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Author Topic: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?  (Read 21037 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2015, 09:22:30 PM »
Thanks Vidar,
I would start by manually switching and measuring the forces to see that there is
OU potential and then go on to making the valves work automatically and then
with the power available I'd kick the block over the edge and use that power to
switch the valves and hopefully have extra left over to use elsewhere.

In some other work I have done that has OU there has to be about 250-300% to
do the switching so that it will self run. So If I used 1 foot lb to push the block
in place then it would have to have lets say 100% more to do the switching and
100% more to kick the block out and 100% more to kick the next block in place
roughly.

Norman

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Offline norman6538

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2015, 09:27:59 PM »
The question I'm struggling with now is if I have a 10 foot tall device and a 20 foot
tall device made the same will the taller one have more power available like a 10 foot dam verses a 20 foot dam of water for power.

Anybody got a bead on that concept?

There have been some other buoyancy devices around in the last few years but
I could not understand the basics enough to believe in them.

Norman

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2015, 01:20:28 AM »
Looks nice!
Now you need automatic valves that is activated by the buoyant material. Only one problem; How do the buoyant material jump out of the upper reservoir and down in the lower reservoir so it can repeat the cycle?


Vidar

its at the top of the water, because its floating.
so you only have to move it a small amount, then you have available all of the energy of the mass as it falls back to the bottom.
some kind of pulley system could be generating energy with the mass of several floats, and some of that can be used to pick up the floats out of the water.

that can be automated easily.
have a wheel with hooks on it, that picks them up and transfers them to the pulley belt. then at the bottom, you have some sort of mechanism to reload them into the tube.

switches inside the tube can be activated by the floats to open and close the locks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2015, 01:20:28 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2015, 02:08:06 AM »
If we put the buoyant object beneath the rock, it will float like a dock
channels at the top and bottom can be used to move the rocks to and from the tube
to the loading areas where they enter and exit the pulleys.

assuming all objects are the same physical size::

    a 1 Ton rock displaces 3/4Ton of water
    the buoyant object (Styrofoam?) weighs 0.01 Ton, but also displaces 3/4 Ton of water
each object has an upwards force from 3/4 ton of water they are displacing (1 & 1/2 Tons of water!!)
so gravity is only affecting the (now) 1/4Ton rock and 20 lbs of Styrofoam which leaves 0.49 Tons for upwards force.

that's obviously too much buoyancy for a practical system, but if you were able to get it into the tube the rock will have no problem raising itself as high as you can build your tube....

Also, with the locks, the water pressure is not the full force of water above,
but only what is in the lowest lock

if the buoyant force and the total mass of rock and float are dissimilar enough only to make it slightly buoyant
the input energy can be minimized and easily compensated for by height of tube.

someone builds this..... may just win that prize  :-\





Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2015, 12:25:09 PM »
Energy input takes place 4 times::

1)  E = mgh1
2) E = mgh2
3) E = dgh3 (d is the displacement)
4) E = energy to control valves in the tube (unknown?)
    note that this valve energy will be a constant value based on water pressure and volume of the water system.
    This is completely separated from the energy value of the mass cycle. we change the mass and buoyancy, the valve control energy does not change.

Energy out:   E = mgh`

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2015, 12:25:09 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2015, 01:14:53 PM »
Sm0key2, could you detail your formula a little clearer and where each takes place.

ie m, I assume to be mass
h, I assume to be height
d ??? displacement

as I see it there are  6 work inputs

work 1. the object is inserted into the water displacing water and moved to the tube.
work 2. lowest valve is opened
work 3. object rises to valve 2 and valve 1 is closed
work 4. lowest valve is closed
work 5. upper valve is opend
work 6. object kicked off the water to do some work out

Offline fredenergie

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 03:10:48 PM »
    Hello everyone, I am from France, I offer my concepte, if you are interested in her by her and chat with me, thank you for the questions                                     http://overunity.com/15847/total-mouvement-autonome-france/msg454472/#new                     

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 03:10:48 PM »
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Offline tagor

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2015, 05:40:27 PM »
    Hello everyone, I am from France, I offer my concepte, if you are interested in her by her and chat with me, thank you for the questions                                     http://overunity.com/15847/total-mouvement-autonome-france/msg454472/#new                   

why are you spamming ?

Offline fredenergie

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 06:22:30 PM »
sorry no abituer the forum, how I can remove about thank you ???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 06:22:30 PM »
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Offline RomanEmpire

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2015, 07:49:08 PM »
someone builds this..... may just win that prize  :-\

And the winnwer is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGPEOlQ2_uA

I think this is very close to your drawings except for the ejection system of the spheres which occurs by the thrust of the other floating spheres, and for the system of reintegration of the sphere in the riser tube, which is covered by the acceleration in the fall . The balls seem to slow the fall as they pass through the square boxes, maybe there are magnets in the ball and in those boxes there are coils that capture the energy and slow down the fall

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 07:58:43 PM »
Just an idea:
Let there be plenty of buoyant objects in that tube. They cannot be so buoyant that they cannot submerge after a free fall from the top of the tube or reservoir. Imagine ice cubes.
A guide will guide them back into the tube in the moment they are submerged and still in motion. A torpedo shaped object will be good for reducing water resistance.
Now, let all the buoyant objects in the tube use their combined buoyancy to push one object at the time out of the tube. While that pushed object leaves the tube, it must fall down, submerge, be guided back into the tube. Now there is enough buoyant objects in the tube to push next one out of the tube.
The valves are in theory an effortless operation. At least one cannot take the energy they require to open and close into consideration. This energy requirement has nothing to do with the buoyant system.
We need only two valves because the tube must maintain the water column all the time.


I have not made my calculus on this one, but nature usually don't give a shit about what we believe or conclude. So what's left is to do the practical experiment.


This far, I am just confused.

EDIT: I did't notice the video link above when I posted this. It appears to be the same idea...  ;D

Vidar

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 07:58:43 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2015, 08:45:53 PM »
Another idea that is similar but don't need buoyancy:
Valved control the water level, and keeps the water to one side.
Displaced water is the working medium. Torque of the hub depends on the displaced water, not the weight of the spheres.
Looking forward to another sleepless night...because I cannot figure out at the moment why this wouldn't work "perpetual".
I will definitely work for a while, until water is leveled out - or something...



Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2015, 09:42:43 PM »
I have had a hard working week, very tired, but I got it now; When the sphere enter the water at the bottom, water level rise at the bottom.
When the sphere exit the water on top, water level descent at the top.
As the cycle continue, the water level will finally equalize...


So, no, it will not be OU. :-\

Offline tagor

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2015, 07:02:06 AM »
sorry no abituer the forum, how I can remove about thank you ???

ask help to the admin of this forum

Offline fredenergie

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2015, 10:31:31 AM »
ask help to the admin of this forum
  ok thank you Tagor

 

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