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Author Topic: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?  (Read 21034 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« on: December 28, 2009, 11:29:09 PM »
Hi,

I have made a drawing of an idea I had the other day. If it was possible to shield water in the right part of a container so it can be air in the left side, how would a buoyancy wheel act then?

I know there is harder to push ball E into the water than it is for ball A, due to the difference in pressure. But will the buoyancy of the balls F, G and H (Or more if more balls was available) be enough to force ball E (minus force of ball A) into the water?

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 11:46:09 PM »
B, C, D, E will 'resist' going into the water, this falls under the path of least resistance law which will always center itself out and settles into a zero kinetic potential.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 12:31:07 AM »
If you really wanted a wheel that runs on gravity then you must also understand that Gravity is not a constant around the world, different places have different gravitational influences.

if you built a rather large ordinary wheel that borders the blue gravity area vs. a heavy gravity environment in red then one side of that wheel will be heavier than the other side causing the wheel to perpetually rotate to the path of least resistance.

on the gravity map, in the blue areas objects fall slower than objects dropped in the red area.

32ft per sec squared only counts in the area it was calculated from, it does not hold true entirely around the world, there is a spot in the Indian ocean that has the least over all ratio of gravitational influence.

after you have fumbled with this concept in your head then tell me why it won't work as planned, 'remember the path of least resistance law'

Jerry 8)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 12:31:07 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 12:49:52 AM »
Only position E will be the counter energy with an average energy of the balls Dmax x cos45o x DepthE-A

If the spheric balls was 1 litre. The maximum area is 250 cm^2. If DeltaE-A = 1m, the maximum counterforce is approx 250N when ball E is half way in. The average force is 250N x cos45 = 177N for the whole ball to enter the water. The distance Dmax it must travel is 0,178m to be totally in the water. The total energy is then 177N x 0,178m = 31,5.

Then the three other balls F, G, H are travelling the same distance, but ball F and H are at average 45 degrees angle. What is the energy they provide?
If ball F and H are raising each approx: 0,178m x cos45 = 0,125m
In sum this is equivalent to 10N (About 1 litre) in 0,25m.
Ball G is raising approx 0,178m. The weight is 10N.
The total buoyancy energy is then (0,25m x 10N) + (0,178m x 10N) = 4,3

Ball E wins with 31,5 - 4,3 = 27,2 (something)

If we store that exsess energy in a fast spinning metal disc (Like the ones in some toys), should that energy be enough to keep the wheel to rotate in the opposite direction than I intended? ...so the balls at position F, then G, then H could provide energy each time they left position E and into the air?

I guess I'll not get a nice sleep tonight...too much thinking :)

Any thoughts @onthecuttingedge2005?

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 01:18:29 AM »
lets say you weigh 200 pounds, take one soccer ball and one pool, the object of this mission, try to get the soccer ball down to the 12 foot level and touch the bottom of the pool.

don't hold your chin out to far or the ball might smack you a good one!

Sincerely
Jerry ;)

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 01:18:29 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 01:35:39 AM »
I see your point. One h... of a black eye - but what if the wheel are turning clockwise. Ball at position E is going OUT of the water because the buoyancy of the other balls are not enough to keep it back. The question is also if the remaining balls in the water require as much energy to virtually move the 1 litre water upwards 1m....hmmmmm

I'll go to bed now....

Vidar

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 02:13:40 AM »
when it comes to gravity, you have to convert it, not use it directly.

interrupt it to be more precise.

there can be no work unless you convert it from one form to another. this is another law, the conversion of potential to kinetic energy requires some input energy.

always remember, 'all' energy is inherited as lazy, it doesn't like to do work! you have to force it to work!

think of a really lazy slave, I mean really lazy as lazy of a slave as possible, this would be your driver an electron.

Jerry

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 02:13:40 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 12:19:50 PM »
"Lazy energy" LOL ;D. Yes, you're right. Most energy is only potential - not willing to change without a push. I was however hoping that I could convert from potential to kinetic energy with my idea. I guess I've to build it. Two containers of water side by side with very flexible membranes towards each other where the balls are going in between - lubricated with some silicone oil or something. Don't hold your breath :)

Vidar

Offline Silver

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 06:45:08 PM »
This is my stupid idea for bouyancy wheel :)
I don't think it will works but was fun to think about it :)

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 06:45:08 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 12:15:45 AM »
This is my stupid idea for bouyancy wheel :)
I don't think it will works but was fun to think about it :)
I liked it! Nice drawing too. This made me think of another and similar idea:

The upper an lower roller is making sure the flexible rubber tube is keeping the air on the right side. The shape of the tube I believe is critical in order to make bouyancy more efficient - but in the end I have a bad feeling it will not work...
This drawing is done in paint with a small red unusable button-mouse - hence the result...

Well, look away from friction - I am only interested in if the bouyancy effect will make the big wheel spin and accelerate if no friction is present.

Vidar

Offline Silver

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 01:18:55 PM »

Funny picture :)

Well, cause the movement happens in liquid, if it works, it will be a low rpm system.
We must count the energy needed to pump the air down and the work it can do


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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 01:18:55 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 02:32:47 PM »
Many "what ifs" here, but what if the tube around the wheel is pumped up and have an even shape - except the tube is compressed at the botton due to the higher water pressure. If the tube is pumped up, and the rollers are preventing the air from evenly spread on both sides, shouldn't the tension in the tube surface at the top be greater than in the bottom? This will in that case force the upper roller to move away from the tube. The lower roller is helped by the water pressure to compress the tube and release some of the tension down there, so the roller at the bottom is forced clockwise with less force.

Then if both rollers are fixed, the wheel is forced to turn. As no water is pushed up or nown - generally no mass is moved anywhere - the only force left is the difference betwen the tension in the blown up tube between the top and the bottom.

In the top you will then have a continously repelling system that is greater than the one in the bottom. The bigger the wheel is, the greater this difference will be. The wheel is then turning clockwise.

In an opposite case, the tube can be filled with liquid and let the whole wheel work in air, so there is more pressure at the lower roller than the upper - and the wheel will turn counter clockwise.

as bad drawing as the last one LOL ;D, but I think you get the idea.

What do you think?

Vidar

Offline Silver

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 04:40:13 PM »
Well, i think the buoyancy force will affect the whole setup not only the tube and so,  no rotating force will appear. Thats why my idea has "near independent" air balloons.

Offline norman6538

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2015, 03:44:21 PM »
Take a look at this idea for a bouyancy machine.


All you have do to is.
1. push the object down into the tub
2. switch the valves.

surely the work in should be less than the work out.

and all the lift is free.

it works because the water is locked into the tube similar to the locks
in canals that lift ships rather than dropping down the tube and water
is not liftted except for the little bit in the tub.
1. with valves closed push down into tub of water and position under the tube.
2. open bottom valve with upper valve closed.
3. when above the bottom valve and at the top valve close it and open top valve.
 and then it pops up to the top.

then you have its weight that can do work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFXsoqbfrk

Norman

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Buoyancy/gravity wheel - another approach?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2015, 07:59:15 PM »
Take a look at this idea for a bouyancy machine.


All you have do to is.
1. push the object down into the tub
2. switch the valves.

surely the work in should be less than the work out.

and all the lift is free.

it works because the water is locked into the tube similar to the locks
in canals that lift ships rather than dropping down the tube and water
is not liftted except for the little bit in the tub.
1. with valves closed push down into tub of water and position under the tube.
2. open bottom valve with upper valve closed.
3. when above the bottom valve and at the top valve close it and open top valve.
 and then it pops up to the top.

then you have its weight that can do work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFXsoqbfrk

Norman
Looks nice!
Now you need automatic valves that is activated by the buoyant material. Only one problem; How do the buoyant material jump out of the upper reservoir and down in the lower reservoir so it can repeat the cycle?


Vidar

 

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