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Author Topic: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.  (Read 153101 times)

Offline Tenbatsu

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2010, 04:28:45 PM »
Jeanna,

I wonder if it's possible to protect the magnesium from corrosion while maintaining your current volt/amp output. 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TY7-3YNYBM3-2&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78823ea2b72c9f7ab2c919cb659cfa15

If you get a chance take a look at that link.  It seems some type of acrylic paints containing electrically conductive polypyrrole  can prevent corrosion of magnesium.  I think it would be worth a shot to see if you can get some more life out of the magnesium tape while maintaining your current output.

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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #136 on: May 12, 2010, 05:02:21 AM »
Hi everybody,

Here is another video. It is following the development of the outside plant battery (aka earth battery  ;) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPmSbvssYUc

It is only 3 minutes, but not very compressed so you can see the red led. Still, I may need to make pointers so you can see the light.

---------
And on another front:
Plant battery #1 refused to turn on after a week of rest, but it turns out that the magnesium had gone even though the circuit was off!??? Can you figure that?
So, all I needed to do was add a 4 inch piece of fresh magnesium and it started up again!

There is more thinking to do on this. If it cannot be turned off, it is really interesting to think about what is happening.
Maybe lidmotor happened on a great idea to collect the output in a capacitor when it is not in "use".

jeanna
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using Plant Battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #137 on: May 13, 2010, 12:32:20 AM »
Hi everybody,

I need to describe the INCREASE that I have been seeing over and over in all the EER plant batteries with the jtc.
It doesn't make normal galvanic or even earth battery common sense.
I think this is the combination of the EER, the joule thief and possibly the cap across the leads.

In all of my plant batteries, the lights get brighter until the magnesium ribbon is nearly gone or completely gone.
Then they may still run for a while, but at lower brightness.

I missed this at first because of my normal assumptions.

Here is what happened.

It started when I decided to stop 'using' the battery when I was gone for a few days.
When I returned, I had to wait a very long time for the light to even turn on .
Meanwhile, I never took the leads off the phyllis battery, so it is not really included in this test, except you will see later, that it is. (Phyllis battery has a mag firestarter and copper pipe for electrodes.)

Plant battery #1 which has a jtc with 2 secondaries and a white and red led and ran straight for 5 weeks refused to turn on.
I just left it connected and took off again for 5 more days, but all the others were still unconnected.
When I returned, plant battery #1 was still off, so I figured it was gone and got ready to dissect it.

The 2 others which are #6 and #7 and had 6ma and 8mA on their first days could not start a joule thief at all.
I was stumped.
So, I put #6 and #7 in series and that combo lit a jtc with a white led on the secondary.
I noticed that it was getting brighter over time.
Finally it was really bright, and I split it and clipped the jtc to just #7, and now it lit up just fine.
I had left the red jtc in the ground so I got out that germanium transistor jtc and hooked it up to #6.
Nothing.

But, I was busy making that video so I just left it in place... and forgot it.
At about 10 PM I noticed a faint white light coming from its led!
Then this morning the light was even brighter.
So, the #6 has totally revived!

Meanwhile, the #7 led is blindingly bright.
So, IT has totally revived.

Before I started the dissection, I looked closely at the #1 and saw that the clip on the magnesium ribbon was only touching a 1 inch piece.
I cut and added a 4 inch piece to the clip and buried the wire near the magnesium line, added a few squirts of water spray, and both lights went on. Over the afternoon they got dim then this morning, without anything being done to them, they are brighter again.

Now, about the phyllis plant battery (used to be called #5).
She just blinked from the very beginning.
In the lase few weeks, I thought the length of the 'on' blinks was longer than the length of the 'off' times.
By last week, I was sure of it.
In fact, the on time was 4 to 1, then 5 to 1, then even 9 to 1, on to off, and irregular like that, which is pretty strange.
When I got back and all the rest of the PB's were unconnected and off this phyllis was straight on and has not even flashed one time in the last 3 days!

So, there is some kind of self regulation or self pumping going on.

----
I think of being on a swing with no one to push and being too high to kick the ground.
I lean back and pull, then forward and only a tiny movement happens. Then again and a tiny bit more. And so on until I am actually swinging and can use the swing to enhance MY efforts to increase the swing.

That is what I think is happening with the joule thief circuit in this plant EER .

Where is Dennis and cosmic farmer and eeresearcher and dcc Bill, etc??
Please someone else try this.

I also think that making a ring or a spiral is very helpful, but others need to be doing this too...please!

thank you,

jeanna
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Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2010, 01:42:53 PM »
@Jeanna , @All,

I was hospitalized with acute appendicitis last Sunday and I'm now at home recovering.  WOW, that about kicked my butt! 

Anywhoo, prior to my little setback I had been experimenting with creating "dirt batteries" using 500 ml drinking water bottles for containers.  I cut off the tops of the bottles and filled them with our East Tennessee red clay. 

For electrodes I used magnesium plates from a 15 lb ingot purchased on Ebay and graphite plates cut from larger bars also purchased on Ebay.  I placed the “dirt cells” in six pack carries for long neck beer bottles and wired them in series. 

Progress was slow because I didn’t have proper tools to machine the magnesium ingot.  I tried a cheap band saw with no success so I cut the individual plates by hand with a hack saw.  I know, but I’m semi-retired thanks to the economy so I’m trying to save money on my experiments…

I managed to create 12 cells, 2 six packs.  They put out about 18 volts, I was not able to measure the current but they light 2 sets of 6 bright white led’s from small led flight lights purchase at Home Depot brightly with no JTC’s.

Now here is the interesting part of the story. My “dirt batteries” were disconnected while I was away.  I could not resist sneaking out to the garage on Saturday to hook them back up.  When I reconnected them they lit, but dimly.  I have the lights point towards the house through the garage.  Sunday morning early I looked out and they seem brighter than when I initially reconnected them, but this is a very unscientific observation.  Perhaps Jeanna’s observations are correct.  I will keep an eye on this and keep you posted.

I’ve attached pictures of my “dirt batteries” and lights.

Plant battery update:  My “flower power” cell made with, mg ribbon and copper wire powering a standard JT started on April 5 died May 5, 30 days.  As with others, the mg ribbon broke at the soil line.  I plan on rejuvenating it with a mg plate replacing the mg ribbon.

Earth battery array update:  I had 3 long wire mg ribbon/copper wire arrays.  Two have died.  I suspect that the mg ribbon has broken as with my “flower power” experiment.

New Earth battery:  Using concepts learned from Pirate, I created a new cell using an entire 15 lb magnesium bar (20 x 4 x 3 inches and a large graphite plate ~ same surface area).  I buried the graphite (carbon)  3 feet deep true north and the mg bar about 6 inches deep spaced about 15 inches apart to take advantage of magnetic dip for my location ~65 degrees.  I used quartz pebbles, sand and clay to fill in the hole. 

The results were discouraging to say the least.  It puts out about the same power as my long wire cell.  I have the long wire cell and the mg/graphite plate cells wired in parallel powering a Kooler’s Backwards JT Circuit lighting 4 bright white 5 mm led’s.  The attached pictures show it in action.   

I thought the quartz may have improved the performance of the battery (John Hutchinson’s Crystal Battery) but now I am not so sure.  The native red clay alone with its iron oxide may have been a better option.  I now know that the arrangement was an ineffective use of electrode materials.  I plan on exhuming the graphite and magnesium for further experimentation.  I think the key as Lidmoter pointed out is to maximize electrode surface area, not just introducing a large mass. 

Keep moving forward -
Doug
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Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #139 on: May 16, 2010, 01:55:50 PM »
@Jeanna, @All

Here are some more pictures showing the lights powered by my "dirt batteries" and "earth batteries"

Cheers
Doug
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #140 on: May 16, 2010, 06:09:43 PM »
dcc:

wow, you have been very busy.  I am glad you are feeling better.

Nice work on cutting the Magnesium, you have some great materials there.

My first thought on seeing your EB in the ground is this, your electrodes are waaaay to close together.  On my first attempt, they were about 5 feet apart, and now they are about 15 feet apart.  I have read that the further the better, I just don't have any more space to do so.

Since you are using plates, I am not sure which way they should be oriented.  Possibly, you could bury some scale model sized plates in different orientations and take some readings before using the larger ones?  You know, one set (of small ones) facing flat side up, another try with flat side north/south, and maybe another with flat side east/west?  Then, which ever way gives the best results, bury your large ones.

With that much material and surface area, you should be getting at least 1.8+ volts and a good amount of mA's I should think.  (My guess would be 30-40 or probably more)

I also agree that it might have been better just to use your native soil around the electrodes as you said.  Your idea was a good one to try, but since the output is below what you should expect, I would try the regular soil.

Also, in my experience anyway, I did not get my best output for a while.  The original output was decent yes, but it got better in about a week or two.  Maybe this was the time it took for the soil to repack itself around the electrodes?  I don't really know.

Best of luck and thank you for all of your experiments and great reporting of them.

If you get a chance (maybe you did already but I missed it) can you post your sources for your materials?  Those appear to be much better and larger than anything I have found around here in KY.

Thanks,

Bill
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Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #141 on: May 16, 2010, 07:58:31 PM »
@Bill and @All

Thanks.  I purchased my materials from Ebay.  Yes I intend to rework my EER.  The reason the electrodes are so close together is that I was factoring in the magnetic dip angle of 65 degrees.  I wasn't able to dig deeper than 3 feet with a shovel.  Maybe the dip angle is not as important as the distance apart.  I've got 100 feet easy to play with.  When I get feeling better I'll give it another try.

BTW, I sneaked down to Lowes this morning and picked up 8 of those solar garden lights they have on sale for $2.49 a piece through 5-17. 

I took one apart and they come with 1 rechargeable AA NiCad, the solar cell, CDS with circuit to turn on and off automatically.  It runs on 1 AA.  It must be some kind of JT.  It has an ANA608 but I can't find a data sheet on it.

Well worth the money for EER/JT experimentation.

Pictures attached...

Planned Plant Battery Experiment - I've been thinking about creating 4 "Plant Batteries" with identical MG/Graphite electrodes in 4 identical pots.  Each will be filled with the same type of potting soil.

They will be watered via an automatic hydroponic irrigation system.

Two pots will use Miracle Grow with tap water and two will just use tap water. 

Two pots will have similar plants, 2 will have no plants.  Each will have a simple JTC w/white led.

I want to see what effect the plants and Miracle Grow have on the power output.

I’ll keep you posted.
 

Cheers!
Doug
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Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #142 on: May 16, 2010, 09:50:35 PM »
Hi All

I found this on the ANA608.  http://www.g3src.org.uk/newsletr/2009/feb2009.pdf
page 4

Cheers
Doug
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Offline tagor

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2010, 09:38:05 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #144 on: May 18, 2010, 02:49:22 AM »
@tagor,
Thanks for providing this info. I bet it applies to most of those solar led things. Mine doesn't look like that, but it does have an inductor and cap etc, so ZI be the circuit is similar.

@dcc,
wow
I am glad you are back and doing OK.
I was thinking how the oil spill is more like planetary apendicitis than a burst artery (which someone else had said)  and here you are making it real.
You didn't have to do that!

I love what you have done.
Your lights are nice and bright.

In fact I was NOT surprised when the carbon - mag was not as good as you expected.
I have seen many people say that while carbon has the better voltage numbers, it is not as good mA wise as copper.

I would love to see you put one of those with a 60 inch piece of copper IN A RING and see what happens.
This would be testing 2 things.
The surface area of 5 feet of wire 24 gauge is good enough, and the ring configuration.

I really want someone else to replicate this ring thing. It made the light go on where all a straight wire did was blink it on slowly and pale.
I think this is something new and maybe I stumbled onto something, but someone else needs to try it.

Great stuff,

jeanna
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #145 on: May 18, 2010, 05:53:21 AM »
I want to report another interesting thing.

I left for 3 days and this time I kept all the circuits going while I was gone.

The phyllis replication is still going strong with a steady red led.
It stopped flashing last week sometime 10 days ago, perhaps and it is still steady.

The Plant battery #1 was out but I only had to move the 3 inch stub end of magnesium back into the soil and it has been lighting both of its leds all evening.

The other 2 are in similar plastic boxes.

One was blinking and it is still blinking, no matter what I do.

The other one originally gave so much mA that lidmotor made one like it and ran a bobbin bedini with it which I replicated.
I cannot get that one to go on.
Last week after prodding it for a while it went on and got brighter the second and third days and was very hard on the eyes.

The only difference between these is that the one which is now flashing has a lot of extra magnesium lose in the soil and this one which will not turn on does not.
So, perhaps the magnesium does replenish the mag in the ribbon.
I am still not convinced, but here is another thing:

The outside one which in the video I show having a ditch of dolomite for the bed of the ring of magnesium wire, was still on when I got there and still on when I left.
That is a really long time.


jeanna
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Offline Pardon

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #146 on: May 24, 2010, 06:13:51 AM »
Hi all   sorry for not being around. i have been busy going to court about a house i own. the lawyer, contractors and work has kept me from doing any testing. i just hope it ends soon. i will try when time is available for more testing.

i also need to repair my modified solar garden light. it's used for a night light in the bath room. i just need to replace the circuit board for now.

I also wanted to let you all know that my lights are still on and working my voltage is down to 1.09 volts but it has been on since 4/4/2010. i am sure the voltage will come back up if i was to water it.

also i was thinking i would try a cell in a tub of pulled up weeds for composting. it would stay wet, put off heat, and may be make some power at the same time. please tell me what you think about this.

Dennis
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #147 on: May 24, 2010, 11:45:08 AM »
Pardon:

This is great news!  Nice work over there.

I hope things work out with your house.

Bill
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #148 on: May 25, 2010, 12:11:37 AM »
Quote from: Pardon on May 24, 2010, 06:13:51 AM

I also wanted to let you all know that my lights are still on and working my voltage is down to 1.09 volts but it has been on since 4/4/2010. i am sure the voltage will come back up if i was to water it.
This is great news.
How long and what gauge are the wires you used?

I only have 1 still going from back then which needs nothing but water.
I am doing a little study on how long the wires are etc.
Please do you remember how long the 2 wires are?

Quote
also i was thinking i would try a cell in a tub of pulled up weeds for composting. it would stay wet, put off heat, and may be make some power at the same time. please tell me what you think about this.

I love this idea.
There is a guy called theremart at the EF who has been working with compost.
I think this is a great place to experiment.

And good luck with the lawyer junk,

jeanna
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Offline Pegasus

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2010, 07:05:39 PM »
Hello Jeanna and All..
I'm a novice in the joule thief art, and I have to power some leds,but until now I had no success.I have tried a basic circuit found on the web,rated for only on led, but didn't worked with 10 led put in parallel.I have to build a trap for the tomato moth,and I have to power ten  5mm 3Volts Ultraviolet leds put in series.The earth battery seems a good solution, because the trap is far from my house . I have a couple of  ultracaps rated 20 Farad 2,5 Volts.Can you suggest me a circuit that accomplish this task?
Thanks for your time....
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