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Author Topic: Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo  (Read 29176 times)

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2009, 08:48:11 PM »
The IR gun batteries are probably fine. It complains when they're low. I don't think that's the cause though.

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2009, 08:48:11 PM »

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2009, 08:53:05 PM »
BTW, here's a bit of good news. For the last ... oh 30 minutes it's been running without the IR gun, which was replaced with a dual indoor / outdoor thermometer probe. Placed the probe on the toroid. Prior to the test both indoor & outdoor temperatures agreed. Then fired up the dremel, and the toroid temperture has been about 0.2°F lower.  ;D   That's something at least. It does not wow me like the first experiment where the toroid temperature dropped about 3°F below ambient, or at least that's what the IR gun said.

What's interesting is that over time (usage) the cooling effect has slowly gone down. The first experiment wowed me. The 2nd experiment was very impressive, but didn't wow me. The 3rd experiment is ... limping; i.e., very small cooling effect. So far this is a pattern, unless I can figure out a way to make it work well all the time.


Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2009, 08:57:04 PM »
Actually, further details is that the toroid temperature during this run, which has been going for ~~ 1/2 hour, started about 1°F above ambient, and it  s l o w l y  closed the gap. Just a few minutes ago it was 0.2°F *below* ambient, but now it's 0.4°F below ambient.  ;D

So for the moment it's doing better. ... Just checked it again, and it's now 0.6°F below ambient!!

Still inconclusive, as it all needs to be checked over & over again, and lots of calibration & control tests are needed, but it's fun stuff.  :)

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2009, 08:57:04 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2009, 10:41:56 PM »
It was interesting watch this over time. It just seems like the effect slowly dies out over time, and builds up when resting. During this run the instrument said the toroid went up to 0.6°F below ambient temperature, which it maintained for awhile, and then began to slowly decline to it eventually went settled near ambient.

So I'll let it rest for a day.

Offline k4zep

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2009, 10:56:27 PM »
It was interesting watch this over time. It just seems like the effect slowly dies out over time, and builds up when resting. During this run the instrument said the toroid went up to 0.6°F below ambient temperature, which it maintained for awhile, and then began to slowly decline to it eventually went settled near ambient.

So I'll let it rest for a day.

Yes my friend, you gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them and know when to walk away!!!!!!!  Hey, try grounding one of those legs of the coil, the same ground the scope ground or ps ground was attached to?????

Later
Ben

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2009, 10:56:27 PM »
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Offline Craigy

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2009, 01:32:44 AM »
Yes my friend, you gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them and know when to walk away!!!!!!!  Hey, try grounding one of those legs of the coil, the same ground the scope ground or ps ground was attached to?????

Later
Ben

What about a control test? Replace toroid with something of same size / shape in same position and see if the cooling  reoccurs to object. I belive this is just local cooling from rotor but could be wrong..

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2009, 01:37:25 AM »
There was a thread started which indicated that AC applied to a piezoelectric conductor ( thermojunction ) may create a peltier seebeck like effect and cause cooling in one location and heating in another.

Is it possible that some other part of the circuit is heating up, and if so where?

It may be that the electric motor from the dremel or what-have-you, is interfering with the readout.

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2009, 01:37:25 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2009, 04:00:02 AM »
Maybe it is just the wind from the rotating dremel dropping the temperature ?

Please do a comparison without any electricity in the coils.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2009, 04:42:49 AM »
Am I wrong here or is this eorbo idea reflect Peter Lindemann's work?

Magluvin

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2009, 04:42:49 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2009, 04:45:08 AM »
It's more likely that the spinning field was inducing some current in the temperature gun. Those things are not usually shielded at all.
 

Offline MrWolf

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2009, 12:41:45 PM »
Hi,

I cannot build replication myself right now but here are some key points I would try out:

- use modified magnet-wheel as rotor for homopolar generator to harness output
- use magnet(s) behind toroid(s)
- use toroid(s) with iron powder core
- use PC as controller (wheel position to parallel port, toroid(s) state from parallel port), this would give rapid automated testing/optimization possibilities
- use V-track magnet arrangement and toroid(s) to overcome sticky-point
- harness heat energy from toroids using low temperature stirling engine (this is a bit mad but why not)

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2009, 12:41:45 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2009, 04:32:15 PM »

The spinning magnets do not effect the IR gun.

Again, the measured temperatures went *BELOW* ambient temperature. So it is not due to circulating air.

Last night I completed the control experiments.


I am now convinced this is a real cooling effect. I'm now convinced it is possible to capture excess energy from magnetic materials. It seems that it might have something to do with the state of the magnetic material. Beyond that I have no idea. It could be something as simple as the way the domains are structured. Magnetic domains do not form pretty perfect little symmetrical formations. Another option is the effect could be from an unknown source of energy.

Over time the effect fades. So anyone working on the eOrbo replications are highly encouraged to measure temperatures from the start.

All of the details are on video. So I've replicated it many times. By last night the effect was totally gone, and last night, after trying to replicate it I learned that there is no way to get the temperature to drop like that. In fact, it increases above ambient, not below.

The effect is *not* due to air circulation. In the video the temperature dropped like a rock as soon as the dremel was turned on. And the part of the video not shown is where I disconnect all of the clip leads and the temperature begins to increase to the normal ambient temperature. So it is very clear to me in that particular case the wire connections were somehow aiding the effect.

What is interesting is that this effect fades with usage. I have seen this effect countless times in peizos & diodes. The Steorn eOrbo has shown the same effect. Look how often they have to replace the eOrbos. I don't buy the story of the relays failing that often. Even the steorn guy said he's puzzled. Also, I question that the 1st Steorn demo years ago had anything to do with the bearings. This effect could be due to an unknown source of energy, that varies from location to location, or that varies over time, or varies with usage. What if the first Orbo machine ran just perfect at the Steorn building, but after running it for awhile at the demo location it failed.

And lets consider the major issue with cold fusion. Anyone who's seen the recent 60 Minutes TV show interview saw that cold fusion was verified by an anonymous scientist, but the issue they are having is ... once again "stability!"  And so far they have been unable to solve the cold fusion stability issue.

And then there's the incident that occurred years ago during the start of my magnetic research where I was doing an experiment to try to capture ambient thermal energy via a magnetic core. I was using the computer parallel port via software to control the pulse timing. There input source was a capacitor, and the output went into charging capacitors. So the total input energy & output energy could be calculated. And yes, I was well aware of dielectric absorption. Time after time it would not work. One morning, without changing anything, the first thing I did was run the software, and to my surprise the charging capacitors charged far above the cop>1 point. And what was weird is that the magnetic core made the strangest sound like I've never heard before, like a deep breathing sound. I was never able to replicate that.

Oh yes, and there's my MCE (magnetocaloric effect) experiments, which also showed the same effect in that the magnetic core was highly unstable in terms of showing MCE at room temperatures. Time after time I saw how the MCE would show up during the first few measurements, but would fade over time. This was seen in various different types of magnetic materials. The mystery was never solved.

So there is something very strange going on.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 04:54:10 PM by PaulLowrance »

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2009, 05:15:44 PM »
What about a control test? Replace toroid with something of same size / shape in same position and see if the cooling  reoccurs to object.

I did that last night. The effect did not come back. Also last night I completely removed (not replaced) the magnets to realign them because they kept getting way of out alignment with usage. Anyhow, I did not place enough tape around them, only one layer, and one of the magnets went shooting out of like a bullet, lol. So early this morning I had a chance to take a look at all of the NdFeB magnets with magnetic viewing film, and they appear to be normal, at least on a macro scale. Today I'll try to replace the magnets.

So the toroid was replaced with a different one, but somethings very different because the separation distance between magnets and toroid is a lot higher. So I'll have to look at the video again to see if there was a spacer under the toroid.

Since the setup was all apart, I had a chance to run the dremel by itself, and it does vary by itself. That's not to say all of the varying rpm is due to the dremel.



I belive this is just local cooling from rotor but could be wrong..

I can now say for certain that is incorrect.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2009, 05:26:16 PM »
It would be great to get rid of my power consuming A/C system in my house and get me a couple dremels, some mags and a couple toroid cores and chill.  =]  My car can use one also. And a couple cordless for my shoes. AHHH


Mags

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Tech discussion how eOrbo works
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2009, 05:33:33 PM »
Also I cannot say for certain if at least some or most of the chilling effect is from magnets. When analyzing the video, it's clear that the IR gun was pointing at both the magnets and toroid, but mostly the toroid.

 

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