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Author Topic: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo  (Read 29179 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2009, 05:42:58 PM »
Well if the chilling effects do exist, it can take away some of that heat they claim to be producing.
It seems to me that the eorbo is way off from what they have had everyone believe they had.
Its not free at all, and they say so. At peswiki a replicator has a repl. going and it does work, but it is far from free.
And a yt vid of the release of a magnet from a toroid coil when powered releases shows the effect quite well.
But man it isnt what I expected at all from them.

Mags

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2009, 05:42:58 PM »

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2009, 06:55:33 PM »
The spinning magnets do not effect the IR gun.

Again, the measured temperatures went *BELOW* ambient temperature. So it is not due to circulating air.

Last night I completed the control experiments.


I am now convinced this is a real cooling effect. I'm now convinced it is possible to capture excess energy from magnetic materials. It seems that it might have something to do with the state of the magnetic material. Beyond that I have no idea. It could be something as simple as the way the domains are structured. Magnetic domains do not form pretty perfect little symmetrical formations. Another option is the effect could be from an unknown source of energy.

Over time the effect fades. So anyone working on the eOrbo replications are highly encouraged to measure temperatures from the start.

All of the details are on video. So I've replicated it many times. By last night the effect was totally gone, and last night, after trying to replicate it I learned that there is no way to get the temperature to drop like that. In fact, it increases above ambient, not below.

The effect is *not* due to air circulation. In the video the temperature dropped like a rock as soon as the dremel was turned on. And the part of the video not shown is where I disconnect all of the clip leads and the temperature begins to increase to the normal ambient temperature. So it is very clear to me in that particular case the wire connections were somehow aiding the effect.

What is interesting is that this effect fades with usage. I have seen this effect countless times in peizos & diodes. The Steorn eOrbo has shown the same effect. Look how often they have to replace the eOrbos. I don't buy the story of the relays failing that often. Even the steorn guy said he's puzzled. Also, I question that the 1st Steorn demo years ago had anything to do with the bearings. This effect could be due to an unknown source of energy, that varies from location to location, or that varies over time, or varies with usage. What if the first Orbo machine ran just perfect at the Steorn building, but after running it for awhile at the demo location it failed.

And lets consider the major issue with cold fusion. Anyone who's seen the recent 60 Minutes TV show interview saw that cold fusion was verified by an anonymous scientist, but the issue they are having is ... once again "stability!"  And so far they have been unable to solve the cold fusion stability issue.

And then there's the incident that occurred years ago during the start of my magnetic research where I was doing an experiment to try to capture ambient thermal energy via a magnetic core. I was using the computer parallel port via software to control the pulse timing. There input source was a capacitor, and the output went into charging capacitors. So the total input energy & output energy could be calculated. And yes, I was well aware of dielectric absorption. Time after time it would not work. One morning, without changing anything, the first thing I did was run the software, and to my surprise the charging capacitors charged far above the cop>1 point. And what was weird is that the magnetic core made the strangest sound like I've never heard before, like a deep breathing sound. I was never able to replicate that.

Oh yes, and there's my MCE (magnetocaloric effect) experiments, which also showed the same effect in that the magnetic core was highly unstable in terms of showing MCE at room temperatures. Time after time I saw how the MCE would show up during the first few measurements, but would fade over time. This was seen in various different types of magnetic materials. The mystery was never solved.

So there is something very strange going on.


I'm still wowed by this significant cooling effect. After watching the full video time after time it's amazing. Actually the lowest temperature of the toroid / magnets went was 64.6°F. Later on in the video I pick up the IR gun and point it at various locations near the toroid & magnet. It shows the ambient temperature (away from the dremel) was 67.2°F to 67.8°F. And the exterior part of the dremel is 83.4°F. Anything near the dremel is hotter. The magnets are connected to the dremel, and so they have to counteract that heat. And the spinning magnets affect the air around it, and the toroid is underneath the magnets. So if there was no cooling effect, the toroid & magnet temperatures would be higher than ambient temperature, but they were not. They were 64.6°F or less. I say "less" because a lot of what the IR gun was pointing at was the wooden desk, so the IR gun takes the average temperature in it's view. So who knows just how cold the toroid / magnets got. Prior to taking the temperature measurements I kept filling an obviously cold breeze far colder than before.

I'll try my best to replicate this, but if the excess energy is related to the excess energy found in piezos and diodes, then it could take anywhere from a day to 3 weeks for the magnets / toroid to recover.

It sure will be nice when someone discovers how to quickly reset this effect or whatever it will be called, rather than having to wait.  :)


Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2009, 07:07:15 PM »
I found out the rpm in the video is either 8600 rpm

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2009, 07:07:15 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2009, 07:11:00 PM »
It's 8600 rpm. There are 4 magnets, and you can see all 4 pulses on the scope per cycle. The scope was on 2ms / div, and all four pulses takes ~ 3.5 divisions. That comes to 143 Hz, which equals 8600 rpm.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2009, 08:01:23 PM »
Also something else I learned last night was the connection to the dual power supply, which was turned off during the video footage, shorts nearly all of the AC pulses from the rotating magnets. The DMM in diode mode shows 0.569V, both ways. The DMM wires were reversed and it still shows 0.569V. Also the dual power supply is 600 ohms, either polarity.

When the magnets are spinning, the scope shows the AC voltage across the dual power supply (while it's off and connected to one of the toroids winginds) is about 1/100th as the other toroids windings. So the dual power supply is not really shorting the entire core, and in fact has a small effect on the overall core.

Outline: So the toroid has one large winding, ~ 200 ohms, and is split in two. The dual power supply is one half, and the 0.1uF * scope are the other other half. The signal across the dual power supply is almost zero, while the signal across the other winding (0.1uF) is ~ 10 to 16 V pp (actually I have not measured it precisely yet).


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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2009, 08:01:23 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2009, 08:38:56 PM »
Just a couple of idiotic questions . How does one chose suitable toroids for this device? How do you work out the number of turns. This is not as simple as it sounds. The object as I understand it is to saturate the core. Just suppose that the core saturates at 100 amp turns.  and suppose that 100 turns of a given gauge of wire has a resistance of 1ohm. to find the necessary input voltage to give 1 amp , V+IR so, 1volt . Now we rewind it with wire twice as long . so now the resistance is 2 ohms , and we ave 200 turns. we still use a 1volt supply . But now the current is , I =V/R = 1/2 amp.  But now we have a problem. In the first example , power =I XV = 1 watt. In example 2 , power = IxV =1x1/2 = 0.5 watts . So now we are saturating the core with half the power. If we double the wire length again we use one quarter the power. What is going on here please?

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2009, 09:51:07 PM »
I just did another experiment. A new toroid and magnets were used, and the entire experiment was moved to a different location, about 50 feet away in a different room.

After starting the dremel motor the toroid / magnet temperature decreased 2.1°F in ~ a minute, according to the IR gun, and stayed there for only a few minutes where the toroid / magnet temperature then began to slowly increase in a matter of a few minutes.

So the temperature drop was short lived in this experiment, which brings up a possible issue for people who do not have fast reacting temperature meters. For this experiment you need something that reacts in a matter of seconds. What is meant by react is how long it takes the probe / device change by an appreciable percentage. Of course if you place a hot iron on the probe it's going to increase almost instantly, but that's not have fast it reacts by a certain percentage. The hot iron may be 100°F hotter, and it might take only 1 second for the meter to show a 1°F, but it could take 5 minutes to show a 50% temperature change. So if the toroid temperature decreases by 2°F, then it would take such a meter 5 minutes to show a 1°F change.

Test your temperature meter to see how long it takes to change by say 80%. You could for instance take the temperature meter outside and time how long it takes to settle down to the new temperature.

Anyhow, I don't know why this run did not last that long. The ambient temperature was 62.8°F, which is colder than the first run shown in the video. Maybe there was not as much dark energy in this room.  ;)


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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2009, 09:51:07 PM »
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Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2009, 10:11:04 PM »
I just did another experiment. A new toroid and magnets were used, and the entire experiment was moved to a different location, about 50 feet away in a different room.

After starting the dremel motor the toroid / magnet temperature decreased 2.1°F in ~ a minute, according to the IR gun, and stayed there for only a few minutes where the toroid / magnet temperature then began to slowly increase in a matter of a few minutes.

So the temperature drop was short lived in this experiment, which brings up a possible issue for people who do not have fast reacting temperature meters. For this experiment you need something that reacts in a matter of seconds. What is meant by react is how long it takes the probe / device change by an appreciable percentage. Of course if you place a hot iron on the probe it's going to increase almost instantly, but that's not have fast it reacts by a certain percentage. The hot iron may be 100°F hotter, and it might take only 1 second for the meter to show a 1°F, but it could take 5 minutes to show a 50% temperature change. So if the toroid temperature decreases by 2°F, then it would take such a meter 5 minutes to show a 1°F change.

Test your temperature meter to see how long it takes to change by say 80%. You could for instance take the temperature meter outside and time how long it takes to settle down to the new temperature.

Anyhow, I don't know why this run did not last that long. The ambient temperature was 62.8°F, which is colder than the first run shown in the video. Maybe there was not as much dark energy in this room.  ;)

Temperature probes are nice but if you really want to get serious then also use thermal goggles with it. thermal goggles will show you every little heat leakage from every part visually.

Jerry

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2009, 10:36:24 PM »
A FLIR camera would be nice, but they're expensive.

Small 402 SMD thermistors react almost instantly. IR guns react in fast as well, less than a second.

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2009, 10:36:24 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2009, 10:38:57 PM »
BTW, now I am beginning to lean toward the magnets as being the cold source. This is one area I have not analyzed yet, so we'll see if it's the magnets or toroid. If it's the magnets, then you'll need either an IR gun (thermal gun) or a thermal camera since they're spinning. .. Well, if you quickly stop the machine, then maybe one could come up with a method of quickly placing a small thermistor on a magnet to get its temperature. That's better than nothing.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2009, 10:56:56 PM »

I just repeated another control experiment. I removed the toroid, and point the IR gun at the magnet, then turned on the dremel motor. The temperature never decreased, and in fact in about 5 seconds time the magnet temperature increased by 0.2°F.

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2009, 10:56:56 PM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2009, 11:30:49 PM »
Consider that this could be a case of electrostatic cooling from a charge accumulating on the spinning plastic holding the magnets due to air friction.

The electrostatic charge could also work its way into the speed control circuit and bleed charge off the trigger capacitor causing rpm's to drop.

If the dremel is of the double insulated type, a considerable electrostatic charge could accumulate.

The toroid needs to be "grounded"  to the scope or power supply for a source of charge (and some ambient heat) to be ripped from it by the charged rotating plastic.

A control study would be to replace the toroid with something mildly  conductive and approximately the same size that would not allow eddy current production from the spinning magnets. A chunk of carbon etc. Now try this with and without ground.

If you have an electrostatic meter handy bring it near the spinning dremel to see if charge is accumulating on the plastic causing the electrostatic cooling effect. This cooling effect is common around high voltage DC power supplies typically the electrostatic type.

I have often felt the cooling effect when playing with small electrostatic power supplies.

Best of Luck...V

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2009, 11:40:24 PM »
Nice theory, but if one does the calculations it would need millions of volts to decrease the temperature of this by 2.5°F. There's just zero chance that this is due to electrostatic cooling. Also I've done numerous control experiments that showed no cooling effect from the spinning magnets.

BTW, not that it matters any, but the toroid is grounded to the scope and dual power supply.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2009, 11:43:53 PM »
Forgot to mention that according to my meter the highest rpm during todays experiment was 9850 rpm's.

Just judging by ear, I would definitely say that the dremel went to much higher rpms yesterday, so it probably went over 10000 rpms yesterday.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2009, 12:03:49 AM »
Electrostatic cooling is well documented and does not take "millions of volts"

e.g.


LASER BEAM REFLECTOR SYSTEM
United States Patent 3703813
An electrically conductive laser beam reflector is cooled by a high voltage electrostatic field created between the reflector and a probe spaced from the surface of the reflector on the same side of the reflector as the impinging laser beam. The cooling effect by the electrostatic field is of essentially the same distribution as the heating effect of the laser beam thus eliminating different and varying temperatures gradients in the reflector and the resulting distortions in the beam.

 

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