with 2 lights on the secondary. The last time I changed one of the leds to a red one.
And it keeps on going.

On day #15, (Apr 8 )  it went out and I touched it and a 5 inch piece of mg ribbon came off in my hands and I stuck it back in the soil to have a think, and the lights went on bright. ... a 5 inch piece of ribbon?---

That made me think about those old timers stories again.
I wonder if my planter has a current in the soil that now follows a certain path which was originally defined by the magnesium ribbon, but continues even though the ribbon is in bad shape?

Today I tested this thought again, because today the white light went out, which means the amps are below um 4mA or so.
I cut a fresh piece of Mg ribbon about 3-4 inches long and stuck it under the clip and into the soil at the place where the mg comes out of the soil.
then I sprayed the soil with some water as usual.

The light got really bright = brighter than it has been in a few days.

-----
This is very promising.
I do NOT want to disturb anything and my plan is to continue to add a little magnesium ribbon at the soil edge for as long as it continues to work (or next year whichever comes first... ;D )
Then I will take it apart and look at the details... entrails.

Is anybody else watching the circuit getting less and less powerful?
If so, please try this and post your results.
Just cut a 5 inch piece and stick it into the ground and add it to the clip that is holding the original magnesium in place, and do not disturb the rest of it if possible.

Then please post what happens.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 23, 2010, 12:48:15 AM
Here is some more in the same vein as the last post.
Plant Battery #4 went together on Apr 10th. It was never very strong, but it worked, and I used a red led on the secondary for the light.
On day #10 which was Apr 20, the red led started to pulse. It went out, then a moment later it went on pretty bright and stayed on for 20 seconds then went out again. I fiddled a little but really, I just wanted to see what is going on without changing anything.
So, today day #12 with the light still pulsing about like before, I took out the soil on the side with the magnesium ribbon.
There seems to be only a couple of 2 inch pieces left?

OK that is right. The action of the battery ate the ribbon.
But why was it even pulsing?
The piece at the top where it connects to the clip is about 2 inches long.

I promise you that 2 inches is NOT enough magnesium ribbon to keep this going.

So, the best candidate for the explanation is that the river of ions is continuing to flow in the soil even in the absence of any ribbon.
Once it is directed, it continues.
Next time, I think I better weigh the dolomite I put in there.

I guess a good test to negatively test this river idea right now, would be to return the soil (river randomized)  and add the 2 inch piece under the clip and see if it starts the flash sequence again.

Instead, I am going to let the soil get very dry and fish out all the bits of mag ribbon I can find to weigh them to see how much got used to run a joule thief for 12 days.

-----------How does this sound?--------------------

Maybe I am making a magnesium-copper battery with dolomite as the permanent electrode, but the dolomite must first be "trained" with the presence of the ribbon. When the ribbon has dissolved, the magnesium in the dolomite is enough to continue the current production and the 'battery' only needs a short piece of mg ribbon as connection point.

any more ideas??
??

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on April 24, 2010, 08:51:33 PM
Here is a short video showing the crink on the red led side and the normal shaped leaves on the white led side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktAanNTENo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktAanNTENo)

thanks for watching.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.AND run a bedi
Post by: jeanna on April 25, 2010, 07:18:40 AM

Hi everybody,
Tonight I made this replication of lidmotor's bobin bedini which can run from a very low amp battery source.
And it works!
So, it is plant battery number 6 which has only 5 leaves of a philo plant and 30 inches of magnesium ribbon and 20 inches of copper wire. That is it!
If this follows the pattern from the past, this will run for 5 days then as the magnesium ribbon begins to weaken, it will slow down. Then, I can restore the full amperage by adding only a small piece of fresh magnesium. 4 to 5 inches usually works and adds another week of life to the battery.

YEAY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIOE5YXQRs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIOE5YXQRs)

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Tenbatsu on May 08, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
Jeanna,

I wonder if it's possible to protect the magnesium from corrosion while maintaining your current volt/amp output. 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TY7-3YNYBM3-2&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78823ea2b72c9f7ab2c919cb659cfa15 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TY7-3YNYBM3-2&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78823ea2b72c9f7ab2c919cb659cfa15)

If you get a chance take a look at that link.  It seems some type of acrylic paints containing electrically conductive polypyrrole  can prevent corrosion of magnesium.  I think it would be worth a shot to see if you can get some more life out of the magnesium tape while maintaining your current output.

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on May 12, 2010, 05:02:21 AM
Hi everybody,

Here is another video. It is following the development of the outside plant battery (aka earth battery  ;) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPmSbvssYUc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPmSbvssYUc)

It is only 3 minutes, but not very compressed so you can see the red led. Still, I may need to make pointers so you can see the light.

---------
And on another front:
Plant battery #1 refused to turn on after a week of rest, but it turns out that the magnesium had gone even though the circuit was off!??? Can you figure that?
So, all I needed to do was add a 4 inch piece of fresh magnesium and it started up again!

There is more thinking to do on this. If it cannot be turned off, it is really interesting to think about what is happening.
Maybe lidmotor happened on a great idea to collect the output in a capacitor when it is not in "use".

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using Plant Battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on May 13, 2010, 12:32:20 AM
Hi everybody,

I need to describe the INCREASE that I have been seeing over and over in all the EER plant batteries with the jtc.
It doesn't make normal galvanic or even earth battery common sense.
I think this is the combination of the EER, the joule thief and possibly the cap across the leads.

In all of my plant batteries, the lights get brighter until the magnesium ribbon is nearly gone or completely gone.
Then they may still run for a while, but at lower brightness.

I missed this at first because of my normal assumptions.

Here is what happened.

It started when I decided to stop 'using' the battery when I was gone for a few days.
When I returned, I had to wait a very long time for the light to even turn on .
Meanwhile, I never took the leads off the phyllis battery, so it is not really included in this test, except you will see later, that it is. (Phyllis battery has a mag firestarter and copper pipe for electrodes.)

Plant battery #1 which has a jtc with 2 secondaries and a white and red led and ran straight for 5 weeks refused to turn on.
I just left it connected and took off again for 5 more days, but all the others were still unconnected.
When I returned, plant battery #1 was still off, so I figured it was gone and got ready to dissect it.

The 2 others which are #6 and #7 and had 6ma and 8mA on their first days could not start a joule thief at all.
I was stumped.
So, I put #6 and #7 in series and that combo lit a jtc with a white led on the secondary.
I noticed that it was getting brighter over time.
Finally it was really bright, and I split it and clipped the jtc to just #7, and now it lit up just fine.
I had left the red jtc in the ground so I got out that germanium transistor jtc and hooked it up to #6.
Nothing.

But, I was busy making that video so I just left it in place... and forgot it.
At about 10 PM I noticed a faint white light coming from its led!
Then this morning the light was even brighter.
So, the #6 has totally revived!

Meanwhile, the #7 led is blindingly bright.
So, IT has totally revived.

Before I started the dissection, I looked closely at the #1 and saw that the clip on the magnesium ribbon was only touching a 1 inch piece.
I cut and added a 4 inch piece to the clip and buried the wire near the magnesium line, added a few squirts of water spray, and both lights went on. Over the afternoon they got dim then this morning, without anything being done to them, they are brighter again.

Now, about the phyllis plant battery (used to be called #5).
She just blinked from the very beginning.
In the lase few weeks, I thought the length of the 'on' blinks was longer than the length of the 'off' times.
By last week, I was sure of it.
In fact, the on time was 4 to 1, then 5 to 1, then even 9 to 1, on to off, and irregular like that, which is pretty strange.
When I got back and all the rest of the PB's were unconnected and off this phyllis was straight on and has not even flashed one time in the last 3 days!

So, there is some kind of self regulation or self pumping going on.

----
I think of being on a swing with no one to push and being too high to kick the ground.
I lean back and pull, then forward and only a tiny movement happens. Then again and a tiny bit more. And so on until I am actually swinging and can use the swing to enhance MY efforts to increase the swing.

That is what I think is happening with the joule thief circuit in this plant EER .

Where is Dennis and cosmic farmer and eeresearcher and dcc Bill, etc??
Please someone else try this.

I also think that making a ring or a spiral is very helpful, but others need to be doing this too...please!

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on May 16, 2010, 01:42:53 PM
@Jeanna , @All,

I was hospitalized with acute appendicitis last Sunday and I'm now at home recovering.  WOW, that about kicked my butt! 

Anywhoo, prior to my little setback I had been experimenting with creating "dirt batteries" using 500 ml drinking water bottles for containers.  I cut off the tops of the bottles and filled them with our East Tennessee red clay. 

For electrodes I used magnesium plates from a 15 lb ingot purchased on Ebay and graphite plates cut from larger bars also purchased on Ebay.  I placed the “dirt cells” in six pack carries for long neck beer bottles and wired them in series. 

Progress was slow because I didn’t have proper tools to machine the magnesium ingot.  I tried a cheap band saw with no success so I cut the individual plates by hand with a hack saw.  I know, but I’m semi-retired thanks to the economy so I’m trying to save money on my experiments…

I managed to create 12 cells, 2 six packs.  They put out about 18 volts, I was not able to measure the current but they light 2 sets of 6 bright white led’s from small led flight lights purchase at Home Depot brightly with no JTC’s.

Now here is the interesting part of the story. My “dirt batteries” were disconnected while I was away.  I could not resist sneaking out to the garage on Saturday to hook them back up.  When I reconnected them they lit, but dimly.  I have the lights point towards the house through the garage.  Sunday morning early I looked out and they seem brighter than when I initially reconnected them, but this is a very unscientific observation.  Perhaps Jeanna’s observations are correct.  I will keep an eye on this and keep you posted.

I’ve attached pictures of my “dirt batteries” and lights.

Plant battery update:  My “flower power” cell made with, mg ribbon and copper wire powering a standard JT started on April 5 died May 5, 30 days.  As with others, the mg ribbon broke at the soil line.  I plan on rejuvenating it with a mg plate replacing the mg ribbon.

Earth battery array update:  I had 3 long wire mg ribbon/copper wire arrays.  Two have died.  I suspect that the mg ribbon has broken as with my “flower power” experiment.

New Earth battery:  Using concepts learned from Pirate, I created a new cell using an entire 15 lb magnesium bar (20 x 4 x 3 inches and a large graphite plate ~ same surface area).  I buried the graphite (carbon)  3 feet deep true north and the mg bar about 6 inches deep spaced about 15 inches apart to take advantage of magnetic dip for my location ~65 degrees.  I used quartz pebbles, sand and clay to fill in the hole. 

The results were discouraging to say the least.  It puts out about the same power as my long wire cell.  I have the long wire cell and the mg/graphite plate cells wired in parallel powering a Kooler’s Backwards JT Circuit lighting 4 bright white 5 mm led’s.  The attached pictures show it in action.   

I thought the quartz may have improved the performance of the battery (John Hutchinson’s Crystal Battery) but now I am not so sure.  The native red clay alone with its iron oxide may have been a better option.  I now know that the arrangement was an ineffective use of electrode materials.  I plan on exhuming the graphite and magnesium for further experimentation.  I think the key as Lidmoter pointed out is to maximize electrode surface area, not just introducing a large mass. 

Keep moving forward -
Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on May 16, 2010, 01:55:50 PM
@Jeanna, @All

Here are some more pictures showing the lights powered by my "dirt batteries" and "earth batteries"

Cheers
Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 16, 2010, 06:09:43 PM
dcc:

wow, you have been very busy.  I am glad you are feeling better.

Nice work on cutting the Magnesium, you have some great materials there.

My first thought on seeing your EB in the ground is this, your electrodes are waaaay to close together.  On my first attempt, they were about 5 feet apart, and now they are about 15 feet apart.  I have read that the further the better, I just don't have any more space to do so.

Since you are using plates, I am not sure which way they should be oriented.  Possibly, you could bury some scale model sized plates in different orientations and take some readings before using the larger ones?  You know, one set (of small ones) facing flat side up, another try with flat side north/south, and maybe another with flat side east/west?  Then, which ever way gives the best results, bury your large ones.

With that much material and surface area, you should be getting at least 1.8+ volts and a good amount of mA's I should think.  (My guess would be 30-40 or probably more)

I also agree that it might have been better just to use your native soil around the electrodes as you said.  Your idea was a good one to try, but since the output is below what you should expect, I would try the regular soil.

Also, in my experience anyway, I did not get my best output for a while.  The original output was decent yes, but it got better in about a week or two.  Maybe this was the time it took for the soil to repack itself around the electrodes?  I don't really know.

Best of luck and thank you for all of your experiments and great reporting of them.

If you get a chance (maybe you did already but I missed it) can you post your sources for your materials?  Those appear to be much better and larger than anything I have found around here in KY.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on May 16, 2010, 07:58:31 PM
@Bill and @All

Thanks.  I purchased my materials from Ebay.  Yes I intend to rework my EER.  The reason the electrodes are so close together is that I was factoring in the magnetic dip angle of 65 degrees.  I wasn't able to dig deeper than 3 feet with a shovel.  Maybe the dip angle is not as important as the distance apart.  I've got 100 feet easy to play with.  When I get feeling better I'll give it another try.

BTW, I sneaked down to Lowes this morning and picked up 8 of those solar garden lights they have on sale for $2.49 a piece through 5-17. 

I took one apart and they come with 1 rechargeable AA NiCad, the solar cell, CDS with circuit to turn on and off automatically.  It runs on 1 AA.  It must be some kind of JT.  It has an ANA608 but I can't find a data sheet on it.

Well worth the money for EER/JT experimentation.

Pictures attached...

Planned Plant Battery Experiment - I've been thinking about creating 4 "Plant Batteries" with identical MG/Graphite electrodes in 4 identical pots.  Each will be filled with the same type of potting soil.

They will be watered via an automatic hydroponic irrigation system.

Two pots will use Miracle Grow with tap water and two will just use tap water. 

Two pots will have similar plants, 2 will have no plants.  Each will have a simple JTC w/white led.

I want to see what effect the plants and Miracle Grow have on the power output.

I’ll keep you posted.
 

Cheers!
Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: dcc on May 16, 2010, 09:50:35 PM
Hi All

I found this on the ANA608.  http://www.g3src.org.uk/newsletr/2009/feb2009.pdf
page 4

Cheers
Doug
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: tagor on May 17, 2010, 09:38:05 AM
Hi All

I found this on the ANA608.  http://www.g3src.org.uk/newsletr/2009/feb2009.pdf (http://www.g3src.org.uk/newsletr/2009/feb2009.pdf)
page 4

Cheers
Doug

 
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on May 18, 2010, 02:49:22 AM
@tagor,
Thanks for providing this info. I bet it applies to most of those solar led things. Mine doesn't look like that, but it does have an inductor and cap etc, so ZI be the circuit is similar.

@dcc,
wow
I am glad you are back and doing OK.
I was thinking how the oil spill is more like planetary apendicitis than a burst artery (which someone else had said)  and here you are making it real.
You didn't have to do that!

I love what you have done.
Your lights are nice and bright.

In fact I was NOT surprised when the carbon - mag was not as good as you expected.
I have seen many people say that while carbon has the better voltage numbers, it is not as good mA wise as copper.

I would love to see you put one of those with a 60 inch piece of copper IN A RING and see what happens.
This would be testing 2 things.
The surface area of 5 feet of wire 24 gauge is good enough, and the ring configuration.

I really want someone else to replicate this ring thing. It made the light go on where all a straight wire did was blink it on slowly and pale.
I think this is something new and maybe I stumbled onto something, but someone else needs to try it.

Great stuff,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on May 18, 2010, 05:53:21 AM
I want to report another interesting thing.

I left for 3 days and this time I kept all the circuits going while I was gone.

The phyllis replication is still going strong with a steady red led.
It stopped flashing last week sometime 10 days ago, perhaps and it is still steady.

The Plant battery #1 was out but I only had to move the 3 inch stub end of magnesium back into the soil and it has been lighting both of its leds all evening.

The other 2 are in similar plastic boxes.

One was blinking and it is still blinking, no matter what I do.

The other one originally gave so much mA that lidmotor made one like it and ran a bobbin bedini with it which I replicated.
I cannot get that one to go on.
Last week after prodding it for a while it went on and got brighter the second and third days and was very hard on the eyes.

The only difference between these is that the one which is now flashing has a lot of extra magnesium lose in the soil and this one which will not turn on does not.
So, perhaps the magnesium does replenish the mag in the ribbon.
I am still not convinced, but here is another thing:

The outside one which in the video I show having a ditch of dolomite for the bed of the ring of magnesium wire, was still on when I got there and still on when I left.
That is a really long time.


jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on May 24, 2010, 06:13:51 AM
Hi all   sorry for not being around. i have been busy going to court about a house i own. the lawyer, contractors and work has kept me from doing any testing. i just hope it ends soon. i will try when time is available for more testing.

i also need to repair my modified solar garden light. it's used for a night light in the bath room. i just need to replace the circuit board for now.

I also wanted to let you all know that my lights are still on and working my voltage is down to 1.09 volts but it has been on since 4/4/2010. i am sure the voltage will come back up if i was to water it.

also i was thinking i would try a cell in a tub of pulled up weeds for composting. it would stay wet, put off heat, and may be make some power at the same time. please tell me what you think about this.

Dennis
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 24, 2010, 11:45:08 AM
Pardon:

This is great news!  Nice work over there.

I hope things work out with your house.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on May 25, 2010, 12:11:37 AM

I also wanted to let you all know that my lights are still on and working my voltage is down to 1.09 volts but it has been on since 4/4/2010. i am sure the voltage will come back up if i was to water it.
This is great news.
How long and what gauge are the wires you used?

I only have 1 still going from back then which needs nothing but water.
I am doing a little study on how long the wires are etc.
Please do you remember how long the 2 wires are?

Quote
also i was thinking i would try a cell in a tub of pulled up weeds for composting. it would stay wet, put off heat, and may be make some power at the same time. please tell me what you think about this.

I love this idea.
There is a guy called theremart at the EF who has been working with compost.
I think this is a great place to experiment.

And good luck with the lawyer junk,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pegasus on June 12, 2010, 07:05:39 PM
Hello Jeanna and All..
I'm a novice in the joule thief art, and I have to power some leds,but until now I had no success.I have tried a basic circuit found on the web,rated for only on led, but didn't worked with 10 led put in parallel.I have to build a trap for the tomato moth,and I have to power ten  5mm 3Volts Ultraviolet leds put in series.The earth battery seems a good solution, because the trap is far from my house . I have a couple of  ultracaps rated 20 Farad 2,5 Volts.Can you suggest me a circuit that accomplish this task?
Thanks for your time....
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on June 12, 2010, 08:16:59 PM
Hi pegasus,
I am still trying to get enough power from my eer to light more than 1 white led.

If you go to the joule thief 101 thread, you can see some entries I made to help people get started working with the joule thief.
You probably need to get a bunch of magnesium ribbon since that has jump started many projects that were languishing.

I suggest looking at lasersaber's youtube channel. He was able to get well over what you will need to do what you are trying to accomplish.
But also check out lidmotor's latest videos esp the mosquito.

I am making a copper pipe wrapped with magnesium today to see how much I can get from it and I will report about that somewhere.

In my plant batteries, 60 inches of magnesium ribbon was enough to get me around 8mA into the joule thief for a few weeks, so I think you should plan on more.
I also found that making the wires go in a ring or spiral around the plant enhanced the result.
This is contrary to the N-S wisdom of eer's that dictates that it works better when the wires are on the right line. So, check out putting the wires in a ring around the plants.

And, let us know.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on June 13, 2010, 01:44:30 AM

Hi all,
This is short.
I made the barber pole today using a copper pipe instead of carbon, and about 60 inches of magnesium as lidmotor showed in yesterday's video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsiOyw3IrN0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsiOyw3IrN0)

Copper should not work as well as carbon, but it is much less expensive and easier to get than a piece of carbon that has the same diameter.
So, I used a 3/4 inch pipe which I sanded and wrapped in cotton cloth then wrapped that in densely wound magnesium ribbon, about 60 inches, and it works very well.
I also put a drop of oil onto the magnesium where it is exposed to the air, as lidmotor suggests.
This is very convenient and also portable battery.
I expect it to work very well in the earth too.
The price is right too. It is easy to pay $8 for a 75 foot roll which can make 15 of these.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 04:27:14 AM
  Jeanna:
   I just showed your new video to my wife today, when she saw it she said,  "Oh, just make that a hole lot bigger". 
      Could this be part of women's intuition?
                                                                 NZ
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on June 16, 2010, 01:07:12 AM
Hi NickZ,
 ;D
There are a few of us working on these and I am the only one of my gender (that I know of).  ;D

Can you get some magnesium ribbon?
It is a good price for the life you get as compared to a manufactured battery, so give it a try.
It works best with a joule thief because the joule thief makes so much with such low voltage.
There is a lot more experimenting to do.

I am making these for a few reasons, but the most important right now is to compare it with the plant batteries. THEY lasted a really long time and are going to be hard to beat.
The advantage of these is their portability.

It makes sense to me to have a bunch of both.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: NickZ on June 16, 2010, 03:02:33 AM
    @Jeanna:
   Thanks so much for your reply.  I am so totally amazed by the JT, and will definitely try the Barber Pole-Giant JT combo.   That is the direction that I'm walking towards, now. Belive it or not, I will name It:
             -The Mini Hadron-         Ahhhhh,  I can see it now....
      Although,  I may be joking a bit,   I won't be for long...
   
   What do you think of the following idea? 
   Using one (or more) 6 foot long copper grounding rods, covered with cotton, wound with magnesium ribbon, and buried in moist ground or inside a sealed moist 2" PVC pipe?  Then, connected to a version of the JT's big brother, and further wired to a big huge 2 foot TPU style toroid coil, in resonant feed-back mode? 
          Can you forsee any sparks flying?
   My best to you and the JT team, and the barber shop boys.
                                                                                      NZ

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on June 21, 2010, 12:38:07 AM
Well, I have to say that after a rash of attempts to make a good working galvanic battery that can rival the plant battery, I am utterly convinced that the plant battery can and does outperform anything like this.

I was able to run any of my plant batteries for over one week lighting one or two leds from a secondary.
In fact after just short of 3 months the phyllis plant battery is continuing to light the original led without any flashing or other signs of slowing down.

The convenient size of a 4" pot with a plant in it and a spiral of 20 inches of both copper and magnesium wires is the convenience winner.

The 12" pot with 60 inches of each wire is the longevity winner. It continued to light the leds for 5 weeks with the mere addition of 4 inches at the surface of the soil on a weekly basis.

GO PLANTS!

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: NickZ on June 21, 2010, 05:57:39 AM
 Jeanna: 
   Ok, thanks for the update,  the barber pole is on hold. Back to watering the plants.  One thing though, you should at least get an honorable mention, for trying.
   My best to you,
                          NZ
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 21, 2010, 08:19:27 AM
Jeanna:

I wonder what might happen if, after all of this time running your leds from the plant (Great job by the way!!) if you could take seeds from that plant, or a sprout, or whatever it might have, and start another plant from the one that is "used" to having the copper and mag. in its system.  Do you think the plant might adapt and possibly "learn" to use these new materials in a more efficient way?

In other words, do you think your output might actually increase by using the offspring from your original plant?

With what little I know about how nature works, I think it might be possible.  You might start a new hybrid strain of electric plants.

Excellent work you , and the others, have been doing here.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: NickZ on June 21, 2010, 05:00:38 PM
  @ Jeanna, Pirate, & All:
   One thing that you might also try, is to place small rusty nails inside the pots, or in the roots of the plants.  Different metals may help with the galvanic effect.
  I always noticed that plants that are in the ground grew faster and bigger than a control group of the same plants that was in pots, right next to the ones in the ground.  I think that is because there is much more electric current flowing in the ground than in any pot. I also noticed that some plants really took off if placed in aluminum pots instead of plastic or ceramic.  I think that it all has to do with the electricity in the ground, or in the aluminum pots.  In the case of aluminum,  the older and more sulfated the metal pot the better. 
   Sorry to hear about the Barber-Pole, not paning out as well, I was hoping to use my wife's idea of incasing the B-pole in a sealed PVC pipe to keep it moist, and be more portable.
   In anycase, good luck with your work.
                                         
  @Pirate:   I'd like your recomendation as to how to built the strongest and most powerfull JT ever made so far. The big brother of the JT.  As I plan to light my house, not just LEDs but need about 10 to 20 amps or more.  I noticed that one guy hooked up a JT to a 15 pound torroid.  So, what do you say?  If you like, you can answer in a different thread, (Giant JT thread)  Very interested in Your ideas...
                                                                                      NZ
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 21, 2010, 08:53:03 PM
NickZ:

To my knowledge, Jeanna has produced the highest output hand wound JT circuit to date. (See the Jeanna Circuit)

I think what you are asking for is not really possible.  The unique qualities of the JT circuit do not include boosting amps so, the trick is to find ways to use volts and frequency to run things that before folks thought required amps, or at least, mA's.  CFL's, floro tubes and leds come to mind.  With the JT circuit, you are converting amps or Ma's to higher voltage and higher frequencies.  Some of us have run motors from them but I do not think you could run a refrigerator motor with a JT circuit.  I could be wrong though.

Possibly, if new style electric motors were designed to run on volts and freq. then maybe this would be possible.  Most motors of this type used in the home require amps, and quite a few of them especially upon start up under load.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: NickZ on June 21, 2010, 11:09:52 PM
    @Pirate:
     Thank you so much for your honest answer,  it does also reflect what I was thinking.  So, back to the drawing board for me.
    I'm still waiting for the results from IST and his newest project of hooking up a JT to a florescent light ballast, and use that as leverage to output more than with just the JT.   If you hear of any other means of creating some home type of useable power, please let me know.
  I see a very usefull purpose in the "Jeanna light" as an emergency back-up, when the lights go out, which here is quiet often. And I think there can still be some upscale possible to that method, as is being shown by -Lidmotor- in his lighting a CFL and self charging videos.
                                                              Thanks again,
                                                                                    NZ
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on June 22, 2010, 12:47:00 AM
Thanks Nick and Bill,
I am not stopping the barber pole and air batteries, I just want to remind myself how much better the output was when there was a living plant in the middle of a spiral of the 2 wires.

@Bill,
I love the idea of using a next generation to look for adaptation that will enhance the electrical effect!!
LOVE IT.
It will take a bit of time to get seeds going, but I will do this for sure.
Thanks for the suggestion.

@Nick,
I was getting better results when I added Magnesium carbonate which is in dolomite.
There was a big difference in both the strength of the circuit and the vitality of the plant.
[One day without realizing what I was doing I "added" magnesium carbonate to the control that was not supposed to have any. It took off, but I lost my control after that. It was about 3 weeks into this.]

I am not going to try the iron only because I want to play with the magnesium element, because I am suspecting that the magnesium atoms/molecules might be lining up in a wire like direction.
How else can it be that adding a 4 inch piece of magnesium can get the 60 inch effect back?

I was not fishing around in the dirt and soldering the new magnesium bit to the old one, I was just kind of aiming in the same general direction.
It blows my mind, in fact.

So, thank you, both.

The thing on my plate is to work out a way to toss the joules back and forth across the wire ends of the secondary.
 I have done this a couple of times, and it really works, but I haven't done it every time, and I want to get this down.
IMO, It is the best way to stretch what is there to produce more.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 03, 2010, 01:37:41 PM
@ Jeanna
Quote
On day #15, (Apr 8 )  it went out and I touched it and a 5 inch piece of mg ribbon came off in my hands and I stuck it back in the soil to have a think, and the lights went on bright. ... a 5 inch piece of ribbon?---

That made me think about those old timers stories again.
I wonder if my planter has a current in the soil that now follows a certain path which was originally defined by the magnesium ribbon, but continues even though the ribbon is in bad shape?

Today I tested this thought again, because today the white light went out, which means the amps are below um 4mA or so.
I cut a fresh piece of Mg ribbon about 3-4 inches long and stuck it under the clip and into the soil at the place where the mg comes out of the soil.
then I sprayed the soil with some water as usual.

The light got really bright = brighter than it has been in a few days.
End Quote

This is good info to try if the circuit in the ground quits.
I will try if it happens.
FrznWtr

Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 03, 2010, 03:11:22 PM
Hi everybody,
Here is another video. It is following the development of the outside plant battery (aka earth battery  ;) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPmSbvssYUc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPmSbvssYUc)
It is only 3 minutes, but not very compressed so you can see the red led. Still, I may need to make pointers so you can see the light.
jeanna

Oh how I wish I'd seen this before I did the work I did today. I could have easily pored some Dolomite Lime in on top of my Mg Ribbon.
Well spilt milk & all
This must be turned into a good thing. I will dig another trench about a foot further from the fence and lay another Mg Ribbon.
On this one I will pore the dolomite before burying. Two experiments possible. Will a line in lime :') establish it's own power channel?
AND will two Neg lines next to each other add to my EB's overall output and if so how much.
Tomorrows project go to H.D. or green house for Dolomite. And retrench. Spiral also if time (With lime)
(Hope my birch like a sweet soil)
Need to hook up a JT soon also.
Right now my ribbon is shorted to the carbon.
FrznWtr
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 03, 2010, 03:24:46 PM
Hello Jeanna and All..
I'm a novice in the joule thief art, and I have to power some leds,but until now I had no success.I have tried a basic circuit found on the web,rated for only on led, but didn't worked with 10 led put in parallel.I have to build a trap for the tomato moth,and I have to power ten  5mm 3Volts Ultraviolet leds put in series.The earth battery seems a good solution, because the trap is far from my house . I have a couple of  ultracaps rated 20 Farad 2,5 Volts.Can you suggest me a circuit that accomplish this task?
Thanks for your time....

What a great use for an EER - I like it But the LED's should Prob go in Parilel on a secondary with multipal inductors. Ask Jeanna for help on that shes the inductor wiz gal.

for EB info to power it go to lazersabers thread here -might help.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8640.0

Hope you get it going
FrznWtr
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 03, 2010, 03:31:11 PM
Hi all,
This is short.
I made the barber pole today using a copper pipe instead of carbon, and about 60 inches of magnesium as lidmotor showed in yesterday's video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsiOyw3IrN0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsiOyw3IrN0)

Copper should not work as well as carbon, but it is much less expensive and easier to get than a piece of carbon that has the same diameter.
So, I used a 3/4 inch pipe which I sanded and wrapped in cotton cloth then wrapped that in densely wound magnesium ribbon, about 60 inches, and it works very well.
I also put a drop of oil onto the magnesium where it is exposed to the air, as lidmotor suggests.
This is very convenient and also portable battery.
I expect it to work very well in the earth too.
The price is right too. It is easy to pay $8 for a 75 foot roll which can make 15 of these.

jeanna

I hope you Barry one of these to see if the Mg deterioration is slowed or not.
FrznWtr
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 04, 2010, 07:15:05 AM
Hello to All
Well I finally found Dolomite Lime at Lows - last place I looked. I got 3 bags about $20 total.
It's 8pm so no digging till tomorrow.
I want to get some of that Alum/Magnesium welding wire to put in the Trench also, along with the Mg Ribbon. I am going out to plot and peruse the sight for a bit though.
Think I should whip up ah bourbon to help the creative flow

Home depot did have a 40' roll of 7 strand copper at about $.65 a ft. I think its about 3 or 4 gage (Can't member) the individual strands are about the same size as the soft iron tie wire in the concrete section - but I'll have to take my caliper with me tomorrow.
The sales Gall gave me the spool also. ++
I'll have to unwind this but its only 40' so can do in the driveway then I'll have 280' for my Positive E-W
It will have to be soldered but then for in the ground nothing fancy.
I'm thinking seriously measuring 280' of 26 gage mag wire that I have and burning it off for comparison.
I also found a copper plate thats silver coated and some copper ground strape (Lots of surface area) I'm thinking Plant Batt in the ground. My raised bed garden may even be conscripted for service (Better growth if ya raise em up outa the cold ground up here.)
Maybe a boost for the plants also.
That big steel ball float just caught my eye - 14" thick stuff - Was thinking resonant cavity - Hum

On another note I've noticed a couple comments about using Iron wire for the Neg   Element connections. The Neg is at the surface and I don't feel a real need exists for this.
I think the resistance of the Iron wire would offset any posable gain when the connecting point should be literally at the surface. Although someone did say something about putting your JT as close to the neg terminal as posable.
Any other thoughts on this?

I found a supper deal on E-bay for my trencher motor and after looking at that Spaid leaning on the fence I shot em a shipping Quote request.
See Here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200502649407&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_10454wt_1092
says free shipping but the caveat emporia is for contiguous 48. We take it as inevitable and their is no reason for it. But if it's not more then $150 I'll prob. get it. Thats a good price. Got some 4-5 hundred ft of trench I want if not more.
And then I can run the Poss line 2' deep with another one at 3" To 6" to test the difference.
Jumped out to shoot pic's of the trencher for ya.
The motor that lunched on it is about an 8 or 10 hp - that 16 should do alot better.

And last but not least is my new used meters I got - $150 with shipping for both. Little work ware, but they both function well (About 1/10th the new cost)
Now if we can just get things to the point we need that clamp meter. ;')
Till later FrznWtr
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: FrozenWaterLab on September 17, 2010, 02:14:41 AM
Hello All
This is the engine I've ordered for my trencher.
NEW ELEC START 16 HP SIDE SHAFT GAS ENGINE GO KART MOWR US $394.99
Shipping is $185 to my home. so cost $580 - Now lets see if I can swap em before winter hits.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pardon on November 29, 2010, 07:19:51 AM
Hello all
I just wanted to update my eer cell JT information. my cells were made
on 4/10/2010. i have not touched the cells sence that time. my JT finally
will not light steady it blinks 1 time about every 1 second. the blinking started on nov 26 2010. but until friday it was lit for almost 7 1/2 months

my cells are made with copper pipe and mag fire starter blocks.

Dennis
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 29, 2010, 07:44:37 AM
Hello all
I just wanted to update my eer cell JT information. my cells were made
on 4/10/2010. i have not touched the cells sence that time. my JT finally
will not light steady it blinks 1 time about every 1 second. the blinking started on nov 26 2010. but until friday it was lit for almost 7 1/2 months

my cells are made with copper pipe and mag fire starter blocks.

Dennis

Wow, nice work.  if you added a cap to the mix I'll bet the led would be on all of the time.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: kb24 on December 08, 2010, 04:21:00 PM
Hi,

I am new member in this forum. I am currently working on a project about earth battery. I am using a 2cm x 10cm plate of copper and zinc. My reading was 0.8V and 0.1mA per cell.

After reading so many post, i found out that joule thief can be used to power up my earth cell, so i make a joule thief from tutorial on youtube. But the joule thief i use can be only used on battery and not earth battery. May i know why?

And i read from earlier post that lightsaber has done a joule thief for earth battery. May i know the how to build it?
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Bizzy on January 02, 2011, 02:20:25 PM
Good Morning everyone
I have been working with earth batteries for most of the sommer and fall and recently came across the idea of a jule thief.
I built a joule thief and it works well on just a battery. However when i hook it up to my earth battery the voltage actually goes down from .899 volts to .458 volts. Does any one have any idea what direction i can go to correct this?
Let me know.
thanks
Scott
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: IotaYodi on January 02, 2011, 05:45:27 PM
Add more Earth cells in both series and parallel to up the voltage and amps. You could also upgrade the materiel's as well as their size. A small common copper and zinc setup doesnt put out many milliamps. Check out the difference in amps of the dry cell compared to the earth cell.   
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: freepow on January 04, 2011, 02:13:29 PM
@ All,  I am testing a joulethief powered by 1x AA rechargable battery with 1x LED lit + charging a supercap,
          and I left it on overnight and I lost  4 mV on the run battery, but gained 192 mV on my supercap.

          Is this overunity by any chance ????

          I will be doing more experiments.

          Sorry I know this does not belong in this thread, but I wondered why all the main members seem to
          have left the joulethief thread !
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2011, 08:53:23 PM
@freepow, I am NOT posting this to scold you or anybody.
It sort of sounds that way, so sorry. I mean NO unkindness.  ;)


I don't know why anybody uses the wrong thread knowingly.
that happened early on with this thread.

If I recall, this thread is about using an earth or plant (potted inside) battery to run a jtc.
It requires a pretty good jtc because the amperage in a plant battery is very low.

So, this was supposed to be a thread about getting the right amounts and parts together so anybody anywhere in the world with very little resources could have a light.

I think it was hard for people to keep from diverging, so when I accomplished what I was after, I stopped posting.
That is all recorded and anyone who wants to can look it up.

I don't mind repeating myself a little, because I still remember when others gave me that courtesy, but I am busy with other things and all that anybody needs is already posted somewhere around here.

About self running circuits, check out lasersaber's ringer or kooler's captret threads on the joule thief forums.
There is plenty to encourage and work with over there.

jeanna
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: kb24 on January 05, 2011, 02:38:59 AM
can anyone explain which is primary winding? 12turn or 4turn is the primary winding?

As i read through some previous pages, most having EB with low voltage but so much higher ampere than me. My EB only have 9V, 0.1mA.. I use my EB to power my fuji circuit but couldnt work. So i plan to use JT to power up my fuji perhaps.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2011, 08:45:29 AM
can anyone explain which is primary winding? 12turn or 4turn is the primary winding?

As i read through some previous pages, most having EB with low voltage but so much higher ampere than me. My EB only have 9V, 0.1mA.. I use my EB to power my fuji circuit but couldnt work. So i plan to use JT to power up my fuji perhaps.

4 is the primary, or as we decided to call the base windings.  If you add a super cap to your eb set-up, once charged a bit it should run your jt easily.  Just don't over charge it with your 9 volts as most are only 2.7 volts.  They can and will explode.

The spikes from your eb will be stored in the cap and from that you can run just about anything.  I learned this a while back and it allowed me to be able to do some cool things.

Hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Bizzy on January 05, 2011, 12:19:37 PM
Good Morning
I have been enjoying this site so much. Jeanna and Pirate88179 have been a tremendous help. Thanks again to both of you!
I always thought some of my ideas were simply reworked ideas as the motto above my work shop says "Ich erfinde das Rad täglich wieder" ( I reinvent the wheel) But Jeanna helped me realize that some of my tinkering and minor changes to other ideas may actually be usefull to others so in that light I would like to share some of them.
In experimenting with earth batteries this past sommer I was using shallow copper and zinc tubes  to test distance and positioning, it gave me lots of data some of which I am still going over. During those tests I also added a few others, the most promising of which was coal.
We all know that carbon is favorable to use over copper on the north/positive side. At the time i didn't have any carbon rods in my workshop but i did have lots of coal/carbon from my camp. so to use the coal, I cut a copper tube lengthwise in half for 2 feet. I put a hole in the ground using another metal rod then inserted the half copper tube so that the open part was facing south. I then crushed 2 pounds of coal into a fine powder an poured it into the hole with the half copeer tube and hooked it to a zinc tube thirty feet away.
I instantly got an increase of .1 volts ( just remember these were shallow tube tests) but the real advantage i found was that when other earth battery couples were dropping in voltage because of dry conditions the coal was very slow in dropping .I hope to test that better next year in the sommer when it gets dry up here along the lake.
Bizzy
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Curious_Celt on June 09, 2013, 03:48:16 AM
HI, I'm new to the forum. At the risk sounding dumb, could somebody please tell me what "EER" stands for? I understand "Joule Thief", as I have made a few of them, but the preceding acronym eludes me.. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 11, 2013, 01:47:20 AM
HI, I'm new to the forum. At the risk sounding dumb, could somebody please tell me what "EER" stands for? I understand "Joule Thief", as I have made a few of them, but the preceding acronym eludes me.. Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the forums.

EER is a term we coined a while back that means: Earth Energy Receiver.  We all felt like this better described what we were doing as opposed to Earth Battery as most of our designs were not batteries at all.

I hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Curious_Celt on June 11, 2013, 06:44:56 AM
Welcome to the forums.

EER is a term we coined a while back that means: Earth Energy Receiver.  We all felt like this better described what we were doing as opposed to Earth Battery as most of our designs were not batteries at all.

I hope this helps.

Bill

Thanks Pirate88179, for the explanation.

The only reference I could find on the Net was for "Envelope Elimination and Restoration" (a signal processing technique invented by L.R. Kahn around 1952) and I was pretty damn sure it wasn't that!

I take it the humble Earth Battery has moved on a good bit since I learned about them in my Engineering History course many moons ago.

My brother has asked me to investigate a workable back-up system for his off-grid power system, and I am considering an Earth Battery (sorry, EER) as probably his most likely bet. He lives in a pair of converted steel containers in the middle of a field in the home counties of England, and has a couple of acres of ground he can play with. I live in the wilds of Northern Scotland, so I can only advise him. As you guys are well ahead of the game, can you tell me if it would be worth his while to sink an array of electrodes into the ground, to make a "battery" (i.e, to boost the voltage and current by linking electrode pairs together in series/ parallel mode), and if so, do things like water table, geology, etc make a difference? I am no longer able to do these experiments myself due to ill-health, plus I do not have the garden area to run such a large scale experiment.

Any advice would be appreciated. Any results my brother records will of course be passed on to you all.
Title: Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 12, 2013, 02:11:40 AM
Thanks Pirate88179, for the explanation.

The only reference I could find on the Net was for "Envelope Elimination and Restoration" (a signal processing technique invented by L.R. Kahn around 1952) and I was pretty damn sure it wasn't that!

I take it the humble Earth Battery has moved on a good bit since I learned about them in my Engineering History course many moons ago.

My brother has asked me to investigate a workable back-up system for his off-grid power system, and I am considering an Earth Battery (sorry, EER) as probably his most likely bet. He lives in a pair of converted steel containers in the middle of a field in the home counties of England, and has a couple of acres of ground he can play with. I live in the wilds of Northern Scotland, so I can only advise him. As you guys are well ahead of the game, can you tell me if it would be worth his while to sink an array of electrodes into the ground, to make a "battery" (i.e, to boost the voltage and current by linking electrode pairs together in series/ parallel mode), and if so, do things like water table, geology, etc make a difference? I am no longer able to do these experiments myself due to ill-health, plus I do not have the garden area to run such a large scale experiment.

Any advice would be appreciated. Any results my brother records will of course be passed on to you all.

I hate to say this but his best bang for the buck would be solar, in my opinion.  EER's using electrodes can not be hooked up in series as they all share the same electrolyte...the earth.  I tried that in the early days with no luck.  There is not much power available with my set-up unless you use a large boostcap like I did to catch the large spikes I show on my scope shots in my video.  Then you can use a joule thief circuit to run lots of stuff, but, the EER will not do this continuously as it will not keep up with the load.

I hope this helps,

Bill