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Author Topic: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.  (Read 133255 times)

Offline jeanna

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dissection
« Reply #120 on: April 05, 2010, 11:00:05 PM »
OK ready?
I hope nobody is too squeemish... ;D

The magnesium has great bites taken out of it all along its surface.
It broke into 5 pieces when I was handling it.
It is less wide throughout. This is amazing, I think. The ribbon is uniformly narrower except where it was out in the air.

I can see chunks of black crumbly magnesium in clods stuck onto it, but I cannot say if it is helping at all.

The copper has areas of thick clods that are greenish or blackish. Both look like copper oxides of some type.

The plant (or single leaf with root) looks green and fine.


This is the test that SHOULD most resemble the water battery because the copper and magnesium were separated by a peat pot with and the magnesium was more isolated from anything that could aid it in any ion exchange.
I was surprised it lasted as long as it did.
20 inches of each magnesium and copper.
a pinch of dolomite
no microbes until the last hour (because at that last hour I forgot I was testing this without them.)
============
EDIT
I looked back.
This plant battery with 20 inches of mg ribbon and running a germanium transistor jtc  has been on for 4 straight days and nights
4 x 24 =  96 hours constant running
==============

thank you,
jeanna

The pics:
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 01:13:12 AM by jeanna »

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dissection
« Reply #120 on: April 05, 2010, 11:00:05 PM »

Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #121 on: April 06, 2010, 12:01:50 AM »
Jeanna

That's what I was afraid of on the A ribbon.  Pretty fragile.  I did a test this afternoon using magnesium ribbon and copper vs magnesium ribbon and graphite using a water battery. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BnHIK1LnsA

The magnesium ribbon is already all black.  I think the firestarters would do better.

I used heat shrink tubing to attach copper lead wires to my mag ribbons.  That may help with ends breaking off a little.

My long wire magnesium/copper earth cells seem to be dropping off in power as well.  I thought it was because of the dry weather but it may be because of the magnesium ribbons.  I'm still getting 1.45 V but current is down  :(

I wonder how Lasersaber's long wire eb's are doing?

I sure wish the city of Murray KY would have let Nathan build the power station for them.  That would have cleared a lot of things up. *LOL*
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 12:25:20 AM by dcc »

Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2010, 12:47:11 AM »

That's what I was afraid of on the magnesium ribbon.  Pretty fragile.  I did a test this afternoon using magnesium ribbon and copper vs magnesium ribbon and graphite using a water battery. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BnHIK1LnsA
perfect test.
thank you for doing that.
I remember gadgetmall's friend said something similar. The graphite looked better but performed worse.

But Bill gets great results.
Hey Bill, have you tried copper lately?

Quote
The magnesium ribbon is already all black.  I think the firestarters would do better.

Yes, I wanted to get the littlest piece of magnesium that would start a joule thief circuit. that way I had the output elements I wanted and I could see the damage easily, and calculate the time.

I agree that the firestarters are probably better, but harder to tell when only a small amount of corrosion has begun.
Now, I can make some tests.


Quote
I used heat shrink tubing to attach copper lead wires to my mag ribbons.  That may help with ends breaking off a little.
good idea. I don't own a hair drier any more.  ;) Is there any way to heat the shrink without a hair drier. I have the heatshrink stuff....maybe I will stick it on the radiator .


thank you,

jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2010, 12:47:11 AM »
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Offline Pardon

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2010, 12:53:00 AM »
Jeanna i am using fire starter blocks not ribbon. i wish i had the ribbon

I rebuilt my cell that had a mag block wrapped in paper using copper wire. the most mamps i could get out of it was .07 not to good.

I connected iron/steel wire to the magnesium block and copper wire to an art supply store graphite rod. the graphite rod is about 1/2 inch in diameter by about 4 inches long. this so far is my best cell it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps.

i have connected 4 cells in parallel and can now light a modified chilliqueen super jt. about 3/4 bright white led. or a regular jt but it's not as bright. i think this setup will run for weeks at a time.

Dennis

Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2010, 01:35:14 AM »
Jeanna

You can shrink shirink wrap tubing with a match or a propane torch or you might try your soldering iron or a clothes iron.  Just be very careful when working with magnesium ribbon.  If that goes up get away quick.  I don't know if it can be put out.  :o

Cheers
Doug

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2010, 01:35:14 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #125 on: April 06, 2010, 03:44:50 AM »
Jeanna i am using fire starter blocks not ribbon. i wish i had the ribbon
....... the most mamps i could get out of it was .07 not to good.
not good.
but it does explain why I could never get my eb to work when I was using cu or C and a mg block.


Quote
I connected iron/steel wire to the magnesium block and copper wire to an art supply store graphite rod. the graphite rod is about 1/2 inch in diameter by about 4 inches long. this so far is my best cell it puts out 1.31 volts and 3.10 mamps.
This sounds really great.
my germanium jtc will start with 2.8mA IF I have the memory cap across the battery leads.
Have you tried that?

Quote
i have connected 4 cells in parallel and can now light a modified chilliqueen super jt. about 3/4 bright white led. or a regular jt but it's not as bright. i think this setup will run for weeks at a time.

Are you using chilliqueen's 2 transistor jt?

You said you were going to twist some iron wire around the mag firestarter. Is that what you did?

@dcc,
Quote
Just be very careful when working with magnesium ribbon.  If that goes up get away quick.  I don't know if it can be put out.  :o
I agree.
I think you cannot put it out. Smothering it (earth) is the only way I have seen on the web.

But, now that I have seen what happened, I nolonger think that it is the place where they connect that is the problem...the part above the ground is the only strong piece left.

====

I am not at all discouraged by this.
This is almost a control unit.

I wonder if there is an item that is like a stick. I thought of sparklers a while ago. Maybe a sparkler would make a good electrode. One with enough surface area but also enough thickness that it would deteriorate evenly.

Anyway my hope is to find a way to have the soil replenish the ions so there is no or minimal deterioration.

By the way, I looked at the leaf again.
I believe it loved being the host for this experiment.
Can't say if it is the HF or the Mg or dolomite or all of it, but this leaf is thick sturdy and very green today.
It has a glow to it.
Florists put shiny stuff on leaves to make the plant look healthy. This looks like that but for real.
I was looking for root growth earlier and did not notice the leaf.
I will have to add that to my tests.

Have any of you noticed an improvement in the appearance of your plants?

jeanna


Offline Pardon

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #126 on: April 06, 2010, 05:32:38 AM »
let me just back up a bit, no i did not wrap iron wire around the block. what i did do was test wire in water and test different metals in water. my iron/steel wire test minus voltage, magnesium tests minus voltage. so i think wrapping iron wire around magnesium would not give good results.

i then updated my cells using copper wire for the plus and iron wire for the minus. with all cells wired together is am getting 1.23 volts and 5.15 mamps

out of the 5 cells i have no two are alike but all of them use the fire starter for the magnesium.

if my file will attach this is the circuit i use one is the chilliqueen and the other is my modified version of it

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #126 on: April 06, 2010, 05:32:38 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #127 on: April 06, 2010, 06:21:27 AM »
Jeanna:

Yes, back in the early days I was using copper.  The best thing about that was to put to rest the galvanic crowd that we had at that time.  I used two tubes of copper cut from the same pipe and still got volts and mA's when aligned properly which told me something else was making the juice...telluric currents maybe.

Now, we have seen folks do the flower pot experiments back then calling it an earth battery but since they were not in the ground, their results were not that great.  Galvanic probably.

But, now you added the plants into the mix so I don't know what might be going on here.  This is a new and different look at the EER or earth battery.

The fire starter blocks should work for you as I have used them in all of my early experiments.  They may still break down but it should take a lot longer for them to do that.  I was able to light my first led outside using one.

It will be interesting to see if Lasersaber's ribbon in the ground deteriorates or if the earth protects it.  My 5 lb mag. block may indeed be breaking down but, it may take such a long time that I don't notice it.  (I hope it does not)

I look forward to seeing what happens here with these power plants.  I never would have thought of trying this, great thinking!

Bill

Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2010, 11:58:08 PM »
Quote
I have 2 power plants that have turned off today. The first one which has a red led is barely on at all so I am calling it off.

I think the most useful thing to do is to weigh the magnesium from both of the small plants and see how much was used before the breaks occurred.
The magnesium is not spent in these ribbons, but enough is missing that the ribbon cannot hold together, so the weight of what was used may not actually mean much. But it is better to get the weight now.

I am thinking of trying some montmorillinite clay the soil too. that is another possible source for magnesium and it makes an acid soil rather than the base of the dolomite. hmm  or a little of both and neutral?

Those old time earth batteries were made from iron not magnesium , so I may not be able to get the right chemistry here, but it is intriguing. Perhaps I should be using zinc with magnesium as anodic backup, but that will be a later test as the volts are so low with the zinc. And magnesium is a soil nutrient.

jeanna

OK I put all that on hold.

I discovered that the ribbon had broken at the surface of the soil as it had done with someone else. I repotted it and stuffed all the broken bits of magnesium back into the soil by the ribbon and it is starting up again now. The rest of the ribbon looked quite good as a matter of fact.

So, I will do all the weighing etc later.

 ;),

jeanna

edit:

Now, I think I need to rethink my plan.
I thought I would be able to tell how much magnesium was being used by the weight of magnesium loss over time, but it seems to be breaking through unevenly . so, I guess I will reconnect the shreds of ribbon and restart until it is gone.
I suppose I can solder the pieces.
If dcc can use a cig lighter on the heatshrink, I guess solder won't start a blaze.

The light is bright again, btw.  :D

jeanna
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 06:12:08 AM by jeanna »

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2010, 11:58:08 PM »
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Offline dcc

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2010, 02:55:46 AM »
Here's my plant battery after 9 days.  It seems to be thriving.  Magnesium ribbon south, copper wire north.  Made little "Power Plant" installed joule thief.

Doug

Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2010, 08:35:25 PM »
@dcc,
Flowepower, what another great name for this... and a windmill, no less. ;D

---------
@All,

I finally got my magnesium block to work.

It took making a jtc with
 a memory cap at the leads, 
1k at the base, and a
14 turns, 50v secondary when used with a 1.2v AAA, and a
RED led on the 14 turns secondary wire.

I realized the other day that using the secondary wire is not only more flexible because you can regulate the volts output by changing the number of turns, but the requirement is much less, so it only needs to be able to start the transistor. period.
After that it does not "suck the joules" from the earth battery, if you will.

After that, a good jtc with secondary is all that is needed.

So, it flashes a tiny red light about 2x per second.

Maybe now, the self currents from the plant's ionic movements will help it to grow to a steady red light.

At the energetic forum someone gave lidmotor a link to some research being done at Harvard making almost this very thing.
EXCEPT
They are putting salt into the battery unit.  ??? :'(
that will hurt the earth, while this will not.
I hope some of the Harvard researchers can see this and try it, since it is in the direction of permaculture not soil death.

jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2010, 08:35:25 PM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #131 on: April 15, 2010, 04:29:13 AM »
Here is another quick piece about Plant battery #1, which is the one in the video.

It has 5 feet of each mag ribbon and 18awg copper wire wound in a spiral and separated by a piece of unprinted newspaper with a plant in the soil  inside of all that, and more soil outside of that to the pot edge.

It went out a few times in the time it has been working. Each time, I did very little more than add water or microbes or dolomite. Once I changed from a germanium jtc with the light at the transistor to one with 2 lights on the secondary. The last time I changed one of the leds to a red one.
And it keeps on going.

On day #15, (Apr 8 )  it went out and I touched it and a 5 inch piece of mg ribbon came off in my hands and I stuck it back in the soil to have a think, and the lights went on bright. ... a 5 inch piece of ribbon?---

That made me think about those old timers stories again.
I wonder if my planter has a current in the soil that now follows a certain path which was originally defined by the magnesium ribbon, but continues even though the ribbon is in bad shape?

Today I tested this thought again, because today the white light went out, which means the amps are below um 4mA or so.
I cut a fresh piece of Mg ribbon about 3-4 inches long and stuck it under the clip and into the soil at the place where the mg comes out of the soil.
then I sprayed the soil with some water as usual.

The light got really bright = brighter than it has been in a few days.

-----
This is very promising.
I do NOT want to disturb anything and my plan is to continue to add a little magnesium ribbon at the soil edge for as long as it continues to work (or next year whichever comes first... ;D )
Then I will take it apart and look at the details... entrails.

Is anybody else watching the circuit getting less and less powerful?
If so, please try this and post your results.
Just cut a 5 inch piece and stick it into the ground and add it to the clip that is holding the original magnesium in place, and do not disturb the rest of it if possible.

Then please post what happens.

thank you,

jeanna

Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #132 on: April 23, 2010, 12:48:15 AM »
Here is some more in the same vein as the last post.
Plant Battery #4 went together on Apr 10th. It was never very strong, but it worked, and I used a red led on the secondary for the light.
On day #10 which was Apr 20, the red led started to pulse. It went out, then a moment later it went on pretty bright and stayed on for 20 seconds then went out again. I fiddled a little but really, I just wanted to see what is going on without changing anything.
So, today day #12 with the light still pulsing about like before, I took out the soil on the side with the magnesium ribbon.
There seems to be only a couple of 2 inch pieces left?

OK that is right. The action of the battery ate the ribbon.
But why was it even pulsing?
The piece at the top where it connects to the clip is about 2 inches long.

I promise you that 2 inches is NOT enough magnesium ribbon to keep this going.

So, the best candidate for the explanation is that the river of ions is continuing to flow in the soil even in the absence of any ribbon.
Once it is directed, it continues.
Next time, I think I better weigh the dolomite I put in there.

I guess a good test to negatively test this river idea right now, would be to return the soil (river randomized)  and add the 2 inch piece under the clip and see if it starts the flash sequence again.

Instead, I am going to let the soil get very dry and fish out all the bits of mag ribbon I can find to weigh them to see how much got used to run a joule thief for 12 days.

-----------How does this sound?--------------------

Maybe I am making a magnesium-copper battery with dolomite as the permanent electrode, but the dolomite must first be "trained" with the presence of the ribbon. When the ribbon has dissolved, the magnesium in the dolomite is enough to continue the current production and the 'battery' only needs a short piece of mg ribbon as connection point.

any more ideas??
??

thank you,

jeanna

Offline jeanna

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Re: EER Joule Thief using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
« Reply #133 on: April 24, 2010, 08:51:33 PM »
Here is a short video showing the crink on the red led side and the normal shaped leaves on the white led side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CktAanNTENo

thanks for watching.

jeanna

Offline jeanna

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Hi everybody,
Tonight I made this replication of lidmotor's bobin bedini which can run from a very low amp battery source.
And it works!
So, it is plant battery number 6 which has only 5 leaves of a philo plant and 30 inches of magnesium ribbon and 20 inches of copper wire. That is it!
If this follows the pattern from the past, this will run for 5 days then as the magnesium ribbon begins to weaken, it will slow down. Then, I can restore the full amperage by adding only a small piece of fresh magnesium. 4 to 5 inches usually works and adds another week of life to the battery.

YEAY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIOE5YXQRs

jeanna

 

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