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Author Topic: MAGNET SHIELDING  (Read 52657 times)

Offline 24hosting

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MAGNET SHIELDING
« on: December 15, 2009, 05:12:14 PM »
I came upon magnet shielding. Has any one tried this ?. I am going to ,but if someone has some first hand knowledge about how ..or if this works with a magnet motor I would appreciate the feed back. Thanks. 24hosting.

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MAGNET SHIELDING
« on: December 15, 2009, 05:12:14 PM »

Offline Staffman

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 05:52:34 PM »
I know of nothing that will act as magnetic shielding. There are two types of materials that interact with magnetic fields. Ferro materials, iron etc... and Diamagnetic materials like copper and aluminum. In a magnet motor, if iron is used, the magnets get strongly attracted to the iron. If copper is used, there is a slight repulsion and as the magnet moves faster the repulsion (opposing the movement) gets stronger. So using either of the two types of magnetic materials actually hinder the effect you want to achieve. Youtube has a few video's showing failed attempts. Here's one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvz2-5OwK6w&feature=video_response

Edit: Well you could say that putting a magnet inside an iron enclosure would do it but to get the magnetic field back you would have to pull the magnet out of the enclosure and that takes work.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 06:13:35 PM »
The ferromagnetic material can divert the return path of the magnetic field.  The ferro material must have both a north and a south pole attached to it in order for it to divert the return path.  If only one pole is attached to it, then the field will pass through or be pushed around the ferro material.

Here are a few of my videos showing how shielding works if properly done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_81SxByRNR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJFgMB5ezsE


The ferro material is acting as a wire for the flux to travel through.  The interesting thing about using this principal is the flux can now be viewed as an electrical current that can be confined and should be able to be exploited.  Here is an excellent thread showing how to exploit this phenomenon by confining the magnetic field with a ferro material and using an outside circuit to provide torque on this confined field without any BEMF, http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8461.0

Trying to use it as a shield is a setup for failure unless you are trying to protect parts of a device from the influence of the magnetic field, such as hard drives.  IMO, it has a huge potential in magnetic field confinement along with an external electrical current as shown in the link of the above thread.

GB

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 06:13:35 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 11:26:52 AM »
I found something interesting with ferrofluid. When a magnet is covered by this ferrofluid, averything none magnetic materials is repelled away from the magnet as long the object is inside the fluid. The virtual mass of the ferrofluid close to a magnet is so high that everything will be pushed away inside the fluid. So there you have a very powerful diamagnetism involved - virtually speaking.

So what if you put a solid magnetic material, which have the same mass and magnetic properties as ferrofluid, inside the ferrofluid, and experiment with different positions just to see if you'll find a way to force this magnetic piece in one direction, or in circular motion, by finding a balance between its buoyancy in the ferrofluid and the magnetic attraction to the magnet. This balance between attraction and buoyancy I believe is some kind of magnetic shield that comes into work instantly as the magnetic piece is "entering" the ferrofluid. Maybe this is a way to "trick" the force on the magnetic piece to make one-direction force?

Vidar

Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 03:01:34 AM »
Well, everyone here knows that magnetic shielding is the key to perpetual motion. How are the researchs in this field?

When will the world know a magnet that attracts steel balls only at one of its sides, and not at the other side? When humanity will discover the "unidirectional attraction" magnet?

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 03:01:34 AM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 03:13:32 AM »
Hmm... Who's affraid of magnetic shielding?

Offline Gwandau

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 04:07:18 AM »
Hi Rapadura,

Creating a magnet that attracts steel balls only at one of its poles, and not at the other side, is easily done.

The best way of shielding a magnetic field, and in this case one of the poles, is by placing the magnet in a
multilayered soft iron container, and only exposing one pole surface of the magnet.

This multilayer system of soft iron sheets only need to be separated from each other by a nonconducting material,
like plastic or epoxy. This shield system is used by scientists when experiments are needed to be performed under
conditions unaffected by any magnetic field, including Earths magnetic field.

A five layer of separate soft iron sheets shields from exposure of Earths magnetic field to a degree of 1/1500.

Diamagnetic materials would seem to be a nice solution to shield magnetism, but it is not that effective, sorry to say.

Until recently the world only knew of one really strong diamagnetic material, namely Bismuth, which is by far
the strongest naturally existing diamagnetic material.

The strange and syntetically manufactured material pyrolytic graphite is many times more diamagnetic than bismuth.

My personal experiments with these materials have been fun and interesting, but also a bit dissapointing.

Both bismuth and pyrolytic graphite repels magnetic fields to such an extent that you can make them levitate upon
a strong Neodymium magnet, but they are also transparent to a magnetic field, and does not work as an effective shield.

But as I told you above, a separated multilayer of thin soft iron sheets is excellent shielding material,
you see the effect is somewhat like short circuiting the magnetic field geometry by encapsulating it behind these layers.

Try it yourselves, it is an easy performed experiment. Make two five layer cakes of thin soft iron sheets separated by electrical insulating tape,
and place one Neodymium magnet behind each of the cakes, opposite poles down.  Now let the magnets meet behind their shields.
Almost all detectable attraction between the two strong Neodymium magnets is gone!
But without the insulating tape between the iron layers, you would have had some real problems getting the magnets apart.

I am absolutely convinced it is fully possible to construct a repelling type magnetic motor, by using this multilayer knowledge
in combination with the use of bismuth and pyrolytic graphite in shaping the field geometry desired for a repellant torque system,
as used for example in the Perendev concept.

As I said in an earlier post, lets do it, let's solve the magnet riddle, it's the cleanest energy there is,
and additionally it will free humanity from the grip of authority.

Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 04:07:18 AM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 04:44:58 AM »
Wow! I'm happy to read here that there are so many ways to shield a magnet!

Well, if it is really possible to make a magnet only attract a steel ball coming from one side, not from the other side, we have infinite possibilities.

Look the (ugly) GIF animation I did bellow:

Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 01:32:09 PM »
So, is my idea correct?

If we had a magnet that attracts steel balls only from one side, couldn't we make a pepetual motion device easily?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 01:32:09 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2010, 08:44:50 PM »
Quote from: Rapadura link=topic=8472.msg236847#msg236847 A=1270726329
So, is my idea correct?

If we had a magnet that attracts steel balls only from one side, couldn't we make a pepetual motion device easily?
A magnetic shield does not shield one pole. It only differ the poles position and focus the magnetic flux within the shield material. The part of the shield that is closest to the other pole is the opposite pole. Because the magnetic field must be a closed loop, you cannot ignore one pole that easy. If it was possible to shield one pole completely, the other pole would not have any other pole to go to, and then the magnetic field would dissappear and not attracting anything. In the .GIF example above the steel ball will not pass by. It will be attracted from both sides equally - at least the total energy (force x distance) will be equal on both sides but with opposite function.

Magnetic shielding, as we know it, is NOT the solution to perpetual motion. It's easy to believe so, but there are allways other aspects that you don't think of that will come in and ruin the whole project.

Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 10:26:17 PM »
In the .GIF example above the steel ball will not pass by. It will be attracted from both sides equally

Thanks for clarifying this. So, we still in our search for our magnet with "unidirectional magnetic attraction".

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2010, 10:26:17 PM »
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Offline Gwandau

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2010, 11:20:25 PM »
Low-Q,

You are perfectly right in that Rapaduras idea will fail in its present configuration.

But I´m afraid your understanding of my shielding concept is flawed by a preconception.

The type of shielding exemplified incorporates a fully closed loop, its all about the reshaping of the  magnetic geometry,
leading the field into a current-like propagation through the ferrous multilayer.

This technology of altering a magnetic field by bending it into a constricted path is common orthodox scientific knowledge.

The trick here is not really shielding off one of the poles from the other, but instead by leading this field into a narrow path hidden behind the shielding properties.
And by only exposing one pole end area of the magnet to the surrounding, you still have a complete field interaction between north and south poles, but this north-south interaction is executed inside the shielded volume.

This way we have just confined the magnetic field to a more narrow path, and the exposed pole is still actively relating to the other pole,
we have just altered the geometry of the field structure, so that the electromagnetic visibility of one pole outside the shielding circuit is inhibited.

Additionally the use of bismuth or pyrolytic graphite is essential in the transition from the shielded path to the exposed pole area.

An example of this technology in action is The Wang Shum Ho prototype 5kW electricity generator which is reportedly powered by permanent magnets and claimed to be close to production. The team is seeking a marketing partner and offers a working prototype for viewing by financial backers.
Magnetic Shielding is used to create N pole Only magnets in this creation of Wang Shum Ho.

So on the contrary to your conviction, I believe shielding technology is the only way, all other ways are resulting in an even disposition of field vectors, resulting in zero output.

Gwandau
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 12:12:14 AM by Gwandau »

Offline DeepCut

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 12:57:41 AM »
I came upon magnet shielding. Has any one tried this ?. I am going to ,but if someone has some first hand knowledge about how ..or if this works with a magnet motor I would appreciate the feed back. Thanks. 24hosting.

One thing used commonly for magnetic shielding is Mu-Metal :

http://mumetal.co.uk/

It doesn't shield but is very good at folding the magnetic field within it's own confines.

The only other way, that i know of, is to strongly divert the magnetic field using ferrites and this isn't shielding either but more like re-routing.

The LaFonte Group has some interesting videos on re-routing the magnetic field :

http://www.youtube.com/user/LaFontegroup


Hope this helps,

Gary.


Offline Rapadura

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 03:14:03 AM »
I hope people continue to pay attention to this subject. Magnetic shielding can be the solution to the search for an unidirectional attraction magnet.

Gwandau's statement that by exposing only the end area of one pole of the magnet to the surrounding, and shielding the rest of the magnet ("short circuiting" the path of the magnetic lines) we can attract a steel ball only from one side makes me have hope that perpetual motion is possible.

The day we can make a steel ball be attracted by a magnet when it is approaching the magnet, and not be attracted by the same magnet when it is going away from the magnet, we will have perpetual motion.

Offline Gwandau

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Re: MAGNET SHIELDING
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 03:35:04 AM »
Gary,

yes, MU-metal is exactly what I am referring to, but you see, MU-metal is
just a multilayered system om ferrous material, preferrably simply soft iron.

It is nothing special or mysterious about this concept, so I am a little
surprised I am getting met with sceptisism by some in this forum regarding
the possibilities to shield a magnet field in any desired way.

My own experiments shows it is rather easy to create a simple one pole
field appearance with a cylindrical Neodymium magnet.

MU-metal does shield, it is exactly what it does by diverting the magnetic field
and re-routing in a desired direction.

The result is that when checking the shielded surface with a Gauss-meter,
it does not register anything, which is the very concept of a magnetic shield.

Thus I don´t care if one calls it re-routing or shielding since the result is exactly the same.

Additionally I would recommend you all to do practical experimenting to a greater extent
and not pay too much attention to what everybody else is saying, especially when somebody
says it won't work.



Low-Q,

your answer was unfortunately dispiriting Rapaduras ideas, since you almost made him believe what you wrote,
which obviously is based on something you have read.

If you have been experimenting with this technique yourself, you would have known that magnetic
multilayer shielding is a very effective and simple way to shape the field structure in any desired way.



Rapadura,

don´t give up that easily just because somebody contradicts you. Experiment. Get your own information.

Magnetic shielding is an art that incorporates a lot of different factors due to the complexity
of the electromagnetic geometry around a magnet.

Just by shielding one pole of the magnet in your example, the ball will not pass the magnet.

You are still confronted with the fact that the same attractive force that creates the movement
of the ball, also is responsible for the force that stops the ball and evens out the equation.

This setback to your concept has nothing to do with any inability to shield a magnetic field,
it is more a question how to harness the possibilities given by magnetic shielding.

Personally I believe that a magnetic motor using the attractive forces of the magnetic field
are facing a great deal more complications than a magnet motor driven by the repellant forces.

If you discarded the steel ball and instead used a shielded magnet in combination with a repelling concept,
I am sure you would get torque.

My advice to you is to try to assimilate the way a magnetic field relates to ferrous and magnetic
surroundings by doing simple practical experiments.

This way you will contribute with first hand experience and thus add to our knowledge.


And to all of you reading this,

I am not here to argue about theoretical possibilities, that is not my intent by becoming a member,
the reason I am here is to share my own practical experience and hopefully get valid self experienced
information based on empiric experiments back.

To have a theory is great, but it is just a theory until it is tested.

Don´t listen too much to others, test it yourself.  Magnetic experiments are booth cheap and fun!

Gwandau



 

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